David Bought Banned [Archive] - DealDatabase Forum - Deals, Freebies, and TiVo & DirecTivo Hacking

captain_video

12-31-2003, 07:29 PM

Although I've had major issues with Bought, I have to agree with what JJ is saying. I've been there myself so I can tell you that getting banned, even for a short while, is an unpleasant feeling. DB is a bright guy that likes to devote himself to upholding the forum rules to the extreme. The sad thing is that he completely overlooked the other major forum requirement that is known as forum etiquette. He's an asset to the forum whenever he doesn't trip over his own ego. I can only hope that this will be a learning experience for him that will eventually benefit us all. Everyone here should realize that there is no one that is above the rules of the forum as well as those of common decency towards your fellow human being. If Bought returns with a renewed outlook and improved attitude then I, for one, would welcome him back. He's already seen what can happen if he doesn't check his attitude at the door, and that applies to everyone here, myself included.

BubbleLamp

12-31-2003, 08:06 PM

You should all take heed. Don't gloat. Many of you would have faced the same fate with some of YOUR own more colorful posts.

Let's be reserved here, and hope that DB sees the error of his ways when he returns.

I hope that the Administrators and Moderators of this forum do not have to take steps like this often. It is not fun, and we do NOT revel in it.

Just be aware that this may happen.

JJ

For far too long DB's off-color, vitriolic, and flame-bating posts have been "overlooked", while much tamer posts have been removed for "compliance". It shouldn't have taken an overtly biggoted post of his to get people's attention.

All I and a lot of others here want is for ALL posters to be treated the same. I hope we'll see that now.

Happy New Year all.

Vadim

12-31-2003, 08:40 PM

I guess this was new year's resolution, to fix this problem with David Bought.
Thank you so much for your support regarding this matter!!! Problems like this will no longer be overlooked!

Have a happy new years everyone!

tytyty

12-31-2003, 09:38 PM

Considering his last posts, nothing less than a full public apology should be accepted.

AlphaWolf

12-31-2003, 09:39 PM

I have never had anything against david bought honestly....I would call him a peer, but his skills are way beyond mine.

Weez

12-31-2003, 11:41 PM

I dont understand what all the fuss is about, i didnt see a single racist comment in that post, in fact id be willing to bet in any major city in the US if you did a census of taxi drivers the overwhelming majority would be named, habib and mohammad co-incidence? no way. Racist? Absolutely NOT, Politically Incorrect? Absolutely

Vadim

did it ever occur to you maybe the reason why he hasnt been banned in the past is because while not being very popular in public opinion the things he posts are normally right on the money but the vast majority of the people dont want to hear it? I bet if you go back and read all the posts sure you'll see tons of sarcasm and even some things that i consider over the top but you will always find one thing in every one of the the posts. Useful and helpful information even if you dont agree with the way it was presented. I would also be willing to bet the people that actually do understand what he is saying not only appreciate his posts but look forward to them

Weez

AlphaWolf

12-31-2003, 11:46 PM

IMO, to be politically correct is to be naive. Good has come from violence. Nothing good has come from being politically correct, other than maybe you didn't hurt some panzy asses' feelings.

tiguere

01-01-2004, 12:07 AM

I would also be willing to bet the people that actually do understand what he is saying not only appreciate his posts but look forward to them

That's certainly true.

captain_video

01-01-2004, 01:35 AM

I don't recall anyone ever accusing David Bought of being racist. In fact, he's an equal opportunity bigot at best. He'll flame anyone regardless of race, creed, or religion so please don't play the race card in this discussion. FWIW, he'd also provide help to the same degree if he thought the question was presented intelligently.

did it ever occur to you maybe the reason why he hasnt been banned in the past is because while not being very popular in public opinion the things he posts are normally right on the money but the vast majority of the people dont want to hear it?

This is true only up to a point. While many of his posts were "right on the money", many of them were downright inflammatory and accusatory and way beyond the norm when "correcting" someone for an incorrect post. When he was right, he was right, but too often he was just being rude and took things a bit too far. When confronted with his attitude he would basically respond "Would your rather have someone that's polite and incorrect or someone that's right." Sadly, he failed to see that someone could exhibit both attributes at the same time.

tytyty

01-01-2004, 01:47 AM

I don't recall anyone ever accusing David Bought of being racist. In fact, he's an equal opportunity bigot at best. He'll flame anyone regardless of race, creed, or religion so please don't play the race card in this discussion. FWIW, he'd also provide help to the same degree if he thought the question was presented intelligently.

This is true only up to a point. While many of his posts were "right on the money", many of them were downright inflammatory and accusatory and way beyond the norm when "correcting" someone for an incorrect post. When he was right, he was right, but too often he was just being rude and took things a bit too far. When confronted with his attitude he would basically respond "Would your rather have someone that's polite and incorrect or someone that's right." Sadly, he failed to see that someone could exhibit both attributes at the same time.

True no one has accused him publicy, but have you read the post (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30858) ?

I'm sure vadim has, end of discussion

Weez

01-01-2004, 01:52 AM

I don't recall anyone ever accusing David Bought of being racist.

WOW did you even bother to read the thread in which DB got banned? my guess is either no you didnt and you were just so elated you just jumped on the band wagon OR you really are clueless.............Im hoping its the former.

This is true only up to a point. While many of his posts were "right on the money", many of them were downright inflammatory and accusatory and way beyond the norm when "correcting" someone for an incorrect post. When he was right, he was right, but too often he was just being rude and took things a bit too far. When confronted with his attitude he would basically respond "Would your rather have someone that's polite and incorrect or someone that's right." Sadly, he failed to see that someone could exhibit both attributes at the same time.

Being your one of the people to bear the brunt of his sarcasm, your better qualified to comment on this so i'll pass but I will say.........If the shoe fits wear it. Whether this applies to you or not i can't say thats for you to judge.

tytyty

01-01-2004, 01:56 AM

Weez

01-01-2004, 02:11 AM

Ahh defend a racist comment with another, very clever.

Of course you know a charge of harboring a racist culture on a public forum opens vadim up to intense pressure ?

There is nothing racist about that statement, Zero, Its in no way racist, again it IS politically incorrect.

tytyty

01-01-2004, 02:14 AM

There is nothing racist about that statement, Zero, Its in no way racist, again it IS politically incorrect.

Notice you do not own or run the board its not YOUR opinion or mine that counts.

Weez

01-01-2004, 02:33 AM

Notice you do not own or run the board its not YOUR opinion or mine that counts.

True.........problem i have with it is the moderators of the tivo forums havent chosen to ban him and imo with good reason, sure he is brash even a prick sometimes but he helps every post albiet not the way most people want to be helped but fact of the matter is he is almost always dead on. I think thats why the moderators tolerate him, he says what most want to say and what most dont want to hear..................sorta like the Howard Stern of DDB.

imo and its only mine Vadim bowed to public pressure and didnt ban him on his merits he banned him on the pressure.

tytyty

01-01-2004, 02:37 AM

True.........problem i have with it is the moderators of the tivo forums havent chosen to ban him and imo with good reason, sure he is brash even a prick sometimes but he helps every post helps albiet not the way most people want to be helped but fact of the matter is he is almost always dead on. I think thats why the moderators tolerate him, he says what most want to say and what most dont want to hear..................sorta like the Howard Stern of DDB.

imo and its only mine Vadim bowed to public pressure and didnt ban him on his merits he banned him on the pressure.

Actually no one knows why Vadim banned him, except David perhaps, and no not EVERY post has a tidbit but most had a slap.......

btw Howard Stern was so 90's

AlphaWolf

01-01-2004, 03:08 AM

Ahh defend a racist comment with another, very clever.

Of course you know a charge of harboring a racist culture on a public forum opens vadim up to intense pressure ?

Hmmm...I wouldn't call that racist. Saying:

"Orange people are stupid" would probably be racy. Saying:

"Nigel is an orangeboy name" is more or less an observed (read, not necessarily negative) stereotype.

FredThompson

01-01-2004, 03:11 AM

Weez, I don't agree with your last statement. It's very obvious a number of people don't like DB's behavior and consider it harmful.

His attacks on people who are involved in or wanting service theft are certainly protective of the forum and helpful, if sometimes a little too heavy-handed.

His attacks on people who are looking for information on how to increase functionality of their TiVos are frequently unwarranted. Ever wonder why a number of S1 enhancements didn't make it to the S2? Was that only because of technical issues or could it also be because of the general tone in the S2 area when questions are asked. Do some cross-reference and see what happened to long-time S1 users when S2 units were available quite cheap and they went looking for help.

His basic premise that any modification should be done via the most rudimentary methods and only after sifting through the entire board is ludicrous. Because he wants a requirement for enhancement to be thorough knowledge of the internals by the end user doesn't mean it should be so. If someone wants to treat their TiVo like black box puzzle, so be it. If they want to quickly and easily get TiVoWeb, larger storage, no phone cord, etc., so be it.

I freely admit I've not read every post in these forums. However, interestingly enough, I've not seen a single major hack or instruction set from DB. I've seen him attack people who built a lot of the foundational knowledge of which he claims mastery.

Having said that, he is frequently correct that people should use the search function more. The assumption that because he knows where something is posted means it should have been found by anyone else is fallacious. Some very competant people haven't found what they were looking for because they weren't familiar enough with specific phrases we use or due to limitations of the search function. (must be 3 or more letters or the phrase is too common...)

A couple of years ago there was a LOT of bickering about people not using the search function and statements that the only "proper" way to do something was to learn all the low-level ins and outs. Very few things in life are really like that.

I understand the concept of a tune-up but haven't done it since my first car, about 20 years ago. My sister has never done it. Does that mean neither of us should be allowed to drive or current cars or have them modified? No. I don't understand the chemistry of the fuel additive I pour into the gas tank. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to use it? No.

