tyremux a GPLed TyStream demuxer and to be remuxer [Archive] - Page 3 - DealDatabase Forum - Deals, Freebies, and TiVo & DirecTivo Hacking

olaf_sc

02-17-2003, 02:49 AM

Hello,

Well my and I can only count for my self here.I aiming for end of Feb, but we are three main developers and the release date is depending on when we all three is considering us okay for a public release.

Now I consider my self nearly half done or so, very hard to tell (started real coding in end of Jan). There is very tricky parts left on my todo list. IFO/DVD generation to take one. Sometimes the hard once is easy and the easy once are hard. I got stuck for well over a week on a trivial task of converting MPEG I-Frames to PPM images on the fly and in realtime.

There is also other tasks that are easy but just takes a lot of time, e.g. coverting printf statements to out new logging engine. The whole thing is very dependent on how much time each of us can spend on coding.

Well, we are all three making very good progress. BassMan is very active and he is actually a head of me. Waiting for me to finish tasks so he can proceeed.

Hmm, I would say that a good guess is end of Feb and not later than end of Mars. The only thing I can say is that when 0.5.0 comes out it will rock you.

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by laserfan
Olaf could you project please even a rough release date for 0.5.0? End-of-Feb? End-of-March? Fourth of July? The "percent completion" post didn't help me very much cuz I don't know really where you started... Thanks!

MrBassMan

02-17-2003, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by laserfan
Olaf could you project please even a rough release date for 0.5.0? End-of-Feb? End-of-March? Fourth of July? The "percent completion" post didn't help me very much cuz I don't know really where you started... Thanks!

I can guarantee it will definitely be released before the 32nd of Octember. Although it is likely to be released ahead of schedule.:p

Don't forget, we are writting this code because we want to use it as well - that makes us impatient users too.

MrBassMan

02-17-2003, 05:30 AM

Originally posted by rc3105
there's a cvs of the latest, but I wouldn't reccomend it unless you're a decent programmer and/or willing to compile / debug / test quite a bit.

features are still being added / debugged / reworked etc.

it's a lot like sausage, you really probably don't want to see the intermediate steps.

I'm sure 0.5 will be posted here as soon as olaf feels it's ready.

--
Riley

And it's a sausage that you are likely to find bits of finger in too :eek:

Sorry to those who have just had their dinner - I couldn't resist that.

phrend

02-22-2003, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by rc3105
first step is getting tystreams out. I use...
<snip>
next step is processing extracted video
<snip>
7. - mpeg mediator to convert the mpeg into divx
<snip>
--
Riley

Riley,

I'm very interested in how you do this... I think that I can use your new ftp utility/server to extract the videos and can script the un-tar - strip XML - etc. processes, but I don't see any documentation on how to call mpeg mediator via CLI. My goal is to get the videos over to my laptop so that I can watch them at work (graveyard shift). Although I don't need to convert them to DivX/MPEG4/XVid/etc., doing so would make the files much smaller, so I could take more video with me... :)

Thanks in advance!

rc3105

02-23-2003, 09:34 AM

www.mpeg-mediator.com

it's gpl so the source is available.

I just recopiled a version that checks a config file so it runs batches whenever the script calls it.

--
Riley

MrBassMan

02-23-2003, 08:10 PM

Coming soon to a Unix or Windows PC near you!

Don't ask for delievry dates or anything like that - this is just to let you know things are coming along nicely.

mpauley

02-23-2003, 08:12 PM

Very nice....

Dont make us wait to long....

MrBassMan

02-23-2003, 08:16 PM

0.5.0 is getting close to being frozen for new features. After that there will be a period of Alpha testing - testers have already been chosen - so don't ask.

However - I can definitely confirm the original target date of the 32nd Octember will be met.

mpauley

02-23-2003, 08:18 PM

That would be the 5th Sunday? Right? I'll mark my calendar!

jjfeiler

02-24-2003, 12:40 AM

I've been trying to get tydemux 0.4.2 to work on MacOSX, and I'm getting errors when I try to run it through:

Zaphod% tydemux -s 2 -i Aqua\ Teen\ Hungerforce.ty -v Aqua\ Teen\ Hungerforce.m2v -a Aqua\ Teen\ Hungerforce.m2a
Probing TyStream .....
Error in probe - exit

Now that all focus is on 0.5.0, I'm willing to wait (impatiently) to try the alpha/beta when it comes out, but I'm curious as to whether this is a known problem, or my error -- and whether or not it's fixed in 0.5.0. I'd be happy to help test. :)

SAT-T60 with turbonet, 160GB HD, TivoWeb with MfsStream module. MacOSX 2x800MHz 10.2.4 w/ tydemux 0.4.2.

jjfeiler

02-24-2003, 02:29 AM

I've been doing more forum reading... is the noscramble thingy required to get any of this stuff working, or does that just apply to 2.5.2? I still haven't found a decent single source HOWTO.

jjfeiler

02-24-2003, 02:41 AM

OK, thanks... noscramble will get installed ASAP... thanks.

keith721

02-24-2003, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by MrBassMan
However - I can definitely confirm the original target date of the 32nd Octember will be met.
Huh? :confused: I though it was due Marchuary 33rd ? :D :D

Great news!! Looking forward to your release.

now - does anyone wonder if TiVo will slam us all with a huge update, that changes just about everything, right around the time that it starts working really well?

wallace

02-24-2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by MrBassMan
Coming soon to a Unix or Windows PC near you!

Don't ask for delievry dates or anything like that - this is just to let you know things are coming along nicely.

"Start Stop" in the window on the right ??? Is that supposed to be "Stop Cut"? I am just guessing that is an error based on the first entry and the buttons on the left of the window. That and the fact that it looks well designed and everything makes sense except that :P

MrBassMan

02-24-2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by wallace
"Start Stop" in the window on the right ??? Is that supposed to be "Stop Cut"? I am just guessing that is an error based on the first entry and the buttons on the left of the window. That and the fact that it looks well designed and everything makes sense except that :P

I noticed it soon after putting up the image - don't worry it's already been fixed :cool:

BillyZ

02-24-2003, 04:36 PM

been working with TyDemux since Day 1--gotta say its brilliant...it does however hit a few anomolies in some TY files tho -- no too much docs on errors....what do you think of the log below...any ideas?

......... 13100......... 13200......... 13300.....get_audio: Warning! Audio size
574 while pes says size 576
Temporal Reference Error - Repairing
The Temporal Reference error is a underflow in frames
Underflow in frames repaired
..WARNING: Audio frame(s) missing - compensating
.. 13400......... 13500
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
...WARNING: Audio frame(s) missing - compensating
..... 13600.WARNING: Audio frame(s) missing - compensating
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
Temporal Reference Error - Repairing
Unable to repair temporal reference error
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
...get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
... 13700.....get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.... 13800......get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
...get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
13900...get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
Check Chunk: Had big gap - 472290225 ticks -> and then every thing was bad
Will try to revert and repair the TyStream better with a gap than nothig
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
<Cut due to Length>
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 577 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576

Repairing TyStream
Managed to repair tystream
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 577 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
14100get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
Check Chunk: Had big gap - 117117 ticks -> and then every thing was bad
Will try to revert and repair the TyStream better with a gap than nothig
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 577 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576

Repairing TyStream
Didn't get the seq
Failed to repair tystream
Sorry folks, we are exting now due to this failure

olaf_sc

02-25-2003, 03:11 AM

Hello

As usuall - please upload it to my ftp server it's ip is 66.121.15.35. If it's really big you might want to chop it up and send only the part that is failing. Note!!!! TEST tydemux on the chopped part, verifying that it fails on it.

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by BillyZ
been working with TyDemux since Day 1--gotta say its brilliant...it does however hit a few anomolies in some TY files tho -- no too much docs on errors....what do you think of the log below...any ideas?

......... 13100......... 13200......... 13300.....get_audio: Warning! Audio size
574 while pes says size 576
Temporal Reference Error - Repairing
The Temporal Reference error is a underflow in frames
Underflow in frames repaired
..WARNING: Audio frame(s) missing - compensating
.. 13400......... 13500
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
...WARNING: Audio frame(s) missing - compensating
..... 13600.WARNING: Audio frame(s) missing - compensating
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
Temporal Reference Error - Repairing
Unable to repair temporal reference error
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
...get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
... 13700.....get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.... 13800......get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
...get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
13900...get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
Check Chunk: Had big gap - 472290225 ticks -> and then every thing was bad
Will try to revert and repair the TyStream better with a gap than nothig
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
<Cut due to Length>
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 577 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576

Repairing TyStream
Managed to repair tystream
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 577 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
14100get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
.get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
Check Chunk: Had big gap - 117117 ticks -> and then every thing was bad
Will try to revert and repair the TyStream better with a gap than nothig
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 575 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 577 while pes says size 576
get_audio: Warning! Audio size 579 while pes says size 576

Repairing TyStream
Didn't get the seq
Failed to repair tystream
Sorry folks, we are exting now due to this failure

olaf_sc

02-26-2003, 12:59 PM

Hi Folks

Just wanted to share the info that the editor is naturally cross platform. Here is a screenshot with it running under Linux on my KDE desktop.

Cheers Olaf

donmc

02-26-2003, 01:03 PM

Now you're just taunting us non-alpha testers :D

Excellent - looking forward to the big release day - Go on, drip feed us some of the soon to be available functionality.

Don

RxMan

02-26-2003, 01:09 PM

What is the output file of the editor? If it is mpeg..do any of the current dvd authoring programs (spruce, maestro, etc ) accept the file?

THANKS!

rc3105

02-26-2003, 01:38 PM

well I imagine olaf's version outputs .mpg (since that's kinda the point) and tydemux mpeg generally works in whatever authoring sw you feel like using.

my version outputs .tmf's so I can insert them back or stream them to another tivo w/o commercials...

