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matrick
11-25-2002, 12:00 PM
(a long-time lurker speaks) :)

I've found that the "Author DVD" feature of IFOEdit (http://www.doom9.org/software.htm#vobtools) accepts outputs from jdiner's vsplit (MP2 or AC3!) with an A/V Sync offset. It multiplexes and makes a set of VOB's, IFO's and BUP's, which ready to burn to DVD-R. I've had NO compatibility problems so far (I've only tried this with source from DirecTiVo) on several players.

The obvious problem with this is that you cannot edit anything out, but that's more of a personal preference or matter of how much spare time you have. I'm more interested in archiving movies than...

One thing you can do is edit the starting sector in the PGC IFO file to start where you'd like :)

Anyway, just trying to pass on good findings... Maybe this is nothing new, but I'm pretty happy with the ease / speed of making video with this method.

-matrick

ghost_rdr
11-25-2002, 05:01 PM
hey man im just learning this stuff also....i was wondering if maybe you can help me out. can you give a how-to of how you do this and what files you are using please.

Thanks in advance,
Ghost_rdr

zabs
11-25-2002, 06:11 PM
Gentlemen, be sure to check out the Tivo Extraction forum which has split off just recently. That realm was growing large enough to get its own forum dedicated to extraction, muxing, authoring, etc.

matrick
11-26-2002, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by ghost_rdr
can you give a how-to of how you do this and what files you are using please.


ghost,

Use tserver on the tivo & tytool (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=54831) on my PC to get the .ty files onto a PC. I sometimes use AudioCheck (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=61652) to determine whether the audio is Layer II or Dolby Digital. Then use vsplit13 (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=51044) to split the files:

vsplit13 movie.ty movie.m2v movie.m2a
- or for Dolby Digital: -
vsplit13 movie.ty movie.m2v movie.ac3

Then get IFOEdit (available on doom9.org, among other places). When you start IFOEdit, select the "DVD Author" menu and click on "Author new DVD". A new window will pop up with inputs for files and offsets, etc. Select a video file (movie.m2v) and an audio file (movie.m2a or movie.ac3). To set the offset, you must highlight the audio file you've added, and then input your offset.

I've noticed that the offset input is a little buggy and in order to put in a negative number, you should put in the number first, then go over to the left of the field and put a minus :rolleyes:

Anyway, this takes a few minutes to multiplex and a couple minutes to generate .IFO's and .VOB's, and you're ready to use Nero, or whatever you prefer to put these on DVD-R.

I hope this helps,

-matrick

skorous
11-26-2002, 09:59 AM
matrick,

I haven't done anything near exhaustive but I tried IFOedit three or four times on my laptop (with a couple of reboots just in case) and it crashed everytime upon hitting the button to multiplex. Before I put any time in to it, is IFOedit prone to crashing like SpruceUp or is this unusual in your experience?

Skorous

matrick
11-26-2002, 10:09 AM
Skorous,

I've seen IFOEdit crash only under one circumstance: If the output folder doesn't exist it will crash 100% of the time. Someone didn't write in a "catch" yet, but I guess that's why it's version 0.95. So, make sure directories exist first and let me know if that doesn't work... Other than that, it's been fairly stable.

-matrick

skorous
11-26-2002, 05:31 PM
Hmmm, I just clicked the little selector button to choose it through the GUI so it was there. I'll try just dumping to c:\ and see what happens. Thanks for the clue and I'll let you know.

Skorous

ardvark45
11-26-2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by matrick
(a long-time lurker speaks) :)

The obvious problem with this is that you cannot edit anything out, but that's more of a personal preference or matter of how much spare time you have. I'm more interested in archiving movies than...

-matrick


Yes Ifoedit is a great tool. I've used it regularly for ripping DVD's but have just got it working for authoring DVD's from Tivo ouput over the last couple of days. And I am glad to say Matrick you are wrong that Ifoedit cannot be used to edit stuff out.

What you need to do is to create Chapter points in your Vob output. I use mpeg2vcr to view my .m2v file created with Vsplit and locate frame accurate positioning of points where I want to put Chapter points using the time counter of mpeg2vcr. The frame numbers are put in a text file called CellTimes.txt in which is inserted in the option in Ifoedit called Scene Changes / chapters before authoring the .m2v and .m2a files to create Vob files. The Vob files are then created with Chapter points and by positioning the Chapter points around unwanted bits of video such as adverts etc these Chapters can then be ripped out using Smartripper. The Vob files can then be reauthored again to generate a completely edited DVD :) :) :)

ardvark45

FreydNot
11-29-2002, 03:45 AM
Any tricks to getting more then one program on a DVD?

hancocks
11-29-2002, 11:48 AM
FreydNot,

I was wondering the same thing. Yup, I've burned three DVD-RWs in a row through this process, and they've all worked (in my $58 Apex from Wal-you-know-who. Very satisfying.
Now, how to use IFOEdit (if possible) to cram more than one on a DVD? Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the .ifo layouts (yet) to determine what makes up chapters, etc., but I'm hoping that putting multiples on a DVD (with a front-end menu, of course) is easy to do. Anyone?

- hancocks

ardvark45
11-29-2002, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by FreydNot
Any tricks to getting more then one program on a DVD?

