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View Full Version : Where can I find the Tuner IC's?



williamn333
09-15-2003, 02:01 PM
Hey guys I have looked everywhere to find the Tuner IC's for a SAT-W60 Sony ultimate and I can't find them anywhere! Anyone know where I can find them quickly? You can email me if you want! willn333@yahoo.com thanks guys!

klassic
09-15-2003, 03:19 PM
Item Information

988501206
IC-TUNER

Currently In Stock: Yes
Unit Price (in USD): $28.11


Good luck trying to replace a 100 pin surface mount chip on your own:eek:

Unless your looking for your electronic repair place ( from your AVS thread) to do it..

Get the part number from the Sat w60 manual and go here to get it....
http://servicesales.sel.sony.com/web/index.jsp

WARNING... don't try to order a LNBP13 chip from them....
see all the threads about that problem on this forum and at AVS

williamn333
09-15-2003, 03:52 PM
Hey man is the 988501206 and the 988501205 the same exact chip? If so, then I only looked up the 988501205 on there, which is Discontinued. 988501206 is the second tuner I think. 988501205 is the first one. Please let me know if this is a different chip. Thanks!!!

Kazak
09-15-2003, 04:12 PM
The one ending in 05 is the chip in the "cans" (if your model has them). U2301 and U 2401. Near the lnb connectors.

The one ending in 06 is a larger chip closer to the front of the unit. U2302 and U2402.

kazak

williamn333
09-15-2003, 06:12 PM
YESS! Which one usually goes bad? The 05 or 06? Thanks!

klassic
09-15-2003, 06:57 PM
I'm no expert.. but I have a UTV infront of me that, I think, has a bad "06" chip...

I know of two other people who have the same problem..
A section of the chip controls the cycling of the LNBP13 IC.

I am just assuming it is the problem chip because that is as far back as I can trace the problem. It could be something else controlling a certain part of that chip.... I don't know :confused:

I wish I could just swap it out for the 30$ (chip cost), but replacing that chip is imposible for a back yard hack.

So I use this UTV to put my fee up on when on the computer... :)


Hey Kazak... how's things?

williamn333
09-15-2003, 07:46 PM
Actually I used to work at Best Buy where they fix all the stuff so I know a guy that has the tools and skills to resolder one of those. He said he will replace the 2 of them for me really really cheap, so I am in luck! I hope that is the problem though!!!

Also you guys know if there is any way to test the "05"s? If not, where can I get a couple of those just in case? Thanks!

After much searching I found the "05" chip! If you look on the chip it is a MAX2104 made by Maxim. If you goto www.maximic.com and type in MAX2104 into the search it will bring it up. Scroll to the bottom and you will see something saying request samples. Click on that and fill in the information and they will mail you a FREE chip!! I did it for 2 of them and they are on their way! That takes care of the "05" chip, and I am going to order the "06" chip from Sony!! Thanks again guys for all your help!! Hopefully there is no other problem in this unit!!!

Kazak
09-15-2003, 10:05 PM
Heh, good work williamn333!

I just placed my sample order. Hope it works. Thanks!!

Hey klassic, whats cooking? Guess it's starting to cool off up there huh?

I've got a UTV with a tuner that will work for about 5 min after being off for a loooong time and no amount of cool spray will bring it back up. It's one of those that has the cans without a removable top so I just tore the thing off. Don't have much to lose so I just might try replacing the chip myself.

I'll let you know what happens...

kazak

klassic
09-15-2003, 10:26 PM
I've already got my igloo started Kazak ;)

Your UTV sounds like my foot stool UTV....
Let me know if it's heart starts beating again...and let me know how these things get soldered back in :eek:

williamn333
09-22-2003, 01:44 PM
Hey Kazak I just got my 2 MAX2104's today! Shipped fedex brand new with no charge!!! Now I just have to order the tuners! Let me know when you get yours!

