TyTool Alpha #8r3, VSplit beta #3.41, DVD output...

[bwperez]

It is about time... I've been saying I will donate for months! No more procrastinating for me!

I have just made my contribution via paypal to joshua@best.com. I personally don't feel the "need for speed" so use the donation for ANYTHING you wish.

Hmmm... I sure hope I got the correct account :-)

Brian

[horwitz]

Originally posted by cullen_simpson
I also wonder if charging for TyTool would put you in a different legal issue if TiVo or DirecTV or MPAA or some other org like those decided to start suing people. Maybe not, maybe pay or free is irrelevant to that issue.
I think this is a very key point. A $20 (highly) suggested donation, for example, would be a great idea. In fact, I'm off to PayPal joshua@best.com right now.

(I also like the idea of "premier" users. What that would entail, exactly, is left as an exercise to the author. :) )

[johnwill]

$20 sounds fine, I just sent it to joshua@best.com, I also hope it's the right address! :eek: If it's not, some stranger is smiling all the way to the bank! :D:D:D

[rpongett]

Originally posted by Hi8
How much would you pay for TyTool ?

1.) $10

2.) $15

3.) $25

4.) $50

5.) $75

6.) $99

7.) >$99 (7)

[jdiner]

Originally posted by FredThompson
You can also run multiple copies of tytool at the same time as long as they aren't trying to work with the same data. One can be extracting while the other is multiplexing...
Yeah I do that all the time. I ahve 1 extract. 1 make keys. 1 edit. And 1 vob the output. Might be over kill but hey that is what works best for me personally.

Just don't touch the tivo with more than 1 of them... At least not yet... :)

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Woah woah waoh. Ok. Sorry. I was on my way to bed when I posted that. Had to get up early for a meeting today. I was in a hurry and my message was not clear. At all apparently.

I am not about to make TyTool a commercial venture. This is a hobby for me. It is relaxing only because I can walk away when ever I want and often do. Something comes up, like the last few days and I just take time off. Having said that anyone that wants to donate to the cause is free to do so and I really would appriciate it. :)

As I said I was not clear. The library I was pointed to has no per-copy distribution costs. Just a $200 up front charge. But it is limited in that it is a binary library and not something I can re-compile elsewhere. To get it for other OS platforms like linux will be another $200.

The $200 is just way more than I have right now. So I personally am not buying it just to help others out.

My question was supposed to read something much more along the lines of "what would you contribute to purchasing a liscence..." I don't even know if this will work for what we are doing.

Speed is not the only reason to change to this library. It also comes with a built-in encoder and that is nice. No more temp files needed. Potentially easier menu construction etc...

I have not had time to dig into this thing and figure out what it can and can't do. I have a 30-day eval version and I will be doing so at some point soon but it is not done yet.

The history here: I asked once before if people would pay for a frame-accurate editor. I had a few things figured out then. And the answer was a resounding no. So I tabled it for a few months. I am working it over now because I figured some great stuff out and I had a few more clever ideas.

I asked this question this way because it helped me clear up what to even bother doing. If no one will help with the cost of the lib then it is a moot point and I won't be doing anything with it. If it works nicely and people will help me get the thing then it is worth looking into.

Beyond that... I wasn't demanding anything.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

And I should say that I have not stopped doing what I was doing. Once I decided to get off the speed issue and get back onto what is going on many things have been completed.

The editing changes in GopEditor are complete. A few small things need to be enhanced like searching for the tystream if it is not what and where we expected.

All that remains now is the final cleanup of the frame-accurate code in the TyTool/VSplit side of things. Then it is time for release.

--jdiner

[drnull]

carry the one...

That's only 10 people. I think 10 people will probably donate, if you asked for it, and said you needed it to pay for this library. I think what people don't want to do, is BUY tytools from you, or worry about buying upgrades when they come around, or worry about legal issues, etc, etc.

I plan on donating myself, but like bwperez, I just never got around to it. This renewed donation'ing spirit has got me moved, though. :-)

There. Done. But I'm not buying tytool, or trying to convince you to use any library or any such nonsense.

Just 9 more people to go, though...

[cobbmtn1]

Thanks Josh for all your hard work in the past and in the future. I just sent a $20 donation through Paypal.

Tytool rocks.

Cobbmtn1

[stealthdave]

Josh,

I know that you've mentioned before that libavcodec (ffmpeg) is larger and more spidered than you would want or need, but it could be pared down by removing the parts that you don't need, i.e. any formats other than mpeg2. Granted, that would probably entail going in and editing the configure/Makefile files and changing what gets compiled which would slow down creating the release on one end and could potentially cause problems with dependencies not being compiled in, but would create a smaller binary, improve the library (being able to disable unwanted codecs would be a Good Thing(TM) for FFMpeg, IMO), and save you $200. :) Or you could just use a huge library, but a smaller library does (in theory) have fewer points of failure.

Another reason that I would advocate ffmpeg, is cross-platform compatibility. Yes, I know that TyTool is a Windows-only program... for now. :) But I still keep hope that some day, I will be able to fire up TyTool on my Linux box without WINE (http://winehq.com), or even on my beloved iBook! Ah... perchance to dream. :) And if a proprietary library is used, then any hopes for a cross-platform TyTool would be dashed. :(

Anyhow, that's my two cents. About all I can afford, these days.

- Stealth Dave

[eff20see]

This is my first post but I've been using this site off and on for a couple of years to get me through my tivo hacking difficulties. First of all I'd like to thank everybody here (esp. jdiner) who's developed all these great tools and spent so much time helping everybody out.

The search tool has been very useful to me, but I've run into a problem that has me banging my head on the table. I have a Sony T60 which until earlier this week was running the standard 40GB A drive and an extra 80GB B drive. This setup has been running fine for more than a year, but recently the drive noise has become unbearable (the tivo lives in my bedroom) so I swapped the two drives for a single 120GB seagate drive. I'm amazed at how silent the new drive is.

Before I dismantled those drives, I downloaded a few college football games from my Tivo to one of my desktop computers. A few days ago I loaded up the .ty file in TyTool 8r3 and tried to make a keyfile. After a few minutes, TyTool crashed, showing these messages on the info panel.

20100.........20200.........20300.........20400........Found an OOB packet... The Audio Diff is: 00:00:05.712
Is it in sequence??? It is OFF by exactly 238.000000 frames.
Nope... Not in sequence... Skipping it...


PTS Reset Detected... Correction in progress...
Found an OOB packet... The Audio Diff is: 08:54:52.159
Is it in sequence??? It is OFF by exactly 1337173.291667 frames.
Nope... Not in sequence... Skipping it...

Tennessee @ Miami-Tennessee at Miami.ty: looping total = 2560 mbytes (153 seconds)

The keyfile that was generated only covered the first 2 hours and 12 minutes of the file (the entire recording was 4.5hours).

Since getting this error, I reinstalled the drives in the Tivo and have tried numerous other things, including extracting .ty files with mfs_ftp and vserver/mplayer, all with the same results. Frustrated, I extracted the files into the standard 512MB individual chunk size using vserver/mplayer. I can generate keyfiles for all of them except for the 6th one, which also crashes tytool.

Also, even if i successfully process that 6th .ty file, I'm not sure how I can stitch them all back together into a single football game for my dvd again (yes, I searched), so that may be a deadend path anyhow.

Ideas?

[jdiner]

There is something untoward going on in that segment of the file. I can't guess at what it is without being able to see it. If you can use TyFileSplit to extract that problem segment I can take a look at it.

TyTool works well until things get damaged in certain ways. Then there is no method for recovery in place. They just spiral down until it explodes.

--jdiner

[eastwind]

Originally posted by eff20see

Also, even if i successfully process that 6th .ty file, I'm not sure how I can stitch them all back together into a single football game for my dvd again (yes, I searched), so that may be a deadend path anyhow.

Ideas?

You can do what you want without stitching them back together. Just need to make a DVD with each of the parts in order and make it so it doesn't come back to the menu each time. Easier to do with another tool, but possible (I'm pretty sure) with DVDAuthor by editing the make.bat file to reflect exactly what you want. Or you can IFOEdit the .IFO file for each VTS to make it play the next VTS instead of returning to the VTSM (video title set manager?).

ew

[jdiner]

Originally posted by eff20see

Also, even if i successfully process that 6th .ty file, I'm not sure how I can stitch them all back together into a single football game for my dvd again (yes, I searched), so that may be a deadend path anyhow.

Ideas?
Just "join" them with anything and then process with TyTool. But this will not solve the problem of why it is crashing. I need to fix something. No idea what until I get it. If there is no "game" during part 6 then you can do any number of things. But I would really like to get that small segment of part 6 needed to show the problem so that it can get fixed and just not "happen" anymore for you or anyone else.

--jdiner

[Toddler]

Originally posted by jdiner

Speed is not the only reason to change to this library. It also comes with a built-in encoder and that is nice.If using this new library means that your MPEGs will be standard, I would be highly motivated to help you acquire it.

[FredThompson]

@Toddler, Only the edited GOPs will be re-encoded.

[Toddler]

Yeah I know, but it doesn't have to be that way...just wishin' and a prayin'.

[drnull]

I may not understand this all fully, but I thought that he "simply" (I know, I know... it's not simple!) took the mpeg stream provided from the tivo and stuck that into a .mpg file. If he used this commercial library for the ENTIRE stream, then we DirecTiVo'ers wouldn't have the benefit of excellent compression on our streams.

[andy_ho]

um...I think he will only re-encode the GOP that has been edited by the frame editor in order to remove the commercial frames from it, not the entire stream. The commercial library would just be used when frame editing a GOP, or re-encode a GOP after it has been frame edited.

It wouldn't make sense to re-encode the entire stream. For one time, there would be a major quality loss, and for another, do you know how long it will take to re-encode the entire stream? One hour of stream will probably take more than 2 hours to re-encode.