:D

--
Riley

Gruph

02-26-2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by rc3105
well I imagine olaf's version outputs .mpg (since that's kinda the point) and tydemux mpeg generally works in whatever authoring sw you feel like using.

my version outputs .tmf's so I can insert them back or stream them to another tivo w/o commercials...

:D

--
Riley

Riley,

Is there any hope in having both options for output?

-Gruph

RxMan

02-26-2003, 01:55 PM

Geez. I need to do some reading. I have been following JDiner and kinda lost sight of the other efforts. I have used TyDemux to split the files, I didn't realize that there was also a version that outputed mpeg.

rc3105,

No commercials and back into the tivo....that is awesome! I will have to give it a try.

Delta

02-26-2003, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by rc3105
my version outputs .tmf's so I can insert them back or stream them to another tivo w/o commercials...

Since you can go from TMF to MPEG and TMF to TMF, is there any chance of going from MPEG to TMF??

olaf_sc

02-26-2003, 03:06 PM

Hmm, actually don't get you here RC, do you plan to extend tydemux/typrocess to produce valid tystreams instead of mpeg files?

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by rc3105
my version outputs .tmf's so I can insert them back or stream them to another tivo w/o commercials...
Riley

rc3105

02-26-2003, 03:22 PM

eventually I'd like to produce a codec that could be used to convert divx/mpg/whaterver into valid tystreams.

so far, all I'm doing is producing a cut list that's based on chunk numbers instead of time. then slicing up the original tmf (taking care to preserve the fsid header chunks) and producing a new tmf minus the chunks between cutpoints.

transitions on chopped boundries produce a second or so of blocky video but otherwise work pretty well.

not elegant, but still pretty neat since the edited files go back in easily with mfs_ftp, which is eating most of my hacking time lately.

(900 lines of tcl in the released version, another 5000 in various experiments / projects.... what WAS I thinking???) :D

--
Riley

olaf_sc

02-26-2003, 07:28 PM

Hmm it would be failry simple to do that operation is tydemux, it would actually be fairly simple to do it in tyserver. However note that you will not get perfect video quality at the cut points. I rather figure out what the additional fields are in the tyrecord header and how to use them.

Since AlphaWolf has reported that a generic master chunk works fine it should be a pretty simple to generate tystreams from a tystream. A bit trickier to do it from a mpeg source but doable, although nothing that will be in 0.5.0.

Cheers Olof

Originally posted by rc3105
eventually I'd like to produce a codec that could be used to convert divx/mpg/whaterver into valid tystreams.

so far, all I'm doing is producing a cut list that's based on chunk numbers instead of time. then slicing up the original tmf (taking care to preserve the fsid header chunks) and producing a new tmf minus the chunks between cutpoints.

transitions on chopped boundries produce a second or so of blocky video but otherwise work pretty well.

not elegant, but still pretty neat since the edited files go back in easily with mfs_ftp, which is eating most of my hacking time lately.

(900 lines of tcl in the released version, another 5000 in various experiments / projects.... what WAS I thinking???) :D

--
Riley

AlphaWolf

02-26-2003, 08:20 PM

olaf_sc: what I have found is that I can fill in all of the required data with information that is the same in all tystream master chunks, then throw any tystream normal chunks after it, and it plays fine. However, seeking screws you up. If you rewind, skip backwards, 30 second skip, fast forward, slowmo, etc, it then skips immediately to the end of the stream.

otakucode

02-26-2003, 09:41 PM

rc3105... I got the MPEG Mediator source. It says I need the Adobe Premiere Extensions header which I can get from videotools.net. Well, its not there. Any idea where I can get it? I need at least prExtensions.h and whatever is depends upon. I got the videoserver thing from videotools.net but that did not include it. I really want to make MPEG Mediator into something I can automate, I'd appreciate any help getting the headers, I believe their license allows distribution and such...

OtakuCODE

MrBassMan

02-26-2003, 09:57 PM

To answer a lot of questions about the editor that have come up recently:

The cut file format is text based so you can hand-craft them if you wanted to. The cut file format is:

# comment
timestart timeend cuttype

The editor has Olaf's demux, an audio transcoder and mplex built in (on Windows it is a .DLL) and ultimately each of these filters will be selectable in/out of the processing. The design allows for other filters to be added in the future.

The editor has controls to select different audio transcode options and different video output options. The video options are equivalent to the -f parameter to mplex. This means you do not need to save a cut file if you don't want to. Just load a TY file, select the cut points, choose an output format and press 'Process'.

Ultimately I hope to have it so that while the file is processing you can open another TY file and start editing so you don't have to wait for the last one to finish. This may not be in the first release though as there are issues with global variables.

All the filter modules are running in seperate threads with data flowing between them in pipes so demuxing, transcoding and mplexing all happen simultaneously.

The current state of play is that I have completed nearly all the functionality. It crashes a little too often at the moment but once I have improved the reliability it will go into Aplha testing.

tydemux will still be available as a stand-alone program for those that want it and it will be able to read cut files or take cuts on the command line.

rosenkavalier

02-26-2003, 11:44 PM

Hello. I have 4 or 5 old 1.3 streams on my TiVo that I'd like to extract and convert. I was able to extract them with TyTools (as .ty files). In another thread, I read that the best (current) way to convert old .ty streams was with tydemux 0.4.2 and the -s 1 switch.

Well, all of my 1.3 streams had one of two errors, both of which are quoted below. The error listed then repeats for each chunk until all have been read. The .mpg and .ac3 files end up as 0 kb each.

Is this one of the fixes that is scheduled for 0.5? If so, I can just wait until then to deal with them. Thanks.

Error Type 1
D:\TiVoStream>tydemux -s 1 -i SP-1-compl.ty -v SP-1-compl.mpg -a SP-1-compl.ac3
Probing TyStream .....

Tystream recorded on:
SA Tivo Series 1
Software rev 1.3

Tystream recoding audio stats:
MPEG Layer II audio
Average tyrecord (audio) size: 864
Audio frame size: 864
Audio frame time: 3240 (ticks)

Tystream recoding video stats:
Frame rate: 29.97 frames/sec

Seeking TyStream start of MPEG Layer II audio
Found start of MPEG Layer II audio
Skipping to chunk 1 - reseting chunk numbering

Starting demux process
......... 100......... 200......... 300......... 400......... 500
......... 600......... 700.....Init of Tystream faild!!
Init of Tystream faild!!
Init of Tystream faild!!
(error repeats for all remaining chunks)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Error Type 2
D:\TiVoStream>tydemux -s 1 -i TMG-1-compl.ty -v TMG-1.mpg -a TMG-1.ac3
Probing TyStream .....

Tystream recorded on:
SA Tivo Series 1
Software rev 1.3

Tystream recoding audio stats:
MPEG Layer II audio
Average tyrecord (audio) size: 864
Audio frame size: 864
Audio frame time: 3240 (ticks)

Tystream recoding video stats:
Frame rate: 29.97 frames/sec

Seeking TyStream start of MPEG Layer II audio
Found start of MPEG Layer II audio
Skipping to chunk 1 - reseting chunk numbering

Starting demux process
Check Chunk: chunk 0 record: 16 - junk record type: f00 - skipping
Check Chunk: chunk 1 record: 19 - junk record type: f00 - skipping
Check Chunk: chunk 2 record: 19 - junk record type: f00 - skipping
(error repeats for all remaining chunks)

olaf_sc

02-27-2003, 02:19 AM

Hello,

Could you send one of the streams that has error type 2 so I can fix the problem. I don't need the whole stream but I need say 500 chunks. My ftp server is 66.121.15.35 please put the files under the 1.3 dir.

Cheers Olaf

PS: Please mail me at olaf_sc@yahoo.com when you have uploaded the files.

Originally posted by rosenkavalier
Hello. I have 4 or 5 old 1.3 streams on my TiVo that I'd like to extract and convert. I was able to extract them with TyTools (as .ty files). In another thread, I read that the best (current) way to convert old .ty streams was with tydemux 0.4.2 and the -s 1 switch.

Well, all of my 1.3 streams had one of two errors, both of which are quoted below. The error listed then repeats for each chunk until all have been read. The .mpg and .ac3 files end up as 0 kb each.

Is this one of the fixes that is scheduled for 0.5? If so, I can just wait until then to deal with them. Thanks.

MrBassMan

02-27-2003, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by rc3105
a tydemux transcoding mode from .ty or .mpg to <insert favorite codec here> would be unbelievably AWESOME.
--
Riley

The next release of tydemux will include stream support as well as file support so all this is now entering the realms of possibilities.

I have also added stream support to mplex and to the audio transcoder. These are all tied together with a new program called typrocess that uses these stream capabilities by piping the output of one module to the next. All the modules run simultaneously in their own threads.

Pr.Sinister

02-27-2003, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by MrBassMan
The next release of tydemux will include stream support as well as file support so all this is now entering the realms of possibilities.

I have also added stream support to mplex and to the audio transcoder. These are all tied together with a new program called typrocess that uses these stream capabilities by piping the output of one module to the next. All the modules run simultaneously in their own threads.

Drooooooool....!

-Pr.

otakucode

02-27-2003, 07:10 PM

rc3105, I got the Adobe Premiere SDK quite easily by just going to Adobe's site... the one I am having problems with is the Adobe Premiere Extensions created by the guy that runs videotools.net. I'll try emailing him but I didn't want to bother him since it looks like he keeps himself quite busy doing cool video stuff ;)

I bought Divx 5.0.3 when it came out and they offered it for $15. Bad move. I now cannot use Vidomi to encode my Divx's. I tried FlaskMPEG and it works on small files, but haven't been able to get it to work on a full-length movie yet. I was planning on using divxauto40b and mpeg2avi PX release to get it done, but then I read your post about modified MPEG Mediator. I had used MPEG Mediator before, but I didn't realize it was open source, so I immediately ran and got it, got the Adobe SDK, and tried to find the Extensions thing. I tried to compile but it chokes when it can't find prExtensions.h...

