Ty2dvd [Archive] - DealDatabase Forum - Deals, Freebies, and TiVo & DirecTivo Hacking

BD38

03-30-2002, 03:29 AM

It's possible to go from vsplit streams directly to DVD without transcoding.

While jdiner was doing all the hard work, I was looking into a way to get the streams onto DVD without transcoding. I didn't want to add another time-consuming step and most importantly, reduce the quality of the video. It can be done and rather easily with one major problem for some people.

All of this information I gathered from the forums at doom9.org where they were trying to put the multi-disk SVCD set of LOTR onto one DVD. I put my first movie, Delta Force One(it was the only one that would work at that point), onto a dvd-rw and forced myself to sit thru it expecting something bad to happen. It was perfect - sound, video, even aspect ratio.

The short version:

1. Use DVDPatcher to change the video header to 720x480.
2. Import assests into Maestro, save your project and close Maestro.
3. Use DVDPatcher to change the video header back to 480x480.
4. Open Maestro and your recently saved project

The long and boring version:

What you'll need -

Good audio and video streams from vsplit:
Just because they look good in a software player doesn't mean they'll be accepted by the DVD authoring app. With the recent advances in vsplit(thank you Jdiner!) this has become less of a problem.

DVDMaestro:
The authoring app. This could be a problem for some. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be another alternative to this. I've tried quite a few and Maestro seems to be it. If anybody know differently....

DVDPatcher:
Get it from: http://kickme.to/dvdpatcher
This is what allows the non-DVD compliant video stream to be accepted by Maestro.

Soft Encode or other AC3 encoder(possibly optional):
The NTSC DVD-Video spec does not allow mpeg audio as the primary stream and some authoring apps will not even import it. Luckily Maestro does allow it as a primary stream, although it gives a warning at compile time. There are two factors limiting the use of mpeg audio, your DVD player and the stream itself. Since mpeg audio as the primary stream isn't part of the DVD spec, some players just won't accept the DVD. Many will. Also if the mpeg audio stream varies in length too much from the video stream, you'll have synch issues. Converting the mpeg audio to AC3 audio solves all of these problems. Maestro has the ability with the "Create Sync Audio Track" function to ensure that the audio and video stays in sync. I converted one mpeg audio stream to AC3 that was five seconds longer than the video stream and it maintained perfect sync after 90 minutes.

How to do it:

Open your video file in DVDPatcher. In the Mpeg2 Info section you'll see it has a resolution of 480x480. This isn't good, but that's what DVDPatcher is for. Select the buttons in the Size section for 720x480. Also select 4:3 Aspect Ratio and First Header only. For Bitrate I've been using 15.0 Mbit lately, but I've tried them all. Haven't noticed any differences here. Select Patch Now and then Start. You'll see the changes. You can leave DVDPatcher open.

Start Maestro and import your video and audio assests. If you get an error message importing the video(usually "Temporal References in GOP#......") then you've got a bad video stream. If the video on the dtivo looks good and you extracted it properly then maybe jdiner would be interested in seeing it. Don't do anything else at this point except to save your project and close Maestro.

Use DVDPatcher to change the video back to 480x480. Open Maestro and your project that you just saved. That's it! Everything should work normally from this point on except the small preview window used for setting chapter points will be unusable and the right side of the RealView window will be garbage.

You should be able to get ~190 minutes of video onto a DVD depending, of course, on the program. Network programs seem to have an ABR of 3.5Mbps and movies anywhere from 2.2Mbps(Delta Force) to 3.5Mbps(Moulin Rouge).

If anybody has corrections or suggestions to improve the process or knows of a different authoring app that will work, lets hear it. Have Fun!

lcreech

03-30-2002, 11:14 PM

The link above doesn't seem to be any good.

BD38

03-31-2002, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by lcreech
The link above doesn't seem to be any good.

Here's the latest version:

lazerexp

03-31-2002, 01:57 AM

Any suggestions on were to find Maestro?

wolkowh

03-31-2002, 04:35 AM

Major props on this.
I've been working in SpruceUp and trying the convert to trick thing, but the program would crash. However, if you:

1. Convert the header to 720
2. Import it then *let it crash*
3. Convert back to 480
4. Reopen the m2v file

it works like a charm

You can find a demo of Spruce at:

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/dvd_tools/spruceup.cfm

BD38

03-31-2002, 05:40 AM

wolkowh, nice job on finding a workaround for SpruceUp.

Maestro and the Cinemaster 2000 player needed for preview in Maestro are tough finds. This will allow a lot more people to go direct to DVD. I knew that if you created the .prv index files in Maestro first that you could use SpruceUp, but if you already had Maestro.....

wolkowh

03-31-2002, 12:05 PM

I have an updated How-To on the Sticky "Dtivo Video Extraction - Scritps and programs only" thread

This is sooo sooo major kool, by eliminating the transcode step, All you have to do now is extract, split, futz a little bit, and then author. I was able to make a 3 episode Babylon 5 DVD with multiple meuns and custom backgrounds for each title in little less than 45 min. Before this was a 3 overnight transcode session process.

This IS the Holy Grail!