[drnull]

I know, I was just replying to toddler that it did have to be that way...

[jdiner]

Originally posted by Toddler
Yeah I know, but it doesn't have to be that way...just wishin' and a prayin'.
The non-standard mpegs has to do with what I chose way back when to do with the data. I can be fixed. Technically it was just never released. Well it is an 80% fix. There is 1 semi-major piece left to redo. The library won't help with that. It will help with decoding and re-encoding the video inside of the thing. That is all.

Look I know some people want to use things with other tools. I have already said I will work on that once I get done the pieces and parts that I actually want for myself. Try a bit of patience...

--jdiner

[jdiner]

I am re-encoding the least possible data for making all of this stuff work. I have no desire to make a full transcoder out of this stuff. I don't want to give up the quality or take that kind of time.

There are other ways to do full transcoding. Simple and straight forward using existing technologies. Split with TyTool. Fill in the audio gaps. Frame server using either VirtualDubMPG2 or DVD2AVI, although use the newest version from Donald Graft, and be done with it. Not a painless procedure but darn effective.

--jdiner

[andy_ho]

Josh,

have you compared the differences between the quality and the compression of the commercial mpeg library with the one that is currently implemented? For example, does the commercial library produces better quality at a higher compression than the current one? or is it about the same?

[johnwill]

If I could have a vote, I'd just let the poor guy finish the program on his own schedule! :rolleyes: I'm perfectly happy to wait for the end result, if it's anything like what we've seen so far, it'll be very neat. :)

[snoopy]

Originally posted by johnwill
If I could have a vote, I'd just let the poor guy finish the program on his own schedule! :rolleyes: I'm perfectly happy to wait for the end result, if it's anything like what we've seen so far, it'll be very neat. :) Amen!

[jdiner]

As stated right here just a little while ago. I have not had time to do more than download the commercial library. I haven't even unpacked it.

More info will follow as I have it. But work has had me so busy for the last little while that I haven't changed a line of source in the tools since early Tuesday morning.

--jdiner

[Toddler]

Originally posted by jdiner
The non-standard mpegs has to do with what I chose way back when to do with the data. I can be fixed. Technically it was just never released. Well it is an 80% fix. There is 1 semi-major piece left to redo. The library won't help with that. It will help with decoding and re-encoding the video inside of the thing. That is all.

Look I know some people want to use things with other tools. I have already said I will work on that once I get done the pieces and parts that I actually want for myself. Try a bit of patience...

--jdiner Hey, I'm not pushing you. I've got my workaround in place and I can wait as long as it takes. I was just answering your question.

The simple truth is that I would kick in a good chunk for that lib if it would make TyTool more useful for me, but based on your reply, it won't. TyTool is just my method of downloading ty files and that's about it. Until your MPEG output is fixed, I will still have to follow a workaround and therefore the enhancements you're working on will never affect me.

What I wrote wasn't yet another a request or any sign of impatience on my part. It was just a straightforward answer to your question.

[Toddler]

Originally posted by snoopy
Amen! Can't wait to become a Diamond Member?

You just restated what he said. Hey, if it helps to see.... (j/k)

[snoopy]

I deserved that one.

[jdiner]

Originally posted by Toddler
Hey, I'm not pushing you. I've got my workaround in place and I can wait as long as it takes. I was just answering your question.

The simple truth is that I would kick in a good chunk for that lib if it would make TyTool more useful for me, but based on your reply, it won't. TyTool is just my method of downloading ty files and that's about it. Until your MPEG output is fixed, I will still have to follow a workaround and therefore the enhancements you're working on will never affect me.

What I wrote wasn't yet another a request or any sign of impatience on my part. It was just a straightforward answer to your question.
The fix for the mpeg output takes 2 things at this point... uncommenting a single #define and altering about 30 lines of code elsewhere.

That fix will come out sometime soon.

What I intend the library for, should it work for that, is to do better encoding/decoding. But I have to get a chance to look through it first. So that part won't help you but the rest will.

--jdiner

[williamnporter]

Hi

Great tools, love them.

I have made serveral DVD's without a problem. (7r7)

The last one (7r10) looked great when I previewed it in PowerDVD, but when I watched it on the DVD both the video and sound were playing about twice as fast (smooth and squeaky.)

I apologize if this has been asked and answered I went through the forums but couldn't find an answer.

Thanks

[horwitz]

Originally posted by williamnporter
Hi

Great tools, love them.

I have made serveral DVD's without a problem. (7r7)

The last one (7r10) looked great when I previewed it in PowerDVD, but when I watched it on the DVD both the video and sound were playing about twice as fast (smooth and squeaky.)

I apologize if this has been asked and answered I went through the forums but couldn't find an answer.

Thanks
Have you tried 8r3? (I have no idea if this will fix your problem, but it certainly is a newer version than 7r10.)

[williamnporter]

I did not try 8r3, I honestly don't think this problem is with tytools but I want to make sure.

It seems odd that it would work great with PowerDVD (HD Mode) but not on the DVD.

[FredThompson]

upgrade, redo the process, test, then ask again if the problem continues.

[jdiner]

Originally posted by williamnporter

I have made serveral DVD's without a problem. (7r7)

The last one (7r10) looked great when I previewed it in PowerDVD, but when I watched it on the DVD both the video and sound were playing about twice as fast (smooth and squeaky.)

I apologize if this has been asked and answered I went through the forums but couldn't find an answer.


Search again it is there. It is in this thread about 3 pages back.

You have an SA tivo, ether US or UK, and the audio is not being transcoded to the 48khz freq setting so that things are correct for the dvd...

The other possibility is that you have a DTivo of whatever flavour and are puposely transcoding into the VCD/SVCD datarate of 44.1khz for the freq. This is just as bad as the 32k that comes from a Tivo.

But since you mention twice as fast I would guess you have as SATivo.

Change to transcode into 160@48k or 192@48k and things will play perfectly for you.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Well crap. Been trying to polish things and I am at a loss on something. So I will ask for some advice. Right now I need to display more information. When you hit a cut that has a frame accurate portion to it. I wanted to put in the same line as the rest of the info in the listbox within GopEditor. But the font either has to be freakin tiny or I have to make it wider. about 40% wider than it was. Which makes it look ugly with the controls below it not widened. But they look ugly that much wider. Catch-22.

So then I got to thinking about putting a new entry directly below the listbox that when an edit is selected would show the fact that there was a start or edit frame accurate cut.

The real problem is the interface wasn't designed with this in mind. Unfortunately I think both options are a bit ugly. But right now I am leaning toward a new entry on the display rather than a wider format.

Here is a simple screen cap that shows how much wider it would have to be to make it fit and still have everything readible.

Thoughts on layout?

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Also if I do add more display options. Do you want it below what was there, as it kind of went top to bottom, so that controls don't move? Or put it right below the listbox so that it is physically grouped together?

--jdiner

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by jdiner
Well crap. Been trying to polish things and I am at a loss on something. So I will ask for some advice. Right now I need to display more information. When you hit a cut that has a frame accurate portion to it. I wanted to put in the same line as the rest of the info in the listbox within GopEditor. But the font either has to be freakin tiny or I have to make it wider. about 40% wider than it was. Which makes it look ugly with the controls below it not widened. But they look ugly that much wider. Catch-22.I'm not sure I follow. Can you post a screencap with data?So then I got to thinking about putting a new entry directly below the listbox that when an edit is selected would show the fact that there was a start or edit frame accurate cut.use color in the listbox?Also if I do add more display options. Do you want it below what was there, as it kind of went top to bottom, so that controls don't move? Or put it right below the listbox so that it is physically grouped together?Do you mean additional data wrt frame-accurate cuts would move the location of the "standard" controls? Uh, not such a good idea. Human eyes are drawn to motion. It would be distracting, I think.

[andy_ho]

Josh,

How about removing some info from the listbox so that it won't need to be that wide? For example, I think most people do edit on things that are less than an hour, and so instead of displaying 00:02:50.034, why not display only 02:50.034(or maybe display 002:50.034)? The 00:02:50.034 will still be in the cut file though. Also, when you click or highlight the segment that you cut, it will display 00:02:50.034 in case people need it.

So, what kind of info would be displayed about the frame edit part?

Another idea would be to put a checkbox indicating that this cut has been edited by frame editor. For example, on the listbox,
regular: 00:02:50.034 00:02:50.034
new: 00:02:50.034 00:02:50.034 X
you can either just put X or maybe f for frame edit, or a checkbox. Maybe when you highlight that cut, it would display the frame edit info

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by andy_ho
I think most people do edit on things that are less than an hour Then you can forget about

Sports
Performing arts
Movies
Sequential blocks because you don't trust DirecTV's timing to be perfect
90-minute shows
show marathons

I'm a big proponent of color. Your suggestion to use a checkmark would work but requires more space. One of the issues to keep in mind is that it's a good design goal to keep the edit window as close to a TV-friendly resolution as possible so people using TV-out for their editing aren't forced to scroll.

[andy_ho]

Originally posted by FredThompson
Then you can forget about

Sports
Performing arts
Movies
Sequential blocks because you don't trust DirecTV's timing to be perfect
90-minute shows
show marathons

I'm a big proponent of color. Your suggestion to use a checkmark would work but requires more space. One of the issues to keep in mind is that it's a good design goal to keep the edit window as close to a TV-friendly resolution as possible so people using TV-out for their editing aren't forced to scroll.


Note: I didn't say it it won't save the 00:02:50.034 into the .cut file. All I said was it won't display it like that. It will only display 02:50.034(or maybe 002:50.034)

90 minutes show is no problem, because it can display up to 99 minutes
Movies? are you talking about the one with commercial or without? if it's without, that's no problem too because you don't need to see the info since you know you have to do one cut at the beginning and one at the end. The end cut won't display the full info, but it's not really that necessary.

