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View Full Version : Which CMD LINE program will create MPEG2 files from raw TyStreams (or M2V/M2A files)?



psxjunky
11-20-2002, 07:49 PM
I am successfully extracting shows from my SA series 1 Tivo using TyTool5 and can get either the raw TyStream or M2V/M2A files.

I am now looking for a good COMMAND LINE program running on Windows that can create MPEG2 files either from the raw tystreams or from the splitted M2V/M2A files. I will be viewing these MPEG2 files straight from the PC, so I don't care about getting them in DVD or SVCD format.

I can already use the TyConvert GUI to create MPEG2 files from the TyStream, but I would have to do this one file at a time. I would really like to automate this procedure so that I can convert a bunch of TyStreams overnight without having to manually convert each one ... that is why I am looking for a BATCH tool.

I also read about the ty2mpeg program, but that seems to run only on Unix. I need a Windows equivalent of this.

Anyone know of a good program that'll do this ?

zabs
11-20-2002, 09:27 PM
check out VirtualDub. I think it will do the conversion you want to do and even though it is not command line, it has a scheduler than you can queue up a bunch of tasks and then leave it to process.

psxjunky
11-20-2002, 10:13 PM
Much thanks, zabs :D

I'l try VirtualDub right away !

FredThompson
11-21-2002, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by zabs
check out VirtualDub. I think it will do the conversion you want to do and even though it is not command line, it has a scheduler than you can queue up a bunch of tasks and then leave it to process.

VirtualDub doesn't have native support for MPEG-2 nor is it a command line program.

What you seem to want is a way to multiplex. Go get TMPGEnc and try the MPEG tools. Alternately, use a search engine to find a free MPEG-2 multiplexing utility or check an A/V site.

digitalAir
11-21-2002, 10:52 AM
or wait with bated breath until jdiner gets the muxing features integrated into vsplit...

:)

psxjunky
11-21-2002, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by digitalAir
or wait with bated breath until jdiner gets the muxing features integrated into vsplit...

:)

That's exactly what I have been waiting for :D ... but until that becomes a reality I need an interim method to back up the whole slew of Seinfield episodes to give my Tivo a little breating room :)

I noticed the VirtualDub issues Fred mentioned, but wasn't sure if it is the program or my lack of familiarity with it.

lmurray
11-21-2002, 03:11 PM
mplex is a command line muxer. People have complained that it doesn't work to well on DTivo streams tho. Do a search for mplex, and look for the windows port.

-lloyd-

psxjunky
11-21-2002, 03:23 PM
Hey, what about this "mplex" program I keep reading about ?

It appears that this tool allows multiplexing m2v and m2a streams into a single MPEG stream, but I am not sure if it is capable of creating a MPEG-2 stream or it can create only MPEG-1 streams.

I am trying to find out more about this, but if anyone has any more info about this program, I would very much appreciate a pointer.

Ideally I am looking for some tool that'll give me an MPEG-2 stream straight from the TyStream, but even if I have to go the way of tystream-->elementary-streams-->Multiplexed-MPEG-2 ... I'll be happy !

FredThompson
11-21-2002, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by psxjunky
Hey, what about this "mplex" program I keep reading about ?

It appears that this tool allows multiplexing m2v and m2a streams into a single MPEG stream, but I am not sure if it is capable of creating a MPEG-2 stream or it can create only MPEG-1 streams.

m2v is mpeg-2
m1v is mpeg-1

DirecTV is not MPEG-2 so there are a lot of things that need to be done to clean up those streams. SA Tivos should be far more compliant.

psxjunky
11-21-2002, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by FredThompson
m2v is mpeg-2
m1v is mpeg-1

DirecTV is not MPEG-2 so there are a lot of things that need to be done to clean up those streams. SA Tivos should be far more compliant.

Ahh ... silly me :p That makes sense.

I have an SA TiVo ... so I am saved on that ground.

Now only if someone could tell me where to find the Windows port of mplex I'd be all set.

Google tells me I should find it at
http://mjpeg.sourceforge.net ... but either I am blind or it is not there :(

Anyone knows where to get the Windows version ?

Kythorn
11-21-2002, 10:20 PM
I don't think there's an "official" windows version, but try

http://themurrays.homeip.net/downloads/tivo/for_windows/

It may or may not need cygwin, it's honestly been a really long time since I've tried to use mplex on win32, I usually just do it on a freebsd machine.

Cygwin's at cygwin.com if it's required. You probably only need the dll and not the full package, but I don't have it laying around, so poke around that site.

digitalAir
11-22-2002, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by FredThompson
m2v is mpeg-2
m1v is mpeg-1

DirecTV is not MPEG-2 so there are a lot of things that need to be done to clean up those streams. SA Tivos should be far more compliant.


Ahhh, no...

DirecTV IS mpeg2... It's just a slightly misbehaved mpeg2... :)

Mainly because of the variable frame rate, but mpeg2 none-the-less...

Most of the multiplexers seem to get confused with the variable frame rates...

skorous
11-22-2002, 08:25 AM
DA,

In a strict constructionist sense since MPEG-2 doesn't allow for VFR and DTV is VFR couldn't one make a case that DTV isn't MPEG-2? :D Sorry, couldn't help myself...

Skorous

psxjunky
11-22-2002, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Kythorn
I don't think there's an "official" windows version, but try

http://themurrays.homeip.net/downloads/tivo/for_windows/

It may or may not need cygwin, it's honestly been a really long time since I've tried to use mplex on win32, I usually just do it on a freebsd machine.

