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osetivo
03-29-2003, 01:14 PM
Does anyone know (or educated guess) if it is possible to do "in place" cutting of commercials on the Tivo?

Either as an actual cutting/removing the frames so that you reduce the file size, or as a "skip to" function so that you don't actually gain any extra storage, but when playback reaches a mark it skips to a end marker.

mw2000
04-03-2003, 03:37 PM
Would be nice :D

captain_video
04-03-2003, 03:46 PM
You can perform edits of ty files directly on your DTivo using TyStudio prior to extracting them to your PC. Check out the TyStudio Beta 2 thread at the top of the forum page.

mw2000
04-03-2003, 04:52 PM
We don't have DTivo's here - only Thomson (RCA) SA :mad:

osetivo
04-03-2003, 04:56 PM
I understand what/how TyStudio does, at least superficially. In fact I used the .5B3RC1 today. :P

What I am asking is a much further down the road question. It may not even be possible, which is why I'm asking if anyone has given any thought.

First, I know nothing technical about mfs, tystreams, Frames, GOPs, MPEGs and what not. So this is just a theory.

1. Use a TyStudio "LIKE" editor and access the Index on the Tivo.
2. Make the cuts and save.
3. The "TiVo" (withouth extracting it to the pc) would then do one of 2 things.

A. Easier (I think) Insert a "skip to flag" in the tystream at the beginning of a commercial, so that the TiVo Playback mechanism would interpret the flag's target, i.e. the end of a commercial as the next Frame, GOP or time code, whatever.

B. Have the TiVo actually cut out & delete the commercial.

Option "B" would obviously be best in that it would also increase storage. "A" would just make skipping commercials easy/automatic.

captain_video
04-03-2003, 04:57 PM
Sorry, I didn't notice the location under your name. TyStudio also works with SA Tivos. I didn't mean to imply it was strictly for use with DTivos. A simple slip of the keyboard.

captain_video
04-03-2003, 05:01 PM
TyStudio doesn't actually make any cuts until you process the file and extract it to your PC so you won't be seeing an increase in available recording capacity. I've only processed files on my PC using TyStudio and have not attempted to do it in the Tivo itself yet. This is mainly because it is slower than doing it on my PC and also ties up the Tivo's resources while performing the processing. I'd rather not bog down my Tivo while editing commercials and run the risk of screwing up any recordings in progress.

osetivo
04-03-2003, 05:51 PM
Sorry, Captain, I've apparenlty made it clear as mud.

AFAIK, ALL of the TyStudio processing is done on the PC Side, regardless of whether you Download Then Edit or Edit Then Download. There is no real processing strain on the TiVo, except the TyServer processing that creates the pre-built index that TyStudio uses to make cut as it extracts.

Currently there is no "ON TIVO" editing, which is why I am asking the relatively small handful of people here who have a deep understanding of the tystream, if it is POSSIBLE.

If Possible one of those bright minds might, if properly challenged, take up the cause and develope the software to do it. Many would be happy to excise the commercials from the TiVo.

The TyStudio reference was merely an example of a possible interface to perform the edits. sorry for the confusion.

My gut feeling is that given all the effort that has been expended here and elsewhere, on understanding the tystream, muxing, and a/v sync issued that the answer is probably NO.

Well this issue is apparenlty a "dead horse" for me.

Scott


"When you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount, but lawyers have other strategies, including buying a stronger whip, changing riders, declaring that the horse is better, faster and cheaper dead, and, finally, harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed."

Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson

MrBassMan
04-03-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by mw2000
We don't have DTivo's here - only Thomson (RCA) SA :mad:

tyStudio works well on UK Tivos too

MrBassMan
04-03-2003, 06:20 PM
In theory - it would be possible - Riley is the one most likely to know the answer.

We know enough about Tivo to:
1. extract a ty file
2. edit a ty file
3. re-insert a ty file.

We could omit steps 1 and 3.

tyserver would need to accept a cut file back from tyeditor and run a local process on tivo to get the fsid (ty) files, cut them and then re-insert them back into the file system.


Originally posted by osetivo
Sorry, Captain, I've apparenlty made it clear as mud.

AFAIK, ALL of the TyStudio processing is done on the PC Side, regardless of whether you Download Then Edit or Edit Then Download. There is no real processing strain on the TiVo, except the TyServer processing that creates the pre-built index that TyStudio uses to make cut as it extracts.

Currently there is no "ON TIVO" editing, which is why I am asking the relatively small handful of people here who have a deep understanding of the tystream, if it is POSSIBLE.

If Possible one of those bright minds might, if properly challenged, take up the cause and develope the software to do it. Many would be happy to excise the commercials from the TiVo.

The TyStudio reference was merely an example of a possible interface to perform the edits. sorry for the confusion.

My gut feeling is that given all the effort that has been expended here and elsewhere, on understanding the tystream, muxing, and a/v sync issued that the answer is probably NO.

Well this issue is apparenlty a "dead horse" for me.

Scott


"When you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount, but lawyers have other strategies, including buying a stronger whip, changing riders, declaring that the horse is better, faster and cheaper dead, and, finally, harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed."

Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson

osetivo
04-03-2003, 07:10 PM
Thanks John:

You were one of the ones I was fishing for, Riley too. :-)

I know lots of irons in the fire, just keep it as a thought. Maybe extraction could take place after the ON TIVO edits.

osetivo
04-04-2003, 02:40 AM
Thanks, I didn't think it was a terribly original idea. Just hadn't seen any discussion on it

MrBassMan
04-04-2003, 05:12 AM
Originally posted by rc3105


chunk based in-tivo editing is possible and not terribly difficult. gop or frame based editing is much more complicated and not likely any time soon.
--
Riley

Changing the editor to work in chunk mode rather than GOP mode would be relatively simple.

dr4j2
04-04-2003, 08:28 AM
Is there a way to auto generate a cut list based on the changes in the video (black frame fade) and or audio of a tystream.

I would like to load that cut list into Tystudio.

Has anyone done that.

..jpw

MrBassMan
04-04-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by dr4j2
Is there a way to auto generate a cut list based on the changes in the video (black frame fade) and or audio of a tystream.

I would like to load that cut list into Tystudio.

Has anyone done that.

..jpw

It's on the wish list. What's missing is a number of extra hours in the day.

newbie
04-04-2003, 09:50 AM
I have a VCR with commercial skip that does that. There are plenty of times it's fooled. Although it's a good "wish list" feature in theory; in practice I doubt we'll save any time after we correct the mistakes.

John--I'd put this way down on your list. (unless someone can come up with better logic than what is currently being used).
Having a 30 second advance button on the tyeditor might make editing commercials easier.




Originally posted by dr4j2
Is there a way to auto generate a cut list based on the changes in the video (black frame fade) and or audio of a tystream.

I would like to load that cut list into Tystudio.

Has anyone done that.

..jpw

MrBassMan
04-04-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by newbie
I have a VCR with commercial skip that does that. There are plenty of times it's fooled. Although it's a good "wish list" feature in theory; in practice I doubt we'll save any time after we correct the mistakes.

John--I'd put this way down on your list. (unless someone can come up with better logic than what is currently being used).
Having a 30 second advance button on the tyeditor might make editing commercials easier.

A user configured time for the advance would be better - in the UK we have fewer but longer commercial breaks.

shuiqlazam
04-09-2003, 12:27 PM
So let's go one step further.

While watching a show on your tivo, you pause right at the fade to black, before a commerical starts.

You hit the record buttong and bang. Cut point. watch through commerical, return to the fade to black (hit record, new end cut point) ... beautiful, tyindex runs and cleans up the shows removing the commericali for you :)

Cheers!
Shui

BubbleLamp
04-09-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by shuiqlazam
So let's go one step further.

While watching a show on your tivo, you pause right at the fade to black, before a commerical starts.

You hit the record buttong and bang. Cut point. watch through commerical, return to the fade to black (hit record, new end cut point) ... beautiful, tyindex runs and cleans up the shows removing the commericali for you :)

Cheers!
Shui

And if you misjudge the timing, how do you fix it?

newbie
04-09-2003, 12:47 PM
I hope this was intended as a joke. This technique (even if you can execute it perfectly) requires that you watch the show and commercials (in real time). Kind of defeats the purpose of TIVO.




Originally posted by shuiqlazam
So let's go one step further.

While watching a show on your tivo, you pause right at the fade to black, before a commerical starts.

You hit the record buttong and bang. Cut point. watch through commerical, return to the fade to black (hit record, new end cut point) ... beautiful, tyindex runs and cleans up the shows removing the commericali for you :)

Cheers!
Shui

MrBassMan
04-09-2003, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by newbie
I hope this was intended as a joke. This technique (even if you can execute it perfectly) requires that you watch the show and commercials (in real time). Kind of defeats the purpose of TIVO.

And it also assumes a fade to black which is happening less often as broadcasters get more sophisticated in their use of technology.

I have read a number of university research articles about finding commercials in a broadcast. To summarise - it's hard.

Best results use a combination of detecting changes in sound, colour and brightness together with a knowledge of the type of broadcast (news, sports etc.)

osetivo
04-09-2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by newbie
I hope this was intended as a joke. This technique (even if you can execute it perfectly) requires that you watch the show and commercials (in real time). Kind of defeats the purpose of TIVO.

Newbie:
Are you assuming that "While watching a show on your tivo" meant a "live" broadcast. If so I agree with your comment. Otherwise, I think using a remote to make a cut list on a pre-recorded program a great idea. (I think there has been some prior discussion on this)

After all, you can make more precise frame advances on the TiVo with a remote than with TyStudio. Could this give conceivably give us more accurate cuts. I dunno.

Does anyone know what pressing the "Record" button while watching a previously recorded program does? If it does nothing, is there a way to intercept the signal while playing a recorded Program to grab a fame reference/time code or whatever and write it to a file that could be pulled with tyserver.

shuiqlazam
04-09-2003, 09:23 PM
yeah, If i could write code, I would give it a shot. But, i am no coder by any means. :(

Anyways, to expand upon why.... I usually never watch shows in real time anymore. I always wait atleast 20 minutes for a 1 hour show so i can fast forward through the commercials.

The record button was just an example of a button i dont thint does anything on a previously recorded program.

The real thought behind it was my wife could do it while she sits on her ass in front of that DAMN tivo!

ROFL - she was so mad when i brought it home... now... i can't get the remote out of her hands.

We should start a project called block Oxygen, all the other damn woman's network channels and trading spaces. But isn't that what telnet and reboot are good for :)

Keep up the good wook!

Cheers!
Shui

osetivo
04-10-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by shuiqlazam

ROFL - she was so mad when i brought it home... now... i can't get the remote out of her hands.

Same Here, so now we have His/Hers


We should start a project called block Oxygen, all the other damn woman's network channels and trading spaces. But isn't that what telnet and reboot are good for :)

I change the channels from work, that seems to keep her on her toes.