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misato
10-27-2002, 01:56 AM
I (finally!) laid my hands on a 120 GB maxtor to expand my Hughes Dtivo. Now I'm sorting out my options.

I don't have a serial cable nor turbonet, and that's okay. For now all I want to do is expand recording capacity.

I had originally thought to use 25Xtreme to prepare the 120, swap it for the factory 40, and keep the 40 around as a spare until I developed confidence in the 120. Then use the 40 in another PC. But the way things are going, I'm not likely to ever get the tivo empty of all the stuff I want to save-to-tape. So I'm considering just blessing the 120 and adding it in as a B drive. But I have some questions.

1) The PC with enough space to do a backup of the current image has 2 drives: C for boot and D (NTFS) for data. Even swapping drives around to make the big data drive primary master won't let me backup my current tivo image to it, will it? I'm under the impression that NTFS is read only for Linux. Is that correct?

2) If I bless the new drive and install it, my impression is that it will simply be accepted by the DTivo as additional storage, no fuss, yes? I don't have to touch the original drive at all? Will the DTivo work okay with that much expansion, though? Does it need partitions or tables or something modified on the original drive to handle an additional 120 GB smoothly?

3) What's this I hear about "unlocking" a new Maxtor drive? Is that something I need to do before blessing it?

4) Can I do all this from scripts within 25Xtreme, or must I d/l older utilities and do things the original ("Hinsdale") way?

Thanks for any tips or advice: I'm hoping for a smooth upgrade w/o loss of data already on my factory drive. Anything to improve my odds of that, and reduce the risk of having to Xtreme both drives to empty state would be appreciated!

<edit> PS Do the Hinsdale instructions still work on a system with the original A drive now running version 2.5.2 software?

Wooly
10-27-2002, 10:48 AM
Misato:

Before you go and swap, I STRONGLY encourage you to put in the TurboNet. It's not much money, but extracting to PC (and then putting on SVCD or DVD-R) is much higher quality archiving than dumping to tape (plus faster, all things considered). Please reconsider this decision.

That being said, let's go over your questions:

1. You could avoid this by simply do a "dd" and copy the existing drive over to the new 120 gigger. It'll take a long time (i.e. overnight) but it solves all your concerns regarding keeping existing shows). But to answer your question, you are correct - NTFS-5 is RO to Linux.

2. You'll have to have both drives in, run the script from DtivoMad, and you're good to go. The DTivo can handle up to 2 drives maxing out at 137 gigs each currently (for a total cap. of 274 gigs, or roughly 220 hours).

3. Unlocking a Maxtor drive? It's not unlocking, per se, but go to Maxtor's site and download the sound management software (along with Write verification). Turn Sound Management to "Quiet", and turn Verify Writes to "off". It's 2 different utils, let me know if you can't find them and I'll dig them out for you.

4. See above - dd is contained as part of the Xtreme CD, and the Maxtor utils are obviously dloaded seperately (and must be done in DOS with NO himem loaded).

Look, easiest (and best) thing to do is to Xtreme the 120 gigger alone in the Dtivo, installing TurboNet, and then you can always slave on an additional 120 gigger later.

Second best is to dd over to the 120 gigger, run DtivoMad on it to expand the partition, and then you can add another 120 gigger on later.

Whatever you do, make SURE you insmod the noscramble.o right now, so if you add TurboNet later you aren't dealing with a crapload of scrambled (and useless) recordings.

PS - Yes.

misato
10-27-2002, 12:22 PM
Wooly, actually I was simplifying a bit when I said "copy to tape". I agonized for literally months over the extraction issue, watching things develop from Jdiner's first struggles with the Dtivos, until I couldn't wait any longer, and had to make a decision. At the time, people were extracting 99.9% successfully and making DVDs (with many steps of fooling around to make the files palatible to authoring software), but it was not possible to edit extracted files in their unmolested MPEG form. Clean edits would have required a transcode (if practical) to some high quality intermediate format such as AVI using MJPEG, edit, then transcode again to MPEG. This would use a *lot* of CPU time as well as scratch space, and the 2 transcoding steps would likely negate the quality advantage extraction was all about.

I finally decided that since editing was a must have for me, and my resources were finite (I couldn't afford a 19 inch rack with a half dozen servers to do file massage), plus the uncertainties introduced by two transcoding steps, extraction wasn't the practical solution for me.

So I broke down and bought an analog to firewire converter box ti use with the firewire capture card I'd previously bought surplus (at extreme discount from list), and have been capturing and editing since. I do undoubtedly suffer some quality loss by running s-video through the outboard converter to get to DV, but it's still quite good and runs in real time, resulting in a DV AVI file ready to edit. I do the edit (10 minutes), then start up an MPEG encode (4 to 7 hours for a 42 minute edited show) and end up with a 1.1 GB file barely distinguishible from the DTivo's initial playback.

