Perspective from a total newbe

[ezman]

Well, I don't want to fan any fires but I'm just reading and trying to learn here. I'm very green to DTivo and Linux. I came here for guidance, the best and easiest way to get my unit to perform like I want, and mainly to learn something new.
There are a lot of good folks here sharing their experiences and knowledge. There are others here that disagree and like to post slams instead of being helpful, as demonstrated in this thread HERE (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=29000&perpage=15&pagenumber=1).
What was the purpose of creating this forum in the first place or your reason for joining? Was it to vent or to learn something and share that information to help others? Seems to me, the goal of this forum would be for the members to compile all of this knowledge and come up with an informative learning guide to accomplishing an end result. I know there are different hacks and ways to get there but there should be a basic way to accomplish this. A roadmap, have you.
I joined this forum with the hopes of not having to complete a course on Linux to accomplish what I want. Or, to learn Linux without attending a class, I'm cheap and hate attending classes. There are so many twists and turns, I'm getting lost in the traffic. One guide says do this so I start reading it. Then, I see another thread with another guide that leads me in a totally different direction. All proclaiming to be the best, but none have explained exactly WHY or exactly WHAT for. I'm not complaining, I REALLY appreciate those that have taken the time to document their experiences to share with us newbes.
Don't lose the memory of when you were green like me. Try to see it from the point of view that you just arrived here and just bought your first TIVO unit. Where do I go from here.
Again, thanks to ALL that share their knowledge and experience to help us "wet behind the ears" folk.

:)

[mrblack51]

Originally posted by ezman
What was the purpose of creating this forum in the first place or your reason for joining? Was it to vent or to learn something and share that information to help others? Seems to me, the goal of this forum would be for the members to compile all of this knowledge and come up with an informative learning guide to accomplishing an end result. I know there are different hacks and ways to get there but there should be a basic way to accomplish this. A roadmap, have you.

nope, this is not accurate. the goal of this forum is to explore the limits of what can be done with tivos. guides are simply a side issue created to help n00bs and allow those with knowledge to spend more time developing rather than answering the same questions all the time.

I joined this forum with the hopes of not having to complete a course on Linux to accomplish what I want. Or, to learn Linux without attending a class, I'm cheap and hate attending classes. There are so many twists and turns, I'm getting lost in the traffic. One guide says do this so I start reading it. Then, I see another thread with another guide that leads me in a totally different direction. All proclaiming to be the best, but none have explained exactly WHY or exactly WHAT for. I'm not complaining, I REALLY appreciate those that have taken the time to document their experiences to share with us newbes.
Don't lose the memory of when you were green like me. Try to see it from the point of view that you just arrived here and just bought your first TIVO unit. Where do I go from here.
Again, thanks to ALL that share their knowledge and experience to help us "wet behind the ears" folk.

the thread you pointed out contains many comments on why having many guides is detremental. if there are 5 different monte guides, all doing the same thing (obvious to the experts), but the minor differences cause questions like this. yes, we were all green at one point, however, the thread you were pointing to brings up some important issues:

1) how many guides are enough? one answer is as many as it takes. i disagree with that. i suggest only enough to cover the basics, because guides which are blindly followed cause more problems then they solve, and too many guides causes the confusion which you suggest

2) how should guides be laid out? pretty much any format is fine. however, guides should be certain to give credit where credit is due. cobelli's "guide" is nothing more than a layout change on existing info from ingineer, myself, and a few others, and yet he is getting credit for writing a "guide". does this matter in the long run? not really, but it discourages those who do put in work.

beyond that, guides should always have clear explanations of everything but the most rudementary commands. I suggest that comments in guides should follow comments that you would use when programming. just like you dont need to comment every "i++", you dont need to comment every single "cd /mnt/tivo". however, each logical step in the process should have comments. annotated versions of the guide for printing are fine, but the explanations for what is going on should be there. since we are in a web world, links should be used to allow even more information to be found on certain topics (there are single original threads on mfs_ftp, tytools, monte, the s2 hacking faq).

3) when should guides be made sticky? when the mods feel its appropriate. specifically, I will not sticky any guide which i dont feel has any new value. if there is already a guide available, then rehashes of the same type of guide aren't going to be stickied unless there is a very good reason (utilizing a different zip file of stuff is not a good reason).

now, having been a member of this board since the great breakaway from TCF back in the day, I am very aware of the history and how people come through the ranks. I appreciate the guide writers who have come before, but moreso i appreciate the true developers who are able to make great tools. since this board is about development, they should not be burdened with support if they choose to not support their tools. and if people dont like that, then they shouldnt use the tools.

[ezman]

Originally posted by mrblack51
nope, this is not accurate. the goal of this forum is to explore the limits of what can be done with tivos. guides are simply a side issue created to help n00bs and allow those with knowledge to spend more time developing rather than answering the same questions all the time.

Well, to become a productive part of this forum, you have to have the basic tools to begin with. This shouldn't be a SIDE issue. You have to develop new folks with new ideas in order to sustain any progress.

the thread you pointed out contains many comments on why having many guides is detremental. if there are 5 different monte guides, all doing the same thing (obvious to the experts), but the minor differences cause questions like this. yes, we were all green at one point, however, the thread you were pointing to brings up some important issues:

1) how many guides are enough? one answer is as many as it takes. i disagree with that. i suggest only enough to cover the basics, because guides which are blindly followed cause more problems then they solve, and too many guides causes the confusion which you suggest

Excellent support of my point.

2) how should guides be laid out? pretty much any format is fine. however, guides should be certain to give credit where credit is due. cobelli's "guide" is nothing more than a layout change on existing info from ingineer, myself, and a few others, and yet he is getting credit for writing a "guide". does this matter in the long run? not really, but it discourages those who do put in work.

