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View Full Version : Hard Drive Difference between JB & BB?



flyerman
09-22-2003, 12:04 AM
What is the difference between the JB and the BB Western Digital? I can't seem to get the JB to work and have tried the MHD3 tool to zero out and keep getting Timeout errors, even when powering down and trying over and over. I was wondering if I swapped the controller board of another Western Digital from a "BB" one the "JB" drive if this will fix my problem?

Is the diffence in these two Western Digital 120GB drives just 2 or 8Mg of ram.

apn64
09-22-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by flyerman
Is the diffence in these two Western Digital 120GB drives just 2 or 8Mg of ram.

On the surface I'd say yes, but reports are that people can't get 'JB' models working in UTV probably means that the controller doesn't support the ATA-3 security protocol.

Swapping controllers is an interesting idea, but if you already have a 'BB' why not just use it?

Might have a chance to return the non-working 'JB' model, if not use it in a PC.

If you're talking about using a controller from another non-120GB WD 'BB' drive, then it's worth a try, but there may be hard-coded constants in the firmware to identify the drive size, in which case you're screwed.

I can't imagine that the controller checks the platter(s) on start-up to determine drive size. More likely customized in the firmware or non-volatile (data) memory on the card.

GL!

metrotech
09-22-2003, 10:23 AM
Thats the way it looks to me you should be able to just swap the board out. all of the other specs are identical. Have you tried a bb in the box? Those boards are not cheap by themselves.

MT

flyerman
09-22-2003, 04:01 PM
Tried swaping the boards because I couldn't return the JB and I bought a BB and can return that one. Anyway, when I swapped it out the drive would start clicking and the drive and computer would not start. Oh well! I can't seem to zero out the JB drive because of timout issues even when I restart the machine. Back to the drawing board.

Anyone know where to get 120GB drives for under $90 that will work in the UTV?

David Bought
09-22-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by flyerman
Tried swaping the boards because I couldn't return the JB and I bought a BB and can return that one. Anyway, when I swapped it out the drive would start clicking and the drive and computer would not start. Oh well! I can't seem to zero out the JB drive because of timout issues even when I restart the machine. Back to the drawing board.

Anyone know where to get 120GB drives for under $90 that will work in the UTV?

Is the JB locked or is it a bad drive? You don't NEED MHD3 in order to wipe the drive. If the JB is locked, hot swap and reimage. If it's not locked, try to reimage and use the HD for something else if the UTV doesn't accept/lock it.

Why don't you just use the BB that you have? The 8MB cache on the JB won't make a difference in a PVR anyway.

satchmoe
09-22-2003, 07:50 PM
The jbs I have seen so far don't support security, find and run atapwd if it has a + by security it should work as far as mhd3 i don't know what it's reaction would be to a drive that didn't support security if the lba number printed on the drive ends in 0000 it's a good bet it doesn't support security.
also there is no reason to zero the whole drive, zero sector 0 through sector 771592 in decimal and write your image at sector 631811
I haven't really tried to see how much junk you can get away with leaving, but I do know that sector zero needs to be zeroed and sectors 631811 through 697346 as well as sector 762883 and probably sector 771592

flyerman
09-22-2003, 10:13 PM
I bought the BB from Circuit City for $150 and was looking to return it after testing if just switching the board would solve my problem.

Thanks.

David Bought
09-22-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by flyerman
I bought the BB from Circuit City for $150 and was looking to return it after testing if just switching the board would solve my problem.

Don't abuse return policies, <flame deleted>. If you don't intend on keeping something, don't buy it in the first place.

People like you are the reason prices are so high.

flyerman
09-22-2003, 11:11 PM
Assbag? That is a new one. Don't you test drive a new car to see if it's the one you want? It is the manufactures fault for putting out different drives. But I do agree with you somewhat that it is not recommended but "Assbag". I guess people have nothing better to do.

satchmoe
09-22-2003, 11:17 PM
I have a jb in one of my puters an the circuit board is way different than my bb...no matter i used the jb to setup personal video station on another computer..have a snapstream remote and a drd 420 hooked to it...almost as good as utv.

David Bought
09-23-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by flyerman
Assbag? That is a new one. Don't you test drive a new car to see if it's the one you want?

Do you test drive a new car so you can swap parts with your old car?