Kazak
09-27-2003, 05:44 PM
Well, my 2 "sample" tuner chips came a day or so ago. Now let's see if I have the cojones to get one installed.
I'll post my success or failure...

kazak

flyerman
09-27-2003, 10:46 PM
Are these the chips that need to be replaced if I get a constant "searching for Satellite"? I have another unit that is good when I hook everything up but this unit keeps giving me this error.

Kazak
09-28-2003, 10:47 AM
Well, it could be. It could also be many other things. Search around this and the other forums about tuner problems. There has been a great deal of discussion about these problems.

kazak

darrellm
03-13-2006, 07:00 PM
I just did this and posted on AVS but link didn't copy...
here's the detail...

had a tuner fail about 5weeks ago.
I got online and discovered the max2104 failure mode and deivce recall.
I ordered 2 parts from Dallas/Maxim ($5 each/$10 shipping = $20 total)
The parts arrived in about 2 weeks from thier Phillipine factory( in sealed hermetic/humidity pak)

I had hoped to get access to a real hot air station at work, but no deal, just a
regular soldering station with really good magnification...

here is my experience:

successfully did the rework this weekend in the local lab, not for the faint of heart...
(sorry pics are so bad, thier off my cell phone w/ fixed focus)

however, I wasn't successful with solder paste... I'd like to know how to do it better next time so please review my process and point out errors... it was pretty crude so don't laugh... (I did no preheating... me bad)

I left the board in the chassis as adjacent connectors were well mounted on back panel.(image_008.jpg)

The 7mm TQFP (image 023, thats a AA battery in pic next to the spare part) was in an RF Can that took up about 2 sq inches, the lid of the can was a press fit and poped right off.

1) draped board in tin foil as crude heat protection and poked a hole over the part, hole was size of a $0.25 coin.
2) fasioned a funnel from tin foil on my hardware store heat gun, down to about 3/8" outlet.
3) applied heat and flipped bad part with tip of xacto knife (almost dislodged a small passive as part landed back on the board...(did this part at home in the kitchen)

4) I wicked all solder off and cleaned w/ flux and flux remover.... nice shinny site

here's where it got hard...

5) applied a line of solder paste across pads (which looked way too fat, used smallest dispensing tip I could find)
6) applied smallest drop of flux
7) applied heat expecting solder to puddle onto pads

Solder paste just dispersed/mixed into the flux and resulted in grey goo I had to clean/wipe off.

should I have not applied flux?
applied too much heat? (heat gun, flux boiled... hmmm)
(I think I sould have not have removed the old solder and should have just reflowed it with flux and heat gun)


8) recleaned
9) placed part (hard, even under magnification, every nudge was a big displacement.) and applied a drop of flux
10) tacked down one corner with a pencil (used smallest metcal pointed tip I could find)
11) tacked down opposite corner
12) used pencil to solder legs (very ugly, applied flux as needed, appeared as many globby bridges)
13) cleaned, and wicked excess solder (under low mag view, some pads looked pretty empty of solder)
14) cleaned, fluxed and reflowed with heat gun. (results were better under high mag view)
15) scraped off the single goober remaining on one leg w/ xacto knife

checked mechancial connection and continuity on every leg to pad., "A OK", took home and it worked.
(image 007 is after rework)

working under magnification was hard, depth of field was poor and tools looked huge(xacto was like a butter knife!).
RF Can and the bench mounted magnifier interfered with getting the solder pencil onto the part (small range of angle)

took an hour start to finish. used 2~3" of wick, ~1" of thin solder wire, a dozen drops of flux, 4 swabs, maybe 6~10 seconds of spray can flux cleaner...

one side ended up mis-registered (legs were maybe 25%~30% off pads) in the end but I didn't want to try and correct it
as that would be pushing my luck.

btw, even a small drop of flux spread all over under heat (area of 6 or 7 sq inches) and I'm sure lots of surrounding passives reflowed a few times.

Some few joints didn't have the uniform shine as most and some adjacent passives lost the shine.
I'm assuming these could be cold joints or just have some residual crusty flux.
(I didn't "scrub" with flux cleaner just sprayed and let it run off)

the receiver is on 24/7/365 except for unscheduled down time so there is no on/off temperature cycles.
If the rework lasts 6mo I think that will be OK until receiver gets replaced...

hope this is helpfull to others...

klassic
03-13-2006, 08:30 PM
Congrats.. you are in the club now too.

