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cwingert
06-12-2003, 10:09 PM
I've been working on an HMO option for a Series 1 TiVo. I haven't put that much time into it (maybe 10 hours), but its coming along.

My short term goal is support "Video Sharing" between TiVos, while not impacting the recording operation of the TiVo. This requires some sort of {Turbo/Air/TiVo}Net addition to your Series 1.

The principles are similar to the way mplayer works with the vserver daemon.

I currently have a working prototype that supports the following features :
-Starts/stops via the remote control (not bash) via remote key presses, currently "Clear-Clear-Clear-Clear"
-Select from a list of TiVos that are specified in a configuration file.
-Select from a Now Showing list retrieved from a selected TiVo
-Playback of stream from remote or local TiVo
-Trick Play, REW and FF jumps in the stream
-Return to MyWorld fairly cleanly upon exit of the HMO application

Shortcomings
-Currently I have to suspend three tasks (TvMomMpegSink, ContextMgr, MyWorld) to allow my HMO application to run. Suspending TvMomMpegSink and ContextMgr don't seem to have any side-effects. However, I also have to suspend MyWorld because it is also processing remote keypresses that are directed to my HMO application. When MyWorld processes keypresses it slows down the TiVo. Suspending MyWorld also stops the TiVo from recording in the background (which is bad).
-Menus are UGLY, but they are also an order of magnitude faster than MyWorld's menus. I can also get 22 Now Showing entries on a screen.
-It is randomly crashing right now. However, I am using it right now to watch an application on a TiVo on the other side of the house (Junkyard
Wars).

Things that need to be done
-I want MyWorld to keep running in the background, so it keeps recording. However, I want it to stop listening to ttyS0, while my HMO application is up. I was looking at modifying ttysnoop or interceptty so that when my HMO application is up, it stops sending output to MyWorld. Does anyone know of an easier way to get MyWorld to ignore remote keystrokes for a period (programatically of course).
-My application currently uses the last mpeg frame as a background for the menu. The good side of this is that it is fast. The short coming is that sometimes if you hit a big scene change the interlaced frame can make the menu look funky. A simple enough solution is to feed a black frame to the mpeg decoder upon starting of HMO.
-Autodiscovery of TiVos on a network, right now a configuration file is used to tell HMO of other TiVos. I was thinking of a simple UDP broadcast addition to vserver for TiVo's to idenitfy themselves to a starting HMO application.
-Increase the usability of HMO Trick Play to be similar to MyWorld's Trick Play. Maybe even better? 30/15 second skip.
-Some more user friendly (user interface) stuff, which I hate writing. Such Status Bars, OSD playback overlays.

Long Term Goals
-Which aren't so important to me, but should be somewhat easier than the video sharing.
-MP3 playback based on madplay or some other method (TBD).
-Slide shows based on jpegwriter or osdwriter

The reason I am spelling this all out (instead of doing it), is because I am looking for developers to support this application. So if you are interested, let me know.

BTW - HMO is about 128k big right now. This includes everything.

I would appreciate any help regarding ttyS0 and MyWorld. This alone would be a huge help.

AlphaWolf
06-12-2003, 10:44 PM
Just curious, does your software currently work with directivos? Toying with tivoapp/myworld on a directivo is a bitch...

cwingert
06-12-2003, 10:52 PM
I can't see why it wouldn't.

FWIW, with regard to re-directing ttyS0. The method I propose should make myworld unaware that it is not getting input. It is basically stealing remote commands at the pty layer.


Originally posted by AlphaWolf
Just curious, does your software currently work with directivos? Toying with tivoapp/myworld on a directivo is a bitch...

AlphaWolf
06-12-2003, 11:06 PM
I hate to just be asking for features right off, but I think a good thing to add would be something else that v4.0 tivos do, which is allowing shows to be grouped into directories/sorted/etc.

BTW, for this to stream properly on an airnet, it will probably be necessary to find a workaround for the tivo kernels TCP bug that causes the transfers to go so slow.

cwingert
06-12-2003, 11:08 PM
Cool, seems ttyS0 problem has already been solved. Guess I should search more before posting.

http://alt.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=46&rid=&S=2918644cd27fe325311a8e7121452f19&pl_view=&start=0#msg_353

cwingert
06-13-2003, 12:01 AM
Ugh, this works...kinda.

MyWorld doesn't get the remote keypresses.

However, when I setup a recording MyWorld gives that stupid warning "About to start recording", "OK, change channel"

Because MyWorld is waiting for remote input at that point, it blocks until the arbitor comes back to start the recording.

Oh well, back to ttysnoop.

cwingert
06-13-2003, 10:29 AM
Good News.

interceptty seems to do what I want.

It is somewhat uglier then just opening a device because the program has to be running on boot before myworld starts and therefore a reboot has to be done to install it. However, Windows people live with this all the time, no reason I can't :)

bato
06-13-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by cwingert
...therefore a reboot has to be done to install it. However, Windows people live with this all the time, no reason I can't :)
You say you only need 1 reboot to install? I use windows and I don't know what is that, most of the time I need 3 or 4 reboots :D

mavrcksd
06-13-2003, 12:04 PM
THANK YOU:

why should the Series 2 people be spoiled! :)

Just kidding: thanks for the hard work: I would gladly be a tester for you.

Thanks

DocTauri
06-13-2003, 02:42 PM
One thing to look into, perhaps you don't need your own HMO and all the tweaking it takes...

Look at mfs-ftp. Riley says, in his home environment, he has it set to auto push/pull now playing info to the various Tivii. When a non-existant show is selected for play from the list, he then traps the error and forces a pull from the other box (server), then stream/plays the show.

Not exactly sure how he's doing it, but I don't think he's suspending myworld.

Then again, I've only been into Tivo since Nov. and have not written any real code against it.

Doc

mavrcksd
06-13-2003, 02:49 PM
I'm using SMART_FTP to do proxy transfers.. but somehow an index needs to be put on each of the tivos to the nth power, to let the others what they each have.

and what is this special thing in the menu that tivo put out about "tell your friend about tivo, and they save 50.00!"..

Hmmm how did that little additional menu item get in there???

anyway...

mavrcksd
06-13-2003, 03:41 PM
Really amazes me : when i bought my first tivo: thought it was great that I could record while i was gone away on bizness trips.

Now all the nice things. My DVD burner was a great investment. I since have switched to Direct TV. Still have my SA, and it's hacked to capacity.

My neighbors are on the same network as I am, wired/wireless etc, and showing them the Mplayer, so they can see the movies, before I make DVD's

Great work: and I am currently re-building my Server, since it died, and will have an internal ftp server that I would like to push this stuff off to. And maybe run some tmf2mpg conversions in the background as well.

Bring on the utils!!

cwingert
06-13-2003, 03:49 PM
Thought I was talking to myself for a few posts there.

Riley's stuff is cool, but where it differs in what I am doing is in setup time. I have not used Riley's stuff first hand, but I assume it takes about 10 minutes to transfer a 60 minute show between TiVo? Is that accurate?

I am very impatient.

Right now, I can start a Now Showing Entry from another TiVo in about 20 seconds (the lag has to do with Now Showing download from another TiVo, once you get to the menu item for the show you want to watch, it starts playing back within a second).

I can also enhance on this functionality as well. I can play pre-extracted streams on an NFS/SMB share.

Maybe non-TiVo MPEGs (a long shot), dunno yet.

FWIW with regard to the remote control stuff, I was using the tcl stuff to catch remote keypresses for startup and then opening the remote device. Unfortunately, MyWorld processes all these remote control requests. In other words, I can't steal a remote keypress from MyWorld. The shortcoming to this is BOTH my HMO and MyWorld process the keypresses, which slows down the TiVo.

The interceptty method is actually very cool, because I can programatically stop serial bytes from going to MyWorld and redirect them to my HMO. (ie MyWorld never sees them). I can also exit HMO and return full remote control to MyWorld.

The beauty of the serial bytes stealing is that MyWorld goes on fat, dumb, and happy thinking it is in control and actually continutes to process/record the ToDo list. So HMO only needs to be a playback engine.

mavrcksd
06-13-2003, 03:53 PM
Since the remote tivo is a big bucket of data:

And you talked about building on an NFS/SMB share, if a ftp server (win2k, linux etc) was like another "tivo" on the network, could you not start a stream from there? or is that something that is already considered in your software?

Just curious: I have a huge grin on my face, awaiting the attempt:

Watch out EBAY! HERE I COME! :) LOL

cwingert
06-13-2003, 03:58 PM
Sure it could be done with ftp/http, however, these are not true streaming protocols.

Long and the short, I am not sure of the viability of trick play with the use of these protocols. Plus, someone would need to write lightweight versions.

Remember, memory is tight on the TiVo. I don't want memory upgrade to be a requirement for HMO.


Originally posted by mavrcksd
Since the remote tivo is a big bucket of data:

And you talked about building on an NFS/SMB share, if a ftp server (win2k, linux etc) was like another "tivo" on the network, could you not start a stream from there? or is that something that is already considered in your software?

Just curious: I have a huge grin on my face, awaiting the attempt:

Watch out EBAY! HERE I COME! :) LOL

mavrcksd
06-13-2003, 04:04 PM
The IDE upgrade hack that put some RAM on the IDE bus - would that help at all?

Just curious.

Sometimes, if you want more stuff, you gotta get more stuff (other than software utilities) .. I upgraded my PC to do the DVD burning.

Anyways - just a few ideas.

DocTauri
06-13-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by cwingert
Riley's stuff is cool, but where it differs in what I am doing is in setup time. I have not used Riley's stuff first hand, but I assume it takes about 10 minutes to transfer a 60 minute show between TiVo? Is that accurate?

I am very impatient.

Right now, I can start a Now Showing Entry from another TiVo in about 20 seconds (the lag has to do with Now Showing download from another TiVo, once you get to the menu item for the show you want to watch, it starts playing back within a second).

Actually not, the files can be played back (streaming) as soon as they appear in the now playing list, within about 5-10 sec. of starting the xfer.

This brings me to another point Riley... Not to hijack this thread or anything, but if you have the ability to add/remove from the now playing list at will, and can do it live, while now playing is on the screen and the changes shows without having to refresh, then you're not to far away from supporting your own hierarchial menu system... Has anyone tried this approach?

Doc

cwingert
06-13-2003, 04:40 PM
Can you transfer directly from TiVo to TiVo?

Or do you have to do TiVo-PC-TiVo?

One other thing, can it do throttling? Say I am recording a program on one TiVo and want to play it on another, will msftp stay behind the recording chunk automatically?


Originally posted by DocTauri
Actually not, the files can be played back (streaming) as soon as they appear in the now playing list, within about 5-10 sec. of starting the xfer.

This brings me to another point Riley... Not to hijack this thread or anything, but if you have the ability to add/remove from the now playing list at will, and can do it live, while now playing is on the screen and the changes shows without having to refresh, then you're not to far away from supporting your own hierarchial menu system... Has anyone tried this approach?

Doc

DocTauri
06-13-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by cwingert
Can you transfer directly from TiVo to TiVo?

Or do you have to do TiVo-PC-TiVo?

One other thing, can it do throttling? Say I am recording a program on one TiVo and want to play it on another, will msftp stay behind the recording chunk automatically?

