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propman07
07-08-2003, 10:12 AM
Hello-

I recently installed a Tivonet card on my SAT-T60 so that I will not have to use the built in modem to make the daily "call". I have left the DTivo connected to the phone-line so that I can use elseed, to display caller id information on the TV. Everything has been working fine, until today. For some strange reason, the DTivo will not release the phone line. I tried to make a call from the bedroom (the DTivo in question is in the family room), and I didn't have a dial tone. I unplugged all of the phones, including DTivo's line, and that seemed to correct it. However, a few minutes later, the same thing happened.

Has anyone ever heard of something like this? The only changes that I made to the dialing options were to add the prefix to have DTivo use the Tivonet card to make the daily call. (Namely the ,#401 code)

Thanks in advance.

osetivo
07-08-2003, 03:37 PM
This happens to me as well, but not so fast. It took 19 days the last time for the phone line to remain off hook. I'm going to diasble elseed with the phone line in plugged in and just wait. The last time I did this, I went 2 weeks w/o problems before reactivating Elseed. (maybe I just didn't wait long enough)

In Hindsight, I think that I had a lot of static on the phone line about the same time as the Line Off Hook occurred. I live in an old house with old wiring, so I'm starting to suspect some electrical voodoo over the phone line. I think it rained at the time, which could indicate a short causing problems. Don't have phone line testing equipment :-(

I recall someone indicating there was a difference between a wireless phone jack and a wireless modem and to use the later (I could be crazy) and that this would help isolate the Tivo from electical problems over the phone line. Any truth to this?

Thoughts? TIA

propman07
07-08-2003, 03:52 PM
osetivo-

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like you are suggesting that it may be a problem with elseed. Do you think creating a cron job to restart it every 2-5 days would help? I also wanted to point out that the timeframe in my original message was incorrect. Using TivoWeb, I show 14 days uptime.

As to your suggestion about the wireless modem vs. a wireless phone jack, I don't know. A neighbor of mine used to work for the phone company, so I think that I will ask him, next time I see him.

I'm going to try to stop elseed, and create a cron job to restart it every few days to see if this helps.

Thanks again.

osetivo
07-08-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by propman07
It sounds like you are suggesting that it may be a problem with elseed.
I don't know if elseed is the problem. I tried to find out by disabling elseed with the phone line attached, followed by a hard reboot. I had no problem with TiVo seizing the phone line for 14 days. Sooo, I reactivated Esleed. 19 days later my TiVo sezied the phone line. So either Elseed is the culprit or my 14 day test period with Elseed disabled wasn't long enough for "whatever" to happen.

Do you think creating a cron job to restart it every 2-5 days would help? [/B]
Elseed has a separate file called elseedforever which will shut elseed down and restart after each call, but I still had off hook problems. So, no, I don't think restarting elseed via cron would do anything. But try it, who knows.

Originally posted by propman07
I also wanted to point out that the timeframe in my original message was incorrect. Using TivoWeb, I show 14 days uptime.
I wasn't talking about my TiVo's up time, I soft reboot fairly often. So I rarely have a substantial uptime.


Originally posted by propman07
However, a few minutes later, the same thing happened.

I interpreted this to mean that the TiVo seized control of the phone line within a few minutes of plugging it back into the TiVo? If so, do you have any idea what the TiVo was trying to do? make a call? caller-id? Both? I have never caught a line seizure so quickly, usually I just discover the phone off the hook in the morning.

How long was TiVo working "just fine" with TurboNet before yu had this problem?

What is your software version on the SAT T60? What version of Elseed do you have? (I have 0.60)

Sorry, lots of question, very few answers.

rgardjr
07-08-2003, 05:36 PM
I had the same problem with Elseed a while ago. It would eventually take over my phone line. I finally bit the bullet and did a fresh install using xplusz-well it was in conjunction with a turbonet install. I haven't had a problem with my phone being taken hostage since and callerid works great.

osetivo
07-08-2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by rgardjr
I had the same problem with Elseed a while ago. It would eventually take over my phone line. I finally bit the bullet and did a fresh install using xplusz-well it was in conjunction with a turbonet install. I haven't had a problem with my phone being taken hostage since and callerid works great.

I'm sure that I "should" go ahead and bite the bullet, but ugh, I don't like the prospect of re-learning it all.

propman07
07-09-2003, 12:48 AM
osetivo-

Thanks for the helpful info. Here are some answers to your questions.

