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DAWG98
12-01-2002, 10:23 PM
Ok. Lots of choices are out there for DVD burners. Sony DRU 500a comes to mind (lots of compatility), Pioneer, etc. I know some variation of this post has been done before, but I wanted a handy and updated version.

With respect to archiving (and playing) Tivo extracted ty streams: what is the best choice out there. Disregarding price (I know it's always a factor but...) and availability (.i.e., sony 500a is on backorder).

Also, which format is the format of preference when burning.

Thanks for any and all input

captain_video
12-02-2002, 10:24 AM
Format preference is more of a personal one as well as what is compatible with your set top DVD player. The industry seems to be pushing for DVD+R/+RW over the DVD-R/-RW format. I'm not all that familiar with the differences between the formats but I'm sure a search of the web will turn up whatever info you need. There aren't that many different choices for DVD burners but the numbers are steadily growing. There was a time when the Pioneer burner was your only choice. Now there are several other models to choose from and the manufacturer's are all taking different sides as to which format they want to support. From what I've seen, the DVD-R/-RW burners and media are less expensive than their +R/+RW counterparts, which makes them a clearcut winner in my mind, at least for the moment. The Sony DRU-500A looks like a clear winner because it supports both formats, making it one of the most flexible drives available. Retail price is $349 and it's not discounted very much, if at all. They're selling for more than retail on ebay (no big surprise there). The Pioneer burners are selling for $250 or less and are a proven commodity as they have been around the longest. I still have an A03 and I love it. It may be slower than the newer models but I've never burned a coaster with it. Based on my experience with CD burners over the years (I started burning CDs with an old Sony CDU-924S caddy-load SCSI burner about 6 or 7 years ago), stick with the brand name models. Stay away from the Hi-Vals and other off-brands and you'll be OK. These brands are most likely built by the major manufacturers and relabeled for sale under a different name but you never know.

goldenrod
12-02-2002, 01:26 PM
I got my Philips DVDRW228 about 2 months ago. I loved it. I burnt over 40 DVDs (Memorx DVD+r & DVD+rw) and have yet to create one coaster. This drive cost about $320 at Circuit City. I initially order the Sony DRU500 for $280 but Dell kept lagging on the shipment so I canceled it.

I really don't care too much about it's DVD-R/-RW writability. From what I read +r/+rw has beter compatibility with standalone DVDrs and writes faster (2.4x compared to 2x/1x). I tested it out with 8 DVD standalone players. 7 played dvd+r fine. 1, however, played +rw (but that's ok; i'm not going to spend upwards of 1 hr to create a DVD and then erase the Dvd+rw). The one that couldn't play the +r was a first generation Toshiba that couldn't even play CDrs.

Tivo SA extracts worked flawlessly on the standalones that could play DVD+R. I had to modify the resolution (720x480) with Tivoweb and I use Tytool to extract and split). Used maestro to create vobs and burned with the latest Nero. I didn't care too much for the software package that came with Philips DVDRW228 (limited Nero, Sonic's MyDVD,etc).

Hope this helps,

-GoldenRod

bato
12-02-2002, 06:39 PM
As you said, lot of choices, so it depends entirely in your needs.

Do you care about burning speed? 1x, 2x, 2.4x, 4x
Do you care about media price? <$1 $1 >$1
Do you care about burner price? $200 $250 $300 $350

And then you decide, buy the burner and some discs and your DVD player can't read the format that you want (RW for tests), so you end changing your player with your sister's :D

I like speed for tests in RW 2x or more
I like price for media -R at 1x for less than $1

So it all depends in what you want.

scarabus
12-02-2002, 11:40 PM
Sony 500 or Pioneer A05 depending on whether you want +R/+RW support or not.

Wooly
12-03-2002, 07:45 PM
In my mind, you have to go with DVD-R/RW, and for that there is really only one choice - a Pioneer A04/A05 (I personally have an A03, and am very pleased).

Now, you're going to say "He owns one, so his decision is biased". Oh contrar (sp). I based my original purchase on some careful thought and I also watched history develop itself again - anyone remember the VHS/Beta debacle?