About Marathons, and others that you've listed, you got me there. All I said was that MOST people would be doing more editing with the less than 60 minutes show. I should've said less than 99 minutes cuz like you said, record longer so that won't miss anything at the begining or ending.

About the checkmark, it doesn't require that much spacing...maybe 2 extra char...one for space, and then one for the checkmark, f char, X or whatever. It won't widen that much.

What do you mean when you said "I'm a big proponent of color"?

If you wanted to keep the window size the same, then use both the checkmark and the reduction of the timecode together. For example:
original: 00:02:50.034 00:02:50.034
new: 0:02:50.034 0:02:50.034 X

This takes care of the marathon and other stuff because it can show up to 9 hours & 59 minutes. How about that?

[FredThompson]

Well, I flat out don't agree with you that shortening the counter display is a good idea and, frankly, I can't think of a good reason to shorten it.

Also, I'm personally leery of statements that purport to summarize what some indeterminate "majority" does or doesn't do, especially in an environment like this one where it's almost impossible to gather that kind of information. The danger in those types of statements is they are frequently used to attempt to "authorize" someone's own opinion by assuming an aura of legitimacy.

Having said that, it's very obvious that's NOT what you were doing. You're truly proposing ideas based on your creativity, enthusiasm and interest.

(I said that so you'd understand I wasn't coming down hard on you ;) )

I meant that color can frequently communicate a lot of things. You are correct that adding 2 characters would show an either-or status. Wouldn't a colored background for the cuts which are frame accurate also show that without requiring extra space? Done properly, it wouldn't be intrusive and allows the display to stay the same. I've been kicking this idea around for quite a while and have come to the conclusion that color could be used to communicate information as long as it isn't over-used and the primary information is still black, meaning, color should only be used as a background, not a foreground element. Is the numbers were different colors, it would be quite a bit harder to quickly scan a list. Our brains don't handle that as well as ignoring the background to focus attention on the foreground.

It sure would be nice if the interface doesn't get too big or cluttered to be used on a composite TV-out display.

[andy_ho]

Perhaps you did not read carefully what I said(or perhaps it's my fault cuz I modified my post quite a bit), I said "I think most people do edit on things that are less than an hour." It is not a summary of what people do. It is my opinion, which is why I had "I think" in front of it. Sorry I mention it in the first place.

Anyway, I thought about the color at the begining, but the problem is that there's going to be extra two colors that you have to choose. One is the regular color, and one is the highlighted one. Also, I think Josh wanted to display some other extra info, which is why I suggested shortening the field so it won't be as wide.

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by andy_ho
Perhaps you did not read carefully what I said(or perhaps it's my fault cuz I modified my post quite a bit), I said "I think most people do edit on things that are less than an hour." It is not a summary of what people do. It is my opinion, which is why I had "I think" in front of it.I did read it. I disagree with the premise very strongly. There's no way to validate the statement and your proposal to restrict the displayed information was based on it. Sorry I mention it in the first place.Really? Why?! You're thinking creatively and making positive suggestions. That's good. Josh asked for ideas and it's ultimately his call. The recent posts have turned into something of a brainstorm session. You did the right thing. You had an inspiration and threw the idea into the arena. Good for you, a lot of people don't do that.

You only need color to designate the frame-accurate points. GOP points would stay the same. If color is used, it shouldn't be garish or it would distract. I thought about inverse then realized that wouldn't work at all.

[gobsmack]

While Fred and Andy debate the merits of color and the length of tivo programs we edit <grin> might I .renew (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=123831&highlight=red#post123831) a suggestion.

Once I have made a cut and it is in the list, I rarely refer back to it.

However, when editing a long (3 - 4 hours) sports program that has commercials randomly throughout, it is possible to get a bit lost in your edits or zone out .

So, the list is secondary to the mental notes I make:
- I am scanning for the beginning of stuff to cut
- I found the beginning of said stuff and am now scanning for the end
- I found the end of something to cut and now have to go backwards to find the start (an oops)

I find myself in these three "modes" every time I edit. They correspond nicely to three color indicators:
- Green: you have no active edit points
- Yellow: you have a beginning point defined and are now looking for an end
- Red: you have defined an end point but no beginning (hello?) so be careful

Maybe it is just me, but after editing commercials out of 30+ 4.5 hour baseball games (with lots of short and random commercial breaks), I like this use of color a lot.

I had said before that these colors would ideally display in a little area of the UI. Strike that: the real estate is already at a premium. Instead, just change the color of the the text already in the UI (start point/end point).

I dunno if anyone else might like this, as others edit shorter and less commercial-ridden stuff, but I thought it would improve the mental note taking and either make editing easier or less time consuming. YMMV

[newbie]

Most movies are more than an hour. Mini-series frequently have epsisodes longer than an hour. Sometimes regular shows have 90 and 120 minute episodes.

I think most people do at least some editing with shows more than an hour.



Originally posted by andy_ho
Perhaps you did not read carefully what I said(or perhaps it's my fault cuz I modified my post quite a bit), I said "I think most people do edit on things that are less than an hour."

[jdiner]

Originally posted by FredThompson
I'm not sure I follow. Can you post a screencap with data?
Ummm Sure. I posted it as I did because I was trying to show how much wider it would make everything.

use color in the listbox?
Not in a standard listbox and that is what I am using I could probably build something that would show it in this case. A listbox control would not be that hard to construct. Color would add a nice easily recognized signal that there was more there without needing to be resized. I like that...


Do you mean additional data wrt frame-accurate cuts would move the location of the "standard" controls? Uh, not such a good idea. Human eyes are drawn to motion. It would be distracting, I think.
If I understand what you are saying then no. Not a real-time dynamic shift. A permanent slide down 2 new labels and 2 new smaller text fields on the same line.

But people get used to where things are located. Moving them will cause issues for some people.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Originally posted by andy_ho
Josh,

How about removing some info from the listbox so that it won't need to be that wide? For example, I think most people do edit on things that are less than an hour, and so instead of displaying 00:02:50.034, why not display only 02:50.034(or maybe display 002:50.034)? The 00:02:50.034 will still be in the cut file though. Also, when you click or highlight the segment that you cut, it will display 00:02:50.034 in case people need it.

I thought about reducing that. But I personally grab 1:04 for every 1 hour show to make sure I get all lead in and all lead-out. Almost everything I record is a 1 hour show. Anyone doing movies, and there are a ton here that do, go from 1:30 or so to 2:15. Dropping out the hour field is not the answer.

Maybe what would help would be more caps:

1- One that has the smaller font showing where things would fit.
2- One that has the wider window populated.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

When I designed the current interface to GopEditor I wanted a few things to be clear and easy. I

I wanted to be able to see how many cuts there were, where they were in the stream etc...

I actually use that list as I go. I look a the times between cuts to make sure it is not to large or to small, sanity checks that I don't have 30 minutes between commercials, sanity checks that from standard broadcast TV I have 6 commercial cuts including lead-in and lead-out, etc... But I may be alone in this. Others may not use it for that purpose.

Next I use it for editing/tweaking. If I make a disk and find that I have 20meg to much for it to fit, happens more than I can say... I got back and widen a few cuts a bit. Most normally to get rid of the "repated intro" between the start of the show and the first commercial. (Think the enterprise music and actor introduction block. That is what I cut. It never changes so 1 per disk is enough for me...) And thus I save enough room to put more ep's on a single disk.

So I don't want to lose that information. I thought about a total format change. Drop the milliseconds from the display of both start and end. That gets me enough room for everything I need. BUT... I for one am used to reading the timestamps in that format. If anyone else is using them as I do then they would be too. And so changing it will needlessly cause people issues.

What I am planning to add right now is +### to the display. So the current format looks like:

00:12:50.934 00:15:42.018

And the new format would be:

00:12:50.934 00:15:42.018
00:12:50.934+4 00:15:42.018
00:12:50.934 00:15:42.018+9

Trying to show where a frame accurate cut took place and how much of the GOP you are keeping/using.

But a decent question to as is this even valuable. The number of frames doesn't really matter even to me. Well later for cutting I need to know but on the display does it help to know you kept 9 frames or only 4?

Which is why the color idea appears. Make it "red" if there is a frame accurate component. Just so you know it has one.

Or perhaps, does it even matter if we signal where it occured? I think it does, but perhaps I am alone in that.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Alright. I figured out how to do a colored string in the listbox. I just have to make it owner drawn rather than automatic. A bit more code but not bad really.

However I am not ready to use it yet. And I still think getting more information in there would be good.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Here is GopCap2.jpg. This screencap shows what the font size has to be reduced to in order to see the extra "frame accurate" portion.

Using the font in this size there is no need to resize any of the controls.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Here is GopCap3.jpg.

This screencap shows what the text with the new addition and the same old standard fontsize looks like. Using this one the window would need to be resized to be 60 pixels wider than it has been in the past. Anyone working in 640x480 would be pretty seriously out of luck.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Oh. And 1 quick note. The +00 would not be there all of the time. It would appear only if there was a real value there.

I think this would help things stand out when a frame accurate edit was present. You might see only 1 in some streams, none in others, and one on every block for a "bad" stream where a gop was just never close enough.

EDIT: Going to fast. More info above.

--jdiner

[cagey]

Since I have started to make DVDs using this great program, my only serious problem has been my inability to creat chapter points. I made a DVD for my kids with 3 movies on it. I have tried to play it on a Panasonic A120, Pioneer DV-260-s, and WinDVD, all of them have one chapter per movie. When I advance the chapter, I move to the next movie. I have selected the option to make chapter points every 5 minutes, but it didn't work.

Is there anyway to figure out what I am doing wrong? From what I have read, some people have this issue and a lot of others don't.

Is there anything I can check or edit to make sure the chapter points are correct?

Thanks for any help.

