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View Full Version : I just want to Burn a d*mn DVD of a TiVo Recording



tMk
10-28-2002, 01:45 PM
I am a DVD newbie - no ifs ands or buts. Please pardon my ignorance, I have spent most of the weekend reading everything I could find on extracting video from dtivo to make a DVD. What you guys have done is nothing short of amazing - my hats off to you - very cool stuff.

I have a Hughes dtivo and have been able to successfully turn-off scrambling and using tytool5 to extract the raw ty stream to my PC (very cool indeed!). I am using the option in tytool to split the ty file into the .m2v and .m2a during the extraction from the dTivo. Using dvdpatch, I patch the header to 720 horizontal so I can load into Spruceup and then patch it back to 480. Doing all this I can create a title set (Using SpruceUp) that I can burn to my DVD - I am using a CenDyne DV-104 (same as a Pioneer DV-104) for the burning.

My problem is that my files that I am burning do not seem to be large enough. My output set from SpruceUp is around 700 MB for a 30 minute show - I think it should be around a gig or sor assuming two hours of video should fit on my 4.7GB DVD. A three hour show off the dtivo only fills about 4.2GB. This concerns me - what am I doing wrong?

I think I am missing something important - is it that I am burning video that is 480x480 as opposed to 720x480?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide - if I missed this somewhere on the forum I apologize.

tMk

Wooly
10-28-2002, 01:51 PM
1. TivoApp extract using MFSStream.
2. VSplit the files into .m2v and .m2a
3. Mux using TMPGEnc, Mpeg Tools, Simple Multiplex
4. View .MPG in PowerDVD, write down your edit points
5. Edit in TMPGEnc, Mpeg Tools, Merge & Cut (for movies, it's piece of cake - just enter in the starting and ending point and you're good). Save it to a new Mpeg
6. Demux in TMPGEnc, Mpeg Tools, Simple Demultiplex.
7. Run IFOEdit v.94 or higher - DVD Author, put in your edited .m2v and .m2a.
8. Create.
9. Correct VTS Sectors. Save. Quit IFOEdit
10. Run IFOEdit on your new VTS_01_1.IFO, Correct VTS Sectors again (can never be too sure). Go to VOB Extras, make sure that the VOB size is 1 GB, check Strip Streams, Stirp VobID's, Correct Vob-Unit, Correct Oroginal IFO files, and Create new IFO files. Leave the VOB Expert options alone. Choose a new directory, and hit ok. Select all the Streams, and select all the VOB's. You need to do this step because (for some unknown reason) the first set of IFO files are just slightly not "right", and you have to do this to fix everything. Quit IFOEdit
11. Run IFOEdit on the NEW NEW .IFO, Correct VTS Sectors again, and save. Quit IFOEdit.
12. Run PowerDVD, load the NEW NEW .IFO file, check for quality and sync - go ALL THE WAY TO THE END by making jumps, check for lip sync. I've never had it go bad, but it could happen...
12. Run Nero, burn your DVD from the NEW NEW IFO's and VOB files.

Wooly
10-28-2002, 01:58 PM
That sounds about right - remember, we're talking a source of 480x480, so it's going to have 1/3 less video data than a DVD (probably less than that, as the bitrate of the Dtivo is lower than most DVD's). Just becuase you changed the header to read 720x480 doesn't mean you magically got all that additional data in the stream - you just changed the header, nothing more. No padding is added.

I usually fit 4 Babylon 5's on each DVD-r. You're good. I posted my process for single shows above. You're going to find that some channels (HBO, for example) get more bandwidth off the bird than other channels, and some shows (PPV, HBO Sat. Night premieres, Letterbox shows) get WAY more. I've captured 1 hr with less than 900 meg of data, and then I'll grab Robin Williams in NY (which was 1:40) and it totals over 4 gig. It all depends on what the DTV computer decides to dial in the compression at (this could start a HUGE discussion on the dynamic nature of DTV's compression algorithms and how it correlates to the uplink nature of the data to a limited # transponders per bird, but we won't bore everyone with it).


Originally posted by tMk
My problem is that my files that I am burning do not seem to be large enough. My output set from SpruceUp is around 700 MB for a 30 minute show - I think it should be around a gig or sor assuming two hours of video should fit on my 4.7GB DVD. A three hour show off the dtivo only fills about 4.2GB. This concerns me - what am I doing wrong?

I think I am missing something important - is it that I am burning video that is 480x480 as opposed to 720x480?

captain_video
10-28-2002, 02:16 PM
tMk,

What you're doing is just fine. The file sizes you specified are about right for the length of time you cited. You should be able to get at least 3 hours of programming on a 4.7GB DVD. You will find that the same show recorded on different channels will result in widely varying file sizes. This is due to the amount of compression DTV uses for each channel. I been using the same method you outlineded for many months now and it's by far the easiest and fastest method of burning DVDs. If you're recording shows with commercials, you may want to try adding chapter stops at the end of each commercial break. This allows you to hit the chapter skip button whenever a commercial starts and skip right past it to the beginning of the next program segment.

