Answer to daveinfla's question...

[Fugg]

daveinfla, ask questions in the forum, not in the sticky how-to thread, OK?

1. Extract the TY Stream (Video)
No problems here.

Cool. We'll assume that you have a good ty file on your pc harddrive.

2. Process the TY Stream into Video and Audio files
Most of the time tytool works fine, but what do I do when it starts showing errors during processing?

There are ways to minimize the effects of "glitches" and "holes"(running vsplit on the ty up to the point where it "glitches", then running vsplit on the rest of the ty, jumping in just after the glitch point, for example.) Get yourself to the point where you can handle a good ty from start to finish, then tackle the problem ty's.

What do I with the audio offset listed after processing?

If the reported offset is over 20ms, I try and rip it again or, if all else fails, record it again. I may have seen one or two that were that far off. Other than that, I ignore it.:)

3. Process the Video and Audio so the conversion progs don't crash.
I’ve seen several references to "Resolution Fake-Out" or changing the 1st header, why?

I use spruceup to build dvd's and I change the first header of the mpv(m2p) file, using dvdpatcher, to a dvd standard resolution(720x480) before I import it into spruceup so that spruceup is "fooled" into thinking that the file is ok and will accept it.

5. Change the the Video stream properties from 480x480 720x480.
Why?

See #3 :)

Are all video downloaded from DTivo 480x480?

Yep. I've seen threads saying that some have seen 352x480, but I haven't seen any so far.

What about Letterbox movies with Dolby? Any thing special needed?

Letterbox? Naaa. It'll just look like it did on the tv. Nothing special needed. Now for 5.1 ac3 audio on some movies, I think you have to have the dtivo set to record ac3, then use vsplit to get it. Never done it myself. I've just grabbed the mpeg audio.

6. Begin Import Process for Spruce Up.
What is Spruce Up used for?

To create a dvd image to burn to a dvd.

5. Change the the Video stream properties back to a 480x480 from 720x480.
Same as above, why?

After you import a patched file into spruceup, you need to change the resolution reported in the first header back to 480x480 so that the players will play it correctly.

7. Author the DVD

...In spruceup.:)

What about TMPGenc, what are we doing during this process?

I use TMPGenc to mux(join the mpv/mpa files into one mpeg file), then edit the mpeg. If I'm gonna burn a dvd, I also use it to de-mux(split 'em into mpv/mpa's again) the file to use in spruceup.

There are several options for DVD output, how do you know what to choose?
I have a TV that does 16:9, do I choose it or as I mention above are all Tivo video 480x480 and the output doesn’t matter?

use a 4:3 aspect ratio

How does the process differ for burning SVCD's?

Different mpeg bitrate and resolution requirements.

Define Encoding?

In our world, The changing of the bitrate/resolution of a mpeg using a software re-encoder(TMPGenc can do this) to actually change it to the required bitrate/resolution needed for, say, dvd creation. If you do it this way, you don't have to "fake out" the program your using to create a dvd, but it can take 8 to 24 hours to re-encode a one hour mpeg. ....and it reduces the quality of the video.

I tried the ifoedit method, it played on a friends DVD Player, but my Cybermedia Progressive didn’t like it. Maybe because it didn’t have menus? It does play DVD-R’s created with DVDXCopy.

Some dvd players won't play "non-standard" files. Check out this guide:
http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdplayers

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Your welcome! Just don't post in the how-to sticky unless you have written a how-to!!

:)

[daveinfla]

Numbers refer back to my original ones above....I noticed that 4 was missing and 5 was listed twice! Good old cut and paste strikes again! Sorry...

1) I'm using TyTool5r2.exe (alpha #5) is there a newer version I should be using?

I take it Tivo has modified MPEG for their use and TY is converting it back to a usable format?

2) Here's an excerpt from my last ty log file. Is this normal or are these errors I need to be concerned with?

Found an OOB packet... The Video Diff is: 00:01:28.995
Found an OOB packet... The Audio Diff is: 00:01:28.894
Is it in sequence??? It is OFF by exactly 3703.916667 frames.
Nope... Not in sequence... Skipping it...
..... 2100......... 2200......... 2300......... 2400......... 2500
......... 2600......... 2700......... 2800......... 2900......... 3000
......... 3100......... 3200......... 3300.......Found an OOB packet... The Audio Diff is: 00:00:00.120
Is it in sequence??? It is OFF by exactly 5.000000 frames.
It is in the right range. Let's see if it lines up.
It is in sequence. Starting back up after the 'hole'...
.. 3400......... 3500

3 & 5) Let me see if I've got this one straight. Most of the editing programs are for DVD's so your "faking" them into thinking the file is a DVD stream, so you can use the editing tool, when in fact DTivo is really only at an SVCD resolution of 480x480?