I had my DTivo "seize" the phoneline moments after I re-connected it. I am running elseed ver 0.60. My Sony SAT-T60 is running ver 3.1.0-01-1-011. My DTivo was running elseed without issue for almost a month before I noticed this trouble. I intially did have difficulty getting elseed configured correctly. I tried to add the call for elseed in the rc.sysinit.author file, but I could not get it to work. I ended up adding it to the rc.sysinit file, at the very end. I am not using the "elseed forever" option.

I was able to talk to someone who knows more about the phone system than I do (which isn't saying much), and they told me that there may be a fluctuation in the line voltage which is tripping DTivo into "thinking" that someone is calling. It tries to pick up the line, to get the caller id information, but it just gets the dial tone, and gets stuck. He is going to check the line voltage to see if it does fluctuate, and if so, I will be adding a resistor to fix the problem. I'll keep you posted.




Originally posted by osetivo
I don't know if elseed is the problem. I tried to find out by disabling elseed with the phone line attached, followed by a hard reboot. I had no problem with TiVo seizing the phone line for 14 days. Sooo, I reactivated Esleed. 19 days later my TiVo sezied the phone line. So either Elseed is the culprit or my 14 day test period with Elseed disabled wasn't long enough for "whatever" to happen.

Elseed has a separate file called elseedforever which will shut elseed down and restart after each call, but I still had off hook problems. So, no, I don't think restarting elseed via cron would do anything. But try it, who knows.

I wasn't talking about my TiVo's up time, I soft reboot fairly often. So I rarely have a substantial uptime.


I interpreted this to mean that the TiVo seized control of the phone line within a few minutes of plugging it back into the TiVo? If so, do you have any idea what the TiVo was trying to do? make a call? caller-id? Both? I have never caught a line seizure so quickly, usually I just discover the phone off the hook in the morning.

How long was TiVo working "just fine" with TurboNet before yu had this problem?

What is your software version on the SAT T60? What version of Elseed do you have? (I have 0.60)

Sorry, lots of question, very few answers.

propman07
07-09-2003, 12:49 AM
rgardjr-

Thanks for the response. I am not familiar with xplusz, so I wouldn't know where to begin to install it. Are you saying that you installed the turbonet software fresh, or just the xplusz software (assuming that it is software)?

TIA


Originally posted by rgardjr
I had the same problem with Elseed a while ago. It would eventually take over my phone line. I finally bit the bullet and did a fresh install using xplusz-well it was in conjunction with a turbonet install. I haven't had a problem with my phone being taken hostage since and callerid works great.

rgardjr
07-09-2003, 01:54 PM
What I meant was that when I installed my turbonet card I did the xPlusz upgrade. To perform this upgrade I downloaded an iso file and burned it to cdr. After this I took the hard drive out of my Sony T60 and put it into my pc. The cdr that you make is bootable so you pop in the cdr and boot up the machine and launch the install script and answer the prompts. There is more information in this thread: http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21070
Its a pretty simple install, but you'll lose all of your recordings. Good Luck!

propman07
07-09-2003, 02:56 PM
rdardjr-

Thanks for the reply. I have been reading some of the threads on this board, and I think that my problem is that the DTivo is trying to call out. It looks like xPlusz comes with a nocall module that prevents the DTivo from making calls.

Thanks again.

rgardjr
07-09-2003, 03:19 PM
I don't have the no call enabled on my 2 t60s. They do make their calls home via the internet now though. Also, after refreshing my memory a bit I'm pretty sure on one of my machines I was able to install xPlusz without losing all of my programs.

propman07
07-09-2003, 03:54 PM
rgardjr-

Thanks for the reply. I guess that I should have been more specific. My T60 receives the guide data using my TivoNet card through the internet. I believe that the phone connection is still required so that DTV can collect viewing habits. I know that you can call DTV and "opt out" from this data collection process. It's my understanding that xPlusz nophone module disables this feature, so the DTivo will not try to send viewing habits to DTV.

osetivo
07-10-2003, 10:41 AM
IIRC, DTV subscription verification (& probably the upload of logs as well) is over the Phone line so unless you use something like fixsub (which I don't) TiVo WILL still use the phone line to call home to verify subscriptions.

Typically, how often does Tivo verify your subscription. Does this call show up in TivoWeb ToDo list, If so as what entry? Tivo service data? Teleworld...?

propman07
07-10-2003, 11:01 AM
osetivo-

I had a feeling that it would still need the phone line to dial out to verify the subscription, send "viewing data", and order PPV events. I disabled elseed, but the DTivo still locked up my phone line, which leads me to believe that the problem is related to DTivo, and not elseed. I called DTV, and told them that I wanted to opt out of the anonymous data collection that they do through DTivo (yes, I hadn't done that yet). The thoughts behind this were as follows.