I haven't tried the method that Wooly outlined because it just seems like too much time and work involved. I'm surprised to see that anyone actually uses TivoApp anymore since jdiner came out with his tytool utility. I extract a lot of shows for DVD archiving and I don't want to spend all of my time on the authoring process. I've found that I can author a DVD, with chapter stops, in just a few minutes (more if I'm recording multiple episodes on a single DVD). You still have to extract and split the files no matter which method you choose so any extra steps are just a waste of my valuable time, but that's just my opinion. You might find it to be a little quicker if you choose the TySplit method when you extract. This splits the tystream on the fly so that you produce the m2v and m2a files directly.

Wooly,

Not to rain on your parade, but just how long does it take you to go through your entire process for a typical 1/2-hour show? Give me an estimate based on starting with the split files (i.e. m2V and m2A) and ending with the finished files just prior to burning them to a DVD. The SpruceUp method only takes about 15 minutes to author, simulate, and compile for DVD burning. Burn time obviously depends on the burner you are using. Extraction and splitting times should be fairly close with both methods except that tytool splits on the fly, making it a one-step extraction process that is certainly faster than the two-step method you employ for the exact same results.

smiffy
10-30-2002, 07:46 AM
Sorry to butt in here, but Im trying to do the same thing here, but record as a SVCD which should have a native res of 480x480.

DVDR drives are still a little expensive here in the UK so for the time being Im stuck with SVCD!!!

Can you advise what tools I should use to convert either th TY stream or the M2a and M2v files into a compatible MPEG?

Thanks

captain_video
10-30-2002, 11:59 AM
The search engine works nicely for this (lots of previous topics on the subject).

phrend
10-31-2002, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by smiffy
Sorry to butt in here, but Im trying to do the same thing here, but record as a SVCD which should have a native res of 480x480.
...
Can you advise what tools I should use to convert either th TY stream or the M2a and M2v files into a compatible MPEG?

Thanks

Check out http://www.30below.com/~zmerch/tivo/index.cfm - extract with tytool and then jump to step #6.

Wooly
10-31-2002, 09:07 AM
Hmm....let me think here..

Let's say we're dealing with a movie (which is how the process I described is meant to address). Roughly, I can go from the .TY file to Nero in less than 15 minutes...BUT bear in mind, my "sitting in front of the computer working" time is less than 2 minutes. It's really dependant on how fast your computer/HD RAID is (a Stripe raid is a must here, folks, we're talking about manipulation of gigs of Data...gotta have fast, defragmented HD's (I use DiskKeeper to run every night from 2am until 8am)).

For multiple episodes, I use the Spruce-Up method, which is:

1. TivoApp Extract
2. Vsplit to .m2v/.m2a (I drag-n-drop to batch files)
3. DVD Patcher first frames
4. Bring .m2v's into Spruce-Up pre-made template
5. Save template
6. un-DVD Patcher first frames
7. Create Spruce-Up Title Set
8. Burn to Nero

This obviously takes longer, as SpruceUp takes a long time to import files...say, 1.5 hours per DVD.

Upon reflection...this takes way too long. I need to get a life.


Originally posted by captain_video
Wooly,

Not to rain on your parade, but just how long does it take you to go through your entire process for a typical 1/2-hour show? Give me an estimate based on starting with the split files (i.e. m2V and m2A) and ending with the finished files just prior to burning them to a DVD. The SpruceUp method only takes about 15 minutes to author, simulate, and compile for DVD burning. Burn time obviously depends on the burner you are using. Extraction and splitting times should be fairly close with both methods except that tytool splits on the fly, making it a one-step extraction process that is certainly faster than the two-step method you employ for the exact same results.

captain_video
10-31-2002, 09:31 AM
OK, now I'm confused. The procedure you just described is completely different from the one you outlined in the beginning of the thread. So, which one do you really use? You also indicate that you're using a RAID array, correct? This is obviously beyond the scope of most users' home PCs and therefore an impractical method for the majority of users on this forum. My original question was regarding the procedure you outlined at the beginning of the thread, not the standard SpruceUp method.

Based on your time frame for processing a movie (I'm assuming that you're talking about your 1st method for doing this so correct me if I'm wrong), using a single hard drive (no RAID array) and the SpruceUp method doesn't really take much longer, if not the same time. I can import a 2-hour movie, add a menu with buttoons and titles, add chapter stops at 10-minute intervals, simulate it to ensure the buttons and chapter stops work, and compile the movie to a title set in about 20 minutes.

Since my DVD burner is compatible with SpruceUp, I usually compile and burn a movie directly to a DVD-RW, so my time spent in front of my computer is probably about 5 minutes. I extract and split using tytool, patch and import to SpruceUp, then repatch back to 480X480. I have readymade templates for movies and also program series' that I archive with multiple episodes on DVD. I set up the templates ahead of time based on upcoming episodes so I can im[port them directly into the template and author them as soon as they're finished being processed. Total time to author a single show, with chapter stops and simulation, is probably less than 5 minutes and typically less than 2 if the chapter stops are good on the 1st pass. I save the project and import the next show when it becomes available. I generally fit 3 episodes of Babylon 5 or 6 episodes of Seinfeld on a DVD, both with commercials intact.

I opt for leaving the commercials in because the muxing and transcoding and whatever extra processing involved just isn't worth the extra time and effort. The cost savings is minimal when you consider the current price of DVD-R's. I've never had any luck muxing without losing audio sync so the aggravation wasn't worth it either.