Howard

wolkowh

03-31-2002, 07:01 PM

mrblack51 wrote on 03-31-2002 05:25 PM:
where in this process do you edit out the commecials from your video? i would presume its before D3 but after D2, correct? if that is the case, any suggestions on a good video editor?

Good question, not such a good answer.

You see, I am trying to avoid any muxing or modification of the video and audio streams so I am letting the entire stream be muxed by the authoring software

1. I am mostly doing pulls from premium channels so there are no commercials

2. Actually, I don't edit out the commercials, I just put chapter points at the place where you go into the commercial and one where you come out of commercial so you can just skip over the break. I guess I could modify the .ifo file so when the chapter ends it skips the commercial chapter and resumes at the fade in... hmmm let my try that tonite.

-----
Tried it, OK, This is neat.

If you don't mind some dead space on your DVD, what you can do is:

1. Put a chapter point at the beginning of a commercial, then one at the end of the commercial

2. Compile the Disc to a folder

3. Go into IfoEdit (d/l at http://mpucoder.kewlhair.com/Derrow/)

4. Open up the .IFO File for the appropriate VOB

5. Choose the VTS_PGCITI --> VTS_PGC_1 menu

6. Find your "Commercial" chapters

7. Set the entry point sector = to the "last sector of this cell"

8. Save the IFO file

9. Burn your disc

Does anyone know IFO edit any better than I do who can tell me how to just set the one chapter to automatically skip to a subsequent chapter?

Howard

BD38

04-01-2002, 02:37 AM

Authoring apps with DVDPatcher:

Will work -

Maestro
SpruceUp

Won't work -

Scenarist
ReelDVD

wolkowh

04-01-2002, 01:25 PM

Well the resolution fake-out works on some DVD players but not all. My guess, is the one it works in is viewing the DVD as some kind of super-sized Video CD.

The key issue here is TIVO does not produce a Video Stream compatible with the *DVD Spec* It appears the only way to produce a perfect, in-spec DVD which can be read by all DVD players which can read a DVD/R is to process the actual picture data and reencode it to a different resolution. Changing the headers from 480x480 to720x480 produces horrible results, the entire stream must be reencoded. This can produces picture quality loss and takes a whole lot of processing time.

I have 1 player which works perfectly, and 1 which does not (and several which do not read DVD/Rs at all) Wednesday I will check and see if resolution fake-out works on my PS/2 and X-Box (Keeping fingers crossed). Anyhow, here is an update to my how-to document with alternates on the "Get stream into authoring program" step.

BD38

04-01-2002, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by wolkowh
Well the resolution fake-out works on some DVD players but not all. My guess, is the one it works in is viewing the DVD as some kind of super-sized Video CD.

I have 1 player which works perfectly, and 1 which does not
What player does not work? What happens? Did you try with AC3 or PCM audio instead of mpeg audio?

wolkowh

04-01-2002, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by BD38

What player does not work? What happens? Did you try with AC3 or PCM audio instead of mpeg audio?

My Toshiba SD-P1000 does not properly display the video properly, it squishes it into 2/3rds of the screen, with the other 1/3rd doubling the video

Howard

BD38

04-01-2002, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by wolkowh

My Toshiba SD-P1000 does not properly display the video properly, it squishes it into 2/3rds of the screen, with the other 1/3rd doubling the video

Howard
You might have already tried this, but on some players selecting the "4:3 pan and scan" option in the setup has worked for this problem.
I wonder how many players that normally play dvd-r's ok have a problem with the 480x480 video?
I know that the PS2, Pioneer 440 and a very picky Panasonic DVD-LV75 work fine.

wolkowh

04-01-2002, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by BD38

You might have already tried this, but on some players selecting the "4:3 pan and scan" option in the setup has worked for this problem.
I wonder how many players that normally play dvd-r's ok have a problem with the 480x480 video?
I know that the PS2, Pioneer 440 and a very picky Panasonic DVD-LV75 work fine.

Nah, I tried everything - this is the same kindof problem I get in the preview window of Spruce, its def. a 480 vs 720 compatiablilty issue.

wolkowh

04-02-2002, 12:31 AM

I am just curious what people are planning to put onto DVDs - I think the real power of this process is not so much for movies - most are branded in the corner, have breaks, or are available in better resolution as commercial DVDs.

Because the 480x480 resolution matches broadcast quality, I have started to dive into archiving some of my favorite TV Shows (not availble on DVD) such as:
Babylon 5 (currently running on SCI-FI)
Hill Street Blues (Bravo)
Jeremiah (Showtime)
Sex and the City (HBO) I know its available, but a year later
and Millenium (Not on the air, but I have a scrambled 120 hour Tivo with the whole run waiting for a descramble extract crack **argh**)

Long Term I'd love to put together:
Seinfeld (1/2 hr epsides so 1 episode can fit onto a cd/r!)
Pinky and the Brain
Taxi
Brady Bunch
Odd Couple
Honeymooners
Lucy
Cheers
CSI
Remmington Steele
A-Team

I don't think its worth the effort for shows that are out or comming out on DVD like Trek, Simpsons, M*A*S*H, Twin Peaks, etc.