So when I said I "copy to tape", I was simplifying to avoid distracting from the questions I had. I continue to like the *idea* of direct extraction, and perhaps matters have become better since I gave up waiting and proceeded, but at the time, extraction wasn't feasible for me.

With 2 PCs available, I capture, edit and encode 6 "hours" daily, and have the ability to do similar captures from analog sources eg tape, should that need arise. (I'm still getting caught up on series currently being broadcast, so I haven't dipped into my rather massive backlog of super beta tapes, made over the years.)

Anyway, all that's not intended to sound like a flame (I can't tell looking at it if it may sound that way), but much as I like the idea of extraction, it's an explanation why I'm not focused on the idea of spending another $100 for turbonet right now.

---so back to the main topic---

Reconsidering, at the expense of running partition magic for a couple of hours before and after, I think I can get enough FAT32 scratch space to make a data-included backup of my current tivo drive, so I could, I suppose, do a restore/expand onto the new 120 drive. That would preserve the shows backlogged onto the current drive, and probably not miss anything, if I can find or create a 6 to 8 hour gap in my to do list. (In an ideal world, I'd just have a 2nd Tivo, work on one, put it into service, empty the other, work on it, then have two super boxes. But the economy being like it is, that's not an option. I really have to make do with hardware I have on hand right now.) I gather that mfstools has an alternative to dd that can also adjust the swap space the tivo uses? Or is that in a different package, or have drawbacks I'm not aware of?

I remain a bit confused about the several tools available, and am a little worried about the Hinsdale howto, as it refers to the "new 1.1 version" of some of the tools, when I think they're currently at 2.0.

If I Xtremed the new drive and let it do its gymnastics in the tivo box, it would take care of the PROM issues and pave the way for extraction or other hacks in future. But am I correct in thinking it would not be practical to restore my old A drive image to an Xtremed drive?

Tools available for doing "old fashioned" drive upgrades include Kasimir 2.6g, 25Xtreme, TivoMad Boot CD, MFStools 2.0, and possibly others. This leaves me more than a little confused about the best approach, especially since the recordings I would like to preserve are in original, scrambled form. Assuming it's not practical to restore data onto an Xtremed drive, can you offer any guidance on the right tool set to use to use to backup my old A drive, restore to a new A drive, then expand the new A to use all of the new 120 GB capacity? It seems advisable to increase swap now rather than later, in case I wanted to add a second 120 later, yes?

115 characters too long. Continued...

misato
10-27-2002, 12:23 PM
Or perhaps this is all becoming too complicated, and the thing to do is to just Xtreme the new 120 and set up my highest priority wish lists manually, then on occasion find a gap in the to do list and use that to swap in the old drive and copy out old recordings from the original drive? That would be a lot of fooling with the tivo, but repeated simple operations on the tivo, rather than lengthy one-time (hence more error prone) operations tying up one of my PCs as I fool around preparing the 120...

Your thoughts?

misato
10-27-2002, 04:18 PM
If I Xtremed the 120 and ran that alone, and set it for noscramble, is there a way to move all my preferences, wish lists, etc over?

BubbleLamp
10-27-2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by misato
If I Xtremed the 120 and ran that alone, and set it for noscramble, is there a way to move all my preferences, wish lists, etc over?

Yes, do a backup of your existing drive with mfstools 2.0. It will save all your prefs and settings. restore it to the new drive, expand the drive to use all the space.

Wooly
10-27-2002, 09:05 PM
Honestly, If I were you I would just load both Drives into a PC, boot from the Xtreme CD, and DD (that's Disc Duplicate) the 40 gigger onto the 120 gigger, then DtivoMad the 120 gigger to expand the partition - this is the best of all worlds, as you aren't copying to-from a Fat32 drive, you're just making a perfect image of your old drive and then expanding the Partition. Later you can add a TurboNet and/or a second 120 gigger. Trust me, this is the least-hassle way to go.

ALSO, things have changed dramatically - I have had very little trouble getting stuff onto DVD. Here's my steps...people may want to write this down, it's nearly ***** proof, provides perfect edits, and takes up little time. This is ONLY for Dtivo, as Dtivo saves the audio at 48khz:

1. TivoApp extract using MFSStream.
2. VSplit the files into .m2v and .m2a
3. Mux using TMPGEnc, Mpeg Tools, Simple Multiplex
4. View .MPG in PowerDVD, write down your edit points
5. Edit in TMPGEnc, Mpeg Tools, Merge & Cut (for movies, it's piece of cake - just enter in the starting and ending point and you're good). Save it to a new Mpeg
6. Demux in TMPGEnc, Mpeg Tools, Simple Demultiplex.
7. Run IFOEdit v.94 or higher - DVD Author, put in your edited .m2v and .m2a.
8. Create.
9. Correct VTS Sectors. Save. Quit IFOEdit
10. Run IFOEdit on your new VTS_01_1.IFO, Correct VTS Sectors again (can never be too sure). Go to VOB Extras, make sure that the VOB size is 1 GB, check Strip Streams, Stirp VobID's, Correct Vob-Unit, Correct Oroginal IFO files, and Create new IFO files. Leave the VOB Expert options alone. Choose a new directory, and hit ok. Select all the Streams, and select all the VOB's. You need to do this step because (for some unknown reason) the first set of IFO files are just slightly not "right", and you have to do this to fix everything. Quit IFOEdit
11. Run IFOEdit on the NEW NEW .IFO, Correct VTS Sectors again, and save. Quit IFOEdit.
12. Run PowerDVD, load the NEW NEW .IFO file, check for quality and sync - go ALL THE WAY TO THE END by making jumps, check for lip sync. I've never had it go bad, but it could happen...
12. Run Nero, burn your DVD from the NEW NEW IFO's and VOB files.