OtakuCODE

otakucode

02-27-2003, 10:21 PM

Thanks a million, now I'm just getting 4 errors about not being able to do some casts, I'm sure I'll be able to fix them shortly.

Thanks again!

OtakuCODE

davids66

02-28-2003, 09:34 AM

Tydemux looks like it would be a great way to repair those streams with temporal reference errors. SpruceUp and DVDMaestro cannot be used if there are temporal reference errors. While mplex works great feeding SpruceUp and DVDMaestro with those files without these errors, Tydemux files cause both SpruceUp and DVDMaestro to abnormally end on every stream I have tried. Any ideas on what causes this.

I hope this is something that can be overcome as I do have quite a few files with temporal reference errors.

Thanks for any help.

David

davids66

02-28-2003, 09:47 AM

I'm getting my tools mixed up since I normally use tytool for the Dtivo stream and it is a DTivo Version 2.5 so you know what type of stream I am trying to process.

David

Pr.Sinister

02-28-2003, 01:20 PM

Your Ty Editor will be chopping on I Frames only or will
it be frame accurate. Not sure if this was mentioned
before.

Reason i ask is because some shows don't have the
Fade to black or Fade from black and cutting on GOP
leaves a little extra stuff in.

For show that do have the black frames, GopEditor is
perfect but shows like VH1's "I Love the '80s" just irrirate
the hell outta me cause i can rarely get a "perfect" cut.

I just want to know if i should wait to put those on DVDs
or i shouldn't bother.

Thanks.

-Pr.

MrBassMan

02-28-2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by Pr.Sinister
Your Ty Editor will be chopping on I Frames only or will
it be frame accurate. Not sure if this was mentioned
before.
On GOPs only I'm afraid, at least for the first release.
Specifying cuts by a frame between GOPS is theoretically possible but we would need to write more code to support it. We have to have a feature cut-off at some time so this is unlikely to make it in release 1.

I think it is important enough to be very high on a wish list for a future release.

Pr.Sinister

02-28-2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by MrBassMan
On GOPs only I'm afraid, at least for the first release.
Specifying cuts by a frame between GOPS is theoretically possible but we would need to write more code to support it. We have to have a feature cut-off at some time so this is unlikely to make it in release 1.

I think it is important enough to be very high on a wish list for a future release.

Ya i understand. Gotta crawl before we walk! Good to know
it might come in the future.

-Pr.

bato

02-28-2003, 02:51 PM

I read that tydemux fill some gaps when needed, maybe a feature (not in this release) to cut at frame level and fill what's left from the original GOP with black frames? Remember, I don't know what I'm talking about :D

olaf_sc

02-28-2003, 04:41 PM

The whole things depends on how much mpeg encoding we want to plug into the tydemux project*.

A short mpeg sequence can look something like this

2I 0B 1B 5P 3B 4B "GOP HEADER" 2I 0B 1B 5P 3B 4B "GOP HEADER" 2I 0B 1B 5P 3B 4B

As seen we have three (very tiny) GOP:s, each frame in the gop is displayed in the order of the number i.e. 0 1 2 3 4 5 but decoded in 2 0 1 5 3 4 order. Further more B Frame 0 and 1 is dependent on the last P or I frame from the previous GOP.

At the current time we will cut at the I-frame and start the stop the cut at the I-Frame.

This has two implications: Frame 0 and 1 is displayed before the 2 I frame but since we cut at the GOP boundery we will get a missaligment by two frames (the cut is at the I frame but displaywise it's two frames before).

The cut end at the 2 I-Frame, in contrast to the cut start this will be frame accurate sincw we can't display the 0 and 1 B-Frame since we don't have the previous I-Frame. However inorder to have a clean cut (no blocky video at the cut point) we will need to turn the start GOP into a closed GOP or raise the edit flag in the GOP header. In tydemux we do the first one, since it's the correct and nice way to go. Hence we turn a 2I 0B 1B 5P 3B 4B GOP into a 0I 3P 1B 2B GOP at the cut end.

Now to achive a frame accurate cut at the GOP end we can do to things. The first one is the nicest and the latter one works but it's a matter of cheating.

2I 0B 1B 5P 3B 4B "GOP HEADER" 2I 0B 1B 5P 3B 4B

The 0 and 1 B Frame in the second GOP is dependent on both the 2I frame of the second GOP and the 5 P-Frame of the first GOP. What is needed is to turn the 1 B frame in the last GOP either into a P or a I Frame. It will look something like this.

2I 0B 1B 5P 3B 4B "GOP HEADER" 2I 0B 1P/I 5P 3B 4B

When we make the cut we simply move the two B-Frames like this

2I 0B 1B 5P 3B 4B 7P/I 6B "CUT START" 2I 5P 3B 4B

Turning the B - Frmae into a P Frame approche is the best one - mpeg wise - the I Frame way is the eaier one since we will just decode the B-Frame and then encode it to a I Frame.

Now the cheate way is to fake the whole thing, we can guess a bit and look at the reference pointers in the 0 and 1B Frame. At the gop boundary we either have a scene change or it's just a convience GOP to make random access possible in the stream.

If we have a radically changes scene the motion vectors in the B-Frame will not point to the I-Frame (the frame of the scene change). They will instread point to the previous P Frame. In this case we can use the B-Frames without providing a furture P/I-Frame since the B-Frame is only dependent on the previous P-Frame (we have to adjust the B-Frame in the compessed space although).

The next thing is when there is a GOP beacuse of random access only - i.e. the B-Frame is more or less the same picuture as the I-Frame that we will cut away. We can this fact and simply replace the 1B Frame with the I Frame we will cut away. Turinging the 1B into a 1 I-Frame (however since the new 1 I-Frame needs to be decoded before the 0B the order or them will be 1 0 and not 0 1). We can now cut at the real I-Frame copy 0B and the I-Frame we are about to cut to the previous GOP and we will have a frame accurate cut (well more or less and it's so less that you will not notice it!).

Cheers Olaf

PS: Note that with similar quite simple technic it's more or less possible to cut anywhere in the GOP We are bound to GOP bounderies!. However since the main focus is to cut out comersials which is a scene change - which means that it will only be cuting at the gop boundery anyway it's very doubtfull that editng in the middle of a GOP is something that we will need.

*Note - the tydemux project is now several different parts which can be used both together and independently.

Originally posted by Pr.Sinister
Ya i understand. Gotta crawl before we walk! Good to know
it might come in the future.

-Pr.

MrBassMan

02-28-2003, 05:22 PM

Olaf will be asking you all questions on this at a later date to make sure you were all paying attention :o

bato

03-01-2003, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by MrBassMan
Olaf will be asking you all questions on this at a later date to make sure you were all paying attention :o

So I guess if I can't answer the questions I'm not allowed to ask anything. :D Now I know that I'm only going to be a user and not a developer

otakucode

03-02-2003, 10:35 PM

rc3105, is there any chance I could pester you and ask some questions about the MPEG Mediator source that you've probably already discovered? I know this isn't the correct place for this, and feel free to respond via email or in a private message here... I'm just wondering how to pass information to the OpenDML AVI output plugin? Codec settings, etc... Not a detailed walkthrough or anything necessarily, but just information on what structure holds the codec settings or any procedures used to pass the settings from the main MPEG Mediator source to the OpenDML plugin...

OtakuCODE

Gruph

03-03-2003, 02:25 AM

Hey y'all.

Just curious about the SMPTE time coding...

I'm using MPEG2-VCR. It has a GOP Fixer built in. When I scan a file that mplex output, it has SMPTE time stamp errors, and also GOP size errors (that are not DVD compliant). The GOP size errors are known and very much discussed here.. about the fact that there are no plans as of yet to fix for that. That's fine.

But my question to the group is this:

There are issues with the SMPTE time stamp and it could fix a lot of crashing in DVD authoring programs or other viewers seeking properly. Are there any plans on adding a SMPTE time stamp correction feature to tyremux?

Thanks again for all of your hard work on this project!

-Gruph

otakucode

03-03-2003, 06:34 AM

rc3105, Yeah, I got 1.5 to compile about 2 minutes after I posted the note thanking you for the headers I needed ;) I just had to add some explicit casts. I'm using Visual Studio .NET, so I suspect it was just being a bit more strict than VS6. I've been tracing through some more and thus far here's about all I've figured out:

(I should note, my goal is to be able to pass the name of a control file on the command line and have MPEG Mediator read in the file and use the info in it to setup all necessary variables and kick off processing)

outfilename is a global C-style string and just holds the name of the output file.

The plugins array (global) holds the information about the plugins, Video Server and OpenDML AVI Output by default. The "Configure plugin" window does little more than record what selection you made (in respect to the codec, it does note your post processing settings such as resizing, deinterlacing, IVTC, etc and stores them in globals). It doesn't have info about the codecs at all from what I can tell.

So that leads to the OpenDML AVI Output plugin source. In that is the source that controls the codec selection dialog, etc. It quickly turns to a lot of Video For Windows stuff that I haven't figured out yet. I hope I am not reading it correctly, but it looks like ICConfigure() handles the launching of the individual codec settings pages and VfW itself is what is holding the codec config information. Since my goal is to use Divx specifically, I think I'll need to look into ways to set the Divx settings outside of VfW... either that or I'll have to see if VfW supports some functions that let you set the codec parameters manually...

Maybe this is a question someone here knows... the Divx codec, since Divx 5, includes this editbox at the bottom of its setup page on the first tab labelled "Quick CLI" or something along those lines... what the hell is that for?

OtakuCODE

pawl

03-03-2003, 02:11 PM

I've been wondering about how difficult it would be to make a Directshow filter from tydemux. Since it's already a splitter, it seems most of the work is already done. I've never programmed for directx though, and I know nothing about the Ty container.