Yes, the Vob files from each program can be combined:


Convert the ty files to .m2v and m2a for each of the programs you have. Then separately use Ifoedit to prepare the vob files for each of the shows, using celltimes to mark chapter points and then Smartripper to remove the unwanted chapters (containing adverts or other wanted video). The vob files then be combined using a program called Filemerger available from http://fysx.acwu.com drag and drop each of files to want to combine over the gui interface in the correct order that you want then combined. This will output one large vob combined file. This file then be split into 1GB DVD compliant chunks using the VObextras option in Ifoedit (strip stream, correct vob unit, create new ifo all selected) and then burntto your DVD.

I have combined vob files from 3 different shows in one step using Filemerger, presumably you can do more if you want

:) :) :)

Hi8
11-29-2002, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by ardvark45


I have combined vob files from 3 different shows in one step using Filemerger, presumably you can do more if you want

:) :) :)

there is a MUCH easier way, if you can get your hands on the latest copy of IFOEdit (.096B1) - it allows multiple title sets or VOBIDs.

works perfectly. I have a default celltimes.txt that has a chapter point created every 10min. I just leave the frame values in there to go out past the length of the movie, ie. it's frames that would be for say a 2.5hour movie.

I really don't care about having specific locations, I just want a quick fast/back<->forth access around the disc. IFOEdit will also create chapter breaks at the Tile Set divisions, making it easy to find the beginning of the second or third (or more) titles.

I can't wait till there is a simple menu method included, I'm sure it will be a feature soon. Derrow is a Magician! Donate to his efforts and you will always be informed of the latest versions and betas available for testing.

<edit>
I want to correct a mistake - or mis-nomer. the beta IFOEdit does NOT create multiple Title Sets, but creates "multiplexed" Title Sets, or "set" it will combine multiple sources into one set.
</edit>

hancocks
11-30-2002, 10:58 AM
Hi8,

Thanks for the tip on IFOEdit's 0.96B1 beta (I paid for access, and how could one spend one's money better than on Derrow, I don't know). Derrow's pretty amazing. I'm in the middle of a three-show Nova burn right now, but the setup was totally cool. We'll see how it comes out. But the setup was totally easy. I can see where this is all going. I didn't put in any chapter markers with the celltimes file, but that's the next trick. All I really want is nothing fancy -- just the easiest way to pull stuff off and archive it with titles (and potentially chapter markers for ease of navigation, such as at the 10-minute marks as you suggested.

So: pull stuff off TiVo (SA in my case) w/Tytool, stuff the video and audio files into IFOEdit under titles of my choice, pick a destination directory, and go. Burn to suit on DVD, until lightly browned.

IFOEdit hasn't complained about either video bitrates or audio in the wrong format...This is almost really easy now...

- Stu

Hi8
11-30-2002, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by hancocks
Hi8,

Thanks for the tip on IFOEdit's 0.96B1 beta (I paid for access, and how could one spend one's money better than on Derrow, I don't know). Derrow's pretty amazing. I'm in the middle of a three-show Nova burn right now, but the setup was totally cool. We'll see how it comes out. But the setup was totally easy. I can see where this is all going. I didn't put in any chapter markers with the celltimes file, but that's the next trick. All I really want is nothing fancy -- just the easiest way to pull stuff off and archive it with titles (and potentially chapter markers for ease of navigation, such as at the 10-minute marks as you suggested.

So: pull stuff off TiVo (SA in my case) w/Tytool, stuff the video and audio files into IFOEdit under titles of my choice, pick a destination directory, and go. Burn to suit on DVD, until lightly browned.

IFOEdit hasn't complained about either video bitrates or audio in the wrong format...This is almost really easy now...

- Stu


Finally! somebody else can see what I see!

Enjoy... yeah you MUST use the celltimes.txt to truely take advantage of this Holy Grail!

cut & paste this into a celltimes.txt file :

6859
11092
15878
19808
22294
29175
39176
44317
47311
51159
61775
66599
70075
75971
80267
83965
86289
93121
99632
102402
107499
114706
124117
129301
132750
138366
143087
148626
153335
157231
160877
168261

hancocks
11-30-2002, 02:34 PM
Hi8,

I had one bad remux in the middle of my three Novas, but it could easily be a bad stream (for whatever reason). I'm moving forward, in any case. And thanks for the celltimes file! I did notice that IFOEdit seems to put tick marks in at regular intervals anyway, just not quite with the granularity of 10-minute intervals.
I realized after I tried it that I'm still lacking a front-end menu. In your experience, is this something I'm not doing correctly, or (more likely) is it that there is no facility (yet) for that? I think I could cob one together with other tools and patch, but I thought I'd ask first. Hey, all I would like is a nice simple small button/text menu, say, with a limit of 12 items (could be more, but I thought I'd refrain from being greedy), and the ability to map a limited-length character string to the show involved.
As I said, is this something I've missed? I can change the titles in IFOEdit, but the text doesn't stick.

- Stu

Hi8
11-30-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by hancocks
Hi8,

I had one bad remux in the middle of my three Novas, but it could easily be a bad stream (for whatever reason). I'm moving forward, in any case. And thanks for the celltimes file! I did notice that IFOEdit seems to put tick marks in at regular intervals anyway, just not quite with the granularity of 10-minute intervals.
I realized after I tried it that I'm still lacking a front-end menu. In your experience, is this something I'm not doing correctly, or (more likely) is it that there is no facility (yet) for that? I think I could cob one together with other tools and patch, but I thought I'd ask first. Hey, all I would like is a nice simple small button/text menu, say, with a limit of 12 items (could be more, but I thought I'd refrain from being greedy), and the ability to map a limited-length character string to the show involved.
As I said, is this something I've missed? I can change the titles in IFOEdit, but the text doesn't stick.