Cygwin's at cygwin.com if it's required. You probably only need the dll and not the full package, but I don't have it laying around, so poke around that site.


Well, thank you very much sir :)

I am feeling slightly better now for not being able to find the Win32 version :p

digitalAir
11-22-2002, 09:05 AM
to say that it doesn't "allow for it" would be too strong of a statement... :) more like "didn't expect it" :D

if the standards didn't allow for it then the mpeg decoder chips in our dtv ird's and our dvd players would refuse to play the streams.

either way, each frame and each gop are still encoded using an mpeg2 algorithm.

FredThompson
11-22-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by digitalAir
Ahhh, no...

DirecTV IS mpeg2... It's just a slightly misbehaved mpeg2... :)

Mainly because of the variable frame rate, but mpeg2 none-the-less...

Most of the multiplexers seem to get confused with the variable frame rates...

Ahhh, yes and no...

Can't find anything in the specs about frame rate. Maybe I've missed it. There's a huge slew of information about HOW the compression works. There are also different optional layers to the specs. jdiner made a comment about hardware vs. software clocks for playback and how that affects things. I was sure VFR was not part of the MPEG-2 specs which would make DirecTV MPEG-2-like, not compliant. Yes, the video and audio portions are compressed with compliant algorithms but the stream format is unique.

Bet THIS would help jdiner but the licensing is probably killer:

http://www.oaktech.com/products/teralogic/platforms_software/pdf_docs/TLCougarDirecTV.pdf

Or one of these in a PCI card:

http://www.oaktech.com/products/teralogic/integrated_circuits/pdf_docs/TL851.pdf
http://www.broadcom.com/products/4500.html

IF DirecTV was fully DVB, we could get this stuff using a motorized mount:

http://www.bealenet.com/~jimsat/free_chanel_listing.htm

digitalAir
11-22-2002, 10:54 AM
Well,

it's one thing to say that it's not "mpeg2"; it's another thing altogether to say it's not "mpeg2 standards compliant."

and technically speaking, since there is absolutely no mention (as I understand it) of VFR in the standards docs, then implementing VFR would no be against the standards... as long as no other spec's are violated in the process.

However, in this case the way that VFR was implemented, it does break the standards... IOW, the standards say that the header should say how many frames/sec, and that's how many there should be, but dtv uses that field of the header to represent how many "equivalent" frames/sec.... This is against the standards (as I understand it)...

but I'm just being argumentative, so someone just slap me with a trout or something... ;)

FredThompson
11-22-2002, 11:52 AM
Geez, louise,

When I typed the first comment I thought the transport stream was part of the MPEG-2 specs. It may have been wrong. That I freely admit. Still haven't found an actual, authoritative copy of the full MPEG-2 standard so I can't say either way.

If it's not 100% compliant with the standard, it's not the standard. That's how standards work.

Microsoft uses many file formats that are extensions of a standard. Thus, they are not compliant with the standard and they don't meet the standard.

Same thing here. If VFR isn't permitted by the MPEG-2 standard (if you've got a link to a full copy, please share it) and CBR is, the use of VFR means the file isn't MPEG-2.

If the standard discusses the transport stream and DirecTV's format is not 100% compliant, it isn't an MPEG-2 file. It's a file with MPEG-2 elements. Those are two very different things.

As another example, there are many plastic discs which contain digitized audio with some form of physical copy protection. Those discs violate the audio Compact Disc standard and are NOT compact discs. They have many elements that are the same but they don't meet the complete standard and therefore are not audio compact discs.

Standalone DVD players don't seem to have problems with the files because their clocks are hardware based. That doesn't mean the streams are MPEG-2.

Having said that, it may very well be that what is commonly considered MPEG-2 includes the delivery format and those formats may be de facto or associated standards. Certainly, people who create MPEG-2 editing programs design them to work with the commonly used formats which would mean PAL and NTSC. Neither of those is VFR, nor is the vast majority of AV equipment.

It may very well be that the MPEG-2 standard doesn't specify the formats of the delivery stream.

This thread seems to have taken a turn away from the original post partly because of my comments and partly because of the collective ambiguity of what "MPEG-2" really means vs. common usage of the term.

If you've got a link for the full MPEG-2 specs, please share it.

Kythorn
11-22-2002, 12:28 PM
Doesn't DTVs format predate the official MPEG2 specifications regardless?

As I remember, they went ahead and launched their service while it was still a draft.

skorous
11-22-2002, 12:55 PM
The dangers of being an early adopter.... :)

Skorous

FredThompson
11-22-2002, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Kythorn
Doesn't DTVs format predate the official MPEG2 specifications regardless?

As I remember, they went ahead and launched their service while it was still a draft.

Yup

The packet size is smaller than the rest of the world thinks it should be and there's some extra info stuffed in as well. Dunno if they did that to save $ initially or if they had to get operational to keep their license/bandwidth or what the reasons could have been.

digitalAir
11-22-2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by skorous
The dangers of being an early adopter.... :)


or advantage... :D

anyhow... we're debating semantics here, not technical merits...

so...


UNCLE :) hehe

rd001
11-27-2002, 08:26 AM
I'm going to ask the moderators to establish a theology forum.

skorous
11-27-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by rd001
I'm going to ask the moderators to establish a theology forum.
Ummm... I hope I'm not being obtuse here but "theology"? I don't get it.

Skorous

psxjunky
11-27-2002, 08:40 PM
Thanks very much rc3105 ! Not that I wasn't enjoying the lively discussion on whether DTV MPEG2 is really MPEG2 or not ;) ... but it is nice to be back on topic and get a direct answer to my original question.

Thanks again :D