I was using the Tivonet card to get my updates via the internet. I thought that the data collection process, for whatever reason, could not use the Tivonet card. (I may be way off base here) I was using the ",#401" as a dialing prefix, and I think that when the modem tried to "dial" this, it got hung up. This being said, after I called DTV to opt out, I forced several daily calls, all of which completed successfully. I reconnected my DTivo to the phone line, and so far (knocking on wood) there have been no issues. I will probably reboot in a day or so, in order to re-start elseed again.

I haven't tried to order a PPV event since I installed my TivoNet card, so I am not sure if the dialing prefix is the cluprit.

As to your question about subscription verification, I do not know how often it is checked. I looked in the TivoWeb ToDo list, but I can't readily identify an item which would indicate where this is done. I also looked through the logs to see if I could find any clues there, but again, no luck. I remember reading a message on this board which, if memory serves, stated that the system information screen on DTivo may have an indication of your "opt out" status. I think that the message also mentioned that you may need to enable backdoor codes to see this, YMMV.

osetivo
07-10-2003, 11:18 AM
FYI: I'm following your thread over at AVS as well, so don't feel the need to double post on my account. I just am here more often so I post here.

EDIT: Not that I think it will help, I just did a fresh HD install. Just to clear the cobwebs from the last 9 months of tinkering.

propman07
07-10-2003, 01:40 PM
osetivo-

Thanks for the FYI. I think that I will be spending more time here as well.

Wow, a fresh install...I don't know if I am up for that yet. I'll think that I will see how things go after I try to restart elseed in a couple of days. I'll post here with my results.

propman07
07-11-2003, 09:23 AM
UPDATE

Well, I came home from work on 7/10/2003, and everything on my DTivo seemed to be okay. I had left it plugged into the phone line, but did not have elseed running. I went ahead and rebooted the DTivo, and left the phone line connected. By 11:00 the same evening, DTivo had once again, locked up the phone line. At this point, I think that I will try to locate a software "no phone" option to get elseed to work. If I don't have any luck, I'll try the adding of resistors as a second choice.

/UPDATE

osetivo
07-11-2003, 12:01 PM
propman07:

Of course, these symptoms could be a sign of a bad modem. IIRC, when I first had problems, I disabled elseed, removed the ,#401 dialing code, rebooted (important step) and did a forced daily call as a test, and left it alone for a while. Did not experience any problems, but I don't recall how long I tested this. (probably not long enough) I think this is when I started to suspect elseed.

Because you experience these lock ups much more frequently than me, you might give this a try. You might not have to wait very long. Do you have high incoming call volume? I don't.

What other hacks/software are you running?

Did you install the TurboNet Drivers? I originally did, but now I am using TiVo ver 3.1 default drivers modified for a static ip.

FYI: No problems YET with Elseed and ,#401 on my fresh HD install.

propman07
07-11-2003, 06:35 PM
osetivo-

Thanks for the tips. I don't think that it is a bad modem, because elseed did work a few times before the phone line got locked up. I may try your advice, and disable elseed, remove the ,#401, reboot, and force the daily call.

As far as call volume goes, I think that we get 3-5 a day.

The hacks / software that I am running are:

tivoweb
screensaver (VERY HANDY)
elseed

I installed the TivoNet drivers that came with the instructions for installing the TivoNet that I purchased from 9thtee. I am also using DHCP for a dynamic IP address.

Thanks again for the tips, and in case anyone else is having this problem, I'll post updates if things change.

osetivo
07-20-2003, 12:05 PM
Just checking to see if you're still having problems. 11 days and all is ok for me. (fingers crossed, although my Tivo does sporadically lock up the remote input)

propman07
07-21-2003, 09:41 AM
UPDATE

Here is where I stand as of 7/21/2003.

I updated my rc.sysinit so that it would not start elseed, and I re-booted my DTivo on 7/11/2003. I have also removed the dialing prefix (,#401) so that all updates will be done using the phone line, instead of the ethernet connection. Everything seemed to be going okay, so on 7/15/2003, I updated the rc.sysinit to start elseed on a reboot. I have not had any problems (knocking on wood) thus far, and if everything is still running smoothly by next week, I will enable the ethernet update dialing prefix.

