Writing an Extraction How-to: Which App to use?

[SteveJenkins]

Hi, guys. I'm new to the DealDatabase forums, but not new to TiVo. A while ago I wrote a step-by-step guide to help newbies start hacking on their TiVos (http://tivo.stevejenkins.com/).

My TiVo guide now gets a few thousand downloads a day, and I am constantly flooded with email requests to author a similar document detailing video extraction. I've been using a number of different tools to do this myself over the last couple of years (including both TyStudio and TyTool), but before I start writing a new how-to I figured I'd check in with the members of this forum to see which extraction method you would suggest I use in my doc.

Keep in mind that this doc is targeted at complete newbies. Many have never messed with Linux, video compression methods, etc. So I want to make the process very easy to follow - which will decrease questions to me, and decrease many of the repetiative newbie questions on forums like this one.

The scope of the guide will be to take people from where my network hack guide leaves off, all the way through watching their shows on their computer and/or burning those shows onto DVD-R.

Because of the simple point and click look of TyTool, I'm leaning toward using that method in the guide - but I'd appreciate the input of those in this forum before I decide.

Thanks for the input!

[captain_video]

Welcome to DDB, Steve. Your tutorials and website are well known in these here parts. There are currently four different extraction tools to choose from:

1. TyTool8r3 - By far the easiest extraction utility to set up and use. It's also the most complete set of apps in one package for extracting, editing, and authoring a ty file from the Tivo to a set of DVD-compliant VOB files complete with menus and chapter stops. It can also split edited files into elemental streams or mux them into mpegs for use with commercial authoring programs such as DVD-Lab, Ulead DVD Workshop and Movie Factory, SpruceUp, and DVD Maestro among others. You can select multiple files for extracting and processing and then simply let it do its own thing while you go about your business. Other utilities require that you babysit them for multiple extractions or processing.

2. TyStudio - The next best thing to TyTool in that it also has extraction, editing, and processing tools built-in. It doesn't have the VOB fileset creation abilities like TyTool but it's still a pretty decent program overall. I disliked the fact that I was unable to save any cuts after editing a file. When TyStudio crashed, which it did quite ofen, I had to reindex and re-edit the files from scratch. Very annoying since it crashed a lot. I'd like to think this bug has been fixed in the newer version. I had problems with edits and issues with audio synch but as indicated I haven't tried the latest version. It's a bit more complex to set up and may require some interaction on the part of the user as the tyindex and tyserver apps that reside on the Tivo have a tendency to quit and may need to be restarted manually from bash.

3. mfs_ftp - Allows extraction in several different formats but does not have any processing capabilities. It allows the use of any number of commercial FTP programs to be used for video extraction. If files are extracted in tmf format they may be uploaded to another Tivo for playback. The only limitation is that you cannot use files with Dolby Digital soundtracks recorded on a DTivo for uploading to a SA Tivo. Other than that you can mix and match files between any type of Tivo. I have never been able to get mfs_ftp functioning on any of my DTivos but I don't believe it's an issue with the software but rather a problem with my home network that I have yet been unable to resolve. Hence I have no first-hand experience with using mfs_ftp.

4. Mfs_stream with Tivoweb - Allows extraction via your web browser using Tivoweb. Some may find this attractive since you also get to use Tivoweb as an added bonus using your web browser. You can download multiple files simultaneously but the available bandwidth is divided by the number of files you have downloading at any given time. I believe the default number of files you can transfer at the same time is four.

[SteveJenkins]

Excellent - then it sounds like my gut feel for using TyTools in the tutorial was right. Thanks for the quick reply.

I've never messed with "reverse extraction" however (uploading files from one TiVo onto another). I've got two SVR-2000 SAs so I may mess with that a bit myself!

I'll be sure to post here again in the How To thread when my Extraction how-to is complete. Has anyone written an extraction FAQ I can reference?

Best,

Steve

[captain_video]

There isn't a specific FAQ on extraction. I actually started to write one for extraction and DVD creation but never got very far with it. There is a FAQ in the DirecTivo Hacking Forum that has some info on extraction in it. The FAQ covers the basics of each extraction program and has info on setting up a Turbonet. I haven't had a chance to update it to include any info on the series 2 models yet. There is some info on the series 2 models in the series 2 hacking forum and the MIPS versions of the TyTool support files (i.e. NowShowing.tcl and tserver_mfs7). However, these can also found in the main TyTool sticky thread in this forum.