I believe he stated that he just took the time to COMPILE the works of others. I believe he said that in THIS (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26023) thread.

DISCLAIMER: None of the hacking in this guide was discovered by the author (Cobelli). The following is instead a compilation of other people’s work organized in an easy-to-follow manner. Credit is given to the appropriate individual when possible.


beyond that, guides should always have clear explanations of everything but the most rudementary commands. I suggest that comments in guides should follow comments that you would use when programming. just like you dont need to comment every "i++", you dont need to comment every single "cd /mnt/tivo". however, each logical step in the process should have comments. annotated versions of the guide for printing are fine, but the explanations for what is going on should be there. since we are in a web world, links should be used to allow even more information to be found on certain topics (there are single original threads on mfs_ftp, tytools, monte, the s2 hacking faq).

3) when should guides be made sticky? when the mods feel its appropriate. specifically, I will not sticky any guide which i dont feel has any new value. if there is already a guide available, then rehashes of the same type of guide aren't going to be stickied unless there is a very good reason (utilizing a different zip file of stuff is not a good reason).

I will limit my reading to the stickys for now. Hopefully, this will help eliminate some confusion for me. Might I suggest setting up a Guide section and have Admin or Mods move only relevant, current and originally authored guides into that section. Might help eliminate confusion to newbes like myself.

now, having been a member of this board since the great breakaway from TCF back in the day, I am very aware of the history and how people come through the ranks. I appreciate the guide writers who have come before, but moreso i appreciate the true developers who are able to make great tools. since this board is about development, they should not be burdened with support if they choose to not support their tools. and if people dont like that, then they shouldnt use the tools.

Thanks for your replies. There are peeps out here that would like to learn and become a productive part of the TIVO community. New minds can contribute new ideas. Thanks again for all those that contribute to help others learn. I hope to be a contributor myself.

[othy]

I guess I'll chime in with my own newbie perspective, since the thread has come up.

<ramble>
I think everybody realizes that there are two extremes with newbies in any area of interest: on one hand are people who are new, but genuinely interested in learning; on the other hand are people who simply want the information handed to them.

I can't recall seeing posts giving people in the first group a hard time. Furthermore, I completely understand the frustration that members have with the second group, and because I keep that in mind, I don't have a problem with the "tone" (for lack of a good word) that the discussions sometimes take--it would be rude to simply show up and ask people to spoon-feed me (or worse yet, EXPECT them to spoon feed me!).

I think that the OP brings up part of the problem. New users probably do see the purpose of the forum as creating a guide, but that's just not the case.

When I first started reading here, I was overwhelmed by the information. The guides (in some cases), help pull some of that together, but in the end, I ended up going to the respective threads and reading them anyway.

Newbies come here expecting to find a digital book, with all of the information they seek neatly organized and referenced. I suppose that would be helpful, but if that's what they want, they should just head for the bookstore; the strength of a forum such as this is that it is dynamic. Unfortunately, dynamic means that it doesn't have a table of contents, though the search button does work wonders ;)
</ramble>

Anyway, I'm not sure there's a point to all of this. I was meaning to post to thank people for the various threads. The stickies were helpful, though it usually took 2-3 complete reads for me to really get it!

Remember: for every newbie that logs in and immediately posts a thread asking stupid questions, there are many lurkers who have gotten up and running without being too much of a nuisance!

So, thanks to everybody who posts here. Based on your information, I decided on a DSR7000, bought it, built a serial cable, installed a 120 gig drive, learned enough linux to be dangerous to myself and those in the immediate vicinity, monte'd the kernel, and installed some basic hacks (tivotitle, etc.). All this with only a few posts to my name, and even some of those were trying to answer questions. Now if I could just get cron working ;)

Anyway, because of you guys, the fiance and I have a great new tivo. As everyone always says, the information is here, if you'll take a little time to dig it up!

thanks,
othy

[NutKase]

Originally posted by othy
So, thanks to everybody who posts here. Based on your information, I decided on a DSR7000, bought it, built a serial cable, installed a 120 gig drive, learned enough linux to be dangerous to myself and those in the immediate vicinity, monte'd the kernel, and installed some basic hacks (tivotitle, etc.). All this with only a few posts to my name, and even some of those were trying to answer questions. Now if I could just get cron working ;)

Anyway, because of you guys, the fiance and I have a great new tivo. As everyone always says, the information is here, if you'll take a little time to dig it up! [/B]

Well said. Good job on your hacks and welcome to the group.

NutKase

[captain_video]

I hesitated to get involved in this thread since the one ezman referenced was mine. This is not meant to open any old wounds but there were a couple of comments made that I feel deserve some clarification. It seems that part of the original controversy regarding the aforementioned thread stemmed from my initial response about having "as many guides as it takes." The response was a bit sarcastic and got blown out of proportion as a result. For that I wish to apologize to any and all concerned that may have misconstrued my intentions.

What I meant by that statement was that it would take as many guides as there are hacking methods that may require the support of a step-by-step tutorial. I didn't mean to imply that there should be multiple guides for the same exact hack. That would definitely be confusing and non-productive, unless the initial guide presented was confusing and caused more problems than it solved. Not all hacks are presented with supporting documentation. The montestuff.zip file didn't have a readme and was somewhat confusing as to how it should have been used, hence the reason for putting the guide together in the first place.

guides are simply a side issue created to help n00bs and allow those with knowledge to spend more time developing rather than answering the same questions all the time.