We're talking about TiVos, here, PVRs, not surgery or classical ballet. For the vast majority of people, the TiVo device is not an end unto itself, it's a means to an end.

Whether it was one particular post or an accumulation of pressure matters not. DB's effect wasn't just one of stunning and (hopefully) reducing service theft discussion, his behavior has had a very real chilling and dampening effect. He was treating these forums like a giant game of mother may I. His first few posts weren't that bad. (The name David Bought is a shortened version of David Bought and Sold, IIRC, and goes back to being upset about some stuff at DirecTV.)

Personally, I hope things change when he comes back. If he's as knowledgable as some people say, I'd like to see it in his replies and, hopefully, some contributions. That's not a challenge. I've just never seen anything which he originated or helped develop. I'd like to be shown I'm incorrect.

Having said all of that, please understand I don't have any hatred for the guy at all. I really do hope things get better. And, to try to illustrate my focus is on the behavior, not the person, let me show an example where DB was a good steward: http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28018

Weez

01-01-2004, 03:25 AM

Fred,

about the only thing i agree with is we agree to disagree.........................

FredThompson

01-01-2004, 04:10 AM

You're certainly allowed to do that....and have a Happy New Year.

mrblack51

01-01-2004, 05:55 AM

His attacks on people who are looking for information on how to increase functionality of their TiVos are frequently unwarranted. Ever wonder why a number of S1 enhancements didn't make it to the S2? Was that only because of technical issues or could it also be because of the general tone in the S2 area when questions are asked. Do some cross-reference and see what happened to long-time S1 users when S2 units were available quite cheap and they went looking for help.

this statement is grossly inaccurate. the number of people getting into s2 stuff who were actually contributing developers had nothing to do with DB, and I should know since I have been one of the major contributors to the S2 area since it was started. the number one reason that people who were dev'ers didnt pick up the new units is that there was no compelling reason since their s1 units worked well and were easy to hack. I was one of the first to pick one up (yes, ingineer over at AVS and his associates had them before me), and did so largely for the challenge. In regards to the suggestion that DB's actions have prevented s1 hacks from being ported - that is laughable at best. I have never seen DB lash out at the seasoned developers who have contributed to this forum...to suggest otherwise should be backed up with proof.

I understand the concept of a tune-up but haven't done it since my first car, about 20 years ago. My sister has never done it. Does that mean neither of us should be allowed to drive or current cars or have them modified? No. I don't understand the chemistry of the fuel additive I pour into the gas tank. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to use it? No.

I have to disagree here. in the car example, if you have no idea whats going on, you pay someone to fix it for you. your lack of knowledge, time, and expertise comes at a price which you are willing to pay. However, in the case of these forums, those who come and don't contribute are getting somethign for nothing, so no, your analogy is inaccurate.

That isn't to say that I don't use tools like 25xtreme or sleeper's iso. however, i have enough of an understanding that i could do it myself that these are just that - tools - rather than being crutches or turning the tivo into a 'black box'. the whole point of hacking is to increase functionality, bringing light to the 'blackness' if you will. if all you want is a bigger hard drive, fine, same for tivoweb. however, if you are taking support for free, you should be happy with whatever help you get.

Having said all of that, please understand I don't have any hatred for the guy at all. I really do hope things get better. And, to try to illustrate my focus is on the behavior, not the person, let me show an example where DB was a good steward: http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28018
this post, and the statements by people like weez and alphawolf represent the exact reasoning why I have never elected to ban DB. 'troll' is a term that gets thrown around a lot, but it doesnt apply here because DB (as was stated earlier) actually contributes, whether people want to admit it or not. it is clear he has a pasion for hacking that few have, and he seems to want knowledge to be accurate and self-rewarding, with effort going toward new hacks rather than answering the same tired questions. right or wrong? thats for everyone to decide on their own. does he deserve a permanent ban? i dont think so. penalty box for the cab driver comment? i dont think so either, but it wasnt my call.

Hi8

01-01-2004, 10:00 AM

those who come and don't contribute are getting somethign for nothing....

not to take your statement out of context, but doesn't this assume that everyone have the same ability and skills? This is hardly the case... I'm sure there would be MANY more contributions by those that wish they had the skills. And it's not a matter of just wanting or trying.

It's kinda like me wishing/trying to play guitar like Eric Clapton, I could contribute and upload recordings, but believe me you wouldn't want to hear it!

I visit these forums because of my love of technology, and how it can help me simplfy and enhance my life and hobbies. I am a TiVo hacker by accomplishment only. I've never written a script, or program to do so, just followed the instructions of others who have. I have written a few programs in my varied career; but never got much pleasure from it, perhaps because I wasn't very good at it. This seems to be quite differnent from many of the developers here. They seem to get the kick from doing it , NOT from the result. I would bet a box of Krispy-Kreme donuts that they spend more time writting the software/programs than they do using them!

I suppose it's not unlike those that climb Mt Everest, it's not like they really do much once they get there.

Oh yeah back to my point... without the end user(or newbie) the software/hacks would NEVER get to the point they are at today. Just check in and see how far TyTool has come in such a short time. There's a guy that works endlessly on his programs and shares his efforts with all. And thanks to a few of his friendly developer conterparts almost threw in the towel; because of so much sh!t about not releasing his code, or GPL licensing issues.

I think EVERYONE has a place here including DB - I too have had my problems keeping my BIG mouth shut, after reading one of his childish replies. I suppose it's just human nature - kinda like that polictical or morale argument many find themselves getting into. Ya just get sucked in. DB went too far, and is now paying the price for it. Hopefully he will return either under a new alias and give and get the respect that everyone would like to treat him with.

captain_video

01-01-2004, 12:46 PM

True no one has accused him publicy, but have you read the post ?

This was in response to my earlier statement about DB not making any racist statements. I had not seen the referenced post but after reading it I'd have to say it's more politically incorrect than racist. It was, however, completely uncalled for and is a classic example of DB's behaviour. I have also looked at DB's previous posts and he has indeed provided a lot of help to the membership. Unfortunately, his good deeds have been overshadowed by his outrageous behaviour. As long as your question was not of the newbie variety (I really think he has a complex towards newbies that don't know Linux) then he'd answer it cordially and intelligently. If he thought your question was outside the boundaries ofthe forum rules he'd come after you with both barrels. If you then reprimanded him for his tone all Hell would break loose. I learned a while back not to fuel the fire. I believe if everyone here followed that policy there would be a lot fewer of DB's outbursts. You just have to consider the source when he replies and realize that he's just trying to goad you into a flame war.

The reason he got banned was due to the large number of complaints that Vadim received regarding DB's activities in the forum. It's ironic that his own threats of closing threads and banning others came back to bite him in the ass. I finally learned not to engage him in any sort of debate because it was like beating my head against a brick wall and ended up causing more harm than good. His personal attacks were generally unwarranted and many times he went too far in getting extremely personal. I took a lot of the heat from him when I openly challenged his accomplishments and contributions to the forum. While ridiculing others for shoddy work in developing software tools, he has done nothing in the way of developing and improving the very programs he criticizes. He's nothing more than an insecure bully looking for attention, mostly the negative kind. The best policy is to simply let sleeping trolls lie. The biggest challenge will be for the members not to rub it in his face when he returns. Let's see if we can all rise above any petty differences and move on. It's time for a New Year and a fresh outlook.

amgqmp1

01-01-2004, 12:52 PM

I haven't read all the posts in this thread...but I read the first page...

Well, I for one say...

...Amen...

(...and I'm agnostic!)

FredThompson

01-01-2004, 12:57 PM

this statement is grossly inaccurate. the number of people getting into s2 stuff who were actually contributing developers had nothing to do with DB, and I should know since I have been one of the major contributors to the S2 area since it was started.It's impossible for either of us to validate our statements. There's no way to truly measure why people do what they do without asking them and there's no proper polling or sample collection so both our statements are opinions. I retract my comment.the number one reason that people who were dev'ers didnt pick up the new units is that there was no compelling reason since their s1 units worked well and were easy to hack.That's your opinion and can't be verified. S1 developers wouldn't be interested in $50 S2 DTiVos after the S1 line was discontinued? That doesn't make a lot of sense. I bought 2; one for use, the other as a spare. I'd far prefer more S1s but the price to acquire and service them exceeded buying an S2.I was one of the first to pick one up (yes, ingineer over at AVS and his associates had them before me), and did so largely for the challenge. In regards to the suggestion that DB's actions have prevented s1 hacks from being ported - that is laughable at best.As mentioned earlier, it is my opinion that has behavior has chased people away. Empirically proving or disproving is all but impossible.I have never seen DB lash out at the seasoned developers who have contributed to this forum...to suggest otherwise should be backed up with proof.That's a different situation than what I was trying to communicate. There are many highly skilled and knowledgable people who have a lot to contribute.

Here's the example you asked for: http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29000&highlight=xbox
I have to disagree here. in the car example, if you have no idea whats going on, you pay someone to fix it for you. your lack of knowledge, time, and expertise comes at a price which you are willing to pay. However, in the case of these forums, those who come and don't contribute are getting somethign for nothing, so no, your analogy is inaccurate.

That isn't to say that I don't use tools like 25xtreme or sleeper's iso. however, i have enough of an understanding that i could do it myself that these are just that - tools - rather than being crutches or turning the tivo into a 'black box'. the whole point of hacking is to increase functionality, bringing light to the 'blackness' if you will. if all you want is a bigger hard drive, fine, same for tivoweb. however,imperfect, not inaccurate. I was trying to show the commonality of my paying for a tune-up and my sister doing so. Sorry, I should have worked on the idea a little more so the aspect I wanted to communicate was more obvious.

