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BubbleLamp
10-05-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by David Bought
No flaming in the NEWBIE forum corbelli. Read the charter:

That's a riot. Maybe you should show that to the mods who would rather belittle and lash out, then delete their own tracks when people call them on it.

JJBliss
10-05-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by BubbleLamp
That's a riot. Maybe you should show that to the mods who would rather belittle and lash out, then delete their own tracks when people call them on it.

Which moderators belittle and lash out, then delete their own tracks?

Would you care to point out specific instances, or identify the moderator, or moderators, that you're challenging in public?

Otherwise, I think I take offense.

BubbleLamp
10-05-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by JJBliss
Which moderators belittle and lash out, then delete their own tracks?

Would you care to point out specific instances, or identify the moderator, or moderators, that you're challenging in public?

Otherwise, I think I take offense.

Ask your fellow mods, it just happened in the past 24 hours. I'm sure they will remember. :rolleyes:

David Bought
10-06-2003, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by BubbleLamp
That's a riot. Maybe you should show that to the mods who would rather belittle and lash out, then delete their own tracks when people call them on it.

What you don't realize is that moderators often are forced to adopt a tougher stance than usual against repeat offenders. For instance, there have been (ab)users who sign up several times with new accounts in an attempt to get their inappropriate questions answered here. Moderators, who realize that these accounts are phony, are well justified in treating them more harshly than they treat the run-of-the-mill noob who doesn't know any better. A similar effect can be seen on forums which deal with well-known, persistent trolls and troublemakers; Hitec on freedomfight.ca comes to mind.

The fact that even mods like JJBliss have exercised restraint when dealing with the dregs of the TiVo hacking community is a testament to the seriousness with which they take their jobs here.

captain_video
10-06-2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by David Bought
No flaming in the NEWBIE forum corbelli. Read the charter:

If you're going to lash out at someone at least have the decency to spell his name correctly. The name is cobelli. That's c-o-b-e-l-l-i.

JJBliss
10-06-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by BubbleLamp
Ask your fellow mods, it just happened in the past 24 hours. I'm sure they will remember. :rolleyes:

So, you prefer not to support the PUBLIC incindiary statements you made with any PUBLIC evidence.

There are many forums that would simply ban you for speaking out against a moderator. Lucky for YOU and I, that dealdatabase is much more willing to support free speech in ALL it's forms including the questioning and attacking of management.

If you have no support, or would not like to discuss it further, maybe you should consider recinding your previous comments.

BubbleLamp
10-06-2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by JJBliss
So, you prefer not to support the PUBLIC incindiary statements you made with any PUBLIC evidence.

There are many forums that would simply ban you for speaking out against a moderator. Lucky for YOU and I, that dealdatabase is much more willing to support free speech in ALL it's forms including the questioning and attacking of management.

If you have no support, or would not like to discuss it further, maybe you should consider recinding your previous comments.

How can I produce evidence when it was deleted. Fine, you want names, it was Mr. Black. The thread had something to do with DTV hacking, and the poster had 2 posts to his name. Mr. Black took it upon himself to change the title of the thread to say as much. I suggested the mods put some big notice on the first page of the forums warning about the rules, and something similar in the new user registration. To change the title was blatant overuse of powers. I suggested he could have written directly to the offending party instead. Several posters agreed with my comments. That's when the thread disappeared.

In an unrelated event, a few weeks ago, Riley posted in a thread that there were two legal actions in the works for some of the extraction-related activities, but he mentioned no specifics. I inquired if it had anything to do with mpauley's ty sharing efforts. The next day, Riley's original post was removed from the thread. Rightly so, people wanted to know more about this. (Alphawolf asked where the post I was referring to, but it was gone.) Mpauley pulled the plug on his site a day or so later.

So you tell me, what do YOU see is the job of a moderator?

JJBliss
10-06-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by BubbleLamp

So you tell me, what do YOU see is the job of a moderator?


From my past experiences on other forums and my tasks here at dealdatabase, I have always inferred the following:

Maintain decorum in the threads
Keep the thread on topic
Monitor threads for rule violations
Clean up threads that have double posts or individual requests for deletion
Remove offensive posts
Move improperly located threads to the appropriate forum
Delete threads which violate the administrators rules and will bring undue hardship to the owner and participants of this forum
General forum maintainance


If you are still unsure as to the duties and responsibilties of a forum moderator, you should search Google for a rather in depth discussion of a forum moderators tasks.