This was one of the primary reasons for "creating" the guide in hopes of alleviating the repetitive questions that get posted time after time in these forums. There had not been any discussion on the montestuff.zip files prior to my posting the thread so I was looking to fill a niche and nothing more. Apparently somebody is finding it useful due to the number of downloads that have taken place since it was reposted (over 250 downloads total between the two threads).

I agree 100% about giving credit where it's due. I never claimed to take any credit for developing the info in the guide but I also didn't list many specific names as to who did, mainly because I was probably too lazy to look them up at the time. I firmly believe that the developers should get full credit and not those using the info for their own purposes.

guides should always have clear explanations of everything but the most rudementary commands.

I would agree with that up to a point. If a guide is meant to be nothing more than a step by step set of instructions for performing a hack as mine was then I'd have to disagree. The guide contained mostly the rudimentary commands of which you spoke but anything specific to the monte hack was already covered in the monte thread. I recommended to anyone using the guide that they read through the monte thread first to gain an understanding of what they were about to attempt, eliminating the need to post redundant info in the guide.

The guide was meant to give the user something to follow along with and is more of a placeholder than anything else. I've been a technical writer for almost 27 years and I've never seen a manual that mixed theory of operation in with procedural steps. It just isn't done anywhere in the industry. The "How To" and the "Why For" are two completely different topics of discussion and never get combined unless you have separate chapters in a manual. Since I wasn't trying to write a full-blown manual I didn't see how including the "Why For" info was relevent. If you want to understand how a hack works then you should read up on it first. I'd shudder to think what an aviator would do if he sat there reading theory info while going through his flight checklist. You learn before you leap and not while you're plummeting to the ground.

What needs to be made a sticky? I'm still trying to figure that one out myself. The stickys are riddled with guides that do nothing but provide the same kind of step-by-step info that I provided. Don't take my word for it, see for yourself. The extraction forum has a multitude of guides scattered all ovwer the place and I'd be surprised if very many of them discuss the rationale behind the instructions they provide. I'm not saying that mine should have been made a sticky since that's not my call anyway. It may be a rehash of existing guides but it is a variation of a theme intended for a specific scenario. Perhaps if it had been melded with d7o's guide to combine both procedures then it may have seemed less confusing.

I reposted the guide in a new thread following the close of the aforementioned thread. This time I outlined the purpose of the guide and included disclaimers to avoid any further conflict about the way it is formatted and presented. Once I made my position clear there ceased to be any negative posts in the thread.

[David Bought]

Originally posted by captain_video
If you want to understand how a hack works then you should read up on it first. I'd shudder to think what an aviator would do if he sat there reading theory info while going through his flight checklist. You learn before you leap and not while you're plummeting to the ground.

I am glad that you understand the often overlooked time critical and life safety critical aspects of TiVo hacking. It is your unprecedented ability to draw parallels between two completely unrelated activities that showcases your value to this board and to the video-game-looking freetv site you moderate.

For this I say, thank you, captain_video.

[captain_video]

Now there's a post from someone I never expected to hear from. Like a moth to a flame! DB, you're getting too darn predictable.

Now I'd really like to know how your post provides anything beneficial to the general population. It appears to be nothing more than a lame attempt at ridiculing me for no apparent reason. I don't believe my previous post had anything to do with you (other than being the reason for the aforementioned thread's deterioration and ultimate demise) so why do you feel compelled to jump right in and impart your fabulous wit upon us? Do you get some perverse pleasure at being mean and vindictive or were you simply abused as a child (assuming you ever got past puberty)? Now go away and annoy someone else for a while and let the adults have their conversation.

[ezman]

Well, I have to apologize. Didn't come here with the intention of starting a flaming war. Just wanted to give some constructive criticism and point out a few observations about Guides. Appears I have dropped into the wrong forum.
I have read many threads here and saw the comment that developers and programmers have abandoned this forum or become MIA. Now I understand why. I seriously don't think they were fed up with answering questions and supporting their work, just read this and other threads and you might understand why they left. Most genuine people are proud of their work and accomplishments and are eager to share their knowledge with those with the same passion.
I see this forum is talored ONLY for the exchange of ideas from experienced folks and does not care for n00bs, as you put it. That's the overall mood of the forum. There ARE however, some few folks that remember what it was like getting started and try not to BASH the hopes of others trying to learn. To those, I say thank you. Maybe I'll run into you on another, more N00B friendly forum.

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by mrblack51
since this board is about development, they should not be burdened with support if they choose to not support their tools. and if people dont like that, then they shouldnt use the tools.

That's a total cop out. If they want to develop and not support their code, then why not just leave it on sourceforge and be done with it. This board "was" about sharing, and to a reduced degree still is. But the hostility level exhibited by the mods towards many, new and old, has pushed this place downhill for a long time.

[mrblack51]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
That's a total cop out. If they want to develop and not support their code, then why not just leave it on sourceforge and be done with it. This board "was" about sharing, and to a reduced degree still is. But the hostility level exhibited by the mods towards many, new and old, has pushed this place downhill for a long time.

no, this board "is" about sharing, no reduction about it. the hostility you are suggesting is a personal problem rather than a general issue.

if someone wants to post something, great. if they want to support it, even better. if they want to leave it and then disappear, thats fine too. if people like it, then it will be supported, if they don't like it, it will wither and die.

The main reason i have noticed hostility on this board is due to the type of people that have come here lately. while many of the n00bs are just fine, this board has gotten a reputation from the dtv hacking boards (i won't mention people from this board who i have seen pumping ddb in the wrong light on them) where ddb is labeled as a pirate board akin to a dtv hacking board for tivos. as such, many have come here, with a freetv'er attitude and have asked for hacks which are explicitly against the rules. they have generally been dealt with politely, but when they strike back, they are smoten accordingly. now, how about you put your differences aside and spend your time contributing bubblelamp.

