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akeogh
02-25-2003, 05:51 AM
I am trying a create a DVD copy of a program recorded on a UK Tivo. The copy plays fine with PowerDVD but see the attached picture for how it looks when played back on my Sony TV by a Toshiba SD 220E player.

Clones of commercial DVDs play fine so I suspect the problem lies somewhere in the transfer/encoding process.

I am not trying to remove any of the commercials or add chapter headings at this stage. I'll try and learn to crawl first :)

Using Tytools V6.1a transfer .ty to PC
Using Tytools V6.1a split .ty on PC
Using Besweet 1.4 change audio to 48KHz
Using Ifoedit .96b prepare dvd files
Using Nero 5.5.10.7 burn image to DVD+RW

The result is that I get the first 30% of the picture repeated on every line and every frame:mad:

I have added the yellow bar between the two pictures!

Can anyone shed some light on this problem?

TIA

captain_video
02-25-2003, 09:03 AM
There have been numerous reports about problems with versions of Nero newer than 5.5.9.X when used for burning DVDs. I would recommend looking for an earlier version and try burning the DVD again.

newbie
02-25-2003, 09:45 AM
Update your nero to the 55107b (don't think it's your problem). Exit Ifoedit, restart ifoedit and check the option to get VTS sectors then burn your DVD. Supposed to improve compatability with standalone DVD players.

Although you don't have a problem with copies of DVDs many stand alone players have problems with the W (re-writables). Try just a + R.

el jefe
02-25-2003, 02:08 PM
What resolution is the source? If it's not DVD compliant, it could be that the splitting of the picture is how your DVD player deals with it.

akeogh
02-26-2003, 07:14 AM
Using DVD Patcher V1.05b it reports size of 544x576 at 4:3

framerate 25 f/sec and bitrate 5,800,000 bits/sec.

The disc plays correctly in a local hifi shop but exhibits the same pattern on my brothers portable dvd player in his car.

I am already using Nero 55107b and I suspect recording on a +R or -R will not solve the issue.

Perhaps a bit more reading about how how others are writing their discs is required.

I would like to hear from anyone in the UK who is writing to DVD and playing successfully on a non pc based player.

newbie
02-26-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by akeogh
I suspect recording on a +R or -R will not solve the issue.

.

Don't know why you'd assume that according to
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=toshiba&Search=Search

your Toshiba unit can handle a -R DVD but not a -RW

pukka
02-26-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by newbie
Don't know why you'd assume that according to
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=toshiba&Search=Search

your Toshiba unit can handle a -R DVD but not a -RW

Well, he actually said he was burning onto a DVD+RW.

If it helps I have the same DVD player and I've played a home-made +RW disc on it without a problem. Mind you that was a cloned DVD-ROM (using the usual SmartRipper, DVD2One and Nero), not a TiVo extracted show but it played nonetheless so media shouldn't be your problem.

newbie
02-26-2003, 03:41 PM
I've read several places that some players have trobule with both -rw and +rw. Don't know if that's his problem but thought it might be worth a shot.

akeogh
02-26-2003, 06:10 PM
I have tried the player with both +RW and -RW clones of a commercial DVD - Airforce one produced using DVD Decrypter.

Both worked well. So using that same media and about 4 others I get consistent results ( ie not working properly) unless it is a high end spec dvd player.

I suspect its because the tivo is encoding the frame at 544x576 rather than 720x576. Just need to find out if I can set same data in the ifo's to tell the player how to handle it.

Thanks for your comments.

pukka
02-27-2003, 06:19 AM
I tried this last night (my 1st try at TiVo to DVD) and I get the same results - wrapped around picture with a vertical green line.
To confirm that was with a 544x576 resolution, extracted as .ty, GOPEdited then remuxed then authored with IFOEdit 0.95 and burned with Nero.

I'll be keen to know how this can be fixed - any other UK people want to comment on what works for them?

pukka
02-27-2003, 09:52 AM
Reading a bit more, it looks like we both need DVDPatcher to patch the first header to 720x576 before running IFOEdit. I'll try that when I get home tonight.

akeogh
02-27-2003, 02:16 PM
I tried that with a version through Spruce and it still had the same problem :(



Reading a bit more, it looks like we both need DVDPatcher to patch the first header to 720x576 before running IFOEdit. I'll try that when I get home tonight.

pukka
02-28-2003, 06:28 AM
I had another few tries last night but still get the wraparound problem with the finished disc. One thing I did notice however was that I get the same problem viewing the VOB with a software viewer (Elecard MPEG2 Player) *except* when on one occasion I forgot to use DVDPatcher to set 720x576 on the first header.

kyle
02-28-2003, 04:30 PM
I am seeing this same picture wrapping problem with a 480x480 MPG ripped from a DTivo--both with or without the header patched to 720x480. (Authored with IFO Edit, burned with Nero)

I also see it with a 480x480 SVCD file with the header patched and authored with SpruceUp, burned with Nero.

I only see the problem on my SONY DVD player--I don't see it on my Malata.