Obviously the BB drive works - so the honest thing to do is KEEP IT. Don't be the scumbag who ruins their overly generous return policies for the rest of us.

wad
09-25-2003, 05:49 PM
I myself have had troubles trying to unlock and zero the 120jb drive. I Tried for days and couldn't get it to unlock and zero.
I took it back to where I bought it and they said that they had heard of western digital drives that wont unlock once locked, they say they are unlocked to the zeroing software but they wont allow reads or writes.

When I returned mine, the store was kind enough to test it and they said they received an error code and that there must be some problem with it, they sort of thought about blaming me but either way they replaced it no questions asked.

Just like when my new car broke they allowed me to return it to the dealer and have my problems fixed.

Anyhow the replacement on eworks great able to unlock and zero as much as I want, thanks wildfrog!

Flagg
09-29-2003, 04:07 PM
I always assumed that all retail JB drives supported ATA security but therer seem to be a few people who have problems every now and then.

I have used and locked 2 WD 120GB JB drives in Microsoft xbox's and 1 WD 160GB JB drive with no problem in a UTV.

Incidentally, while theoretically there is no need for the extra speed of a 7200rpm drive or 8mb vs 2mb - I have seen noticeable speed improvements in responsiveness on the UTV with the WD 160GB 8mb cache version as opposed to one with a 5400rpm 120gb 2mb drive.

Anyone else noticed this before?

Flagg

flyerman
09-29-2003, 04:38 PM
How much more space do you get with the 160GB? I thought 120GB was the biggest because of the limitations of the software?

Flagg
10-24-2003, 11:02 PM
Installing a 160gb drive gives you 137gb of usable space, which is the maximum amount of space that a UTV can see.

I don't look at it as losing some of the drive, I look at it as getting the absolute maximum amount of space I can have in my UTV!

Flagg

apn64
10-25-2003, 07:26 AM
The limitation is due to the IDE controller and the UTV's BIOS.

This is a common finding in the PC world, and new 48-bit addressing IDE controllers are becoming available, moving the 137GB limit up to 4TB.

Flagg
10-25-2003, 01:20 PM
The limitation is entirely in the BIOS.

One of the specifications of LBA48 is that it must be 100% backward compatible with LBA28, therefore almost any IDE controller can support it.

The BIOS could be rewritten to support larger drives, but I don't know of anyone working on this and I doubt that it will ever be done.

Flagg

apn64
10-25-2003, 05:46 PM
LBA backward compatibility makes sense, but how does an LBA28 controller address the space beyond 137GB if it doesn't have the firmware and/or hardware to do so?

Or are you saying that all current controllers support LBA48?

Flagg
10-26-2003, 12:30 AM
I'm not an expert in this area, so I may not be 100% correct here, but as far as I understand it is this:

The original ATA spec used what was called an Int13h interface. If you are familiar with older computers, you may remember that to configure a hard drive you needed to specify the specific head, cylinder and sector addresses in the BIOS in order to access the BIOS. The problem with this interface was that it was only 24bits and that it couldn't address anything higher than 8.4gb.

To break the 8.4gb barrier, all ATA controllers now use a new interface that supports 64-bit Int3h extensions. Basically, what this means AFAIK is that all ATA controllers that support hard drives that are larger than 8GB are physically capable of addressing up to 64 bits - or 9.4 trillion GB. The head, cylinder and sector information are translated through Logical Block Addressing (LBA).

LBA is just a method of translating the disk information from the disk controller to the BIOS. The BIOS then translates the information back to the OS. The BIOS in an Ultimate TV only supports LBA-24 geometry translation. If it were updated to support LBA-48 then an Ultimate TV would be able to support hard drives that were 4 terabytes in size!

Like I said earlier though, I don't know of anyone actively working on modifying the UTV BIOS, much less if it's even possible to reflash it with a new one!

Flagg

NghtShd
10-28-2003, 12:13 PM
Just for the record, an LBA48 patch has been done with the Xbox, thus breaking the 137GB limit.

Flagg
10-28-2003, 03:06 PM
Hey NghtShd, nice to see you here!

Any input you have would be greatly appreciated.

FYI for anyone else reading this thread, NghtShd is one of the premiere BIOS modders in the XBOX world - and the developer of the XBOX BIOS patch tool - XBTOOL.

If anyone could give a truely informed opinion on this matter, it would be him.

Flagg

NghtShd
10-28-2003, 06:48 PM
Hi Flagg,

I'm sure there are many people here much more knowledgable than I, but I did want to note the success with the Xbox. It gives some cause for hope.