Hopefully one of you that knows more could clue me on on the feasibility before I get started...

olaf_sc

03-03-2003, 08:26 PM

It would be a pretty trivial matter of fixing it. One problem remains the algo to deal withit is not well described. If anyone could point me to some good docs I could code it up.

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by Gruph
Hey y'all.

Just curious about the SMPTE time coding...

I'm using MPEG2-VCR. It has a GOP Fixer built in. When I scan a file that mplex output, it has SMPTE time stamp errors, and also GOP size errors (that are not DVD compliant). The GOP size errors are known and very much discussed here.. about the fact that there are no plans as of yet to fix for that. That's fine.

But my question to the group is this:

There are issues with the SMPTE time stamp and it could fix a lot of crashing in DVD authoring programs or other viewers seeking properly. Are there any plans on adding a SMPTE time stamp correction feature to tyremux?

Thanks again for all of your hard work on this project!

-Gruph

otakucode

03-03-2003, 08:26 PM

I'm also examining the FlaskMPEG source of the newest version since it supports dual pass encoding and it must be doing what I want to do at SOME point - save the codec settings in some persistent state and restore them without user intervention. I would like to see about hooking into Divx.dll directly, but I can find exactly 0 documentation about it and I don't feel like examining its exports and guessing how to use them. As far as making a DirectX filter for TY files... it'd be quite interesting and I wouldn't think extremely difficult. I prolly won't be tackling it though because its just not something I would fine very useful.... automated encoding from TY straight to Divx would be insanely useful for me, however, so I'm pursuing any avenues I can to get that going without having to dive headfirst into VfW or DirectShow coding... that shouldn't be necessary since so many programs exist out there for encoding that are open source (and not one of them can be automated without weird capture-the-window-and-put-text-in-there-from-another-process-and-fake-mouse-clicks).

Back to sifting code... BTW, for anyone interested... MPEG Mediator source is much more nicely put together than FlaskMPEG. Flask uses MFC and is a bit uglier... but more capable as well.

OtakuCODE

olaf_sc

03-03-2003, 08:36 PM

Well - since it looks like you are keen on cooking I suggest that you get dress in the right outfit and start garnishing :).

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by rc3105
pawl:

take the source for mpeg mediator & tydemux, mix well & garnish with lime.

all the info needed is in there, difficult is a matter of perspective.

--
Riley

rc3105

03-03-2003, 10:35 PM

did you mean the freanch maid uniform? no wait, wrong forum... ;)

mfs_ftp's eating all my spare time lately.... oh well

got a roast in the oven & a bar-b-q grill rairing to go if it ever stops raining

--
Riley

MrBassMan

03-04-2003, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by pawl
I've been wondering about how difficult it would be to make a Directshow filter from tydemux. Since it's already a splitter, it seems most of the work is already done. I've never programmed for directx though, and I know nothing about the Ty container.

Hopefully one of you that knows more could clue me on on the feasibility before I get started...

Start by looking at the tydemux source in sourceforge, in particular look at typrocess. You need to create a module that on one side drives DirectX and on the other side takes a video stream from a pipe. i.e uses the standard C read() function to obtain it's data.

PM me for more details.

Gruph

03-04-2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by olaf_sc
It would be a pretty trivial matter of fixing it. One problem remains the algo to deal withit is not well described. If anyone could point me to some good docs I could code it up.

Cheers Olaf

Olaf,

I am very willing to look for something.. but I'm not sure exactly what you need. Do you need information on what the different fields are, or ?

When I get home, I will copy the information from the MPEG2-VCR help file.. see if it has any useful information.

Thanks!

-Gruph

olaf_sc

03-04-2003, 06:07 PM

Hello Folks,

Progress report :), we have come pretty far and is actually using the different programs our self. Not for prime tasks but for debuging, while we still have things to work out. Most of the code of 0.5.0 is written now, As usuall bugs still need to be ironed out and few items still on the list but not much and it may also be so that we move it to 0.5.1.

Internal remuxing: 100% - Note this is remux to both std MPEG, SVCD MPEG, and DVD MPEG
Internal audio transcoding: 90% - Note both ac3 to mpeg and mpeg to ac3, 32kHz, 44.1kHz and 48kHz supported.
Index/Image engine: 100% - indexing and image fetching done in real time
Cutting engine: 100%
GUI editor: 90% - no need to create any index file before running the editor we index on the fly in real time - it's also the real images from the tystream that is displyed
Tivo server: 95% - this is the part running on the Tivo
Network client: 75% - this is the part running on your PC/MAC
IFO (DVD info files): 0%
lib/DLL of all ty sub projects: 100% - all sub parts of "tydemux" (name suggestions for the project wellcommed) are now accessable as libraries on Unix and as a big DLL under Windows.

Cheers Olaf

Ahh, release date :) - well we are kind of aiming for a a fuzzy beta release the fuzzy second half of Mars :).

MrBassMan

03-04-2003, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by olaf_sc
Ahh, release date :) - well we are kind of aiming for a a fuzzy beta release the fuzzy second half of Mars :).

This may move into a hazy Saturn if we hit any major bugs. Mecury is totally fogbound and so completely out of the running.

- Sorry Olaf - I couldn't resist it! :D

RxMan

03-04-2003, 07:52 PM

Can the DVD Mpeg be imported into any of the standard editing tools? (SpruceUp, Maestro, etc...)

Thanks for the hard work and the updates.

olaf_sc

03-04-2003, 08:44 PM

Hello

Most DVD authoring programs only takes ES raw mpeg video as input (along with other raw video formats) plus matching autio tracks.

Hence you will most probably use the demuxed video and audio that e.g. tyeditor creates for you. You can chose any form out output from the editor. Std MPEG2 - which is a standard PS MPEG stream including both mpeg2 video and either ac3 or mpeg audio, SVCD MPEG is the same but restrictions applied by the SVCD format is applied, likewise with DVD MPEG i.e. DVD restrictions. The forth alternative is to output ES streams i.e. raw mpeg video and raw mpeg audio/ac3 audio. This is the format that you will use inorder to improt your source to pretty much any DVD authoring program.

Cheers Olof

Originally posted by RxMan
Can the DVD Mpeg be imported into any of the standard editing tools? (SpruceUp, Maestro, etc...)

Thanks for the hard work and the updates.

RxMan

03-04-2003, 08:47 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. I just want to be able to use your editor, etc and be able to import the resulting file into a program to create menus and chapters. It sounds like that will be the case with your next release.

old7

03-04-2003, 08:54 PM

I'm ready, I'm ready, I'm ready.

<sits on hands trying to be patient>

Old7

MrBassMan

03-04-2003, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by RxMan
Thanks for clearing that up. I just want to be able to use your editor, etc and be able to import the resulting file into a program to create menus and chapters. It sounds like that will be the case with your next release.

The editor also has a tantalising button labelled "Chapter".

This is for future use when we go all the way with this project to produce all the files necessary to burn directly to disk. I have decided to leave the button there in the first release so you can save the chapter marks in a cut file. At some time in the future, when the DVD file creation stuff is written, you can dig out the cut file to make use of the chapter markers in it.

NutMonkey

03-05-2003, 12:09 AM

dvdauthor (dvdauthor.sourceforge.net) creates IFO files and supports chapters and multiple title sets, why not lib-icize it and integrate it with tydemux?

If not, a chapter cut text file would be handy to parse and pass as a command line argument to dvdauthor.

Gruph

03-05-2003, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by olaf_sc
It would be a pretty trivial matter of fixing it. One problem remains the algo to deal withit is not well described. If anyone could point me to some good docs I could code it up.

Cheers Olaf

Olaf and gang,

Here is the stuff from the MPEG2-VCR Help file. It's not real informational but explains it a bit. The thing about the MPEG2-VCR GOP Fixer is that it will do this, but it won't do it without resizing the GOPs which muddies up the video a bit when it splits the GOPs. It'd be cool to be able to get the SMPTE stuff in there without the GOP resizer.

Thanks again!

Gruph

GOP Time Code Error

In MPEG compression, a video sequence is divided into groups of image frames. A typical example is coded pictures of "I B B P B B P B B P B B P B B”. This is called a GOP (group of pictures). A header is usually stored before the I-picture, and is called a GOP header, and it’s usually an 8-byte data segment. One of the important information stored in this header is a 25-bit integer, called a SMPTE time code (SMPTE: Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers). This time code refers to the first picture of the GOP in display order.

This GOP header and its time code provide very convenient points for managing a coded MPEG movie. It allows our MPEG editor to randomly access a lengthy MPEG movie very efficiently. However, this also makes the editor highly dependent on the accuracy of time codes in the GOP header, especially dependent on the continuity of the time codes in a complete MPEG movie. Unfortunately, an MPEG movie may have errors in the time code, or the time code may be disrupted, or the time code may not correctly reflect the coded image sequence. When any of these happens to an MPEG file, we consider it a GOP time code error.

The GOP fixer tool will correct the GOP time code errors based on its calculation from the complete video sequence. It will only modify those errorous 25-bit integers.

wallace

03-05-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by olaf_sc
lib/DLL of all ty sub projects: 100% - all sub parts of "tydemux" (name suggestions for the project wellcommed) are now accessable as libraries on Unix and as a big DLL under Windows.

Well since the obvious selection TyTool is already being used elsewhere, may I suggest you rename this to TyStudio. This name applies now a lot more than in the past because of all the advanced features and abilities you have (and plan to) add.

MrBassMan

03-05-2003, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by NutMonkey
dvdauthor (dvdauthor.sourceforge.net) creates IFO files and supports chapters and multiple title sets, why not lib-icize it and integrate it with tydemux?

If not, a chapter cut text file would be handy to parse and pass as a command line argument to dvdauthor.

You can save the cut file from the editor. This is in text format so you can parse this file to get the chapter marks and format it for use in dvdauthor.

otakucode

03-05-2003, 10:54 PM

NAMES:
TYphoid
TYger
RealiTY
NudiTY (this one would be fun to search for if a homepage is setup ;)
TYrant
BeauTY
TYtanic
TY-bo (specializes in exercise shows ;)
TY 2000 (cause 2000 will ALWAYS sound SO futuristic!)