- Stu

hum .. re-mux? you are going directly from the .m2v & .m2v files that vsplit created ? no? .. never had that happen to me.

anyway .. no there is no menu yet, I'm sure it's around the corner, Derrow, is busy at the moment, I think he's working on DVDxCopy to enable Nero API hooks... IFOEdit is his baby so I'm sure he will get to it. He is FAST ... but spread thin at the moment... hang in there...

not to drag on, as this may be off topic.... a bit.:confused:

FreydNot
11-30-2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Hi8
not to drag on, as this may be off topic.... a bit.:confused:

Burning DVD's with Ifoedit is most definately a topic that deserves its own thread.

bronco13
12-03-2002, 02:59 AM
I'm having a problem using celltimes.txt to set markers around commercials and unwanted sections of video.

- I use MPEG2VCR to open a .m2v file.

- I click on the (+) symbol under the timecode and then choose 'frame' under Format.

- I create a celltimes.txt from the resulting points I want to cut out.

- I use IFOEdit to author a new DVD and then specify the newly created celltimes.txt

- Once the VOB is created I click on the VTS_01_0.IFO in the tree to verify my cells and they are OFF!

In my celltimes.txt my first three cells are:
90
14500
18763

In the resulting program chain they are:
126
14529
18777

When I burn and play the DVD, they are in fact off. I've tried 0.95 and 0.96b of IFOEdit and I get the same results...

Is there any reason why IFOEdit seems to be padding anywhere from 5 to 45 frames to my celltimes.txt????

Does this have anything to do with the whole I-Frame thingy???

Anyone???

bronco13
12-03-2002, 03:53 AM
O.K., I think I've partially answered my own question.

For some reason IFOEdit seems to pad the frame number specified in the celltimes.txt by a certain number.

The number of frames padded ALWAYS is a multiple of 3 (9,21,30,33...). This makes sense since IFOEdit recognizes the stream as being 30 frames per second...

O.K... Any ideas on either why this is happening or how to predict the multiple of 3 that is padded???


Anyone???

RxMan
12-03-2002, 09:15 AM
Does this method have any advantages over using SpruceUP to create and burn the DVDs? Menus, chapter points, etc are all available using Spruce.

hancocks
12-03-2002, 10:54 AM
Possible advantages over Spruceup...

1. Fast and easy.

2. While won't provide menus, will (on the fly) convert the audio to DVD spec.

- Stu

mikertx
12-04-2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by RxMan
Does this method have any advantages over using SpruceUP to create and burn the DVDs? Menus, chapter points, etc are all available using Spruce.

I don't want to remux since my Apex DVD player
is happy with my SA Tivo high quality settings,
32KHz audio and all. SpruceUp does not seem
to like out-of-dvd-spec video files.

I agree with the others. I sent Derrow $5 so that
I could try 96b1, best 5 bucks I've spent in a long
time.

--mikertx

laserfan
12-05-2002, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by RxMan
Does this method have any advantages over using SpruceUP to create and burn the DVDs? Menus, chapter points, etc are all available using Spruce. I have NOT had consistent good luck with using SpruceUp to BURN dvds. In fact I accidentally hit the "make dvd" button or whatever it is in SU just the other day, and the process terminated abnormally again and I ended-up with a coaster.

This has happened several times now, and rather than fret about what in SU might cause this, I have instead adopted a process of:

1. Use SU to author even if only as a "1st play" (no menu) program
2. Test the resulting VIDEO_TS folder using in my case DVD Station/Hollywood Plus player & card on my PC
3. Use Nero in DVD UDF/ISO form to burn the VIDEO_TS to DVD

I have never had a failure using Nero Burning Rom myself, and SU has always done well w/VIDEO_TS, but sometimes fails in the final burn-to-dvd step. YMMV

RxMan
12-05-2002, 11:58 AM
Yeah. I have trouble with the actual burn step in SPruce. I use it for all the other stuff then use another program to burn. I just don't see why this thread is considered to be any 'advancement' of what we were doing 6 months ago.

captain_video
12-05-2002, 12:10 PM
So far (knock on wood) I've never burned a coaster with SpruceUp. I'm looking to try the method using IFOEdit (I sent my 5 bucks to Derrow already) but for the moment I still use SpruceUp. I guess it's kind of like an old shoe - it still fits and feels comfortable. I've made generic menus for movies and several specific menus and submenus for shows that I'm archiving. While I would like to be able to edit out commercials eventually, I feel that the need for creating menus and being able to access individual shows on a DVD is of primary importance to me. Still, I'm open to any new method that will enhance my enjoyment of the hobby. I'll reserve final judgement until I give it a try.

Hi8
12-06-2002, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by RxMan
Yeah. I have trouble with the actual burn step in SPruce. I use it for all the other stuff then use another program to burn. I just don't see why this thread is considered to be any 'advancement' of what we were doing 6 months ago.

you have apearently NOT tried authoring with IFOEdit 096B1.
You will first hand understand why it is an advancement. I've extracted 3 movies via TyTool5, split with vsplit13c - authored with IFOEdit - and burned with DVDBurn (nero API) in less than three hours - I fit 4hours of DSS quality on one DVD-RW.