Yes, you can do tivo->tivo using something like smartftp. The PC is used for control, but the data passes only between the tivos. As for throttling, that's a question for Riley ;-)

Doc

cwingert
06-13-2003, 04:47 PM
IMHO, the cache card is a waste of time.

Its a really cool project, but (I feel) its use in the TiVo is limited.

Its basic premise is to cache the MFS database and the Now Showing background MPEG. Everything else in the TiVo (ie video streams) is to HUGE to be viable with the cache card (unless the cache card is solid state hard drive).

I think adding the extra RAM chip (ala ElectricLegs) to the TiVo motherboard is more effective.

No offense, Jafa (if you actually visit here).



Originally posted by mavrcksd
The IDE upgrade hack that put some RAM on the IDE bus - would that help at all?

Just curious.

Sometimes, if you want more stuff, you gotta get more stuff (other than software utilities) .. I upgraded my PC to do the DVD burning.

Anyways - just a few ideas.

DocTauri
06-13-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by rc3105

adding recordings to nowshowing is WAY different that adding menus to myworld. that would require actually changing the way the program works not just inserting data into mfs & the nowshowing db

Actually, what I meant was, manipulating now showing's database to BE hierarchial. If you have more than 1 episode of Stargate SG1, make the entry read +Stargate SG1. Then, when selected (here's the tricky part), you'd have to rebuild the db to allow for the expanded selection.

Doc

mavrcksd
06-13-2003, 05:13 PM
Using the MPLAYER approach:

Mplayer tivo://ip/list does the listing. Could a tivo running a service (vserver) not get pinged for what it has in it's list

this populates the tivo that's requesting - as it's the most current that the remote tivo has at that given moment. All the fsid's are there etc...

This list, ported to a nowshowing type list

selection is made

proxy ftp is executed, and video is cached and played... and in hopes of - FW/RW upto a few seconds of what is just now hitting the disk.

I am in television broadcast, and this is something that not even the big players can do! - So our little tivos beat out most of the big boys all together!

Thanks!! Arming my FTP receive program for files! LOL

mavrcksd
06-13-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by rc3105
DOH!

and I know just how to do that, same way I'm choosing which ftp server to browse right now... ;)

--
Riley


<------------- :)

AlphaWolf
06-13-2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by cwingert

The beauty of the serial bytes stealing is that MyWorld goes on fat, dumb, and happy thinking it is in control and actually continutes to process/record the ToDo list. So HMO only needs to be a playback engine.

Awesome, you know what would be cool, is to make that little tiny button below the tv power button function as a hack menu button, and when its pressed, steal all remote control inputs from myworld and make the remote function for a menu or something, and in that menu, have options for the HMO, toggling other hacks, etc.

(I think the specific button I am refering to is labeled as PIP on standalone units, but on directivo units, it just says "menu", but it only does the same thing as the tivo button, making it worthless for anything else)

DocTauri
06-13-2003, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by rc3105
DOH!

and I know just how to do that, same way I'm choosing which ftp server to browse right now... ;)

--
Riley
This is something I've been wanting to try, but my lack of knowledge of the TiVo DB structure, TCL experience (most of my stuff is C), and time just kept putting it behind.

I get to beta test it when you figure something out ;)

Doc

DocTauri
06-13-2003, 09:00 PM
coincidently enough, I just finished indexing the TBserver stargate archives in prep for the new season which starts in about 15 seconds. one "folder" with the entire series loaded behind it sounds pretty handy!

Thank God for TiVo... I forgot that was tonight!

Cya!

mavrcksd
06-17-2003, 12:32 PM
Curious if possible to test this. I have Tivo #2 coming in the mail soon! :)

Thanks

cwingert
06-17-2003, 01:06 PM
If you are willing to live with some limitations, I suppose I could post a binary image.

The big limitation right now is that MyWorld has to be suspended for HMO to run. This means that you can not record shows (or will the ToDo run) on the TiVo while you are using HMO.

An update on my progress.
#1, it is summer, don't expect a bunch. My kids need attention too. :)
#2, I have the remote (control) server working. It sits between the kernel driver for ttyS0 (and the IR controller) and MyWorld. I can pick up remote commands either passively or actively (ie MyWorld never sees them). This needs a lot of testing before I am happy with it, because it can cause a TiVo not to boot to MyWorld. Which, depending on where your ethernet/telnet start is in rc.sysinit, it might require a drive pull to fix.

I also picked up a 3rd TiVo last week. TiVo here, TiVo there, TiVo everywhere. :)

cwingert
06-18-2003, 01:07 AM
After fighting the serial port remote server issues for a couple of days. I think I have found this to be a unsolvable problem, with a UNIX process serial layer solution. I have a complete working remote server that can block serial commands from reaching myworld, however, there is a problem with the IR blaster (which is on the same serial port) for cable box control. I believe that is it either timing (or a baud) related issue.

I think I am going to implement a simpler solution. I have basically characterized the behaviour of MyWorld when changing channels to start a ToDo recording .

T-50 Throw channel change banner up
T-12 Remove channel change banner (if no input)
T-2 Change channel and start recording.

I figure if I disable the HMO remote control (and access to the serial port) between T-5 to T+1 of the start for each ToDo entry. Recordings can continue as usual.

I have working code for this already.

mavrcksd
06-18-2003, 09:59 AM
Always amazed at what you guys can come up with.

I'm more of a windoze programmer.

I know enough linux to be dangerous - and that isn't saying much.

Thanks for all the tools.

cwingert
06-21-2003, 11:21 AM
OK, I have a working prototype and I was able to achieve all my short term goals.

-Starts/stops via the remote control (not bash) via remote key presses, currently "Clear-Clear-Clear-Clear"
-Select from a Now Showing list retrieved from a selected TiVo
-Playback of stream from remote or local TiVo
-Return to MyWorld fairly cleanly upon exit of the HMO application
-I can disable remote input while a recording is starting and ending (8 seconds around a recording epoch), which allows MyWorld to change the channel and start/stop recording.
-I have an autodiscovery protocol implemented on a new version of vserver, that allows zero configuration on the HMO application.
-I have a suitable black background for the menus.
-Menus are still uglier than the TiVo version, but they are FAST!
-Limited trick play :
--Stop
--Pause
--FF 30 chunks
--REW 30 chunks
--No continuous FF or continuous REW.

OK, this is obviously not the final version.

However, I do need some alpha testers. The first two SA S1 and two DTV S1 people to send me an PM will qualify. In your PM, please specify TiVo Type and TiVo Software version. You are also REQUIRED to give feedback. You will be booted from the next alpha test, if you don't.

This will be a BINARY ONLY release, so if that bothers you, don't participate.

Usual disclamers apply as an alpha tester.
You may need to restore your TiVo from backup (unlikely, none of the stupid crap I have ever done to the TiVo has caused this to happen), you may lose a ToDo recording (somewhat likely), it may crash your TiVo (likely).

Thanks

mpauley
06-26-2003, 09:11 PM
How is the beta testing going?

-mickey

cwingert
06-26-2003, 11:57 PM
Actually, I haven't released anything yet.

I kind of got a lack luster response to the Alpha Test, so I was wondering if this HMO feature was actually interesting to anyone (but myself).

Anyway, lots of stuff is working. I have Local Playback, Remote Playback, MP3 Playback, JPEG Viewing.

Only "major" feature is TY stream playback from a file.

Anyway, I am testing it on my own right now. Listening to an mp3 right now.

Dibblah
06-27-2003, 05:33 AM
I'd assumed all the places were snapped up!

Would be VERY interested in alpha testing.

I have a few UI ideas that I'd like to play with... But my coding style requires someone's code to rip off first ;)... Errr... I mean develop from.

(2 UK SA Tivos, 2.5.5-01-1-023), about 240Gb disk space for testing.

Cheers,

Allan.

burriko
06-27-2003, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by cwingert
I kind of got a lack luster response to the Alpha Test, so I was wondering if this HMO feature was actually interesting to anyone (but myself).

I'd imagine there's not many people who have more than one tivo. I certainly find this project very interesting, it's just that i don't really have any use for it.

Dibblah
06-27-2003, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by burriko
I'd imagine there's not many people who have more than one tivo. I certainly find this project very interesting, it's just that i don't really have any use for it.

Well, I'm just guessing here. But it may be possible to have an 'archive' server. Not just Tivo -> Tivo.

Cheers,

Allan.

rrm64
06-27-2003, 11:40 AM
cwingert,

I PM'd you a few days back to help with the test. I have 4 SAs - all networked with various connections.

I also have quite a bit of background in software development both infrastructure and GUI.

I am still interested in testing/implementing this if you will consider it.

Thanks,

rrm64

cwingert
06-27-2003, 12:07 PM
Hey Riley,

Could you provide the format of the file mfs-ftp files? Is there a 128k header chunk with the database information? Is there a signature?

Thanks



Originally posted by rc3105
the archive server angle is good since it doesn't require insert & allocating space to watch a remote recording.

I'd be more interested the ablility to play regular mpeg from a dvd or other source through the tivo. sounds like you've allready got most of the pieces built to do that


--
Riley

Attack
06-27-2003, 05:19 PM
I am interested in HMO for Series 1 TiVo's, but don't want to stop any possible recordings on either TiVo while using HMO.

Also all three of my TiVo's are in the same room but once I get another TV one will get moved to a different room.

My roommate and I have 5 SA TiVo's and 1 Direct TiVo in the house and are currently thinking about building a 2+ Terrabyte NAS so a Storage server would be much cooler.

mavrcksd
06-27-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Dibblah
Well, I'm just guessing here. But it may be possible to have an 'archive' server. Not just Tivo -> Tivo.

Cheers,

Allan.

I just purchased my second tivo, added a turbonet, got the MAC address all sorted out, and am willing to get this working.

Right now i'm using MFS_FTP and smart ftp to watch stuff in the other room, on the other tivo. So I start the FTP going, and then 10 min later it's cached enough so that I can watch it in there, and skip through some of the commercials.

Also, I want to build a TY archive, so I can watch stuff with mplayer from a server or tivo... etc.

Keep me posted.

Also, good to hear that you have the JPEG viewer working. Friends and I like to take pictures of our gatherings, and then have a slideshow effect.

The jpegviewer plugin that I use for the tivoweb - doesn't work 100% (as described on the install pack).

thanks again!

cwingert
06-29-2003, 09:36 PM
Home Media Option =============================================================

Support for Video Sharing for Series 1 TiVos.
Support for jpegs presentation through jpegwriter.
Support for mp3s playback through madplay.


Requirements ==================================================================
-{TiVo, Turbo, Air}Net
-Multiple TiVos
-Correctly configured IP network


Features ======================================================================
-Menu Interface, much faster than MyWorld,
-TiVo Selection based on autodiscovery protocol
-Now Showing selection downloaded from selected TiVo
-Playback of TiVo streams from either local TiVos or remote TiVos
-Limited Trick Play
-Allows MyWorld to record new streams while HMO application is active
-Return to MyWorld cleanly upon exit from HMO application
-Autodiscovery protocol uses UDP broadcast to find other TiVos. So your
TiVos need to be on the same subnet and also have the same broadcast
address. If this doesn't work, you can specify it in your TiVos in the
configuration protocol


Issues ========================================================================
-Currently impact to ToDo recordings should be minimal, but it *IS* possible
to lock out MyWorld. If you really are concerned about your upcoming
recording, don't use HMO during that time period.
-Playing MP3s with madplay can severely impact processor load. It is
suggested that MP3s not be played back with an upcoming Todo Recording.
I have successfully recorded programs while mp3s are playing, however, up
to this point it is not 100% guaranteed.
-This many not work on Sony TiVos as they use a different remote control
(and different IR codes).