Your use of combo tools is what I tried to illustrate in the analogy. I've done S1 hacking manually and far prefer to use the combo stuff because it saves time. With my S2 units, one was combo from the beginning, the other I did manually.if you are taking support for free, you should be happy with whatever help you get.Oh, sure. I can imagine few things worse than "family" and "friends" who expect endless free personal computer tech support because they aren't willing to read the manuals. Even so, the first few times they ask/push/demand the "no" reply should be civil.this post, and the statements by people like weez and alphawolf represent the exact reasoning why I have never elected to ban DB. 'troll' is a term that gets thrown around a lot, but it doesnt apply here because DB (as was stated earlier) actually contributes, whether people want to admit it or not. it is clear he has a pasion for hacking that few have, and he seems to want knowledge to be accurate and self-rewarding, with effort going toward new hacks rather than answering the same tired questions. right or wrong? thats for everyone to decide on their own. does he deserve a permanent ban? i dont think so. penalty box for the cab driver comment? i dont think so either, but it wasnt my call.We are in complete agreement here. The friction doesn't seem to be the content as often as it is his choice of words. Threads turn into pissing matches when he blows up.

Although, I certainly agree with that type of response to people who want service theft or aren't willing to look around a little. There's a great example of that in a recent reply to a sticky in the extraction area. Guy complains a link doesn't work but didn't look at the other sticky titles.

bdonalds

01-01-2004, 02:02 PM

Well, as someone who participated in the thread that got him banned, I figured I'd throw in my unsolicited two cents.

First, I reported the "cab" post to the moderators. I am sure several other did as well. I might have been racist, definitely not PC, and certainly not helpful to this community. I am anti-PC, as I elaborated on in the infamous thread, the PC movement is doing more harm that good, but that's another discussion. Had someone other than David written that, I doubt I would have even given it a second thought, but his history and attitude tends to provoke the most extreme responses from many people, myself included.

From my point of view, the problem arises in what everyone's interpretation of the purpose of this forum is. Personally, I thought it was a place for people to share information, so I could learn everything I could about improving or modding my TiVo, outside of any sort of service theft. I used Sleeper as a starting point to learning the ins and outs of my TiVo. I have not contributed anything back. That makes me a leech according to David's posts. Well, maybe yeah, for now. I need to learn a hell of a lot more before I start giving back, and I couldn't do that without first "leeching" from the community.

David's view is that he wants to keep the community small, to keep this activity less visible, and protect this hobby from further crackdowns by TiVo, DirecTV, etc. He makes some very good arguments for his side, and I agree with a lot of them. But what are the opinions of the moderators?

Anyway, my goal was not to get David banned. I am certainly not gloating about it, or proud that I may have had something to do with it. Heck, the fact that we are discussing it, and there are threads devoted to him has almost martyred him anyway, and will probably just feed his god complex.

I think that he almost always has a very good reason for his remarks, he just doesn't convey his reasons, and just comes off as an elitist ****, especially to those unfamiliar with his agenda. Certainly he does not have an obligation to explain himself to anyone, that's his decision. But with so much to offer this community, I would only hope that he would want to. If he wants respect, he could have a ton of it if he would communicate a little differently. I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time on such a lengthy post if he was just some troll trying to start flame wars...

Geez...I'm think I am getting pretty sappy here....better cue the music:

"I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony..." :D

Happy New Year!

Bryan

mrblack51

01-01-2004, 02:36 PM

Here's the example you asked for: http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29000&highlight=xbox

now show me a thread where he thrashed an actual tivo dev person, not some newbie trying to cross over and acting like a typical newbie. yes, trios has done his homework in the xbox world and has produced some great stuff, but when it comes ot the tivo, he was simply another newbie with a little bit bigger ego due to his other work (no offense trios). if thats the only thread you can come up with, you are proving my point.

TxFrog1999

01-01-2004, 03:22 PM

MrBlack, if trios is an accomplished Xbox hacker wouldn't be better to welcome him to the TiVo world in the hope that he would use his skills to benefit the community instead of belittling him?

FredThompson

01-01-2004, 03:40 PM

now show me a thread where he thrashed an actual tivo dev person, not some newbie trying to cross over and acting like a typical newbie. yes, trios has done his homework in the xbox world and has produced some great stuff, but when it comes ot the tivo, he was simply another newbie with a little bit bigger ego due to his other work (no offense trios). if thats the only thread you can come up with, you are proving my point.AFAIK, you added the conditon of "an actual tivo dev person", whatever that is, to my comments.

As I'm not associated with any of the hardware or software concerns which built the TiVo systems or devices, I cannot document an attack by DB on any such person.

mrblack51

01-01-2004, 04:22 PM

MrBlack, if trios is an accomplished Xbox hacker wouldn't be better to welcome him to the TiVo world in the hope that he would use his skills to benefit the community instead of belittling him?

im not suggesting he shouldnt be welcomed. my point was simply to refute the statement that DB had made attacks against those who had developed stuff for the S1 and therefore prevented them from developing for the S2. regardless of whether you think his methods are good/bad or wrong/right, the fact remains that DB has shown appropriate respect for those who have developed stuff for the tivo and done their homework, and seems to have a distain for those who refuse to do their homework.

and in actuality, just because i have done tivo stuff, i dont expect to walk into an xbox dev room and ask stupid questions without receiving a tounge lashing. everyone, regardless of their background, should read read read to have an understanding of what is going on before posting.

FredThompson

01-01-2004, 04:44 PM

my point was simply to refute the statement that DB had made attacks against those who had developed stuff for the S1 and therefore prevented them from developing for the S2.Your argument is against something of your own creation.

This is what I typed:His attacks on people who are looking for information on how to increase functionality of their TiVos are frequently unwarranted. Ever wonder why a number of S1 enhancements didn't make it to the S2? Was that only because of technical issues or could it also be because of the general tone in the S2 area when questions are asked. Do some cross-reference and see what happened to long-time S1 users when S2 units were available quite cheap and they went looking for help.

mrblack51

01-01-2004, 04:54 PM

Your argument is against something of your own creation.

i knew what you typed. my statement was to serve as backup for my argument regarding what you typed, and to refute the suggestion that db's actions had ran dev'ers away from the s2.

SurfBoy

01-01-2004, 05:04 PM

FWIW, I think he is one of the reasons that I (TiVo newbie) have just been lurking, SEARCHING, and DOCUMENTING all that I can before I hack my 2 HDVR2's. I will search before posting so the Boogie Man won't come and get me. I do think his remarks are a bit harsh sometimes, but in my lurking I have seen people asking the same old questions over and over, and they do deserve correction. I agree with Sleeper that "I only hope that he reflects upon his banishment with a change of heart and not with anger and spite." because I do believe there is a place here for him.

Sleeper

01-01-2004, 05:05 PM

this post, and the statements by people like weez and alphawolf represent the exact reasoning why I have never elected to ban DB. 'troll' is a term that gets thrown around a lot, but it doesnt apply here because DB (as was stated earlier) actually contributes, whether people want to admit it or not. it is clear he has a pasion for hacking that few have, and he seems to want knowledge to be accurate and self-rewarding, with effort going toward new hacks rather than answering the same tired questions. right or wrong? thats for everyone to decide on their own. does he deserve a permanent ban? i dont think so. penalty box for the cab driver comment? i dont think so either, but it wasnt my call.

I agree that he contributes.

I find his cab driver remarks no more derogatory than many of his other remarks. The fact is that they are deragotoary none the less.

What he lacks is respect for those who violate his rules or that have not somehow earned his respect. And I think that this is what it boils down to. Everyone should be treated with respect regardless how stupid, lazy or moronic they act. Unfortunately, this is not always easy for everyone to follow especially when a person is light years beyond the moron - it gets quite frustratiing.

I don't know the details of his repremanding - and I don't care. The fact is that he was obviously banned for his behaviour, not his contributions. I give the admins credit for taking action in a difficult situation. I think the lesson learned here should be that no matter how much you know or how much you contribute, you are not above the rules. And by the rules I mean the ones that society has set for decency and respect.

FredThompson

01-01-2004, 05:10 PM

i knew what you typed. my statement was to serve as backup for my argument regarding what you typed, and to refute the suggestion that db's actions had ran dev'ers away from the s2.You used the word "statement", not "suggestion" and attributed to me something I didn't state more than once.

As it is, unless there's an empirical way to validate either view, it's all a matter of opinion in which case we should agree to disagree and stop bantering about it. OK?

Tiros

01-01-2004, 05:21 PM

First off let me say BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

If the poster had a user name that insinuated that he was black, and DB posted a message suggesting that he return to watermelon eating instead of Tivo hacking, would that be a racist comment? I dont really want to debate this point, but once you bring ethnicticity into it, that kinda defines racism. Calling people stupid is one thing....

now show me a thread where he thrashed an actual tivo dev person, not some newbie trying to cross over and acting like a typical newbie. yes, trios has done his homework in the xbox world and has produced some great stuff, but when it comes ot the tivo, he was simply another newbie with a little bit bigger ego due to his other work (no offense trios). if thats the only thread you can come up with, you are proving my point.

AND

and in actuality, just because i have done tivo stuff, i dont expect to walk into an xbox dev room and ask stupid questions without receiving a tounge lashing. everyone, regardless of their background, should read read read to have an understanding of what is going on before posting.

Black,
I am sorry that you do not think I qualify as an "actual tivo dev person" Maybe you can clarify exactly what that is. I also take issue with "typical newbie" as well. Please provide the link to my "stupid questions" that you feel justifies an attack on me by DB. You want to talk about my ego? Well sure I have one, everyone does. Have I ever posted here saying how great I am or how much I have contributed? Have you? Has DB? Did I ever mention xbox here? Why would you think I displayed egotistical attidue? You dont know anythng about me.

I am sick of some people who tool around this board thinking that because they know something about Linux they are some kind of god. Linux is just an operating system. There are LOTS of them. I'll bet I can program in assembler more kinds of processors than most of these "gods" even know about. If I focused my efforts strickly on Linux and Tivo Im sure I could contribute there as well. It is totally ridiculous to judge someones technical expertise based on how well they know one mere operating system.