[ronnythunder]

i like it, josh (the *3 version). i don't think it's wrong at all to draw a line in the sand with the 640x480 thing; come on, if a user can't at least do 800x600, they're doing the wrong hobby.

i say go with what ya got.

ronny

[jdiner]

Originally posted by cagey
Since I have started to make DVDs using this great program, my only serious problem has been my inability to creat chapter points. I made a DVD for my kids with 3 movies on it. I have tried to play it on a Panasonic A120, Pioneer DV-260-s, and WinDVD, all of them have one chapter per movie. When I advance the chapter, I move to the next movie. I have selected the option to make chapter points every 5 minutes, but it didn't work.

Is there anyway to figure out what I am doing wrong? From what I have read, some people have this issue and a lot of others don't.

Is there anything I can check or edit to make sure the chapter points are correct?

Thanks for any help.
It sounds like you lost, moved, deleted the <file>.chp file. This file is where information about how and where to put chapters is stored.

I can verify this if you posted the make.bat file from the dvd output directory.

--jdiner

[cagey]

Originally posted by jdiner
It sounds like you lost, moved, deleted the <file>.chp file. This file is where information about how and where to put chapters is stored.

I can verify this if you posted the make.bat file from the dvd output directory.

--jdiner

Hopefully this is the correct file.

[jdiner]

Yep.

That file could not be found. Don't delete or move anything at all until you are completely done. And it should work.

--jdiner

[andy_ho]

Originally posted by jdiner
I actually use that list as I go. I look a the times between cuts to make sure it is not to large or to small, sanity checks that I don't have 30 minutes between commercials, sanity checks that from standard broadcast TV I have 6 commercial cuts including lead-in and lead-out, etc... But I may be alone in this. Others may not use it for that purpose.
--jdiner

I myself do this as well. Most of the series shows have a commercial every 10 minutes or less. I also check the cut to make sure that it's less than 4 minutes because commercial isn't usually longer than that, and to make sure that I didn't delete some part of the show by accident.

About the frame info that would be displayed as +000, would there be anywhere that tell you how many frames a total there are in that GOP? I think in order to make how many frame you're going to keep useful, you also need the total # of frames.

[cagey]

Originally posted by jdiner
Yep.

That file could not be found. Don't delete or move anything at all until you are completely done. And it should work.

--jdiner

But I didnt' do anything to the file. In tytool where it asks where to output the dvd, I directed it to a temp folder and just let it run. When I made the dvd with Nero and other programs, I just direct those programs to the "VIDEO_TS" directory. So I don't know what I could have done to that file.

[jdiner]

Originally posted by andy_ho

About the frame info that would be displayed as +000, would there be anywhere that tell you how many frames a total there are in that GOP? I think in order to make how many frame you're going to keep useful, you also need the total # of frames.
No, I can't think of a way to show both. There just isn't enough room. Nor flexiblity. I can't smash just the font of part of it. I have to do it with for the whole thing.

The longest GOP I have ever seen was 140 odd frames. So if you cut at 100 of 140 then I need 7 characters to show it. Reguardless of what I use to delinate it would be ###/### and that is almost as much as the full timestamp itself.

But I agree after a fashion. The number of frames where a frame accurate cut takes place means nothing really, it is just informational. Really it is just a place keeper. A way of signalling that something has happened.

However the same could be said of the timestamps in the cut list. They can't be used elsewhere etc... So while I want more than "it happened here". I am not sure how to do that.

Then I have to keep in mind that I need information from all of this for the cutting of things within Vsplit/TyTool.

--jdiner

[andy_ho]

Originally posted by jdiner
No, I can't think of a way to show both. There just isn't enough room. Nor flexiblity. I can't smash just the font of part of it. I have to do it with for the whole thing.
--jdiner
Another idea would be to put it into 2 lines. I know you already mentioned it earlier, but I think you meant separate the frame into one line, and timestamp into another. How about:
original: 00:02:50.034 00:05:50.034
new:
00:02:50.034+34/90
00:05:50.034+20/70

It might also make it easier to compare the start and end cut.

Also, are there any plan to show cutting from middle GOP to end(show starts ends at the middle), or from begining GOP to middle(show starts at the middle). Sometimes you might mistakenly delete the show instead of the commercial.

About the frame editor. Are you going to put the total # of frames in frm: section like you do for the GOP editor?

[FredThompson]

Regarding color, if the area behind the text in the listbox is colored, the text doesn't have to be smaller nor does would it require more columns. During the "sanity check" of looking for missed commercials, does the nature of the edit or the particular frame at which a cut happens really matter? Probably not. If the text is all black, it's far easier to scan the text itself and "tune out" colored backgrounds. Also, what is the true value of knowing the frame number where the cut happens? Why increase the complexity of the display of an ap which is supposed to be optimized for speed by adding interesting but fairly useless information, cluttering it up?

Regarding 640x480 vs. 800x600, the benefit of 640x480 is the ability to discern text when it's pumped through a TV. To be very direct, the reason I'm promoting these ideas is because the computer I have which services the TiVos is hooked to my TV via s-video and uses a wireless keyboard and mouse. Maybe I'm the only person who does this. At 800x600, the text becomes quite squished; 6, 8 and 0 all start to look very similar...

In any event, the more compact the window, the better it is able to be viewed on a TV. It's not a function of the computer's ability to generate video resolution, it's a function of the cost and abilities of the display device. If the window becomes too dense with information, it will quickly become troublesome for display on anything other than a computer monitor or HDTV. The cost difference between a standard tube TV and TV-out card vs. a 1080i monitor and video card is quite significant. Placing a computer and monitor right at the living room seating makes it more of a work station, not a relaxation area.

[andy_ho]

Fred,

I don't think you would be affected much by the widening of the screen. Here's why: You said that it's not important to see if the frame has been edited or not. Well, look at the GOP cap 3.jpg
...the boundary for the 640x480 is where the button ends(] button). If you look at the timecode: 00:02:18.542+00, only 42+00 get cut off, which isn't that much of a useful info.

Of course, I'm assuming that you can adjust the position of the window so that only the extra widening that Josh plan to do is going to get cut off.

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by FredThompson
Regarding 640x480 vs. 800x600, the benefit of 640x480 is the ability to discern text when it's pumped through a TV. To be very direct, the reason I'm promoting these ideas is because the computer I have which services the TiVos is hooked to my TV via s-video and uses a wireless keyboard and mouse. Maybe I'm the only person who does this. At 800x600, the text becomes quite squished; 6, 8 and 0 all start to look very similar...


I hate to say this Fred, but I think you are in a serious minority with the 640x480 mode. Heck, even my 78 year old Mom uses 800x600. :D

[FredThompson]

I understand what you're saying but it doesn't work that way. TV-out display cards resize the entire display and frequently add letterboxing. Therefore, the lower the screen resolution, the greater the chance of legibility. I've only used ATi cards and don't have full familiarity with all the various other makes and models of cards. The point is increasing the complexity of the interface, while potentially interesting, can make it harder to use due to clutter and/or create problem for non-monitor use. If a TV could do 1024x768 and be discernable at 15-20 feet or so, this wouldn't be an issue. Currently, the cost of that is quite a bit on the high end, at least for me.

I HATE the idea of jamming a + and more numbers right next to the timecode. While it is a clever use of space, the human factor aspect is the timecode becomes a lot harder to discern, especially in a speedy manner. If every word in this post were capitalized and the spaces removed, you could read it but it would be more difficult. Additionally, I can see no true value in knowing, at this display level, the frame number at which a cut happens nor the GOP size.

All that needs to be displayed is the type of cut (GOP vs. frame) because editing within the GOP happens with a different display, correct?

An imperfect analogy is the difference between rough cuts and fine sanding. If you're doing rough cuts on wood or stone or whatever to get rid of large chunks of unwanted material, it would be counterproductive to clutter up the surface with all kinds of notes and marks about the finishing steps. Another example might be the difference between the index at the front of a book and the more detailed one at the back of the book.

Again, these are comments about the idea only and are intended to focus on the design goal of speed and simplicity without sacrificing capability.

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
I hate to say this Fred, but I think you are in a serious minority with the 640x480 mode. Heck, even my 78 year old Mom uses 800x600. :D You're probably thinking about computer monitors, not TVs. My monitor settings are 1024x768.

TV display will become more important as computers are integrated more into A/V systems. Done properly, they don't look like beige blocks and monitor with all those cables showing. IOW, the living room looks like a living room, not an office or techie's paradise.

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by FredThompson
I understand what you're saying but it doesn't work that way. TV-out display cards resize the entire display and frequently add letterboxing. Therefore, the lower the screen resolution, the greater the chance of legibility. I've only used ATi cards and don't have full familiarity with all the various other makes and models of cards. The point is increasing the complexity of the interface, while potentially interesting, can make it harder to use due to clutter and/or create problem for non-monitor use. If a TV could do 1024x768 and be discernable at 15-20 feet or so, this wouldn't be an issue. Currently, the cost of that is quite a bit on the high end, at least for me.

I HATE the idea of jamming a + and more numbers right next to the timecode. While it is a clever use of space, the human factor aspect is the timecode becomes a lot harder to discern, especially in a speedy manner. If every word in this post were capitalized and the spaces removed, you could read it but it would be more difficult. Additionally, I can see no true value in knowing, at this display level, the frame number at which a cut happens nor the GOP size.

All that needs to be displayed is the type of cut (GOP vs. frame) because editing within the GOP happens with a different display, correct?

An imperfect analogy is the difference between rough cuts and fine sanding. If you're doing rough cuts on wood or stone or whatever to get rid of large chunks of unwanted material, it would be counterproductive to clutter up the surface with all kinds of notes and marks about the finishing steps. Another example might be the difference between the index at the front of a book and the more detailed one at the back of the book.