Configuration File ============================================================
-Specify the configuration file on the command line.
-"tivo=Living Room TiVo ; 192.168.1.101" specifies a TiVo to add to the
TiVo List menu
-"skipchannel = CALLSIGN" allows HMO to filter questionable content
-"lock = 1234" allows HMO to accept a password to override skipchannel
functionality
-"mp3 = Share Name ; /mounted/directory" allows HMO to play mp3s out of a
directory. Note ALL files in that directory will be played with madplay
-"jpg = Share Name ; /mounted/directory" allows HMO to show mp3s out of a
directory. Note ALL files in that directory will be played with jpegwriter
-"tydir = Share Name ; /mounted/directory" allows HMO to play previously
extracted ty streams. Note ALL files in that directory will be played
as ty streams
-There can be multiple tivo, skipchannel, jpg, mp3, tydir lines in your
configuration file.
-Example File
<bof>
# This TiVo is on a different subnet
tivo = Master Bedroom TiVo ; 192.168.10.103
mp3 = Phat tunes ; /var/hack/gw/mp3/
skipchannel = ESPN
lock = 1234
<eof>


Keystrokes ====================================================================
-[Clear][Clear][Clear] start the HMO application, from MyWorld
-[TiVo] returns you the the previous menu or exits from the main menu
-[Select] selects a menu item
-[Pause] will pause playback, ty stream only.
-[Fwd] will fast forward 30 chunks, only once per keypress, ty stream only.
-[Back] will rewind 30 chunks, only once per keypress, ty stream only

-More keystrokes to be supported at some point.


ToDo (highest priority to lowest priority) ====================================
-Better trick play support. Use the stream header to know find out where
the GOPs are.
-Combine vserver and hmo to use less memory.
-Combine with madplay to use less memory.
-Combine with jpegwriter to use less memory.
-Playback of "other" MPEG streams.
-Pretty up the menu interface, this is a tradeoff though. The more
pretty, the less fast.


Release Notes =================================================================
-HMO for Series 1 V0.0 (Sun Jun 29 18:26:45 PDT 2003)
-Initial Release

cwingert
06-29-2003, 09:37 PM
Installation Notes ============================================================
-Included in the binary are four files {vserver, hmo, hmowatch.tcl, hmo.cfg}

1. Create /var/hack/hmo/

2. Copy the install files to /var/hack/hmo/
{ hmowatch.tcl, hmo, hmo.cfg }

3. Copy helper files to /var/hack/hmo
{ jpegwriter, libm.so, madplay }

4. You will need to install "vserver" on every TiVo that you want to stream
from. You can replace the mplayer vserver (if you use it) with this new
version. The startup script is most likely /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit
-Set the environment variable VSERVER_NAME in your startup script
with a descriptive name of your TiVo such as
export VSERVER_NAME="Office TiVo"
-Add "vserver&" to your startup script

5. You will need to install "hmowatch.tcl" on every TiVo that you want to
stream to. The startup script is most likely /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit
-Add "hmowatch.tcl&" to your startup script

6. Reboot your TiVo (or start vserver and hmowatch.tcl manually).

7. Press [Clear][Clear][Clear] and HMO should start up. Its probably best
to startup HMO from "TiVo Central."


Credit ========================================================================
-Tridge (The Ultimate Reverse Engineer) for the basis vserver code.
-Mike Hill (aka Mr. Belboz from TC) for the OSD Code (osdtxt).
-Warren Toomey (aka DoctorW from DD) for the Remote Control code (PlayItSam).
-Mike Baker (aka Embeem from TC) for tidbit code, functions, and pointers.

cwingert
06-29-2003, 09:43 PM
I have lots of stuff working now. See the release notes above.

-TiVo to TiVo streaming
-MP3 Player (from local storage or file share)
-JPEG Viewer (from local storage or file share)
-Previously extracted ty stream playback (from local storage or file share)

FYI, I have quite a few SA Alpha Testers requestors, but very few DTiVo testers.

I'll contact the alpha testers via PM.

Thanks

sirfergy
06-29-2003, 11:45 PM
Wow, this all sounds great! Question for you. If I am interested in buying a 2nd tivo, do I need to also get a subscription for it? I plan to only use it for your HMO program.

Thanks!

cwingert
06-29-2003, 11:59 PM
You don't need a subscription for the first one. :)

Seriously, to answer your question, you don't as long as pull the drive to install the ethernet drivers and telnet.

I am actually listening to an mp3 on a brand TiVo box that has the "you need subscribe" nags going.


Originally posted by sirfergy
Wow, this all sounds great! Question for you. If I am interested in buying a 2nd tivo, do I need to also get a subscription for it? I plan to only use it for your HMO program.

Thanks!

cwingert
06-30-2003, 12:01 AM
I did a quick test tonght and was actually able to play a non-TiVo MPEG through the TiVo decoder.

I basically fed a demuxed video file to the mpeg decoder. The only thing I am not sure about is the overhead need to parse the MPEG PS stream.

We'll see though.

mavrcksd
06-30-2003, 09:41 AM
You posted the installation instructions:

However, are the files accesable yet?

Thanks

wzl
06-30-2003, 04:23 PM
what would you say about the feasability of using this w/ friends over the internet... from what i have witnessed, the transfer rate of the TurboNet card is fairly slow so I don't see why this would be a problem?

sirfergy
06-30-2003, 04:37 PM
Theoretically, could this be used to stream from a DirectTiVo to a SA TiVo?

lart2150
06-30-2003, 09:20 PM
wzl if you really know how to use ssh and you have a linux box on both lans you can tunnle the conection between the two. but I only know it can be done but not how :-D

cwingert
06-30-2003, 11:40 PM
Streaming over the internet is not a problem as long as your link supports 200 KBytes/sec (thats Bytes not Bits). 200 KBytes/sec is the rate for basic compression on my SA.

Most DSL/Cable installations don't support this speed.

FYI, TurboNet is way underutilized during real time streaming from a TiVo. In fact you can support many streams from a TiVo. I have done 3 streams at the same time.

I have played some DTiVo streams on my SA box, but by no means have encompassed all testing.

YMMV

cwingert
06-30-2003, 11:41 PM
I have not sent any PM or links to the software yet to the Alpha Testers. I am still chasing a couple of bugs and real life has been calling in the past couple of days.

mavrcksd
07-06-2003, 10:59 PM
Hope that you have had a good holiday weekend...

Any firework explosions on the new HMO application? :)

DocTauri
07-07-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by cwingert
I have lots of stuff working now. See the release notes above.

-TiVo to TiVo streaming
-MP3 Player (from local storage or file share)
-JPEG Viewer (from local storage or file share)
-Previously extracted ty stream playback (from local storage or file share)

FYI, I have quite a few SA Alpha Testers requestors, but very few DTiVo testers.

I'll contact the alpha testers via PM.

Thanks
I have 3 DTivo's, 2 are S1 (Sony T-60's). Currently running mfs_ftp, I'd be happy to help you test.

Doc

P.S. I'm not sure if I've seen this, but do you intend to compile this for S2 as well?

cwingert
07-08-2003, 01:24 AM
You can pick up a version of the software at :
http://tivo-mplayer.sourceforge.net/hmo/

If you contacted me for the Alpha Test, your username is your dealdatabase username and your password is your username concatenated with the time for the FIRST private message you sent me regarding being an HMO alpha tester.

Example :
-someuser sent me a PM at 07:30am, the password would be "someuser0730".
-anotheruser sent me a PM at 07:30pm, the password would be "anotheruser0730".

You should also check out the README file, it tells you where to download the helper applications and a couple of new remote commands that I added.

DocTauri
07-08-2003, 06:15 AM
Hmmm, unfortunately, I did not contact you for the Alpha test, what do I need to do in this case?

Thanks,
Doc

tivowatcher
07-08-2003, 06:17 PM
Same here - I didn't even get into this until this last weekend, now I am knee deep with MFS_FTP. :)

I'd really like to check out your solution if you'd like the feedback from one more tester.

FYI: MFS_FTP is working ok, except the transfer rates are bad. I'm especially curious to see how yours handles import transfer rates and whether you can start watching the stream before it finishes.

cwingert
07-08-2003, 07:06 PM
Sorry, right now I already have 10 beta testers. I don't want to manage anymore. Half of the beta testers have already downloaded the application.

I also have excellent feedback from MavrckSD. Hint Hint to the other beta testers.

BTW, HMO doesn't actually transfer ty streams from TiVo to TiVo, it streams them. Once a chunk is played on the "streamed-to" TiVo it is "thrown away." Think of the TiVos around your house as ty stream fileservers. The end result is playback begins immediately after a now showing entry is selected.

However, HMO does give you the ability to play previously extracted streams on a fileshare.

I may add http/ftp support, not sure yet. MavrckSD says smb streaming sucks. From personal experience I know nfs streaming works fine.

MavrckSD, What the processor speed and ram size of the Windows machine you tested on?

mavrcksd
07-08-2003, 07:26 PM
It's a 800mhz running NFS.. not SMB..

I have in my tivo

insmod -f nfs-tivo25.o
mount -t xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:/c/tivo/video /var/hack/Server/video

it's very jittery with nothing else going on on the network.

mavrcksd
07-08-2003, 07:30 PM
Forgot:

it has 512mb ram

cwingert
07-08-2003, 07:37 PM
Oh, I re-read your e-mail. Try use the smb module on your TiVo.

Should be better for Windows. NFS on Windows is a bad hack.



Originally posted by mavrcksd
It's a 800mhz running NFS.. not SMB..

I have in my tivo

insmod -f nfs-tivo25.o
mount -t xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:/c/tivo/video /var/hack/Server/video

it's very jittery with nothing else going on on the network.

mavrcksd
07-08-2003, 07:44 PM
you have some application / server/ tricks?

I havent found a setup that works yet.

mavrcksd
07-09-2003, 10:34 AM
How does Tivo get those annoying little AD's to appear in the Tivo Central.

When you activate them, they go off and play something.

I'm wondering if we could do a lot more with this.

Activate - launch: HMO, tivoweb, ftp, mfs_ftp. etc...

??

cwingert
07-10-2003, 11:00 AM
I will be putting up a new release in the next day or so. Hopefully fix some problems that exist today.

New features
-Watchdog functionality
-Add tighter error checking on playing chunks loaded during playback
-Play now unpauses playback
-Plays nicer with recording in progress

Please note that 8 people have been bumped from the alpha due to lack of providing results. I have added 2 new people to the beta (you were PM'd with instructions).

cwingert
07-10-2003, 11:07 AM
NA

n4zmz
07-10-2003, 11:34 AM
Well, once again, interesting things are happening before I give my talk about advanced TiVo topics.

Any possibility of getting in on the next round of testing?

invader zog
07-10-2003, 03:57 PM
I just starting watching this thread.

I'm actually not very interested in doing Tivo to Tivo streaming. I'm interested in streaming .TY or .TMF files from my home file server.