I just re read this thread too.. looks like I hadn't changed a tuner chip yet.
And it looks like Kazak was just getting ready to do his.

I never cleaned the old solder off the pads. It was easier to just heat the legs and let them stick. Then I tried putting some solder on. Some got it and some didn't.
The result is once the chip got hot some legs would let go. I resoldered it three times.
I even had two pads come off, and had to use a micro thin piece of wire and follow the trace to the component.
I don't think I would try it again, pretty much got lucky the first time.

Now that I don't have the unpowered multiswitch hooked up I havent lost a UTV tuner. It's been over two years.
:eek: wow does time ever fly!

NlogN posted a link to some sweet hot air stations a long time ago, that would make the job a snap...but I think he has been banned from the internet completely now :D

klassic
03-13-2006, 08:52 PM
Wow I just saw your magnifier!!
You would laugh if you saw what I used.
I think you would have had an easier time if you took out the mobo, it comes out easily.
Here was my end result.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/klassic/Untitled-7.jpg

mbellot
03-14-2006, 01:21 AM
Not bad, especially for such crude tools (heat gun esp.)

If you ever decide to do it again I would:

1. Use an X-acto and simply cut all the legs on the TQFP
2. Use flux and solder wick to remove the legs left behind.
3. Place part by hand and tack corners (like you did)
4. Flux the living he!! out of it
5. Using the smallest solder you can get (I use 0.015" dia.) load up the tip at one end of the IC and "drag" the molten solder down the line of leads adding solder to the ball on the tip as needed to keep it wet.
6. Clean up any bridges, usually at the end of the IC

Step 5 is literally called drag soldering and works quite well for fine pitch parts, assuming you have the package placed fairly accurately. It works on the surface tension of the molten solder. Metcal even makes tips specifically for this process.

Most important thing is to remember flux is your friend. I have yet to find a situation where I had too much flux.


Don't try this at home kids, we're professionals. :eek:

Kazak
03-14-2006, 01:12 PM
Good on you Darrellm.:clap: And you're right, it's not for the faint of heart.:D The one I did required 2 resolderings over the next few months. I finally replaced it with another receiver and have it for parts.

I now have access to a laser microwelder that I will try if I ever have to do it again. Like Klassic, I envy you the use of that magnifier.:)


kazak

klassic
03-14-2006, 07:25 PM
Geeezz mbellot, where were you 2 years ago with these soldering tips?!
When I was heating up my iron on some red hot coal and dripping some lead with jet fighter pilot precision.

Where can I see a pic of this drag solder tip?

mbellot
03-14-2006, 09:49 PM
Geeezz mbellot, where were you 2 years ago with these soldering tips?!
When I was heating up my iron on some red hot coal and dripping some lead with jet fighter pilot precision.

Doing SMT rework on designs I had managed to totally FUBAR. Engineers know how to use irons too (at least some of us do). :D

You haven't lived until you try to attach jumpers to four consecutive pins on a 0.5mm pitch flash memory part and then route them to a large FPGA because you "forgot" to put them in the original schematic.



Where can I see a pic of this drag solder tip?

For drag solder tips (specifically for Metcal irons) scroll all the way to the bottom of this link:

http://metcal.okinternational.com/products/1.2.2.2.1.htm

Personally I don't use them, I just drag a normal tip, but lots of people swear by them for this kind of insanity.

David Butt
03-18-2006, 08:35 AM
Congrats.. you are in the club now too.

I just re read this thread too.. looks like I hadn't changed a tuner chip yet.
And it looks like Kazak was just getting ready to do his.

I never cleaned the old solder off the pads. It was easier to just heat the legs and let them stick. Then I tried putting some solder on. Some got it and some didn't.
The result is once the chip got hot some legs would let go. I resoldered it three times.
I even had two pads come off, and had to use a micro thin piece of wire and follow the trace to the component.
I don't think I would try it again, pretty much got lucky the first time.