If anyone is persuing archiving the above shows? How about anyone planning a different project?

lsmod

04-04-2002, 01:48 AM

So, more data points:

First of all, DVD Studio Pro works fine with DVDPatcher-tweaked .m2v files. Moreover, it doesn't complain about MPEG2 audio.

So I now have a pretty nice toolchain here:

TivoApp using mfs_stream (renamed to ExtractStream) to pick the programs and pull them off the DTivo.

Vsplit to get .m2v and .mp2 files.

Patch with DVDPatcher so the first sequence claims to be 720x480.

Move the files to the Mac (Gigabit Ethernet Rules!)

Import the files into DVD Studio Pro

Replace the patched .m2v with the original, or repatch with DVDPatcher (this is a bit of a pain, since I don't have SMB running on the Mac or netatalk running on the Linux file server...gotta fix that one way or another)

Author DVD, and go!

On the basis of the warnings about editing with MPEG2VCR or the like, I'm using markers and stories (basically, Chapter stops and Seamless Branching) to edit out the commercials. But from BBC America, that can be 30% of the storage, so this is at best a short-term thing.

Now, some player data:

I've tested this on all the players in the house, and came up with the following:

Pioneer DV-414:
Plays DVD-R (not -RW)
Plays 480x480 on left 2/3 of screen, right 1/3 is black

Pioneer DV-525:
Plays DVD-R and -RW
Plays 480x480 on left 2/3 of screen, right 1/3 is black

Sony DVP-NS700:
Plays DVD-R and -RW
Plays 480x480 correctly (4:3 aspect ratio)

Sharp DV-L70U: (Portable)
Plays DVD-R and -RW
Plays 480x480 on left 2/3 of screen, right 1/3 is black or retains splash screen.

Apex AD-703: (This is so disappointing...)
Plays DVD-R (not -RW)
Won't play 480x480 at all. "Loading" for a minute or two, then punts.

I'm playing with the Letterbox/Pan&Scan flags in DVDSP to see if I can fool the Pioneers and the Sharp into working correctly. If I can get the 525 and/or the Sharp to do the right thing, I'll burn a DVD-R and see if the 414 and 703 work right. (I'm tired of making coasters, so I'll wait until I have the machines that read -RW's working right first.)

If I set the "16:9 Pan&Scan" bit, the Sharp at least centers the image, and if I put it in strech mode (as it would with an anamorphic DVD), the aspect ratio is close (1.18:1, should be 1.33:1), so it's almost watchable. No change on the 525.

But there are two other settings ("16:9 Letterbox" and "16:9 Letterbox and Pan&Scan") to try. I'll keep you posted.

Now, the Apex is a bit of a disappointment, as I'd always thought it would at least try to play anything under the sun. I'd love to hear if someone has an 1100W, 1200, 1500, or 5131 that plays 480x480 DVDs correctly. My 703 has EZPatched (for miniDVD)firmware, and that firmware itself is region-free/MV-free. I'll see if the factory firmware does better, since it's possible that the miniDVD patch is screwing things. Failing that, I'll ask the EZPatch maintainer if he has any ideas on making the 703 happy with 480x480. I'm actually surprised that it fails, since it's the only player I have that supports SVCD's. (which are themselves 480x480 MPEG2)

If someone can confirm that it works, I might pick up a newer Apex, otherwise I'll probably wait for the AD-2500. :D

Actually, once the 2500 is on the shelves, I'll just take a 480x480 DVD-RW down to the local box merchants and start testing.

This is VERY cool, mad props to all involved in getting us here.

As to what I'm doing with it...

Howard, I'm with you on B5. Beyond that:

Red Dwarf (BBCA and SF54)
Yes, Minister (SF54)
Are You Being Served? (SF54)

And I'm hoping someone will decide to start running:

Max Headroom (The original series was genius)
Dave Allen at Large

I'm trying to decide if I want to start collecting Doctor Who. It's available on DVD, but there are so many, that my obsession would probably cost me way too much. But if I made a sport of collecting them off the bird... :rolleyes:

-Z

wolkowh

04-04-2002, 12:31 PM

I am using the chapter break method with a twist also - but, Even with commercials edited out, I can not fit 4 - 1 hour shows onto a DVD - it tends to *just* miss so the space used on the DVD would go blank anyhow so what I do is set a chapter break at the start and end of the commercial break, complie the project to a title set, then go into the VOB files with IFO edit and sent the start point of the commercials chapter = to the end point of the commercial chapter so when the video plays, volia! the commercials are skipped and no editing has to be done to the original files.

Shows I'd love them to start broadcasting again:
Battlestar Galactica
Millenium
Connections (Not the series 2 & 3 running on Discovery Science)
Prisoner Cell Block-H

DVD Player Report
Toshiba SD-P1000 - 2/3rd Problem
X-BOX - *CHOKES on ALL but standard format DVD/R*
PS/2 - Plays everything (Way to go Sony)

BD38

04-04-2002, 04:06 PM

It's disappointing to see so many players having trouble with the 480 vid. After seeing both of mine handle it, I thought the majority of players would.

Since 352x240 is a valid DVD resolution(for mpeg 1), I tried patching to 352x480. Maestro took it and even allowed it to be brought onto the timeline without patching back to 480. Played back correctly in the preview window and compiled. Unfortunately, even a soft player couldn't handle that mess.