[David Bought]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
That's a total cop out. If they want to develop and not support their code, then why not just leave it on sourceforge and be done with it.

When did sourceforge turn into a Tivo development board? And when did they install a usable forum system? Mailing lists don't count.

If a particular piece of unsupported software raises your ire, then start telling the newbies not to use it. Even better, create an alternative. For example, look at the various ways I help save people from falling into the insidious trap that is corbelli's guide.

Until you start producing solutions to problems like myself and the other TIVO GODs have done, shove it. We don't need another whiner; we get a few dozen new ones every week.

This board "was" about sharing, and to a reduced degree still is. But the hostility level exhibited by the mods towards many, new and old, has pushed this place downhill for a long time.

Why are you still here?

Oh, maybe you're still here because DDB is the only Tivo development board where you can talk about anything that won't get the site shut down. As opposed to the sites where talking about almost anything beyond installing a larger "A" drive will cause the thread to disappear overnight. You may hate the mods but you must acknowledge that they are not drinking from Tivo's teet.

Or maybe you're here because there are no other good Tivo dev boards which see more than three posts in a month?

Or maybe you're here because myself and the mods help keep the stupid questions and stupid people under control.

We know you like it here despite your conspiracy theories and professed loathing of the mods. Enjoy your stay. :D

[BubbleLamp]

Originally posted by mrblack51
the hostility you are suggesting is a personal problem rather than a general issue.

If it's a personal problem, then why does this thread exist? Could it be others notice the attitude? Why don't you dial it down a notch and see what happens.

[David Bought]

Originally posted by BubbleLamp
If it's a personal problem, then why does this thread exist? Could it be others notice the attitude? Why don't you dial it down a notch and see what happens.

Lines of code contributed by TIVO GODs like myself: tens or hundreds of thousands
Lines of code contributed by newbies: zero
Lines of code contributed by BubbleLamp: zero

Tell me again why you think it is so appropriate for the two most useless groups to be dictating policy?

Oh, that's right. It's not. :D

[captain_video]

Lines of code contributed by TIVO GODs like myself: tens or hundreds of thousands

Perhaps this applies to lines of code contributed by others but certainly not by you. Aside from the occasional Linux command line posted in response to a thread, you have contributed zero in the way of constructive software programs or scripts. If you put half as much energy into developing something useful as you do criticizing software that has become the widely used standard for Tivo hacking then perhaps you'd actually become the self-professed Tivo God you claim to be instead of the site's mascot Tivo Troll. This site used to be a great place for newbies and experienced hackers alike but it's taken a steady downhill turn since the first day you arrived here.

[David Bought]

Originally posted by captain_video
If you put half as much energy into developing something useful as you do criticizing software that has become the widely used standard for Tivo hacking

Which "criticized" software are you referring to? Certainly not a buggy backup/restore package which is unmaintained, closed-source, and contains stolen GPL code?

And I have developed a lot of very useful software, which I share freely with the other TIVO GODs. Maybe someday you will spend your time actually learning how the Tivo works instead of writing 40 page screeds whining about how you are treated by your intellectual superiors here. :D

[captain_video]

Which "criticized" software are you referring to? Certainly not a buggy backup/restore package which is unmaintained, closed-source, and contains stolen GPL code?

Yes, I am referring to MFS Tools 2.0. It may not be perfect but the fact remains that it works. There are probably very few hackers here that have not used it at one time or another. Cobelli's guide is another prime example. It may be flawed but it has helped many others perform the BASH_ENV hack on their Tivos with no help from the likes of you, not that it would have been forthcoming anyway. It is quite evident that you have no love for newbies and bash anyone that comes up with utilities or guides, no matter how well-written, that have the sole intention of helping newbies to help themselves. Your philosophy seems to be that if someone doesn't know Linux frontwards and backwards then they are beneath you and not worthy of your guidance. God forbid you should have to bring yourself down to their level and lend a helping hand.

And I have developed a lot of very useful software, which I share freely with the other TIVO GODs. Maybe someday you will spend your time actually learning how the Tivo works instead of writing 40 page screeds whining about how you are treated by your intellectual superiors here.

Really, then how about enlightening the rest of us to your vast accomplishments. You talk the talk but I have yet to see you walk the walk. Hmmm, I don't seem to recall any "40 page screeds" about anyone here that I consider my intellectual superior. If you are referring to yourself then that is quite amusing. I've always acknowledged that you know more about Linux than I do but you've got a lot to learn about interacting with humans. I get along with the "Tivo Gods" just fine, I just don't consider you to be one of them. I learned at an early age that it was sacrilege to worship false Gods. I'm surprised you haven't beeen struck down by lighting for your blasphemy.

You seem to be the only one in the entire Tivo Hacking Community that considers himself to be some sort of deity. More like Lord of the Flies since you seem to have a propensity for toilet humor. You claimed in another thread that this forum is a family forum (while ironically adding a bit of profanity into the mix), yet you seem to do your best to ensure it becomes a dysphunctional one. I have come to the realization that you will never change and that you will always be a butthead. A mind is such a terrible thing to waste!

[David Bought]

Originally posted by captain_video
Yes, I am referring to MFS Tools 2.0. It may not be perfect but the fact remains that it works.

It's a piece of crap for the reasons I mentioned, but nobody has written a (public) replacement. So be it.

Cobelli's guide is another prime example. It may be flawed but it has helped many others perform the BASH_ENV hack on their Tivos

No, corbelli's guide is redundant and harmful. Those of us who took the time to read the stickies before we started have no use for corbelli's guide, and ironically enough we are the only contributors here.