Do you have any other suggestions or criticisms you'd like to air?

BubbleLamp
10-06-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by JJBliss
From my past experiences on other forums and my tasks here at dealdatabase, I have always inferred the following:

Maintain decorum in the threads
Keep the thread on topic
Monitor threads for rule violations
Clean up threads that have double posts or individual requests for deletion
Remove offensive posts
Move improperly located threads to the appropriate forum
Delete threads which violate the administrators rules and will bring undue hardship to the owner and participants of this forum
General forum maintainance


If you are still unsure as to the duties and responsibilties of a forum moderator, you should search Google for a rather in depth discussion of a forum moderators tasks.

Do you have any other suggestions or criticisms you'd like to air?

I agree with your list. Note you didn't say "modify a post to belittle the poster". That was my arguement with the heavy-handed changes made. Things can be done with decorum, or they can be handled the way DB (who isn't a mod, but acts like he is) chooses to, with a snide inuendo many times.

And what was Mr. Black's reason for deleting the thread?

JJBliss
10-06-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by BubbleLamp
I agree with your list. Note you didn't say "modify a post to belittle the poster". That was my arguement with the heavy-handed changes made. Things can be done with decorum, or they can be handled the way DB (who isn't a mod, but acts like he is) chooses to, with a snide inuendo many times.

And what was Mr. Black's reason for deleting the thread?


David Bought does NOT act like a moderator. He acts like a spoiled child who wants to be just like his older brother, copying his every action, but without any substance.

He is NOT emulating or acting like a mod, quite the opposite; he is acting like a user who would like to BE a mod.

Regarding mrblack51's actions, I suggest that we wait for his response.

David Bought
10-06-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by BubbleLamp
The thread had something to do with DTV hacking, and the poster had 2 posts to his name. Mr. Black took it upon himself to change the title of the thread to say as much.

Threads get renamed all the time. For instance, this thread was renamed to "Mod questioning" when the discussion took a sharp turn toward that direction. Surely you are not implying that this thread should still be called "Hardware error," are you?

Is it your position that a thread discussing clearly forbidden topics, which has turned into a flamewar, should remain up? Who died and made you Vadim's DMCA contact, anyway? Our rules are here to keep the owners from being sued.


In an unrelated event, a few weeks ago, Riley posted in a thread that there were two legal actions in the works for some of the extraction- related activities, but he mentioned no specifics. I inquired if it had anything to do with mpauley's ty sharing efforts. The next day, Riley's original post was removed from the thread. Rightly so, people wanted to know more about this. (Alphawolf asked where the post I was referring to, but it was gone.) Mpauley pulled the plug on his site a day or so later.

Read between the lines a little bit will ya? Riley implied that he was contacted by Tivo's legal team, that he arrived at a settlement with them, and that the settlement prohibits him from talking about the situation. Although we have no proof of this (unless a suit was actually filed with the court), such an arrangement gives Tivo the silence it wants and it saves Riley the hassle and expense of defending a frivolous lawsuit.


Originally posted by JJBliss
David Bought does NOT act like a moderator. He acts like a spoiled child who wants to be just like his older brother, copying his every action, but without any substance.

It's funny that you mention that. In recent weeks I've gotten dozens of PMs thanking me for my help and asking me why somebody with your "experience" ;) was promoted to moderator status instead of an actual Tivo hacker like myself. And frankly, I haven't been able to answer that yet.

JJBliss
10-06-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by David Bought

It's funny that you mention that. In recent weeks I've gotten dozens of PMs thanking me for my help and asking me why somebody with your "experience" ;) was promoted to moderator status instead of an actual Tivo hacker like myself. And frankly, I haven't been able to answer that yet.

Well, for starters, I'm not insane.

Second, I have contributed a very small amount to the Tivo community, while you, have contributed nothing. Your nickname doesn't even exist other then to satirize the administrator of Tivocommunity. You have no name of your own. You are no one.

Also, it is not a "promotion" as much as it is an unpaid volunteer job.

If you had illustrated some desire to volunteer your time to maintain the forum, instead of degrading it, you might have been considered. Moreover, your less then subtle insinuation that I have less experience then YOU is ludicrous. You are nothing more then a figment of your own imagination. A legend in your own mind, as it were.

I am not surprised that you have not been able to answer that question yet, as you are delusional enough to attempt to close threads with no privilege.