[rc3105]

one thing most folks don't realize is that mpg isn't necesarily the better-than-sliced-bread answer for archiving / viewing recordings. until a year or so ago it was the only option, but then again, the ty->mpg utils didn't work worth a damn a year ago either

reasons NOT to make mpg-dvd's

the tivo interface is better than most dvd players

tivo-mpg is inherantly wacky unless you transcode it

divx-xvid-wmv will compress with equal quality but MUCH smaller filesizes (if you do decide to transcode)

pc mplayer & X-BoxMediaPlayer (XBMP) can both stream video directly off the tivo to a remote screen without extracting (a generic dvd player is $40 or so at wal-mart, an xbox is $150 & makes a FANTASTIC divx-xvid-network enabled dvd player with a little tweaking. well worth the extra $. freely available sw & 15 mins will get it going)


that said, if you still want to go ty->mpg to share with the technically challenged ;) there's a few things you should know


all the extraction methods the captain mentioned will pull ty, but mfs_ftp is the only one that includes the extended recording info (actor lists, airdate, etc) - if you don't want/need that info then it's not an issue. if you archive series it's essential

tytool will get you most of the way to a dvd, but the mpg/vob it produces is incompatible with MANY mpg utils and players. if you need to edit/transcode down the line you're s.o.l.

tystudio still has a few bugs in the editing gui, but the mpg it produces works in any utility that can handle vbr. I personally don't use tyeditor, I run typrocess with these options

typrocess -d 3 -i infile.ty -o outfile.mpg -mplex { -V -f 3 } -demux

then import the file into whatever mpg editor or dvd authoring sw I feel like using. (or convert to dv to load into the camcorder to use as a video walkman :p )


a guide for the barely-knows-where-the-power-switch-is-noob should probably stick to tytool

for anybody that allready knows how to rip a dvd & what to do with the vob/mpg... typrocess will let them just use the video instead of getting bogged down in a hundred tivo specific issues

[gbinma]

Steve, I have lurked in the forum for some time and actually have had some limited success with extraction. I don't spend much time with this and find I need to relearn and read many messages each time I return. I consider myself a newbie and would greatly welcome a tutorial based on Tytool.

I've used your other tutorials and really appreciate them. This is a great forum. The people very helpful. jdiner's tools are amazing. He's done a tremendous job and is so helpful. Still, the whole process is a bit intimidating for those of us who only dabble with video. Your How-to can be a real contribution. Thanks for offering to write it.

gbinmass

[sanderton]

A version of your How To that continued into extraction would be superb. I've lost count of how many people I've pointed at your Networking page.

I've tried most of the tools out recently, and I would "lead" on TyTool for DVD creation, but also include mfs_ftp for archiving/re-insertion, and TyShow for playing ty video directly.

I now only use TyStudio if I want to extract a very small segement of a long recording without pulling the lot onto my PC.

[captain_video]

tivo-mpg is inherantly wacky unless you transcode it

I believe this is true only with SA Tivo ty files. With SA Tivo ty files you have the problem of transcoding the audio. With DirecTivo files you have to patch the video but it doesn't require any transcoding. There will always be the issue of ty files being non-standard in the mpeg department due to the nature of the Tivo beast.

Noobs really need to read the docs that jdiner has included with the TyTool releases. Most, if not all, of the info you need to use TyTool is included with each release. The only info he no longer includes is the setup instructions for installing the NowShowing.tcl and tserver_mfsX files on the Tivo side. There's a sticky in the Extraction forum called "Where are the files?" posted by Snoopy. I posted a zip file in that thread containing the original installation instructions along with the tserver_mfs and NowShowing.tcl files. However, you should be using the newest files included with the latest release of TyTool8r3. The installation instructions for the Tivo files apply to any version of the files.

I agree with Riley's assessment of why not to go from ty -> DVD. Here are some of the reasons WHY you would want to do it.

1. Archive your favorite shows for viewing anytime you want.

2. Free up space on your Tivo drive if you record a ton of shows like I do.

3. Share recordings with those less fortunate to own a Tivo.

4. It's just plain fun to do.

5. It really pisses off the mods at TCF (just kidding).

[rc3105]

actually you have that exactly backwards

sa video structure depends on the encoder chip & settings that can be adjusted via tivoweb. getting usable mpg is easy, as is transcoding the audio with standard utilities

(if you don't know how to use bsweet or tivoweb that's not a technical problem...)


dtivo video is compressed by some very high end hardware with absolutely no regard for our ability to convert to mpg. it's optomized to be decompressed & displayed by a zillion cheap recievers & never seen again. turning that into mpeg usable in regular dvd players or particularly editing sw is a pretty neat trick

[bato]

For people that want to use typrocess. Mplex option defaults to -S 0 instead of what it say about 2000, so you don't need to use -S 0 (but you can if you want).

You can use a .bat file like this to create the mpg at same directory where your ty file is, only drag the ty to the .bat icon
"c:\program files\tystudio\typrocess.exe" -d 3 -i %1 -o "%~dpn1.mpg" -mplex { -V -f 3 } -demux if you want to save the mpg in other directory you can change the line to "c:\program files\tystudio\typrocess.exe" -d 3 -i %1 -o "c:\mpgfiles\%~n1.mpg" -mplex { -V -f 3 } -demux