At NO POINT during this did a Transcode take place, and the whole process from extract to burn takes roughly 30 minutes. I kid you not. When JDiner gets his fine work done, we can remove 2 steps and edit directly inside TMPGEnc, which will give us GOP-accurate edit points. At that point I have about 40 DVD's to create for him (I promised him all of MacGyver and Babylon5, and I intend to honor that promise).

Things get a little more interesting with multiple chapters (i.e., putting several different .TY files onto a DVD), but that's a topic for a different How-To, because until IFOEdit is updated to include Chapter Point capabilities I'm relagated to using SpruceUp and a fake-out process)

BTW, folks, you can find all the DVD covers you could ever ask for at http://www.cdcovers.cc

misato
10-28-2002, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by misato
Yes, do a backup of your existing drive with mfstools 2.0. It will save all your prefs and settings. restore it to the new drive, expand the drive to use all the space.

Would that result in a system with fixsub, ethernet drivers and the other Xtreme enhancements, or just a pure expanded version of what I'm running now (100% untinkered dtivo right now)? ie do the mfstools v2 copy *just* prefs and settings and wishlists etc, or does it also copy the system software?

BubbleLamp
10-28-2002, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by misato
Would that result in a system with fixsub, ethernet drivers and the other Xtreme enhancements, or just a pure expanded version of what I'm running now (100% untinkered dtivo right now)? ie do the mfstools v2 copy *just* prefs and settings and wishlists etc, or does it also copy the system software?

Whatever is on the drive when you backup is what will be on the new one, minus the shows themselves. If you didn't Xtreme it before the B/U, it ain't gonna have Xtreme.

Wooly
10-28-2002, 01:40 PM
Not entirely accurate - if he does a dd, the shows will also be there. dd does an EXACT COPY of the HD (which is why he'd have to also run DTivoMad, to expand the newly-copied partitions).


Originally posted by BubbleLamp
Whatever is on the drive when you backup is what will be on the new one, minus the shows themselves. If you didn't Xtreme it before the B/U, it ain't gonna have Xtreme.

BubbleLamp
10-28-2002, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Wooly
Not entirely accurate - if he does a dd, the shows will also be there. dd does an EXACT COPY of the HD (which is why he'd have to also run DTivoMad, to expand the newly-copied partitions).

Sorry for confusion, I was answering his question regarding mfstools B/U, not dd backup.

misato
10-29-2002, 06:55 AM
Okay. So it looks like I have the following options:

I could use MFSTools to do a dd then expand, resulting in a "pure" drive, including shows currently recorded, but at full capacity. I'd be at 2.5.2 software version, but scramble and daily call nags would still be in effect.

Or I could Xtreme the drive, then re-enter my wishlists and such, but have none of the previously recorded stuff. I could occasionally swap back to the factory drive to get old stuff off that drive, when I found or created a few hour gap in my to do list in which to work without missing any recordings.

If I Xtremed, I'd be well advised to apply noscramble (does Xtreme do that automatically, or is that an additional operation?) so that should I want to extract in future, my recordings would be accessible. Once I ran Xtreme, I'd have bash (I would have to make a serial cable of course), so I could fiddle with things through serial, right after Xtreme.

If I ran fixsub, I'd be safe from software updates destroying bash, but I'd also not get the 2.5.2 version, which has reduced incidence of lockups and such, correct? If I forced a few real daily calls, I'd get the improved 2.5.2 software for more stable operations, but would lose bash. Restoring it would require pulling the drive again and doing some edits, yes?

Since I'm not considering turbonet or tivoweb at this point, I'm not concerned with ethernet drivers, but it would be nice to engage noscramble., and possibly fixsub, as it's a pita to connect for a daily call every 3 weeks or so.

So I guess my residual questions are:

If I Xtremed and then forced daily calls to upgrade to 2.5.2, then I would need to pull the drive again to apply noscramble and fixsub, and those procedures are documented here somewhere?

Or if I Xtremed and applied Kraven's update, would that put me at 2.5.2 version? (Or is making a real daily call or three the only way to do that?)

(I'd like noscramble and fixsub, but would prefer they be applied to 2.5.2, basically, before I went off the phone line.)

Thanks!