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Builder
01-27-2003, 07:43 PM
can some one please give a breif discription of the two. I have tytools up and running and can extract to pc, but after that im stumped

captain_video
01-28-2003, 11:51 AM
Tytool is both an extraction and splitting program for Tivo tystreams. It allows you to extract tystreams from a Tivo as either a *.ty file (unsplit or tystream mode) or as separate video (m2v) and audio (m2a) files (tysplit mode). Tytool also allows you to split the files after they have been ectracted in tystream mode. You have the option of setting an initial jump point so that the actual extraction or splitting does not begin until a set point in the tystream. You can also set the length of the file to be extracted from a larger tystream. These options are available while in tysplit mode (i.e. splitting on the fly) or when parsing a previously extracted tystream. There is a separate utility called tysplit that is essentially the same as the tysplit mode function in tytool (both were developed by jdiner.

Tydemux is very similar to tysplit in that it splits an already extracted tystream. The main difference between tysplit and tydemux is that tydemux can fill in any holes found in the tystream. Sometimes there are gaps created in the tystream that result in GOP temporal reference errors when importing a split tystream into a DVD authoring program such as SpruceUp. Tysplit cannot fix these errors and the resulting split tystream is otherwise rendered useless as it cannot be imported into the authoring software due to the error. Tydemux can correct these errors and allow you to salvage an otherwise damaged tystream.

I do all of my extracting using tytool in tysplit mode. In the past, when I had a GOP temporal reference error I had no other recourse but to trash the tystream and re-record the show. I hadn't really been following the tydemux thread until recently so I really didn't know all that much about it either. The other day I extracted a movie that gave me a GOP temporal reference error so I thought I'd give tydemux a try. To my surprise it fixed the error and allowed me to import the entire movie without a hitch. I'll still use tytool for most of my splitting chores but tydemux appears to be a valuable addition to the TyDVD toolbox.

rd001
01-28-2003, 12:09 PM
Cap has given a fair review of the two here. Tytool has been our mainstay with hundreds of thousands of DVDs successfully burned but olaf's tydemux is becoming useful and addresses some needs that Tytool doesn't.

For the folks who want to download movies and burn them to DVD with Spruce/Maestro, I'd say that Tytool is still your most direct route and requires the least use of other utilities to get one or two movies burned to DVD.

Much as I like Tytool, I'd say that Olaf's tools bear watching and doing some experimenting with. I personally haven't needed to use them yet and don't spend much time fixing something that is working.

There are some new features integration expected shortly for Tytool as well. Both major projects are currently finishing large improvements to their feature set so expect more changes and functionality in both.

Builder
01-29-2003, 01:44 AM
Great responces....both, thanks so much. I have extracted a small recording both ways split and .ty. Now what I ultimatley will be doing is burning movies, but for now I just want to test the extractions for any possible errors and view them on my pc. Will the spruce program you have mentioned in your responce do this? Meaning, will it advise if there is an error? Will I be able to view the recording on my PC prior to burning the DVD? I have also read alot about sync problems between audio and video files will spruce allow me to mesg these to files? Finally, where is the software availble and what is latest version. Thanks again for the help and the clear concise responces.

otakucode
01-29-2003, 07:20 AM
SpruceUp is a DVD authoring program, it won't suit your needs.

And yes, sync issues are very real (and very annoying ;). The main difference I encounter between the two tools are that TyTool loses audio/video sync on about 90% of the streams I have tried processing with it. So I extract the stuff from the tivo as a TY file using TyTool, but to split it into the video and audio files I always use olaf's tydemux. It repairs any errors in the stream, whereas jdiner's tytool and vsplit utilities merely chuck out the bad stuff... which means if there is video missing, the audio gets off. I used jdiners vsplit for a long time and I would get it to the point where I could get sync... for one show, then the next would be out of sync, so I just gave up. Thank your diety of choice for tydemux!