-Kyle

BubbleLamp
02-28-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by kyle
I am seeing this same picture wrapping problem with a 480x480 MPG ripped from a DTivo--both with or without the header patched to 720x480. (Authored with IFO Edit, burned with Nero)

I also see it with a 480x480 SVCD file with the header patched and authored with SpruceUp, burned with Nero.

I only see the problem on my SONY DVD player--I don't see it on my Malata.

-Kyle

Don't know much about the UK streams, but what I found authoring with DVD Workshop was this. The title screen it creates is 720x480. So when I create the VOBs, there are two. A tiny one that is just the title (VIDEO_TS.VOB), then the other (VTS_01_1.VOB) which is the show. (Only 1/2hr show, so only one other VOB. So I had to patch the first header of the title screen VOB back to 720x480. After that, my Apex player was happy playing this.

xxxx
03-03-2003, 05:35 AM
I would like to hear from anyone in the UK who is writing to DVD and playing successfully on a non pc based player.

I am doing this without too much trouble though there are a lot of repeated steps because of the audio problem.

I start with a best quality SA UK Thomson Tivo recording from satellite.

1) Extract this with Tytool6.

2) Demux it with Tytool6.

3) Process the audio file with MPEG-VCR to alter the sampling rate to 48k.

4) Remux it with TMPGEnc.

5) Edit it (cut and merge) with TMPGEnc.

6) Demux it with TMPEGEnc.

7) Run it through IFOEdit creating vob files.

8) Double-click on the video sections in IFOEdit to alter the 16/9 flags (if required) and save the changes.

9) Put the Video_TS and Audio_TS folders in root of the hard drive and burn to DVD with Prassi.

All the above works fairly quickly and without a hitch, and without any crashes or odd effects. And above all without any re-encoding which takes forever. A film of about 1.75 hours recorded at best with Tivo VBR will just fit on a 4.7Gb DVD-R.

I have found that DVDPatcher only creates unusable files that crash constantly.
BESweet etc. all just crash on my PC (WinXP). All the usual DVD authoring programmes reject my video as being non-DVD standard so I don't use them. IFOEdit does the job nicely though I can't get it to alter the A/V offset.

What I would like to do is to alter the Tivo recording resolution to give me proper PAL DVD anamorphic 720*576 from a 16/9 source, keeping the bitrate at the highest level that will put a normal length film on a single DVD-R. If anyone knows what settings to use I would be glad to hear about it.

pukka
03-03-2003, 01:49 PM
[snip]

What I would like to do is to alter the Tivo recording resolution to give me proper PAL DVD anamorphic 720*576 from a 16/9 source, keeping the bitrate at the highest level that will put a normal length film on a single DVD-R. If anyone knows what settings to use I would be glad to hear about it.

I'm pleased to hear you're going from tytool extracted .m2v .m2a files to DVD without the time-consuming TMPGEnc re-encoding to 720x544 resolution. (edit - sorry I meant 720x576)

I suspect my Toshiba SD-220e DVD Player is more fussy than most, and is wrapping the video picture because the underlying video was encoded at 544x576 which is a non DVD compliant signal.

I've set my TiVo up so that medium quality setting is actually 720x576 but it encodes the show with a very noticable green bar on th eright side of the picture. Other than that it is handled fine by IFOEdit and produces a DVD that plays without wrapping (apart from the green bar).

If you do a search I'm sure you can find the bitrate settings to allow 720x544 recording but in my book you're wasting your time, it doesn't do the job properly. PM me if you need details. So close though....

Pr.Sinister
03-03-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by pukka
I'm pleased to hear you're going from tytool extracted .m2v .m2a files to DVD without the time-consuming TMPGEnc re-encoding to 720x544 resolution.

I suspect my Toshiba SD-220e DVD Player is more fussy than most, and is wrapping the video picture because the underlying video was encoded at 544x576 which is a non DVD compliant signal.

I've set my TiVo up so that medium quality setting is actually 720x576 but it encodes the show with a very noticable green bar on th eright side of the picture. Other than that it is handled fine by IFOEdit and produces a DVD that plays without wrapping (apart from the green bar).

If you do a search I'm sure you can find the bitrate settings to allow 720x544 recording but in my book you're wasting your time, it doesn't do the job properly. PM me if you need details. So close though....

Maybe i'm totally wrong here but i was always under the
impressions that :

PAL DVD Resolution is 704x576
NTSC DVD Resolution is 720x480

If you encode 720x576 this is not standard. PAL or NTSC.

Maybe if you use 704 instead of 720, you will get rid of the green
bar. Just guessing here...

-Pr.

pukka
03-03-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Pr.Sinister
Maybe i'm totally wrong here but i was always under the
impressions that :

PAL DVD Resolution is 704x576
NTSC DVD Resolution is 720x480

If you encode 720x576 this is not standard. PAL or NTSC.

Maybe if you use 704 instead of 720, you will get rid of the green
bar. Just guessing here...

-Pr.

No, you're quite wrong.. it's the other way round - 720x576 is the region 2 PAL DVD standard. If I rip a shop bought DVD it's encoded at that standard.. I've just checked.

