PDA

View Full Version : Tivo and the Xbox



Tiros
02-21-2003, 01:10 PM
Has anybody sucessfully burned a DVD that can play in the Xbox? It can play DVD's with the playback kit. I have a 120gb HD in mine and have also seen an Xbox media player that can play files from DVD or HD in various formats including VCD.

Since the Xbox has a broadband connector, I'll bet you could even stream video to it with the right tools.
Anybody messed with this yet?
Im gettin a burner next week.

chadbear
02-21-2003, 01:12 PM
I know someone who burns to dvd+r and plays it in his xbox.

bboy23
02-21-2003, 01:34 PM
I am a relative newbie, but I just got to the point where I extract off my SA Phillips using tytool6, cut out commercials using gopeditor, assemble using tytool6, burn DVD using Ulead DVD Workshop and a Sony 500UA, to play on the xbox. Easy and got the process down to maybe a half hour. This forum helped me set this all up in the last week! Thanks to all the brains around here!

Neutronflux
02-21-2003, 01:35 PM
Hey - A good friend of mine [Lord_Oberon] stumbled across something interesting while burning DVD's with Nero 5.5.10 -- when you burn the DVD select "UDF" format -- under one of the tabs select "Force X-Box Compatibility" -- this makes all disks you make readable NO ONLY in the X-Box - BUT IN EVERY SET TOP PLAYER WE HAVE TRIED to DATE!

I'll try to get more info on this, but I have seen it work and it made a dvd that plays in my G3 Firewire, which has one of the most bitchy drives on the planet!

Pr.Sinister
02-21-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Neutronflux
Hey - A good friend of mine [Lord_Oberon] stumbled across something interesting while burning DVD's with Nero 5.5.10 -- when you burn the DVD select "UDF" format -- under one of the tabs select "Force X-Box Compatibility" -- this makes all disks you make readable NO ONLY in the X-Box - BUT IN EVERY SET TOP PLAYER WE HAVE TRIED to DATE!

I'll try to get more info on this, but I have seen it work and it made a dvd that plays in my G3 Firewire, which has one of the most bitchy drives on the planet!

Yup... i do the same... and they play in my Xbox and my PS2

captain_video
02-21-2003, 01:57 PM
Both X-box and PS2 game consoles can play DVD recordable discs. Check out some of the modchip sites and forums for info on backing up games and the correct media to use. They seem to be pretty finicky about the recordable discs used for backing up games but are more forgiving for movies. I use Princo DVD-R and -RW discs for recording movies and they play back fine in my son's PS2 but they totally suck for game backups. You need high quality media for that purpose (e.g. Verbatim, Pioneer, or other quality discs).

rd001
02-22-2003, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by Pr.Sinister
Yup... i do the same... and they play in my Xbox and my PS2 Which mod chip are you using? Do you use XMP or just the DVD remote package to play DVD-Rs?

I bought one a few weeks ago and was ready to get an Xecuter 2 modchip but had decided to take it back because it seemed the only X-Boxers here are all doing DivX or streaming and didn't know if our discs would work. I was ready to give up, not wanting X-Box if it couldn't play the Dtivo DVDs.

I just want to use my collection of TyTooled/Vsplit'd/Mastro'd/Nero'd DVD-Rs on it as a second DVD player and I want to have a little modding fun with it.

What media are you using? I'm using the Supermediastore stuff (white label, spindles of 90) and everyone says it works okay. Supposedly, it's a generic Princo media. I've read from other sources that it works fine for X-Box game backups too.

More info about X-Box modding and DTivo discs please.

Pr.Sinister
02-22-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by rd001
Which mod chip are you using? Do you use XMP or just the DVD remote package to play DVD-Rs?

I bought one a few weeks ago and was ready to get an Xecuter 2 modchip but had decided to take it back because it seemed the only X-Boxers here are all doing DivX or streaming and didn't know if our discs would work. I was ready to give up, not wanting X-Box if it couldn't play the Dtivo DVDs.