Another problem with TyTool split files is that you can't edit them without losing sync. I suspect that the people taking stuff from TyTool right into a DVD are doing it with commercials intact because editing those streams would invariably destroy any semblance of sync they might have. For playing back on the PC I would definitely say, extract it with TyTool as a TY file. Split it with tydemux. Mux it with your muxer of choice (TMPEG, bbMPEG, mplex, whatever) and then you can play it in whatever you want, convert it to Divx, edit it, whatever.

OtakuCODE

Builder
01-29-2003, 01:53 PM
Thanks again for another helpfull responce. I have another question(why do i feel it wont be my last ) I have read that before extracting any stream you have to change the resolution, is this correct? If so. can you shed a little light on this issues as well? Thanks again!

captain_video
01-29-2003, 04:12 PM
You don't change the resolution prior to extraction. A DTivo records at a fixed resolution of 480X480. This is not a DVD-compliant format and the tystream cannot be imported into a DVD authoring program as is or you'll get an error message and the program will refuse to accept the file. A program called DVD Patcher is used to patch the 1st header in the video file to 720X480 prior to importing the file into SpruceUp or Maestro. This fools the authoring program into believing you have introduced a DVD compliant video stream for authoring and creates a set of preview files for the audio and video. Once the preview files have been created you can repatch the header back to 480X480 and reimport the stream back into the authoring program without a problem.

SpruceUp will do you what you want, but only to a certain degree. If there is a problem with the m2v file SpruceUp will give you an error message and stop the import process. A typical error is the GOP temporal reference that I referred to earlier. If you get this then you'll want to split the tystream using tydemux to fix the error.

SpruceUp will allow you to view the video on your PC in one of two ways. One way is to right-click on the clip file and select clip properties. This opens up a small window that allows you to insert chapter stops but can also be used to view the clip. You can also view the clip in the large window using the Simulate option.

otakucode - If you're having consistent problems with sync using tytool then there's probably something else causing it besides tytool. I use tytool for 99.9% of all my extractions and splitting chores and I rarely, if ever, experience sync problems. There are methods that can be used for editing tysplit streams without losing sync. It seems that someone comes up with a new method of creating DVDs from tystreams about every other day.

The best method I've tried is by setting up chapter stops in SpruceUp (Maestro should be able to do this more accurately) at the beginning and end of each clip you want to keep and then compile the project to a title set (don't forget to use DVD Patcher prior to importing for the 1st time and repatch when done). Import the compiled VOB files into Smart Ripper and rerip only the chapters you want to keep. Just make sure you keep the very beginning of the file intact so you don't lose the header info or it won't work. Just create a 1-second chapter at the beginning and include it with the ripped chapters. Do a simple demux using TMPGEnc to split the VOBs back into m2v and mp2 files (rename mp2 to m2a).

Patch and reimport the files back into SpruceUp or Maestro as you would for a new tystream and add new chapter stops or menus and compile the final project for burning to DVD. There is absolutely no sync loss using this method. Admittedly, it is a bit time consuming but not really all that hard once you get the hang of it. I've tried other methods and all of them had audio sync problems. I've tried muxing using TMPGEnc and bbMPEG and quite frankly, I think they both suck, but that's just my opinion. This is the only method I've had success with.

otakucode
01-29-2003, 05:38 PM
The sync problems I get are with SA tivo stuff, I don't know if that would make a difference. Whenever there is an OOB chunk that vsplit throws away, audio gets out of sync because vsplit does no repair of the stream. This also causes temporal reference errors but that doesn't matter much to me, I store my stuff in Divx format and not MPEG-2. I could prolly get sync if I split the TY stream around every OOB chunk and split them separtely.... but why bother when tydemux will demux them and repair the streams for me?