Although, you may be right about the green bar. If anyone knows how to set up a UK TiVo to record at 704x576 then please let me know.

xxxx
03-04-2003, 03:44 AM
I suspect my Toshiba SD-220e DVD Player is more fussy than most, and is wrapping the video picture because the underlying video was encoded at 544x576 which is a non DVD compliant signal.

My player is a no-name multi region Chinese thing that plays mp3, mpeg, vcd, svcd, karaoke and various other odd files so you may be right. But you are changing the ifo flags in IFOEdit, aren't you? My DVDs won't play correctly unless I do this.

I've set my TiVo up so that medium quality setting is actually 720x576 but it encodes the show with a very noticable green bar on th eright side of the picture. Other than that it is handled fine by IFOEdit and produces a DVD that plays without wrapping (apart from the green bar).

I also get the green bar which is just visible (only a few pixels) on PC playback until I resize the player window but which is lost in the overscan of the TV when played back on the DVD player. I suspect that this bar is just there all the time, even on straight Tivo output, but that the TV overscan hides it.

If you do a search I'm sure you can find the bitrate settings to allow 720x544 recording but in my book you're wasting your time, it doesn't do the job properly. PM me if you need details.

Would you like to post them here? I suspect that others might be interested. All I ever come up with when searching these forums are details for NTSC settings. If one can get the Tivo to record in DVD compliant PAL 720*576 then it should be possible to run the resulting ripped mpeg file through any decent mpeg processing programme without re-encoding to get something that will play back in any stand-alone DVD player once the ifos are made.

The main concern for me is to avoid re-encoding which in my experience is a time-consuming disaster.

The people with DirectTivos don't know how lucky they are. We'll have a very long wait for Sky to launch those in the UK.

pukka
03-04-2003, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by xxxx

My player is a no-name multi region Chinese thing that plays mp3, mpeg, vcd, svcd, karaoke and various other odd files so you may be right. But you are changing the ifo flags in IFOEdit, aren't you? My DVDs won't play correctly unless I do this.

No, all I've done is use DVDPatcher to set the first header horizontal resolution to 720 before using IFOEdit to author the DVD. I'm kinda new to this, and I'm not sure what flags you mean - what exactly do you change in IFOEdit?
When I double click on a video row the attributes seem correct. I note there's no option to set to 544x576 which is of course the actual encoding size. Is 720 ok?


I also get the green bar which is just visible (only a few pixels) on PC playback until I resize the player window but which is lost in the overscan of the TV when played back on the DVD player. I suspect that this bar is just there all the time, even on straight Tivo output, but that the TV overscan hides it.

No, I get that green bar too, just a few pixels wide which is indeed lost on the TV. What I'm referring to is much wider than that, possibly as much as 10% of the width and IS visable on TV. I get that when the TiVo is recording at 720x576. It's *so* tantalisingly close to recording the perfect DVD video quality.


Would you like to post them here? I suspect that others might be interested. All I ever come up with when searching these forums are details for NTSC settings. If one can get the Tivo to record in DVD compliant PAL 720*576 then it should be possible to run the resulting ripped mpeg file through any decent mpeg processing programme without re-encoding to get something that will play back in any stand-alone DVD player once the ifos are made.

The main concern for me is to avoid re-encoding which in my experience is a time-consuming disaster.

Sure, I'll document the setting off TivoWeb and post them back here when I'm at home tonight.

Thanks for your input. Re-encoding is indeed a drag.

xxxx
03-04-2003, 07:43 AM
No, all I've done is use DVDPatcher to set the first header horizontal resolution to 720 before using IFOEdit to author the DVD. I'm kinda new to this, and I'm not sure what flags you mean - what exactly do you change in IFOEdit?
When I double click on a video row the attributes seem correct. I note there's no option to set to 544x576 which is of course the actual encoding size. Is 720 ok?

As I mentioned in my earlier post, as soon as DVDPatcher touches any of my files the things are made completely unusable. They either just don't play or they play and crash with assorted defects and errors. I don't know whether this is because I'm not using it properly or whether it is something to do with PAL/NTSC resolution but anyway: I just can't use it at all for anything. So I think that maybe you should try not using too. I also don't really see why it need be used, unless it's to trick a DVD authoring programme into accepting the mpeg stream, and IFOEdit doesn't need tricking as it accepts the regular Tivo resolution.

When you open an ifo in ifoedit you can just find the video streams (labelled 4:3 in mine) and double-click on them. A little dialog box pops up with several options for flags. I check the 16:9 one and close the box. Then save the changes and re-open the ifo. The Doom9 site explains this, more or less. I don't need to alter the setting to 720 but you could try it and see what happens.

My DVD player then thinks that it has got a 16:9 stream and plays it properly and the TV does the automatic widescreen switching. The picture is of course identical to the original Tivo output.

pukka
03-04-2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by xxxx
Would you like to post them here? I suspect that others might be interested. All I ever come up with when searching these forums are details for NTSC settings. If one can get the Tivo to record in DVD compliant PAL 720*576 then it should be possible to run the resulting ripped mpeg file through any decent mpeg processing programme without re-encoding to get something that will play back in any stand-alone DVD player once the ifos are made.



