TiVo series2 HMO extraction

[AVD]

http://new.stockwatch.com/newsit/newsit_newsit.pasp?bid=U-b005299-U:SNIC-20040108&symbol=SNIC&news_region=U&name=SONIC+SOLUTIONS&

[KittyLitter]

http://new.stockwatch.com/newsit/newsit_newsit.pasp?bid=U-b005299-U:SNIC-20040108&symbol=SNIC&news_region=U&name=SONIC+SOLUTIONS&

Well...

Shit.

[Generiq]

I wonder where they got that idea?

:p

[malfunct]

I wonder where they got that idea?

:p

I wonder if its going to be an additional charge on top of the normal HMO pricing. If it is then I could see them being WAY less accomodating of video extractors because we would be cutting into an income stream of thiers.

[Fugg]

They've based their security on a "usb dongle" key system that must be on the connecting pc, as well as looking like the sonic package will be the only app allowed to import the mpegs. They're gonna package the dongle with the sonic app. Price? Will you need another hmo fee for your computer? Still waiting on word for that.

With the statement from Mike Ramsay at ces yesterday saying that the dvd's created with the sonic package will be playable on any dvd player, I'm thinking that it will re-encode the tivo mpeg during authoring and therefore reduce the quality of the vid.

You've still got to hack a tivo to do what we do, so I don't think we'll be a very big blip on their radar.

[malfunct]

They've based their security on a "usb dongle" key system that must be on the connecting pc, as well as looking like the sonic package will be the only app allowed to import the mpegs. They're gonna package the dongle with the sonic app. Price? Will you need another hmo fee for your computer? Still waiting on word for that.

With the statement from Mike Ramsay at ces yesterday saying that the dvd's created with the sonic package will be playable on any dvd player, I'm thinking that it will re-encode the tivo mpeg during authoring and therefore reduce the quality of the vid.

You've still got to hack a tivo to do what we do, so I don't think we'll be a very big blip on their radar.

If they are selling extraction (regardless of whether its lower or higher quality or ease or time) they will be upset that the same can be achieved for free. We would be a huge blip on thier radar.

As far as playing on any dvd player, I think that one of the standard recording options for the SA tivo is the same resolution as half D1 which is a standard DVD format, all they would need to is re-encode the audio to 48khz LPCM or AC3 and they have a completely valid DVD stream at no major re-encoding cost and no loss of video quality. I think sonic is one of the dvd authoring tools that likes to re-encode everything anyways so that part rather sucks.

I think the one thing that may keep hacking for extraction off thier radar is the fact that its not really user friendly and they can market the message that it is dangerous to the hardware and so a majority of people will just pay for the Tivo Kool-Aid and buy the HMO extraction stuff.

[mrblack51]

im not at all surprised by this announcement. you will notice that ptvupgrade got the greenlight from tivo to start selling extraction and burning products based on the extraction stuff thats on ddb. it makes perfect sense that they will relax their stance on the s1 stuff since the s2 will have this capability, but only with hmo - something not available on the s1.

[Tiros]

The way I read it you can only play back on a PC that has the security dongle and the Cineplayer. WTF? Is that usefull?

[malfunct]

The way I read it you can only play back on a PC that has the security dongle and the Cineplayer. WTF? Is that usefull?

It seemed pretty clear that once the content was on DVD it could be played back on any player. I would expect normal DVD encryption on them like commercial dvd's however so copying may be (very slightly) tricky.

[mrblack51]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1571987&highlight=extraction#post1571987

thats the post where ptvupgrade admits that tivo allowed them to sell open source stuff as an extraction pack and whatnot, for those who are interested

[David Bought]

It seemed pretty clear that once the content was on DVD it could be played back on any player. I would expect normal DVD encryption on them like commercial dvd's however so copying may be (very slightly) tricky.

Consumer DVD recorders and media do not support burning with CSS.

[Fugg]

malfunct said:
"I think sonic is one of the dvd authoring tools that likes to re-encode everything anyways so that part rather sucks."

...which is where I got my statement "I'm thinking that it will re-encode the tivo mpeg during authoring and therefore reduce the quality of the vid."

malfunct said:
"I think that one of the standard recording options for the SA tivo is the same resolution as half D1 which is a standard DVD format, all they would need to is re-encode the audio to 48khz LPCM or AC3 and they have a completely valid DVD stream at no major re-encoding cost and no loss of video quality."

Basic and medium are 352x480(1/2d1), but the others are not dvd standard. Have you heard that the dvd burning trick will only work with certian quality settings? Ramsey was eluding to being able to do it with any, again supporting the re-encoding thought for compliance for "any player".

malfunct said:
"I think the one thing that may keep hacking for extraction off thier radar is the fact that its not really user friendly and they can market the message that it is dangerous to the hardware and so a majority of people will just pay for the Tivo Kool-Aid and buy the HMO extraction stuff."

That's how I came up with "You've still got to hack a tivo to do what we do, so I don't think we'll be a very big blip on their radar." ...not to mention "You'll void you warranty!!!"

David Bought said:
"Consumer DVD recorders and media do not support burning with CSS."

....which would make me think the created dvd's would be open, and not encrypted.
okok,.... i stated the obvious....
;)

[MoneyMark]

I think it should be fairly obvious that the created dvds will only play on a computer that can verfify the owner of the dvd. A stand alone dvd player can not do this. There would be no way for them to avoid extracted video from being shared if it was not encrypted and ass DB has stated home dvd burners can not do this.

MoneyMark

[CableNOT]

As far as playing on any dvd player, I think that one of the standard recording options for the SA tivo is the same resolution as half D1 which is a standard DVD format, all they would need to is re-encode the audio to 48khz LPCM or AC3 and they have a completely valid DVD stream at no major re-encoding cost and no loss of video quality.

Ah! But since the DirecTV stream is already 480x480 with 48KHz audio, anything you do to the stream (re-encode) will degrade video and audio quality. Besides the fact that SA Tivos must perform a digital-analog conversion before the stream is re-encoded to whatever quality level you choose. Any re-encoding or image resizing will effect quality.

[mrblack51]

I think it should be fairly obvious that the created dvds will only play on a computer that can verfify the owner of the dvd. A stand alone dvd player can not do this. There would be no way for them to avoid extracted video from being shared if it was not encrypted and ass DB has stated home dvd burners can not do this.

MoneyMark

tivo stated that these dvds would be playable on standard dvd players. also, remember that HMO is currently for SA units only. as such, the recordings are re-encoded, rather than the straight digital from the satellite. this is simply turning SA S2 units into the DVD/tivo s2 units, with a little legwork and presumably a lot less cost.