Again, these are comments about the idea only and are intended to focus on the design goal of speed and simplicity without sacrificing capability.

But is the goal to make it useable for 90%+ of the installations, or the sub 10%? How many folks are using their TV as the display device for their PC (when not watching a stream)? I'm saying you put yourself in a position to sacrifice by using the TV, and must be willing to accept the shortcomings of that choice. Everything is a compromise. ;)

[FredThompson]

Hang on a sec, I'm working on a screen grab to explain. In the meantime, take a look at your 90% vs. 10% comment. That's not the case. It's 100% vs. 90% and the 90% would have a more cumbersome interface. I'll explain shortly.

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by FredThompson
Hang on a sec, I'm working on a screen grab to explain. In the meantime, take a look at your 90% vs. 10% comment. That's not the case. It's 100% vs. 90% and the 90% would have a more cumbersome interface. I'll explain shortly.

That's alright, I don't want to drag this on anyway. Just trying to say everyone has a different viewpoint, but at some point Josh has to say enough, and get on with things. (FWIW, I never even look at the cut list info at all!)

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
But is the goal to make it useable for 90%+ of the installations, or the sub 10%? How many folks are using their TV as the display device for their PC (when not watching a stream)? I'm saying you put yourself in a position to sacrifice by using the TV, and must be willing to accept the shortcomings of that choice. Everything is a compromise. ;) I think you typed that too quickly. A simple, streamlined display doesn't exclude 90% of users.

There are 2 aspects to my objections; clutter and complexity.

On the primary window, what benefit is actually achieved by including a + and two frame counts?

The current proposed form of this display doesn't include any clear demarcation between the types of information. It is showing 3 types of information, all jamemd together. Human beings don't rapidly process this type of display, that's why columns of text and number typically use spaces or lines between them. Spaces are best because of how we assimilate the information.

If the frame counts exist, the + is unneeded and does nothing other than complicate the display.

What purpose is actually served by the frame counts at this level of display? When you do the frame-accurate edits, it will be in a sub-window, correct? Then it follows THAT window is where this information would be appropriate.

Here is a mock-up version of Josh's earlier screen showing my proposed use of color. Note that all the text stays black so it is easy to discern wrt the aspect of the TYPE of cut which is indicated by the colored background. It doesn't have to be green but it shouldn't be red or blue because NTSC doesn't handle them well. Perhaps the color could also "spill" into the following space so it's easier to see...

(more in a follow-on post...)

[FredThompson]

I'm not just doing this because of your post. IMNSHO, the design is entering an important phase and I'd like to illustrate what text alone seems impossible of conveying.

(FWIW, The Visual Display of Quantitative Information book was just released in an updated edition. It's fantastic stuff for anyone who deals with interface designs of any sort.)

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by FredThompson
TV display will become more important as computers are integrated more into A/V systems. Done properly, they don't look like beige blocks and monitor with all those cables showing. IOW, the living room looks like a living room, not an office or techie's paradise.

Ah...ever the dreamer. How many years now has "convergence" been right around the corner? I hope I never see the day when it says "Microsoft Inside" on my TV!! :eek:

[FredThompson]

OK, here are two screenshots. Keep in mind, these are mockups and don't reflect what would actually show on an NTSC display. These look BETTER than than would on a TV. Both were letterboxed and resized to 640x480. Keep in mind, the vast majority of TVs won't show 480 lines of true resolution, regardless of what they claim. There's also a big difference between computer graphics where each pixel has unique chroma and luminence values and NTSC which shares chroma across four horizontal pixels.

Here's the 800x600 desktop.

[FredThompson]

Here's the 640x480 desktop

[FredThompson]

Both will look worse on a TV. If the text is smaller or more complex, it will turn into a blob.

Also, that green was a poor choice. The contrast with black text isn't strong enough.

Oh, I'll shut up if someone would be so kind as to donate to me a 1080i plasma wall monitor and ATi all-in-wonder 9800...no takers? nuts.

[andy_ho]

Josh,

When I was extracting from the Tivo(hdvr2), I get the warning message:

......... 600......... 700......
WARNING: Encountered a damaged SeriesII Video Frame!
... 800......... 900......... 1000

should I be concern?

[andy_ho]

Fred,

I think Josh wanted to keep the frame info(ex: +80) in case there is a need for it later on. Currently, there isn't much usage for it, but who knows...

[snoopy]

Originally posted by FredThompson
Both will look worse on a TV. If the text is smaller or more complex, it will turn into a blob.I agree with bubble that you are in the minority BUT, I think it makes alot of sense to look at it. I completely agree that A/V output compatability will become a great deal more common in the future, and that we need to pay attention to the way it looks at lower resolutions. This kind of forward thinking is what makes for a fantastic product.

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
Ah...ever the dreamer. How many years now has "convergence" been right around the corner? I hope I never see the day when it says "Microsoft Inside" on my TV!! :eek: I meant computers as A/V components, not beige towers by a desk.

The folks who make computers aren't seeing lots of sales aren't seeing much in the way of desk computer sales but if they can sell you another computer with the form factor of a small VCR with a DVD burner, NTSC and monitor out, wireless keyboard and mouse, 5.1 audio, etc. and it looks like an A/V component, you'd be more apt to put that in your living room or bedroom than a "standard" computer. Many of the mini-ATX systems support all that and frequently use the Cyrix chips which don't need noisy CPU fans and the integrated water-cooling on the die is right around the corner.

That's not really much different from the TiVo itself or the XBox.

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by andy_ho
Fred,

I think Josh wanted to keep the frame info(ex: +80) in case there is a need for it later on. Currently, there isn't much usage for it, but who knows...
Oh, sure, I understand that. I wasn't suggesting to not have the information available. My understanding, and I may be completely incorrect about this, is the frame-accurate editing is to be done with a different display. If that is true, the primary display doesn't need to show this information, it would go on the secondary window. Given that, the primary window can show the type of edit using color in such a way that it doesn't become more congested.

Maybe I didn't communicate that accurately enough earlier. Sorry about that.

[cagey]

Please tell me if I am missing a step.

In the make menu screen I select the menu elements 0-# (however many vobs) and I select chapter points every 5 minutes for each menu element. I then select "make IFO". And the disc is made.

Do I have to do anything else to get chapters to work, because I am still not getting any chapters? Jinder said I may have moved a file or deleted it, but I don't think I have done anything. The only thing I can think of, is that I missed a step somewhere along the process.

I have included my make.bat file. Do I need to do anything with that file, or is it just created when I select "make IFO"? Any help would be great, this problem is driving me nuts.

[ronnythunder]

yep, the "-c0" is the giveaway that you have no chapters.

ok, here's what i had to do to get things to work back in the earliest tytool releases that had vob making capability. i have no idea if things have changed to where i don't have to get this drastic, but i have the process streamlined and it works 100% of the time:

i create a new dir. under there, i create the audio_ts and video_ts dirs. then, i copy all of the tytool programs and .ini files into the actual dir. i change the .ini file to point to the current dir for dvdout and the other stuff. i then run tytool.exe from the dir itself.

this way, every single file that's in any way involved with the process is in the same dir. earlier versions of tytool couldn't find some of the support tools and such if they weren't in the same dir.

try this once to see if that helps.

ronny

[jdiner]

Originally posted by andy_ho

00:02:50.034+34/90
00:05:50.034+20/70

You know I thought about this. But no... I don't like that. When I looked at it it was nowhere near as easy to use/view. It was much much harder to pick things out. Especially once scrolling had taken place. I.e. was the first line a start or an end cut? etc...


Also, are there any plan to show cutting from middle GOP to end(show starts ends at the middle), or from begining GOP to middle(show starts at the middle). Sometimes you might mistakenly delete the show instead of the commercial.

About the frame editor. Are you going to put the total # of frames in frm: section like you do for the GOP editor?
Ummm. You mean play from partial GOP start to partial GOP end. No. It will play the full thing on each end. But you can use the play frames portion to do what you are suggesting on each end.

And yes the frame accurate editor shows the # of frames, rather than the # of GOPs. Now that there is a frame accurate portion the Frm: on the main window should probably be changed to GOP: as Frm no longer really applies.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Originally posted by FredThompson

Regarding 640x480 vs. 800x600, the benefit of 640x480 is the ability to discern text when it's pumped through a TV. To be very direct, the reason I'm promoting these ideas is because the computer I have which services the TiVos is hooked to my TV via s-video and uses a wireless keyboard and mouse. Maybe I'm the only person who does this. At 800x600, the text becomes quite squished; 6, 8 and 0 all start to look very similar...

I have this same setup. I have a logitec wireless setup. It works so well it is almost scary. They claim 4 feet on the wireless range. I am closer to 10 across the living room from the couch. Make some things so easy. Which is why I also want to stick to the 640x480 res...


The cost difference between a standard tube TV and TV-out card vs. a 1080i monitor and video card is quite significant. Placing a computer and monitor right at the living room seating makes it more of a work station, not a relaxation area.
Hey an old amiga monitor. I use the same exact thing here at home. They work amazingly well for testing out this type of stuff. And when pointing my sat dish I can take it all out the back deck as well to make it easier.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
I hate to say this Fred, but I think you are in a serious minority with the 640x480 mode. Heck, even my 78 year old Mom uses 800x600. :D
My 64 year old data uses 640x480. But that is only after lasik surgery that he could drop down to only Bi-Focals rather than quad.

Scary part, he had 20/20 vision until an eye infection.

I still have 20/15 vision. (Knock on wood. :) but that doesn't change the fact that I too have a machine right down infront of my TV.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Originally posted by FredThompson
IOW, the living room looks like a living room, not an office or techie's paradise.
Hey now I resemble that... The most I have ever had is 3 working computers in the Living room attached to my AV center. Now one was a DTivo but still... :)

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
That's alright, I don't want to drag this on anyway. Just trying to say everyone has a different viewpoint, but at some point Josh has to say enough, and get on with things. (FWIW, I never even look at the cut list info at all!)
So are you using GopEditor to cut things? Or is the reason you don't look that you don't use it?