OTOH, mfstools, flawed as it is, has proven useful for almost everybody. That does not excuse the author's code theft and broken promises.

bash anyone that comes up with utilities or guides, no matter how well-written,

Wrong. I critique poorly written guides, like yours and corbelli's. Don't take it personally.

Really, then how about enlightening the rest of us to your vast accomplishments.

I have a better idea. Why don't you enlighten us as to how you, after 2882 posts and 1.5 years on this forum, still don't even understand how a simple tcl script or the Tivo boot process works?

[Tiros]

Originally posted by David Bought

Until you start producing solutions to problems like myself and the other TIVO GODs have done, shove it. We don't need another whiner; we get a few dozen new ones every week.

Lines of code contributed by TIVO GODs like myself: tens or hundreds of thousands

If a particular piece of unsupported software raises your ire, then start telling the newbies not to use it. Even better, create an alternative. For example, look at the various ways I help save people from falling into the insidious trap that is corbelli's guide.

I have a better idea. Why don't you enlighten us as to how you, after 2882 posts and 1.5 years on this forum, still don't even understand how a simple tcl script or the Tivo boot process works?



I was going to keep quiet but since you insist on referring to yourself as a "GOD" who "provides solutions"...

Where is YOUR "alternative"? How EXACTLY have you "saved" anybody? Be specific!
Please provide some detail on exactly what solutions you have provided. You have been repeatedly asked about this. You always respond to other statements about yourself but are noticably silent when asked to be specific.

It's not a "better idea" your just dodging the issue AGAIN that you can't provide any detail on your accomplishments.You always pick some other part of the post about you to criticize, but you always fail to reply to this point. I really can't believe you have the balls to advise others to "start providing solutions such as myself" When you can't point to ANYTHING you have personally done.

Put up or shut up you wannabe God,Mod,Developer.

You are not a "GOD"
You are not a "Developer"
You are not a "Mod"

The most telling thing about you DB is that you never respond directly to this issue!

[David Bought]

Originally posted by Tiros
Please provide some detail on exactly what solutions you have provided.

None of your damn business.

I share a good deal of code with people who have helped me. You (a complete non contributor) are not in that group, nor are the majority of posters here. You are nothing more than a whiner; somebody who has made a minor contribution to a pointless console hacking project and has made no contribution to any Tivo hacking project. You are another nobody here, lurking in the shadow of the TIVO GODs.

Out of the goodness of my heart I come here to share my vast Tivo knowledge and to clean up the trash. I demand respect for that, and fortunately I get that respect from the few people on this board whose opinions matter.

[captain_video]

I have a better idea. Why don't you ...

Got your top hat and cane going again? It's amazing how many direct questions you manage to avoid when confronted about your credentials or actual contributions to this forum.

Originally posted by Tiros
Please provide some detail on exactly what solutions you have provided.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

None of your damn business.


Actual interpretation: Diddly Squat! I would think that a "Tivo God" would be proud of his accomplishments and more than happy to share them with others. Instead you consistently sidestep the issue, leading us all to the inevitable conclusion that you have done nothing you claim and are basically just full of s**t. Just tell us what you've done and we'll stop asking. BTW, some form of proof will be required as confirmation that you're not just shining us on. Abstention or changing of the subject will simply be an admission that you have done nothing.

Out of the goodness of my heart I come here to share my vast Tivo knowledge and to clean up the trash. I demand respect for that, and fortunately I get that respect from the few people on this board whose opinions matter.

What goodness and what heart? If you really want to clean up the trash then wrap yourself in a Glad Bag and be done with it! You are in no position to demand anything from anyone here, especially respect. You do nothing but disrespect the hard work of others while setting yourself up on some kind of pedestal expecting adoration from your so-called fans. You get what you give.

[Tiros]

Originally posted by David Bought
None of your damn business.

I share a good deal of code with people who have helped me. You (a complete non contributor) are not in that group, nor are the majority of posters here. You are nothing more than a whiner; somebody who has made a minor contribution to a pointless console hacking project and has made no contribution to any Tivo hacking project. You are another nobody here, lurking in the shadow of the TIVO GODs.

Out of the goodness of my heart I come here to share my vast Tivo knowledge and to clean up the trash. I demand respect for that, and fortunately I get that respect from the few people on this board whose opinions matter.

Couldn't answer the question, more avoidance. AS PREDICTED!
Thanks for pointing out my pointless contribution. Pity you can't point to any of your own.
I'm not the one running my mouth all over this forum spouting that I am a God and how much I have contributed either. If all I have to do is say that I shared my code with unnamed others, and dont have to specify who, what , where or when then I guess I qualify for "GOD" status too.

You "Demand respect"!!??
Respect is earned, not given. Didn't your parents teach you anything?

[David Bought]

Originally posted by captain_video
You do nothing but disrespect the hard work of others while setting yourself up on some kind of pedestal expecting adoration from your so-called fans. You get what you give.

Wrong. I give accurate, detailed answers to intelligent questions, and I even lend a helping hand from time to time to people like you who are too lazy or ignorant to do their own homework.

You, on the other hand, do nothing but post long useless rants. You read nothing and you understand nothing. You are proud of the fact that "I have no use for [Linux] elsewhere in my life so learning it would yield diminishing returns" - almost three thousand posts and you don't even understand the basics of the operating system you're using! The fact that your own Tivos still work at all is a testament to the success of special education programs in this country.

Why the hell do you spend so much time here if all you can do is memorize the content of a few how-to guides?

Originally posted by Tiros
If all I have to do is say that I shared my code with unnamed others, and dont have to specify who, what , where or when then I guess I qualify for "GOD" status too.

