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Just4Fun
06-02-2003, 01:49 PM
Jdiner: First, excellent work. I bought my DirecTiVo (Sony T-60) a couple of years ago but just recently added TivoNet and TivoWeb. I printed some of the main threads (132 and 120 pages long among others) on extraction and read them on various flights. It just dawned on me the other day, with this thread, that there are two, ummm, competing products. I choose to not have an opinion on either. I've read your stuff from the beginning though and have a great deal of respect for the work you've done and the insight you've gleaned.

That said I have a complaint or perhaps a question. I find a distinct lack of documentation on installing and working with your program(s). So, have I missed something obvious? If so, point me to it (someone, not Jdiner). If I've not missed it then I'd like to volunteer to fix that. I'm not a programmer so can't really help on that front but I've a couple of decades in computers and a half dozen with Linux.

I would envision something with a real quick "getting started" section, a brief set of steps that would get the average user up and running quickly. That would be followed by more detail with greater latitude and more choices or options. Finally probably a glossary of terms and technical definitions.

One thing I like about your approach is that it's fairly modular - one function, one program - with the ability to use whatever "modules" you'd like (more or less).

If you're interested and think this would help please let me know and we can go offline (if you'd like) and make sure I conform to your expectations. If not... keep up the good work and I'll see you on the boards :-)

captain_video
06-02-2003, 03:23 PM
You might want to look at this (http://dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23816) thread for some of your info. The installation of TyTool hasn't changed since it was first introduced which is why the latest version doesn't have any documentation with it. Long-time lurkers already know how to install it. We expect the newbies to learn how to use the search function to find the info. Keep in mind that this is a hackers forum and you won't get the nice readme files with any software like you do when you pay for it. Check the post by snoopy in the link I referenced and download the TyTool7r2 (everything).zip file. You'll find installation instructions for TyTool included in the zip file.

Just4Fun
06-02-2003, 05:37 PM
Thanks captain_video. Yes, I've been around long enough (here and elsewhere) to know what to expect to "dumb" questions. I appreciate your lack of rancor if you think my question was improperly researched.

Does that mean you don't feel there's a need for further documentation or a How-to? I'm familiar with the, ummm, need to be non-explicit, if that's the right way to say it. Too obvious and we'll invite the ire of someone with a lawyer and money :-) That said, finding answers or even suggestions is more like playing Myst than like research.

I will admit that I tend to pick a thread, particularly a sticky one, and read it thoroughly than to do searches. I'm gathering, from your response, that searching is a more effective method. Thanks

General_Disarry
06-03-2003, 05:59 PM
capt_video, I myself am no newbie to hacking sites and love to read but the option to search with this board software can be a futile effort most of the time. The software will return a 100 page thread but does not take you to the post that contains the info you seek. It brings you to page 1. The info you seek may be on page 50. You never know. And usually the stuff in between will confuse you before you get to what you are looking for.

I am new to extraction and have been reading off and on for about the past week. Probably 30+ hours reading and I have yet to find any explanation of the basic processes involved in extraction. So much old info is intermixed in the sticky's as well. This is the same for all of the Tivo forums here. Perhaps releasing the sticky's and starting a new one where more current and good info will be available The old sticky will fall but will still be preserved and available to the search function. A little updating could be in order. Not bitching, just suggesting. I know there is a necessity to not spoon feed, but when you can't find even the most basic info within 30+ hours, something is wrong.

These are rhetorical questions that follow.

Mux'ing -- WTF is that?
Splitting -- Why?
What are the basic processes to get the video to a usable format. I am not looking for a type "this /a" step by step guide.
I know I need no scramble and I know how to activate it. But do I need to select a module? If so, which module?

Again, I am not bitching, but a basic glossary and overview of the processes involved would be very helpful and make things "click" and help in the comprehension of things.

:p

Again, just some suggestions. I have learned a lot from this place and I am not a newbie, even though I am a one-post wonder that registered today. :p I just had to get that out!:D

tytyty
06-03-2003, 07:06 PM
General_Disarray

If you change your search criteria to show results as posts you will find your experience here much more fruitfull.