Those are just a few off the top of my head... I thought up a good one last night when I first saw the question, but I forgot it...

OtakuCODE

olaf_sc

03-06-2003, 12:28 AM

It looks like the name is going to be TyStudio - if nothing drastical happens. Hence consider the name taken :).

Cheers, The TyStudio Team

phrend

03-06-2003, 06:11 AM

I'm not a talented programmer, so I thought that I'd offer a couple of suggestions <requests?> for the real programmers...

We have TiVo MPEG, SVCD, and DVD support (yea!)... how about XVCD (MPEG1) support? XVCD supports resolutions higher than SVCD's and play on <some> DVD players and any computer:
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/vcd
http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/shownotes/story/0,24330,3418851,00.html

For those of you that are working on a tool to convert TiVo MPEG's to DivX (I can't wait for this!), perhaps you would be interested in converting to the <open source> XviD Codec too:
http://www.xvid.org/
http://www.divx-digest.com/software/xvid.html

Thanks!

wallace

03-06-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by olaf_sc
It looks like the name is going to be TyStudio - if nothing drastical happens. Hence consider the name taken :).

Cheers, The TyStudio Team

YEAH!
Finally a small idea of mine actually makes sense to other people, lol :D

misato

03-06-2003, 09:08 PM

Current remuxed ty streams are palatible to mpeg mediator, so that's a path to open DML avi, but it's one processing step and one intermediate file more than I'd prefer, if I had my druthers.

So... have you tested the output of 0.5.0 as input to virtual dub? And if it fails, could y'all please take a look to see if it would be practical to fix that? It would be a great thing if remuxed ty's were to become compatible with Virtual Dub. Or alternatively, I read somewhere that there's a plugin architecture... could a frame server plugin be made for tyStudio? (That would effectively accomplish the same thing. MPEG -> BMP code might be taken from Mediator or Flask to accomplish that, I'd think?)

Thanks!

FreydNot

03-07-2003, 02:39 AM

I use a simple avisynth script to edit with virtualdub. You have to make a .d2v file with DVD2AVI, but then its YUV data right through the editor.

Something like this works for me when I've already created a wave file from the mp2...

video = mpeg2source("filename.d2v")
audio = WAVSource("filename.wav")
AudioDub(video, audio)

And this works with directly with the mp2 file...

video = mpeg2source("file.d2v")
audio = MPASource( "file.mpa", normalize = false)
AudioDub(video, audio)

You will need to have the mpeg video input and mpeg audio input plugins in the avisynth plugin directory, but those are easy to find from the web site.

I also use this aviscript code to conver to DVD resolution while maintaining the interlaced frames...

SeparateFields(last)
LanczosResize(last, 720, 240)
Weave(last)

MrBassMan

03-07-2003, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by misato
could a frame server plugin be made for tyStudio? (That would effectively accomplish the same thing. MPEG -> BMP code might be taken from Mediator or Flask to accomplish that, I'd think?)

Thanks!

I'm not sure if this is what you mean but the tyEditor can save stills in various common formats.

The intention is that these can be used for DVD menus.

pawl

03-07-2003, 06:01 PM

Thanks for the input on the DShow filter guys, guess I'll give it a shot. ;) If everthing goes well, maybe a TYsource plugin for Avisynth might be nice...

misato

03-07-2003, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by rc3105
tydemux -> mplex -> mpeg files work fine with virtualdubmpeg, have since 4.0.

--
Riley

Virtualdub mpeg? Hm, I'll go google for that; I hadn't heard of that one. Is that a fork from the main virtualdub development branch? Do you know to what extent it's diverged from the main branch?

misato

03-07-2003, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by MrBassMan
I'm not sure if this is what you mean but the tyEditor can save stills in various common formats.

The intention is that these can be used for DVD menus.

Not what I was looking for, but it *does* sound like a useful feature for DVD authoring. :)

wallace

03-07-2003, 11:39 PM

Olaf,
I just want to make a suggestion. When you and the rest of the TyStudio team are set to release 0.5 will you please make a new sticky thread? This one is getting so long and the title of it does not really apply as much anymore. I think it would make it easier for newcomers to figure out what is going on as well. Anyways, just a thought I had that you might want to consider.

misato

03-08-2003, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by rc3105
yah, it's a seperate branch, but so far it hasn't really diverged and I don't think it plans to.

it's keeping pace with the main line and just adding mpeg support w/o any dvd2avi-avisynth wierdness.

--
Riley

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I haven't been able to find it. Do you have a link?

olaf_sc

03-08-2003, 05:49 AM

Yes intend to make a new sticky thread. New name new tools etc... besides as you say it's a bit long this one :).

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by wallace
Olaf,
I just want to make a suggestion. When you and the rest of the TyStudio team are set to release 0.5 will you please make a new sticky thread? This one is getting so long and the title of it does not really apply as much anymore. I think it would make it easier for newcomers to figure out what is going on as well. Anyways, just a thought I had that you might want to consider.

misato

03-08-2003, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by rc3105
hrm... looks like development has changed direction slightly

http://virtualdubmpg2.sourceforge.net/

http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtualdubmod/

--
Riley

Aha! I was searching on "MPEG" when I should have been searching on "MPG".

Thanks!

olaf_sc

03-10-2003, 04:43 AM

SMTPE GOP time code correction is now a part of tydemux ;).

In form of progress I can add that we are porting everything to MacOS X now - hence if we don't run into gigantic problems the editor will run under Mac to.

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by Gruph
Olaf and gang,

Here is the stuff from the MPEG2-VCR Help file. It's not real informational but explains it a bit. The thing about the MPEG2-VCR GOP Fixer is that it will do this, but it won't do it without resizing the GOPs which muddies up the video a bit when it splits the GOPs. It'd be cool to be able to get the SMPTE stuff in there without the GOP resizer.

Thanks again!

Gruph

tungsten2k

03-10-2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by olaf_sc
if we don't run into gigantic problems the editor will run under Mac to. just curious... native aqua or under X11 ?

Gruph

03-10-2003, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by olaf_sc
SMTPE GOP time code correction is now a part of tydemux ;).

In form of progress I can add that we are porting everything to MacOS X now - hence if we don't run into gigantic problems the editor will run under Mac to.

Cheers Olaf

Olaf,

You seriously rock! thanks for starting a pretty damn cool project! and thanks team for continuing the effort :)

-Gruph

MrBassMan

03-10-2003, 06:25 PM

Getting close folks - this is a screen shot of editing a file.

Now the clever part - the file is still on my TIVO :cool: it only gets transfered during the demux/transcode/mplex process.

Olaf has come up with some neat programs that run on the tivo to serve the editor and do background indexing.

The rest of the team are beavering away with transcoding, MAC port etc. I'm the lucky guy that gets to tie it all together.

mpauley

03-10-2003, 06:34 PM

drool.....drool....

ronnythunder

03-10-2003, 06:35 PM

dammit mrbassman, you're givin us all a collective woody here... :)

ronny

laserfan

03-10-2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by MrBassMan
Getting close folks...Ok, now you've really crossed the line! Some of us are going nuts waiting on an easier solution to gettin' busy w/our overloaded hard drives.

Extracting the program AFTER editing is the dream scenario, especially for one of my pet uses which is saving individual musical performances from various variety programs.

Please say we're only days away now, not weeks!

RxMan

03-10-2003, 07:28 PM

Now the clever part - the file is still on my TIVO

Are you saying that the file is edited and remains on the Tivo? Edit out commercials and the file never leaves home?

MrBassMan

03-10-2003, 08:03 PM

No - the file is not modified on the Tivo.

The editor gets frames from the TIVO for display and you select cut points. When you have finished, you press the process button and the file is then streamed across the network to demux. Demux cuts out the bits you don't want using the cut list. The output of demux is streamed to the audio transcoder and to mplex which outputs an MPEG file to your hard disk - minus the bits you cut out.

You can also choose not to transcode or to output elemental streams.

There is a background indexer that runs on the Tivo that indexes your files. When you open 'Now showing' in the editor, one of the columns displayed is whether the file has been indexed or not. If the file has not been indexed, it is quicker to transfer the file to the PC for indexing, you can do this from within the editor.

MrBassMan

03-10-2003, 08:05 PM

Here is 'now showing' from the editor.

olaf_sc

03-10-2003, 08:05 PM

Hello Folks,

A brief over view:

In TyEditor you will get a list of recording avalible on your Tivo. Select a arbitrary recording from the list and click ok. The index is now reated on the fly. Start editing the recoding (the recording is still on the tivo), select your cut points of your choice by looking at the frames in the window (the recoding is still on the tivo).

When done set your audio/video options - ac3/mpeg etc. and press process. The recoding is now streamed over the network, cut, demuxed, transcoded and remux in one single step - using a multithreaded process library that controls the tytranscode, tydemux and tymplex libs.

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by RxMan
Are you saying that the file is edited and remains on the Tivo? Edit out commercials and the file never leaves home?

olaf_sc

03-10-2003, 08:10 PM

Ahh a somewhat fun note is that you can actually do most of this on the tivo it self. TyDemux is now ported to Tivo and you can if you want run tydemux on the Tivo although it's not something I recomend.

Cheers Olaf

PS: TyEditor is naturally not ported to Tivo since there is no X11 present on the Tivo.

willieb

03-10-2003, 08:13 PM

I am assuming we'll be able to "cut" multiple files at once and then do a batch download demux, etc. while we sleep?

RxMan

03-10-2003, 08:15 PM

double post.

RxMan

03-10-2003, 08:16 PM

Thanks for the replies. That all makes sense. I can't wait for the release!!

newlooper

03-10-2003, 08:17 PM

olaf_sc

What about previously extracted tystreams? Can they still be used?