I just want to use my collection of TyTooled/Vsplit'd/Mastro'd/Nero'd DVD-Rs on it as a second DVD player and I want to have a little modding fun with it.

What media are you using? I'm using the Supermediastore stuff (white label, spindles of 90) and everyone says it works okay. Supposedly, it's a generic Princo media. I've read from other sources that it works fine for X-Box game backups too.

More info about X-Box modding and DTivo discs please.

I use a LPC Cheapmod. But i use the X-Ecuter bios on it so it is
basically the same as an X-Ecuter 2. To play DVDs, i use DVD-X v2.0. It works great. Once you find the right media for your X-Box...

X-boxes, especially the older ones with the Thompson drive just don't usually like Princo. But i found that Ritek works in all X-Boxes
i have modded for my friends to date. Some new, some old.

-Pr.

rd001
02-22-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Pr.Sinister
X-boxes, especially the older ones with the Thompson drive just don't usually like Princo. But i found that Ritek works in all X-Boxes
i have modded for my friends to date. Some new, some old.Any way to tell which drive you have without opening the X-Box case, like by the serial number? Mine just came from Walmart so I assumed it's the newer unit. I'm wary about the DVD replacement drive option because of possible compatibility problems with games.

Pr.Sinister
02-22-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by rd001
Any way to tell which drive you have without opening the X-Box case, like by the serial number? Mine just came from Walmart so I assumed it's the newer unit. I'm wary about the DVD replacement drive option because of possible compatibility problems with games.

Usually the ones manufactured after November 2002 have the
good drives in. If you try a Princo and it works flawlessly, then
cances are, it will work with all your media.

Either way, it doesn't really matter... Cause once you find the right
cheap media for your particular X-Box, just stick to it.

-Pr.

Tiros
02-22-2003, 10:40 PM
Pr.,
Thx for the tips. I saw that check box in Nero too. So far I haven't burned a thing. Im getting a pioA05 on Monday, This weekend I'm trying to gather up the tools I need.
So far I have successfully used tytool6r1 to get .ty feal, GOPedit out the commercials, and remux w/tytool into a single file without commercials. It plays on media player fine.

I'm not clear on the next step.
Seems like I have to use some kind of DVD authoring SW to produce a file that can be burned with Nero?
What if show is in multiple parts do they need to be recombined? Does the Authoring SW take care of it?

Have you ever heard of Opto-Disk dvd-r?

falz
02-24-2003, 01:41 AM
As someone mentioned, you can stream the data extracted from your tivo directly to your xbox using smb shares, or the xbox-specific "xns" protocol. There was someone suggesting direct playback of .ty streams on the xbox via XBMP (Xbox Media Player), but this really isnt necessary. It plays files muxed-on-the-fly .m2v files perfectly as is. I hadnt touched the tivo vid extraction tools since the "old days" (netscape mime-settings to launch app, I dont remember it all), but with the Tivo Client Alpha #6 Release 1, this all works perfectly with or without xbox.

As for playing off of an optical disc (I dont have a dvd burner, or cdrw for that matter) I have not tested such things. XBMP supports both iso9660 mode 1 and 2 discs, as well as UDF format discs. VCD/SVCDs play, as well as DVDs burned. XBMP also can play "real" dvds by launching a VOB or IFO file directly (dvd menu support isnt in yet). So, in essense, it should play anything you throw at it.

--falz

Pr.Sinister
02-24-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Tiros

I'm not clear on the next step.
Seems like I have to use some kind of DVD authoring SW to produce a file that can be burned with Nero?
What if show is in multiple parts do they need to be recombined? Does the Authoring SW take care of it?

Have you ever heard of Opto-Disk dvd-r?

Check this thread (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21728) for the next step.

I heard of Opto-Disk but never tried them myself. I like
Ritek personally for DVD-R, Pioneer for DVD-RW, Verbatim and
Sony for DVD+RW (Yes i do have a Sony DRU-500A that supports
all the DVD formats except DVD-RAM)

-Pr.

simonp
02-24-2003, 03:12 PM
I have this working now. Extract from tivo to PC, encode to DIVX, SMB share to XBMP.