The lesson learned here is that it is irrelevant what is Marginally better (in the case of Beta, it was at least 50% better with regards to quality compared to VHS). What dictates market capture is Total Cost (meaning, the price of the burner AND the price of the media). Right now, you can have yourself a Pioneer A05 for $269 (includes shipping) from www.avlogic.com (here's the link:

http://avlogic.com/product.cgi?code=11121755

and you can get top notch white-top printable media from www.supermediastore.com for $0.69 each (in fact, they have a great deal to get 100 DVD's with DVD Cases and free shipping for $103, which is not bad at all folks). Here's the link to that deal:

http://www.supermediastore.com/greatcom47dv.html

You'll hear tons of arguements that DVD-R's are not as accepted as DVD+R's (and just as many arguements to the contrary, depending on who you listen to) but in reality they're both about the same, and if you've got a DVD player made in the last 2 years odds are you're golden. If you are unsure, go to www.vcdhelp.com and look it up - it's a great resource.

Given the above information, I have to then look at the media price - DVD-R's for roughly $0.70 each, vs. DVD+R's for roughly $1.79 each (although I hear that you can get some lower-quality blanks for as low as $1.35, just can't remember the vendor).

With DVD-R media prices falling like a stone, I can't see a viable argument to support the DVD+R camp. Heck, even Sony, who was a key supporter of DVD+R, has folded and offered the 500a whose key selling point is dual compatibility. Why offer this drive if they felt that DVD+R/RW was the future?

My opinion, which is based on simple economics, is go with a DVD-R/RW. Unless something changes soon and DVD+R media drops to $0.30 in the VERY NEAR FUTURE you'll see DVD-R become the defacto standard within 1 year's time.

el jefe
12-03-2002, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Wooly
I based my original purchase on some careful thought and I also watched history develop itself again - anyone remember the VHS/Beta debacle?

The lesson learned here is that it is irrelevant what is Marginally better (in the case of Beta, it was at least 50% better with regards to quality compared to VHS).

Beta actually started off with 1 hour tapes as compared to VHS with 2 hour tapes, and the original Betamax could not record as they were afraid of copywrite problems. So VHS actually had better features in the beginning which is a big reason Beta lost the battle.
As with DVD+R and DVD-R, better features are in the +R recorders, but because -R was released first the media/drive prices are cheaper.

I would definately go with the +/- Sony drive as you get the best of both worlds where you can buy cheap media now, and if the price of + media drops you can buy the cheap media and use the better format.

bmm64
01-08-2003, 01:03 AM
Supermedia store is advertising pre-orders of a DW-U10A drive that is "the replacement of the DRU500A".

Cannot find much info about this "new drive", sounds like its the DRU500A with the newer firmware that increases the drive burning rate.

Here's the link:
http://store.yahoo.com/supermediastore/dru500a.html

Sony DW-U10A replacement of DRU500A DVD Burner, DVD+R/RW/-R/RW/CD-R/RW Drive (Recorder)

Pre Order Product will be available by Next Week.

This is the First 4X DVD+R & 4X DVD-R Burner.

Sony DW-U10A the Replacement of DRU500A DVD Burner DVD+R/RW/-R/RW/CD-R/RW Drive (Recorder)

Overview
Sony takes the risk out of buying a DVD recorder by bringing all the popular formats into a single drive. The amazing new DW-U10A Replacement of DRU-500A burns DVD-R/-RW, DVD+RW/+R, and even CD-R/CD-RW discs.

wolkowh
01-08-2003, 04:28 AM
Hi there,
I've burned over 750 DVD-Rs with about 100 coasters in the process (Many are my fault like not hitting "Get VTS Sectors" in IFO Edit or trying to burn, extract, author, and write a document in MS Word at the same time) All I can say is if the + media becomes the future standard, the $ I have saved (over $1.00 per disc) burning the - media will let me buy a + drive and still have over $500 left in my pocket.
Howard

BubbleLamp
01-08-2003, 12:24 PM
Let's stay on topic here, not go down the Beta/VHS trail. The question was asked regarding formats, and indirectly, compatibility. I covered all my bases with a Sony DRU500a. Why, I wanted to test for myself what will/won't work in various players. I also plan to use RW disks for some occasional backup tasks.

I fully expect that when/if a clear winner appears in the format wars, I'll be ready for a 16x or faster burner anyway.

old7
01-08-2003, 03:48 PM
I went thru the same process not to long ago. I decided on the Pioneer A04. Now the A05 is out and at about the same price I paid for mine. The sony was out then, but none of the players I have support + media.