-newlooper

MrBassMan

03-10-2003, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by willieb
I am assuming we'll be able to "cut" multiple files at once and then do a batch download demux, etc. while we sleep?

Not yet - there are some coding issues to be sorted out first. It is not likely to happen in the first release - unless of course you want it delayed? .... I thought not.

Structuraly the programs support it but we need to change some code and add a batch management screen to support it in the editor.

Of course as tyget, tydemux, tytranscode and tymplex are all available as seperate command line programs as well as being built into the editor, you can save the cut point file and create your own scripts to continue processing off-line later.

MrBassMan

03-10-2003, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by newlooper
olaf_sc

What about previously extracted tystreams? Can they still be used?

-newlooper

The editor can open files from "Now showing" or from your local hard disk - so yes.

larray

03-10-2003, 08:38 PM

I'm trying to tie (sorry bad pun) everything together and read all 50 pages of this and other posts to get a mile high view of the tools and methods available.

So far my experience has been limited to jdiner's tools, because that is what I was pointed to first.

My question is: Is a .TY file forever a TY file? Is it a constant? Once extracted (by any tool) is it the same? (As we say at work: x is x is x).

In other words - If I'm going to extract TY's and archive them so that in the future when we have a 1 stop tool, plug in TY's and out pop's DVD's, SVCD's, KDVD's, DivX, etc... are the TY's I've already extracted with say tserver_mfs6 and TyTool valid for future versions of both/most tools?

Is there a more "acceptable" archive version? I've seen mention of a tar file (looked like a ty or tmf and some xml from the description) in another post but I can only read so fast.

I've got this thread pretty much sown up, moving on to the mfs_ftp which I'm sure will rock my world in all new ways, but if any one can solidify for me that a TY is a TY and forever will be I would appreciate it or some links to describe what I should be archiving.

BTW - this looks like an awesome tool and can't wait until it's realeased. Looks like I picke the right time to get into the fun.

dlang

03-10-2003, 09:42 PM

some of the early tytool versions corrupted the .ty file while extracting it (error messages would get put into the ty file) but other then that you should have no problem.

the .tmf format is just a tar with a XML section describing the episode and several .ty files of <=512M. if you have the single .ty file and need to sue a tool that assumes you have multiple small files you can do 'split -b 512m infile' and you will end up with multiple files infile-1 infile-2 etc which you can rename as needed for the tool you are useing. if you have a ty file in several parts and are useing a tool that wants them togeather just do 'cat file1 file2 file3 >outfile' and the result you get will be the same as you would have with jdiner's tools.

by the way I really don't like the fact that a new extention was created for this tar archive, if it's in the tar format you should have just used .tar not invented .tmf

laserfan

03-10-2003, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by MrBassMan
...the file is then streamed across the network to demux. Demux cuts out the bits you don't want using the cut list...Oh well. I was hoping it would only need to transfer those portions of the file that were needed vs. the entire file.

Now instead of lurking here and dropping all these tantalizing sneak previews, can you or olaf project a possible availability date???

olaf_sc

03-10-2003, 11:45 PM

In principle we don't drag over unnessesay portions of the file - however since this is a first release we take it really slow. Turst me a version or two into 0.5.0 the algos for what chunks to drag over will be a whole lot better. In 0.5.0 however we are only doing this for cuts in the start and the end of the recoding. Hence if you just want five minutes in the middle of the show we will only transfer five minutes. But if you want two five minute segments we will transfer every thing from the start of the first segment to the end of the last five minute segment.

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by laserfan
Oh well. I was hoping it would only need to transfer those portions of the file that were needed vs. the entire file.

Now instead of lurking here and dropping all these tantalizing sneak previews, can you or olaf project a possible availability date???

olaf_sc

03-10-2003, 11:47 PM

Thought I wanted to tease you all with a screen shot of the editor running under Linux. This is a remote session editing RockStar.

Cheers Olaf

Neutronflux

03-11-2003, 01:50 AM

Hey Olaf - You're terrible with all the jpg screenshots! I can't wait to get my hands on this utility!
Good luck and thanks for all the hard work to you and the TyStudio team!

rc3105

03-11-2003, 02:50 AM

heh, well the whole point of a file extension is so you know what's type it is & progs can be associated with & so on.

just because it happens to use tar encapsulation is no reason to stick with that extension.

when I double click on a tmf it gets converted to mpeg or burned to disk or whatever I've setup, when I double click on a tar it opens winrar.

if I want to look at a tmf in winrar (hardly never), I drop it on winrar.... easy enough.

tmf doesn't have any provision for some of the goodies that tystudio will support, so the "official" preferred format will probably be .tyx. (ty-eXtended, ty-indeXed, take your pick)

there are and will continue to be utils for tyx <-> tmf -> ty conversion so don't sweat it. right now the best way to archive is .tmf.

.tyx is also scheduled for release by the 32st of octember and is right on schedule. :-p

everyone working on .tyx utils has alpha code, the next (or version after next at the very latest) version of mfs_ftp will support tyx extract and I have some REAL hardware hackers looking at adding .tyx support to the flashable rom on some apex models.

--
Riley

misato

03-11-2003, 04:01 AM

Um, when you list transcoding as one of the steps tyStudio will perform, just what sort of transcoding are we referring to? Is that just the audio resampling, or is video affected as well?

Is there a no-transcoding option, and if so, what will that produce... will it be a legal program stream, or as legal as the tivo's internal format is now, or...?

At one point, jdiner seemed (apologies to jd if I read this wrong) that the frame rate in a dtivo file changed with time, as an outside-the-standards method of bandwidth reduction. Does this remain the case, or was that an obsolete interpretation of something seen in the ty stream, or...? (ie will the mpg produced by tyStudio have any variable frame rate extralegality, or is that no longer an issue?)

Definitely looking forward to 0.5.0...

MrBassMan

03-11-2003, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by misato
Um, when you list transcoding as one of the steps tyStudio will perform, just what sort of transcoding are we referring to? Is that just the audio resampling, or is video affected as well?

Is there a no-transcoding option, and if so, what will that produce... will it be a legal program stream, or as legal as the tivo's internal format is now, or...?

At one point, jdiner seemed (apologies to jd if I read this wrong) that the frame rate in a dtivo file changed with time, as an outside-the-standards method of bandwidth reduction. Does this remain the case, or was that an obsolete interpretation of something seen in the ty stream, or...? (ie will the mpg produced by tyStudio have any variable frame rate extralegality, or is that no longer an issue?)

Definitely looking forward to 0.5.0...

The ty stream is split in two by demux and the transcode module only sees the elemental audio stream. Video goes nowhere near it.

The transcode is optional. If you select "No transcoding" as the audio output format the transcoder is bypassed and mplex gets whatever was in the original ty file.

The transcode supports resampling to a number of common MPEG bitrates and conversion to AC3 (Dolby). This is necessary to make the stream compatible with most DVD players.

Demux fixes any audio and video sync and frame rate problems in the original ty stream so by the time it hits the transcoder or mplex, these issues have disappeared.

Mbarr

03-11-2003, 06:16 AM

OK.. now you are all being cruel and unusual. Stop tormenting us w/ your superior work :-) you might injure someone!

I've said it privatly, but it always bears repeating.. Thanks y'all.

And for those that know what I'm talking about- daiyenu... (re: passover, for those that don't. it's hebrew.)

(those of you on the team that don't get it.. well.. translates to "It would have been enough." If x had only done y, and not z, it would have been enough. If x had only done z, and not a, it would have been enough.. you get the idea. - and yes, x was God in the original.)

AlphaWolf

03-11-2003, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by misato

At one point, jdiner seemed (apologies to jd if I read this wrong) that the frame rate in a dtivo file changed with time, as an outside-the-standards method of bandwidth reduction. Does this remain the case, or was that an obsolete interpretation of something seen in the ty stream, or...? (ie will the mpg produced by tyStudio have any variable frame rate extralegality, or is that no longer an issue?)

As far as this as concerned, we had a big discussion on IRC, and the general consensus was that the frame rates only appeared to vary because of the encryption scheme used by directv. It's believed that the frame rates are realy fixed. In either case, olaf has fixed this problem completely, tystudio makes perfectly legal mpeg2 streams. (at least I haven't seen them ever fail on any muxers, demuxers, editors, players, transcoders, etc)

dlang

03-11-2003, 02:19 PM

re: variable frame rate

this is one of the biggest points of disagreement between jdiner and olaf

jdiner thinks he is seeing VFR and is coding his stuff with that assumption, Olaf thinks it isn't and is coding his stuff with that assumption.

both have code that is working on most streams, I believe there are sporatic reports of problems with both.

personally I'm waiting for 0.5 to spend much time on Olaf's code (one of the problems of indicating that a new version with lots of improvements is almost ready :)) and have not yet been convinced that he is right for all streams. Jdiner has/had an extensive archive of streams to look at and if he's right about VFR but it's something only used on a small number of channels it would be easy for Olaf to miss it and think he had found the solution.

the above is not intended to start a flamewar, just to try to outline the different approaches of the two projects.

olaf_sc

03-11-2003, 02:57 PM

Okay once and for all there is no such thing as variable framerate period. Hmm, how to put this without sounding like I want to start a flamewar.

Anyways Josh and I had a private email conversation (some weeks ago) - he wrote to me asking various questions about DVD and we slipped into the "variable" framerate issue. When I presented my facts and findings Josh also came to the conclusion that the frame rate is constant. Josh simply missinterpeted the 3:2 downpull pattern present in a mpeg stream.

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by dlang
re: variable frame rate

this is one of the biggest points of disagreement between jdiner and olaf

jdiner thinks he is seeing VFR and is coding his stuff with that assumption, Olaf thinks it isn't and is coding his stuff with that assumption.

both have code that is working on most streams, I believe there are sporatic reports of problems with both.

personally I'm waiting for 0.5 to spend much time on Olaf's code (one of the problems of indicating that a new version with lots of improvements is almost ready :)) and have not yet been convinced that he is right for all streams. Jdiner has/had an extensive archive of streams to look at and if he's right about VFR but it's something only used on a small number of channels it would be easy for Olaf to miss it and think he had found the solution.

the above is not intended to start a flamewar, just to try to outline the different approaches of the two projects.