If and only if you can back it up with knowledgeable posts as I have. However, judging from the extreme difficulty (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27563) you experienced trying to use a hex editor, a quick glance through your posting history will show proof positive that you really have no idea what you are doing.

[Tiros]

Originally posted by David Bought
If and only if you can back it up with knowledgeable posts as I have. However, judging from the extreme difficulty (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27563) you experienced trying to use a hex editor, a quick glance through your posting history will show proof positive that you really have no idea what you are doing.

I'm glad you provided the link to demonstrate one of MY contributions. Once again you have failed to provide any of your own. If you have the time to find mine, why can't you find any of your own? Perhaps because there aren't any!

I was trying to help the other guy who couldn't use the hex editor, and I did so by contributing a DD command to patch the 30 second skip. Unlike you, who only contributed your own personal brand of BS. How you imagine you helped in that thread is known only to your twisted mind.

I will continue to reply every time you quote me, until you answer the question. Why don't you drop it? You are a loser.

Once again you have failed to provide any proof any of your own contributions
"None of your damn business" Good comeback Dave.

[captain_video]

Tap, tap, tap! Is it not possible for you to answer a simple question? You lose credibility with every post that avoids the issue.

Wrong. I give accurate, detailed answers to intelligent questions, and I even lend a helping hand from time to time to people like you who are too lazy or ignorant to do their own homework.

I've never asked you for a damn thing and you certainly haven't offered of your own free will. You will more likely tell someone to go "google" than provide them with a simple answer. Unless someone asks you a specific Linux question so you can show off your expertise you generally answer with some snide remark in a condescending tone. FYI, I spent many months lurking in this forum while "doing my homework" so that I could understand exactly what's going on. I hacked my first 4 or 5 Tivos (both SA and DTivo models) using the info I had learned from the AVS Forums and DDB with a 100% success rate without ever posting a single question.

You, on the other hand, do nothing but post long useless rants. You read nothing and you understand nothing. You are proud of the fact that "I have no use for [Linux] elsewhere in my life so learning it would yield diminishing returns" - almost three thousand posts and you don't even understand the basics of the operating system you're using! The fact that your own Tivos still work at all is a testament to the success of special education programs in this country.


Again, you're reading what suits you into believing, plus you're continuing to throw personal jabs in your replies. It's that sort of attitude that has turned these threads into all-out pissing contests. The truth is, I don't have any use for Linux outside of hacking a Tivo. I don't make it my life's work since I actually have a life. If I had the luxury of taking the time to learn it I would make the attempt but I have a hectic schedule both at work and at home. I may not have an in-depth understanding of Linux but I do understand the basics. You are making assumptions based on personal feelings and not anything factual. The fact that my Tivos and many more that belong to others I have helped is a testimonial to this forum and those that have helped me in the past.

[David Bought]

Originally posted by Tiros
I'm glad you provided the link to demonstrate one of MY contributions.

If converting a hex number into decimal counts as a "contribution", my posting history is chock full of similarly trivial "contributions".

Finding them will be left as an exercise to the reader. I don't have to prove anything to you.

[Tiros]

I will continue to reply every time you quote me, until you answer the question.
I, unlike you, have never professed to be a "God", "Mod", or a major contributor. All this could be put to bed and you could bury me if you would just "PUT UP OR SHUT UP", but you cant!
Why don't you drop it? You are a loser.
Once again you have failed to provide any proof any of your own contributions
"None of your damn business" Good comeback Dave.

[CableNOT]

Almighty Bought,

You don't know me, so you have nothing to attack me with.

The point is valid. PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

For the past year, I have read everything here that relates to HDVR2. I don't seem to remember any 'hacks' of yours EVER being discussed. I do remember several threads that were closed because you can't behave yourself.

You are not a "GOD" (and the reference is offensive)
You are not a "Developer"
You are not a "Mod" (and they remind you frequently)


Show us what you have. We all wait with anticipation...

[David Bought]

Originally posted by captain_video
If I had the luxury of taking the time to learn it I would make the attempt but I have a hectic schedule both at work and at home

BWAHAHAHA... what, is Northrop Grommet paying you to reply to every single newbie thread here and at the service theft site?

[AlphaWolf]

Just on a personal note, I think that some of you guys who haven't contributed anything technical yet complain a lot do cross the line. Specifically, I recall when a lot of people were rude to Leo Laporte when he visited this forum back in May. Almost all of those who made those comments have never contributed anything at all, and to this day these comments seem to continue overall. (btw, even if you didn't like the segment, I still don't see what the point of making those comments were, because they were more derogatory than critique)

[captain_video]

BWAHAHAHA... what, is Northrop Grommet paying you to reply to every single newbie thread here and at the service theft site?

Again, you insist on posting something personal that has nothing to do with you or anyone in this forum. Your hypocrisy amazes me. You will insist that others not post personal attacks yet it seems to be your bread and butter when replying to my posts. It is uncalled for and completely unprofessional. Is this how you demand respect from others?

Just on a personal note, I think that some of you guys who haven't contributed anything technical yet complain a lot do cross the line.

I'd have to agree with you, especially the part about Leo getting a rude welcome. That was truly sad for someone of his notariety to be greeted in such a manner, especially when it was clear that he supported the efforts of this site.

Bought occasionally throws out a one-liner that is useful when the topic is based on a Linux function but I have yet to see him contribute anything to the masses. I have asked him to validate the contributions he has made because, quite frankly, they have completely escaped me or have been so far under the radar that no one has noticed them. The guy obviously has the brains but unfortunately has a dysphunctional personality to go along with it.

[David Bought]

Originally posted by captain_video
Again, you insist on posting something personal that has nothing to do with you or anyone in this forum.