Ok, we're straying off-topic but here's my bitrate settings since you asked :-

*** FOR UK TIVO's ***

MinRecordQuality 0
MaxRecordQuality 100
DefaultRecordQuality 100
DefaultLiveRecordQuality 100

RecordQualityBest 100
RecordQualityHigh 75
RecordQualityMedium 70 **changed from 40
RecordQualityBasic 0

DBSBestVBRBitrate 7660000 **changed from 5960000 (so that I get 7.5Mbps encoding)
DBSBestMAXBitrate 7660000 **
DBSBestResolution 4

DBSHighVBRBitrate 3660000
DBSHighMAXBitrate 3660000
DBSHighResolution 2

DBSMediumVBRBitrate 5960000
DBSMediumMAXBitrate 5960000
DBSMediumResolution 0 **changed from 1 (0=720x576 frame size)

DBSBasicVBRBitrate 1700000
DBSBasicMAXBitrate 1700000
DBSBasicResolution 1

CATVBestVBRBitrate 7660000 **changed from 5960000 (so that I get 7.5Mbps encoding)
CATVBestMAXBitrate 7660000 **
CATVBestResolution 4

CATVHighVBRBitrate 3660000
CATVHighMAXBitrate 3660000
CATVHighResolution 2

CATVMediumVBRBitrate 5960000
CATVMediumMAXBitrate 5960000
CATVMediumResolution 0 **changed from 1 (0=720x576 frame size)

CATVBasicVBRBitrate 1700000
CATVBasicMAXBitrate 1700000
CATVBasicResolution 1

RooftopBestVBRBitrate 5960000
RooftopBestMAXBitrate 5960000
RooftopBestResolution 4

RooftopHighVBRBitrate 3660000
RooftopHighMAXBitrate 3660000
RooftopHighResolution 2

RooftopMediumVBRBitrate 5960000
RooftopMediumMAXBitrate 5960000
RooftopMediumResolution 0 **changed from 1 (0=720x576 frame size)

RooftopBasicVBRBitrate 1700000
RooftopBasicMAXBitrate 1700000
RooftopBasicResolution 1

I based this on good info found on another thread in TiVo Hacks which pointed here (thanks jdouglass!):- http://tivo.30below.com/jdouglass/website_bitrates.html

xxxx
03-05-2003, 03:44 AM
Thanks for the list of bitrate settings. I'll do some testing.

I expect that if you stop using DVDPatcher most of your problems will disappear. Mine did.

pukka
03-05-2003, 12:56 PM
No it's nothing to do with DVDPatcher - I went the 'lean' route with the same results :-

1. tytool extract to .m2a and m2v
2. convert audio to 48K with BeSweet
3. author with IFOEdit
4. close and reopen IFOEdit and get headers.

The resulting DVD exhibits the same wrapped effect as the image in the first post of this thread :-(

You got my hopes up when you sugested I needed to be editing the IFO headers but reading your other post all you seem to do is set the 16/9 flag.

My theory is that the headers created by IFOEdit say the stream is 720x576 whereas in fact it's 544x576. In some DVD players the stream header is obeyed and in some the actual stream frame size is obeyed. I suspect the Toshiba is the former, expecting a 720 wide stream but only gets 544 plus 176 of the next frame, hence the "frame and a half" picture that we're getting.

It doesn't look like I can fix this so I'm resorting to re-encoding to 720x576 in TMPGEnc. Such a waste of time !

spinxter
03-06-2003, 01:33 AM
Why don't you use DVD Patcher to check the resolution in your finished VOB files? Then you will know for sure if IFOedit is making the headers 720x576 (wrong resolution) or 544x576 (right resolution). If it turns out the headers on your VOB files are wrong, patch them to 544x576 before buring to DVD. That would probably solve your problem.

xxxx
03-06-2003, 04:54 AM
My theory is that the headers created by IFOEdit say the stream is 720x576 whereas in fact it's 544x576. In some DVD players the stream header is obeyed and in some the actual stream frame size is obeyed. I suspect the Toshiba is the former, expecting a 720 wide stream but only gets 544 plus 176 of the next frame, hence the "frame and a half" picture that we're getting.

It doesn't look like I can fix this so I'm resorting to re-encoding to 720x576 in TMPGEnc. Such a waste of time !

Such a loss of quality too, don't you find? This is what puts me off.

I think that in your position I would just buy an ultra cheap Chinese DVD player that can handle the odd Tivo video format. It's a fair bet that all future DVD players will handle it, along with many other formats, so I think that you would have forward compatibility.

BTW it seems that you can use TMPGEnc to change the audio sampling rate which would cut out one other bit of software. I find that BESweet just crashes constantly on my PC anyway and so use MPG-VCR for the audio change.

Sorry if I got your hopes up for nothing on this.

Mork
05-08-2005, 08:57 AM
Nearly 2 years later I wonder if anyone has a definitive answer to this problem?

I've tried searching the forum and I'm going around in circles, this thread however described the problem I have the best!