83 chapters , no menus, no editting however. Not the best solution for content with commericals but, premimun channel movies, it ROCKS! I will not even have to consider a "b" drive expansion - I also HIGHLY recommend DVDBurn from Derrow as well.

I also used Spruce-Up in the past, however I never cared for the crash fake-out DVDPatcher method, seemed like such a kludge to me - but when there was nothing better at the time...

Spruce-Up never would burn to my pany A04, that was another issue.

captain_video
12-06-2002, 08:55 AM
OK, I tried my first attempt at using IFOEdit .096B last night and I have a couple of questions.

1. I used the extract and split method via Tytool5 instead of splitting as a separate step using vsplit13 like some of you apparently do. What is the difference and/or advantage in doing it this way?

2. I created my VOB files and such using the DVD Author method with IFOEdit as outlined in one of the above posts. There was no mention as to how these files should be burned to a DVD so I inserted them in a VIDEO_TS folder and burned using Nero (UDF/ISO). The resultant DVD did absolutely nothing when inserted in my DVD player. I couldn't get it to play no matter what I tried. It's a new Sony 715 that plays all my other TyDVDs without a problem. Should I just be burning the files straight to the DVD without inserting them in a VIDEO_TS folder? The VOB files played back OK in Cinemaster so they appear to be muxed properly.

cwingert
12-06-2002, 01:15 PM
To those who are sucessfully working with it. Could you guys tell me which version of Windows you are using?

I do
IFOEdit -> DVD Author -> Author New DVD ->
Add my m2v and m2a. Hit OK.

IFOEdit crashes.

I am running W2K.

Any pointers appreciated.

Hi8
12-06-2002, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by captain_video
OK, I tried my first attempt at using IFOEdit .096B last night and I have a couple of questions.

1. I used the extract and split method via Tytool5 instead of splitting as a separate step using vsplit13 like some of you apparently do. What is the difference and/or advantage in doing it this way?

2. I created my VOB files and such using the DVD Author method with IFOEdit as outlined in one of the above posts. There was no mention as to how these files should be burned to a DVD so I inserted them in a VIDEO_TS folder and burned using Nero (UDF/ISO). The resultant DVD did absolutely nothing when inserted in my DVD player. I couldn't get it to play no matter what I tried. It's a new Sony 715 that plays all my other TyDVDs without a problem. Should I just be burning the files straight to the DVD without inserting them in a VIDEO_TS folder? The VOB files played back OK in Cinemaster so they appear to be muxed properly.

you should use the DVD Video "choice" if you are using Nero -- It creates the format that your player needs to see. I'm guessing it just see files and not anything that it thinks should be a DVD.

I do recommend using a DVD-RW until you get your feet wet, saves a few $ in trial runs.

not sure about the other step I never used the intergrated splitting method within TyTool --

- to answer the other question ... about IFOEdit crashing - I don't know what could be happening, I'm also using Win2k any it has NEVER failed for me in any way. strange...

mikertx
12-06-2002, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by cwingert
To those who are sucessfully working with it. Could you guys tell me which version of Windows you are using?


I'm using Win2K with SP2 installed.

--mikertx

captain_video
12-06-2002, 03:21 PM
you should use the DVD Video "choice" if you are using Nero -- It creates the format that your player needs to see.

I tried using the DVD Video option once before in Nero. Only the Apex players would recognize that format. I have used UDF/ISO for every other DVD I've ever burned in Nero and they play in every current player I've tried them in. I'll give it a shot tonite with a DVD-RW and see what happens. I used DVD-RW discs for everything unless it's something I want to archive permanently. For those discs I use SpruceUp because I need the menu creation option available to me.

From what I remember about Tytool, I believe Tytool5 has vsplit13 incorporated into it. I can't see any reason for extracting and splitting separately, unless you want to play around with the ty file on your PC. Doing it on the fly is much quicker.

I have to say that so far I'm not impressed with using IFOEdit over SpruceUp. It doesn't seem to process the m2a and m2v files any quicker than SpruceUp (i.e. muxing vs. compiling)except for the fact that it does not require importing the patched files before you author them.

Does anyone have an answer to my question regarding whether or not I need to have a VIDEO_TS folder with the IFO, BUP, and VOB files in it for burning to DVD or do I just burn the bare files directly to disc?

laserfan
12-06-2002, 04:15 PM
I'm quite certain you need to include a VIDEO_TS folder in your burn (w/all files enclosed therein).

Most (all?) authoring programs also make an empty AUDIO_TS folder but to my knowledge players don't care about this one. Still, you can add one by hand if you're burning w/Nero for example.

Incidentally, my first attempts at DVD burning were with -RW discs, which subsequently played fine in my player (an early Sony), but when I burned my 1st -R disc I was dismayed to learn it would not play in the Sony! The opposite of what is considered "more compatible" (i.e. -R is supposed to be "more compatible" than -RW). Go figure. I don't take anything about this stuff for granted anymore.

captain_video
12-06-2002, 05:15 PM
I did an extensive hands-on comparison of set top DVD players after burning my first DVDs. I was rather dismayed to learn that my Toshiba would not recognize either DVD-R or -RW discs. I initially invested in a cheap Apex AD1100W player but the construction was so cheap I was almost embarrased to have it sitting in my system. I later purchased a new Sony DVP-NS715P progressive scan player, after testing it with my TyDVDs, of course.

cwingert
12-06-2002, 06:14 PM
I am using the same version of Windows.