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Originally posted by andy_ho
Josh,

When I was extracting from the Tivo(hdvr2), I get the warning message:

......... 600......... 700......
WARNING: Encountered a damaged SeriesII Video Frame!
... 800......... 900......... 1000

should I be concern?
No. You lost 1 frame of video. This will appear as a glitch but it does when playing on the Dtivo too.

It is actually something that was complete garbage from the sat itself. There is nothing to be done to repair it.

When I added that I went all the way down to the slice level to check things. The data is just simply NOT mpeg-2 data.

The full recovery is in place and happened when you saw the message you saw. No loss in sync etc... has taken place.

Just out of curiosity what channel/show had it. The only other times I have seen it have all been from 1 channel.

--jdiner

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by jdiner
I have this same setup. I have a logitec wireless setup. It works so well it is almost scary. They claim 4 feet on the wireless range. I am closer to 10 across the living room from the couch. Make some things so easy. Which is why I also want to stick to the 640x480 res...yup, same here. Mine's black so it's not as visible when it's "hidden' under the coffee table. Got some wireless gamepads, too. tytool, MAME, etc. all through the A/V. I'm an old fart, don't care for PS2...

yea!! the mouthy geek (me) wins one! woohoo!!!Hey an old amiga monitor. I use the same exact thing here at home. They work amazingly well for testing out this type of stuff. And when pointing my sat dish I can take it all out the back deck as well to make it easier.

--jdiner I meant 1080i as in HDTV...I do have a Commodore 1702 used a sanity-check through an ADS Instant DVD 2 at my editing station used to make sure DV source will look ok on a standard display, though. Does that count? It's been running great for almost 20 years except the slider switch on the back has to get jiggled every now and then.

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by jdiner
So are you using GopEditor to cut things? Or is the reason you don't look that you don't use it?

--jdiner

I absolutely use it to edit all my stuff. I just don't care what the numbers are. I'm cutting commercials out. I don't care if it's at 3min, 22sec, XYZ frames. I just want them out of my show. :D

[jdiner]

Originally posted by FredThompson

Oh, I'll shut up if someone would be so kind as to donate to me a 1080i plasma wall monitor and ATi all-in-wonder 9800...no takers? nuts.
Oh. I mis-guessed on the number. I have an old Amiga monitor that I use. Specifically a 1080i, my parents have my old 1080s. Didn't realize it was one of the new plasma tubes. You know what.

If anyone wants to get me one of these. I will implement whatever feature you want in TyTool or GopEditor... Heck I will implement 2 of them. No matter how silly or off the wall I think it might be. :)

(And yes that was humour for the impaired amoung us...)

--jdiner

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by jdiner
I still have 20/15 vision. (Knock on wood. :) but that doesn't change the fact that I too have a machine right down infront of my TV.

--jdiner


Yea, but are your ears still ringing? :D :eek:

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by FredThompson
I meant computers as A/V components, not beige towers by a desk.

I know that's what you meant. And I'm saying that until you see widespread adoption of OTA digital TV signals and cheap receivers, the analog TV will remain a piss-poor display device for computers.

[jdiner]

Originally posted by cagey
Please tell me if I am missing a step.

In the make menu screen I select the menu elements 0-# (however many vobs) and I select chapter points every 5 minutes for each menu element. I then select "make IFO". And the disc is made.

You do not need to do anything else.

There is needed information in the .chp file. If you create an IFO with out this file present in the right places then inside of the make.bat file you will see an option that reads:

-C0

If you make it with this file in place as you described, every 5 minutes, you get:

-C0,300,600,900

and so on. Given that it works for me on a daily basis and works for almost everyone else. My guess is that something you are doing in the cause rather than the tool.

Are you out of disk space?
Are you moving anything?
Are you renaming anything?
Are you using an "output directory" from the main TyTool window?
What is the exact source of the stream? (channel, movie or episode)
What type of tivo?
What is the version of the tivo?
For that matter what type of PC and what version of the OS on that?

Etc... You have to provide way more information if anyone is going to be able to help you.

--jdiner

[cagey]

Originally posted by ronnythunder
yep, the "-c0" is the giveaway that you have no chapters.

ronny

I'm trying it right now, but how can I tell if the "-c0" is being used.

[jdiner]

Originally posted by FredThompson
yup, same here. Mine's black so it's not as visible when it's "hidden' under the coffee table. Got some wireless gamepads, too. tytool, MAME, etc. all through the A/V. I'm an old fart, don't care for PS2...

Oooohhhh. I had not thought about MAME... Where did you get wireless gamepads? Off topic I know but man that would seriously Cool. I have a love for some of the older arcade games... :)

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
Yea, but are your ears still ringing? :D :eek:
Well yeah. But nicely for me no where near as bad as they used to. That was darn near impossible to live with.

I lost 38 pounds when I got a second Dtivo, a JVC TV for the basement, and a recumbant excercise bike from Icon... (I wrote the iFit component for them so I got a good price... :) Getting back into shape seems to have made a major difference.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Originally posted by cagey
I'm trying it right now, but how can I tell if the "-c0" is being used.
As I said edit the make.bat file as it is in there.

Basically do a search -C0 and see if anything else is immediately after that like in my last post on the subject.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Ok. I agree with many here.

The +### is useless to anyone but me. And for me only right now does it have any use. Once I am done with a few more things it is going to be pointless.

I also don't like cluttering the display. That accomplishes nothing. And newbie's have a hard enough time as it is now without wondering why the timestamp needs "+9 more milliseconds"... :)

So I am now toying with a few other things. The idea of a high contrast color in the background has merit but means creating a custom owner-drawn control for it. That a somewhat tedious task and prevents easy porting of an actual GUI to other platforms.

So right now I am playing around visually with a few other ideas.

--jdiner

[andy_ho]

Originally posted by jdiner
Ummm. You mean play from partial GOP start to partial GOP end. No. It will play the full thing on each end. But you can use the play frames portion to do what you are suggesting on each end.
--jdiner

No, I don't mean that. What I meant was that...what if you did a wrong frame cut? for example:
00:00:00.000+20 00:03:40.888+30

the +20(assuming there are 50 frames total), what if you made a mistake(assuming that it's possible), and you cut frame 0 to 30 instead of frame 30 to 50? That means that you cut the program instead, and left behind commercial.

[jdiner]

Originally posted by andy_ho
No, I don't mean that. What I meant was that...what if you did a wrong frame cut? for example:
00:00:00.000+20 00:03:40.888+30

the +20(assuming there are 50 frames total), what if you made a mistake(assuming that it's possible), and you cut frame 0 to 30 instead of frame 30 to 50? That means that you cut the program instead, and left behind commercial.
Not possible. Not with how it is done. What you are cutting is clear and testible during the frame accurate cutting process.

--jdiner

[andy_ho]

Originally posted by jdiner
The full recovery is in place and happened when you saw the message you saw. No loss in sync etc... has taken place.

Just out of curiosity what channel/show had it. The only other times I have seen it have all been from 1 channel.

--jdiner

Good to hear that there is no sync problem.
The warning was from Toon Disney(channel 292), and the show is DuckTales.

[jdiner]

Alright. I couple a few things said here with a few things I was thinking about doing myself.

The listbox is now custom rendering. It was the IMHO the best choice. So there is a colored back ground if a frame accurate edit is present.

Then I added 2 new text fields, small ones, to the GUI so that you, read I, can see what that frame cut point is. Seemed the simplest solution.

--jdiner

[cagey]

Originally posted by jdiner
You do not need to do anything else.

There is needed information in the .chp file. If you create an IFO with out this file present in the right places then inside of the make.bat file you will see an option that reads:

-C0

If you make it with this file in place as you described, every 5 minutes, you get:

-C0,300,600,900

and so on. Given that it works for me on a daily basis and works for almost everyone else. My guess is that something you are doing in the cause rather than the tool.

Are you out of disk space?
Are you moving anything?
Are you renaming anything?
Are you using an "output directory" from the main TyTool window?
What is the exact source of the stream? (channel, movie or episode)
What type of tivo?
What is the version of the tivo?
For that matter what type of PC and what version of the OS on that?

Etc... You have to provide way more information if anyone is going to be able to help you.

--jdiner

OK, I am using XP Pro version 2002 with Service Pack 1 with all of the updates. My comptuer is an AMD XP2100 with 512 MB of RAM and 2 hard drives totallying 200 GB.

My Tivo is a DSR6000 with version 2.5.2.

The source of tytool on my system is d:\downloads\tivo\tytool8r3\tytool\tytool8r3.exe

The source of my movies are HBO for Ice Age and the Disney Channel for Spirit and Atlantis which have commercials edited out, stored on the g: drive, which is my tivo import drive.

When I make the dvd, I have tytool create the dvd in an already created directory called, I:\temp which has about 20 gig free.

I realise that the chapter points are working for you and it seems everyone else, which is why I'm frustriated that it isn't working and hopefully I can figure out what I'm doing wrong.

If I have to edit the make.bat file to make it all work I will, but I am hoping I can make it work without doing that.

It would be great if someone could post their make.bat with chapters every 5 minutes so I could see what a working file looks like.

Thanks for any help.

[jdiner]

Cagey:

Post for me the 3 .chp files files for the movies you are talking about. That is the next step I guess.

--jdiner

[cagey]

Originally posted by jdiner
Cagey:

Post for me the 3 .chp files files for the movies you are talking about. That is the next step I guess.

--jdiner

I hope this is correct, because I don't see any .chp files.

Thanks,

[jdiner]

Originally posted by cagey
I hope this is correct, because I don't see any .chp files.

No, no, no.