I have just installed a cachecard and tytools9r18
Having muddled through the instructions --> HERE <-- (http://themurrays.homeip.net/downloads/tivo/extraction_articles/tivo_dvd.html) I managed to get it all working, and created a DVD.
The picture is beautifully crisp, the sound seems ok, but.... The picture is ofset and wrapped around just as the first post of this thread. :(

This is a UK Tivo (Series 1 of course), and the DVD player is a Toshiba 2109.
Media is DVD-R as that is all the Toshiba will read.
The DVD was burned in Nero Express 6.3.1.12 (bundled with the LG DVD burner).

The DVD plays fine on the PC in InterVideo WinDVD!

Surely a definitive (and hopefully understandable to a newbie!) answer must exist by now? :)

Thanks!

Hi8
05-08-2005, 02:24 PM
Nearly 2 years later I wonder if anyone has a definitive answer to this problem?

I've tried searching the forum and I'm going around in circles, this thread however described the problem I have the best!

I have just installed a cachecard and tytools9r18
Having muddled through the instructions --> HERE <-- (http://themurrays.homeip.net/downloads/tivo/extraction_articles/tivo_dvd.html) I managed to get it all working, and created a DVD.
The picture is beautifully crisp, the sound seems ok, but.... The picture is ofset and wrapped around just as the first post of this thread. :(

This is a UK Tivo (Series 1 of course), and the DVD player is a Toshiba 2109.
Media is DVD-R as that is all the Toshiba will read.
The DVD was burned in Nero Express 6.3.1.12 (bundled with the LG DVD burner).

The DVD plays fine on the PC in InterVideo WinDVD!

Surely a definitive (and hopefully understandable to a newbie!) answer must exist by now? :)

Thanks!


buy / try a different DVD player .. newer one my older Sony did the same thing. Because TyTool and other DVD authoring software allows you to create Non-Standard DVDs - your player probably doesn't like them.

Mork
05-08-2005, 04:51 PM
OK....

I'm suprised, but then again given how long I've been trying to get programmes off the TiVo to DVD (4 months and counting), I guess I'm not suprised!

Progress so far:
Buy new PC with ViVo (s-video input) card so I can input from TiVo
Find Tivo only outputs RGB & Composite.
Buy RGB to S-Video conveter.
Find original DVD authoring package goes out of sync with sound. Unusable.
Try Ulead - Stuttering Picture. Unusable.
Try Pinnacle - cannot get colour balance right.
Find a balance with the colour that sort of works (costing a fortune in DVD's and time so far) and the trial licence runs out :)
Buy Pinnacle. Retail version does not work so well - terrible colour saturation problems.
Burn many more coasters. Fail to get usable compromise (I guess the RGB converter is boosting the signal and saturatiing it out).
Order Cachecard + memory
Install Cachecard. Good grief it works!
Use tytools - burn dvd
DVD does not work (as described above) in the standard player!

This is costing a fortune so far! :(

So... Are any UK users able to recommend a currently available DVD player that DOES work? (Because so far all that I have done is throw more and more money at it and not got a usable DVD so far :( )

It's not anyone here's fault - but I'm wondering if a standalone DVD Recorder would have been the right way after all (and they are a lot cheaper now than when I began ;) )

Hi8
05-08-2005, 07:15 PM
OK....

I'm suprised, but then again given how long I've been trying to get programmes off the TiVo to DVD (4 months and counting), I guess I'm not suprised!

Progress so far:
Buy new PC with ViVo (s-video input) card so I can input from TiVo
Find Tivo only outputs RGB & Composite.
Buy RGB to S-Video conveter.
Find original DVD authoring package goes out of sync with sound. Unusable.
Try Ulead - Stuttering Picture. Unusable.
Try Pinnacle - cannot get colour balance right.
Find a balance with the colour that sort of works (costing a fortune in DVD's and time so far) and the trial licence runs out :)
Buy Pinnacle. Retail version does not work so well - terrible colour saturation problems.
Burn many more coasters. Fail to get usable compromise (I guess the RGB converter is boosting the signal and saturatiing it out).
Order Cachecard + memory
Install Cachecard. Good grief it works!
Use tytools - burn dvd
DVD does not work (as described above) in the standard player!

This is costing a fortune so far! :(

So... Are any UK users able to recommend a currently available DVD player that DOES work? (Because so far all that I have done is throw more and more money at it and not got a usable DVD so far :( )

It's not anyone here's fault - but I'm wondering if a standalone DVD Recorder would have been the right way after all (and they are a lot cheaper now than when I began ;) )

Well;

I've owned afew TiVos S1 (SA-DTIVO) and S2 DTiVos & HD -- I've extracted from all and burned to DVD-R(W).

TyTool works as well as other tools. I even tried the analog method earlier on with my SA - but would never go back to that. I've burned well over 300 DVD-Rs from extracted recordings with perfect audio sync and video quality.

I've spent most of my time learning from others here, most if not all of the answers are here. Most don't cost a dime to find out. I think the answer to your last question my be here (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25689)

Mork
05-09-2005, 05:51 AM
LOL - You know what?
I found that thread AFTER posting!

It doesn't come up if you search on the problem I was having.
Perhaps it should have a short post in the thread listing some of the common problems - rather than just saying "Failed"? Then it would come up on a search for say "shifted video", "green line" and so on.