Now that I don't have the unpowered multiswitch hooked up I havent lost a UTV tuner. It's been over two years.
:eek: wow does time ever fly!

NlogN posted a link to some sweet hot air stations a long time ago, that would make the job a snap...but I think he has been banned from the internet completely now :D
Wow, what an old thread...revived! This is NLogN, and no, not banned from the Internet, just from AVS...and google! :D

Congrats from me too, darrellm!! Great job soldering. It's not how it looks, rather how it works!! ;) I had a local shop do the soldering, and the guy screwed it up pretty bad. Lots of traces lifted & that unit was sporatic ever since. I sent it in to CCS Corp...those guys did a great job.

Great to see you guys around. Just please stay out of trouble!!!

*NLogN*
03-25-2006, 01:29 PM
Linky... http://www.i-phone.org/main/browse.php?prod=152&cat=92

mannynrob
04-13-2006, 03:41 PM
Now that I don't have the unpowered multiswitch hooked up I havent lost a UTV tuner. It's been over two years.
:eek: wow does time ever fly!

Hi. Tried a search for "unpowered multiswitch" and didn't find anything else--I apologize if I'm asking about a much-discussed topic.

Is there a known problem with using an unpowered multiswitch? I had both of my UTVs hooked up via a 4-way powered multiswitch at our old apartment (for about 4 years with no problems), and when we moved the DirecTV installation guy hooked them up using a 4-way unpowered switch. And about a month or so later, Tuner 1 on one of my UTVs died. Should I go out and get another powered switch ASAP before the unpowered one kills any more tuners?

Thanks in advance for any help or info anyone can provide.

klassic
04-23-2006, 04:29 PM
Can't say it's the problem for sure....but I haven't lost a tuner since I took off my "unpowered" multiswitch. About 3 years ago.
And I find it odd you have lost one going back to unpowered.

But I also switched from an RCA to a Sony... whether that had anything to do with it.
I lost a tuner in two RCA's before.
Also, I now have an unbelievable slide-out, rotating rack mount for all my gear :cool: and it has three fans in the rear. Maybe the fans are what's keeping my W60 purring....but I didn't get the rack for 2 years after ditching the multi switch.

Search the archives of AVS...there was some discussion a few years ago...although nothing was proven

klassic
04-23-2006, 04:34 PM
Look what the cat dragged in!>>>>>>>>NLogN<<<<< :eek:

Last I heard, you were weighing yourself down with a keg at your mothers...so the hurricane wouldn't pick you up!:D

I guess you and Hal haven't made up yet...

zcarguy
04-25-2006, 02:43 AM
hey guys,

I have an rca utv with 1 bad tuner. I also have an extra max2104 chip dated 0405. I originally got the chips to repair a few dp301's. Since it is the same chip would a properly replaced max2104 likely fix my dead tuner.

If so anyone know someone in the GTA that might fix this for me?

Thanks,

Z

dan0
10-31-2006, 02:08 PM
Actually I used to work at Best Buy where they fix all the stuff so I know a guy that has the tools and skills to resolder one of those. He said he will replace the 2 of them for me really really cheap, so I am in luck! I hope that is the problem though!!!

Also you guys know if there is any way to test the "05"s? If not, where can I get a couple of those just in case? Thanks!

After much searching I found the "05" chip! If you look on the chip it is a MAX2104 made by Maxim. If you goto www.maximic.com and type in MAX2104 into the search it will bring it up. Scroll to the bottom and you will see something saying request samples. Click on that and fill in the information and they will mail you a FREE chip!! I did it for 2 of them and they are on their way! That takes care of the "05" chip, and I am going to order the "06" chip from Sony!! Thanks again guys for all your help!! Hopefully there is no other problem in this unit!!!

anyone try to get a sample lately?

dan0
08-03-2007, 08:07 PM
I'm beginning to think no one reads these threads anymore :(

klassic
08-03-2007, 09:21 PM
I'm still here dan0....
I've got an extra chip if you want it.
Unless they start to rot after a couple years:confused: