View Full Version : Some info needed from those of you that are making good DVDs...

01-17-2003, 03:41 AM
The editor is basically done. I am just waiting on feedback from 1 or 2 of the testers to make sure I closed the memory leaks et al...

So I have gotten to the stage of trying to put something onto a DVD-R and play it in my DVD player as that finishes the next round of work completely.

But in an attempt to make things "easier" for myself I started with that I thought was a good source. I.e. avoided the resolution issues and the frame-rate problems by making a brand new mpeg using tmpgenc in DVD format, size resolution data rate etc...

Then I used ifoedit to make the .ifo and .bup files and then used nero burning rom to burn it out.

My DVD player, an APEX 600a with updated firmware in the drive, recognizes the disk as a DVD disk upon loading, but when I hit play I get a "disk error" on the tv screen immediately and then nothing. I tried it in my siblings DVD drive and I got exactly the same results. Also an APEX but an 1100w player.

So I took the disk to the local wal-mart and tried again. 2 machines there a Toshiba and an RCA played the disk, but others failed. Some to even recognize the disk. For those that seemed to play they were not hooked up to a TV screen so all I could tell what was the display on the DVD player itself said...

I fear I am still doing something wrong. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions, pointers to docs on a decent working way to get to a working baseline? I would really love some help.

Once I know that things general are working I think that finishing the VOB output for the DVDs will be relatively simple. I just can't figure out how to get from here to there yet.


01-17-2003, 03:51 AM
Ok. One further comment. For anyone that reads this and decides to reply. Please put as much information in as possible. The programs you use, the versions if possible. The settings you use. The steps you take. Until I can burn a good disk I can't tell if my stuff doesn't work because of something I did or because of something I am doing during the DVD/IFO/Authoring/burn phase itself.

Many thanks to one and all...


01-17-2003, 04:45 AM

01-17-2003, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by jdiner
Ok. One further comment. For anyone that reads this and decides to reply. Please put as much information in as possible.
dsr6000->tytool->res patch->DVD Maestro 2.9->Nero>A05->Princo "Silver Printable 2.0"->Apex 3201->Infocus LP500->eyes->brain->:D

01-17-2003, 09:38 AM
--jdiner It's been posted on other boards that Nero 5.5.10 doesn't make DVDs reliably. It wa suggested that you use a older version.

Nero has admitted that 5.5.10 has problems created DVD's that aren't playable in standalone DVD players.

01-17-2003, 10:00 AM
I have had the greatest success using a modified 1n and the newest beta vsplit to get the elementals.

I use simple mux in tmpgenc plus 2.5(ver., merge and cut to slice out the commercials, then a simple demux.

I've found that I don't have to demux the files after editing. I just use dvdpatcher on the .mpg file. no problems and it cuts a step off!

I patch the first header in the mpv(or .mpg) to 720x480, 3.5mbps using dvdpatcher(ver1.05b/4.05.2002),

import into spruceup(full ver. 1.1, build 1106)
it was at this point where I had problems using any other version of vsplit other than the above mentioned versions. "temporal" errors and the like, in the importing step...,

allow it to crash after creating support files,

Repatch the headers back to 480x480, but I leave the bitrate at 3.5m.

Start spruce again, import the files again(this time it doesn't crash), create menus, create a title set and burn using a udf format.

pioneer a04 using memorex, sony and tdk -r and -rw media, burning with the software that came with the a04.(Veritas' RecordNowDX ver.4.11, build 400B71a.332(PAU))

watching on an apex1100w(-r and -rw) and an apex3501(-r only).

Very clean and easy.

too easy...


let me know if you need any of the above mentioned proggies...

...btw, when I used ifoedit to create a dvd, it would play on the 1100w, but not on the 3501. I saw the same symptoms you noted above with your 600.

01-17-2003, 10:02 AM
When you make a dvd using Nero, you need to select DVD UDF format and not the default DVD Video. Use UDF 1.02. That format is more compatible with players. The DVD Video in Nero is a different UDF format and can cause problems.

I have created a couple of dvd's using Spruce Up and DVD patcher on and extracted TiVo stream and it played just fine in my PS2 (which is now giving me disk read problems on all of my dvds) and my Sampo dvd player.

Eagerly awaiting the release of the complete package.


01-17-2003, 10:12 AM
Actually, it might be hard for people to offer any help when we can't examine your vobs directly with various tools like IfoEdit to try to find the problems.

Maybe you should consider releasing it with the VOB stuff still in beta. The muxing/video editor is plenty for us to chew on and the vob generation features can be considered in beta test.

As always, do what you want and release it as and when it suits you. It's still a hobby.

01-17-2003, 10:58 AM
THIS IS NOT INTENDED AS A DEMAND or even a request, just really FYI. Nero has available an API so you could enable burn directly from your program.


I have no idea what's involved in including this feature, if programming it in is something that involves little time than you might consider adding it. BTW the user must have the full version of Nero installed in his computer.

01-17-2003, 11:15 AM
What I'll check is:

- use another version of Nero (I'm using ok)
- burn with other options (instead of DVD video, DVD UDF and select diff version like 1.02, 1.05 ...)
- check the firmware on your 600a loader, I just upgraded from LD9 to LD12 and now DVDR works, check darrenk site.
- try another media (other manufacturer, use latest CDspeed to check manufacturer)

maybe with this you can find a solution.

01-17-2003, 11:55 AM
In my experience, the DVD-R needs a menu for a player to recognize it as a DVD. For this Nero Express may be ideal.

01-17-2003, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by artships
In my experience, the DVD-R needs a menu for a player to recognize it as a DVD. For this Nero Express may be ideal.

I have seen the same thing, all of my DVD-R/RW's need to have menus or they will not play.

01-17-2003, 06:36 PM
In my experience, the DVD-R needs a menu for a player to recognize it as a DVD.

Not true, Grasshopper! If you use IFOEdit to author a DVD, it will autostart when placed in a DVD player. The same holds true if you use SpruceUp without a menu. Just drag the video clip to the first small window just below the main window where your menu would normally be placed. This will tell the DVD player that this is the first item to be shown when the DVD is inserted in the player.

Josh, Here's a couple of easy methods for burning DVDs:

IFOEdit Method

Extract and split tystream using Tytool (I believe you are already familiar with it)
Open IFOEdit (v0.96 Beta 1) and select "DVD Author" menu at top of window.
Select "Author new DVD" from drop-down menu.
Click on box next to Video window and select desired m2v file.
Click on desired box next to Audio window and select corresponding m2a file.
Click on box next to Position window and select CELLTIMES.TXT file (this adds chapter stops at pre-seleceted intervals).
Highlight m2a file and enter audio offset value in Delay (ms): box below the word "Audio".
Click OK and the DVD will be compiled.
Burn with Nero as DVD Video.

SpruceUp Method - Autostart DVD

Extract and split tystream using Tytool.
Patch 1st header of m2v file using DVD Patcher (set Bitrate to anything, aspect ratio to 4:3, Patch first header only, Horizontal resolution to 720; vertical resolution sets itself when m2v file is selected via Browse button); leave DVD Patcher window open.
Open SpruceUp and click on filmstrip tab at top.
Right-click inside left-hand window and select Add Media Asset...
Select desired m2v file and select Open; m2v file imports, followed by m2a file; error message may be displayed regarding last audio frame (ignore it); 2nd error message will be displayed indicating that SpruceUp has a problem and will close.
After SpruceUp has closed, patch 1st header back to 480X480 using DVD Patcher.
Open SpruceUp and re-import m2v file as before; file will show up in left-hand window.
Drag file to small window below main viewing window.
Right-click on video file and select Clip Properties.
Add chapter stops by moving slider below viewing window to desired point and click button with red flag; mouse cursor provides coarse adjustment in timeline (approx 15-second intervals); cursor arrows step in 1-second increments; close preview window when finished adding chapter stops.
Select Simulate button (2); movie will autoplay in main window; click on chapter advance button just to the right of the chapter indication box to advance to next chapter; hit stop button when finished; corrections can be made at any time via the Author option (1).
Click on Export button (3) when satisfied with project; add a name for the disk in the upper right.
Select "Output to" Title Set.
Save project and select Write; project is compiled to a title set.
Burn to DVD with Nero.

SpruceUp Method with Menu

Repeat all steps in above method up to 1st asterisk (*)
Click on Backgrounds tab at top left; select a background from the gallery and drag to main screen.
Click on Buttons tab at top center; select a button from the gallery and drag to main viewing screen; position the button anywhere in the viewing area (a grid at the bottom can be selected to show what area will be visible on the TV screen); text can be added anywhere in the background.
Start with procedure above at two asterisks (**); make sure you place a chapter stop at the point where the movie or opening credits begin (this will be your starting point of the movie; note the chapter number).
Right-click on the button and select the movie title and chapter number you designated as the starting point; the button is now associated with the starting chapter.
Resume procedure above at three asterisks (***); the background with title and button will be displayed; click on button to start movie; stop movie and make corrections, as required; proceed to Export as above and compile and burn DVD with Nero.

01-17-2003, 06:38 PM
Chances are you forgot to push "GET VTS SECTORS" just before writing the DVD.

Current version of ifoedit require that after you're done making changes you completely exit the program, open it again, open only the VIDEO_TS.IFO, click "GET VTS SECTORS" and then exit.


01-19-2003, 04:20 AM
This is what I do and I have made over 50 DVD-Rs this way that play on all but one very old DVD player that I have tried.

Tytool5r2 - direct Vsplit to m2v/m2a

DVD2AVI 1.77.1 to "Save Project as" d2v

TMPGEnc Plus - open d2v/m2a files - use "cut editing" feature - transcode to DVD spec.

SpruceUp 1.1 - open DVD spec mpg and "create title set"

Nero - drop VOBs into Nero and burn DVD using "DVD Video" template. This works for me. I haven't tried the "UDS/ISO" method mentioned earlier. I'll try that sometime soon.

01-19-2003, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by justme
TMPGEnc Plus - open d2v/m2a files - use "cut editing" feature - transcode to DVD spec. ...

How long does this step take? How fast a computer do you have?

01-21-2003, 02:12 AM
I have a dual P3, 1GHz system, running Win2000. It takes about 5-6 hours to transcode a typical 1.5 hour movie. Obviously I run this while I am sleeping and/or at work. You can run a batch of encodes with TMPGEnc.

01-21-2003, 02:35 AM
Here's my simple method for burning DVD's:

1) Extract .ty stream via MFSStream and TivoWeb from my Sony T60
2) Use VSPLIT13C.EXE to split .ty into .m2v and .m2a
3) Use IfoEdit (version 0.95); DVD Author, Author New DVD, Select .m2v and .m2a files and let it create the .IF0, .BUP and .VOB files
4) Uses Nero to burn a DVD-Video disc. Put all the .IF0, .BUP and .VOB file into the VIDEO_TS folder and burn disc

Of course there is no menu, but works in all the DVD players I have tried. I'm sure it would have problems in older playes as their firmware, to my understanding, does not like DVD-R

AMD Athlon 1700+
Pinoeer A05 DVD-R/RW

01-21-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by captain_video

IFOEdit Method

Extract and split tystream using Tytool (I believe you are already familiar with it)
Open IFOEdit (v0.96 Beta 1) and select "DVD Author" menu at top of window.
Select "Author new DVD" from drop-down menu.
Click on box next to Video window and select desired m2v file.
Click on desired box next to Audio window and select corresponding m2a file.
Click on box next to Position window and select CELLTIMES.TXT file (this adds chapter stops at pre-seleceted intervals).
Highlight m2a file and enter audio offset value in Delay (ms): box below the word "Audio".
Click OK and the DVD will be compiled.
Burn with Nero as DVD Video.

I'm slightly confused as to what to enter for the audio offset value.
Basically I don't know whether to enter a negative or positive value depending on whether vsplit says the audio is early or late.

eg if vsplit says the audio plays 10ms late do I enter -10 to indicate that you need to advance the audio by 10ms or do I enter 10 to indicate to Ifoedit that the audio is late by this amount?

Apart from that this method works great for me using a UK Tivo and a Scan SC2000 player.