What color is the sky in your world?

mrblack51
10-06-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by BubbleLamp
How can I produce evidence when it was deleted. Fine, you want names, it was Mr. Black. The thread had something to do with DTV hacking, and the poster had 2 posts to his name. Mr. Black took it upon himself to change the title of the thread to say as much. I suggested the mods put some big notice on the first page of the forums warning about the rules, and something similar in the new user registration. To change the title was blatant overuse of powers. I suggested he could have written directly to the offending party instead. Several posters agreed with my comments. That's when the thread disappeared.

In an unrelated event, a few weeks ago, Riley posted in a thread that there were two legal actions in the works for some of the extraction-related activities, but he mentioned no specifics. I inquired if it had anything to do with mpauley's ty sharing efforts. The next day, Riley's original post was removed from the thread. Rightly so, people wanted to know more about this. (Alphawolf asked where the post I was referring to, but it was gone.) Mpauley pulled the plug on his site a day or so later.

So you tell me, what do YOU see is the job of a moderator?

Lets address these issues systematically:

Thread from the other day (dtv hacking subject) - The rules are clear on this subject. The individual came in assuming that this was a dtv hacking forum, and mad it clear that his intent was to steal service. the thread was named in such a way to imply the contents were something other than that. The thread was renamed to appropriately based on the contents of the thread. Once the thread degraded to a point where pruning and/or editing was not feasible, it was deleted so the original poster could start again with a clean slate. you had some ideas for changes to the forum...thats great. you assume that because you made suggestions that the thread was deleted...thats self centered and short sighted. However, i have no obligation to justify my actions to you.

Riley's thread -

no offence, but are you spending too much time reading conspiracy novels or something. I had nothing to do with that thread. Riley is a mod of the extraction forum, so to imply that the deletion of his post is my doing is baseless to say the least. I had no involvement in that thread, not that I need to justify any of my actions to you.

I think JJ summed up the duties of a mod pretty well. In general, this forum is pretty open to whatever, and the only rules that get enforced regularly are the ones prohibiting discussions relating to theft of service, and specifically dtv hacking. there are warnings in a number of places. we could put warnings in a millions places, however, that doesn't mean that people will read them, pay attention to them, or follow them. Look at avs, they have stuff all over the place about their rules, and people still break them (sometimes unknowingly, sometimes as a political statement). more messages is not necessarily the answer.

David Bought
10-06-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by JJBliss
Moreover, your less then subtle insinuation that I have less experience then YOU is ludicrous.

At this point I was looking forward to seeing you back this up, but yet again you have failed to meet even my freshly lowered expectations.

Your post was nothing more than a drawn out, garden variety ad hominem attack. In other words, a "flame." Do you consider posting content-free "flames" to be one of your duties as a moderator here?

JJBliss
10-06-2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by David Bought
At this point I was looking forward to seeing you back this up, but yet again you have failed to meet even my freshly lowered expectations.

Your post was nothing more than a drawn out, garden variety ad hominem attack. In other words, a "flame." Do you consider posting content-free "flames" to be one of your duties as a moderator here?

My comments are not ad hominem. I discussed quite clearly why you are not "promoted" to moderator status, since you asked. Your mental health is a very important consideration when monitoring a forum. It is quite clear to me that you suffer from delusions. You are under the impression that you have moderator privilege, when you obviosuly do not.

Also, in response to the section that I quoted regarding why you are not, and will not be a moderator, I referenced your lack of particiption and contribution. Still, not an attack on your character rather an answer to the contentions made.

And since you questioned my experience in comparison to yours, I appropriately pointed out that you had NONE, while I had SOME.

See, no flames. Only facts. My duties as a moderator stand firm.

David Bought
10-06-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by JJBliss
Your mental health is a very important consideration when monitoring a forum. It is quite clear to me that you suffer from delusions.

You are in no position to determine that, and nobody asked you to try.


Also, in response to the section that I quoted regarding why you are not, and will not be a moderator, I referenced your lack of particiption and contribution.

Software releases are not the only way to contribute.


And since you questioned my experience in comparison to yours, I appropriately pointed out that you had NONE, while I had SOME.

Software releases are not the only way to measure experience.

How many months has it been since the last time you saw a root prompt on your Tivo?

JJBliss
10-06-2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by David Bought

How many months has it been since the last time you saw a root prompt on your Tivo?

Been quite a long time.

Nowadays I'm kind of busy dedicating my time to this forum. It has become rather time consuming to clean up the noise generated by your incessant blather. Seeing the root prompt is not the only way to contribute.