If so, are we still getting the benefits of the aspect changes, i.e. letterbox? I've set my DTivo to 16:9 because I have a widescreen TV. Is it simply stretching it to 16:9 or is it just converting the stream back to the 16:9 it was originally produced in? How does having my DTivo set to 16:9 affect my video extraction?

6) If I understand the difference between using Spruce UP and TMPGenc...Spruce UP builds the DVD ready files that you can then use Nero to burn. Furthermore, by "Faking" it out to accept the files split from the raw .ty file you don't have to mess with converting it in TMPGenc, which if I understand makes the file a lot larger?

What about the sound? I have a Dolby receiver and want to take advantage if I extract to DVD. Is this were TMPGenc comes into play? or is there another way to capture the Dolby audio to DVD? I noticed TMPGenc has several selections for the audio output, PCM, CBR layer II, and VBR layer II, what’s the difference and which would I use? If at all.

What about burning SVCD’s vs. DVD’s? What tools do I need and how does the process differ?

Last but not least...My Cybermedia Progressive Scan DVD Player (model CH-DVD 500) is listed as supporting all the current formats and plays a DVD-R created with DVDXCopy. What’s not standard about one created with the ifoedit method besides the menus missing? Or is it possible that I need to use the Spruce up method to make it happy?

Thanks again,

Dave

[wolkowh]

QUOTE]3 & 5) Let me see if I've got this one straight. Most of the editing programs are for DVD's so your "faking" them into thinking the file is a DVD stream, so you can use the editing tool, when in fact DTivo is really only at an SVCD resolution of 480x480?[/QUOTE]

Look here is the deal.

If you are using a DirecTivo the stream comes from the satellite at 480x480 you can take this stream and archive it to a DVD-R which will play in many DVD players with the exact same stream your Tivo is using to create its picture.

Any manipulation of the stream like transcoding to 720x480 will not improve the picture.

Howard

[daveinfla]

OK I'm cornfused here, whats new!

After downloading the stream and spliting it wity TYTOOL what do I have to do to make the streams (audio/video) DVD complient?

I've read several threads that mentioned mplex vs. TMPGenc, if this is the tool of choice over TMPGenc, where can I get the latest version and does it support files over 2GB?

After spliting the files I tried do the "Fake Resolution" routine with DVDPatcher and then tried using SpruceUP 1.1 to create my DVD. The result is an invalid DVD in my Player. Other players play it normally.

I also tried using TMPGenc to convert the two files into a .mpg that I then imported into SpruceUP but the audio sync was off 5-10 seconds.

My next try, unless someone explains what I'm doing wrong and/or where and how to get mplex, is to use TMPGenc to recompile the two files to 720 x 480 and output them as two files for import into SpruceUP.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

If anyone has answers to the questions that weren't answered from my previous post above feel free to chime in.

Thanks,

Dave

[Fugg]

1) I'm using TyTool5r2.exe (alpha #5) is there a newer version I should be using?

You got it, buddy! That's the latest version as of today.

I take it Tivo has modified MPEG for their use and TY is converting it back to a usable format?

The "mpeg" on a dtivo is the stream just as dtv sends it. It is dtv's standard format, the dtivo just writes the stream to disk using a "media file system"(?). Tytool just grabs blocks of data from the disk(fsids) and sends it out. It's the splitting programs that convert it into a mpeg format that we can use.

2) Here's an excerpt from my last ty log file. Is this normal or are these errors I need to be concerned with?

Found an OOB packet... The Video Diff is: 00:01:28.995
Found an OOB packet... The Audio Diff is: 00:01:28.894
Is it in sequence??? It is OFF by exactly 3703.916667 frames.
Nope... Not in sequence... Skipping it...
..... 2100......... 2200......... 2300......... 2400......... 2500
......... 2600......... 2700......... 2800......... 2900......... 3000
......... 3100......... 3200......... 3300.......Found an OOB packet... The Audio Diff is: 00:00:00.120
Is it in sequence??? It is OFF by exactly 5.000000 frames.
It is in the right range. Let's see if it lines up.
It is in sequence. Starting back up after the 'hole'...
.. 3400......... 3500

The first is a normal hiccup and should not cause any problems. The second, the one that mentions a "hole", is a missing piece of the stream. There's some info that should be there, but for some reason, it's missing. See jdiner's first explanation of this in the thread:
http://dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16374&perpage=40&pagenumber=2
...about halfway or more down the page. The newer tools that jdiner is testing and soon to release and olaf has released do a much better job of dealing with this than vsplit13 did. I use to get around this when I saw it by running vsplit on the ty up to the point where it found the "hole", then running vsplit on the rest of the ty, jumping in just after the "hole".