MrBassMan

03-11-2003, 03:02 PM

I can only speak from my personal experience and that is as a UK Tivo user, ALL my streams gradually lost sync with Jdiner's tools. Yet when I reported a problem I got short shrift from Jdiner supporters who said it worked for them so it must be something I am doing wrong. Jdiner never accepted the audio sync was an issue as far as I am aware. I haven't read his thread for several weeks though.

Having work with Olaf for the last couple of months, I have total confidence in his understanding of Tivo streams. He went back to first principles and worked on the problems from the inside rather than try to poke about with the stream from the outside. His code gets to the guts of the frame wrappers, disassembles them, fixes the problems in them and then puts it all back together in the correct order.

Originally posted by dlang
re: variable frame rate

this is one of the biggest points of disagreement between jdiner and olaf

jdiner thinks he is seeing VFR and is coding his stuff with that assumption, Olaf thinks it isn't and is coding his stuff with that assumption.

both have code that is working on most streams, I believe there are sporatic reports of problems with both.

personally I'm waiting for 0.5 to spend much time on Olaf's code (one of the problems of indicating that a new version with lots of improvements is almost ready :)) and have not yet been convinced that he is right for all streams. Jdiner has/had an extensive archive of streams to look at and if he's right about VFR but it's something only used on a small number of channels it would be easy for Olaf to miss it and think he had found the solution.

the above is not intended to start a flamewar, just to try to outline the different approaches of the two projects.

dlang

03-11-2003, 05:17 PM

Ok, I hadn;t seen anything from jdiner on this recently so I didn't know he had been convinced that he was wrong. I'm very happy to find out that the two of you now agree on the low level details.

no offense to you Olaf, but just your statement alone wasn't enough to convince me, if you remember your inital statement was that everything was one of two framerates switching back and forth between them, you changed you mind from that and while your tools have had more testing since then I was waiting a little bit longer before deciding that they had really been exposed to enough different ty streams to be sure of having been tested enough to find any odd cases.

I think the best thing of all is to have two seperate projects working on the same problem becouse then more things get attempted and tested and the competition (hopefully friendly) will improve both.

olaf_sc

03-11-2003, 05:30 PM

Hello Folks,

We are actually trying to wrap things up for the 0.5.0 release, bug hunting, last missing fixes, etc... - no real date, we want to make a beta that actually works.

Just that alone make needs a lot of testing, and testing and testing - fixing, and fixing ;). The team has spent a lot of time making TyStudio and we don't want to release something half baked. We are naturally not trying to drag anyting and we are making every effort to give this present to you as soon as we possibly can.

Cheers Olaf

Originally posted by laserfan
Now instead of lurking here and dropping all these tantalizing sneak previews, can you or olaf project a possible availability date???

olaf_sc

03-11-2003, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by dlang
no offense to you Olaf, but just your statement alone wasn't enough to convince me, if you remember your inital statement was that everything was one of two framerates switching back and forth between them, you changed you mind from that and while your tools have had more testing since then I was waiting a little bit longer before deciding that they had really been exposed to enough different ty streams to be sure of having been tested enough to find any odd cases.

No offence taken, here is what happend. Before even stating codeing tydemux I read about this "variable" framerate. First I didn't think to much about it since I was busy coding the lowlevel stuff - i.e. the parser of the tystream.

Even if I'm pretty okay with DVD stuff, I was not at that point of time to good on MPEG video ES streams - been mostly dealing with PS streams. Now with the memory of variable rates in the back of my head I took a look at the timestamps. The showed a "funny" pattern ~6000, ~7500, and so on over a two frame period. 6000 is equall to 29.97 f/s and 7500 is equall to 23.96 f/s. What I didn't think of was the fact that the 4505 frame in the 3003, 4505 (7500) pattern was infract 1 1/2 frame.

My first conclusion was therefore that we switched between 29.97 f/s and 23.96 f/s. But when my tests faild I started examine it closer and naturally found out about the 1 1/2 frame - which is caused by 3:2 downpull. This is normaly only present in films converted to video. But DirecTV uses it a lot even on pure TV material since it saves bandwith.

The conclusion is that it takes time to learn and understand things. I was not wrong with my conclusion about the fact that the encoded stream switches between 29.97 f/s and 23.96 f/s. DirectTV sends send out a encoded stream that has 23.96 f/s but it's due to smart mpeg coding is coverted to 29.96 f/s in the decoder. This is done by repeating the first half of the frame and combine that with the next half of of the frames that follows. NOTE: That the framerate even if the compressed stream is only 23.96 f/s still is 29.97 f/s - we messure the real framerate and therefore take the repeate fist half of frame into consideration.

(So why did Josh think it was variable beteen 22 and 31 f/s - well he counted frames (counting the 1 1/2 as 1) over a second. Now since you can't have 29.97 frame under one second - it will somethimes be higher i.e. 31 frames and since you can't have 23.96 frames under one second it will sometimes be lower i.e. 22. Not to bash but this is way wrong since you can't messure over that long period of time (it's a very long time in the mpeg domain) - you need to messure instantly over a just one frame. If the police radars messururing system worked like this we would all be very lucky. Since if it did you would never get caught for speeding unless you where speeding even after you saw the police :) - your top speed would be equalized by the fact that you breaked down to 25 miles per hour on the interstate :).)

Cheers Olaf

Mbarr

03-11-2003, 09:23 PM

Since I can see this coming down the pipe.. I figured I'd ask now, and see what answers came up...

It sounds like there will be an option for the Tivo to do some of the work, itself.

How much processing power will be needed for this? I assume this might not be a good idea on an original standalone, while it's running tivoweb, mfsweb (maybe replaced with tystudio functionality) and telnet, and ftp...

oh- and Recording?

Now, on Series 2, the story might be different..

Any comments?

willieb

03-11-2003, 10:18 PM

OK, guys -- I'm not one to toot my own horn, but you gotta admit I was damn close with the 3:2 pulldown call in this post (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=65818&highlight=pulldown#post65818) way back in October when this variable framerate stuff first started up. I may not have gotten it perfectly right, but I was on the right track....

willieb

BubbleLamp

03-11-2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by willieb
OK, guys -- I'm not one to toot my own horn, but you gotta admit I was damn close with the 3:2 pulldown call in this post (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=65818&highlight=pulldown#post65818) way back in October when this variable framerate stuff first started up. I may not have gotten it perfectly right, but I was on the right track....

willieb

Yea, I asked the same thing in Jan too, since I was doing a lot of reading about the chroma bug in many DVD players at the time, and how it relates to the 3:2 pulldown. More here (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html).

BoB-O TiVo

03-12-2003, 12:20 AM

I have a stream that is not properly demux'ed by either of the popular tools. I wanted to upload the tool to the developers if they care to try it on the new TyStudio codebase. If you guys are interested, could you give me a current place to upload it to? (It's about 450MB).

I think the problem is that there's some satellite weirdness near the beginning that's gumming up the works.

Thanks,
BoB

olaf_sc

03-12-2003, 01:31 AM

Sure upload it to ftp://66.121.15.35

Cheers, and thanks in adv Olaf

PS: Yes you will not see your uploaded file - sec messures.

Originally posted by BoB-O TiVo
I have a stream that is not properly demux'ed by either of the popular tools. I wanted to upload the tool to the developers if they care to try it on the new TyStudio codebase. If you guys are interested, could you give me a current place to upload it to? (It's about 450MB).

I think the problem is that there's some satellite weirdness near the beginning that's gumming up the works.

Thanks,
BoB

ktivo

03-12-2003, 11:33 AM

Please excuse a question from someone who is new to this very long thread (I've read about the last 8 pages).

I'm very excited about the prospect of the overall GUI tool you are building and preparing to release as the 0.5 version. Is this a combination of a bunch of command line pieces that are already available? If so, where can I get them and will they run on OSX?

(I've seen references to 'tyremux' and 'tydemux' and the sort, but no links.)

Thanks, and know that your work is appreciated!!!

dialanothernumb

03-12-2003, 12:02 PM

Quick question: How long is the process taking from .ty to finished dvd file with TyStudio?

AlphaWolf

03-12-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by dialanothernumb
Quick question: How long is the process taking from .ty to finished dvd file with TyStudio?

Well, you can edit the video without extracting it first, then only extract what you need. That said, the only speed limit is how fast you can extract the video from your tivo.

dialanothernumb

03-12-2003, 12:49 PM

blimey! This sounds like a step change:D
If I understand right, and assuming I can drag out video at 1.5Mb/s I could have an 800Mb dvd-compliant mpg in well under 10 mins
GULP:eek:
(In the UK if we've recorded a programme on the BBC, we've no major need to edit)

MrBassMan

03-12-2003, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by dialanothernumb
blimey! This sounds like a step change:D
If I understand right, and assuming I can drag out video at 1.5Mb/s I could have an 800Mb dvd-compliant mpg in well under 10 mins
GULP:eek:
(In the UK if we've recorded a programme on the BBC, we've no major need to edit)

With the BBC's time-keeping! - You have to be kidding.

They usually start and finish a couple of minutes late which means you need to cut off stuff at the start and at the end if you've requested a recording over-run to cope with it.

dialanothernumb

03-12-2003, 01:03 PM

Too true.. I guess the issue for me is cutting out the ads, but you're right, the second series of 24 is a delicate balance of padding and checking, for me!

BillyZ

03-13-2003, 10:50 AM

THis just cracks me up -- i had to post it here in light of all the commercial cutting threads.

-------------------------------

Jamie Kellner, CEO of Turner Broadcasting, says that skipping commercials, even if you're in the bathroom, is stealing.