I have not noticed the "remote input" lockup that you described, and I am kind of curious as to what you were referring to.

(BTW, I also called DTV and told them that I wanted to "opt out" of the data collection on 7/10/2003)

END UPDATE

osetivo
07-22-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by osetivo
...although my Tivo does sporadically lock up the remote input The DTiVo won't accept any control commands either from the front panel or the remote control. Video & audio play on just fine, but that's it. A reboot is required.

You can read about it here (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24451)

propman07
07-23-2003, 10:01 AM
Thanks for the info on the remote lockup issue. I have never experienced (knock on wood) that before, so I guess that I am lucky. I wonder if it could have something to do with the method that the unit is "upgraded"

I am still running elseed 0.6 without any issues thus far. I have not decided for sure if I am going to enable the ethernet option for the daily call. I am thinking that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

In reading your signature, it looks like you have your DTivo set up similar to the way that I have set up mine. I am off to do some investigating on the rc.arch file so that I can use a static IP address.

osetivo
07-24-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by propman07
I am off to do some investigating on the rc.arch file so that I can use a static IP address. Look here (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25774)

It was a very simple process, just be sure to remember that if you are using NON-STANDARD 3.1 drivers, then you must use the "-f" switch to force the drivers to load, otherwise you'll be pulling the drive to make the change manually.

Sounds a bit dramatic, but the static IP has changed my life. Oh the troubles with my Linksys.

ALPHAWOLF, thanks again and again...

Xaa
07-30-2003, 01:52 PM
Hey all,

I'm having the same problem but maybe it's worse? I installed Elseed and as soon as I ran it, the Dtivo seized the phone. Now it won't give it back. Elseed is no longer running at all, and even after reboots as soon as I plug it in it picks up the line again.

I disabled the ,#401 and rebooted as directed but I haven't been able to place the daily call because as soon as I plug the line in, it takes control and I get the "off the hook" symptoms.

I unplugged the entire Dtivo for a couple of hours to try and reset, but still no dice. Can anyone offer me some advice on how to get my phone line back from the Dtivo?

Xaa

osetivo
07-31-2003, 03:43 PM
I never had the problem happen as frequently as some (weeks apart), so I can't tell if it's fixed or not, but I have been 21 days without a phone line lockup. Go figure.

propman07
08-03-2003, 09:10 PM
The Dtivo phone lockup saga continues...

I added the ,#401 dialing prefix on Friday, 8/1/2003 so that my DTivo would use the internet to make the "daily call" It's Sunday, 8/3/2003, and I found out from the wife (who had been trying to call me all day) that apparently the phone line was busy. Guess who was at fault...yup, DTivo. I removed the dialing prefix, and so far, everything seems to be okay. This is weird, and I guess that I am a little surprised that not too many other people have this type of problem. My next test will be to measure the line voltage on the telephone line to see if I can find out anything there.

UPDATE (08:25 PM PST)

I thought that by removing the dialing prefix, it would solve my problem, as it has done in the past, but I just checked the line for dial tone, and I got nothing. I disconnected my DTivo from the phone line, and I got the dial tone back. I plugged in the phone line for DTivo, and within a matter of minutes, it was locked up again. Time for more troubleshooting, and I think that I will have to leave the DTivo off the phoneline for the time being. It looks like Xaa and I are now in the same boat.

END UPDATE

Xaa
08-04-2003, 04:58 AM
I hate to say it Propman but I thnk our boat is the bad modem boat :( I'll keep you posted on any progress I make, but my expectation is that I won't make any.

Xaa

propman07
08-04-2003, 09:27 AM
Xaa-

I was kind of thinking that might be the problem. Hopefully, I will be able to enable the ethernet method of obtaining guide data so that the DTivo will continue to function. I hope that the worst case scenario is that I would not be able to use elseed. I think that I am going to try another trick, and if it works, I'll post my fix.

Xaa
08-04-2003, 09:56 AM
I use YAC for caller ID now. If I had known about it first, I never would have used Elseed. I don't think Elseed caused any of this for me at least. I think it just helped me discover it.

My biggest fear is that I subscribe to the Sunday Ticket and without calling DTV I might get shit from them about it. If I do, I can get an external modem, or buy the repair kit from ElectricLegs.

Xaa

propman07
08-04-2003, 02:17 PM
Xaa-

The main reason that I was using elseed (with YAC) on the DTivo was

A) Display caller id info on the TV, when it was on
B) Display caller id info on my PC, when it was on

I don't mind running DTivo 24/7, but I didn't want to run my PC like that, even though they are both technically "computers"

You might be able to call DTV and tell them that your modem has failed. They should be able to work with you.