WHEN (not if) you post something stupid, I will correct you. Just like I did above.

Bought occasionally throws out a one-liner that is useful when the topic is based on a Linux function but I have yet to see him contribute anything to the masses. I have asked him to validate the contributions he has made

What part of "I don't spoon feed anybody" are you having trouble understanding?

If you don't comprehend my answers, either ask for clarification of specific ambiguities (not spoon feeding) or talk to the Google.

[captain_video]

Once again he sidesteps the question. I wonder how many posts it will take before you finally let us know what your accomplishments really are. Right now I'm guessing they don't amount to much since you keep avoiding the topic. Most people would consider such avoidance as fraudulent behaviour. You claim to have done so much for us yet you can't tell us exactly what it is you've done. Come on, DB, we're all waiting to hear of your greatness. Apparently you've convinced yourself of it so how about letting the rest of us in on the secret?

[David Bought]

Originally posted by captain_video
Once again he sidesteps the question. I wonder how many posts it will take before you finally let us know what your accomplishments really are. Right now I'm guessing they don't amount to much since you keep avoiding the topic. Most people would consider such avoidance as fraudulent behaviour. You claim to have done so much for us yet you can't tell us exactly what it is you've done. Come on, DB, we're all waiting to hear of your greatness. Apparently you've convinced yourself of it so how about letting the rest of us in on the secret?

1) http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/search.php?s=

2) For everything else, there's MYOFB.

[captain_video]

1) http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/search.php?s=

2) For everything else, there's MYOFB.

Cute, but that won't cut it. If I was looking for a collection of bad and insulting one-liners I'd go to a comedy club and watch Don Rickles. As for #2, you've made it MOFB with your insidious posts. Put up or shut up (I believe that's been said before and it still hasn't sunk in).

[David Bought]

Originally posted by captain_video
Cute, but that won't cut it. If I was looking for a collection of bad and insulting one-liners I'd go to a comedy club and watch Don Rickles. As for #2, you've made it MOFB with your insidious posts. Put up or shut up (I believe that's been said before and it still hasn't sunk in).

It's amazing what a search will turn up if you take the time to do it.

[captain_video]

Keep it up DB and some day you'll be a great wit. Right now you're only halfway there.

[amgqmp1]

Here's my contribution...

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29802

and here...

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29648

What's with calling people "n00bs"? (my god, go back to your little IRC rooms with that HaX0R talk)

Also, where do I get a Janitor to clean up the org. a bit (see one of my above contributions) and then stay away from the novice user areas? Even with the board being cluttered the way it is, people like the Janitor should be going into forums where those of their stature should be participating.

Any deity worth respecting wouldn't run around insulting those below him/her. "And you can take that to the bank!"

[baje55]

Originally posted by captain_video
I hesitated to get involved in this thread since the one ezman referenced was mine. This is not meant to open any old wounds but there were a couple of comments made that I feel deserve some clarification. It seems that part of the original controversy regarding the aforementioned thread stemmed from my initial response about having "as many guides as it takes." The response was a bit sarcastic and got blown out of proportion as a result. For that I wish to apologize to any and all concerned that may have misconstrued my intentions.

What I meant by that statement was that it would take as many guides as there are hacking methods that may require the support of a step-by-step tutorial. I didn't mean to imply that there should be multiple guides for the same exact hack. That would definitely be confusing and non-productive, unless the initial guide presented was confusing and caused more problems than it solved. Not all hacks are presented with supporting documentation. The montestuff.zip file didn't have a readme and was somewhat confusing as to how it should have been used, hence the reason for putting the guide together in the first place.

This was one of the primary reasons for "creating" the guide in hopes of alleviating the repetitive questions that get posted time after time in these forums. There had not been any discussion on the montestuff.zip files prior to my posting the thread so I was looking to fill a niche and nothing more. Apparently somebody is finding it useful due to the number of downloads that have taken place since it was reposted (over 250 downloads total between the two threads).

I agree 100% about giving credit where it's due. I never claimed to take any credit for developing the info in the guide but I also didn't list many specific names as to who did, mainly because I was probably too lazy to look them up at the time. I firmly believe that the developers should get full credit and not those using the info for their own purposes ....................................................................................................


Captain, I couldn't agree with you more. By the way, you and a very few people on this forum have always shown a sense of decorum and respect for the ability and/or ignorance of newbies and others, but they are some like Mr. Black51, David to name a few have not learned anything about respect. Respect is commanded not demanded and earned, and as "Senior members" of this forum, they need to understand that forums of this nature need people, and need learners and teachers not "flamers", facetiousness nor insults.

Chill out and behave like the Captain and you will earn respect and others will learn from you.

As for the newbie who started this thread, I agree with him 100%. We all came here to learn, and when you read the guides, and "How-to" you end up more confused than before you began. We are not asking peeps to be Manual writers, but somewhere along the line, there should be a concerted effort among the site owners, mods etc. to come up with a section that really helps the new persons who are getting or want to get a Tivo. Take a hint from Sleeper who has done a terrric job in so much that it has helped a lot of people.

Peace, I say, and let's all learn to get along.