You have a .ty file. Assuming all things being equal in the same exact directory you should have a .key file, a .cut file, a .vob file, and a .chp file. This will not be in the output DVD directory but in the directory where you downloaded all of this stuff too.

--jdiner

[cagey]

Originally posted by jdiner
No, no, no.

You have a .ty file. Assuming all things being equal in the same exact directory you should have a .key file, a .cut file, a .vob file, and a .chp file. This will not be in the output DVD directory but in the directory where you downloaded all of this stuff too.

--jdiner

I have been saving just the vob fiels and delete everything else after I make the vob files, I take it I shouldn't and if I keep them, I won't be having this problem.

[jdiner]

Yes. You MUST save the .vob and .chp files. That is what I wrote only a few replies ago to you.

Please go back and re-read each of the replies I made to you tonight.

They specify DON'T DELETE ANYTHING until you have the DVD burned and working.

They specify that you MUST HAVE the .chp files for chaptering to work.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Alright boys and girls. Time for a new screencap.

Here is GopCap4. This picture shows the new colorized listebox suggested by FredThompson and the 2 new textboxes for the showing of the frame counts on Frame Accurate edit to the right of the start and stop timestamp fields.

Is the light blue a good color? Suggestions?

--jdiner

[FredThompson]

Would a strong yellow work? It's optically very similar to white so should eb easy to ignore unless you're looking for it. How does this look pumped to your TV?

[jdiner]

The light blue actually looks pretty good on the TV. The black text still stands out strong against it. I didn't try yellow but I tried a few others and the dark fade more on the monitor but on the TV the text disappears into it.

--jdiner

[snoopy]

Originally posted by FredThompson
Would a strong yellow work? It's optically very similar to white so should eb easy to ignore unless you're looking for it.That is an interesting concept.

[jdiner]

Originally posted by snoopy
That is an interesting concept.
Is that like sayings "she has a great personality" when trying to arrange a blind date?

--jdiner

[FredThompson]

Originally posted by jdiner
Is that like sayings "she has a great personality" when trying to arrange a blind date?

--jdiner ...and big hands...

A blind date is when you find out what your friends really think your personality is.

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by FredThompson
Would a strong yellow work? It's optically very similar to white so should eb easy to ignore unless you're looking for it. How does this look pumped to your TV?


How about mauve? Or cerulean blue?

[snoopy]

I think we should spend LOTS of time on it. j/k :)

[HuMan321]

Josh,

Could you outline the changes that will be forthcoming in the next version of TyTool?

I have been following this thread and thought I read where you said the next version might be TyTool9xx.

I know about the frame accurate cutting you have been working on, but was wondering if there would be any other changes.
I remember you mentioning a problem with the satellite stream itself and seemed to have some ideas on that.

Also earlier you were working with the creator of dvdauthor and I also read where some newer versions of that have come out.
Will these be included in the new release? Did any of the "back to the main menu" or other minor issues get worked out?

The main reason I ask is that I have been holding off processing any Ty files until your new release. I thought at one time I had alot of hard drive space. This extraction can sure burn it up quick. LOL

The release that I am using now (8r3) is working great, but if there are some major changes besides the accurate frame cutting I am wanting to wait. If it is mostly a release of the frame cutting I would probably just wait with my files that require alot of cutting.

Thanks for the TyTool program. It is awesome

Also, another question I have is the NowShowing file and the Tserver_mfs7 file were updated I think at the TyTool 7r10 version. This is when I replaced them on the Tivo itself. Have these files changed at all since they were first released? They are working great for me, but I thought I might have read where someone said to update them to the latest, which I am not sure if I have the latest.

[cagey]

Originally posted by jdiner
Yes. You MUST save the .vob and .chp files. That is what I wrote only a few replies ago to you.

Please go back and re-read each of the replies I made to you tonight.

They specify DON'T DELETE ANYTHING until you have the DVD burned and working.

They specify that you MUST HAVE the .chp files for chaptering to work.

--jdiner

Thank you very much. The chapters work fine working fine.

Just one thing, is there a way to make the dvd continue on to the 2nd movie on the disc after the 1st one if finished.

[Pr.Sinister]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
I hate to say this Fred, but I think you are in a serious minority with the 640x480 mode. Heck, even my 78 year old Mom uses 800x600. :D

Wow!

Am i the only one here using 1600x1200?

I've had a 21 inch monitor for over 10 years and i have been
using 1600x1200 for at least 8 years...

-Pr.

[jdiner]

Originally posted by Pr.Sinister
Wow!

Am i the only one here using 1600x1200?

I've had a 21 inch monitor for over 10 years and i have been
using 1600x1200 for at least 8 years...

-Pr.
On my PC's I refuse to work in anything but 1600x1200. I love the extra space when programming. I can see so much more of the code.

He, and myself as well, were talking about the TV output itself. I use S_Video to connect to my TV but even on a decent if old JVC 27" tv I can't stand using 800x600. So I still use 640x480.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

Originally posted by HuMan321
Could you outline the changes that will be forthcoming in the next version of TyTool?
It will be entirely frame accurate editing at this point. There is a ton of work and testing to be done there.

There will be one small interim fix for a few things released in the next day or so. It will allow a DVD to return to the main menu automatically when VOB ends.

There is one other small fix that I can't remember what it was. This was intended as the real 8r4 after the 8r3a test release was done. But Snoopy and other noticed I made a mistake and have been refering to it the test release 8r4. So I will have to roll to 8r5 for this minor release.

--jdiner

[FredThompson]

Actually, at my main workstation I have 2 17" monitors running 1024x768 on the main machine. One of them is hooked to a KVM so I can also go to the server.

Personally, I never could get used to one monitor. When I work with paper, I spread it all over the desk. It's so much easier to compare across screens.

If I'm editing video, forget 1024x768 or even 1600x1200. 1024x768 on 2 monitors works great. Source frame goes on one, destination frame on the other and they're large enough I can easily see details. Same with word processing. If I was still coding, yeah, I'd go for 1600x1200, no doubt.

Thing is, even with S-Video, you're not going to see a full 480 lines because virtually no TVs really show that, regardless of their specs. The spec is what the electronics can handle in a source signal, not what's really displayed in the visible portion of the screen. Thus, even 640x480 is squished and not just with the letterboxing I explained a little earlier. If you're running a 480i or 1080i HDTV, well, that's another issue. Which, by now, it should be ovious that DVD and DirecTV resolution exceed the detail of all but the most expensive consumer TVs.

[rpongett]

For some reason, I'm not getting audio now after MUXing to both MPEG and VOB.

I've MUX'd hundreds of .ty files without this issue arising, so I'm not sure what the problem is. I did a search, and the only post that jumped out was one posted just a few days ago by another poster (not answered):

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29011

The .ty file itself (college football game) DOES have audio which can clearly be heard using mplayer with no special settings.

I havea a DSR6000, am using TyTool 8r3. I've tried using a number of different options including "Patch audio holes" and even transcoding (not necessary because I have a DTivo).

Any idea what's causing the problem all of a suggen?

[ronnythunder]

were there any errors reported in the muxing process? i've had several files become "audio-challenged" following pts resets and other weird errors in the muxing.

ronny

[eastwind]

I've also had audio problems when the key file generation reports problems like...No audio header present (wording is from memory). Did you have anything like that?
ew

[kyle]

Originally posted by jdiner
The transcoding volume is indeed low. I didn't know this until I had to use a few SA clips this last week. The author of the transcoding stuff and I have been working things over for the last few days. Better support for things coming all the way around.

There is a volume correction setting in the DLL that just needs to be represented in the GUI. I will be adding that as soon as the new DLL is ready to roll.

Josh, will this trancoding volume fix also be included in the next version?

Thanks,
-Kyle

[jdiner]

Ummm. I dunno about the new transcoding stuff. I was trying not to have to rebuild things that didn't need it crucially at this point. I was trying to just solve a few critical things as my focus is elsewhere at the moment.

--jdiner

[mavrcksd]

Josh:

You know - I'm still working on gathering your help stuff together in one nice little area. And reading from what I have, the SA tivo audio is still in the works. ONLY this weekend have I had the need to burn something from my SA tivo (making a backup of a VHS tape) - and well - I'm having issues all over. the audio will play fine in WINDVD, and Media Player 9, however burning it to a DVD+r or DVD+rw that I have used sucessfully in the past with my HDVR2 burning of disks nada, video is fine, audio is bad. I have done the transcoding option 5 . I have even tychopped the first 50 chunks of it, to make sure that there wasn't something screwing in the begging like VHS tracking badness that got into the tivo recording somehow... HELP?

[jdiner]

It should work. :)

I have used it a few times. Others use it all the time.

The choppiness has always in the past been caused by the audio being the wrong data rate. I would assume that is still the case.

My advice make sure the audio transcoding realy is on. The verify that it took place. Load the output up into PowerDVD/WinDVD/etc... and check what data rate it is really supposed to be.

If it is still choppy then I would bet that something is going wrong somewhere and it is not actually happening. Missing dll? Lost setting? Something like that.

--jdiner

[jdiner]

I had wanted to release the new GopEditor/TyTool programs this weekend.

In the proposed release TyTool would not actually do the frame accurate cutting. This would be a way to make the new format key files and then edit them in the new GopEditor.

However I have spent way more time than planned cleaning things up. So many things I hadn't even thought of until I started testing things out. These things aren't that hard but man there were a freaking ton of them.

As it stands now the GopEditor is at long last finished. Frame accurate cutting is in place, being able to play GOPs is in place, saves the new format of .cut files, etc...

Oh crap. Just realized that I forgot loading of the new format of Cut files. Gotta go back and fix that.

Barring this one things, I have moved my efforts back to TyTool.

So your call. Do people want to see the new editor while I work on the next batch of things? Or would you rather wait for it all at one time?

--jdiner

[horwitz]

If you're at a good milestone (even if it's a small one, so long as things are stable-ish), releasing it means you get a lot of beta (alpha? :) ) testers for the new stuff.

[FredThompson]

Yeah, but it sounds like an incomplete package so wouldn't he really get people complaining, "this doesn't work."?

[mavrcksd]

Josh:

I have all confidence in it. I even looked at the tytool.ini and it said option 5 for the trandscoding bit. That's what I had it at all along. I saw it and read it many times as it was linking it on the page (the readme's)

So, with all the posts about Nero 5.5.10.7 that you have, I even downloaded a copy of that. That did make a DVD but it would only play in windvd, not even mplayer, nor my DVD player in my home theatre system.

So, I had a copy of DVD workshop, and just went to the finish option and choose the burn from video folder, and did that. Finally a DVD.

One thing that I want to point out. every ty that i brought from the SA tivo, had PTS errors at the beginning, that's why I had to tychopp the first 20-50 chunks (this was easy, just set the record a little earlier, and played the VCR later.

I did some more searaching and went in to change the resolution for the tivo at basic quality. Changed it to 0 - and bygolly mplayer played the stream at 720x480! However, still had to tychopp the first few chunks to make it recognize and do anything correctly.

Correctly I mean that the audio wasn't choppy in anything that I tried, the VOB before making the IFO's or such.

I even had a copy of DVD-lab, but that audio transcoder on there speeds up the audio and so you start hearing the audio of the middle of the movie at the start menu option. (Yes, I was pulling all straws at almost midnight last night).

MAV

[Fugg]

Originally posted by jdiner
...
As it stands now the GopEditor is at long last finished. Frame accurate cutting is in place, being able to play GOPs is in place, saves the new format of .cut files, etc...
...
Barring this one things, I have moved my efforts back to TyTool.

So your call. Do people want to see the new editor while I work on the next batch of things? Or would you rather wait for it all at one time?

--jdiner
If it's in a state where you can release it without having to spend a lot of time "completing it" for release, release away!:)

If you have to spend some time preparing it for an interim release, then I'd rather you spend the time working on a final release.

ie.- Don't take the time away from the tytool work to spend extra time on an interim release.

Did that make sense??

but, as always,

Doing what YOU want to do is infinitely more important!!
;)

[

[jdiner]

Originally posted by mavrcksd

One thing that I want to point out. every ty that i brought from the SA tivo, had PTS errors at the beginning, that's why I had to tychopp the first 20-50 chunks (this was easy, just set the record a little earlier, and played the VCR later.

Hummm. I don't know. There might be something wrong with the parsing of SATivo streams now. But I know of several others on here that use it and I would be less inclined to think that it was going on.

However I just thought of a way to handle that without too much trouble. Actually I should have been doing that kind of thing all along. hehehe. Funny how answers to old problems just sort of popup now and again. Wild.

Anyway, if you could cut the start of one of these problem streams with TyFileSplit for me I would appriciate it. I would like to see what is going on.

--jdiner

[mavrcksd]

I'll do that tonight when I get home

Danke Schoen

[jdiner]

Hummm. Found another things that needs to be fixed in the new GopEditor. Not a big deal. You could crash things if you did it "right" with editing. I was trying to be massively flexible but that just not going to work with the frame accurate stuff. I use linked lists and I now have multiple-update problems. Gonna have to back things down for awhile and limit what can be done while a frame accurate process is running.

--jdiner

[johnwill]

Don't rush it Josh, we'll be able to toil along with the old one for a little while. :)

[eastwind]

@mavrcksd

Could the problem be with not having an audio signal when the recording starts? I've run into this before and the timing is critical. If I don't have the VHS tape already running when the TiVo starts to record I get those pesky No Audio Header found (or something like that) messages when I try to make the key file (at least I think that's when I have the problem). Might be something else to check on.

ew

[Toddler]

Personally I want to know exactly where my edit points are, and the extra +### would be useful to me. Too many times I need to go back and tweak things a little this way or that, and knowing precisely what you're working with is important. Maybe I am the only one who works this way, or maybe I am just missing something.

Todd

Originally posted by jdiner
Ok. I agree with many here.

The +### is useless to anyone but me. And for me only right now does it have any use. Once I am done with a few more things it is going to be pointless.

I also don't like cluttering the display. That accomplishes nothing. And newbie's have a hard enough time as it is now without wondering why the timestamp needs "+9 more milliseconds"... :)

So I am now toying with a few other things. The idea of a high contrast color in the background has merit but means creating a custom owner-drawn control for it. That a somewhat tedious task and prevents easy porting of an actual GUI to other platforms.

So right now I am playing around visually with a few other ideas.

--jdiner

[mavrcksd]

Josh:

I have noticed routinely that if i move the edit slider all the way to the end, and mark out, it will not show within the valid timecode sequence of the show.

i.e the show goes for 90 mins 01hr 31mins x seconds

When I mark out at the position where the slider is (at the very end of the ty file), it will show 13:51:sseconds, instead of 01:35:sseconds. Where it should be the end of the clip.

It's almost as if things have shifted to the left by one position. It has done this every time. it didn't cause a burp in cutting out the end, because 13 hours into the file doesn't exist, so i assume it's going to the end and stopping. I looked into the .cut file and sure enough it shows the 13:51:and some sseconds in there. When i was having all the audio issues, I edited the cut file to make it correct, and didn't do any difference.

FYI

[jdiner]

Search the forum.

The timestamp changes on the very ends on either side were on purpose and have a very clear reason for doing so.

--jdiner

[drnull]

Originally posted by Toddler
Personally I want to know exactly where my edit points are, and the extra +### would be useful to me. Too many times I need to go back and tweak things a little this way or that, and knowing precisely what you're working with is important. Maybe I am the only one who works this way, or maybe I am just missing something.
Todd

I think one feature that would make that list more useful is if you could hit a key (left or right arrow??) after selecting a cut, and it would go to the start or end of that cut in the video. I say left or right arrow because (I think) it doesn't movie the video forward or backwards by one GOP when you are in that listbox.

Otherwise, yes, it takes time to tweak things.

Still, though, you don't need to know where the edit point is in that list. You only need to see the edit point when you are in frame-accurate mode. Not GOP mode. IMHO.

[FredThompson]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. It would be nice to have away to instantly position the slider at an edit point from the list.

[jdiner]

The Start and End "jump to" feature is already in there. Has been for some time.

I am surprised... Am I the only one that knows where it is/how to do it? That is not a tongue-in-cheek question. Either the docs are worse than I thought or there is even less reading of them going on than I thought.

So I will ask again. Anyone else know how to do it?

--jdiner

[FredThompson]

The challenge is probably the change-list organization. Hmm...um...I'd love to donate the time to help with this right now but I can't. Got a big project I'm still working on and a business trip. I'll print 'em out and take 'em with. There's always downtime at night. Maybe a single-page interface reference chart would be helpful. It's been a few moons but I used to design those when I was teaching classes about Word.

[andy_ho]

Originally posted by jdiner
The Start and End "jump to" feature is already in there. Has been for some time.

I am surprised... Am I the only one that knows where it is/how to do it? That is not a tongue-in-cheek question. Either the docs are worse than I thought or there is even less reading of them going on than I thought.

So I will ask again. Anyone else know how to do it?

--jdiner

Josh,

Are you referring to going all the way to the beginning of the key file using Ctrl+Home or all the way to the end of the key file by using Ctrl+End? If so, I'm quite sure that they're not talking about this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what they're referring to is:

Under the cut list, it has all the starting and ending point where you want to cut. For ex:
00:00:00.000 00:02:36.122
00:13:45.908 00:17:12.731
00:22:31.166 00:25:55.187
What Fred and Drnull are referring to is when you select "00:13:45.908 00:17:12.731" from the cut list (by clicking the mouse on it or pressing up key), and then press left arrow key, it will bring the slidebar to 00:13:45.908 (in other word, "curr:" value would be 00:13:45.908). When you press right arrow key, it will bring the slidebar to 00:17:12.731 ("curr:" value would be 00:17:12.731)

The closest thing I saw in the GopEditor is F6 where "You can select a cut entry and play just that 1 single entry"

[rtphokie]

What is the safest way to upgrade from 0.5.0? Are there processes I need to kill on the TiVo? Does the install tool take care of fixing up the rc.sysinit file?

[kurtm]

Originally posted by jdiner
The Start and End "jump to" feature is already in there. Has been for some time.

I am surprised... Am I the only one that knows where it is/how to do it? That is not a tongue-in-cheek question. Either the docs are worse than I thought or there is even less reading of them going on than I thought.

So I will ask again. Anyone else know how to do it?

--jdiner

I don't, and I HAVE read over the docs in the 8r3a release. I pretty much saw nothing about the keystroke shortcuts, and have only picked them up from the menus...

Did you perhaps leave out a text file for an earlier version of TyTool that listed the shortcuts?

[DeTer]

Originally posted by rtphokie
What is the safest way to upgrade from 0.5.0? Are there processes I need to kill on the TiVo? Does the install tool take care of fixing up the rc.sysinit file?

I believe your mixing up tystudio v 0.5 with tytools v 8r3 They are 2 entirely different tools.

regards
DeTer

Some more reading is in order.

[rtphokie]

Originally posted by DeTer
[B]I believe your mixing up tystudio v 0.5 with tytools v 8r3 They are 2 entirely different tools.

Okay, fine, I'll reword my question. Whats the safest way to go from tystudio 0.5.0 to tytool 8r3?

Should I remove the tystudio entries from the rc.sysinit, reboot, install tytools 8r3 and reboot again? Or is there a better way that doesn't involve any reboots. I've got a DirecTiVo which always times out aquiring the sat signal so reboots take several minutes.

[FredThompson]

Well, if you're dumping TyStudio there's no need for those entries, is there? Removing