To all those who defend the arrogance of DB due to his knowledge I ask what would be different in the Tivo community if he did not participate? Not much I think. I have yet to see a single hack that he can take credit for. He has been asked repeatedly about this. You don't need any technical expertise to flame noobs. I had my S1 hacked long before DB came to town.

Will

01-01-2004, 08:45 PM

You used the word "statement", not "suggestion" and attributed to me something I didn't state more than once.

Here's my feeling about responding:

Poster A says the sky is blue.
Poster B says you're wrong to say the sky is falling.
Poster A says Yo' Momma

and it never ends.

It is a long-honored web/usenet principle to mischaracterize previous posts to help make our own point. Readers are quite sophisticated about that stuff by now so no harm is done. Just trust the readers, and let it go.

I don't practice what I preach, but I try, and it cuts down on the noise.

The problem with David Bought is both that he could never let it go and that neither could his targets. So there were big messes. I hope he is allowed back soon; I just don't see the harm, and he occasionally adds value to the forum. You could tell within the first three words whether one of his posts was meaningful or just another big but soggy firecracker to be ignored.

AVD

01-01-2004, 09:39 PM

My opinion is that DB is a smart guy and knows his Linux.

But,

As time has been going on, his head has been getting bigger and bigger and he has become so full of himself.

If he had been repremanded sooner, it would have never come to this.

Now some very serious action has been taken, feelings have been hurt.

In the future, we as a community, should encourage participation that advanced TiVo development and enjoyment of the hobby, and not the useless bashing of each other.

newbie

01-04-2004, 10:21 AM

I have never seen DB lash out at the seasoned developers who have contributed to this forum...to suggest otherwise should be backed up with proof.

I recall him making comments about Tiger and Jdnier stealing code and taking credit for the works of others.

Juppers

01-04-2004, 12:18 PM

I'm by no means a seasoned developer, but I have released a few scripts here and there, contributed code to a few projects, bug tested some stuff, and helped other developers in other ways. At first, DB rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't like the guy. As I read more of his posts, I saw the guy has real knowledge and contributes in real ways when he answers legitimate questions. From quietly providing code snippets, to pointing people in the right direction and even posting some source code to help others. Ok, he has zero newbie tolerance, probably less than zero, and I see his point on that as well. Where he chooses to express his opinions on that issue, many others simply ignore the ever increasing 'newbie' type posts. I'm guilty of that. If I see a stupid title or post, I pass it by.
While his methods may be frowned upon, and sometimes downright wrong, his desire to raise the quality of postings is to be admired. For those asking for him to prove his knowledge and ask him what he has contributed, why? He has shown many times over that he posesses the skill level to back up his general arrogance. It is my opinion he has been around for a very long time, and is an old known contributer reincarnated. I really hope he returns after the ban period. It would be a loss to this board if he didn't.

mrblack51

01-04-2004, 12:58 PM

I recall him making comments about Tiger and Jdnier stealing code and taking credit for the works of others.

those are political statements, not personal attacks

BubbleLamp

01-04-2004, 01:07 PM

those are political statements, not personal attacks

Spoken like a true politician. :rolleyes:

captain_video

01-04-2004, 02:09 PM

For those asking for him to prove his knowledge and ask him what he has contributed, why?

His knowledge hs never been in question. He gets asked about his contributions because he continually criticizes those that have developed programs and hacks to the Tivo community whereas he has nothing to his credit but a lot of bad press. If the guy is as good as he claims then he should have no problem making improvements on the programs he openly criticizes. When confronted with this issue he generally replies with profanity. He's always touting that this is a development forum but he has never actually developed anything on his own, at least nothing that he has openly shared with the rank and file.

He'd rather focus his efforts on bashing newbies and past developers than putting his talents to good use. It's easy to hide behind a pseudonym and criticize others from an anonymous position. I wonder how he'd behave if he had to deal with anyone here face-to-face. It is true that he has helped many posters but sadly his good deeds have been greatly overshadowed by his rampant negativity and downright rude and slanderous behaviour. Just think of the good that he could do if he put his knowledge to work for the forces of good instead of evil. I think if he ever adhered to the philosophy of not saying anything at all if he couldn't say anything nice then we'd almost never hear from the guy.

AlphaWolf

01-04-2004, 03:31 PM

If the guy is as good as he claims then he should have no problem making improvements on the programs he openly criticizes.

Actually, in many cases it is impossible for anybody to make any imrpovements. In the case of the howtos...well, there isn't much point in correcting those as they are often aiming for a moving target.

he has never actually developed anything on his own, at least nothing that he has openly shared with the rank and file.

Actually, that isn't quite true...

mrblack51

01-04-2004, 03:56 PM

Spoken like a true politician. :rolleyes:

the only time i saw DB 'attack' either of those people was regarding legitimate GPL related grounds. not meant to be political spin, but to each their own

captain_video

01-04-2004, 06:15 PM

Actually, in many cases it is impossible for anybody to make any imrpovements.

If that's the case then DB should have nothing to gripe about but it never seems to stop him anyway. As for DB's contributions in the development area I have yet to see any hacks or programs posted to his credit. If I'm wrong about this I'd appreciate it if you can point to any posts or files listed here at DDB that can be accredited to Bought. I'm not talking about a random thread where he may have posted a command line in response to someone's question but something that would be of benefit to most Tivo owners.

Sleeper

01-04-2004, 06:52 PM

I'm not talking about a random thread where he may have posted a command line in response to someone's question but something that would be of benefit to most Tivo owners.

Captain, You don't understand him. DB probably has contributed. He would never release his works into the public. He believes that only other develpoers are worthy of another developer's work. He despises that ANY hacks have been publicly released.

The issue with DB is the manner in which he treats other people. Period. Regardless of his skills, contributions or principles.

I think of this board as someone else's house. As such, I am a guest and I conduct myself and treat the other guests here accordingly. Yeah, we all have short fuses from time to time. The banishment of DB just reminds me to watch my tounge more often.

captain_video

01-04-2004, 08:08 PM

As in "him" I assume you are referring to David Bought. If so, you're right, I don't understand him. I'd be inclined to agree with your assessment of his "contributions" as the rest of us are surely not worthy of sharing in them, at least in his eyes. My contention is that while he constantly criticizes the accomplishments of others he has nothing to show for himself. Based on the size of his ego I'd find it hard to believe that he wouldn't be tooting his own horn about any such accomplishments, hence my conclusion that he has not made any such contributions other than an occasional post of "good will". The issue is indeed with regard to his demeanor and nothing more. Had he actually made any public contributions (as in some sort of script development) his demeanor would more likely have been tolerated to a much greater degree. When push comes to shove he just comes off as a bully spouting more hot air than substance. Perhaps he acts the way he does out of frustration. He's got the knowledge but just doesn't know how to put it to good use.

AlphaWolf

01-04-2004, 08:28 PM

If that's the case then DB should have nothing to gripe about but it never seems to stop him anyway.

Well, the vast majority gripe about microsofts software, yet not even the DOJ can do anything to change it.

As for DB's contributions in the development area I have yet to see any hacks or programs posted to his credit.

Well, you just haven't seen any posted under the name "David Bought."

tytyty

01-04-2004, 08:44 PM

There is a rumor among the developers and moderators that DB uses several identities here on DD.
I have my own suspisions as to one who does contribute some amazing things.

Of course tha fact that he ocasionally may critize his alter identity is slightly schizophrenic.

Or perhaps brilliant, depends on his motives.

Meathead

01-04-2004, 08:51 PM

Whether DB is smart or not doesn't really matter. The fact that he is extremely rude and an a$$hole is the problem. This board did fine without him before and will do fine without him again. He acts like he is a Mod. In fact, I had to check to see if he was one. He is not. He has been here less than a year. And he comes in here telling people to get the Hell out of here? What gives him the right? I believe that only Vadim and the Mods should have that power. I personally don't care how smart anyone is. We all need to work, learn, and play together. I hope he is banned forever. If he is let back in, he really, really needs to have a completely changed attitude. Just my .02

Meat

AlphaWolf

01-04-2004, 09:04 PM

The fact that he is extremely rude and an a$$hole is the problem. This board did fine without him before and will do fine without him again. He acts like he is a Mod. In fact, I had to check to see if he was one. He is not.

It would be incorrect to say that the moderators don't like him.

He has been here less than a year.

He's been around longer than I have. Albeit not under the name "David Bought."

BubbleLamp

01-04-2004, 09:26 PM

He's been around longer than I have. Albeit not under the name "David Bought."

I had that suspicion for a while, but can't figure why the need to use an alias. Did he piss someone off under his old name too? Get too much heat for "illicit" activities? Regardless of the reasons, he should conduct himself in a professional and courteous manor, as most others try to do. His previous posts almost never manage to be either.

AlphaWolf

01-04-2004, 10:20 PM

I had that suspicion for a while, but can't figure why the need to use an alias. Did he piss someone off under his old name too? Get too much heat for "illicit" activities?

Nope, my guess is he just got really pissed off due to a recent turn of events.

FredThompson

01-04-2004, 11:34 PM

I had that suspicion for a while, but can't figure why the need to use an alias. Did he piss someone off under his old name too?If you dig through old messages you'll see that alias came about due to supposed anger with David Whatsisname at TCF. For a while, the alias and avatar were fluid. David Bought and Sold was one of them, IIRC. Those posts started showing up around the time DirecTV was absorbing the TiVo responsibilities and preparing for Murdock's ownership. Things started to tighten up wrt their IP around that time. One of the early avatars was a modified version of David Whosis from TCF then it changed to the janitor one.

AlphaWolf

01-05-2004, 02:57 AM

Those posts started showing up around the time DirecTV was absorbing the TiVo responsibilities and preparing for Murdock's ownership.