Since I was flying a lot, my original intention was to have a quick way to put movies on DVD for my portable. Back in July of last year I stuffed a TivoNet in my dtivo thinking that extraction was "just around the corner". :) Now that extraction and TurboNets are here I rarely fly. I'll probably be putting some movies on DVD that I want to keep, but don't like enough to buy.

lsmod

04-05-2002, 05:19 PM

So, I'd like to start collecting a list of players (both software and settop) that deal with the 480x480 DVDs correctly.

I'll set up a webpage over the weekend, but in the mean time if you've tested a particular player and have results one way or another, please either post here or PM me, and I'll start building the list.

I'll also drop a note to the folks at vcdhelp.com to see if they want to add a field to their database for this.

-Z

lcreech

04-05-2002, 05:58 PM

What about DVD players that support non-standard 480x480, 48khz 192kbit SVCD's?

lsmod

04-05-2002, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by lcreech
What about DVD players that support non-standard 480x480, 48khz 192kbit SVCD's?

Sure, that's another column.

So I guess the relavent columns (and some of this is already in vcdhelp.com's database, but some isn't) are:

Player Name (string)
TivoDVD/MPEG Audio (Yes/No/"2/3rds")
TivoDVD/DD Audio (Yes/No/"2/3rds")
TivoSVCD/MPEG Audio (Yes/No/"No SVCD")
TivoSVCD/DD Audio (Yes/No/"No SVCD")
Comments (string)

For the DVD columns, it seems like the 2/3rds display "bug" is a third answer that's worth recording. (There may be some combination of DVD players and 16:9 TV zoom modes that work.)

For the SVCD columns, it seems like it's worth noting whether the player will play SVCDs at all, so we don't waste time fiddling to make thing work.

I'm defining a TivoDVD and TivoSVCD as a DVD or SVCD authored (using whatever tricks necessary) with un-transcoded audio and video from the DTiVo. As you say, this seems to be 48kHz MP2 at 192kHz. (Which isn't legal for DVD either...at least not NTSC)

Use the comments field for anything odd you've seen.

What am I missing?

Here's a sample:

Sony DVP-NS700P:
TivoDVD/MPEG: Yes
TivoDVD/DD: --
TivoSVCD/MPEG: No SVCD
TivoSVCD/DD: No SVCD
Comments:

Apex AD-703:
TivoDVD/MPEG: No
TivoDVD/DD: --
TivoSVCD/MPEG: Yes
TivoSVCD/DD: --
Comments: Occasional audio glitches may be related to 48kHz.

billyb10

04-30-2002, 08:19 AM

Finally got my Turbonet up and running, and let me just say..
jdiner is the man

Extract, split, patch, author, burn.

Not having to transcode/reencode save time and quality, and the finished DVD's look great.

Here are my DVD player specs.code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sony DVP-NS330:
TivoDVD/MPEG: Yes
TivoDVD/DD: --
TivoSVCD/MPEG: No SVCD
TivoSVCD/DD: No SVCD
Comments:

Toshiba SD-6200:
TivoDVD/MPEG: 2/3 - 1/3 problem
TivoDVD/DD: --
TivoSVCD/MPEG: No SVCD
TivoSVCD/DD: No SVCD
Comments: This sucks, because I love this player and the picture looks SO good.. just twice

Apex AD-703 (with modified Shinco FW for MiniDVD)
TivoDVD/MPEG: Yes
TivoDVD/DD: --
TivoSVCD/MPEG: Yes
TivoSVCD/DD: --
Comments: God Bless the Apex

-billy

keither

04-30-2002, 10:44 AM

I'm interested in this thread .. I picked up an Apex 500wm from Walmart over the weekend. I *did* demo it in the store to see if it would play a tySVCD. It did, however --

1. FF/REW does not work.
2. There are occasional glitches.

We demoed on a 13" TV.. picture quality looked pretty decent. HOWEVER, when I got it home and hooked it up to my 55" Mits, the quality was horrible.

This leads me to believe that the video DACs in the Apex are cheap and that the analog design was quick and dirty. The output from the Tivo is SIGNIFICANTLY better.

I'm interested in the quality of these VCDs as well as their playability. If it's going to look like crap, why bother?

(I'm returning the Apex, btw. The one I got was a "repackaged" open box which WASN'T noted on the item. The remote has been permanently damaged by leaking battery acid. Forget that.)

keith721

04-30-2002, 12:34 PM

there's a suggested workaround :) for FF/Rew on SVCD at http://www.vcdhelp.com/nerosvcd.htm which involves Nero software. review step 4. about including a simple file named scandata.dat

lcreech

04-30-2002, 12:46 PM

If you have a Fry's near you, I suggest getting the Apex AD600A for $79.95 and replacing the rom with the Sampo for Apex code or with the hacked AD700 code for the 600A. The Sampo code allows you to play the un-transcoded MPG from the dTivo or MP3 files from an iso CD or an 80gig hard drive in the 600A. The fastforward and reverse problems with S/VCD's are issues with the burning software and not the player. Fastforward and reverse will not work with the MPG's that are NOT in S/VCD format (i.e it won't work with mpg's on iso CD's or harddisk). I've had some problems with the Sampo code not working with the non-standard SVCD's from the dTivo, but the same SVCD plays with the AD700 code, this may be something I did, as I've had reports that some dTivo SVCD's I've made do work do work with the Sampo code. The AD700 code supports mini-DVD (DVD on CD) but does not play mpg's on iso CD's or support the 80gig harddrive hack.

lsmod

04-30-2002, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by lcreech
or an 80gig hard drive in the 600A.