As far as the modem goes, I don't think that my soldering skills are up to replacing chips on the board, but that's just me.

Xaa
08-04-2003, 03:00 PM
I fear my soldering skills too!!

I always keep my PC on so YAC just makes the most sense for me. Elseed looks great and I know people are successful with that as well.

I'm just gonna wait and see with DTV. Maybe nothing will happen.

Xaa

propman07
08-04-2003, 03:19 PM
I am pretty sure that you can do PPV events via the web, but I don't know about the Sunday Ticket thing.

I know what you mean about YAC. I am going to miss it on my PC. I was thinking about leaving the PC on all of the time, and then I remembered why I didn't do this first.

I didn't put a modem in the PC when I built it, since I am using cable modem. Damn!

osetivo
08-07-2003, 11:57 PM
Wife informed me that TiVo grabbed my phone line again. Oh well, at least for me it's not that often.

EDIT: It's been nearly a month without troubles

propman07
08-08-2003, 09:30 AM
osetivo-

Sorry to hear that Tivo is once again trying to claim the phone line. I may have a solution, or I should say that I tried something that others have had some luck with.

I purchased a two line phone block (with screw terminals inside), and 8 1.5k ohm resistors. I soldered two of the resistors together, and attached them to each of the screw terminal pairs. I plugged my DTivo into one of the female RJ11 jacks, plugged a patch phone cord (two male RJ11 jacks on either ends of a piece of phone line) into the remaining female RJ11 jack, and finally connected the male end of the patch cord to my phone jack. (If that makes sense) This basically puts a 3000 ohm resistance across each of the four wires inside the phone line.

Results: Elseed (with Yac support) can receive incoming calls, but the DTivo cannot grab the phone line.

Total cost (less labor): < $10

I can post photos, if you like, just let me know.

Here is where I got most of my information from:

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12183&perpage=15&highlight=250V&pagenumber=12

Resistors that I used were 1.5k ohms, 1/2 watt. I had some 3.3k ohm resistors, but since I was planning on placing them in a closed container, I was a little concerned about heat build up.

I have been using this setup for three days now, and DTivo has yet to take control of the phone line. If my math is correct (I'm not a EE, but my Dad is) there is no way that DTivo will ever be able to make an outbound call. Elseed has worked every time since I installed my "magic" box.

If you are using the ,#401 as your dialing prefix (in order to get updates via the internet), this fix should do the trick.

I hope that this helps.

osetivo
08-08-2003, 03:20 PM
Are you using the nophone hack, because TiVo still needs to use the phone line to verify subscription data or else you will end up with the "TiVo hasn't made a call in X days, blah blah blah" screen nag.

propman07
08-09-2003, 01:29 AM
osetivo-

To answer your question, no, I am not currently using the nophone hack. I purchased a lifetime subscription (when it was available) for my SAT-T60. I also pay a monthly subscription to DTV. I have a mirrored DSR-6000 in our bedroom upstairs, but that does not have a lifetime subscription, as it is mirroring the SAT-T60's subscription.

I was under the impression that the ,#401 code enable the DTivo to "make it's call" using the internet. I thought that I remember reading somewhere that the DTivos get their updates via the sat feed, but I could be mistaken.

I just checked both DTivos, and under the System Information screen, they both show that the account is in good standing. I might be in luck, because the DSR-6000 is still connected to the phone line, and is able to dial out when it needs to. I have not installed a Turbonet in it, yet.

I am curious to your thoughts (or anyone else's) on my setup. I still can't believe that more people aren't having the same problem. Maybe they are, and maybe they are using the nophone hack to get around the issue.

propman07
09-11-2003, 03:06 PM
osetivo-

I was wondering if you were still watching this thread. I wanted to give you, and anyone else who was inetersted an update.

I have not had any issues with my Tivo since I installed the resistors to my setup. Caller ID is working fine, and my account is listed as "in good standing" (All of this said while knocking on wood...)

osetivo
09-15-2003, 08:49 PM
Thanks for the update. I forget how long it takes for the nag, but I think I will look into the resistors, I can always just plug it i to make an necessary calls.

osetivo
09-20-2003, 11:24 AM
UPDATE: I too built a little circuit board with the resistors, so far so good.

Now If I could solve the event bug that locks the remote, I'd have a happy wife and kids.