Yes I know it's a sticky, but I did not notice it before getting the problem, and after that I tried the search facility like a good boy ;)

I understand many people are burning good DVD's, or the forum would not have lasted for the time it has :)

Most of the DVD Players in the thread appear to be USA models though.
Could still do with UK people with success posting which player they use.

Sorry about the listing of problems in the last post - can you imagine how it has been though? I keep thinking I have solved it and something else happens - and the only way of testing anything is to spend money.
Unfortunately, like most people, I don't have a limitless supply :(

So come on UK members, please post your SUCCESS players - because no-one wants to go out and buy a new DVD player with just a HOPE that it will work! :o

gaw
05-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Cannot help with your Uk issues, but a few sugestions/ideas:

Stop blowing DVD' s - us RW's until you think you believe have a good DVD on the RW first.

Old players will have more problems with different formats and quality of the DVD's.

I have been burning Fuji disks with Nero 6.+ with files downloaded, edited, and DVD files created with latest version of TyTools. DVD+R's play on most machines, and a few that wouldn't seemed to like the older DVD-R.

If you are trying to process extracted Tytool files with other programs (Pinnacle, etc., - I also experimented and got poor results that took a lot of time).

Mork
05-10-2005, 05:20 AM
I've tried RW's - The Toshiba does not read them :(

The media cost is nothing though compared to the hardware (and software!) cost. I just don't feel like throwing another large sum of money at yet more hardware that may, or may not, solve the problem. :o

I'm guessing the problem is because something is not quite to standard. This may be a tytools thing, or a Nero thing. I'll try to get an older version of Nero that others appear to be using without problems. I see elsewherer the tytool author suspects that later versions of Nero are messing with the data - perhaps that is it?

The tytool output is BEAUTIFULL on the tv (much better than any I burned through the RGB output) It is just wrapped about 25% offset - about 25% of the left side of the picture actually appears on the RIGHT 25% of the screen.
:confused: . As I said - it looks OK on the PC itself, so I have no issues with the tool itself from that point of view.

I'm trying to catch up with all the threads here so that I can talk the same language as everyone else, but it is taking a heck of a long time! ;)

Hi8
05-10-2005, 07:46 PM
I've tried RW's - The Toshiba does not read them :(

The media cost is nothing though compared to the hardware (and software!) cost. I just don't feel like throwing another large sum of money at yet more hardware that may, or may not, solve the problem. :o

Well;

I think you will have to get passed your original problem, spending money on the WRONG solution. If you continue to spend money on blank media creating coasters (at least to your present DVD player) -- you will have spent more than what it would cost on a cheap player. You can but cheap (but work fine for the average consumer's taste) for less than to cost of a spindle of discs!

I can buy a DVD player for under $50 in most department (discount) stores. I find it hard to believe that the UK does not have such a source to such products.

Many of those store will probably let you bring in some of your discs to try before you buy.

Mork
05-11-2005, 06:19 AM
I can't think of a single store in the UK that has players set up for use. (apart from high-end players in specialist retailers).

Certainly you can get no-name players in supermarkets for about 80 to 100 dollars, but what happens if it does not solve the problem?
I'm back to throwing more money at the issue without a result.

I tried downgrading to an earlier version of Nero last night. The older install asked if I really wanted to instal an earlier version of the software - "yes" - happily installed and then told me my demo licence had expired!
It must take the origianl install date from a file somewhere that is the same as the original v6 I had installed.
So I can't try an earlier version :mad:

The bulk of my media cost went on trying to find a decent colour balance when trying to burn from RGB through s-video to various DVD authoring packages. Not the issue anymore :) The output form tytools is FANTASTIC in comparison to the lossy-on-lossy-on-lossy output I was trying :cool:

Hi8
05-11-2005, 01:58 PM
I can't think of a single store in the UK that has players set up for use. (apart from high-end players in specialist retailers).

Certainly you can get no-name players in supermarkets for about 80 to 100 dollars, but what happens if it does not solve the problem?
I'm back to throwing more money at the issue without a result.

I tried downgrading to an earlier version of Nero last night. The older install asked if I really wanted to instal an earlier version of the software - "yes" - happily installed and then told me my demo licence had expired!
It must take the origianl install date from a file somewhere that is the same as the original v6 I had installed.
So I can't try an earlier version :mad:

The bulk of my media cost went on trying to find a decent colour balance when trying to burn from RGB through s-video to various DVD authoring packages. Not the issue anymore :) The output form tytools is FANTASTIC in comparison to the lossy-on-lossy-on-lossy output I was trying :cool:


ok, I'm kinda tired of beating a dead horse here... but here goes, if your player doesn't allow non-standard DVD formats, NOTHING you can do other than transcode the disc/video into a DVD format standard prior to burning/authoring. Very simple to do, the down side is it takes a LONNNNGGG time. Oh yeah, hopefully you don't lose sync.

Can't you buy a new DVD player and if it doesn't work return it? Just tell them all the discs you've tried don't play properly?