It sounds like there are a variety of projects (MSFTP, Mplayer w/ vserver, and the HMO project) that are all converging on this -- could someone help me out with some potential configurations that accomplish this today?

Thanks!!

keith721
07-10-2003, 06:35 PM
i didn't notice anyone mentioning the buffersizes used with the NFS mount command. if you include 8K read/write buffersizes to the command, it works *much* smoother:

# mount -t nfs -o rsize=8192,wsize=8192 192.168.1.195:/TivoFiles /mnt

mavrcksd
07-10-2003, 07:12 PM
That helped some, but it still glitches about every 10 seconds...

much better than before...

But still not viewable

JasonJLee
07-11-2003, 03:07 PM
I'm very interested in being able to stream mpegs straight to screen. I'd love to know how it would cope with different bitrates and resolutions.

I'm sure its a little way off, but by posting I can get email notifications on this thread.

Great work btw, I thought no one knew how to stop and restart myworld, or at least no one did last time I looked.

J

cwingert
07-11-2003, 05:28 PM
Stopping myworld is easy.

Co-existing with myworld is more of a task (and is what HMO does). myworld handles recordings in your ToDo list, while HMO plays from local or remote TiVos.

invader zog
07-11-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by DocTauri

Look at mfs-ftp. Riley says, in his home environment, he has it set to auto push/pull now playing info to the various Tivii. When a non-existant show is selected for play from the list, he then traps the error and forces a pull from the other box (server), then stream/plays the show.

Not exactly sure how he's doing it, but I don't think he's suspending myworld.


I also posted this in the MFS-FTP thread, but does anyone know if it possible for me to play with this? I'd love to have my Tivo stream .TY+ or TMF files from a FTP server.

*drool*

mavrcksd
07-11-2003, 07:17 PM
Well - if your box is windoze, or even unix,

I'm just using NFS - and it's getting better. I did some network changes, and am getting some better throughput, but going to do some more testing.

Mav

invader zog
07-11-2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by mavrcksd
Well - if your box is windoze, or even unix,

I'm just using NFS - and it's getting better. I did some network changes, and am getting some better throughput, but going to do some more testing.

Mav

I'm open to FTP, SMB, NFS.... I don't care :) :)

Any hints on how can I get the Tivo to pull a stream from my server?

cwingert
07-14-2003, 02:55 PM
Please note to any alpha tester.

Sony TiVo have different remotes and different IR codes. HMO will not work on these TiVos (right now). I have to work with some of the Sony owners to get all the IR codes for the buttons.

This is also in the README BTW.

Screamin6
07-14-2003, 04:15 PM
Shouldn't the front buttons work instead of the remote? My buttons did not work, same problem I had with the remote on the Sony. Or are the keypresses registered the same?

Steve

cwingert
07-14-2003, 05:12 PM
Front buttons?

tivowatcher
07-14-2003, 05:16 PM
Sony SVR-2000's have no buttons on the front. Remote control or nothing apparently.

Not sure how other TIVO's work, but my Series 2 is also buttonless.

:p

Screamin6
07-14-2003, 06:02 PM
Sony SAT-T60
Here is a link an image:
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/sc/6830484-2-300-overview-1.gif

cwingert
07-16-2003, 09:22 PM
A new release is up. The README is attached.

Please READ the README.

Some cool new features.

If you are an alpha tester, same bat place.

http://tivo-mplayer.sourceforge.net/hmo/

cwingert
07-16-2003, 09:25 PM
NA

cwingert
07-16-2003, 09:28 PM
README attached.

KeyLargoDave
07-16-2003, 10:21 PM
Ok, I downloaded and installed the latest alpha and unfortunately, it's taken a step backwards. On my Hughes DTivo, (mostly stock with Tivo's 3.1) when I press clear 3 times, it locks everything up.

bash-2.02# ps ax |grep hmo
121 ? S 0:00 tivosh /var/hack/hmo/hmowatch.tcl
131 ? SW 0:00 /var/hack/hmo/vserver
229 ? R 0:11 /var/hack/hmo/hmo /var/hack/hmo/hmo.cfg
232 p0 SW 0:00 grep hmo


hmo is running but nothing is being displayed on the TV. If I kill the hmo process, myworld takes over again which is better than the last version, when the last version locked, I was forced to reboot to get anything going again.

cwingert
07-17-2003, 06:48 PM
Dave,

I sent you a PM, the version you downloaded was a debug version. You can download a new one.

AlphaWolf
07-17-2003, 09:45 PM
cwingert: looks like you are now running into some of the problems with the dtivo tivoapp that I described earlier :D

cwingert
07-20-2003, 04:34 PM
OK, some updates.

I got TMF parsing working last week.

I am ripping out the serial remote control system and installing a more myworld friendly event system (Thanks to Embeem for the basis code). What this means is that things are going to change a bit.

I'm thinking a scenario as follows : Go to TiVo Central or Now Showing, hit Thumbs Up. TiVo goes into suspend mode, after going into suspend mode, HMO will start.

The nice thing about using the event system for remote command inputs is that I do not have to parse IR codes. MyWorld will do this for me and provide me with remote control enumerations. The only short coming is that I can not use the TiVo or LiveTV buttons as control to HMO (no biggie). Then again I don't have to give up serial port access around ToDo starts/stops. Todo Recordings will be more seamless.

I am also working on a playlist selection from the menus.

I have also had some requests for ftp as a streaming protcol. I've looked into the viability of this. It really doesn't work all the well as a skipping-stream procotol. If you want to play from start to end it should work fine. I think that a feeble stream skipping might work, but it is really dependant on the ftp server itself. There are two commands (that are not supported by all ftp servers), that are crucial to stream skipping (abort and restart).
Anyone looked into this before?

I am also thinking of pulling the alpha web site for HMO. There is really only two (or so) people providing valuable input.

I should have a new release sometime next week.

mavrcksd
07-20-2003, 07:24 PM
Sounds good.

Let me know..

Mav

cwingert
07-21-2003, 12:15 AM
New release is up.

Highlights :
-Event system support
-Playlist support
-TMF support

New install and startup procedure. PLEASE read README!

Thanks

swinokur
07-21-2003, 02:02 AM
Is there a http/1.1 server available for the tivo? VLC (www.videolan.org, btw) uses this for "streaming" and it can do seek, fast/slow play, etc.

... just a thought.

cwingert
07-25-2003, 12:28 AM
Nothing major, some code cleanup.

This release is primarily for Sony D-TiVo owners.

redhat39
07-25-2003, 10:05 AM
Hey cwingert when might some of the rest of us get to try this software out? I'm really interested in the MP3 and Picture sharing mostly. I'd love to be added to your beta list if possible. Pretty please? :)

jg123
07-25-2003, 10:30 AM
Add me! Add me!

bfdhe
07-26-2003, 11:04 AM
Me too! My three Tivo's would just love to give this a try! (Phillips SA1 Tivos with Turbonet attached to wireless bridges, increased HDD capacity plus various other hacks)

jodell
08-03-2003, 02:03 AM
How is the testing going? My three Tivi are anxiously awaiting the HMO option for the lowly ol' Series 1's.

Keep up the good work!

Jeff

gobsmack
08-06-2003, 06:11 PM
So what is the status of this project?

Is there an alpha or beta to try?

cwingert
08-07-2003, 01:05 PM
Alpha test is on-going.

Things are going well.

sirfergy
08-07-2003, 01:08 PM
Question. I've tried the XBMP to do the tivo streaming and in the end, it isn't very good. How well does this compare to XBMP? Before I invest in a second TiVo, I'd like to know if it really provides good quality, smooth streaming.

Thanks!

BTW, I appreciate all your hard work in this area!

mavrcksd
08-07-2003, 04:42 PM
It streams WONDERFUL.

and the other features are really nice!

Mav

sirfergy
08-07-2003, 08:08 PM
Are there any plans to make it available to everyone? I was thinking of buying those $89.95 refurbished TiVos.

mavrcksd
08-07-2003, 08:31 PM
where is that deal?

I would buy it - you wont be sorry : I got a 3rd one off fleabay so I could tinker a little more - and in the meantime can watch movies from the others.

MAV

sirfergy
08-07-2003, 08:51 PM
Anyone intrested in a replaytv? :)

mavrcksd
08-07-2003, 09:03 PM
too funny.

I was talking to a friend of mine about the Replay. And a station that I was doing some work for - bought 2 of them, to stream video - and couldn't get it to work out of the box.

Oh well..

excellent work Cwingert

gobsmack
08-07-2003, 09:08 PM
So let me ask the unasked question: when might we expect a beta?

And John Carmack has trademarked the response "when it is ready" -- use it and you'll owe him a dollar or two...

razor
08-13-2003, 10:23 PM
Ok, I've read through this entire thread and I still have some quesitons:

I've got a series 1 DSR6000 with a 9th tee card and now a new series2 (I'll get the USB Ethernet soon). Do I sign up for HMO with Tivo then install this software (when available) on my series 1?

How do I get the alpha or beta list? :D

-R

mavrcksd
08-13-2003, 10:28 PM
HMO being sold by tivo is for Series 2 only.

Cwingerts hmo is for Series 1 right now.

Mav

razor
08-14-2003, 10:05 AM
Right, so I sign up for HMO with my series2 and use Cwingerts s/w on my series1?


Originally posted by mavrcksd
HMO being sold by tivo is for Series 2 only.

Cwingerts hmo is for Series 1 right now.

Mav

mavrcksd
08-14-2003, 11:32 AM
They will not be able to share files as they are really two different HMO systems.

The only "common" thing that you could do is view JPG's from a common source (windows/linux) pc.

I do not know if cwingert is going to have a S2 version of his HMO.

I have 3 SA's - and have been testing the software and it is working very well..

MAV

redhat39
08-14-2003, 02:03 PM
Any progress reports there cwingert?

/me wishes he could alpha test. ;)

cwingert
08-14-2003, 09:01 PM
To answer some questions.

My HMO Front End will run ONLY on a Series 1 box. However, vserver (created by Tridge) runs on both the S1 and S2 boxes.

What does this mean?

From an S1 front end running HMO, you can play streams from : any S1 running vserver, any S2 running vserver, or a ty file on a file share. (and maybe a generic MPEG at some point).

From an S2 front end, you can do NADA. Why is this? Well two reasons : (1) TiVo is trying to make money here and (2) there is no public docs on the S2's OSD chip (which AFAIK is a Broadcom chip that requires NDA to get docs).

Does anyone have contacts at Broadcom?

cwingert
08-14-2003, 09:04 PM
Not much new here, been busy with life and vacation.

I have been working (on and off) on a better version of stream skipping (that more or less) resembles what MyWorld does. Right now skipping in a stream causes a blocky MPEG transition (like MPEG errors on your cable box) upon transition back to play.

jodell
08-15-2003, 02:44 AM
cwingert,

Any idea when you will let the general public get their hands on this nifty piece of software?

Jeff

wating (somewhat im)patiently :')

RxMan
08-15-2003, 09:22 AM
I use an mp3 player (Media Center by JRiver) that says it can be used with the Series 2 Tivos.
Any chance that this HMO for Series 1 could be coded to handle other mp3 software like this one?