Whoa! OK, you have my attention. ;)

Can you give me a pointer to some info on the HD hack for the 600A?

-Z

lcreech

04-30-2002, 04:56 PM

I've attached the file, you will need a 27c040 eprom and a burner. The eprom is available at Fry's also. Get the the 100ns one for $11.45.
This is the link to the forum:

http://www.nerd-out.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19036
and
http://www.nerd-out.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17749

This code (v2.1) also has the front panel fixes.

lcreech

04-30-2002, 06:24 PM

A comparision of the different roms available for the Apex 600. The dTivo 480x480 video + 48khz 192kbr audio is not listed in the chart, but they do work as mpg files on the the iso or harddrive for Sampo, and in SVCD format on the AD700 code. Rename the file to a .pdf.

And more info:
http://www.nerd-out.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18761

drapatin

04-30-2002, 08:46 PM

Here is my result:

Toshiba SD-2200:
TivoDVD/MPEG: 2/3 - 1/3 problem
TivoDVD/DD: --
TivoSVCD/MPEG: No SVCD
TivoSVCD/DD: No SVCD
TivoVCD: OK Quality Sucks
Comments: This is driving me crazy! I love this player it has dual drives and the pic is excellent. If a workaround is found, I will be in DVD heaven.. otherwise I'll have to purchase a crappy APEX (crappy because of quality)

Damn Damn Damn.. Someone PLEASE come up with something.

By the way what is:

Apex AD-703 (with modified Shinco FW for MiniDVD)

What is the modified thingamabob?

lcreech

04-30-2002, 09:48 PM

FW = firmware. Modified to have the extra features like minidvd, originating from shinco but changed to work on an apex ad703. I suspect esentually the same hardware, but with different address mappings.

Have you had a look at the sampo for apex 700 and cousins? You may have to be a member to access this link.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ad700/files/Firmware/APEX%20AD-700%20%26%20HAIER%20HD-700%20Firmware/

But here is the file.

drapatin

04-30-2002, 10:01 PM

Just curious

does the apex AD703
play DVD-r's in general well?

I ask because I had a player that wont do the 480 tivo stream and you said the 703 will play them, but I also backup my Commercial DVD's.. some players skip, pop, and quit when playing dvd-r's but my toshiba plays like a champ.

I dont want to have 2 players in my entertainment center.
Does the apex play DVD-r well?

billyb10

04-30-2002, 10:32 PM

Just curious

does the apex AD703
play DVD-r's in general well?

Well.. Mine does. but lsmod's did not.. so it may depend on the FW you have. Anybody have the factory FW and tried?

-billy

sky12

05-01-2002, 12:25 AM

I picked one of these up a little while ago wanting to use it for TyDVD/TyMiniDVD use.

With the various posts, I'm not sure what it'd be good for and not.
Even VCDhelp is uncertain on the MiniDVD side of things.
(the summary shows it can't do MiniDVD, but various folk who reported say it could)

Has anyone tested the unit with TyDVD? TyMiniDVD?
(or can it play the raw mpg file?)
Can someone whip up a small test TyMiniDVD I could throw in the unit?

I'm heading to a friend's place in the US friday to pick up my Turbonet card and if the 3201 isn't good at TyDVD It'd be a good time to grab a player from Walmart/Target/BestBuy that can.

Thanks

lsmod

05-01-2002, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by billyb10

Well.. Mine does. but lsmod's did not.. so it may depend on the FW you have. Anybody have the factory FW and tried?

-billy

Just to be clear: My 703 will play normal DVD-Rs, just not tyDVDs or any DVD-RWs

I tried this with both factory firmware (though not the original...I've reflashed this thing a dozen times, and am using a "factory" image I grabbed off the net) and with several hacked/loophole images, both with and without miniDVD support.

Billy- Which firmware are you using? I'll try it on my machine.

-Z

billyb10

05-01-2002, 03:14 PM

Billy- Which firmware are you using? I'll try it on my machine.

I believe its the first Shinco FW that allowed MiniDVD, I haven't updated it in about 8 months.
It plays DVD-R no problems,
It played the one quick TyDVD i did.
(mfs_stream->vsplit->DVDPathch->Maetro->Cheap DVD)
I can send you the ASD file, if you'd like. (I just found it the other day)

It was a 20 minute clip of Sportcenter, and it diplayed the 480x480 image in the correct aspect. The picture is OK, but acceptable for archiving shows, and ALOT easier than the clusterf of the SA Tivo conversion (audio transcoding/synch issues)

-billy

lsmod

05-01-2002, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by billyb10

I can send you the ASD file, if you'd like. (I just found it the other day)

You have a PM.