I'm willing to bet all of those "cheap" player will work fine. If they say they play SVCD, VCD, MP2,MP3 etc... some even Divx - they will play.

superleo
05-11-2005, 02:01 PM
I had nero 5 on my laptop that I use regularly and that I used for DVD burning with an external USB 2x HP drive; it worked flwlessly, neverthe less the time to compleate a DVD was an hour long.

About 4 month ago I built a computer for the kids, 2.6ghz, 512mb, 120g drive and ofcourse dvd burner. I install Nero 6 in this machine, and for some reason the discs burned on this machine have issues with one of my players.

I compleatly uninstalled Nero 6 first and then reinstall Nero 5 and no problems with any of the playes, exept for a 4 year old Toshiba DVD/VCR combo that can not handle 480x480 from DTivo, which by the way, plays the DVDs in the exact way as you have illustrated earlier.

I think that you have a hardware incompatibility issue more than anything.

Mork
05-12-2005, 05:46 AM
...NOTHING you can do other than transcode the disc/video into a DVD format standard prior to burning/authoring. Very simple to do, the down side is it takes a LONNNNGGG time.

Um... I thought that was what I was asking - if there is a way of transcoding to a DVD format STANDARD then please point me to it? :D
I don't care if it takes a long time as long as I maintain quality (If I wasn't bothered about that I could just run to VHS Like I used to). I wouldn't have bought all this kit specifically to do this otherwise.

I'll try and go shopping with a DVD at the weekend though - but buying something only because it happens to accidentally play a non-standard disc seems wrong. What happens in 10 years, it's broken and I can't find another one because manufacturers have tightened the spec to the defined standard? No one will be able to play thier archived shows.:eek:

I'm not trying to be awkward - I'm just worried. And I do appreciate the help!
Frustrating that no-one from the UK has yet been able to put my mind at rest :(

Hi8
05-12-2005, 06:39 AM
Um... I thought that was what I was asking - if there is a way of transcoding to a DVD format STANDARD then please point me to it? :D
I don't care if it takes a long time as long as I maintain quality (If I wasn't bothered about that I could just run to VHS Like I used to). I wouldn't have bought all this kit specifically to do this otherwise.

I'll try and go shopping with a DVD at the weekend though - but buying something only because it happens to accidentally play a non-standard disc seems wrong. What happens in 10 years, it's broken and I can't find another one because manufacturers have tightened the spec to the defined standard? No one will be able to play thier archived shows.:eek:

I'm not trying to be awkward - I'm just worried. And I do appreciate the help!
Frustrating that no-one from the UK has yet been able to put my mind at rest :(


for transcoding try TMPGEnc (http://www.pegasys-inc.com)

as far as the future goes... nobody's crystal ball will tell you what will REALLY happen, but the way things are headed, is the other way - the competition is forcing all manufacturers add compatibility with MORE formats not less.

laserfan
05-12-2005, 10:35 AM
Um... I thought that was what I was asking - if there is a way of transcoding to a DVD format STANDARD then please point me to it? :DMork I have come late to this thread and have not read all of it, but as I read your question you are looking to burn "home-made" discs that play on all standalone (set-top) DVD players? If that is what you are looking for, that simply is not possible. There are many DVD players that won't play a homemade disc, period.

One of your posts describes different softwares you have used, which AFAIK transcode the programs and introduce errors. And Nero isn't the best burning software either.

My ideas:

1. Stick w/TyTool all the way thru the authoring process (i.e. to a VIDEO_TS folder)
2. Burn to a DVD+R and use a burner that can "bitset" the DVD+R to DVD-ROM booktype (which many older players demand i.e. they don't even know about writable discs). Note DVD-R CANNOT be set to DVD-ROM type.
3. Get RecordNow 7.3 to burn your discs--it seems to be the best re: making sure the resulting burn meets all DVD specs

adrianeaton
05-12-2005, 12:10 PM
I'm in the UK and copy tivo (ty) recordings via a tubonet card to the pc then use tytools9r17 to create the audio and video directories for nero to burn to DVD. They play fine on a Pioneer 360 DVD and next doors sony dvd player not sure which model.

Have used +R -R +RW -RW and seems to make no difference in those two players.

HTH
Adrian.

Roj
05-13-2005, 07:17 AM
Um... I thought that was what I was asking - if there is a way of transcoding to a DVD format STANDARD then please point me to it? :D
I don't care if it takes a long time as long as I maintain quality(

Transcoding is generally not a good idea, as you will lose quality.

But on a UK Tivo (as opposed to a directtivo), you can change the resolution and bit rate at which the tivo records the video. Check for a thread on bit rates/resolutions in the UK tivo forum on tivocommunity.com for more details - there are modes which support DVD standard resolutions of 352x576 and 720x576 (for UK/PAL). This does not make the disc 100% DVD standard compliant, but at least the resolution will be, which sounds like it might be your problem.

In terms of Standalone DVD players, I have not yet found one which does not play DVDs made from tytools. I think I have tried a couple of Philips, a Samsung and one of the cheap supermarket type ones (generally these are good for compatability with not-quite standard discs!).

So I would suggest changing one of your less used recording modes to 720x576 at around 6mbps, and make a test recording and DVD. If this works you can then start playing around with different combinations of 352 or 720 mode and different bit rates to see what works best for you.