Only other thing I could think of, is MPEG size/bit rate.

Is there anyone out there who has used IFOEdit successfully and has not mucked with the bit rates on the TiVo (or re-encoded)?

Thanks

Hi8
12-06-2002, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by cwingert
I am using the same version of Windows.

Only other thing I could think of, is MPEG size/bit rate.

Is there anyone out there who has used IFOEdit successfully and has not mucked with the bit rates on the TiVo (or re-encoded)?

Thanks


to be clear ... all of this is done with tystreams created directly from DTIVO not SA TiVos (at least in my case)

Hi8
12-06-2002, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by captain_video
I did an extensive hands-on comparison of set top DVD players after burning my first DVDs. I was rather dismayed to learn that my Toshiba would not recognize either DVD-R or -RW discs. I initially invested in a cheap Apex AD1100W player but the construction was so cheap I was almost embarrased to have it sitting in my system. I later purchased a new Sony DVP-NS715P progressive scan player, after testing it with my TyDVDs, of course.

Hummm.. a SONY! wow.. let me check my full-length mirrow .. I think I have it tatooed on my ASS!

really SONY that works?

hancocks
12-06-2002, 10:22 PM
Hi8,

All of my successful IFOEdit jobs have been from two or perhaps three different resolutions from the TiVo, and my TiVo is SA.

- Stu

laserfan
12-07-2002, 09:42 AM
I remuxed my m2v and m2a files for DVD using IfoEdit .95 for the 1st time the other day, and it worked fine, if a bit slow (seemed slow compared to SpruceUp anyway). Using W2000, no crashing.

BTW captain last week I was at my sister's who just got a 715, and my homemade DVD-Rs played just as spectacularly well on IT as on my own, relatively new 655. I've owned the "flagship" DVP-S7000 since 1997 or 98, and have been extremely impressed to note that this latest generation actually LOOKS better! Besides the other nifty gizmos that come along w/it, my DVDs look smoother and more natural than on the older player, which was considered "the best of the best" for at least several years after the launch of DVD. So "you done good"! The only rap I can make against these new Sony players is that they insist on compliant-everything. I can't play any games w/my programs such as putting 32kHz audio onto a DVD (it plays, but the audio is still expected to be 48kHz so sounds "chipmunky"). Also the SVCDs I've burned tend to "skip & jump" if the bitrate exceeds std 2.6Mbps by very much. But in general I am very happy w/my player fer sher.

captain_video
12-07-2002, 11:01 AM
I authored a new DVD using IFOEdit last night and burned it with Nero using the DVD Video option as suggested by Hi8. The DVD played fine in my Sony without a problem. I decided to try another burn but this time I included the CellTimes.txt file with the chapter stops provided by Hi8. The DVD seemed to play just fine but I noticed that when I hit the chapter skip the picture would skip around the chapter stop and became jerky for a couple of seconds before finally settling down. A couple of times, the video froze at the new chapter stop and wouldn't continue on without hitting fast forward to free it up. The elapsed time counter on my DVD player went batshit and just toggled between a couple of different settings without ever progressing. The chapter counter did increment when changing chapters.

IFOEdit indeed has promise but for for now it seems to still be a work in progress. Compared to using SpruceUp it seems to be a giant step backwards. I'm processing DTivo streams but SA Tivo users may find this program more desirable since it appears to be more forgiving of the audio and video formats presented to it. I don't like the fact that you can't add menus nor do I like the fact that you have no control over when the DVD begins playing (it starts as soon as the player recognizes it). The other problems I outlined above make it a totally unacceptable alternative to using SpruceUp, at least for me. Perhaps there is an incompatibility with my Sony player but I'm thinking not. I don't see any real advantage in how much faster it is to process the video for authoring. If I was that concerned about how long the process takes I'd invest in a newer, faster burner (my Pioneer A03 only burns at 1.1X speed).

If you guys are so concerned about the time to process the tystreams to DVD, why are you splitting the tystream using vsplit as a separate step? The vsplit function is part of Tytool and does it on the fly (way faster than doing it in two parts). I believe Tytool5 has the latest iteration of vsplit13 (but probably not 13c) incorporated in it unless someone can tell me different. I realize I'm playing the Devil's advocate here but don't let that dissuade anyone from searching out new methods of processing and burning tystreams to DVD. If Derrow can get some of the bugs worked out (it is, after all, a Beta version) and add a menu feature, it would definitely be an attractive alternative to SpruceUp or DVD Maestro. But until that happens, I think I'll stick with SpruceUp. Like the man says, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

ghost_rdr
12-08-2002, 04:19 PM
Can someone elaborate on the celltimes.txt please...where do i put that file.... i was using ifoedit to make the .img file to burn...but would like to find a way to edit out commecials. i was gonna try out mpeg2vcr. but demo wont do mpeg2 and 250$ is a little steep for me. anyone have a better way to edit m2v files? and if i dont use the ifoedit to make img file to burn...how do i burn .vob and ifo files with the celltimes.txt file in nero or anything else?

Thanks in advance all, you sharing your knowledge has brought me and many others a long way in this hobby.

Ghost_rdr

Hi8
12-08-2002, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by ghost_rdr
Can someone elaborate on the celltimes.txt please...where do i put that file.... i was using ifoedit to make the .img file to burn...but would like to find a way to edit out commecials. i was gonna try out mpeg2vcr. but demo wont do mpeg2 and 250$ is a little steep for me. anyone have a better way to edit m2v files? and if i dont use the ifoedit to make img file to burn...how do i burn .vob and ifo files with the celltimes.txt file in nero or anything else?

