Newbie to Tivo extraction - several questions

[shadowmn]

Hi guys,

First off I want to thank Dealdatabase for hosting such a valuable forum of information. I'd also like to thank the developers of the various apps for their tireless work to make apps that extract Tivo video as ***** proof as possible. Lastly, please accept my humble apologies if this is not the correct place to post these questions. I have attempted to search for the answers, but it can be difficult to sort through hits for relevant as well as current information in the forum.

My setup is a Philips Tivo series 1 Standalone. I've got it hacked up pretty nicely and I have (to my untrained eye, at least) successfully extracted video. I did so using a combination of TyStudio (0.50) for downloading and TyTool7r10 for for cutting out commercials and converting to .VOBs (TyStudio consistently errors out during the cutting process). My intention is to burn the end result to DVD. I have a digital cable box connected to the Tivo with composite video cable (red,white,yellow). I'm going to be upgrading to a cable box with S-video soon.

My main motivation for Tivo extraction is archiving the shows I watch this season because I am expecting not to have time to watch TV in the very near future (expecting a baby). Archiving the shows is the only way I am going to be able satisfy my TV addiction without suffering from horrible withdrawal. :-)

So let's get to the questions:

1) This is probably a dumb question, but I wanted to ask it anyway so I can uninstall TyStudio and use the TyTool method of downloading .TY files from my Tivo. I was a bit overzealous and installed TyStudio before I realized there was TyTool as well. And since TyStudio cutting doesn't work for me, I'd like to stick with one tool if possible. Anyway, is there any difference between .TY files downloaded using TyStudio vs. TyTool? I'm guessing not, but I want to make certain.

2) Given that I am planning to burn the video I extract to DVD and that I typically record my shows at Tivo's best quality (unmodified). Should I look into modifying the bit rates for the quality settings for better quality DVD recordings? Will these changes make a difference given the type of connection I use to my cable box? I'm less concerned with how much space I take on the DVD than I am with quality of the recording, however, if I make a change that results in fitting 2 shows on a disc instead of 3, I want to be able to see the difference. If a change is suggested, please also feel free to suggest what specific changes should be made.

3) As I stated before, I was able to pull .TY files for a few shows with TyStudio, however, I ended up using TyTool to process the .TY files into VOB files with the commercials cut out. The process appeared to be successful and I am able to view the .VOB files with WinDVD. It seems like all I need to do now is burn the VOB files to a DVD with Nero 6. In my research, however, it seems other folks suggest there is more to do. The main issues seems to be audio and video synchronization which doesn't appear to be an issue in my VOBs and something to do with timecodes. I'm relatively new to DVD mastering, so I would appreciate it if someone could tell me if I am missing something that has to do with needing tools like DVD Lab, MPEG-VCR, and DVD-Maestro.

4) Finally, I'd really just like to hear any suggestions or modifications to my current workflow that will result in the best quality end result. I'd also appreciate a pointer to any resources that you feel may be helpful in understanding the DVD Mastering process.

Thank you all for your kind assistance.
Nadeem

[captain_video]

1) TyTool does something a little different to the video headers that all other extraction tools don't do. It's fine for use within TyTool by ty files extracted with TyTool don't process well in TyStudio for this reason. Ty files extracted with any current method all work fine in TyTool.

2) I don't have a standalone Tivo but I believe you can change the resolution from within Tivoweb so that your SA Tivo will record in a DVD-compliant resolution.

3) You can extract, edit, mux, and author the ty files using TyTool without having to use any other program. Here's the process:

a) Extract in TyStream mode
b) Make keyfile9s)
c) Edit keyfile(s)
d) VOB-Mux Files
e) Create IFO Files/Dirs
f) Burn AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders to DVD-R/RW or +R/+RW.

If you want to use a 3rd part authoring tool for creating your own menus then use the Multiplex option in place of steps d and e and import the mpeg file into the authoring program. If the program requires elemental streams then use the Split Multiplex Files option instead. Note that some programs won't accept files in 480X480 resolution and therefore must be patched using DVD-Patcher to change the 1st header to either 352X480 @3.5MBit (Ulead tools) or 720X480 @15MBit (DVD Maestro and SpruceUp).

[shadowmn]

Thanks for your response Captain Video, I really appreciate it.

I'd like to clarify your responses to my questions if you don't mind.