Cheers,
Roj

captain_video
05-13-2005, 08:09 AM
Mork,

The answer to your problem is simply to get a new DVD player. If your player is more than 3-4 years old it probably doesn't like recordable formats and nothing you do in your authoring process can fix this. Standalone Tivos need to be set up for DVD-compliant resolution and the easiest way to do this is via TivoWeb.

Believe me, you DON'T want to go through the transcoding process if you don't have to. A single DVD can take as long as 24 hours to transcode and the quality sucks when you get done when compared to the original. I'd also recommend that you stay away from the vast majority of commercial DVD authoring tools like Pinnacle or Ulead as they all have their own set of problems when authoring tyDVDs. DVD-Lab is highly recommended if you need anything above and beyond what TyTools has to offer. You should also consider upgrading to the latest version of TyTools instead of using an outdated version.

I don't have any experience with UK Tivos but, aside from the differences in resolution and display rates, authoring a DVD should be exactly the same for PAL as it is for NTSC. Your best bet would be to try your DVDs in as many different players as you can.

Mork
05-18-2005, 09:53 AM
Thanks all.

Sorry for the delayed response to this. I thought you would all approiciate an update as you have been kind enough to offer advice :)

1. The Toshiba 2109 does happily play home recorded discs (-R only).

2. I went out at the weekend to try new DVD players, and out of the half-dozen stores visited I found 4 (yes 4!) DVD players set up for demos. I tried my ty-tools burned projects in
a Samsung (worked perfectly! :D )
a Sony (worked perfectly :D )
a Toshiba (same problem as my OLD Toshiba! - shifted picture, green line and all! :eek: :mad: )
and a Panasonic (worked perfectly :D ).
So 3 out of 4 worked.
Note for anyone else thinking of buying a new player - Toshibas seem to have a problem with tytools. I don't know what the transport is inside them but I bet any others that use the same have the same problem...

3. (I saved the best 'till last!) I tried the non-recommended route of extracting in multiplex mode, loading the resulting mpeg in to Pinnacle, and burning from Pinnacle. THIS WORKED! :cool:
The sound sync seemes to drift VERY slightly over a 2 hour recording, and it takes ages re-rendering at the point you burn the disc, but it works!

I still feel the picture quality was SLIGHTLY better using the recomended extraction method, (but this could be subjective), and it took a lot less DVD space and was quicker, so I might be looking to buy a multi-region Panasonic soon-ish - meantime I have a way of getting acceptable quality DVD's.

Thanks again. I'll also have to try the alternative burn methods listed above. At the moment though I need to archive off some recordings as I have a full TiVo and a Grand-Prix weekend coming up (so more stuff to record!) :rolleyes:

I'll let you know what works when I try the others.

P.S. I am using the latest version (18) of tytools, I haven't tried any other. :confused:

malfunct
05-18-2005, 05:45 PM
Sorry for the delayed response to this. I thought you would all approiciate an update as you have been kind enough to offer advice :)

My toshiba player plays the dvds fine (there are some issues with the sound encoding and digital audio output but can be fully fixed with a tweak in the dvd player menu) that I create in tytool. Still seems like you should avoid them but its not a definite no go on all of thier models (I listed the model I had at some point in the dvd player compatibility thread). I also have a dtivo so it could be that the source video is different. My process is to extract with tytool, do any cuts I need in tytool, build the mpegs (I've used both muxers and they work fine) and then build the dvd's using tytool. I then make a video dvd project in nero burning rom 6 (I've used 5 successfully as well) (not nero express or nero vision express because those like to screw things up in numerous ways) and include the video_ts folder and burn. I don't fiddle with any options other than burn speed (I use 1x burning if I need the dvd to last).

Mork
05-19-2005, 12:00 PM
That's an interesting comment - you burn at a speed of 1 if you want the disc to last.

Is there a problem with discs not lasting if burned at higher speed?
Conversely is there a danger of "over" burning a disc if it is designed for (say) 8x and you burn it at 1?

Forgive me if this is a known issue - I've never had the capability of burning discs of any sort before!

parakeet
05-31-2005, 04:54 AM
I can't think of a single store in the UK that has players set up for use. (apart from high-end players in specialist retailers).

Certainly you can get no-name players in supermarkets for about 80 to 100 dollars, but what happens if it does not solve the problem?
I'm back to throwing more money at the issue without a result.

I tried downgrading to an earlier version of Nero last night. The older install asked if I really wanted to instal an earlier version of the software - "yes" - happily installed and then told me my demo licence had expired!
It must take the origianl install date from a file somewhere that is the same as the original v6 I had installed.
So I can't try an earlier version :mad:

The bulk of my media cost went on trying to find a decent colour balance when trying to burn from RGB through s-video to various DVD authoring packages. Not the issue anymore :) The output form tytools is FANTASTIC in comparison to the lossy-on-lossy-on-lossy output I was trying :cool:

what you need to try an older version of nero is to clean the newer version off your system, try the nero cleaning tools from the website to completely clean your system before installing the older version. http://ww2.nero.com/enu/Clean_Tools.html