Thanks!

-Z

McCracken

05-02-2002, 11:11 AM

For those that have access to DVD StudioPro:

The best method I found so far is to multiplex the vsplit files in TMPGEnc use the wizard in TMPGEnc to encode to 480x720 kick up the bitrate, de-multiplex the new encoded file and import the files into DVDSP and burn. It created a normal 720 DVD with synced audio and great quality.

saltydog4791

05-02-2002, 03:00 PM

Hey McCracken,

I will be using DVD Studio Pro once my burner arrives via UPS. Would you mind giving more detailed instructions using TMPEnc? I want to try and get the best possible quality I can get.

Thanks,

saltydog4791

lsmod

05-02-2002, 03:48 PM

DVD Studio Pro works fine without transcoding. You do need to patch with DVDPatcher, and the MPEG2 decoder used for setting markers has the 2/3 problem, but the results are fine. You are still subject to the player issues, so if you don't have a player that plays tyDVD's correctly, you may still want to transcode.

Now...

Everyone has said this a dozen times, but it bears repeating.

If you are interested in the best quality possible, do not transcode the video!

MPEG is a lossy compression scheme, so even if you are transcoding from a lower resolution to a higher resolution, and from a lower bitrate to a higher bitrate, you are still losing quality.

I highly recommend that if your DVD player won't play tyDVD's that you buy one that does. And don't complain about having to buy an Apex, (and while they're not of the best build quality, they are amazingly flexible machines) you can go buy a Sony NS-700P, an excellent progressive scan player that plays tyDVDs flawlessly.

lsmod

05-02-2002, 03:53 PM

Jdiner-

Just a random thought that came to me as I was making a DVD last night:

Could some future version of vsplit/tySnarf/whatever it gets called add a single 720x480 black I-frame to the beginning of the file?

All of the DVD mastering programs seem to just look at the first sequence header. If you put a single-frame GOP at the beginning of the file that was 720x480, that would make the authoring software happy, and we could just ignore it and quit patching back and forth.

Obviously you'd have to tweak timestamps to maintain sync, but since you're doing that anyway, vsplit seems like the right place to do this.

-Z

BD38

05-02-2002, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by lsmod

All of the DVD mastering programs seem to just look at the first sequence header. If you put a single-frame GOP at the beginning of the file that was 720x480, that would make the authoring software happy, and we could just ignore it and quit patching back and forth.

Unfortunately, several authoring apps look past the first header for correct frame size and the rest, except for Maestro, SpruceUp and DVD Studio Pro, choke on the humongous GOP length.

Has anyone found an authoring app besides these three that work?

lsmod

05-02-2002, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by BD38

Unfortunately, several authoring apps look past the first header for correct frame size and the rest, except for Maestro, SpruceUp and DVD Studio Pro, choke on the humongous GOP length.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that if you patch all the headers (which DVDPatcher will do) then programs other than the aforementioned three will import the video? Can you patch back to 480x480 before muxing?

This is an academic question for me, as I use DVDSP (and don't have a DVD burner in any of my PCs), but an interesting one nonetheless.

As to other programs that may work, as Apple bought Astarte to get DVDSP, I'd think that any of Astarte's older products would work the same.

-Z

BD38

05-03-2002, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by lsmod

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that if you patch all the headers (which DVDPatcher will do) then programs other than the aforementioned three will import the video? Can you patch back to 480x480 before muxing?

lsmod -

No, I was trying to say that even patching all the headers won't allow most authoring apps to import TyVideo streams. For instance, patching all the sequence headers to 720x480 will allow the Sonic products(ReelDVD and Scenarist) to pass the resolution test, but fail on the GOP length.
If a true 720x480 frame was inserted at the beginning of a video stream you wouldn't have to use DVDPatcher before importing, but you would still have to patch back to 480x480 before adding the clip to the timeline in Maestro or SpruceUp. You would also have the problem of the clip not playing correctly in a soft player.
Jdiner offered to have vsplit automatically patch the sequence headers to 720x480, but because of the need to patch back to 480x480 and the soft player issue, I think most people thought it wasn't a good idea.

As to other programs that may work, as Apple bought Astarte to get DVDSP, I'd think that any of Astarte's older products would work the same.

Could very well be as the two apps that have been reported to work on the PC side are both Spruce products.

r00g

05-03-2002, 03:41 PM

Okay, what about this for a solution for transcode-less disc burning...SVCD on a DVD?

In theory, all that has to happen is the player gives precedence to the structure of the disc, not the media. I have just recieved a burner and have been playing around with authoring apps but have yet to burn anything onto my lone DVD-R disc (more are on the way) and I just thought of this while going into work this morning. I plan on getting an RW disc to try this out on this weekend, but was wondering if anyone has attempted this yet. The limits of the true SVCD format mean that you get no DD or any surround other than ProLogic. If you force a DD track in there you would have an xVCD that has limited compatibility but...it just might work; no patching, no transcoding, just pull the tystream, vsplit and burn.

r

wolkowh

05-03-2002, 09:05 PM

I wrote a how-to on making a DVD from a TY Stream - here it is:

r00g

05-03-2002, 09:41 PM

Thanks for the how to wolkowh, I have read it and followed it, but the problem for me is that the authored DVD plays only on the left 2/3 of my DVD player (a pioneer 525). If this was a "megaSCVD" then the 480x480 res. would be correctly displayed...
...which was the main point I got excited about yet somehow forgot to mention in my previous post. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm gonna go out and get me a dvd-rw and try this on sunday.

r

lsmod

05-03-2002, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by r00g
If this was a "megaSCVD" then the 480x480 res. would be correctly displayed...
...which was the main point I got excited about yet somehow forgot to mention in my previous post. :rolleyes:

r

I don't think your 525 will play SVCDs at all.

I'll double-check tonight, but I don't think mine does.

-Z

McCracken

05-04-2002, 09:58 PM

Saltydog,

go to the TMPGenc.net website and click on the support BBS, look for a freetalk message from ianwillis.co.uk and he has some good info on TMPGenc settings.

Im still experimenting with what works best. If you click on the load button in the main window you can load templates for different disc outputs DVD, SVCD etc. I would prefer to have a disc that conforms to the DVD spec rather than buying a new player.

Even though MPEG 2 is lossy compression format adobe claims that encoding should be imperceptible to the human eye. That being said I still am experimenting to find the best solution.

Mc

drapatin

05-05-2002, 01:23 AM

Just an update:

The apex AD-1100W does NOT play a .ty dvd
Serial ending in JE05
it does play dvd-r's ripped from commercial dvd's

but alas, no .ty dvd..
at least my toshiba plays it 2/3

wolkowh

05-05-2002, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by r00g
Thanks for the how to wolkowh, I have read it and followed it, but the problem for me is that the authored DVD plays only on the left 2/3 of my DVD player (a pioneer 525). If this was a "megaSCVD" then the 480x480 res. would be correctly displayed...
...which was the main point I got excited about yet somehow forgot to mention in my previous post. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm gonna go out and get me a dvd-rw and try this on sunday.

r
This is a known problem with quite a few DVD players, I have a toshiba DVD player where this occurs, many inexpensive DVD players work perfectly - check the thread to find out which ones work properly - I know the Sony Playstation 2 works like a charm so that's what I use to view my DVDs in my main entertainment system

Howard

sky12

05-10-2002, 01:54 PM

So, it still sounds like the only apps that work are
DVD Maestro
DVD SpruceUp
DVD Studio Pro

Unfortunately I don't have a Mac laying about the house (although one would be neat to play with)

Where can one get SpruceUp or Maestro?
It doesn't look like they're sold anymore, and I'm not sure of the ethics of sharing non-produced software.

r00g

05-10-2002, 02:35 PM

Here is a SpruceUp guide at vcdhelp.com that has a link to download the demo (fully functional for two exports but inserts a watermark). http://www.vcdhelp.com/spruceup.htm

r

Chattermann

05-11-2002, 09:48 PM

I finally got my Turbonet on Tuesday and worked the whole week to setup Tivo drivers, mfs_export, and vsplit. With everyones great help I finally got the video extracted over the network connection, split the Ty Stream then made a Ty DVD with SpruceUp and the DVD patcher. And I'm just checking in to tell everyone that it all works great! And lucky me - my DVD player, a Pioneer DV-440, plays the DVD-R beutifully! I set screenmode to 4:3 (pan and scan). I can only FF at 3x, which is the fastest I can do with an SVCD on that player, DVD will FF at 6x. So I think the player is treating the TyDVD as if it were a Mega SVCD...

Thanks again to everyone for all the help!

justme

05-12-2002, 06:59 PM

I just got a Pioneer DVR-104 and have been trying various things with Nero and SpruceUp. I am happy to report that my Panasonic RV-26 DVD player plays tyDVDs just fine (FF/REV ok, too). Funny thing is, it won't play SVCDs at all. VCDs/XVCDs play as well.

As for media, I have used the following in this player w/o problems:

CD-R: Imation (CMC), Kodak (Kodak), HP (Taiyo Yuden), Fuji (Taiyo Yuden)

CD-RW: CompUsa (no-name), Imation (CMC)

DVD-R: CompUsa (Lead Data), Memorex (CMC)

DVD-RW: Memorex (Ritek)

Here is a tip I use in SpruceUp. If you capture a movie frame as the menu background from a tyDVD file, the image isn't wide enough, as it's only 480 wide. After capturing the frame, exit SpruceUp. Open the BMP with MS Paint. Select Image - Stretch and Skew. Set horizontal stretch to 150%. Select Image - Attributes. Set image size to 720x480. Save BMP. When you open it again in SpruceUp, it fills the background.

shuiqlazam

05-15-2002, 09:20 PM

So, I've got the streams seperated to m2v and m2a and I can place them into myDVD+3.0 and it plays, but the audio is about 2 seconds ahead of the Video....

How can I fix this? I read that I need to convert it to AC3? or do I need to clip it? Of course I want it sync'd all the way through....

I've got sound forge 5 would that do it?

Shui

Note: Just learning, but MyDVD just added the audio-video no complaints... don't know if it's re-encoding.... but when it builds the DVD, it says transcoding....