(I have no idea what JRiver did to make their software compatible with Series 2 Tivos, but, they would probably share the info. if I asked)

THANKS!

mrblack51
08-15-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by RxMan
I use an mp3 player (Media Center by JRiver) that says it can be used with the Series 2 Tivos.
Any chance that this HMO for Series 1 could be coded to handle other mp3 software like this one?

(I have no idea what JRiver did to make their software compatible with Series 2 Tivos, but, they would probably share the info. if I asked)

THANKS!

i doubt it, at least at this point. the current goals are functionality as far as i know, and the compatibility issues that you mention will be added later if possible.

rbird
08-15-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by RxMan
(I have no idea what JRiver did to make their software compatible with Series 2 Tivos, but, they would probably share the info. if I asked) What they did was license the software/specs/dev kit directly from Tivo. So I think they WOULDN'T probably share. :)

I don't know this for a fact, but I don't know how else they could possibly have released their software the same day as Tivo released HMO.

Another call here for a public beta. :) I have a networked S1, a bunch of tys on several PCs, and another S1 I will probably get connected (anyone using the alpha with AirNet?) REAL quick when this software becomes available.

Bob

mavrcksd
08-17-2003, 02:37 PM
Well, I had my tivos networked via 10mbps for a little while, and it had a rough time playing ty/tmf files off the computer.

When I got it connected to a 100mbs hub it went really well.

Using airnet will probably work well in streaming from Tivo to Tivo, but from the PC, I dont think it would be very good.

I have a linksys WAP and Ethernet bridge that I can run a test on and see how it does.

MAVsd

rbiro
08-17-2003, 03:21 PM
At my cable system, C-Span 2 is multiplexed with other channels. During the daytime it is C-Span, and in the evening it is replaced by Bravo.

Since the West Wing is now on Bravo, I'd like Tivo to be able to intelligently schedule. Just choosing Bravo won't help me when it tried to record at noon and it is some tally of a Congressional vote.

In the Tivo front end replacement, how about the ability to time shift channel allocations: 8am-8pm 62 = CSpan and 8pm-8am = Bravo.

Seems straightforward for channel browsing, but what about scheduling?

jodell
08-17-2003, 05:16 PM
rbiro,

I think you might want to start a new thread for this topic. It only seems to be VERY loosely related to the HMO on series 1 topic.

I don't have an answer for how one would modify the Tivo software to understand this multiplexing. When I worked at another PVR company we had written code to handle multiplexed channels, assuming the guide info was properly represented in the download from the guide data provider. I would start with asking Tivo if they can get their guide data provider to properly indicate the split channels.

Now back to HMO on Series 1.

Jeff

dabbler
08-21-2003, 02:27 PM
Has slide shows made it into cwingert's HMO or is he still looking for help to do that?

sanderton
08-22-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by rc3105
it's not sharing that's the problem, it's supporting it. look at the main thread for any mainstream utility. 90% is the same questions over & over & over & over & over

registering an event handler and launching a few procs from the standard tcl ftp library, I thought SOMEbody else would have written it by now. I've got enough on my plate as it is... :eek:

I may come back to it when I pin down the durn tivosh pipe bug that's bogging down insert on some configs

--
Riley

Please, please do!

I have two TiVos in differnt rooms connected to different programme sources - one satellite, one digital terrestrial. Being able to have a synched now playing list which called the programme from whichever Tivo held the file would be joy!

You hint that it's not that hard. If you have some programming experience, but not in TCL, is it feasible to have a go?

rc3105
08-22-2003, 09:12 PM
sure, tcl's not difficult. "practical programming in tcl & tk" by brent welsh will get you up to speed. many of the chapters are available free online. there are lots of tcl programming resources & primers online also

http://www.activestate.com/Products/Tcl_Dev_Kit/

has some excellent packages including mac/pc/win tcl environments with helpfiles. their commercial dev kits are pretty handy too but not required


http://freewrap.sourceforge.net/

is handy for "compiling" tcl scripts into "binaries" for distribution


one note, tivo tcl is an older version (8.0 or so) and command sytax has evolved. the second printing of welsh's book & the older active state packages syntax match more closely


tivoweb has most of the mfs db commands you might need & mfs_ftp / tivo control station probably have the rest


--
Riley

mavrcksd
08-23-2003, 10:54 AM
Yes it has.

dabbler
08-23-2003, 10:49 PM
I see that cwingert has stated that there is a "JPEG Viewer (from local storage or file share)". Is this the same as a slideshow? Is there Windows software to conrol the slideshow ala TiVo's HMO Desktop software? Is the JPEG Viewer limited to 256 colors? Sorry for all the questions. I look forward to trying it out when it is ready.

jodell
08-23-2003, 11:42 PM
cwingert,

Do you have an update on the testing progress and a possible public release? My 3 Tivi are ready and waiting. :')

Thanks for all of your hard work,

Jeff

mavrcksd
08-24-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by dabbler
I see that cwingert has stated that there is a "JPEG Viewer (from local storage or file share)". Is this the same as a slideshow? Is there Windows software to conrol the slideshow ala TiVo's HMO Desktop software? Is the JPEG Viewer limited to 256 colors? Sorry for all the questions. I look forward to trying it out when it is ready.

Slideshow along with Playlist for MP3 was added. I have been using it. The color pallette I'm not sure of.

MAV

cwingert
08-29-2003, 03:34 PM
I put up a new version with some minor changes and bug fixes. I also changed the name from HMO to OHM, per conflict with the TiVo application. Embeem came up with the name.

New feature is cool stream skipping for this release. IMHO skipping is very usable now.

I have worked a bit with "other" MPEGs and found that the SA Series 1 box does NOT support AC-3 audio, so playing DVDs is pretty mute (pun intended). The DTiVo S1 does support, AC-3, but since I have no access to one, I can't debug it. I'm not sure if I will work on it or not.

Anyway, Alpha testers have at it.

Location changed : http://tivo-mplayer.sourceforge.net/ohm/

BTW - Remind me to never change the name of an application again. What a pain in the ass.

Thanks

compwiz312
08-29-2003, 10:14 PM
So, when are you considering a beta release?

BeauB
09-03-2003, 11:28 PM
Any word on a beta? (or expanded Alpha???)

Thanks!

lemketron
09-09-2003, 02:13 AM
I've been away from these boards for a while, but came back to see what the current state of the art was... I am blown away by things like mplayer and OHM. I have a 120GB S1 (that started out as a 14-hour and spent a few years as a 45-hour box).

Now I desperately want to get something to connect to the TV in my workout room to watch shows recorded on the S1 in the family room. I've got tyserver and vserver and the web server on my TurboNet'd S1; my near-term goal is to be able to watch Leno while working out.

Two options I can see: (1) Buy an XBox, figure out how to mod it, and run the tivo-mplayer for XBox. Pro: It's an XBox, and can play games and DVDs too. Con: Don't know anything about modding an XBox. (2) Buy another S1 box somewhere, add another TurboNet, and turn it into a playback machine.

After seeing this OHM stuff, I'm leaning towards getting another S1 box. It would seem that it doesn't need to have a subscription, but does it matter whether it's one of the old "grandfathered" boxes or not? I don't really intend to do any recording on it so I don't think I need the program guide or a subscription. I don't even really need to hook up cable to it though it would be nice to be able to watch live stuff with pause, etc. (even without the guide).

So, will any S1 box work (and what's this about cheap refurb boxes)? My S1 has always been a lifetime box so I don't know much about the "nags". How often does an unsubbed box nag you to subscribe? Does it get in the way of using OHM?

This stuff is exactly what I've been waiting for since I got my first S1 (but I'm too cheap to buy two subbed+HMO S2 boxes when I have a perfectly good 120GB S1 box already on the network).

Thanks,
--Steve

mavrcksd
09-09-2003, 09:44 AM
I have three S1's and they all work perfectly.

2 of them are subscriber models, and one is not.

The one that is not, is more of my storage tivo than anything.

I am working on guide data though.

I'm not sure about the nags, but since the OHM app runs in a different area outside of it, myworld actually thinks that it's suspended, so I think it should work alright.

cwingert
09-09-2003, 04:40 PM
New version is up at the website.

Fixes some minor bugs, check the README

FYI - I have found that OHM is REALLY unresponsive (from remote control perspective) while recording a BEST quality stream.

sanderton
09-10-2003, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by cwingert

FYI - I have found that OHM is REALLY unresponsive (from remote control perspective) while recording a BEST quality stream.

D'oh - another possible solution to my two-TiVo programme sharing needs bites the dust then, as all my recording is at Best. :(

dialanothernumb
09-10-2003, 11:41 AM
But isn't the problem related to when the tivo is recording, not necessarily on playback of best streams? In which case you'd be okay

Sanderson, I'm following your thread on TC about UK settings for best quality. thanks for getting that discussion going!

sanderton
09-10-2003, 11:50 AM
My TiVos are pretty much constantly recording (300 SPs between them!)

burriko
09-10-2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by sanderton
My TiVos are pretty much constantly recording (300 SPs between them!)

but TiVos never actually stop recording anyway, so it will be constantly recording no matter how many recordings you have scheduled.

sanderton
09-10-2003, 12:02 PM
Good point. And as the Live TV buffer is at Best that makes me question what cwingert meant?

el jefe
09-10-2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by burriko
but TiVos never actually stop recording anyway, so it will be constantly recording no matter how many recordings you have scheduled.

...and unless they're recording something else, they're always recording the buffer at Best quality

cwingert
09-10-2003, 06:20 PM
I don't think the TiVo is always recording. I think in standby mode, it is not doing LiveTV.

Standby is the mode in which OHM runs.

sirfergy
09-10-2003, 06:23 PM
Correct, in standby mode it does squat unless it needs to do a recording.

So any ETA on a public beta?

sanderton
09-11-2003, 04:26 AM
My TiVo records in standby mode - when you flip it on the 30 minute buffer is there.

It doesn't play back in stand by mode.

TheWickedPriest
09-11-2003, 05:57 AM
My DirecTivo does not record in standby mode. The 30-minute buffer is retained, so you can still rewind when turn the Tivo back on; but the buffer is not added to while in standby.

I've heard it suggested that this is a SA/DirecTivo difference, but I don't have a SA unit to check.

burriko
09-11-2003, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by sanderton
My TiVo records in standby mode - when you flip it on the 30 minute buffer is there.

same here.

sanderton
09-11-2003, 06:43 AM
Does this mean that this software is effectively going to be unusable on a SA TiVo, which is constantly recording at Best even in stand by? :(

mavrcksd
09-11-2003, 09:04 AM
Well:

While I have been testing this software for cwingert, I had forgotten that there was a recording going on, and I was watching a movie from my other tivo, and when I got back to it - it was recording a todo item.

It's working really well on the tivo to tivo stuff.

Mav

bfdhe
09-11-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by mavrcksd
Well:

It's working really well on the tivo to tivo stuff.

Mav

Yeah.... Tease us some more......:mad: :D

Sure would like to test that tomorrow while I am off on a "slack day". Too bad there isn't a beta....Or is there?

Generiq
09-12-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by TheWickedPriest
The 30-minute buffer is retained, so you can still rewind when turn the Tivo back on; but the buffer is not added to while in standby.

Don't those two lines contradict each other? If the buffer is not added to, what are you rewinding?

BubbleLamp
09-12-2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Generiq
Don't those two lines contradict each other? If the buffer is not added to, what are you rewinding?