General_Disarry
06-03-2003, 08:31 PM
Well fsck me running. Never saw that. Thanks.

Still there is the question of a basic overview. Please point out my shortcomings there as well.

captain_video
06-03-2003, 09:00 PM
It seems the thread that I originally linked to has been moved. Anyway, I've attached the readme file from the TyTool5.zip file that contained jdiner's original TyTool installation instructions. The info is exactly the same except that you need tserver_mfs6 and the latest version of NowShowing.tcl to upload to your Tivo.

General_Disarry
06-04-2003, 02:23 PM
Thanks el capitan.

And sorry about the spelling error Kraven!:D

Just4Fun
06-04-2003, 09:00 PM
OK, wish me luck. I wrote a step by step guide. I'll attach it and hope the formatting sticks. Please let me know what you think.

Here are my step by step instructions for using TyTools to create a DVD. I'm certainly not an expert but this is what worked for me. I don't really address any installation, but then again there is very little involved to installing TyTools.

Comments:

These directions are in text only so there's no formatting. If it makes sense I could add formatting and post a zipped PDF instead?

These are specifically for DVD. There is an option for VCD/SVCD but I don't know if it works. If it does work I'd be very surprised if it worked with menus.

It's not uncommon, if you switch away from TyTools and then switch back, that TyTools will refuse to accept input. You can't even close it. In that case it's necessary to Alt-Ctrl-Del and bring up the task manager to kill the application.

For some of you experienced users out there. I have no idea what the following option/buttons do on the "Tivo Client".

1) At the bottom of the screen there are:
[list=a]
A) "Get Parts"
B) "Parse File".
[/list=a]
2) On the "File" pull down there are:
[list=a]
A) Also "Get Parts" but that's already mentioned above.
B) The "Network Options" - "VSplit Mode" and "Multiplex Mode"
C) The "File Options:" - "Multiplex File(s)"
D) The "Process Single File" option.
[/list=a]
3) On the "Options" pull down there are:
[list=a]
A) The various "Verbose" levels, undoubtedly to increase error reporting but is there any reason to use other levels?
B) "Set Initial Jump" and "Set Length"
What exactly do they do and how are they used?
C) "Networking Options" - "Single Socket(old)mode"
Probably don't care
D) "Mux Options:" - "VCD/SVCD Mux Output"
I thought Jdiner didn't support VCD/SVCD. It might be interesting to try one "episode" to SVCD I can't imagine using VCD. Overall, I'm very happy with the DVD and Menu option. 6-8 (or so) shows on a DVD seems like a very viable solution.
E) "Find Network Addresses"
What the heck is this in favor of?
[/list=a]

captain_video
06-04-2003, 09:32 PM
1)
A) Get Parts - this allows you to extract portions of the ty file by FSID. If you look at the name of the program in the NowShowg list you'll notice a bunch of 5 or 6 digit numbers separated by slashes at the far right. Each one of these numbers represents an FSID and is 512MB in size. You can select one or more FSIDs for extraction using this option.

B) Parse File - This is the GUI version of vsplit. This option will split the ty file into elemental streams and give you a video (m2v) and audio (m2a) file.

2)
A) See above
B) Vsplit mode extracts and splits on the fly; Multiplex mode muxes on the fly to give you an mpeg file directly from the ty file.
C) Multiplex files can convert the ty file directly to an uncut mpeg or process the edited keyfile with cut file to give you an edited mpeg.
D) Just does one file at a time.

3)
A) Don't worry about it; use whatever the default setting is.
B) Set initial jump - use this to start your vsplitting or muxing process at a set number of chunks into the ty file; this comes in handy if the beginning of the ty file is corrupt or you have mpeg layer 2 audio at the beginning and AC3 audio throughout the rest of the clip and want to start with the AC3 audio (this is common with DTV PPV movies having AC3 soundtracks since the movie usually begins 30 seconds after the opening intro that contains normal audio). Set length - this is for setting the length of the file you wish to extract in chunks referenced from the beginning of the clip.
C) Use the default setting unless you have a problem extracting.
D) Can't say; never used it but it appears to be self-explanatory.
E) Again, never used it but it appears to locate the IP address assigned by a DHCP server. Since my DTivos both have static IP addresses I only get my PC's IP address. I suspect it will display your Tivo's IP address if you have it configured as a DHCP client, which is the default setting for the Turbonet software.