Thanks in advance all, you sharing your knowledge has brought me and many others a long way in this hobby.

Ghost_rdr


celltimes.txt is used and selected during the DVDAuthor method. It is a file that just contains frame numbers consecutively one on a line by itself ... ie...

10000
20000
40000
50000
60000
70000
80000
90000


it is used during the TitleSet creation to set chapter points;

ghost_rdr
12-08-2002, 08:51 PM
Thx ,

I got the celltimes file inserted and it works great. If i could only find a way to edit out commecials i'd be in good shape, Any ideas?

Thanks again,
Ghost_rdr

finster869
12-08-2002, 09:28 PM
IFOEdit Crashing
I am using the same version of Windows.

Only other thing I could think of, is MPEG size/bit rate.

Is there anyone out there who has used IFOEdit successfully and has not mucked with the bit rates on the TiVo (or re-encoded)?

Thanks

CWINGERT---

Make sure that you are not trying to save the file into a directory that has not yet been created. That will make IFOEDIT crash. The target folder must already exist.

el jefe
12-09-2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by ghost_rdr
Can someone elaborate on the celltimes.txt please...where do i put that file.... i was using ifoedit to make the .img file to burn...but would like to find a way to edit out commecials. i was gonna try out mpeg2vcr. but demo wont do mpeg2 and 250$ is a little steep for me.

I have pretty much the same question.
ardvark45 earlier in this thread had said he used mpeg2vcr to get the data for the celltimes file, but I don't wanna pay the $250 to use the program just for that. Is there any other way to get this information?
I tried previewing the file in IFOEDIT and it gives frame numbers, but when I reimport with the frame numbers I want it doesn't match where I wanted the chapter (not just by a few frames, but off by 8 or so minutes).

Hi8
12-09-2002, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by ghost_rdr
Thx ,

I got the celltimes file inserted and it works great. If i could only find a way to edit out commecials i'd be in good shape, Any ideas?

Thanks again,
Ghost_rdr

I think that IS "THE" one thing most people are hoping that jdiner can provide in his efforts to improve TyTool - the debate was where and how to do it ... ie... on the TiVo itself, with the remote, or PC application/software based - which I think he has gone forward with. ???

Not sure where that is or if and when it will be available. Many things have been discussed, editting, VOB creation, MUXing, etc..

I have stumbled on what may prove to also be an issue. "transcoding" . I've started to see changes in the way set-top DVD players handle discs authored from the 480x480 res, DTiVo streams... APEX which I thought would play anything , is now not supporting that in their AD-1200 player. I'm not sure if they are sticking to the standard more, ie perhaps changing mfgr. of their decoders or what? But I was disapointed to find out that ALL the discs that play perfectly in my older APEX don't in the new.

matrick
12-09-2002, 11:45 AM
After doing this many times, I've found something that really works for me, including editing and celltimes, but NOT with AC3 audio (this due to most encoders not encoding with .ac3 files). This is very time consuming, however it does produce a perfectly edited DVD with chapters where you like them:

1. TyTool -> .ty file on disk.
2. Split the .ty with vsplit: .m2v, .m2a (note offset, used in step 4).
3. I also convert the .m2a -> .wav and keep both.
4. Mux the .m2v and .m2a together into .vob files with IFOEdit as specified above (use the offset in step 2).
5. I use DVD2AVI to provide a .d2v file with the .vob files. In this stage, I set the first track to demux under the Audio menu, and set forced film under the video menu (providing the FILM% is greater than 90%, if not, read up on deinterlacing on doom9.org). After running a small test run, I disable audio track demux, but note the a/v sync offset on the output of track 1 for the test run (will be used in step 7).
6. I personally use an avisynth .avs file (for speed) to export the .d2v file to VirtualDub, but you could use the VFAPI plugin to do this as well (but I've heard it's slower).
7. In VirtualDub, I load the .avs file, open the .wav file created in step 3 and input the offset from step 5. I interleave every 500ms.
8. I then find key frames where I'd like to edit and remove unwanted footage. When it's all the way I want it, I save my settings in the File menu (sometimes you need to restart virtual dub, and it helps to not have to redo these steps every time. It also preserves the correct celltimes based on frame cuts, etc). Then I slowly go through the whole video and find frame numbers for chapters where I'd like them to go, IFOEdit does NOT like the first chapter to be 0, so start with the "second" chapter and assume the the first chapter will start a 0. I save these numbers into a celltimes.txt like this:

----
1234
2345
6789
10240
------

9. I start a VirtualDub frameserver: File -> Start Frameserver. This outputs .vdr file, which can be easily loaded by most encoders.
10. Encoding. I use CCE-SP (this is not a free program and you will need to acquire this on your own) and would highly recommend it. If you're willing to spend a few hours really learning about it, it will really pay off. I personally use a manual 2-step encoding process. The first is a 1-pass VBR with no audio or video outputs, just the .vaf (a video information/bitrate file). The second is a 1-pass multi-pass vbr with audio and video outputs. I use elementary stream outputs, which leaves me with .mpv and .mpa files. I highly recommend using bitrate viewer for reading settings from the original .vob files before you input any settings here.
11. Pulldown. I use pulldown.exe to convert the .mpv file to .m2v file (this converts the frame rate from 23.9fps back to 29.97). I then multiplex those two files and the celltimes.txt back into .vob, .ifo and .bup files for writing to DVD+RW and, if I like the way it plays, DVD-R.