You are rewinding within the 30 min. PRIOR to when you put it in standby mode.

compwiz312
09-12-2003, 04:40 PM
so, any idea on when a beta or alpha (available to all) will be available?

sanderton
09-12-2003, 05:16 PM
If we keep asking, maybe he'll give in. :)

dabbler
09-15-2003, 01:33 PM
Is the slideshow in MHO just a repackaging of Jake's slideshow or is it something else?

mavrcksd
09-15-2003, 03:56 PM
I dont know of jake's slideshow program (to do slideshows)

the OHM project, uses JPEGwriter as found on jake's website to produce the image onscreen.

the OHM project looks to a folder that has JPG's and you choose what you want and it displays them for you onscreen.
MAV

dabbler
09-15-2003, 04:05 PM
Jake's slideshow is found at http://www.allaboutjake.com/tivo/slideshow.html. It seems to be based on his jpegwriter program.

BeauB
09-24-2003, 12:10 AM
^^^bump-beta-bump-beta-bump^^^

tabascojrc
09-24-2003, 01:55 AM
i tried the website and it asked for a password, is it still in alpha testing? Is the site restricted to testers?

dialanothernumb
09-24-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by tabascojrc
i tried the website and it asked for a password, is it still in alpha testing? Is the site restricted to testers?

Yup

BeauB
09-27-2003, 08:35 PM
Any ETA on beta?? Last beg, I promise ;)

bfdhe
09-28-2003, 03:39 PM
I am begining to wonder if this "HMO for Series 1 TiVo" is just Vaporware.

Cmon guys... Let us play..... It's not nice to hog the ball...

lart2150
09-28-2003, 09:48 PM
HMO does a lot and a lot could go wrong. what happnes if there is a small bug that removes / on all dtivos? but I think as of late there might have been a slow down on progress but rember he's not getting money for this so if something comes up for him this goes on the back burrner.

mavrcksd
09-29-2003, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by bfdhe
I am begining to wonder if this "HMO for Series 1 TiVo" is just Vaporware.

Cmon guys... Let us play..... It's not nice to hog the ball...

I should let him know to change the title :)

Anyway, I have been testing the software for him, and it is definately not vaporware.

I know from looking at the other threads, and some of the software that others have released, well - there is a lot of support invovled. The influx of releasing this and supporting all "howto" questions is overwhelming, and also the legality of the HMO for series 2 - and how it may conflict.

"Sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride"..... Tivo Airways!

my $.02
MAVSD

dialanothernumb
09-29-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by mavrcksd
I should let him know to change the title :)

Anyway, I have been testing the software for him, and it is definately not vaporware.

I know from looking at the other threads, and some of the software that others have released, well - there is a lot of support invovled. The influx of releasing this and supporting all "howto" questions is overwhelming, and also the legality of the HMO for series 2 - and how it may conflict.

"Sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride"..... Tivo Airways!

my $.02
MAVSD

This helps keep things in perspective, as well as the other post mentioning life outside of this project for the author.

On the legality point, I kind of assumed that TiVo would overlook this work on the S1, given TiVo don't seem to be doing any more on these boxes. For those of us in the UK, this seems particularly true! Hopefully (and a bit like the work done for CDN and AUS Tivo users) TiVo woill look benignly on this approach and not try to make things difficult.

sanderton
09-29-2003, 11:06 AM
cwingert can release (or not) the software in his own sweet time, but it might be nice for him to know that there are some of us out here who are REALLY looking forward to seeing this working on our TiVos!

cwingert
09-29-2003, 02:07 PM
Just FYI.

The code is ready for a beta. I have been using it pretty heavily for the last six weeks. I haven't seen a TiVo crash in about 3 months. In the last few weeks I have thought of some cool features, but haven't had time to implement them.

The hold up for the beta has nothing to do with development, it is truely a legal issue. I have been in contact with a security developer at TiVo. I am looking for some sort of gold seal that Tridge got for vplay. He expressed an opinion that TiVo would not mind, but I asked him to speak to TiVo's laywers to be sure.

The long and the short is that HMO is a revenue generating stream for TiVo and I am not sticking my neck out for any of you (sorry).

In the end in may truely be vaporware, if TiVo gives the opinion that they do care. I am still waiting for that person to meet with the legal team at TiVo, my last contact with him was 12 days ago via e-mail.

However, if they are OK with the release. I'll be sure to make it an EveryOneButBfdhe-Beta release.

Thank you for your support (or lack there of).

bfdhe
09-29-2003, 02:47 PM
Ha!

I guess I will have to use my other registered ID to get it!:D

cwingert
09-29-2003, 02:50 PM
Ha!

Maybe I won't release it at all.



Originally posted by bfdhe
Ha!

I guess I will have to use my other registered ID to get it!:D

bfdhe
09-29-2003, 02:55 PM
That is completely up to you. I am only trying to have a little fun.

The other tools we use now to extract and move files work, but your description of this HMO sounded like it would be much better.

Don't be so sensitive. I was only trying to find out the status by provoking a response.

sirfergy
09-29-2003, 02:56 PM
I think he was also joking. It's hard to get intent from text. :)

cwingert
09-29-2003, 02:59 PM
There are better ways to solicit status.

And when you work on an open source project call me, we'll talk. There is a reason that lots of *great* developers have come and gone because of whiners.

No offense.



Originally posted by bfdhe
That is completely up to you. I am only trying to have a little fun.

The other tools we use now to extract and move files work, but your description of this HMO sounded like it would be much better.

Don't be so sensitive. I was only trying to find out the status by provoking a response.

sanderton
09-29-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by cwingert
The hold up for the beta has nothing to do with development, it is truely a legal issue. I have been in contact with a security developer at TiVo. I am looking for some sort of gold seal that Tridge got for vplay. He expressed an opinion that TiVo would not mind, but I asked him to speak to TiVo's laywers to be sure.

The long and the short is that HMO is a revenue generating stream for TiVo and I am not sticking my neck out for any of you (sorry).


That would be a shame, although I can understand it. Obviously over here in the UK HMO for S1 is even less likly as a TiVo option than it is over there!

Can you make it in such a way as it couldn't be adapted for S2, or have you already done that?

Generiq
09-29-2003, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by cwingert
He expressed an opinion that TiVo would not mind, but I asked him to speak to TiVo's laywers to be sure.

Just curious - do you mean the Tivo security developer?

cwingert
09-29-2003, 04:48 PM
A developer at TiVo that is responsible for "Privacy and Security"



Originally posted by Generiq
Just curious - do you mean the Tivo security developer?

gart
09-29-2003, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by sanderton
That would be a shame, although I can understand it. Obviously over here in the UK HMO for S1 is even less likly as a TiVo option than it is over there!

Can you make it in such a way as it couldn't be adapted for S2, or have you already done that?


I'd hope that the people that can subscribe to the HMO would. I know I would if they EVER release it for the s1's.

Plus, isn't it rather difficult to get external software working on S2s still?

lart2150
09-29-2003, 06:16 PM
it's nice to know why the program has not seen a lot of updates. it would be nice to see a public copy soon but we don't want you to have any problms with the law/tivo.

burriko
09-29-2003, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by cwingert
However, if they are OK with the release. I'll be sure to make it an EveryOneButBfdhe-Beta release.

:D lol
tbh, i'm a little tired of seeing new posts in this thread only to find that it is people begging for a release. some people need to find a little patience, and to realise that begging isn't going to speed up development. I know that this is repeated a lot but, give the developers a break, they're the people who're doing all of the work, and your whining isn't going to give them any encouragement.


Originally posted by cwingert
The hold up for the beta has nothing to do with development, it is truely a legal issue. I have been in contact with a security developer at TiVo. I am looking for some sort of gold seal that Tridge got for vplay. He expressed an opinion that TiVo would not mind, but I asked him to speak to TiVo's laywers to be sure.

The long and the short is that HMO is a revenue generating stream for TiVo and I am not sticking my neck out for any of you (sorry).

IMHO, if a company has to even think about the legal issues of an open source software development which will not only not make them any profit but perhaps infringe on a revenue stream of theirs, then they will just say no. but hopefully the guys at TiVo aren't as cynical as i am :p

Will
09-29-2003, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by cwingert
The hold up for the beta has nothing to do with development, it is truely a legal issue. I have been in contact with a security developer at TiVo. I am looking for some sort of gold seal that Tridge got for vplay. He expressed an opinion that TiVo would not mind, but I asked him to speak to TiVo's laywers to be sure.

I think any Tivo lawyer even hinting at approval would be dead meat inside 10 seconds. The very best to be hoped for would be benificent silence. But having forced the issue, it would seem to be demanding a negative.

Good luck, sincerely, despite my pessimism; it sounded like a potentially interesting project.

cwingert
09-29-2003, 11:55 PM
Approval is not what I am looking for.

The gist is to inform TiVo that I am thinking of introducing free software that mimic's some of the revenue generating HMO functionality (for S2).

I want to be sure that TiVo is not interested in this market (at least on the S1).



Originally posted by Will
I think any Tivo lawyer even hinting at approval would be dead meat inside 10 seconds. The very best to be hoped for would be benificent silence. But having forced the issue, it would seem to be demanding a negative.

Good luck, sincerely, despite my pessimism; it sounded like a potentially interesting project.

BubbleLamp
09-30-2003, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by cwingert
Approval is not what I am looking for.

The gist is to inform TiVo that I am thinking of introducing free software that mimic's some of the revenue generating HMO functionality (for S2).

I want to be sure that TiVo is not interested in this market (at least on the S1).

I'd think they'd either

1) Buy it and then use it to add to their revenues.
or
2) Buy it to bury it.
or
3) Threaten you so you kill it.

While they have/had been turning a blind eye to some of the goings on for the past few years, I find it nearly impossible to believe they'll just say, "sure, you can have the S1 HMO market".

mattdb
09-30-2003, 09:42 AM
Not being an alpha tester but a very amateur hacker, I would say that the majority of TiVo owners wouldn't have a clue on how to do this. That being said, TiVo will more than likely never introduce this because on a S1 you have to have a network card installed and that would not be cost effective for TiVo to implement.

Now if cwingert was introducing his software to run on a S2, that would be a different ballgame all together....

Mattman

AlphaWolf
09-30-2003, 11:34 AM
Well, its always possible that tivo could sell an "ethernet upgrade" for s1 units, much like they sell hard disk upgrades.

sirfergy
09-30-2003, 12:09 PM
TiVo sells HD upgrades for S1 TiVos? I'd prefer they do it then some random joe schmoe on the street. Where did you see this?

MuscleNerd
09-30-2003, 04:30 PM
Not that he was speaking for his company or anything, but when TiVoPony touched upon this subject on AVS, his response was pretty much to shrug this project off. Because it required tivoapp to be shutdown/put in standby during any transfers (is that so?), he didn't think it was something that most people would want to use.

AlphaWolf
09-30-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by sirfergy
TiVo sells HD upgrades for S1 TiVos? I'd prefer they do it then some random joe schmoe on the street. Where did you see this?

They've always done it, just they charge up the ass for it. If the tivos hard disk capacity was never meant to be upgraded, then they probably wouldn't have given tivoapp the ability to detect and expand new partitions.

el jefe
09-30-2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by AlphaWolf
They've always done it, just they charge up the ass for it. If the tivos hard disk capacity was never meant to be upgraded, then they probably wouldn't have given tivoapp the ability to detect and expand new partitions.