XBMP is still buggy and like to freeze/hang while playing a long movie over SMB. I'm sure that's only an update away from being fixed.

It looks and sounds great.

Someday I hope to have a way to automate the process under linux or windows using perl to tie the necessary commands together.

Now, all I need is a good Terabyte of Lan storage and an XBox in every room with a TV.

ID_MAn
02-24-2003, 04:42 PM
FYI - There is a bug in XBMP involving files over 2gb in size. This is going to be resolved in later versions.

I've been archiving Tivo MPEGs and watching them via XBMP 2.3. However I get horizontal lines during any scenes involving fast motion. If I convert to DivX, they go away. I suspect this is some interlacing issue.

Anyone else see this same problem?

--ID_Man

mchipser
03-24-2006, 08:44 PM
hello,

with the newest builds of XBMC there you can stream from pc and or tivo. also it has a built in dvd player.

any q's

Myk3

dishdude
03-26-2006, 12:06 AM
how do you stream directly from Tivo?

Instuctions please..

Thanks..
Chuck

mchipser
03-26-2006, 02:13 AM
first what version on xbmc are u running?

the newsest version at least the last 10 or so. just enable file sharing on the pc, then go to "my videos" and then go to workgroup / smb share
and it show the workgroup that the pc and the xbox is on and just pick the object to play

Myk3

dishdude
03-26-2006, 05:28 AM
I play things off my pc no problem with my xbox, but i can just browse out to my tivo and play shows off it?

Narf54321
03-26-2006, 04:42 PM
I play things off my pc no problem with my xbox, but i can just browse out to my tivo and play shows off it?


You need to hack your tivo, and run ccxstream (or ccxstream_S2 for series-2 units). Then make a bookmark in XBMC to your tivo, port 1400. Instructions should be included with the ccxstream program(s).

mchipser
03-26-2006, 06:46 PM
ok,

first need a hacked tivo and xbox. then need to install and run ccxstream on ur tivo. add it to the rc.sysinit file to start it at boot. then in xbmc add the following line in the my videos section of the Xboxmediacenter.xml

<bookmark>
<name>Tivo shows</name>
<path>xbms://192.168.0.100:1400/</path>
</bookmark>


the TIVO SHOWS can be whatever you want to call it.
this will add a link under "my videos" that says "tivo shows" or whatever

Myk3

dishdude
03-26-2006, 10:09 PM
Worked like a champ... CCXStream was already there so just needed that bookmark.. Thanks!!!

mchipser
03-27-2006, 02:10 PM
hey if you need anything else just post something

Myk3

SpoonsJTD
03-27-2006, 03:58 PM
hey if you need anything else just post something

Myk3

Is there anything special about HD content that CCXStream can't handle (DD5.1 audio, for example)? I'm interested in this for content recorded on my HR10-250 and was wondering if there's anything different about it that would prevent it from working (I haven't tried this, just wondering if there are any known issues before I do).

cheer
03-27-2006, 09:27 PM
The Xbox simply doesn't have the horsepower to play HD content effectively. I've tried it with HD Divx stuff as well...stutter/skip.

SpoonsJTD
03-28-2006, 03:51 PM
Is it the software? Or does the network overhead do it in?

I mean, the XBOX handles HD game output fine, what is it about HD content that slows it down? Isn't part of the point of streaming content so that the client can buffer as needed to help with playback?

bhorstkotte
03-29-2006, 05:17 AM
Is it the software? Or does the network overhead do it in?

Its the xbox cpu - well, at least for the original xbox, not sure about xbox 360, but I don't think XBMC has been ported to it yet. As a test, I downloaded a couple HD movie trailers, and played them both streamed from my PC, and played back directly from the xbox hard drive. In both scenarios, the 720p trailer played back perfectly, not a single dropped frame; the 1080 trailer played back with 1/2 - 3/4 of the frames dropped - poor little CPU just can't keep up with the overhead of decompressing that much data.


I mean, the XBOX handles HD game output fine, what is it about HD content that slows it down? Isn't part of the point of streaming content so that the client can buffer as needed to help with playback?