This completely works and leaves you with a proper DVD backup of whatever you want. I've tested this a few times, and sync is preserved pretty well with this method.

Almost EVERY program talked about here is available on either doom9 (http://www.doom9.org) or this site. There's excellent guides on the site for CCE and De-Interlacing, among other things.

I hope this helps some people who have enough time on their hands :D

-matrick

ghost_rdr
12-09-2002, 12:47 PM
do any of you guys hang out in a irc room at all. if so can you please list here or pm me with info. would be grest to be able to chat with some of you.

Ghost_rdr

hancocks
12-09-2002, 01:18 PM
My work in progress:

- Tytool the files across into m2a/m2v files
- IFOEdit author the stuff
- Edit out commercials with M2-Edit (can edit .vobs, or seems to)
- Burn with Nero

Chapter points are "random" (make something up at regular intervals). Not a perfect solution (yet). But no commercials.

- Stu

ghost_rdr
12-09-2002, 01:38 PM
thanks i downlaoded the m2-edit 5 pro, pretty cool proggie, I have to learn how to use it. then i saw price. over a grand..not exactly whats feesable. unless you have aversion you would like to share with me ( in which case pm me).

Does it work good though for commercail editing? I dont think im gonna mess with it cause i cant afford it anyway.

thanks though
Ghost_rdr

ghost_rdr
12-16-2002, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by hancocks
My work in progress:

- Tytool the files across into m2a/m2v files
- IFOEdit author the stuff
- Edit out commercials with M2-Edit (can edit .vobs, or seems to)
- Burn with Nero

Chapter points are "random" (make something up at regular intervals). Not a perfect solution (yet). But no commercials.

- Stu

can you post exactly how your doin this in m2-edit? the commecial edits i mean .. please. I can make clips of the video but then after i move them to composer i dont know how to save them or how to mark the chapters. please help

Ghost_rdr

hancocks
12-25-2002, 01:39 PM
Ghost_rdr,

Can't speak about marking the chapters (it's really only an editing tool, and not an authoring one -- if there's a way to mark chapters in M2-Edit, I don't know what it is), but here's what I do:

- pull in the full show in .mpg format (some sort of Tytool/vsplit/etc. extraction/remuxing -- I usually remux with TMGPEnc).
- Edit out the good stuff (trim them out). Then, you can drag then down to Composer (or whatever the hell that bottom app's called). Actually, I find it easier (not sure why) to trim out the (say) 5 parts of (say) JunkYard Wars, and then pull them individually back in and drag them to same. they show up graphically as ready to concatenate. Then, "generate" will put them back together in a totally crap-free .mpg.
Authoring? So far, I'm using MyDVD, but there's got to be better to be had. MyDVD looks like it's got a lot of limitations, but good for quick and dirty.
One complaint: 2GB shows pulled into MyDVD show up as almost 3GB shows when in the app, so I get limited to one 1-hour show per. Hardly worth it for NTSC signal. I'm pretty sure it's an artifact of MyDVD, since it doesn't happen when I re-mux with IFOEdit, but then, I can't have separate shows/chapters, etc....sigh...

- Stu

kurjiboo
12-31-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by bronco13
O.K., I think I've partially answered my own question.

For some reason IFOEdit seems to pad the frame number specified in the celltimes.txt by a certain number.

The number of frames padded ALWAYS is a multiple of 3 (9,21,30,33...). This makes sense since IFOEdit recognizes the stream as being 30 frames per second...

O.K... Any ideas on either why this is happening or how to predict the multiple of 3 that is padded???


Anyone???

I'm having the same problem using version .95, but i've reluctantly sent my money for the beta. Any luck getting the times right?

jmayes
01-02-2003, 08:58 AM
Here is a process I have had limited success with which provides spruce-up's menus and vob's with no comm's.


Use SP the normal way, mark all comm's beg and end with chapter points.

Use smartripper to extract good chapters from the vob's

Combine your new no comm vob's with the ifo's that SU created.

Use IFO edit "get vts sectors" to clean up.

Burn.

This gives me what I want and for the most part it ploys fine, but because timestamps are not completely right in the vob's ff/rw functions cause looping. Just playing in normal speed seems to work. Chapter points work fine.

And here is a bone for all you that need a extra good DVD player for all your burn's. I am using a Sony 200 disk DVD changer CX850 which plays TiVo DVD's GREAT!!! You can find them on Ebay all the time for $250 or so. This rig is the cat's meow for keeping and playing our homemade DVD's.

Be sure to use Nero in the ISA/UDF mode, that is the only way the Sony will play, also I am using +RW and +R media, don't have a -RW burner to try, it may not work with those??

Anyone game to figure out how to use IFOedit to fix the timecode problems my method creates?

Great work guys (and gals)!
Jmayes

Barrett
01-02-2003, 08:45 PM
Why does everyone extract the file from their tivo as a TY, and then use vsplit on it? why not just use tytool to automatically do that so you get the m2v and m2a file on the hard drive, am i missing something here?

hancocks
01-02-2003, 09:07 PM
Barrett,

I'm not sure of the answer to that one, since I'm doing as you mentioned. The only thought I had is that the latest versions of vsplit are not incorporated into TyTool5, and there may be some splits which work better with the (presumably) later versions of Vsplit.