I don't think they do upgrades, or if they do they are trying to keep it a secret. From the TiVo website (http://customersupport.tivo.com/tivoknowbase/root/public/tv1006.htm?):


Q: Can I Upgrade the Recording Capacity of My TiVo Digital Video Recorder?

A: Unfortunately, there is no TiVo authorized recording capacity upgrade available for the TiVo DVR at this time.

cwingert
09-30-2003, 05:28 PM
I was thinking of talking to TiVoPony.

Was the subject of this application specifically brought up? Or was it a generic conversation? Have a thread pointer?

It does work in only in standby (but tivoapp does not get shutdown), but I am not sure why that it is a big deal. It still records the ToDo list (just not LiveTV). I used to have it working in non-standby mode, but it was VERY kludgey.

Like I said any pointers to the conversation would be appreciated.


Originally posted by MuscleNerd
Not that he was speaking for his company or anything, but when TiVoPony touched upon this subject on AVS, his response was pretty much to shrug this project off. Because it required tivoapp to be shutdown/put in standby during any transfers (is that so?), he didn't think it was something that most people would want to use.

MuscleNerd
09-30-2003, 05:48 PM
His post is here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1316960#post1316960)

AlphaWolf
10-02-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by el jefe
I don't think they do upgrades, or if they do they are trying to keep it a secret. From the TiVo website (http://customersupport.tivo.com/tivoknowbase/root/public/tv1006.htm?):

Hmm...they must have stopped then. I distinctly remember them doing it though, they used to charge like $200 for a 40 hour upgrade.

philhu
10-07-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by AlphaWolf
Hmm...they must have stopped then. I distinctly remember them doing it though, they used to charge like $200 for a 40 hour upgrade.

they did do upgrades. 2 yrs ago. Series 1 standalones only

compwiz312
10-12-2003, 12:30 AM
Any status update?!?!?

philhu
10-17-2003, 09:19 AM
Bump....

Any status??

philhu
10-20-2003, 07:11 PM
hello???

Generiq
10-21-2003, 06:44 PM
Status is clearly the same as when the author updated it here. The stuff is ready for Beta, but unless he gets some kind of OK from someone at Tivo (so he is covered) - it will never see the light of day. He hasn't said it's dead, and he hasn't released a Beta.

milhouse
10-23-2003, 03:32 PM
Instead of waiting for a blessing from Tivo to release it. Tell them you WILL release it in a week unless they tell you not to. That should at least get them to reply quickly.

With every thing we are doing with the series 1 units, I can't imagine them see HMO as lost revenue opportinities. If we wanted a series 2 we would buy one. The fact is we don't want a series 2, we want to mess with the one we have. If they don't plan in any more improvments for the series 1 units. I'd say that it is open season.

That's my 2 cents....

Milhouse

philhu
10-23-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by milhouse
Instead of waiting for a blessing from Tivo to release it. Tell them you WILL release it in a week unless they tell you not to. That should at least get them to reply quickly.

With every thing we are doing with the series 1 units, I can't imagine them see HMO as lost revenue opportinities. If we wanted a series 2 we would buy one. The fact is we don't want a series 2, we want to mess with the one we have. If they don't plan in any more improvments for the series 1 units. I'd say that it is open season.

That's my 2 cents....

Milhouse

And, on top of that, tivo has talked in the other forums saysing theat addons like hmo for series 1 are fine, not in exact words, but if you read what was linked above, they say they are washing their hands of series 1 stuff.

][ronMan
10-28-2003, 04:30 PM
I think TivoPony gives the unofficial seal of approval in that other thread. :) I'd love to get my hands on this... C'mon... ;)

Derek

AlphaWolf
10-28-2003, 07:23 PM
Keep in mind that these arguments are easy to say when it isn't your ass that is on the line.

rc3105
10-28-2003, 07:55 PM
it's not tivopony you that needs to ok it, it's tivo's lawyers

since "David Bought" can't even parody David Bott's image in his avatar here because of tivo's lawyers ( so much for the 1st amendment huh? ) I wouldn't hold my breath...

BubbleLamp
10-28-2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by rc3105
since "David Bought" can't even parody David Bott's image in his avatar here because of tivo's lawyers ( so much for the 1st amendment huh? ) I wouldn't hold my breath...

Tivo's lawyers, or David Bott's lawyers?

rc3105
10-28-2003, 09:07 PM
bought's sig used to say he'd been censored by tivo's lawyers. guess we'd have to ask bought & vadim for the full story

newlooper
10-30-2003, 07:46 AM
There are some very good arguments in this thread. I guess my question would be, How would they easily implement this in a series 1. Since they have never even made mention of offering networking capabilities on it, how would they offer HMO? I'm not saying that I would want to take a chance either but think about it. Has anyone here ever heard them make mention of newtworking on a S1?

Just a few thoughts...:rolleyes:

BeauB
10-30-2003, 02:58 PM
If there are any kind, generous alpha testers out there that want to share, please PM me (anonymously) if you can hook me up (I could set you up an anonymous ftp site to send it to me).

Very anxious to check things out and it seems as though this is going to be sat on indefinitely...

Generiq
10-30-2003, 03:11 PM
Dude, that is just plain lame! If the author doesn't want it out - you don't get it. Buy some S2s and pay for it if you want it so much or write it yourself!! Sure, I'd love to try it out (along with many here), but the GUY WHO WROTE IT DOESN"T WANT IT RELEASED [YET], and I'm sure nobody testing for cwingert is going to hook up someone pulling such a slimy move.

Generiq
10-30-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by newlooper
Has anyone here ever heard them make mention of newtworking on a S1?

Just a few thoughts...:rolleyes:

If I'm not mistaken (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am), they allowed daily calls over the net before the S2s were out, so that sounds like networking to me.

BubbleLamp
10-30-2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Generiq
If I'm not mistaken (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am), they allowed daily calls over the net before the S2s were out, so that sounds like networking to me.

While it's true they added an unsupported method to allow an S1 to connect, I don't think they'd consider a Turbonet as a user-installable upgrade. These boxes weren't designed to be opened by end users.

wzl
10-31-2003, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by BubbleLamp
While it's true they added an unsupported method to allow an S1 to connect, I don't think they'd consider a Turbonet as a user-installable upgrade. These boxes weren't designed to be opened by end users.


Agreed. I nearly sliced off a finger on the raw edges on the inside... haha

Spod
10-31-2003, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by Generiq
If I'm not mistaken (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am), they allowed daily calls over the net before the S2s were out, so that sounds like networking to me.

This isn't quite the case. The updates on a S1 are still recieved via the Internet, the modem dials into a UUNET POP and negotiates a standard PPP connection to the net. It then connects to the TiVo servers on the net and after an authentication routine pulls down the updates. TiVoNET ( and later TurboNET ) merely remove the dial-up portion of the update process, everthing else is the same. There is no easy way ( apart from blocking all non UUNET IP addresses ) to stop this process via any other net connection.

I would not read *anything* into the fact that network connections are possible on a S1 with regards to TiVo condoning the practice.

As far as further S1 development is concerned it seems to me that they are now pretty much off of TiVo's balance sheet, and they have no further interest in touching them ( apart from providing chargeable guide updates. ) This goes doubly so for the UK market.

Rgds,

R.

DocTauri
10-31-2003, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Generiq
Buy some S2s and pay for it if you want it so much
But of course, this doesn't apply if you're using DirecTivo.

Generiq
10-31-2003, 07:37 AM
I did not mean to imply S1 networking was mainstream, just that Tivo has worked with the network connections on the S1's before S2's were ever available. I was just answering the question "Has anyone here ever heard them make mention of newtworking on a S1?"

Generiq
10-31-2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by DocTauri
But of course, this doesn't apply if you're using DirecTivo.

Yes, good point.

Buy some SA S2s and pay for it if you want it so much. :D

yotta
11-02-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Spod
I would not read *anything* into the fact that network connections are possible on a S1 with regards to TiVo condoning the practice

Ever seen this? It's from /etc/rc.d/rc.arch on my 3.0 Series 1 SA



function detectDynamicNet () {
# Don't load dynamic driver if the kernel found one already
if grep -q eth0 /proc/net/dev ; then
echo "Ethernet device already present"
return 1
fi
# Invoke the honored name of Tridge, patron of Nets, Streams, and All Reverse Engineers
echo "Loading 8390 driver"
/sbin/insmod /lib/modules/8390tridge.o
# Wave rod
echo "Probing for Ethernet card"
if /sbin/insmod /lib/modules/tivone.o ; then
# A crystalline bridge now spans the fissure.
echo "Card found"
export DYNAMIC_NET_DEV=eth0
return 0
fi
# Nothing happens.
/sbin/rmmod 8390tridge
# Look for a Jafa card
if /sbin/insmod /lib/modules/ax88796.o macaddr=$SerialNumber ; then
echo "Card found"
export DYNAMIC_NET_DEV=eth0
return 0
fi
echo "No card found"
return 1
}

mrblack51
11-02-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by yotta
Ever seen this? It's from /etc/rc.d/rc.arch on my 3.0 Series 1 SA



yup, thats the code that lets you use your turbonet to dial out (via ,#401). its normal

rbird
11-02-2003, 11:32 PM
I believe he's trying to make the point that Tivo DOES condone (if not support) networking on S1 units.

Bob

wkozun
11-03-2003, 02:29 PM
I believe he's trying to make the point that Tivo DOES condone (if not support) networking on S1 units.

Not just condone, they HONOR Tridge, recently honoured (note correct British Empire spelling) as the smartest person in Australia.

dialanothernumb
11-03-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by wkozun
Not just condone, they HONOR Tridge, recently honoured (note correct British Empire spelling) as the smartest person in Australia.

That's a bit unkind!:D ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist. After all the Aussies beat us by one lousy point in Rugby at the weekend

newlooper
11-03-2003, 06:08 PM
I think BubbleLamp is the only one that understood my post. This is the bottom line.

Tivo has never offered a network upgrade for a series 1. Whether they were kind enough to add code for the phone-home portion (there modems suck!:eek: I have repaired many. This probably saved a lot on warranty costs. People used the Inet instead of sending their units back to Tivo for repair.) they have never offered an upgrade.

BubbleLamp
11-03-2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by wkozun
Not just condone, they HONOR Tridge, recently honoured (note correct British Empire spelling) as the smartest person in Australia.

Somehow I doubt it was TIVO that honoured him. :rolleyes:

milhouse
11-03-2003, 07:04 PM
It seems strange that the fixup script was released but HMO is not. If the code was "leaked" somehow and became open source, it would be difficult to target one specific person.

Anyway, TIVO must now that we are not goint to trash our series 1 units to buy new Series 2 units to gain HMO.

Half to fun is getting it working. They should just be happy that we are willing to buy all the old hardware so that others are more able to purchase the NEW units.

Milhouse.

rc3105
11-04-2003, 12:48 AM
there's allready plenty of gpl code available to roll your own hmo. (search for playitsam)

it's cwingert's polish that makes it accessable to mere mortals, a threat to tivo's potential hmo revenue & him into a target


--
Riley

marvin_pa
11-05-2003, 03:34 AM
Not just condone, they HONOR Tridge, recently honoured (note correct British Empire spelling) as the smartest person in Australia.