Hmm...these are two very separate time periods. What I am actually talking about is a different event.

FredThompson

01-05-2004, 03:44 AM

They've been prepping for the Murdock purchase for a long time so, to me, they overlap. That's not really important.

OK, I just poked around the user list at Tivo Community Forum. The first time I noticed posts by this personality they were in reference to David Bott who is listed as the admin over there. Searching for "David" and "Bott" here turned up a few recent hits but not the posts I remember. Maybe they've been removed. DB's icon is supposed to look like David Bott as a janitor.

AlphaWolf

01-05-2004, 04:48 AM

They've been prepping for the Murdock purchase for a long time so, to me, they overlap. That's not really important.

Nope, the dtv taking over tivo was decided and done with way back during the speculation of the dtv/echostar merger. Version 3.1 is what set this in stone, and that began beta somewhere around may 2002, where they had already decided exactly what they were going to do. Even in the beta version, they renamed it from the "tivo service" to the "directv dvr with tivo service," required the tier check, etc. The final 3.1 release was sometime around october 2002, the same month that the FCC slammed the echostar/dtv merger.

The Murdoch thing didn't come til nearly a year later (IIRC, sometime just before may 2003?)

But even so, that has nothing to do with David Boughts' appearance.

DB's icon is supposed to look like David Bott as a janitor.

That it is.

FredThompson

01-05-2004, 05:15 AM

Oh, yeah, you're right. Wasn't the Echostar time when there was a lot of press about how Murdock supposedly paid some Israelis to crack the cards and released that info to sink his competition? Something like that.

captain_video

01-05-2004, 10:00 AM

Well, the vast majority gripe about microsofts software, yet not even the DOJ can do anything to change it.

I'd hardly compare David Bought to Bill Gates. Besides, Gates doesn't make an ass of himself in public like DB does. I have no doubt that DB has had many aliases but I'm somewhat puzzled why he won't own up to anything he may have contributed under any of them. Perhaps he's in the witness protection program and doesn't want to blow his cover. He's probably the guy that blew the whistle on all of the DTV hacking sites a while back.

AlphaWolf

01-05-2004, 03:52 PM

Besides, Gates doesn't make an ass of himself in public like DB does.

He always comes to press conferences with bedhead.

Meathead

01-05-2004, 04:05 PM

It would be incorrect to say that the moderators don't like him.

I never said anything about the Mods not liking him. I said that he seemed to think he was one.

FredThompson

01-05-2004, 04:07 PM

I never said anything about the Mods not liking him. I said that he seemed to think he was one.There is at least one closed thread the ends with a DB proclamation of "thread closed" and a few DB posts claiming responsibility fo censoring posts.

AlphaWolf

01-05-2004, 04:10 PM

I never said anything about the Mods not liking him. I said that he seemed to think he was one.

Well, by that I imply that any moderative actions are often times in his favor (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30605).

mrblack51

01-05-2004, 05:05 PM

Well, by that I imply that any moderative actions are often times in his favor (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30605).

um, threads related to service theft will be locked, no question. DB often has stated the obvious that they will be locked (in a manner which some interpret as implying he is a mod). while this wasnt always the case, it has been for the past two months or so

quantum_3

01-05-2004, 05:31 PM

I am just a newbie that has been able to learn enough from you guys to play with the toys some of you have made and i am very grateful of all the time and effort that was put into all of the great scripts here and the patience with alot of my "newbie" questions these past few years.(yes, i know, MAJOR run-on sentence) Some of you have peaked my curiosity in saying that DB is the "alter ego" of someone else here. Even though it might be unfounded at this time I would like to know your opinions of who it might be please.

just nosey :D ,

Q_3

AVD

01-05-2004, 07:04 PM

I have 2 questions.

1) Were David Bought's other aliases banned also?

2) Why was the announcement stating that DB was banned placed in the TiVo extraction forum, where
DB hardly ever visited?

wkearney99

01-05-2004, 07:29 PM

However, I do feel sorry for the guy in a strange kind of way. It's sad that a guy with such intelligence cannot see his own faults.
I tried exchanging messages with him, even sent him a PM asking 'WTF?'. His abuse in PMs was just as bad, if not worse, than his public posts. While it's always sad to see someone tossed out of a forum, if they're going to be so utterly hostile to new users there's little or no hope for a decent dialog. Nobody new will post and the ones that know everything will just wander away.

I for one am delighted to see Bought getting shown the door.

captain_video

01-05-2004, 07:40 PM

He always comes to press conferences with bedhead.

LOL. At least we haven't thrown personal hygiene into the mix with DB (nor should we). Can you imagine what it would be like hanging out with a guy that cleans toilets all day? No wonder he's so pissed off all the time. All he ever deals with is s**t!

His abuse in PMs was just as bad, if not worse, than his public posts.

Ain't it the truth. That's the reason I had him on my ignore list for so long. When he first started his tirades I tried to point out the honey vs. vinegar analogy in his posts but it just seemed to set him off. The PMs started escalating when I tried to explain proper forum etiquette and he just couldn't handle the criticism, although it was sincerely meant in a positive tone, if that's at all possible. He just can't handle the fact that he could possibly be wrong about something. I've seen a steady decline in his behaviour ever since. He may have his bright moments but it could just be that he got back on his meds temporarily. It didn't take him long to pick up right where he left off.

TiVOBell

01-09-2004, 02:05 PM

I've been gone for a while, but I have to say that, contributor or not, I am glad to see DB get smacked upside the head for once. No disrespect to the Mods because I know it's a tough job, but I always felt the rules of etiquette were being ignored while other rules were being enforced to the extreme.

His core points were often correct, but being right shouldn't be open license to abuse well-intentioned board members. DB was a newbie once too, I'm sure. (in the womb, maybe? :) )

Imagine what he could have done if he directed all of his energy into helping people understand instead of demeaning them! Maybe when he comes back that will happen.

And maybe monkeys will fly out of my you-know-what too. We'll see. :rolleyes:

David Bought

01-09-2004, 02:49 PM

the rules of etiquette were being ignored while other rules were being enforced to the extreme.

Number of boards shut down for "bad etiquette" to clueless n00bs: 0
Number of boards shut down for promoting service theft: dozens or hundreds (http://www.hackhu.com)

Enforcing rules which keep the admins out of the slammer seems like it might be a wise idea, no?

His core points were often correct

No, they were always correct.

When I was a newbie I respected my elders and learned how to search and experiment to find answers to my newbie questions. That is the absolute least we can expect from new members here.

Welcome back to the forum.

TiVOBell

01-09-2004, 03:23 PM

No, they were always correct.

No monkeys. darn.

Welcome back to the forum.

Ditto.

captain_video

01-09-2004, 03:25 PM

Number of threads shut down due to Bought's obnoxious behaviour taking it off-topic and converting it to an all-out flame war: dozens

When I was a newbie I respected my elders and learned how to search and experiment to find answers to my newbie questions. That is the absolute least we can expect from new members here.

Now that he has passed beyond newbie status he has lost respect for almost everyone that he deems to be his subordinate. When I was a newbie, the elders were more tolerant of newbie questions. They tended to point them in the right direction so they could learn on their own. Calling someone stupid simply for the sake of being a newbie is totally unwarranted and downright arrogant. Forum etiquette is definitely not in his repertoire. He doesn't take into account that this forum was much smaller and far less confusing when it came to finding answers to questions than it is today. It's easy for a newbie to become hopelessly lost when coming here for the first time. The learning curve is much steeper than it was back in Bought's (and my) newbie days. All we had to deal with was a bash prompt and hard drive upgrades. Now there are at least a half-dozen different kinds of Tivos and OS versions to deal with and multiple versions of the various hacks to keep track of.

I've always been a proponent of lurking and reading before you post but these days many noobs simply don't have a clue where to even start doing that. If you come to a forum, any forum, for the very first time, anyboby would be clueless about what to do or where to begin. The most obvious question for any noob is "Where the heck do I start?" I remember the plethora of threads and posts I slogged through when I first started out before I discovered that I could refine my search to display posts instead of entire threads. This type of thing is not readily obvious to the uninitiated. It can be very frustrating if you don't know the basics, and many here simply do not.

DB, if you don't like dealing with newbie questions then why do you even bother responding to them? You obviously feel that these individuals are beneath you so why do you spend so much of your efforts belittling them instead of offering them some constructive help or at the very least a nudge in the right direction instead of a shove off of a cliff? Since you are supposedly among the "experts" here then perhaps that is where your talents should be directed. It's unlikely you'd go off on a tirade against any of the more senior developers if that's all you had to interact with, but that also remains to be seen.

TiVOBell

01-09-2004, 03:44 PM

Number of threads shut down due to Bought's obnoxious behaviour taking it off-topic and converting it to an all-out flame war: dozens

Now that he has passed beyond newbie status he has lost respect for almost everyone that he deems to be his subordinate. When I was a newbie, the elders were more tolerant of newbie questions. They tended to point them in the right direction so they could learn on their own.

Exactly. I am an Amateur Radio operator, and we have a concept of "elmering" - it is anlagous to mentoring. The 'Elmers' take the newbies under thier wings and guide them. When the newbies are ready, they do the same for another newbie. I dunno, it just seems a lot nicer. Call me old fashioned, but IMHO 'nice' counts for something.

DBought, I am all for enforcing the rules. Delete the post, ban the user, whatever it takes. But the extra step of calling him 'lazy' or an a-hole is doing nothing but polluting the forum and is wasted 'breath.'

I hold out Mr. Black's style of chastising newbies as an example for you. I was fine with this when he corrected me here. (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27446) With you on the other hand, your toxic responses get you relegated to people's killfiles. What good does that do the community?

The only reason I don't send your posts to the bit bucket is that they are like car wrecks - I have to look no matter how ugly they get.