If you had an uncompressed video source to play back, it might work just fine - its the decompression that kills it.

SpoonsJTD
04-10-2006, 03:39 PM
If you had an uncompressed video source to play back, it might work just fine - its the decompression that kills it.

Ok, I did some reading up on video - compression, decompression, codecs, container formats, etc. etc. but I still can't answer these questions:

Is it possible to decompress a compressed video stream on the fly to output a decompressed video stream, or does it require either having the entire compressed file to decompress or having to create the entire decompressed file before streaming? If that can be done, what are the bandwidth requirements for streaming decompressed video? What decompressed video format would you pick? Indeo AVI? QuickTime? Something obviously supported by XBMC, but is there a 'preferred format'?

Basically what I'm wondering, is it possible to create a proxy 'restreamer' on a powerful PC that mirrored a tivo, but streamed decompressed video instead so that XBMC didn't have to do the decompression?

cheer
04-12-2006, 04:54 PM
I certainly think it could be done -- after all, that's more or less what Tivoserver does. Now, could it be done fast enough? Not so sure about that, but maybe.

The disk space, though, would be incredible. Can't use Indeo -- that's actually compressed, as are most QT files (not sure if the QT container supports uncompressed video). Would have to be just straight uncompressed AVI...and I shudder to think about how big a single 1-hr uncompressed video would be.

Math: for a 1080i 46-min show (assuming you've edited commercials out), figure 1920 x 1080 x 24 bpp is 49766400 bits, or 6220800 bytes, or 6.1 megabytes. Figure roughly 30 of those per second (yeah, ok, so it's really 540 lines every 60 seconds, so shut up), so roughly 180 megabytes. Per second. So that's roughly 10.7 gigabytes/minute, or 491 gigabytes for your 46 minute show.

Narf54321
04-12-2006, 05:04 PM
Math: ... so roughly 180 megabytes. Per second.

Good job cheer! That number is waaay over what most little home 100baseT networks could handle, in realtime. ;)

Even Gigabit, which I haven't really worked with, would likely be crushed, even with no other traffic on the LAN: Lessee... (1000Mbit/sec)(1 byte/8 bits) ..bit units cancel out... 125 Megabytes per second. Still not enough for a raw HiDef stream.

cheer
04-12-2006, 06:07 PM
And that's assuming Gigabit Ethernet can really push 1000mbit/sec, but history tells us that Ethernet-based technologies rarely come anywhere near their theoretical maximum. (Nevermind that the Xbox doesn't have a GigE adapter...)

SpoonsJTD
04-13-2006, 08:08 AM
The disk space, though, would be incredible. Can't use Indeo -- that's actually compressed, as are most QT files (not sure if the QT container supports uncompressed video). Would have to be just straight uncompressed AVI...and I shudder to think about how big a single 1-hr uncompressed video would be.

Yeah, it's not disk space I'm worried about since what I was wondering about was having a stream coming in, decompressing it, and streaming it out -- no files involved.


Math: for a 1080i 46-min show (assuming you've edited commercials out), figure 1920 x 1080 x 24 bpp is 49766400 bits, or 6220800 bytes, or 6.1 megabytes. Figure roughly 30 of those per second (yeah, ok, so it's really 540 lines every 60 seconds, so shut up), so roughly 180 megabytes. Per second. So that's roughly 10.7 gigabytes/minute, or 491 gigabytes for your 46 minute show

Ok, so uncompressed AVI is bad. What about some middle ground? Is Indeo AVI and\or QT compressed as much, in terms of input vs. output AND complexity of decompression required, as MPEG2? If the XBOX chokes on MPEG2 because of the decompressing required and uncompressed AVI is no good because of bandwidth, is there something in the middle? Something that still needs decompressed, wouldn't cause the XBOX to bog down, and still has reasonable bandwidth requirements?