I thought that was Paul Hogan or perhaps the Croc Hunter - Steve Irwin ;-)

Are Tivo only able to enforce their patents etc in the countries that they operate ? i.e. USA and UK ?

If so then perhaps the Canadian and Aussies can get access to the HMO for the S1's ...?

Just a thought ......

AlphaWolf
11-06-2003, 04:00 PM
Hey cwingert, I had an idea for something else that could be integrated into this OHM project if you are still developing it: A faster directv grid.

My idea is basically to cache the guide data from the MFS database directly to the ext2 partition nightly, where it can be accessed without having to invoke tivoapp or tivosh by a faster tivoapp independent guide program.

richyclarke
11-12-2003, 09:29 AM
I love the reference to.. 'a crystaline bridge now spans the fissure'

Takes me back to the late 1970s Text based games.

If you want to feel nostalgic you can play the old 'Adventure' game online at..

http://www.ifiction.org/games/play.php?game=1&mode=html

You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and down a gully......

Generiq
11-12-2003, 10:21 AM
Huh?

Dibblah
11-12-2003, 11:04 AM
Just a guess...

Tivo reference (http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:2WJMPW-5e6wJ:www.tivohelp.com/archive/tivohelp.swiki.net/64.html+%22%27a+crystalline+bridge+now+spans+the+fissure%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

Original source (http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:8_yJ3pyOUzMJ:members.optusnet.com.au/dmillard/Solutions/A/Adventure%2520550%2520(ddd).rtf+%22%27a+crystalline+bridge+now+spans+the+fissure%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

Although how it relates to this thread, I have no idea.

Cheers,

Allan.

richyclarke
11-12-2003, 12:09 PM
The reference is in the code snippet..

# Invoke the honored name of Tridge, patron of Nets, Streams, and All Reverse Engineers
echo "Loading 8390 driver"
/sbin/insmod /lib/modules/8390tridge.o
# Wave rod
echo "Probing for Ethernet card"
if /sbin/insmod /lib/modules/tivone.o ; then
# A crystalline bridge now spans the fissure.
echo "Card found"
export DYNAMIC_NET_DEV=eth0
return 0
fi

Just after the insmod check for tivone.o.

A reference to the fact that the fissure (connection to the network) has now been Spanned by a crystalline bridge (network card found).


It's an old 1970s era text based adventure game - I guess you're not as old as me!!!
;)

wkozun
11-12-2003, 12:19 PM
I must be as old as I remember playing this on a Commodore Pet in about 1980-81. There was also a pirate version that was way cool!

The other big game of that era was the Star Trek game where this may bring back memories:

*** *** *** *** ***
*** 312 101 203 ***
*** 000 XXX 813 ***
*** 111 204 300 ***
*** *** *** *** ***

If all else failed there was the self-destruct option.

Then Space Invaders came along and that was the end of text based games although I do remember a Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy text game on the C-64 that was pretty good.

milhouse
11-12-2003, 12:31 PM
It is quite amazing how the conversation can wonder...

What is the latest "Official" status on HMO. Has Tivo responded at all?

Thanks,

Milhouse.

dialanothernumb
11-12-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by milhouse
It is quite amazing how the conversation can wonder...


Forum equivalent of tumbleweed...

richyclarke
11-12-2003, 03:17 PM
OK,
I am interested in this thread (which is why i am reading it) so to get this back on topic (sorry about the diversion!), if the Series 1 processor is not able to do a reasonable, reliable job of MP3 playing etc. as per HMO on series 2 and DTivos, does anybody know if it is possible to get the Tivo to act as an MP3 Streaming server, something like Shoutcast or Icecast?

I know there are streaming servers available for Linux, but many are perl or Java based - I guess this rules them out.

The reason I ask is that I have an Exstreamer (www.exstreamer.com) and would like to use the Tivo as a file store and streamer.

The Exstreamer costs just over 100 UK pounds and would basically do the job of the MP3 decoding and D to A, thus taking the load off the Tivo. Most of these streaming servers have built in web servers, although I would imagine a TivoWeb module could be used just as well.

Any thoughts??
Rich

jodell
11-25-2003, 01:51 AM
Cwingert,

Any word from Tivo if they will sanction the release of your non-competing product (OHM)?

Jeff

cspot
11-25-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by jodell
Cwingert,

Any word from Tivo if they will sanction the release of your non-competing product (OHM)?

Jeff

I wonder if the 'dead' SourceForge link for the alpha/beta testers is any indication of the status? Hope not!

toddcurry
12-11-2003, 05:16 PM
<explicit bump>

<hopeful bump>

<respectful bump>

sirfergy
12-18-2003, 07:07 PM
Any chance this will be released? I've recently come into some money and would love to buy a second tivo to use with this.

shawjo
12-18-2003, 07:59 PM
I Know this may sound crazy, BUT it's worth a try.

It seems that there are enough of us developers out there, Why don't we make a sourceforge project and make this project open source from the beginning? If there are enough developers working on this project, I'd think that TiVo would have a hard time doing anything about it if it were open source from the beginning.

Just my $0.02

-shawjo

cojonesdetoro
12-19-2003, 01:07 AM
Very few people want to form a project that will seriously piss off Tivo. I agree with them. Tivo has been a pretty good company in their tolerance of hackers.We should not create adversaries of companies like Tivo.

Generiq
12-19-2003, 01:43 AM
Very few people also think Tivo will care about the 'relatively small number of series one users with hacked ethernet cards' as mentioned in the thread from the other forum.

Either way, I guess this will never see the light of day. This was the main reason I snathced up an SA unit as it was my plan to put that in my daughters room. Oh well... it was a nice dream.

el jefe
12-19-2003, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by cojonesdetoro
Very few people want to form a project that will seriously piss off Tivo. I agree with them. Tivo has been a pretty good company in their tolerance of hackers.We should not create adversaries of companies like Tivo.

The thing is, we don't know if it will piss them off or not. The last I remember seeing is that cwingert was going to talk to them, but I didn't see any response as to what they said. They may have said not to release it, or it could be there were some bugs that are being worked on, he may just not feel like working on it anymore, or any number of reasons this isn't released yet. Without any update from the author, anything is just speculation.

rc3105
12-19-2003, 05:04 AM
using HMO in the description or title was probably a mistake. TiVo's lawyers would likely veto it for that alone

mplayer-tivo would be much more politically correct & probably more technically correct (near as I can tell w/o source)

code to playback ty from mfs, network mount or vserver isn't new. (that's what tridge wrote vserver for in the first place!) there's nothing stopping anyone else from rolling it all together & polishing as cwingert did

it'd be an incredible waste of time, but perhaps cwingert would be willing to share a few hints along the way ;)


Generiq:

you can install mfs_ftp on that sa for your daughter & use auto-ftp to keep it synced with your recording tivo :D

Generiq
12-19-2003, 08:47 AM
Yep... maybe Santa will bring me a new drive to up the SA capacity.

:D

shawjo
12-19-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by rc3105

it'd be an incredible waste of time, but perhaps cwingert would be willing to share a few hints along the way ;)



I Agree it would be a total waste of time, BUT I really want an application like this for my 3 S1 SA's. I don't want to get TiVo upset, BUT from what I can tell so far, they don't even want to think about making this for S1's, SO I think that writing one open source from the beginning, wouldn't upset them.

If I get enough helpers, I will start Open Source, If not, I'll just do it for myself.

-shawjo

rc3105
12-19-2003, 12:51 PM
let me clarify my earlier comment, should have said "duplication of effort" rather than "waste of time"

playitsam was posted last year, is GPL, & has most of the framework for hmo in place allready

why not just polish that up a bit?

shawjo
12-19-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by rc3105
let me clarify my earlier comment, should have said "duplication of effort" rather than "waste of time"

playitsam was posted last year, is GPL, & has most of the framework for hmo in place allready

why not just polish that up a bit?

I Agree, BUT without a release of OHM, I'm left to either doing without (which I'd rather not do) or "polish" it myself. That's why I'm asking if other programmers out there want to help.

Generiq
01-08-2004, 08:51 PM
I Agree, BUT without a release of OHM, I'm left to either doing without (which I'd rather not do) or "polish" it myself. That's why I'm asking if other programmers out there want to help.


Were you going ahead? I can't help you code, but I'd be glad to test if it helped.

:D

shawjo
01-10-2004, 05:05 PM
Were you going ahead? I can't help you code, but I'd be glad to test if it helped.

:D

Well, at the moment, I haven't received any other responses other than yours. As such, I'm thinking that I may just use it for myself and maybe a select few that decide they can help in one way or another, though at the moment, I'm having some issues in getting things working.

-Jonathan

jodell
01-10-2004, 10:42 PM
I can't code my way out of a wet paper bag but I can provide assistance testing. I have 3 Tivi of various flavors that are all networked and ready to go. Let me know how I can help.

Jeff

compwiz312
01-11-2004, 12:29 AM
Johnathan, unfortunetly, I can't really code either, but I can test out your work on any model series 1 receiver (I fix them, so I usually have at least one of each model on hand at any given time, SA or DTV), so let me know if I can help you, cause I really don't want to see this die.

Thanks,
Justin

hopefulboydy
01-13-2004, 09:25 PM
Generiq:

you can install mfs_ftp on that sa for your daughter & use auto-ftp to keep it synced with your recording tivo :D


RC3105, Can you elaborate on which auto-ftp software you mean and if it supports tivo to tivo transfers ?
thanks

rc3105
01-13-2004, 09:31 PM
a google search for "auto ftp" will turn up lots of stuff that works

http://www.primasoft.com/ftp.htm is one for windows. kinda klunky but that's just my opinion, try a few untill you find a comfortable interface

hopefulboydy
01-13-2004, 09:39 PM
..... but from your original post, it sounded like you knew how to automate tivo to tivo transfers using mfs_ftp and auto-ftp. Is this true, or do you have to auto ftp to a PC, then start a new auto-ftp to ftp to the second tivo ?

thanks

rc3105
01-13-2004, 10:01 PM
there are a dozen progs named auto-ftp, some can do scheduled fxp (tivo->tivo) transfers & some require a pc intermediary

check the help file for whichever one you end up using

TheBigDog
02-01-2004, 09:35 PM
i hope this project ain't dead..cuz' I can really see some good potential.

cspot
02-10-2004, 08:13 PM
I've got my 3rd one on the way, but I fear this project is long gone......maybe the final beta will slip out?

cwingert
02-10-2004, 08:36 PM
Probably in the next couple weeks I will have a Public Beta.

I need to soak test it with my good beta tester, I have added too many cool new features in the last month like :
-File Explorer Support
-PlayList Support
-Remote scheduling (ie Schedule a show on another TiVo from the current TiVo UI)
-Remote viewing of ToDo List
-Rewrite of the caching protocol for playing a tystream.

sirfergy
02-10-2004, 08:39 PM
Hooray! This means I can order my second TiVo!


Probably in the next couple weeks I will have a Public Beta.

I need to soak test it with my good beta tester, I have added too many cool new features in the last month like :
-File Explorer Support
-PlayList Support
-Remote scheduling (ie Schedule a show on another TiVo from the current TiVo UI)
-Remote viewing of ToDo List
-Rewrite of the caching protocol for playing a tystream.