FredThompson

01-09-2004, 03:45 PM

Number of threads shut down due to Bought's obnoxious behaviour taking it off-topic and converting it to an all-out flame war: dozens

...

DB, if you don't like dealing with newbie questions then why do you even bother responding to them? You obviously feel that these individuals are beneath you so why do you spend so much of your efforts belittling them instead of offering them some constructive help or at the very least a nudge in the right direction instead of a shove off of a cliff? Since you are supposedly among the "experts" here then perhaps that is where your talents should be directed. It's unlikely you'd go off on a tirade against any of the more senior developers if that's all you had to interact with, but that also remains to be seen.A: Because people keep responding to that alias.

It's impossible to rationalize with the intentionally irrational.

David Bought

01-09-2004, 04:22 PM

It's easy for a newbie to become hopelessly lost when coming here for the first time. The learning curve is much steeper than it was back in Bought's (and my) newbie days. All we had to deal with was a bash prompt and hard drive upgrades. Now there are at least a half-dozen different kinds of Tivos and OS versions to deal with and multiple versions of the various hacks to keep track of.

So obviously, the solution to this is adding even more shit to sort through, by tolerating stupid newbie questions in every forum they can find? Great idea, we'll get right on that. I'm sure that will work wonders in helping the new users.

I've always been a proponent of lurking and reading before you post but these days many noobs simply don't have a clue where to even start doing that.

Let me give you a hint: "NEWBIE Forum: If you don't know anything at all and don't know how to read and don't know how to use the search and just have to ask that stupid question, ask it here."

How much more obvious could it be? They know exactly where to start if they just opened their f***ing eyes.

It's unlikely you'd go off on a tirade against any of the more senior developers if that's all you had to interact with, but that also remains to be seen.

Unfortunately, you have proven time and again that your expertise is in blabbing and breaking the law, not Tivo hacking, so you will never be able to learn the answer to that firsthand. :D

AVD

01-10-2004, 12:49 AM

David B:

may I forward this post as an example of how to answer a noob question.

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/report.php?p=116470

Will

01-10-2004, 01:54 AM

you have proven time and again that your expertise is in blabbing and breaking the law

And your expertise, as you've again demonstrated, is ... well, you just called "captain_video" a criminal, within a few hours of your return from the principal's office. Welcome back.

Nice to see the time off gave you an opportunity to think about the appropriateness of your behavior.

Hi8

01-10-2004, 03:20 AM

And your expertise, as you've again demonstrated, is ... well, you just called "captain_video" a criminal, within a few hours of your return from the principal's office. Welcome back.

Nice to see the time off gave you an opportunity to think about the appropriateness of your behavior.

I thought there was a chance ... forget it.. peace in the middle-east , bought reform! hah!

I say pull his plug for good. Don't even start a poll - do-it. He's terminal, it would be different if he was comatos, but there is no hope for this guy. Now he's in his glory - the ban has bummped him up a notch, he's wearing as a badge. If you don't see that he's thumbing his nose at you now, or knowning him flipping his middle finger...

Moderator: Flatline him PLEASE!

edit;

I say to all those that want to reply to one of his posts... don't instead reply in the same thread - openly to the moderator to just have him removed. It's better to not let him get the better of you; he's NOT worth the time.

cast your vote directly to the moderator! IGNORE bought!

vu2vu

01-10-2004, 06:23 AM

Welcome back David Bought.

You used to really get on my nerves but I learned skip your post while reading.

Sure Davis Bought has gone over the line a few times. But he has been banned for a few days and now is back. If you think banning David Bought will fix the problem, think again. He can always get a new isp and new username. At least now you know what username to filter.

Just remember one thing, even with all his rambling on about being a god and his work as a janitor, he sometimes contributes to the Forurn.

We can't just flush all that talent down the toliet can we?

Just my 2 cents.

Hi8

01-10-2004, 08:57 AM

We can't just flush all that talent down the toliet can we?

YES, and it will be VERY easy to find him under any alias/rock.

captain_video

01-10-2004, 11:09 AM

We can't just flush all that talent down the toliet can we?

Wasted talent is like no talent at all.

David Bought

01-10-2004, 12:22 PM

And your expertise, as you've again demonstrated, is ... well, you just called "captain_video" a criminal, within a few hours of your return from the principal's office.

Captain_video is a confessed felon, who openly moderates a service theft site, dispenses service theft advice to other criminals there, openly sells Tivo units illegally modified for service theft on ebay, and has been temporarily banned from this site at least once for posting illicit materials.

You would be best advised to pick your battles. You may not agree with everything I say but if you would like to claim that captain_video is not a criminal, you've got a lot of explaining to do because the evidence is very much out of your favor.

I say pull his plug for good. Don't even start a poll - do-it.

Too bad this forum isn't a democracy. :D

Here at Dealdatabase, technical proficiency rules, and the whiners do not.

I don't care if you're mediocre, but as long as that is the case, it is you who will be taking orders from me. Get used to it.

captain_video

01-10-2004, 03:16 PM

Captain_video is a confessed felon, who openly moderates a service theft site, dispenses service theft advice to other criminals there, openly sells Tivo units illegally modified for service theft on ebay, and has been temporarily banned from this site at least once for posting illicit materials.

1. I have never confessed to any such thing. If you are implying that I commit service theft then you'd better have something to back that up with. Every DTV receiver in my household that is receiving a satellite signal is subscribed to legally with DTV and the DVR service. I signed up for DTV right about the same time they took the original F series access cards off-line and I've been a legitimate subscriber from that time to the present. I've got the bills and cancelled checks to prove it so keep your venomous accusations to yourself unless you know all the facts.

2. What I do elsewhere is nobody's business as long I don't bring it here. FWIW, I only moderate the Tivo stuff and have nothing to do with the DTV side. Any further mention of this will immediately be reported to the mods as a violation of forum rules since it implies discussion of DTV hacking. I don't intentionally talk about illegal DTV stuff here. I say intentionally because I inadvertently posted a link to the aforementioned site once which is tantamount to the same thing. I was admonished for my action and rightly so. The link was removed and the infraction never repeated. If I do decide to talk about it I take the discussion to it where it's permitted.

3. What I sell and who I sell it to outside of this forum has no business being mentioned here. Why do you contiunuyally insist on launching personal attacks based solely on personal opinion and not based on any facts? You interpreted what you wanted to about the item's description and automatically assumed I was selling something illegal.

4. The suspension was warranted due to an error in judgement and I admitted that I was wrong.

Accusations of service theft by any members are warranted only if it is mentioned within the boundaries of the DDB forums. I, and everyone else here, do not go outside of this forum to dig up dirt on you so what gives you the right to do it to anyone else here? Go elsewhere to do your mudslinging because there is no place for it here. You're just showing everyone here what depths you will plunge to in hopes of bringing someone down to your level.

How about you DB? What did you learn from your "vacation?" Apparently nothing at all. Stay on your current path and you'll have a longer, if not permanent, hiatus the next time around. We'll give you all the rope you need but you'll eventually be the one to tighten the noose all by yourself.

Too bad this forum isn't a democracy.

Sad, indeed. You would have undoubtedly been the first to be voted off the island.

vu2vu

01-10-2004, 04:07 PM

Wasted talent is like no talent at all.

Agreed. I don't care for David Bought either way, but he has toned down his talk recently.

David Bought, calling someone a crimminal is going a bit too far. Especially with recent lawsuits. We don't need to start seeing some of our memebers dissaperaring.

David Bought

01-10-2004, 04:11 PM

What I do elsewhere is nobody's business as long I don't bring it here.

Wrong. Federal laws apply to you regardless of whether or not you break them while you are on Dealdatabase.

I have never confessed to any such thing. If you are implying that I commit service theft then you'd better have something to back that up with.

Google keywords: "people in glass houses"

"Hi, I'm captain_video, and I've been experimenting with a service theft device" (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=60710#post60710)

"Hi, I'm captain_video, and I've been stealing DTV on my DSR6k for many months, but it's not illegal because I was a subscriber" (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=60792#post60792)

"Hi, I'm captain_video and I'm having trouble extracting the shows I've been stealing." (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=62375#post62375)

"Hi, I'm captain_video and I illegally cloned my card so I can order PPVs without paying for them." (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=63429#post63429)

To everybody else: if captain_video chooses to edit these posts, please contact me for a saved copy. You will see a "Last edited" tag with today's date if they have been tampered with.

Any further mention of this will immediately be reported to the mods as a violation of forum rules since it implies discussion of DTV hacking.

Pot, meet kettle.

You interpreted what you wanted to about the item's description and automatically assumed I was selling something illegal.

Wrong. Selling a Tivo with the illegal "HU hack" which you advertised in the auction is a clear violation of the DMCA.

I, and everyone else here, do not go outside of this forum to dig up dirt on you so what gives you the right to do it to anyone else here?

You posted links to HT and ebay which clearly advertised your illegal activities. You incriminated yourself. And then you lied about it. Just like you did in the deleted for-sale thread.

Now the truth is out: you are a liar and a thief. You have sacrificed whatever integrity you ever may have had in order to attack your critics. Now tell me this: was it worth it?

captain_video

01-10-2004, 04:35 PM

You have sacrificed whatever integrity you ever may have had in order to attack your critics.

Now that's really the pot calling the kettle black. At least I have integrity to sacrifice.

P.S. The posts are still there and have been since they were originally posted over a year ago. Just because I don't remember every thread I responded to over a year ago doesn't make me a liar, no matter what the topic. You can take them for whatever you want. Experimentation and stealing are two different things so get a life DB. Why do you waste your time dredging up dirt when you could be doing something constructive like sucking on a tailpipe. Now go back and read the title of this thread. Why do you think so many people took an interest in you being gone? It was the most pleasant three days in the history of this forum.