In the April 29, 2002, issue of "Cableworld" magazine, Kellner describes personal video recorders (PVRs) like TiVo and ReplayTV as devices designed to "steal" programming because they allow consumers to skip programming in 30 second intervals. Kellner states:

"JK: Because of the ad skips.... It's theft. Your contract with the network when you get the show is you're going to watch the spots. Otherwise you couldn't get the show on an ad-supported basis. Any time you skip a commercial or watch the button you're actually stealing the programming.

CW: What if you have to go to the bathroom or get up to get a Coke?

JK: I guess there's a certain amount of tolerance for going to the bathroom. But if you formalize it and you create a device that skips certain second increments, you've got that only for one reason, unless you go to the bathroom for 30 seconds. They've done that just to make it easy for someone to skip a commercial."

Despite what Mr. Kellner thinks, television viewers have no "contract" with broadcasters. While it may seem laughable that a powerful industry executive such as Mr. Kellner holds this belief, it's no laughing matter -- Mr. Kellner's colleagues in the television industry are suing electronics manufacturers to keep PVRs off the market.
---------------------------------

rbird

03-13-2003, 11:42 AM

It's interesting to note that Kellner's comments are nearly a year old now. It's even more interesting to find out that he is no longer employed by Turner/AOL/Time Warner. :D :D

This is my first post in this forum, and I would like to use it to profusely thank ALL the guys who work so hard to provide all this great software for freeloaders like us. :) I'm looking VERY forward to TyStudio!

Bob

BillyZ

03-13-2003, 12:15 PM

I figured -- i remember reading this almost a year ago....this thread just kinda reminded me of that --

its still kinda funny that those people have that kind of opinion.

Originally posted by rbird
It's interesting to note that Kellner's comments are nearly a year old now. It's even more interesting to find out that he is no longer employed by Turner/AOL/Time Warner. :D :D

This is my first post in this forum, and I would like to use it to profusely thank ALL the guys who work so hard to provide all this great software for freeloaders like us. :) I'm looking VERY forward to TyStudio!

Bob

Fugg

03-13-2003, 12:52 PM

octember is here??!? already!!?!!:eek:

And I haven't even gotten out my snow sandals or my basketball helmet yet!!!!

whew!

Fugg sits vibrating in anticipation...
;)

Martlet

03-13-2003, 03:07 PM

This question is kinda lurking behind the scenes in a few different threads, but I decided I should ask here for 2 reasons...

tystream.zip is posted in here, and I was wondering if TyStudio would keep these when it de-ty's.

I noticed a lot of newbie posts re: static at the top of an MPEG. Replies are of two sorts: A) That's closed captioning data, and B) enable overscan and you'll never see it again, silly.

But I haven't seen anything that says CC shows up in DVDs produced from ty streams.

Then I noticed this little tidbit from this thread...

ty_record_types listed in hex:
...
0xe01:
Closed Captions (CC), the payload is present in the extended_data field.
...

So I'm wondering, is closed captioning data available in a ty stream (if the show is actually captioned that is), and if so, is it embedded in the *.m2v file, and reproduced if you burn it to DVD, or, if it's stored in a seperate stream in the ty file along side the m2v/m2a/ac3, is it being discarded by tydemuxing?

If it's being tossed out, can it not be tossed in some future update?

I don't know what formats are accepted by other DVD authoring software, but DVDSP allows a tab deliminated text file in the format:

start time TAB end time TAB line 1 <P> line 2 RETURN
00:00:00:00 \t 00:00:00:00 \t text 1 <P> text 2 \r

Where the <P> is an html style paragraph mark.

But I'm guessing with any output with 2 time stamps and the captioning text, you could mangle it into a readable format for authoring software that lets you add subtitles (if you can't keep the original CC data in the MPEG, or want to move it to the DVD for subtitles on non-CC tv's).

rc3105

03-13-2003, 03:30 PM

yes the cc data is in the raw tystream / tmf / tyx

no it's not being moved into the mpv files or mpg (yet)

yes there are utils to extract it to a txt file for generating dvd subtitles. (mbm's onscreen cc decoder handles ty files with a minor recompile)

olaf's been looking at this for a while but he's been occupied with somewhat more core issues. (remote editing - wooooooHOOO!!!)

takin a wild guess here.... I'd say ty->cc should be along shortly after automatic tmf->vob generation. due sometime in Floopuary. :D

--
Riley

Martlet

03-13-2003, 04:04 PM

Is Floopuary before or after Octember?

bash-2.02# tycal -y
bash: tycal: command not found

Will tyStudio include tycal for future release date translation? :p

Hobby

03-13-2003, 04:20 PM

If any of you guys have ever used the "COPY TO VCR" option inside your TiVo then you have probably noticed the black display screen that pops-up and is recorded to tape just before the program is recorded to tape.

I was wondering if TyStudio could/will be able to extract this same screen - it displays the show, when it was recorded and the episode. This would be a great splash screen before a corresponding episode on a DVD with several episodes of a program on the same disc.

--Hobby--

rc3105

03-13-2003, 11:13 PM

there's no way to "extract" that screen since it's an osd overlay not actual video.

it is however pretty easy to extract that info & include it with the video. just use tivoweb/tytar or mfs_ftp to export video as .tmf files.

tmf files include ALL the nowshowing database info as encapsulated xml & can be reinserted.

tystudio doesn't directy read tmf files yet (workin on that right now actually) but the tmf2mpg utility in the mfs_ftp thread will automatically index tmfs by title/episode/date & extract a regular .ty file that tydemux/tystudio/tytool can process.

--
Riley

Fugg

03-14-2003, 05:29 PM

I figured here would be a better place to ask.....

Originally posted by alphawolf refering to tystudio in another thread
"The install process will go the same for either linux, mac, or windows: just download and run a file, follow the prompts, takes but a few seconds, and the install is done."

Will it be possible to install manually? With no "I wonder what it's doing/where it's putting files/writing to the registry?
also posted by alphawolf in another thread
"On the tivo side, just upload only one file, run it, and follow the prompts, takes but a few seconds, we even take care of configuring your rc.sysinit."

What needs to be changed in rc.sysinit? I run as close to stock as I can on my tivo and only run a server when I'm extracting. I'm inclined to believe that's why my ty's seem to be almost perfect every time in comparison to what others are seeing. Any details on what's changed/added to the system operation?
Originally posted by MrBassMan in another thread
"Although tyStudio CAN mark cuts and process remote files, all the same functionality is also available for .ty files on you hard disk."

Will any ty extraction method give the ty structure that tystudio is looking for?
:confused:

MrBassMan

03-14-2003, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Fugg
I figured here would be a better place to ask.....

Will it be possible to install manually? With no "I wonder what it's doing/where it's putting files/writing to the registry?

What needs to be changed in rc.sysinit? I run as close to stock as I can on my tivo and only run a server when I'm extracting. I'm inclined to believe that's why my ty's seem to be almost perfect every time in comparison to what others are seeing. Any details on what's changed/added to the system operation?

Will any ty extraction method give the ty structure that tystudio is looking for?
:confused:

1. Manual install - Under Windows there are NO registry settings and the installer simply copies the files to a directory of your choosing and puts a shortcut in the Start programs list.
Providing indicidual files will just cause us more headaches as people start sending us messages saying they cannot run it because they have such and such file missing. The linux installer is being done at the moment. I believe it will be simply copying files.

2. TIVO installation - I must keep emphasising this is OPTIONAL. Although the benefits are enormous.
There are two programs that run on the TIVO - both can be run manually and starting them in rc.sysinit will be optional. One is an indexer task that creates index files for your recordings to speed up the time it takes to open a recording. - before somebody asks - yes it auto deletes old index files if you delete the recording. This task is set to run at a very low priority - it took nearly 2 days to index my 120GB disk. The other program is like an ftp server for the editor. It provides the now showing list, the ability to grab frames from random points in the show and the ability to stream an entire show to the editor for downloading or for processing.

3. All my streams extracted via the TivoWeb module have processed through tystudio without any problems. Tests are going on at the moment to check for any problems with streams extracted with other tools. Until these tests are complete we can give no guarantees. What I can say is that the demuxer is an evolution of tydemux version 0.4.2 so if you could demux your streams OK with that you should have no problems with tystudio.

MrBassMan

03-15-2003, 12:10 AM

Posted here for those that are watching this thread with email notification - See the new announcement thread -

It's officially the 31st Octember.

artships

03-15-2003, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by olaf_sc
Sure upload it to ftp://66.121.15.35

Sending to SA_3x a file named 07d_failure.ty. It generates 47 records that look like:

Read Chunk: chunk 546 record: 0 - junk record type: 07d - skipping

Last edit: Since extracting the file my Sony SA locked-up. Wouldn't respond to "restart", had to unplug it. Extracted the show again just now, and it's fine. "Never mind..."

AlphaWolf

03-16-2003, 09:36 PM

Sorry guys, its not going to be today. There were numerous problems spotted by the testers. So far the results look extremely promising, and rest assured that within a very short period, we will have a very high quality release on our hands.

MrBassMan

03-17-2003, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by snoopy
I am using a currently using TYEditor to download mpg files from the Tivo. However, when trying to import into DVD Movie Factory, DVD Workshop, or Easy CD & DVD Creator's DVD Builder program, The file is either too large to fit (?? 2 gb), or the program just hangs on importing the mpg. This is not to mention that it is incredibly slower than TYTool, has to be indexed, etc. The Now Showing list comes up fast but beyond that, it's definitely slow as Christmas. What DVD authoring software is recommended for this product?

Please keep bug reports for tyStudio to the official channels - Alpha testers know what this is - any bug reports posted to DD are likely to be missed and will reduce confidence in the final product for non-Alpha testers.

Remember this Alpha test is specifically to find and fix these types of problems - the developers have found & fixed most of the bugs for their set of hardware/software but there are a lot of different combinations out there.