Just4Fun
06-04-2003, 10:02 PM
Thank you Captain. An excellent, very quick and very complete reply. I appreciate it.

Just4Fun
06-08-2003, 12:50 PM
Would it be possible (Captain_Video?) to get a high level overview of what the steps do? I'll take a stab here but I've big gaps. Also, at what points are the files useable elsewhere (if at all)?

1) Extract TyFiles
2) Make Key Files
3) Edit Key Files
4) VOB-Mux Files
5) Create IFO Files/Dirs

1) Pretty simple. Plenty of other tools. I happen to like the TyTools approach because I can unload the tserver component on the TiVo and leave my Tivo fairly untouched.

2) I have no idea what the key files do. I assume it's rather like indexing with the output being a big index file needed to access the audio/video in the TyFile.

3) Pretty self explanatory, this step allows us to cut multiple sections out of the TyFiles thus leaving only the desired audio/video stream. The output of this step is simply a text file with the times of the cuts.

4) VOB-Mux - Creates the VOB files although they don't seem to be the "final" VOB files. This is basically just formatting the file in a DVD compatible format with the cut sections removed. It appears that TyFiles are MPEG-II but their method of formatting the audio and video into a single stream is different than that used by a DVD. Also, DTiVo uses a 480x480 resolution whereas DVD uses a 720x480 resolution. This doesn't seem to be a problem playing on most players but it is a big problem for many "off the shelf" video editing programs, although I'm not sure where such programs would fit. It would seem to me that you might want be interested in another tool to do the "cuts" but any such tools wouldn't be able to read a TyFile. With that in mind I would guess you'd want to make no cuts and then run this step 4 to prepare for input to another tool, if you wanted a purchased video editing program. Then I assume you'd use the external program to make the cuts, make a menu and then create the DVD files. I personally am very happy with the TyTools cut editor although I've noted a few problems with cuts at the very beginning or very end of the file.

5) The first part of this creates the Menu. That's self explanatory. The second part does something to the VOB's, presumably massaging them and cleaning up any artifacts left over from the step 4 process.

I appreciate any comments, answering any questions and fixing any incorrect assumptions. I intend to fold that back into what I have for documentation which I'll post. I'm going to redo that in PDF format since plain text really stinks and is very limiting. But then again actions speak louder than words.

Thanks.

captain_video
06-08-2003, 03:04 PM
Overall, your asumptions appear to be correct. Creating the key files does pretty much the same thing that indexing does in TyStudio but just goes about it in a different way. The advantage is that it creates a permanent record of the header info whereas TyStudio requires that the file be indexed every time you open it up. The editing compatibility with off-the-shelf programs seems to be more of an issue with the ty file format rather than the resolution of 480X480. There are gaps in the audio and video that can drive a commercial editing program nuts and result in serious synch errors. TyTool has been developed to eliminate or at least reduce this to a tolerable level. The IFO file creation is a necessity for making a DVD that your set top player and DVD codec software will recognize and be able to use the menus and chapter stops and such. The IFO file (i.e. information file) contains the time codes and other pertinent data so that the DVD player knows what's on the disc and where everything is. Check out the Guides section at http://www.doom9.org/ for info on the file structure of a DVD and what each type contains.

Just4Fun
06-09-2003, 11:20 AM
Thanks as always Captain_Video. Glad to know I'm on the right track. I've spent a lot of time on the Doom9 site as well as the DVDRHelp site. Lately that's to understand the menu function better. Not that anyone but me cares :-) but I'll put all of this together into an overview document although not until next weekend.

In the meantime... Here is my previous step by step guide but in a formatted mode. I added screen shots as well (no picking on my "now showing" list, I've a wife and kids so they're not all mine :-) ).

For whatever reason the PDF file is far larger than the M$ Word file. The zip file is 633K is this a problem? Comments or suggestions for improvement are welcome.

Just4Fun
06-09-2003, 11:25 AM
Hmmm, having problems attaching the file (and can't delete that last post).