01-21-2003, 09:47 PM
Enter the value exactly as it appears in the txt file that is produced with the split tystream. If it says -10ms then enter a "-10" value in the appropriate box.

01-21-2003, 10:19 PM
Captain Video,

Do you still use SpruceUp to author/burn or are you now using other methods like IFOEdit, etc.

I am still just using Spruce and burning, but, I have tried Olaf's TyDemux a few times with good results.

01-26-2003, 11:48 PM

I had a crazy idea but not sure it works or not. I extracted the video from the TIVO and the total side of the file is 1.2Ghz. After went through all the process from creating Ifo, Vbo the total size is still closed to 1.2Ghz. I was just wonder if I could split that file into two parts and burn it on the regular CD-R with 700Mb each under DVD format and able to play on a regular DVD player. If it works then I don't need to buy an expensive DVD burner and I just can use a cheap CD-R media to burn a movie. Since it produces 2 separate dish I just simply glue them together and turn it into CD with two sides . So the cost for a 1 hour movie is around 80 cent. The problem I try to figure out is how can I split a big file into 2 separate files to burn on CD. And how to format the dish to trick a DVD player to think that it is a DVD dish. Any feedback are appreciated.


01-27-2003, 12:56 AM

Try DVD2SVCD (search Google for it).

I think DVD2SVCD will break your file up among multiple CDs and even includes a logo to tell you to switch discs when playing in a DVD player. Pretty cool.

Of course you are not burning DVD quality on CD and this doesn't replace a DVD burner, but I too send friends and family SVCDs instead of DVD's as CDs are still much more inexpensive for me to purchase.

Hope this helps you out carovery.

01-27-2003, 10:20 AM

I still use SpruceUp for all of my authoring chores. I like having menus in my videos so I can control when the movie begins. I don't like the way the chapter stops are implemented in IFOEdit as it makes the display on my Sony DVD player go bonkers when I skip chapters. The Sony will remember where I left off when playing back TyDVDs authored in SpruceUp but not with the recordings authored in IFOEdit. IMO, IFOEdit is just a quick and dirty way to author a DVD with the least amount of effort possible. The thing is, a little extra time and effort using SpruceUp will give you far better results. The authoring steps in SpruceUp only take about 1 or 2 minutes to do. The only extra time involved is the patching and import processes which may take an extra 5 minutes or so, depending on the size of the file being imported.

I also use Tytool for the majority of my extracting and splitting chores. I only recently started experimenting with olaf's tydemux tool and found that it repairs GOP temporal reference errors in extracted tystreams. In the past, if I had such an error I would have to discard the tystream and re-record the show before I would get an error-free split tystream. The temporal reference errors would cause SpruceUp to crap out during the import process after patching the 1st header. Using tydemux fixes the problem and allows me to import the split tystream without any errors.


I think you mean to say that your file size is in GB, not GHz. You can extract a tystream using tytool into whatever size you want using the options for setting initial jump point and length. Simply process and author each extracted portion to separate CDs. BTW, gluing 2 CDs back to back is not a smart idea. If you don't get them exactly centered, it may cause damage to your CD/DVD player. The extra thick dual disc may not even play back in your player. No offense, but you may want to proofread your posts before you post them. It's not easy to reply to posts when you have to try and interpret them first (e.g. dish = disk; Vbo = VOB, etc.). If you're paying 40 cents or more for blank CD-R discs you're paying way too much. Best Buy, CompUSA and most other electronic outlets have CD-Rs on sale all the time for 10 cents apiece or less after rebates.


The cost of a DVD burner has dropped below the $200 barrier (check out the Cendyne models which are actually repackaged Pioneer burners). You can also get blank DVD-Rs for 65 cents each and probably less if you shop around. I just bought a 100-pack spindle of Princo blank DVD-Rs on-line for $65.00, including shipping.

01-29-2003, 12:49 AM
I would like to thank captain_video and Phobiac for your reponses. Here is my situation


I have tried your method but the quality is shitty so I don't want that. With the instruction got from Captain_video I successfully burn a DVD movie on a regular CD-R. I still got one problem still have not figure out is how to split 1 DVD file into 2 files with 650 Mb each.


