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farlz
12-09-2002, 12:45 PM
From another forum, regarding the upcoming 3.7 update that will allow only p4 cards to be used in UTV's:

"Are We All Screwed With 3.7 Update
I was reading some threads on the Den and it basiclly says that we will all be losing our tivo side of our UTvs very soon when the 3.7 goes into the stream. Is this true?
I will freak if my sony w-60 gets zapped!
is there a way to stop upgrade or change back yet?
Has this happened to anywone yet?
It makes sense since the only ones that seem to be getting the p4 cards sent to them are UTV owners.
I have not read much on this subject on DN forums but it is ahot subject on others."

reply: "From what I have read at various sources this will be the case. Probly very similar to the 5th gen Winking getting rid of the H card. Hopefully some brave soul will be able to engineer a way to keep our v3.5 or defeat the P4 requirement. I know to be involved with the 3.7 beta test you must have swapped out your HU.
It will truly be a sad day for those of us with UTVs when it hits."

Any ideas on blocking (or modifying) this update? -farlz

mrblack51
12-09-2002, 01:15 PM
in order to block updates, we need to be able to access the hard drive. two things are currently required: unlocking of the hard drive and a file system access utility.

1) unlocking can be done by the swap method, but if people can help figure out the algorithm to generate the password, it would be much easier

2) the file system utility is being worked on by various people. if anyone out there has one finished or could help make one, please post on this msg board.

once we have thow two taken care of, we can figure out how to block updates. until then, the only way is to unplug the satellite inputs to the unit.

jme
12-10-2002, 04:31 PM
Exactly right. There are several people working on the file system. To remove the drive password though will entail disassembling the rom, which no one is working on (well, maybe one person). So now would be a good time to speak up if you have disassembly experience (binhex image, mips instructions).

mrblack51
12-10-2002, 07:01 PM
i have some disassembly experience, as well as some experience with ASM. i have worked with mips a little, but i might be able to help. pm me if you have the necessary rom dumps, or would like me to help investigate whatever.

markb
12-10-2002, 08:19 PM
This thread seems to be about signal theft. If you are a legitimate subscriber, you'll have a P4 cards by the time any update comes out that requires it.

jme
12-10-2002, 08:19 PM
YGM :)

jme
12-10-2002, 08:25 PM
NO, NO, NO, this thread is emphatically not about signal theft. It is all about being able (or at least trying) to add drives to our utv's that are larger than 137GB, possibly dual drives and retain features that may be deleted in future updates, etc.

Hoping to block an update just means that we like the current feature set and would the option to keep this i.e. reject an update or revert to older firmware, if the update turns out to be cumbersome, buggy (microsoft would say "feature enhanced"), etc. Not that ms has ever had a buggy update before..

markb
12-10-2002, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by jme
NO, NO, NO, this thread is emphatically not about signal theft.

I respect that there are legitimate reasons to block an upgrade, but the original poster is asking about blocking an upgrade in order to continue using an HU card. I cannot imagine why he would be asking this unless he had a hacked HU card. A legitimate user might want to block an upgrade for other reasons, but not for this reason.

mrblack51
12-10-2002, 09:52 PM
markb: if you didnt notice, i am a moderator of this forum. as such, this thread would have been closed if it was about signal theft. The question, while possibly prefaced for the wrong reasons, is a valid one. specifically, can we block software updates to the unit.

markb
12-11-2002, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by mrblack51
markb: if you didnt notice, i am a moderator of this forum. as such, this thread would have been closed if it was about signal theft.

I did notice. But I did not understand why this thread had not been closed.


The question, while possibly prefaced for the wrong reasons, is a valid one. specifically, can we block software updates to the unit.

That makes sense. I guess I was just unfamiliar with where the line was between what's within the rules and what is not. It's not personally where I would draw the line, but that's not something that I care to argue about.

blahman
12-11-2002, 12:46 PM
Personally I want to block the update because 3.7 sets the groundwork for direct advertising. There is another update coming after that from what I have heard that returns the "useless" help things back to the guide screen. HOWEVER, instead of containing "helpful tips" they will contain actually advertisements now. I don't want that or any otherwise useless crap or restrictions on my hardware without my permission. Frankly it should be illegal for THEM to change the workings of MY hardware without my permission.

markb
12-12-2002, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by rc3105
now the self appointed thought police feel compelled to answer a technical question with a lecture on ethics??? :rolleyes:

Lecture on ethics? Where?

mrblack51
12-12-2002, 09:39 PM
lets keep this thread on the topic of blocking upgrades and related technical information. from this point forward, all non-related posts will be removed.

Barge
12-17-2002, 03:26 AM
This is perhaps way off based but i've only had a short while to study the board.

U1102 is a Catalyst EEProm component which appears to receive +5v to pin 7 for write enabling. Following this logic one could force it to ground, but that would only apply if this is in fact used for f/w updates.

jme
12-17-2002, 06:30 PM
Barge -
It's a good thought, but as you speculated the bootloader/firmware is not in this chip. The utv receivers do not have a flash chip as is common in many other receivers. U1102 is only a 2K serial eeprom that holds the current camid. There is also U1103 that holds the SSID. It is possible that an update can be stopped by rewriting the bootloader in the rom, U0504, but more likely the answer will entail editing one of the files in the winCE system partition on the hard drive.

UTVnut
01-17-2003, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by blahman
Personally I want to block the update because 3.7 sets the groundwork for direct advertising. There is another update coming after that from what I have heard that returns the "useless" help things back to the guide screen. HOWEVER, instead of containing "helpful tips" they will contain actually advertisements now. I don't want that or any otherwise useless crap or restrictions on my hardware without my permission. Frankly it should be illegal for THEM to change the workings of MY hardware without my permission.

There are no advertisements in the 3.7 guide. I would imagine that the plumbing is still there from 3.0 though.