3 & 5) Let me see if I've got this one straight. Most of the editing programs are for DVD's so your "faking" them into thinking the file is a DVD stream, so you can use the editing tool, when in fact DTivo is really only at an SVCD resolution of 480x480?

The files are changed to "fool" the dvd authoring program into accepting it, when it's actually not a "dvd compliant video stream". I use tmpgenc to edit and it's not necessary to do anything to a good muxed file to do it. It's only necessary to do it to get spruceup to accept the file to burn onto a dvd.

If so, are we still getting the benefits of the aspect changes, i.e. letterbox?

Nope. it's all 480x480 so far.

I've set my DTivo to 16:9 because I have a widescreen TV. Is it simply stretching it to 16:9 or is it just converting the stream back to the 16:9 it was originally produced in?

If I'm not mistaken, it's just stretching it to 16:9

How does having my DTivo set to 16:9 affect my video extraction?

I have no Idea. Set it to 4:3 and see if you see any difference.

6) If I understand the difference between using Spruce UP and TMPGenc...Spruce UP builds the DVD ready files that you can then use Nero to burn. Furthermore, by "Faking" it out to accept the files split from the raw .ty file you don't have to mess with converting it in TMPGenc, which if I understand makes the file a lot larger?

I don't know how much bigger it gets, but I know it lowers the quality.

What about the sound? I have a Dolby receiver and want to take advantage if I extract to DVD. Is this were TMPGenc comes into play? or is there another way to capture the Dolby audio to DVD? I noticed TMPGenc has several selections for the audio output, PCM, CBR layer II, and VBR layer II, what’s the difference and which would I use? If at all.

I just use the normal mpeg audio, so I can't help much there, but I know jdiner's and olaf's tools can extract ac3. You'll have to search a little for that one.

What about burning SVCD’s vs. DVD’s? What tools do I need and how does the process differ?

I tried burning svcd's once. It looked like crap compared to the original. Some here do it that way, maybe they can help.

Last but not least...My Cybermedia Progressive Scan DVD Player (model CH-DVD 500) is listed as supporting all the current formats and plays a DVD-R created with DVDXCopy. What’s not standard about one created with the ifoedit method besides the menus missing? Or is it possible that I need to use the Spruce up method to make it happy?

I have a apex3501(3601?) that was not "happy" with anything I burnt with ifoedit. I don't know the technical details of why, but spruce has been working 100% for me.

Thanks again,

Dave

You Bet!!
:)

[Fugg]

After downloading the stream and spliting it wity TYTOOL what do I have to do to make the streams (audio/video) DVD complient?

Either fake it with the dvdpatcher method or convert the entire file to 720x480 in tmpgenc and just live with the quality reduction. ...it can also take from 8 to 24 hours to convert an entire 1 hour mpeg...

I've read several threads that mentioned mplex vs. TMPGenc, if this is the tool of choice over TMPGenc, where can I get the latest version and does it support files over 2GB?

I've had better luck using tmpgenc, but each to his own!
Can someone post a link to mplex for win32???? I can't find one....

After spliting the files I tried do the "Fake Resolution" routine with DVDPatcher and then tried using SpruceUP 1.1 to create my DVD. The result is an invalid DVD in my Player. Other players play it normally.

Some of the users on vcdhelp.com say that it's pretty hit-n-miss with dvd's on a CH-DVD 500. That's why I went with the 1100w. it'll play everything!!!

I also tried using TMPGenc to convert the two files into a .mpg that I then imported into SpruceUP but the audio sync was off 5-10 seconds.

Try using olaf's tool or wait for jdiner's new ones. You'll have much better luck!

My next try, unless someone explains what I'm doing wrong and/or where and how to get mplex, is to use TMPGenc to recompile the two files to 720 x 480 and output them as two files for import into SpruceUP.

That should work! ...it takes forever and good luck on the quality!!

Good Luck!!