David Bought

01-10-2004, 04:49 PM

Now that's really the pot calling the kettle black. At least I have integrity to sacrifice.

You sacrificed your integrity to try to prove me wrong, and you failed in your attempt.

Why did you even bother?

captain_video

01-10-2004, 04:58 PM

You sacrificed your integrity to try to prove me wrong, and you failed in your attempt.

Why did you even bother?

You're absolutely right. You're not worth the time and effort. You don't need my help to self destruct.

Meathead

01-10-2004, 06:07 PM

I still, think DB should be banned for life. I am tired of him always putting people down. He needs to learn to be tactful. PLEASE BAN HIM!!!

David, you are NOT a Mod. Stop trying to be one!!!

wkearney99

01-10-2004, 08:02 PM

Now go back and read the title of this thread. Why do you think so many people took an interest in you being gone? It was the most pleasant three days in the history of this forum.
Amen to that. DB's arrogance is unacceptable. The bile he brings up completely destroys whatever value his editing might bring. Put it this way, get rid of DB and others will do pickup the slack without being insulting. Perhaps even newbies will toil in the trenches with this work as a way to build their confidence. As it stands now the insults DB heaps on them virtually guarantees the newbies won't learn and won't have the chance to participate.

Get rid of him. Whatever he's got to contribute is NOT WORTH IT.

David Bought

01-10-2004, 08:29 PM

Get rid of him. Whatever he's got to contribute is NOT WORTH IT.

Thanks for sharing. I'm sure with your 3 weeks of Tivo hacking experience you're poised to take up the slack after booting the seasoned expert, right? :D

ilkevinli

01-10-2004, 08:36 PM

I have to say I love reading his responses. They get better every time. I will never filter him. Its to entertainging. :D :D

Thanks for sharing. I'm sure with your 3 weeks of Tivo hacking experience you're poised to take up the slack after booting the seasoned expert, right? :D

Tux Man

01-10-2004, 10:54 PM

I have to say I love reading his responses. They get better every time. I will never filter him. Its to entertainging. :D :D

LOL yep funny stuff..

Tux Man

BubbleLamp

01-11-2004, 01:02 AM

Captain_video is a confessed felon, who openly moderates a service theft site, dispenses service theft advice to other criminals there,

Careful there Plunger Man. At least one of the mods on THIS board posts to the site you're referring to, under a section that clearly is discussing service theft. So unless you feel like dragging all your buddies down the crapper with you (and I doubt they'd like that very much), I suggest you shut your friggin' trap.

malfunct

01-11-2004, 01:38 AM

Listening to people bash on DB is worse than hearing DB responding to newbies. At least he is providing some information in with it all, however cryptic it may be.

DB has obviously learned his lesson by what I see in his recent posts (this thread excepted for obvious reasons) so give him some slack.

BubbleLamp

01-11-2004, 02:02 AM

tiivohoe

01-11-2004, 10:22 AM

captain_video

01-11-2004, 12:59 PM

I think this thread is great! It’s a good place for anyone that feels the need to vent and tell DB how they feel. It’s much better to do it here then to mess up every other thread he responds to. Lets do all our DB battling here and then just ignore him in any other thread that he responds to inappropriately.

You have to admit this is good entertainment after you have caught up on the other threads.

And good entertainment it is. He's the best stand-up comic we have here at DDB. Responding to DB's rantings in any other thread will eventually cause the mods to shut it down. He'll just run it into the ground by taking it way off topic with his infantile temper tantrums. I don't even care if he tries dredging up dirt on me. It just shows how low he'll slither to make a point.

Meathead

01-11-2004, 02:50 PM

Too bad this forum isn't a democracy. :D

Here at Dealdatabase, technical proficiency rules, and the whiners do not.

I don't care if you're mediocre, but as long as that is the case, it is you who will be taking orders from me. Get used to it.

No one will ever take orders from DB. He will be banned for life. Just wait and see! He obviously has problems with authority. Once again, David is not a Mod and NEVER will be one. Bye Bye David! :)

And as far as signal theft is concerned, how come David knows about "Changes in the stream"??? He mad a comment about P4 card working better than P3 because of changes in the stream. Makes you go Hmmm?

David Bought

01-11-2004, 03:27 PM

No one will ever take orders from DB. He will be banned for life. Just wait and see! He obviously has problems with authority.

BWAHAHAHA... as if you and your clueless n00b breathren are "authority"?

MoneyMark

01-11-2004, 03:40 PM

BWAHAHAHA... as if you and your clueless n00b breathren are "authority"?

Charles in Charge of our days and our nights,
Charles in Charge of our wrongs and our rights!
And I sing, I want, I want Charles in Charge of me.
Charles in Charge of our days and our nights,
Charles in Charge of our wrongs and our rights!
And I sing, I want, I want Charles in Charge of me.

AlphaWolf

01-11-2004, 06:08 PM

I think this thread is great! It’s a good place for anyone that feels the need to vent and tell DB how they feel.

Hmmm.....

David Bought: I feel fine.

cali

01-12-2004, 08:01 AM

Looks like Mr.Bought has quite a bit of threads stored.....can you say OWN3D capn'?

Either way, bought is harsh, but has the knowledge. :D

captain_video

01-12-2004, 09:32 AM

Looks like Mr.Bought has quite a bit of threads stored.....can you say OWN3D capn'?

I think more like stalked than owned. I went back and looked at the links he posted about me, which are all about 15 months old BTW. I had completely forgotten that I ever posted them which is why I denied ever having posted anything on these topics. My apologies to the membership for my bad memory as it was not intended to lie about anything as DB implied. The particular "testing" device that Bought referred to never worked out for me anyway so I stopped using it after only a few days. I quickly realized that it was far less trouble to be a legit subscriber and more cost effective in the long run. I may have been a bad boy back then but I'm much better now. :D

BWAHAHAHA...

How exactly do you pronounce that? I can't tell if DB is laughing or crying or just has gas.

David Bought

01-12-2004, 01:33 PM

I have never confessed to any such thing. If you are implying that I commit service theft then you'd better have something to back that up with.

I went back and looked at the links he posted about me, which are all about 15 months old

The particular "testing" device that Bought referred to never worked out for me anyway so I stopped using it after only a few days. I quickly realized that it was far less trouble to be a legit subscriber and more cost effective in the long run. I may have been a bad boy back then but I'm much better now.

Well, what can I say... it's amazing what a search will turn up if you take the time to do it. :D

As recently as two months ago, cap'n, you were still ripping off DTV. Why do you keep lying to us? Again, I have located and archived posts which expose your deception and your illegal conduct.

<REMOVED BY MODS: three posts from another board in which captain_video confesses to stealing DTV and to illegal Tivo service theft>

Not surprisingly, captain_video continues to encourage the use of legitimate Tivo hacking tools such as the sleeper iso to facilitate service theft modifications. This helps to explain why so many thieves come to DDB looking for advice on DTV service theft.

Captain_video's disgraceful behavior erodes the very foundation that we legitimate Tivo hackers stand on, and he should be permanently removed from this community, not as punishment but rather to protect the legitimate interests of the law-abiding citizens here.

MoneyMark

01-12-2004, 02:32 PM

I sometimes wonder if people are still capable of sitting back and analyzing their own actions. Your words are wrought with such venom and negativity one can only guess at how your life has turned out. I must say that I am sad that a person who obviously has a grasp on the subject at this forum would rather decide to expend all his energy towards tracking down other members of the site for the sole purpose of discrediting their actions and personal fortitude. I find it very hypocritical that you would spend apparently hours attacking the integrity of not only Captain Video but also numerous others that belong to this site.

The membership here consists of people with a vast array of interests and even cultural identities. I find it hard to believe that someone would have the audacity to be a self proclaimed "god" and attack the interests of others. Who are you to pass judegement. Am I the only one that is completely shocked by your actions?

You call yourself a developer. You mock those who have less knowledge of a subject which is nothing more than a hobby to many of the people who belong here. As a software engineer I have known many brilliant "developers" and not one of them have the mentality that you possess. There is no need for such hostility in this field for it generates nothing but negativity and hatred. What progress can be achieved through your actions? For once sit back and assess the path that you have chosen. Perhaps you can change it.

MoneyMark

Well, what can I say... it's amazing what a search will turn up if you take the time to do it. :D

As recently as two months ago, cap'n, you were still ripping off DTV. Why do you keep lying to us? Again, I have located and archived posts which expose your deception and your illegal conduct.

Not surprisingly, captain_video continues to encourage the use of legitimate Tivo hacking tools such as the sleeper iso to facilitate service theft modifications. This helps to explain why so many thieves come to DDB looking for advice on DTV service theft.

In addition, he is a spokesman for the "tier 2" (T-2) illegal circumvention device, which he and his fellow moderators offer for sale on a subscription basis. Sale, redistribution, and use of such devices is prohibited under 17 USC 1201(a)(2) and carries substantial civil and criminal penalties, even for first-time offenders. For instance, last year (http://www.cybercrime.gov/OPdecrypt.htm) a vendor not unlike captain_video was fined $50,000 and received federal prison time for similar activities.

Captain_video's disgraceful behavior erodes the very foundation that we legitimate Tivo hackers stand on, and he should be permanently removed from this community, not as punishment but rather to protect the legitimate interests of the law-abiding citizens here.

David Bought

01-12-2004, 02:54 PM

I must say that I am sad that a person who obviously has a grasp on the subject at this forum would rather decide to expend all his energy towards tracking down other members of the site for the sole purpose of discrediting their actions and personal fortitude.

You obviously have no idea how easy it is to catch captain_video in a lie. :D That post took no more than a few minutes to put together.

I find it very hypocritical that you would spend apparently hours attacking the integrity of not only Captain Video but also numerous others that belong to this site.

The membership here consists of people with a vast array of interests and even cultural identities.