[baje55]

Originally posted by ezman
Well, I don't want to fan any fires but I'm just reading and trying to learn here. I'm very green to DTivo and Linux. I came here for guidance, the best and easiest way to get my unit to perform like I want, and mainly to learn something new.
There are a lot of good folks here sharing their experiences and knowledge. There are others here that disagree and like to post slams instead of being helpful, as demonstrated in this thread HERE (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=29000&perpage=15&pagenumber=1).
What was the purpose of creating this forum in the first place or your reason for joining? Was it to vent or to learn something and share that information to help others? Seems to me, the goal of this forum would be for the members to compile all of this knowledge and come up with an informative learning guide to accomplishing an end result. I know there are different hacks and ways to get there but there should be a basic way to accomplish this. A roadmap, have you.
I joined this forum with the hopes of not having to complete a course on Linux to accomplish what I want. Or, to learn Linux without attending a class, I'm cheap and hate attending classes. There are so many twists and turns, I'm getting lost in the traffic. One guide says do this so I start reading it. Then, I see another thread with another guide that leads me in a totally different direction. All proclaiming to be the best, but none have explained exactly WHY or exactly WHAT for. I'm not complaining, I REALLY appreciate those that have taken the time to document their experiences to share with us newbes.
Don't lose the memory of when you were green like me. Try to see it from the point of view that you just arrived here and just bought your first TIVO unit. Where do I go from here.
Again, thanks to ALL that share their knowledge and experience to help us "wet behind the ears" folk.

:)

Hear, hear. Well stated and as a newbie, I couldn't agree with you more.

[mrblack51]

Originally posted by baje55
Captain, I couldn't agree with you more. By the way, you and a very few people on this forum have always shown a sense of decorum and respect for the ability and/or ignorance of newbies and others, but they are some like Mr. Black51, David to name a few have not learned anything about respect. Respect is commanded not demanded and earned, and as "Senior members" of this forum, they need to understand that forums of this nature need people, and need learners and teachers not "flamers", facetiousness nor insults.

Chill out and behave like the Captain and you will earn respect and others will learn from you.

As for the newbie who started this thread, I agree with him 100%. We all came here to learn, and when you read the guides, and "How-to" you end up more confused than before you began. We are not asking peeps to be Manual writers, but somewhere along the line, there should be a concerted effort among the site owners, mods etc. to come up with a section that really helps the new persons who are getting or want to get a Tivo. Take a hint from Sleeper who has done a terrric job in so much that it has helped a lot of people.

Peace, I say, and let's all learn to get along.

excuse me? when have i been disrespectful to you? the only time people get a rude response is when they come here wanting service theft, and even then its generally a benign 'this isnt the place for that' sort of response.

while the contributions of mr. bought may be questionable, you should be careful about biting the hands that feed you. its unfortunate that you don't feel there is an attitude of respect, but you have to temper your perspective with reality. in any new place, there is a learning curve. people learn differently. however, just because there are a million ways people learn, that doesnt mean there should be a million guides.

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30090, http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28473 <- are those rude? no, i answered your questions promptly and quickly, while giving the exact info you requested. when you re-clarified, then you got the response you wanted, but what you wanted was not what you asked for initially. in fact, i find it humerous that captain video gave you the same advice that i did numerous times, and yet you list him in your list of good people, while i have ended up in the list with what appears to be the people you dislike. in fact, you have gotten perfectly valid and accurate responses even from Mr. Bought. perhaps you should re-analyze your perception of reality before lashing out.

by the way, threads with useless titles like 'newbie needs help', 'help please', 'help with ethernet', and the many other similar threads which you started cause the boards to become cluttered. please try to use existing threads whenever possible. of course, step one is not posting questions, its searching for the answer (which is out there 99.9% of the time in one way or another). by following this plan, you will not only help ensure that your searches are more effective by eliminating extraneous entries due to threads like yours, as well as helping all other newbies in the same way

[baje55]

Mr. Black51, I do apologize. You do help and have helped me in the past. In my post I made a faux pax, you are not included in that bunch of "Googles"

For this I am deeply sorry sir.

[David Bought]

Originally posted by baje55
Chill out and behave like the Captain and you will earn respect and others will learn from you.

BWAHAHAHA... so you would rather take advice from "nice" people who post misinformation and don't understand what the hell they're doing, than take advice from "mean" people who know the Tivo inside and out?

Go back to AVS and suck on Bott's <FLAME DELETED>. We don't need your kind here.

[baje55]

Quote "BWAHAHAHA... so you would rather take advice from "nice" people who post misinformation and don't understand what the hell they're doing, than take advice from "mean" people who know the Tivo inside and out?

Go back to AVS and suck on Bott's <FLAME DELETED>. We don't need your kind here."Unquote


You need help sir, the medical kind. Please have your head read. It'll do you a lot of good, and that's good advice.
:)

[mrblack51]

Originally posted by baje55
Mr. Black51, I do apologize. You do help and have helped me in the past. In my post I made a faux pax, you are not included in that bunch of "Googles"

For this I am deeply sorry sir.

thats understood and appreciated. however, in regard to the 'bunch of googles'...sometimes that is the right answer. in fact, thats probably the best advice experienced members can give to new guys - if you don't know what something means, try google. in general, even if you get way too many results or stuff thats not exactly what you wanted, you should still be able to get some useful information. google is ideal for general topics, such as linux, hardware information for usb adapters, driver information, etc.

[David Bought]

Originally posted by baje55
Quote "BWAHAHAHA... so you would rather take advice from "nice" people who post misinformation and don't understand what the hell they're doing, than take advice from "mean" people who know the Tivo inside and out?

Go back to AVS and suck on Bott's <FLAME DELETED>. We don't need your kind here."Unquote


You need help sir, the medical kind. Please have your head read. It'll do you a lot of good, and that's good advice.
:)

Thanks for the tip. Now it's my turn: find the "quote" button and use it when you reply.

[NutKase]

Originally posted by baje55
Hear, hear. Well stated and as a newbie, I couldn't agree with you more.

Please just quote the 'relevant' parts of a post when responding.

We can all read the 'entire' quoted post again if we don't understand.

Also, it makes printing threads a real hassle with posts quoting other posts in their entirety just to say 'I agee'.

NutKase