OtakuCODE

Builder
01-29-2003, 08:26 PM
Ok have now installed tydemux on my XP pro machine. Dragged and dropped a small ty file to test it in to the main tydemux directory per the readme and then simply doubled clicked on the batch file. A dos box opens and the code just scrolls endlessley then I get pipline not found error. Any additional help running this batch and tydemux to split a ty file would again be greatly appreciated. Aslo what is the tee.exe file used for. I try to execute that and it appears a dos box tries to open, then quicly closes. Is this program compatible with XP???

captain_video
01-30-2003, 10:44 AM
I'm not familiar with the batch file you are referring to. I would suggest opening up a command line and running tydemux manually. Make sure you place the tystream in the same directory as the tydemux.exe file. I believe the correct command is:

tydemux -i tystream.ty -v tystream.mpg -a tystream.ac3

I believe you can rename the .mpg extension to m2v and the ac3 extension to m2a, if you prefer. You can download the latest version here:

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=79714&highlight=tydemuxW0.4.2.zip#post79714

MrBassMan
01-30-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Builder
Ok have now installed tydemux on my XP pro machine. Dragged and dropped a small ty file to test it in to the main tydemux directory per the readme and then simply doubled clicked on the batch file. A dos box opens and the code just scrolls endlessley then I get pipline not found error. Any additional help running this batch and tydemux to split a ty file would again be greatly appreciated. Aslo what is the tee.exe file used for. I try to execute that and it appears a dos box tries to open, then quicly closes. Is this program compatible with XP???

There are a number of batch files out there, if you are using splitmux.bat then you need to first edit the file to set it up for your environment (file locations, mux options, etc.)

You also need to make sure you have downloaded all the other tools required (Besweet, mplex etc.). Read the headers at the top of splitmux.bat to get more information.

Builder
01-30-2003, 12:22 PM
Thanks agian I will try running it manually when I get home. Also been looking for DVDPatcher but all the links I have been able to find are inoperable. Found main site and still bad links to download. Anyone know where else I can find this program....and thanks all again for the help. I swear once I get this working I'm going to write a nice step by step how to like steve did for telnet :).

Builder
01-30-2003, 11:45 PM
ok manual tydemux worked great! Now need to Mux. Can you recommend a good mux...hopefully windows based? thanks

keith721
01-31-2003, 11:35 AM
the drag'n'drop file included in Olaf_SC's windows ZIP file of tydemux 0.4.2 works, if you copy it and Tee.exe into the same directory with the tydemux.exe executable and then copy a shortcut to your desktop. (look inside the .BAT file, and you'll see that there's no specific path pointing to the tydemux program.)

finally, the Tee.exe program does the same as a *NIX 'tee', piping the tydemux output you see on your console screen to a text file. then, it uses notepad to open the text file, so you can review all of the output from tydemux, even if it's scrolled off your console screen.

i saw the same scrolling problem you described, moved the files and installed the shortcut as described above, and it works just fine... :D

keith721

artships
01-31-2003, 03:11 PM
In WinXP explorer...

Tools -> Folder options -> File Types
push "New"; File Extension: TY; ok
Press "Advenced" then "New"
Enter Action: Tydemux; for Application browse to the tydemux.bat and select it; Ok

Thereafter double-clicking a TYstream gets it tydemuxed!

And, since I've found nowhere else to put this, if you install Ulead DVD Movie Factory, look out! Its installation stream appends a directory unto the PATH variable. You must then edit the variable's value and REMOVE the trailing slash.

HTH

John,
Who just today achieved a year-long goal of getting cygwin's rxvt to work, including the "rxvt window here" (like "Dos prompt here") folder option.

gardavis
01-31-2003, 11:04 PM
if you install Ulead DVD Movie Factory, look out! Its installation stream appends a directory unto the PATH variable. You must then edit the variable's value and REMOVE the trailing slash.

I installed the Factory and my PATH was modified, but there is no tailing slash.

What is a good point to use Factory? It does not seem to take the m2a file, just the m2v.

Thanks

artships
02-01-2003, 09:44 AM
Well, I always record at 544x480, so I don't get near the authoring step until after TMGEnc's generated an mpg file, which DVDMF accepts just fine. In fact, with a lot more speed than Spruce-up. Otherwise, the main advantage of DVDMF over Spruce-up is music during menus. Over, say, Cyberlink PowerDirector, is the ability to select a thumbnail picture independent of the chapter point.

For you... Try converting the m2a to a wav or ac3 before trying to load it in DVDMF.

John