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View Full Version : MPAA & FCC hates us tivo'ers



awing_pilot
10-17-2003, 08:59 AM
I'm not the "Sky is falling" guy, but the mpaa and fcc are at it again. They are trying to push a law for digitially flagging tv so that one can't record, copy, or manipulate it.

The jist of it is you won't be able to use your vcr, tivo, or yank soundclips or anything of the sort. it will also require extra hardware on all of your tv sets. This is a very bad idea!!!!

I realize equipment will be made to defeat this security, however that is NOT the point. This should not happen in the first place. Please let them ( lawmakers ) know by any means nesacary. Heres a petition you can start at, afterwards hit your senator and congressmen.

http://www.digitalconsumer.org/bcastflag/

AlphaWolf
10-18-2003, 09:52 AM
The FCC chairman called his DVR "gods machine"...I can't see anybody implimenting anything that will prevent DVRs from working. But, whether they impliment this or not, I wont be much concerned...all it will do is make people who don't care about recording things to begin with simply not record them at all.

TheWickedPriest
10-18-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by AlphaWolf
The FCC chairman called his DVR "gods machine"Which is just about the ONLY good thing I can say about him, and it just might be our only hope. But I wouldn't count on it -- back when Jack Valenti was trying to get the VCR outlawed, he testified that he and his family used it himself. He even said that he regarded what he was doing as copyright infringement, though apparently that didn't stop him.

poppagene
10-18-2003, 01:48 PM
The news I heard was that the restrictions would only apply to digital copies of free over-the-air broadcasts. You will still be able to use your VCR. Also, it would not apply to cable or DTV broadcasts since the consumers pay for these broadcasts.

Worf
10-18-2003, 11:21 PM
I somehow doubt it'll "just" apply to those over-the-air broadcasts.

Once content providers get wind of it, they'll want to make sure it always has it on (unless, like in the case of DVD, they have to pay a license fee for every minute the flag is set).

As for DVRs, we can expect them to not record HDTV broadcasts, and simply record them in regular plain-old standard TV format, like now. HDTV TiVo would basically mean it would have to follow these flags. Of course, and I'd expect flags for "Do not pause" "Do not fastforward" etc. (similar to DVD) will also be implemented, making DVRs and VCRs useful only for stadnard resolution TV broadcasts. Oh yeah, they'll force out a new DVD standard on us so that the ever-profitable home video market is still alive.

They want us to consume what they produce when they want us to, and on devices they want us to consume them on. The only real way is if Microsoft implements it, in which case we have a chance of actually breaking it.

AlphaWolf
10-19-2003, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by Worf
I somehow doubt it'll "just" apply to those over-the-air broadcasts.

Once content providers get wind of it, they'll want to make sure it always has it on (unless, like in the case of DVD, they have to pay a license fee for every minute the flag is set).

As for DVRs, we can expect them to not record HDTV broadcasts, and simply record them in regular plain-old standard TV format, like now. HDTV TiVo would basically mean it would have to follow these flags. Of course, and I'd expect flags for "Do not pause" "Do not fastforward" etc. (similar to DVD) will also be implemented, making DVRs and VCRs useful only for stadnard resolution TV broadcasts. Oh yeah, they'll force out a new DVD standard on us so that the ever-profitable home video market is still alive.

They want us to consume what they produce when they want us to, and on devices they want us to consume them on. The only real way is if Microsoft implements it, in which case we have a chance of actually breaking it.

There is not a chance in hell that anybody anywhere ever would make an uncrackable broadcast flag system. Anything is crackable, and something which would be deployed on this large of a scale doesn't stand a chance of lasting a day out in the field without being cracked.

You think directv and dishnet have a hard time preventing people from getting their service for free? Keeping a broadcast flag system uncompromised would be a thousand times harder. In other words, you will be able to DVR your HDTV broadcasts whether the content industry likes it or not.

LazyBastard
10-19-2003, 10:03 PM
Lets think about this logically for a minute...

If something is to be flagged as "no-record", etc., then it is up to whoever is broadcasting it to decide if it should be flagged or not. No satellite company is going to put no-record flags on anything EXCEPT PPV. Reason: Its not profitable. Even if its up to the channel provider to decide to flag, its still not going to happen... Freebee channels (FOX, UPN, etc.,) won't flag no-record because THEY KNOW that their market is largely interested in recording during the day and watching at their leisure - THEIR GOAL IS TO BE WATCHED. Premium channels won't flag because they will loose subscribers.

Don't be concerned with this kind of BS.

awing_pilot
10-20-2003, 09:36 AM
it may be BS and it may be a bunch of crap but you have to remember we are dealing with the technically inept ( AKA management) so we need to squash this issue. plenty of things throughout history have ended up passing because people said "well thats just dumb" and sat there and did nothing. I just posted this in the hopes that we could do something regardless of how stupid it is ( which i believe it is).

awing Out

AlphaWolf
10-20-2003, 09:43 AM
Actualy the public networks, e.g. fox, upn, cbs, abc, nbc, and pax are the ones pressuring the FCC to make these changes.

Just keep this in mind though, the broadcast flag simply says "Don't record me". All you have to do is make your set top box say "I don't give a ****"

LazyBastard
10-20-2003, 09:44 AM
Then it wouldn't last long. They'd find their revenue dropping off to nothing.

AlphaWolf
10-20-2003, 09:47 AM
Granted you shouldn't just passively do nothing, but this is not one of those things where your vote realy counts. When all else fails, civil disobediance goes a long ways.

scanman0
11-05-2003, 11:03 PM
This flag in HDTV really bug's me...See, I ALWAYS record my local network off the air stuff to my computer with a HDTV pci card called MYHDTV (www.digitalconnection.com) and I use my remote for this card just like the tivo to skip commercials, and all the same stuff...

If this goes thru, I could be limited and this sux!
I love my Tivo, but with a HDTV front projector like the hs-10, I can see the real quality of HDTV, and still have the same "Tivo commercial skip", and record features....

This will sux!
:eek:

scanman0
11-05-2003, 11:14 PM
From what If read about this at the AVS forum, it's an HDTV ATSC flag they are talking about....The current low res crap we get drom DTV has nothing to do with this, but the few HDTV channels they offer could carry this flag :(

AlphaWolf
11-05-2003, 11:22 PM
Relaxe, this flag isn't going to do shit. I am sure that many of you here have easily hacked your DVD players so that you can get around the region locks and fast-forward locks that prevent you from skipping the ads on DVDs that you fully paid for. It will more than likely be just as easy to avoid this lockout, as the HDTV streams themselves are in no way shape or form encrypted or proprietary; its just a signal that says "don't record me", much like the DVD simply says "don't play me".

The only thing to complain about is the fact that you have to pay extra for this lockout "feature" when you buy your HDTV equipment, but I guarentee that this mandate will not last long. The average joe consumer isn't even aware of this yet, but sooner or later they will be, and they wont like it.

Buckeyes1995
11-07-2003, 04:56 PM
The FCC officially approved the Broadcast flag for digital TV signals. All equpiment is mandated to support this by July 2005.

Jim

AlphaWolf
11-07-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Buckeyes1995
The FCC officially approved the Broadcast flag for digital TV signals. All equpiment is mandated to support this by July 2005.

Jim

That news is 3 days old :D