I have found that media plays big part in compatiblitly with some players. I have 4 players, JVC ???, Apex 1200, Sony PS2 and a portable. Some media plays fine in all of them. Some with play in the JVC, Apex, but not in the PS2 or portable. Others play in the Apex, PS2, but not the JVC or portable. One that I can no longer find plays on all if recorded @ 1x, but in all @ 2x. I have some that play fine in my Apex, but not in my co-workers.

Still trying to find the magic media that is cheap and plays everywhere.

Old7

newbie
01-08-2003, 04:03 PM
I know OP said price wasn't a factor but for others: Office Max has been selling the Cendyne for $170 A/R. They ran this special on Black Friday and again last week. The model varies by store, I got a 105 (4X Pioneer).

Great deal.

The Sony is more expensive and basically unavailable.

dtivofun
01-09-2003, 02:25 PM
One of my big concerns in buying a DVD burner is compatibility with my PS2. Which works better in a PS2, DVD-R or DVD+R media? If the answer is DVD+R, then I'll get a Sony 500A, if DVD-R works better, then I'll get the cheaper Pioneer A05.

thanks

michaelk
01-09-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by newbie
I know OP said price wasn't a factor but for others: Office Max has been selling the Cendyne for $170 A/R. They ran this special on Black Friday and again last week. The model varies by store, I got a 105 (4X Pioneer).

Great deal.

The Sony is more expensive and basically unavailable.

just want o add a meto to office max selling the rebranded a05's for $170.

The flyier always says (models may vary) but everyone i have read has always gotten an a05. I suppose some store in the middle of no-where might have an older version in stock so thats why they have that disclaimer (I dont exactly leave in metropolis so i think most must have the newer stock).

For those who dont know- the a05 cydyne box says 4x in a big graphic so you can spot it quickly.

edit...

Wanted to add also that barring a -r or +r not working with your paritcular player, that price is a significant factor in my mind. From what i read on other boards all these drives will be outdated in a year or 2 anyhow when the next gerneation blue ray stuff comes out anyway. Supposedly they will be recordable out of the box. So if i'm gonna buy obsolete stuff i prefer it to be cheap (assuming it can get the job done in the mean time). If you get the a05 for $169 you can afford to get a player that reads the -r's with the savings (my OLD dvd player couldnt even read a cd so i needed to buy a new one anyhow)

BubbleLamp
01-09-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by michaelk
From what i read on other boards all these drives will be outdated in a year or 2 anyhow when the next gerneation blue ray stuff comes out anyway. Supposedly they will be recordable out of the box.

There will always be something better if you want to wait, but I strongly doubt you'll see "affordable" blue laser-based drives in 1-2 years.

alanjudy
01-09-2003, 08:39 PM
I purchased the Sony DRU500 recently and have played with all the different formats. Here is my take.

1. Your choice of format will depend on the compatibility with your set top box. Neither -R or +R are 100% compatible and what you will want to use will be entirely driven by the end device where you want output. Before my purchase I asked friends that had these different formats to lend me disks to help me in my choice. I am lucky that my Sony 550 DVD Settop and my Apex support both, although in my case +R seems better on the Sony 550.

2. Media costs are an issue if you are going to be generating large numbers of DVD's. DVD+R is available for $2, DVD-R is available for $1. If you generate 100 Disks a year you've saved yourself $100. This cost issue may change if DVD+R prices fall to match the -R prices. The Sony DRU 500 doesn't really like the low end DVD-R media, and in fact the only coasters I have created were with DVD-R, so for me I'm not sure I can use the $1 media anyways. I was using CD's with XSVCD format for my archives which generated 3 CD's per 1 hour show. I can fit about 3.75 hours on one DVD or the equivalent of 10 or 11 XSVCD CD's. Media price wise this was about $1.60 worth of CD's... Paying 40 cents more for a DVD+R and not having to get up and change CD's is definately worth it.

3. I've only tested the 2x/2.4x media, I've not yet played with the 4x media (both 4x -R and +R are supported with the DRU500 with the available firmware upgrade). Using the 2x/2.4x media I definately prefer +R... here's why

-RW is still limited to 1x
-R works at 2x

Both -RW and -R must be "finished" which takes considerable longer. If I have only 10 minutes on a DVD then the authoring of the minus formats take longer than the coresponding plus formats.