BD38

05-17-2002, 05:31 PM

shuiglazam -

I've never seen a vsplit Tystream be off by 2 seconds. The most I've seen(by just eyeballing the lipsync) is a couple of hundred ms. In Maestro this can be fixed by just sliding the audio stream down the timeline.

MyDVD is transcoding(re-encoding) the streams. This might be where your losing sync. Are you off by 2 seconds at the very start and it maintains this two seconds throughout the clip or does it get progressively worse?

shuiqlazam

05-18-2002, 12:57 PM

Well,

If I use MyDVD, it can create a DVD on HD. Still waiting for my burner :(

I can play it with PowerDVD and it's off in the beginning and I think it gets worse over time.

But, I'm now thinking it's PowerDVD playing it not how MYDVD did it.

See if I use the new Vplit tool that puts the m2a and m2v into a Vob or MPG2 stream, the audio and video are in perfect sync.

I'll follow up when I know more, but i know thinks it's the way software DVD players sync the stream or something...

Shui

hammer32

05-20-2002, 08:36 PM

Ismod,

I'm trying to go your route to archiving to DVD, but after I get the two files: .m2v and .mp2, I can't seem to get DVD Studio Pro to import the .mp2 file (it sees the .m2v file just fine). What do I need to do to get the sound imported (I've got about 30 minutes experience with DSP :) )?

Thanks much!!

lsmod

05-22-2002, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by hammer32
Ismod,

I'm trying to go your route to archiving to DVD, but after I get the two files: .m2v and .mp2, I can't seem to get DVD Studio Pro to import the .mp2 file (it sees the .m2v file just fine). What do I need to do to get the sound imported (I've got about 30 minutes experience with DSP :) )?

Strange. I have the opposite problem. In my experience, the .mp2 can be imported immediately, but I have to patch the .m2v with DVDPatcher to get it to import.

I'm afraid I'm not much help.

BTW: I'm using DVDSP 1.2, not sure if 1.5 has some "fixes."

shuiqlazam

05-28-2002, 08:50 PM

Thanks everyone for great info.

Using TY2DVD worked for me with spruceup 1.0

check my post here

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=13569

Cheers!
Shui

el jefe

07-11-2002, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by shuiqlazam
So, I've got the streams seperated to m2v and m2a and I can place them into myDVD+3.0 and it plays, but the audio is about 2 seconds ahead of the Video....

How can I fix this? I read that I need to convert it to AC3? or do I need to clip it? Of course I want it sync'd all the way through....

I've got sound forge 5 would that do it?

Shui

Note: Just learning, but MyDVD just added the audio-video no complaints... don't know if it's re-encoding.... but when it builds the DVD, it says transcoding....

I have the same problem using MyDVD. I'm pretty sure it's not from the transcoding, because when you preview it's got the same off by the same 2 seconds problem (after previewing you tell it to burn the DVD which is where the transcoding takes place).
The burned DVD comes out the same., so it's not the software player that is causing it.

Did you ever find a fix for this?

captain_video

07-11-2002, 01:35 PM

I think you're going to need to get a copy of either DVDMaestro or SpruceUp for DVD authoring if you're going to use the m2v and m2a tysplit files. These are not standard formats and do strange things when used in most authoring programs. The only other option would be to mux the streams together first to get a full MPEG2 compliant stream. This will also allow you to use editing software, such as M2-Edit, for cutting out commercials, etc. I have personally not had any luck trying to mux the streams together using either TMPGEnc or bbMPEG, although there are numerous other users that have had success using these programs. I use SpruceUp for authoring my TyDVDs and, with the exception of some earlier experiments, have not had any audio sync problems. I just insert chapter stops before and after commercial breaks so I can skip past them. I also insert breaks just past the DTV intro crap prior to PPV movies so I can start the movie right at the beginning without having to wade through the DTV promos first. I've also found it helpful to insert chapter stops every 10 minutes or so because my DVD player that I use for playback (an Apex AD-1100W) only fast-forwards at 2X so I can return to any point in the movie without too much trouble if I shut down the DVD player before I finish watching the movie.

bfdhe

07-11-2002, 04:01 PM

I have a TiVo SA and use TyTool to get the .ty off the Tivo. Then I use vsplit to make and .m2v and .m2a file. I have both Maestro and SpruceUp but they tell me my audio files are unsupported.

However, if I mux the files into an .mpg, I can then master and burn the DVD. This seems like a needlees waste of time.

I have reviewed several threads and cannot figure out what I am doing wrong.

Any help is appreciated.

captain_video

07-11-2002, 04:31 PM

If you're using TyTool to extract the tystreams then why not extract and split them at the same time. Tysplit is built into TyTool and can do this all in one step. I don't understand why you're getting an error message regarding the audio files since m2a files are supported in both SpruceUp and Maestro. Are you using DVDPatcher to patch the first header to 720X480 before adding your media assets? Are you tring to import the m2a files directly? All you need to do is import the m2v file and the m2a file is automatically imported once the preview file is generated for the video portion. Don't forget to repatch the header back to 480X480 after you initially imported the media assets (be sure to close out Maestro first; SpruceUp should have generated an error and closed on its own).