View Full Version : 1394 Output for UTV ... What if ...

08-29-2003, 12:28 PM
I have had my EE looking into modifying my Sony UTV to enable it to output via 1394 (Firewire). The idea came to me when I got my hands on the schematics for a DVCAM deck and a DVD Recorder and seeing what the HDTV community has available in the 169Time DVHS box. My hopes are to take a modded UTV’s 1394 signal out to a DVDR (Panasonic DMR-HS2).

The EE has spent considerable time looking at various chipsets and seems to think it is do-able. He wants to know what kind of interest the UTV community has for this mod.

There are 3 questions I would like for you to answer …

1 – Would you be interested this mod?
2 – What would be a fair price you are willing to pay for the plans for this mod?
3 – If he designs an add-on board … what would be a fair price you are willing to pay for the hardware?

I am only posting this thread on this forum (DealDatabase). Please keep the thread directed at answering the questions. I have not the technical savvy to tackle a project such as this … thus the EE. So, no technical questions at this time. Later, when the project appears to be nearer completion I may be able to provide more technical information. Right now it is just a ‘what if’ scenario.


David Bought
08-29-2003, 02:02 PM
Hey, I have another question for you:

4) Will the developer get sued into bankruptcy by the entertainment industry for selling a product that provides an unencrypted (?) digital output from the DTV feed? Most if not all domestic hardware manufacturers are scared shitless of producing devices that could be used in this way. However it could be a moot point since HDCP was compromised anyway.

To take a stab at #2: in general, the membership at hacking sites like Dealdatabase (http://alt.org) tends to favor free release of the plans, and selling the hardware at a profit. If there aren't a lot of pins/connections/SMT devices involved, the hardware will invariably be reverse engineered anyway.

08-29-2003, 02:49 PM
You know I would have bet money that you would be the one to …
1 – not follow directions.
2 – spew forth lame crap about HDCP or something else not on topic.

Please limit responses to the question at hand. I don’t care to hear about anything else off subject.

David Bought
08-29-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by kodakvnf
You know I would have bet money that you would be the one to …
1 – not follow directions.

What directions? (And tell me again why posting something on-topic should follow your "directions" anyway? Who died and made you king?)

2 – spew forth lame crap about HDCP or something else not on topic.

If you even knew what HDCP was, you would see that it is very much on topic when discussing a firewire video output.

Think before you post, for a change. And by the way, quit posting messages that consist solely of a smiley and no text. Cat got your tongue?

08-29-2003, 03:04 PM
Click ‘User CP’
Click ‘Edit Ignore List’
Enter ‘David Bought’ in Ignore List

David Bought
08-29-2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by rc3105
I'd say $75 is about the upper limit for that type of board since you can get decent capture cards for $50 or so

the real problem is that the dtv feed isn't standard mpg. you're going to have to do some crunching to go from the utv flavor of transport stream to dv. the utv doesn't have that sort of horsepower to spare, & if you tap one of the omegas you'll basically need the source for ms's os to make that work...

get your EE to design a $50 ide-ethernet wedge, then just do the conversion to dv on a pc. (the sw to do that's allready available - it's just UTV extraction that's a pain)

That could work, but it seems from the equipment models he mentioned that the OP was aiming for a different niche - one that does not have a PC in the middle.

For a PC based solution, he may as well just concentrate his efforts on the dtivo, as the tytool suite handles the whole process flawlessly already and could probably be modified (with some effort) to support the sort of realtime streaming he is looking for.

08-29-2003, 08:00 PM
I would have to say that I am very interested in this.

Places to start are to find people that worked for Panasonic, JVC, mitsubishi or hughes electronics as they have all implimented the firewire interface for d-vhs.
Web searches turn up resumes for these people, hint hint.

The example that I will give is that I use a panasonic d-vhs vcr to record bitstream out from my Mitsubishi sr-1 directv dss receiver. They have implimented a standard set of protocals for d-vhs over firewire. The reason I state this is that the windows ce platform that UTV is built on could surely support this protocal. In other words you could control the d-vhs vcr from the utv, additional PVR features, playback etc. The mitsubishi receiver also equates to a Hughes e45 ird from hughes electronics if you are interested.
This type of mod would also allow computers to get the firewire output, there is software that works on this protocal, I can't remember the name but avs forum has links to it.

They had no issue with this type of recording, its too bad David Bought does, but after all we are all very very concerned with what he has to say, NOT!!!

Keep going with this!! as it maeans that more people will work on modifying this device and we will get a better understanding on how it works.


David Bought
08-29-2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by wad
They had no issue with this type of recording, its too bad David Bought does,

DO NOT put words in my mouth.

Raising legitimate technical and legal concerns that the developer may need to face should not be misconstrued as an objection to the product. If you are having trouble understanding that, take some reading comprehension classes.

I can understand how you, as somebody who actively encourages theft (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=112339#post112339), might be planning to do some unscrupulous things with this hack. But that alone is not a good enough reason to oppose its development.

08-30-2003, 10:44 AM
KODAKVNF here is some info on a TI chipset that I recently saw and thought it may have major implications for this project:


It seems as though they plan to expand this audio s/pdif to 1394 chipset to handle video mpeg2 as well.

It seems that they are employing it an outboard device for audio but when it comes to video they need to add it to the set top box just as you propose. This is very much like the old ac-3 laser disc player mod to allow access to the ac-3 rf signal, note not the same as sp-dif(*needs converting).

Hopefully this chipset has an application for you as it seems its a solution tht will be employed in new devices and they are offering samples :)

And for David Bought, I appologize for placing words in your mouth, thank you for illistrating this by doing the same to me

"I can understand how you, as somebody who actively encourages theft, might be planning to do some unscrupulous things with this hack."

Lets try and keep this constructive our differing opinions shouldn't crap in this forum.

Good luck KODAKVNF, I will buy one if you market it and I will most certainly build one if you make it public, why not consider an open source model for this( just like BSD) as most peole wont even want to build it and market it, Your market will be protected by sheer lazyness. Thanks again for your Interest in this device.

08-31-2003, 02:47 AM
Who's this David Bought guy? Damn it. The reason we're here is because we were forced out of avsforum for talking hacking. Don't make this great place into another censored avsforum. Let us talk damn it. Stop wasting bandwidth with your no-hack warning posts.


08-31-2003, 10:45 AM
Here is the TI chip that allows for both audio and video(mpeg2) over a firewire connections.


this seems as an all in one solution your EE should look at something like this. The main issue is to find the feeds from the UTV for it.

In fact it would be great to see devices that use this chipset to help interconnect all things in my home theatre rack.

KODAKVNF any progress on this?

09-02-2003, 09:29 AM
Wad and others ...

Thanks for your interest and suggestions.

As I said in the opening post … I am not competent enough to even consider an undertaking of this magnitude. I only had an idea. The EE is looking at it and has lots of stuff on his plate. This mod will not be quick in coming.

That said … keep the (constructive) suggestions coming. I will pass ‘em on to the EE and if this project sparks, it should get bumped up to his front burner!