Much like mrblack51 alluded to earlier, I have no need to justify my actions, or my qualifications as a moderator to you.

As this discussion continues ad infinitum, I remain a moderator, and YOU, alas, do not.

David Bought
10-06-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by JJBliss
Nowadays I'm kind of busy dedicating my time to this forum. It has become rather time consuming to clean up the noise

You misspelled "add to the noise".


Seeing the root prompt is not the only way to contribute.

Nice attitude for a hacking board.

Just remember, at the end of the day - we don't need you, but you need us. You suckle at our teet because we let you.

BubbleLamp
10-06-2003, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by mrblack51
Lets address these issues systematically:

Thread from the other day (dtv hacking subject) - The rules are clear on this subject. The individual came in assuming that this was a dtv hacking forum, and mad it clear that his intent was to steal service. the thread was named in such a way to imply the contents were something other than that. The thread was renamed to appropriately based on the contents of the thread. Once the thread degraded to a point where pruning and/or editing was not feasible, it was deleted so the original poster could start again with a clean slate. you had some ideas for changes to the forum...thats great. you assume that because you made suggestions that the thread was deleted...thats self centered and short sighted. However, i have no obligation to justify my actions to you.

Riley's thread -

no offence, but are you spending too much time reading conspiracy novels or something. I had nothing to do with that thread. Riley is a mod of the extraction forum, so to imply that the deletion of his post is my doing is baseless to say the least. I had no involvement in that thread, not that I need to justify any of my actions to you.

I think JJ summed up the duties of a mod pretty well. In general, this forum is pretty open to whatever, and the only rules that get enforced regularly are the ones prohibiting discussions relating to theft of service, and specifically dtv hacking. there are warnings in a number of places. we could put warnings in a millions places, however, that doesn't mean that people will read them, pay attention to them, or follow them. Look at avs, they have stuff all over the place about their rules, and people still break them (sometimes unknowingly, sometimes as a political statement). more messages is not necessarily the answer.

I didn't say you modded Riley's thread. Sorry for not being explicit enough for you about that. As for the hacking thread, I had others PM me wondering where it went too. You could have closed the thread just as easily.

mrblack51
10-06-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by BubbleLamp
I didn't say you modded Riley's thread. Sorry for not being explicit enough for you about that. As for the hacking thread, I had others PM me wondering where it went too. You could have closed the thread just as easily.

you're right, i could have. however, as i stated above, i was trying to give the original poster an opportunity to start fresh. you disagree, that's unfortunate. when you are a mod, you can make your decision be something different.

JJBliss
10-06-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by David Bought

Just remember, at the end of the day - we don't need you, but you need us. You suckle at our teet because we let you.


:rolleyes:

Then go away. That will teach all the big bad mods a lesson.

Until then, we will allow you to keep leeching service from the free forum, unless you'd like to start your own forum, pay the service bill and maintain it.

Remember, your ability to post remains at the discretion of mrblack51, KRavEN, Vadim and I. You should be more humble when you're a guest in someone elses house.

David Bought
10-07-2003, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by JJBliss
Then go away. That will teach all the big bad mods a lesson.

The "you" in my sentence was singular.

P.S. I'm not going anywhere.

JJBliss
10-07-2003, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by David Bought
The "you" in my sentence was singular.


As was mine.

flynmoose
10-14-2003, 06:23 PM
Weeeeeeeeeeeee! This is fun!

I took DB's usual advice and Google'd "Ad Hominem"

You guyz is smaaaat! I came looking for Tivo Hacking information and got a Latin lesson to boot! :D

AlphaWolf
10-21-2003, 01:54 AM
David Bought: Who exactly are you? I get the feeling that I have known you before. I have a hunch that I know who you are (or were at least), and that hunch is supported by the fact that both your knowledge of the DSS underground and your 'tivo hacking' skills are by far beyond mine as well as 90% of the other members of this forum. At the least, you didn't just come here strait from TCF like your name and comments would insinuate.

Not to be interpreted as an attack or flame by any means, I just can't shake the thought that I know you from somewhere.

EDIT: then again maybe I should have read a few more of your posts first, as I just noticed that you stated you have been around here for years...

maule
10-22-2003, 02:48 AM
made a mistake looking at this thread. where's the love? think i'll stay in the extraction thread where it's one big group hug.

nsysblh
11-03-2003, 06:42 PM
This is, without a doubt, the best thread in a while. The love is there, although burried a bit.