1) If I understand you correctly, extracting using TyTool does in fact create a different .TY file than using TyStudio (which is what I am currently using). Is this difference of form or function? What I mean is does this difference have a function? (e.g. Does extracting with TyTool create a .TY file that works better with the rest of TyTools functionality? Does it create a higher quality file? etc.) If the difference in the file is merely a quirk in the program then I won't concern myself with it.
I'm not asking which is the better tool, rather I am more interested in which tool works best in my situation. So in my case, since I am forced to use TyTool for the processing of the .TY file, is it more optimal for me to use it for extraction as well?

2) I have TivoWeb installed and I have seen the place where changing the bit rates and resolutions is possible, however, I am interested in knowing if there is an optimal resolution configuration for burning programs recorded by Tivo to DVD and if that optimal configuration is different than the default configuration for the various quality settings. To simplify, I'm asking for the best numbers to use, assuming that more experienced users have gone through trial and error to determine this already.

3) Based on your answer, it is only really necessary to use a third party program to master the extracted files if you plan to do a menu for your DVD. It seems like an awful lot of extra work to go through just for menus. I haven't gotten this far in TyTool, but is there some type of default/basic menu that gets created if you burn multiple .VOBs to a DVD, or do the files just play sequentially?

Thank you again for your responses. If my follow-up questions can be answered by other resources, feel free to point me to a URL instead of going to the trouble of responding to each question.

Nadeem

[sanderton]

Originally posted by shadowmn

3) Based on your answer, it is only really necessary to use a third party program to master the extracted files if you plan to do a menu for your DVD.

No, TyTools creates a menu. It's text only, but it does the job.

[shadowmn]

That's good news. I'm not that concerned about sophisticated menus, although I'm sure it would be interesting to learn about.

What I was wondering was if creating fancy menus was the only reason to use a 3rd party app to master DVDs instead of TyTool. After further reading in the forum, it seems as though DirectTivo users need to go through a bit more complicated process (including using 3rd party apps for mastering), for reasons I have not yet grasped.

Anyway, thanks for the answer!

Nadeem

[captain_video]

To backtrack and answer you r other questions, there is no difference in the quality of the ty files extracted with any of the currently available methods. TyTool ty files just tend to be slightly incompatible with TyStudio but that's all. If you plan on using TyTool for processing the ty file then it's just as easy to use it for extraction as well. It's probably the easiest extraction method anyway. I believe I indicated the resolutions you'll need to use so set up your SA Tivo to record at 720X480.

DTivo owners don't really have to go through a lot of extra steps to author DVDs made with extracted ty files. The video resolution is set at 480X480 and cannot be changed like it can in a SA Tivo. However, the audio is fine as is whereas a SA Tivo has to be transcoded from 32kHz to 48kHz to make it DVD compliant. So you see, there's a little bit of extra processing that has to be done with either type of ty file. Fortunately, TyTool handles either type as is with the necessary conversions built into the tool.

The only reason to go with a 3rd party authoring program is to create more professional-looking DVDs. TyTool is great for creating basic menus and chapter stops but you'll need to look elsewhere if you want to get really fancy.

[eastwind]

Originally posted by shadowmn

My main motivation for Tivo extraction is archiving the shows I watch this season because I am expecting not to have time to watch TV in the very near future (expecting a baby). Archiving the shows is the only way I am going to be able satisfy my TV addiction without suffering from horrible withdrawal. :-)



You might have a couple of hours a night (morning) for TV if you get up to take care of the little tyke at 2am. :)

Originally posted by shadowmn

2) Given that I am planning to burn the video I extract to DVD and that I typically record my shows at Tivo's best quality (unmodified). Should I look into modifying the bit rates for the quality settings for better quality DVD recordings? Will these changes make a difference given the type of connection I use to my cable box? I'm less concerned with how much space I take on the DVD than I am with quality of the recording, however, if I make a change that results in fitting 2 shows on a disc instead of 3, I want to be able to see the difference. If a change is suggested, please also feel free to suggest what specific changes should be made.



Here's a link (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=108384#post108384) to a little info about some different bitrates you can use. DVD spec calls for resolutions of 720x480, 704x480, or 352x480. If you stick with those resolutions your DVDs will be more likely to play on any given DVD player (YMMV). If you edit your resources using TiVoWeb to use those resolutions and then adjust your bitrates you can optimize the use of DVD space while getting the quality you want/need. I tracked down on my TiVo what each of the resolution settings by making a 5 minute record of each, getting them with TyTool in Multiplex mode, and checking the resolution with mpegprop.exe (no link..sorry..search).

Don't forget to hit ENTER after each change of a setting in TiVoWeb and after all changes to Update Resource Settings and then Reboot the TiVo.

Also, the best time to transcode the Audio to 48kHz is when you are making the .VOB--not while extracting from the TiVo (learned this one the hard way twice :().

Hope this helps...
ew