+RW and +R support 2.4x and don't suffer from the finishing problem. The added advantage here is with +RW which lets you try something out without creating a coaster. Compared with -RW which is only 1x this is a substancial difference... this was very important and noticable when I first got the drive and did everything first on a RW format because I was so worried about creating coasters. Now I'm authoring straight to +R or -R because I'm more confident.

Now this may completely change with 4x media. If -R 4x media gets into my local computer store months before the +R 4x media then I'll definately take another look.

=alanjudy

Wooly
01-10-2003, 07:15 PM
FWIW, I have an A03 with the modified firmware that allows 2x burning on all media. I purchased a few 100 cakes of DVDPro (Princo) DVD-R from Supermedia.com. I have burned...let's see...about 150 of them so far. I have produced 5 coasters now (all my fault, doing dumb things that I should have known better). Basically, what I'm saying is that this is a great burner, great compatibility with nearly every DVD player I've tried out, and I can burn 2x.

Oh...did I mention that the media only costs $0.60 each? And the burner can be had for under $200?

Sounds like a no-brainer to me. But then again I never was very smart.

rd001
01-12-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Wooly
FWIW, I have an A03 with the modified firmware that allows 2x burning on all media. I purchased a few 100 cakes of DVDPro (Princo) DVD-R from Supermedia.com. I have burned...let's see...about 150 of them so far. I have produced 5 coasters now (all my fault, doing dumb things that I should have known better).Hmm... I tried one 2x with DvdPro media on my DVR103 and it froze twenty minutes in. I hadn't heard anyone claim to get such outstanding results with the DvdPro media. A lot of people claim compatibility problems with some players that they don't get with using other media or burning at 1X.

All of these 150 DVDs you've burned were at 2x?

Are you using Spruce or Maestro or something else?

Are you burning with Nero or something else? Which version are you using? What type of DVD (UDF, ISO, UDF/ISO, etc.)? Burning DVD images or on-the-fly-files? What standalone player(s) are you using?

More info please. I wannabe a 2x kind of guy (with a cheap burner and cheap media) just like you.

rd001
01-12-2003, 01:08 PM
As far as the original topic of the thread, didn't I read somewhere that Sony was making a new DVD-R drive? That it wasn't going to support DVD+R? Seem to recall it.

I think the +R/+RW media will fall in price to be about the same as -R/-RW in every way. Media price shouldn't necessarily determine your purchase. What may be more important is what the standalone VCR-like consumer recorder/burners and the cheap set-top players will support. Still a guessing game right now and what us early adopters are using may not determine what the industry chooses to support eventually. For instance, I read that the new Apex players aren't supporting SVCD. No one seems to know why. I suspect they want to support MPEG4/WMP and don't want to put in a bigger ROM so they're dropping the SVCD stuff to get extra ROM room but that's just my guess.

I don't think anyone can promise you which media type will eventually dominate or whether the standalones will eventually accommodate either or both over the long haul (5 years out).

I'm running a generic Pioneer A03 and have good results. I'd look hard at the Sony combo-media drives if I were buying now. But I don't think you're likely to go wrong with an A05 either. At least, not in the short term. Even with the Sony, you still have to guess which media will eventually dominate the market or you might eventually have a collection that happens to be on the wrong type of media that the industry didn't end supporting.

My advice: flip a coin.

Wooly
01-12-2003, 11:37 PM
150 DVD's Yes - I've burned another 4-5 today, all at 2x, so I'm confident that it isn't a fluke. I've ordered Princo's steadily during the past several months, so I don't believe I've gotten a "special" batch or anything.

I'm burning with Nero 5.5.9.9 - Do NOT use Nero 5.5.10, as it has a serious bug creating DVD's that verify fine, but are essentially "coasters". I've had equal success with DVDecrypter (the latest one as of today) as well. All burning fine with 2x.

As for type, I simply choose DVD Video (the third selection, I believe) and go to town. Plays fine on both my Sony as well as my Apex 1100W (of course, burnt toast plays on the Apex, so that isn't a real test).

I use Spruce simply to create Title sets, I have never burned inside the program (I much prefer Nero's stability and buffering capability, plus it will verify burns).

BTW, found a company that sells Princo at $0.65 ea (in cakes of 100) with free shipping:

http://www.allmediaoutlet.com/P-DVDR-4.7-GENPrinco.html



Originally posted by rd001

All of these 150 DVDs you've burned were at 2x?

Are you using Spruce or Maestro or something else?

Are you burning with Nero or something else? Which version are you using? What type of DVD (UDF, ISO, UDF/ISO, etc.)? Burning DVD images or on-the-fly-files? What standalone player(s) are you using?

More info please. I wannabe a 2x kind of guy (with a cheap burner and cheap media) just like you.

rd001
01-13-2003, 08:31 AM
Wooly,

I've got about 125 white-label DvdPro media onhand that I got from Supermediastore.com. From what you've said, I gather these are made by Princo and are just rebranded for discount. Is that right or is a real Princo a better disk for 2X compatibility?

Good point about Nero. I'm using 5.5.7.2 so I'd better update to 5.5.9.9 and give it a try. Even my older version came close to working.

Thanks for sharing your info.

hancocks
01-13-2003, 01:37 PM
Guys,

Here's a bit of an odd duck...

Had a few issues with my A03, and Pioneer was gracious enough to replace it with an A04. It worked fine (on cheap media) until it started to burn coasters with "communication failure" error messages, using Nero 5.5.9.14. Consistently. I called Pioneer, who said that their drive was not certified to use with the A04 (!), and I should use their Veritas s/w (RecordNow).
I tried it, and it hasn't missed since. BUT, I can't seem to get it to burn at 2x....go figure. An inconvenience. The Pioneer tech said that they are certified with Roxio, however...which I can't find in the house :-(.

Anyone with similar strangeness, please post.

Tx,

- Stu

Wooly
01-13-2003, 10:41 PM
Sounds like you've got Princo's, which are damned good as cheapo-media goes. Congrats!

I cannot stress enough - do NOT upgrade to Nero 5.5.10. Big compatibility problems with DVD Video mode. Stay at 5.5.9.9 or below.

BTW, you can find out what media you have by going into DVD Decrypter, go into Write mode, and put in a blank DVD-R - on the right hand side it'll tell you the type of media you have. Also, there is a prgram floating around that will give you buco info on your media...I think you can get it from here:

http://www.dvd-recordable.org



Originally posted by rd001
Wooly,

I've got about 125 white-label DvdPro media onhand that I got from Supermediastore.com. From what you've said, I gather these are made by Princo and are just rebranded for discount. Is that right or is a real Princo a better disk for 2X compatibility?

Good point about Nero. I'm using 5.5.7.2 so I'd better update to 5.5.9.9 and give it a try. Even my older version came close to working.

Thanks for sharing your info.

Wooly
01-13-2003, 10:47 PM
Have you upgraded the A04 with the 2xall modified Firmware? Afterwards, you have to power cycle both the drive AND the computer (if it's in an external USB2/Firewire case). Also, try upgrading to Nero 5.5.9.9. Alternatively, try using the latest DVD Decrypter to burn the DVD - I have had tremendous success with both of those (as well as the ones you mentioned).

I DID have some issues with earlier versions of Nero, but I don't remember which ones. It was quite some time ago, however (4 months or so).


Originally posted by hancocks
Guys,

Here's a bit of an odd duck...

Had a few issues with my A03, and Pioneer was gracious enough to replace it with an A04. It worked fine (on cheap media) until it started to burn coasters with "communication failure" error messages, using Nero 5.5.9.14. Consistently. I called Pioneer, who said that their drive was not certified to use with the A04 (!), and I should use their Veritas s/w (RecordNow).
I tried it, and it hasn't missed since. BUT, I can't seem to get it to burn at 2x....go figure. An inconvenience. The Pioneer tech said that they are certified with Roxio, however...which I can't find in the house :-(.

Anyone with similar strangeness, please post.

Tx,

- Stu

rd001
01-14-2003, 05:08 AM
Thanks, Wooly!

hancocks
01-14-2003, 08:15 AM
Wooly,

I'll try both suggestions and let you know. Yup, I did do the firmware upgrade, and believe I powercycled (it's all sort of a blur at this point, so will repeat).

Also, back to an earlier Nero...

Thanks,

- Stu