Chime in, anyone.

- Stu

captain_video
01-02-2003, 09:54 PM
I've wondered that very same thing myself. It seems that some of the whiz kids here haven't figured out that extracting using vsplit method on the fly isn't any different than using the standalone vsplit utility. It takes almost twice as long to extract then split as it does to do it on the fly with Tytool. Vsplit is actually part of Tytool so there's no difference in the way the tystream is split following extraction. Tytool just makes it easier to do it in one step.

daveinfla
01-08-2003, 04:17 PM
Newbie needs help...

I've successfully used TYTool5r2 to extract and split a movie from my DTIVO and then used inoedit to produce files ready to burn with Nero 5.5.

The resulting DVD works on a friends DVD, but it appears my Cyberhome (with latest firmware) doesn't like a DVD without menus. It just locks up reading the DVD and has to be power cycled.

Any ideas?

I have DVDit LE but it appears to require an .mpg file as input and I don't quite understand how to setup TMPGenc, what resolution to choose, etc., even after months of reading this forum. Everyone has a different way to doing thinks, but never really explains the reasons behind it.

How am I suppose to know what resolution to output if I have no idea what the input was? As I've read it can differ from channel to channel. The same goes for sound?

Thanks...

hancocks
01-08-2003, 04:31 PM
Daveinfla,

DVDit is similar to MyDVD, which ain't perfect (believe me), but is OK. Worked great for home video conversion. Unfortunately, TiVo extraction ain't that.

I've had great success with TMPGenc. You need the registered version, however, to do MPEG-2 stuff.

Once that's in place, you can pick the MPEG-2 pick from the menu, and a box opens up. Browse the .m2v and .m2a files, and they'll automatically fill in the out box with a .mpg file.

It's worked really well for me, with the exception that there seem to be certain resolutions and formats I pull off the TiVo that I can't pull into my editor when I use TMPGenc, so I try another method (much crazier, I won't go into here). But the mpegs seem to pull into MyDVD just fine (except that they always claim to eat about 30% more space than they are really occupying, but you can't have everything).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: all I want is:

- Easy TiVo extraction
- easy MPG editing (goodbye commercials)
- easy burning to DVD, with menus. Case closed. Now is that so hard?

Yup.

- Stu

daveinfla
01-08-2003, 05:07 PM
I have a registered copy of TMPGenc, however I don't have a clue what to set the output settings to.

Example:

I've downloaded and split a movie which is in letterbox and Dolby 5.1 and I want to burn it to a DVD.

Do I tell TMPGenc that the output should be NTSC 16:9 (My widescreen supports it) and change the sound to PCM? (or leave the sound at MP1)

Or do I leave the output at 4:3 and leave the sound at MP1? Since I read somewere that everything being broadcast is at 480x480?

Everything I've processed to date with TMPGenc has been larger then a DVD so I've had to manually reduce the size in the final step, hence the quality.

It does produce an mpg that is usable to DVDit, but I still question what settings are correct.

Thanks,

daveinfla
01-27-2003, 09:06 AM
Figured out why my DVD Player wasn't playing the DVD-R's I produced.

Just happened to run across a comment about burning DVD-R's with Nero on the vcdhelp.com website and it did the trick for me.

When burning DVD-R's with NERO pick DVD UDF format from the wizard, NOT DVD VIDEO OR DVD UDF/ISO. Then just copy your VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS (empty but I put it on anyways) structures into the cue area, make sure UDF verion 1.02 is selected on the UDF configuration tab NOT 1.05 and burn baby burn!!!

vcdhelp.com mentioned that most new DVD Players support UDF 1.05, but older players (and my Cyberhome 500) only support UDF version 1.02. The tell tail that this is the issue is the dreaded "disc error" message.

Here's my proceedure for extracting that works everytime:

1) Extract with TYTOOL.

2) Split with TYTOOL (Spliting on the fly doesn't always work for me so I do it in two steps)
If TYTOOL has issues finding the audio header I set the initial jump point to 75 or 100.

3) Use DVD Author mode of ifoedit, including the celltimes.txt described elsewhere in this thread, to create the DVD structure.

4) Burn to DVD-R with the proceedure described above.

Works everytime, not converting (re-encoding), no patching, it just plain works.

Alternately you can use something like SpruceUP for step 3 to create your own menus. I tried it and had SpruceUP write the directory structure out vs. burning the DVD. Then moved on to step 4 to have NERO burn the DVD.

Dave

Hi8
01-27-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by daveinfla
Figured out why my DVD Player wasn't playing the DVD-R's I produced.

Just happened to run across a comment about burning DVD-R's with Nero on the vcdhelp.com website and it did the trick for me.

When burning DVD-R's with NERO pick DVD UDF format from the wizard, NOT DVD VIDEO OR DVD UDF/ISO. Then just copy your VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS (empty but I put it on anyways) structures into the cue area, make sure UDF verion 1.02 is selected on the UDF configuration tab NOT 1.05 and burn baby burn!!!
Dave

just an FYI - I use the DVD Video setting all the time without any problems. I also happen to notice in the "Write" dialog box while burning it reflects that it IS DVD UDF/ISO mode 1 - I'm not sure but I'm guessing that the "DVD Video" setting checks compliance of file(s) and folder structure.