I will concede the point if you name just one legitimate cultural identity which encourages lying and stealing. FYI, America is a Christian nation, and that means we believe that people who lie and steal will go to Hell when they die.

I stand up for what is right, period. That means that I speak the truth and press others to do so, and I stand up for positive values regardless of how unpopular they are. And that is why I am a man of integrity, and captain_video is not.

For once sit back and assess the path that you have chosen. Perhaps you can change it.

Never in a million years. The only people who feel my wrath are doing something wrong in the first place.

TiVOBell

01-12-2004, 03:41 PM

FYI, America is a Christian nation, and that means we believe that people who lie and steal will go to Hell when they die.

Darn, I really wanted to stay out of this trainwreck of a thread from now on, but I have to say this.

Bought, Christians also believe in forgiveness and loving thy neighbor. Apparently you're on the express train to hell.

:D

Sleeper

01-12-2004, 04:13 PM

Ok, we have brought religion into it. I'm just waiting for the politics.

CableNOT

01-12-2004, 04:13 PM

I've been gone for a while, but I have to say that, contributor or not, I am glad to see DB get smacked upside the head for once.

Darn, I really wanted to stay out of this trainwreck of a thread from now on, but I have to say this.

If you wanted to stay out of this thread, why did you post the comment about being glad to see DB "smacked upside the head". Where is YOUR forgiveness? Can't have it both ways.

TiVOBell

01-12-2004, 04:19 PM

If you wanted to stay out of this thread, why did you post the comment about being glad to see DB "smacked upside the head". Where is YOUR forgiveness? Can't have it both ways.

I am not the religious type myself. I was following Bought's statement through to it's logical conclusion. Plus, did you notice the big grin? It was there to signify a joke.

So, who wants to move on to discussing abortion? :D

(Note the grin. This is a joke, I do not really want to talk about abortion. :rolleyes: )

rc3105

01-12-2004, 04:58 PM

Ok, we have brought religion into it. I'm just waiting for the politics.

pol·i·tics ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pl-tks)
n.
(used with a sing. verb)
The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.
Political science.
(used with a sing. or pl. verb)
The activities or affairs engaged in by a government, politician, or political party: “All politics is local” (Thomas P. O'Neill, Jr.). “Politics have appealed to me since I was at Oxford because they are exciting morning, noon, and night” (Jeffrey Archer).
The methods or tactics involved in managing a state or government: The politics of the former regime were rejected by the new government leadership. If the politics of the conservative government now borders on the repressive, what can be expected when the economy falters?
(used with a sing. or pl. verb) Political life: studied law with a view to going into politics; felt that politics was a worthwhile career.
(used with a sing. or pl. verb) Intrigue or maneuvering within a political unit or group in order to gain control or power: Partisan politics is often an obstruction to good government. Office politics are often debilitating and counterproductive.
(used with a sing. or pl. verb) Political attitudes and positions: His politics on that issue is his own business. Your politics are clearly more liberal than mine.
(used with a sing. or pl. verb) The often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a society.

this discussion is by definition (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=politics) politics :p

Sleeper

01-12-2004, 05:15 PM

this discussion is by definition (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=politics) politics :p

(used with a sing. or pl. verb) The often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a society

Can't argue with that!

Sleeper

01-12-2004, 05:22 PM

FWIW, take a look at the status under the user names for both David Bought and captain_video. They both just got the axe from the powers that be.

And I'm guessing that they BOTH have been warned and continued anyway. There is a limit on how far it should go and the limit (in my mind) has been exceeded by BOTH in this very thread. I'm glad to see that some discipline is being enforced. There is a big difference between constructive criticism and personal attacks, and they are BOTH guilty of the later, regardless of who instigated it (just like children).

Again, this should be a lesson to all of us.

Sleeper

01-12-2004, 05:26 PM

mrblack51

01-12-2004, 07:16 PM

A man of his word! Not an easy job being the disciplinarian!

for the record, it was I who smote both DB and CV for their antics. They will be back tomorrow, but they can chill in the penalty box for today

Meathead

01-12-2004, 07:20 PM

All I can say, is AMEN!

JJBliss

01-12-2004, 07:21 PM

However, it was I who put Bubblelamp on a temporary hiatus as well. There will be civil discussion from all parties, or there will be no discussion at all.

Posting personal information is unnacceptable as well as threatening to post private information.

You should all think about the things you do, and make sure that you only affect those involved in your little disputes.

tytyty

01-12-2004, 09:09 PM

for the record, it was I who smote both DB and CV for their antics. They will be back tomorrow, but they can chill in the penalty box for today

Todays events warrant more than a slap on the wrist.

David was banned for 3 days by the Board Owner and less than 2 weeks later gets a single day ?

The information posted by David was in NO way apropriate or justifiable.

Captain_Video needs to chill out.

My 2 cents worth

mrblack51

01-12-2004, 09:46 PM

Todays events warrant more than a slap on the wrist.

David was banned for 3 days by the Board Owner and less than 2 weeks later gets a single day ?

The information posted by David was in NO way apropriate or justifiable.

Captain_Video needs to chill out.

My 2 cents worth

when you are a mod, you can make those decisions...until then, tough luck. your two cents and anothe $5.73 will get you a cup of coffee.

Vadim

01-12-2004, 09:54 PM

This is rediclious! A thread with 131 replies just to discuss this banning issue. I'm frankly annoyed by this problem and I think I have a solution in mind. I'm frankly just too tired playing a teacher in a kindergarden. If this doesn't stop soon I will find a permanent solution once and for all to these childish acts. Thanks
- Vadim

newbie

01-13-2004, 10:12 AM

AlphaWolf

01-13-2004, 01:37 PM

your two cents and anothe $5.73 will get you a cup of coffee.

Hey, get me some too while your out.

David Bought

01-13-2004, 04:50 PM

I'm frankly just too tired playing a teacher in a kindergarden. If this doesn't stop soon I will find a permanent solution once and for all to these childish acts.

I agree 100% Vadim. How about this: starting today, anybody who PMs or emails you regarding a problem they have with another user should get banned ON THE SPOT. The section mods do a good job at taking care of problems, so anybody who drags you into the fray needs to be removed.

This board is growing at a rapid pace and we definitely need to set some rules and boundaries for the biggest troublemakers: the new users and the service thieves, before things get out of control.

Sleeper

01-13-2004, 05:46 PM

This board is growing at a rapid pace and we definitely need to set some rules and boundaries for the biggest troublemakers: the new users and the service thieves, before things get out of control.

I agree with that, but just because they are new or appear to be thieves, does not give anyone the right to treat them like dirt - you and I included.

David Bought

01-13-2004, 06:09 PM

I agree with that, but just because they are new or appear to be thieves, does not give anyone the right to treat them like dirt - you and I included.

Setting rules and boundaries does not equate to treating them like dirt.

Four simple rules will do it, if we plaster the rules right in front of their face and ban them on sight for breaking them:

1) No service theft talk, no full guide data hacks for SA Tivos, no discussion of DTV circumvention measures, period. Discussion of fixsub, PPV guide data insertion, APG object structure, etc. is acceptable. If you came here to rip off Tivo or DTV, you will be banned, because that is not what this board is for.

2) The moderators police the board, not the owner. If you contact, threaten, or blackmail the owner about a problem you have with another user, you will be banned on the spot.

3) Do a search and lurk for several weeks before you post. We are not here to fix your problems or support your hobby, this is a development board. We will help you if we feel like it but we are under no obligation. If you are asked to do your own work and stop begging, take the advice and don't whine about it.

4) If you are new, post in the NEWBIE forum. If you are unsure of what you are doing, post in the NEWBIE forum. If you have not done a search, post in the NEWBIE forum. NEWBIE questions that are posted to other forums will result in a ban. Hacking forums are for technical discussions, not redundant Q&A garbage. This is not AVS.

Fair enough?

MoneyMark

01-13-2004, 06:27 PM

How about leaving the replies up to those who wish to reply. If you do not enjoy the topic which is posted simply ignore it and stop wasting your time. If you do not wish to deal with "n00bies" or rather those who are new to this hobby then do so and leave them alone.

I think it comes down to two simply ideas. First of all, if you simply did not treat people in a threatening, immature, and offensive manner this discussion would not be taking place. When it was stated that there were 131 posts just on this subject alone I believe it should be a red flag to the moderators of this forum. There is a reason that there are that many posts on the subject and that is because this man has irritated that many people.

I recently joined this site and started reading post on my own. I found that I kept coming across post after post of David attacking members. Yes people do need to use the search button, yes service theft may not be allowed on this forum, but no one should react or be allowed to react in this manner towards the members. There is no need for it since it solves absolutely nothing. Just think 131 posts could have been spent on helping people, instead the focus of attention has been on this thread and the ambiance which DB has created.

I see no reason why a member should be banned on the spot when the obviously are new to the site. Warn them first and if there are repeated violations then ban them. David Bought is obviously disruptive to this site and should change his mentality to better of the forum. Once again I say how dare you judge others, how dare you have the audacity to call yourself a god when this is how you act.

The forum moderators obviously have the right to do what the wish but I urge them to require Mr. Bought to leave the moderation to the moderators and for them to demand his posts to be informative and/or civil.

MoneyMark

Setting rules and boundaries does not equate to treating them like dirt.

Four simple rules will do it, if we plaster the rules right in front of their face and ban them on sight for breaking them:

1) No service theft talk, no full guide data hacks for SA Tivos, no discussion of DTV circumvention measures, period. Discussion of fixsub, PPV guide data insertion, APG object structure, etc. is acceptable. If you came here to rip off Tivo or DTV, you will be banned, because that is not what this board is for.

2) The moderators police the board, not the owner. If you contact, threaten, or blackmail the owner about a problem you have with another user, you will be banned on the spot.

3) Do a search and lurk for several weeks before you post. We are not here to fix your problems or support your hobby, this is a development board. We will help you if we feel lik