Also, is the HR10-250 more powerful than the XBOX, or is it just a case of XBMC and everything else on the XBOX using so much of the processor that decompressing is the straw that breaks the camels back?

cheer
04-13-2006, 10:02 AM
Yeah, it's not disk space I'm worried about since what I was wondering about was having a stream coming in, decompressing it, and streaming it out -- no files involved.
Not sure how you'd manage that but I'm not a developer.

Ok, so uncompressed AVI is bad. What about some middle ground? Is Indeo AVI and\or QT compressed as much, in terms of input vs. output AND complexity of decompression required, as MPEG2? If the XBOX chokes on MPEG2 because of the decompressing required and uncompressed AVI is no good because of bandwidth, is there something in the middle? Something that still needs decompressed, wouldn't cause the XBOX to bog down, and still has reasonable bandwidth requirements?
I don't think so but you'd probably have to do some testing to find out. Take a 5 min clip and compress it in a variety of formats and see what the Xbox can handle, that sort of thing.

I may toy with that, although given my current schedule I doubt I'll get to it for a few weeks at least.

Also, is the HR10-250 more powerful than the XBOX, or is it just a case of XBMC and everything else on the XBOX using so much of the processor that decompressing is the straw that breaks the camels back?
The HR10-250 has a hardware MPEG2 encoder/decoder, so the CPU doesn't have to do much at all.

Riley has reported some success by running a more slimmed-down environment on the Xbox, and postulated that XBMC might be OK if you disable the web server, ftp server, etc. etc. I'll search around for his post. Mind you, Riley has gotten a lot of cool stuff working that I know I'm not up to...but then he's Riley.

cheer
04-13-2006, 10:36 AM
Here's that post by Riley (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=187982&postcount=450). It's actually a follow-up from where he says he's streaming HD video to his Xbox.

So it does seem doable. Be interesting to play with, but obviously you'd have to either use his modified gentoo setup or hack around in XBMC code (assuming you have the XDK and can recompile it).

I may work on this, but now we're talking summer. :)

SpoonsJTD
04-13-2006, 11:24 AM
Not sure how you'd manage that but I'm not a developer.

It all depends on the input and output being pure streams, i.e., you don't need the whole input file to decompress and start generating the output file. MPEG2 supports that (as far as I know), I would expect uncompressed AVI would to. Other formats, I have no idea. I am a developer by profession, but have no experience with the problem domain (video) so that (being a dev) by itself isn't enough. :)



I don't think so but you'd probably have to do some testing to find out. Take a 5 min clip and compress it in a variety of formats and see what the Xbox can handle, that sort of thing.

I was hoping somebody knew just based on the video specs which compressions are heavier or lighter, but this is a good idea. Since the earlier poster (too lazy to go look) mentioned that it didn't matter if it was streamed in or was coming off the hard drive, using the average output FPS for the different video formats would probably give a good relative processing requirements comparison, and then you could use the relative sizes of the formats to estimate bandwidth requirements.



I may toy with that, although given my current schedule I doubt I'll get to it for a few weeks at least.


This is pretty much the last thing keeping the XBOX from being my one-stop video appliance in my basement. I have an HR10-250 in our living room upstairs where my wife prefers to watch TV, but I'd like to be able to watched taped shows on the TV downstairs. I have a file server serving up DVD .iso's to XBMC, and that works great. I'm using ccxstream to get shows off the non-HD dtivo's no problem. This is the last video source.


The HR10-250 has a hardware MPEG2 encoder/decoder, so the CPU doesn't have to do much at all.


Ahh, it cheats. :) But that makes perfect sense for the HR10-250.


Riley has reported some success by running a more slimmed-down environment on the Xbox, and postulated that XBMC might be OK if you disable the web server, ftp server, etc. etc. I'll search around for his post. Mind you, Riley has gotten a lot of cool stuff working that I know I'm not up to...but then he's Riley.

Yeah, I've seen that, I just didn't think I'd be capable of hacking that deep. I don't have the SDK (not for lack of looking) for one thing. If I have to cripple all the other features just to get this one working, it probably wouldn't be worth it. Now if I could set up some kind of dual dashboard, then it would be more of an annoyance, but again, it's a domain I don't know very well.

Thanks for chewing on this with me.