I live in Igloo Canada so thing is more expensive here. For blank DVD-R it cost $13(cad). and DVD burner cost $550 (cad). My salary is 5 dollars per hour so it takes forever to get DVD burner. Beside we donít have best buy just worse buy.

Captain. Can you help me out? I follow your procedures to create a DVD. Since I can't afford to pay for DVD so I have to use my CD-Burner as a replacement. My follow all of your steps and reach to the end when it said burn to DVD using Nero. Instead of burning to DVD I burn it on a regular CD-R and test it on one of my cheap DVD player with brand name "Shinsonic". Surprisingly it works great.

There is still one problem, because the video size is 1.2 Gbytes (make sure I got it right this time). I had tried to use IfoEdit to split the Video file into two separate parts with 650mb each. After separation I canít play it back anymore. I have been searching all the articles about splitting a file but could not found one. If you know how to do it can you reply to me? English is my second language so please bear with me.


01-29-2003, 09:51 AM
Check out http://www.doom9.org
Look under Guides -> DVD and miniDVD guides -> IfoEdit Guides -> Copying a DVD-9 to 2 DVDĪRs

This guide addresses how to split a normally dual layer dvd into 2 single layer dvd's and I think it could be adapted to fit your needs if you can pick the right splitting point. MAYBE???

01-29-2003, 10:11 AM

From what I remember about the DVD-9 to DVD-5 splitting guide, it is only applicable to DVDs that have already been authored with chapter stops and does not really apply to tystream extraction.

Splitting the tystream file is actually fairly easy. One method would be to extract the tystream by FSIDs. Each group of chunks that make up an FSID should be 512 MB, although it has been shown that some FSIDs are actually smaller. To extract by FSID, open up tytool, refresh the screen and highlight the show to be extracted. Select the Get Parts button and a list of FSIDs pertaining to that show will be displayed. Select one or more FSIDs for extraction and click on Go. Keep in mind that more than one FSID selected will result in a single file too large to fit on a CD-R.

Another method would be to extract a specific number of chunks to get a file that will fill up a CD-R. Open up tytool and refresh as before. Pull down the Options menu and select Set Length. Decide how large a file you wish to extract and calculate the number of chunks you need to specify for the length of the file. Use the relation 1 FSID = 512MB = 4198 chunks to determine the number of required chunks (it works out to about 8.19 chunks per MB so 650 MB = 5329 chunks). If you're using 80-minute CD-Rs then adjust the file size in chunks to fit. Make sure you leave about 15MB free space on the CD to allow for lead-in and lead-out tracks or the file won't fit on the disk.

The 2nd file to be extracted will require that you set an initial jump point equivalent to the length of the first file extracted. If your file size was 5300 chunks then set the initial jump to 5300 and set the length. I can't remember offhand whether you have to include the number of chunks skipped at the beginning in your total length. I bel;ieve the length of the extracted clip includes all chunks processed from the beginning of the clip so if your inital jump is 5300 and your file size is 5300, set the length for 10600. I haven't done this for a while and I tend to forget things I don't do on a regular basis and I don't have my home PC handy to check it out at the moment so I'll leave that experimentation up to you. Try it on a small extraction to be sure. Set an initial jump at 100 chunks and set the length at 300. You should see nothing happen during the 1st 100 chunks except that the counter increments in MB at the bottom. The progress indicator doesn't start up until it gets to chunk 100 and then should stop at chunk 300. Note that the MB counter will continue to the end of the show even though nothing is being extracted. Simply close tytool to terminate any further processing.

03-05-2003, 01:41 AM
Thank Again Capital for you help.

I tried the method you mention about but I got a problem. I tested by setting initial jump 100 and length 300. When I click button get and it kept download the whole file. I also tried Get parts and get selected but the result were the same. I don't know what I did wrong. When I click on inital jump I see a message at saying

Jumping 100 packets...

Then I set a length and I got

Process a total of 300 packets...

Then I click on Get and it download a whole thing. I just wonder what step I missing.



03-05-2003, 01:43 AM
Sorry I got your name wrong. Captain. It's one o'clock so I type with one eye opens. :eek: :o