PDA

View Full Version : If I treated people as badly as DB...



Meklos
02-12-2004, 03:01 AM
I would be banned within 10 posts. Why is he allowed to continue treating people like *****s?

The more posts I see from him, the more I see him absolutely thrash people who ask questions he thinks are stupid, the less I want to visit this forum.

I'm sure there are people who gave up on hacking their Tivo through this forum just because of his attitude. Not to mention trying to make other people think he's a moderator by putting crap like Thead Closed on certain posts.

If I were the owner or moderator of this board, his antics would have been tolerated about... once.

Hi8
02-12-2004, 06:01 AM
I would be banned within 10 posts. Why is he allowed to continue treating people like *****s?

The more posts I see from him, the more I see him absolutely thrash people who ask questions he thinks are stupid, the less I want to visit this forum.

I'm sure there are people who gave up on hacking their Tivo through this forum just because of his attitude. Not to mention trying to make other people think he's a moderator by putting crap like Thead Closed on certain posts.

If I were the owner or moderator of this board, his antics would have been tolerated about... once.


I couldn't agree more. It's obvious that there is something "There There" --

Nepatism, maybe... someone's BAD-BOY brother? , who knows. But you are right, if it were joe "Newbie" - he would have been long gone. I think this will come back to haunt the moderators here as his conduct up until now has been "blessed" as acceptable.

<edit>

meaning that well all can reply and act like children - insult, bash, and flame - and cloak it within a attempted helpful weak post

</edit>

fixn278
02-12-2004, 09:30 AM
Nepatism, maybe... someone's BAD-BOY brother? , who knows.

Excellent approach....

If you want to get your point across and convince a mod or board owner to take action, by all means, accuse them of favoritism or nepotism. People always react well to being accused of wrongdoing.

Sleeper
02-12-2004, 10:17 AM
This problem needs to be addressed. This is not the first thread about this. Many others have been closed.

The problem is that DDB does not have any rules of conduct. For the most part DDB has taken a free speach posture unless the subject matter jepordizes the board.

I don't agree with the current policy. I believe that setting just one rule and enforcing it would cure the problem. That rule would be:

Treat everyone with courtesy and respect, PERIOD!

No exceptions should be made regardless of a member's prior contributions, knowledge or political ties to others on this board.

This suggestion does not restrict the ability to have "free speach". It just restricts the manner in which you can present your thoughts.

splitsec
02-12-2004, 10:30 AM
This problem needs to be addressed. This is not the first thread about this. Many others have been closed.

The problem is that DDB does not have any rules of conduct. For the most part DDB has taken a free speach posture unless the subject matter jepordizes the board.

I don't agree with the current policy. I believe that setting just one rule and enforcing it would cure the problem. That rule would be:

Treat everyone with courtesy and respect, PERIOD!

No exceptions should be made regardless of a member's prior contributions, knowledge or political ties to others on this board.

This suggestion does not restrict the ability to have "free speach". It just restricts the manner in which you can present your thoughts.

I concur, there is no reason that people can't be treated with respect. That goes for both DB and his rants against questions he thinks have been posted in the wrong section, and for the newbies who attack the people who are providing free support for the free hacks they have created ("sleeper's revenge" thread comes to mind). And it also includes posts like the one by Hi8 in this very thread attacking the moderators.

When the new rules come out (which I hear rumors that this is suppose to occur soon) I hope that they include the rule Sleeper has suggested. And that the rules are applied fairly and equally to all members regardless of their current status.

Split

Hi8
02-12-2004, 03:35 PM
I concur, there is no reason that people can't be treated with respect. That goes for both DB and his rants against questions he thinks have been posted in the wrong section, and for the newbies who attack the people who are providing free support for the free hacks they have created ("sleeper's revenge" thread comes to mind). And it also includes posts like the one by Hi8 in this very thread attacking the moderators.

When the new rules come out (which I hear rumors that this is suppose to occur soon) I hope that they include the rule Sleeper has suggested. And that the rules are applied fairly and equally to all members regardless of their current status.

Split


wow, making a guess out loud, by saying maybe? is an ATTACK! -

what would your guess be? That someone that already has been banned, and just reciently told one more post like the last and your gone... But he's still here - like nothing ever happened. Same ole' same ole'.

And he continues with insults flying in every post!

I'm not insulting anyone personally, I'm just questioning their judgement, and possible motivation behind the lack of action. If you make a rule, someone breaks it, they are warned, and they continue to break it.... There must be a reason that nothing is done? That 's all I was trying to imply -

JJBliss
02-12-2004, 05:57 PM
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146376&postcount=31

Meklos
02-12-2004, 07:39 PM
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=146376&postcount=31

Just start calling me DB2 then...

Sleeper
02-13-2004, 12:30 AM
Well the new rules are out.

They look good!

Meklos
02-13-2004, 05:35 AM
Well the new rules are out.

They look good!

Yep, sure do. Seems to be a significant shift from the previous ruleset. I wonder what the fallout will be. I see Hi8's already banned, but the rules state the mods can only do temp bans... the board owner is the only one who can permaban.

Hmmm... this is getting interesting.

Vadim
02-13-2004, 10:02 AM
Well I hope with the new rules we'll be able to fix some issues.
Hi8 was not permnently banned, he was temp banned by a moderator.
We'll see how these new rules effect DB if he will not understand, he will be "processed" by the rules.
Those that are saying he might be someones brother, maybe, but not mine :)

Thank you guys for your continuing support.

- Vadim


Yep, sure do. Seems to be a significant shift from the previous ruleset. I wonder what the fallout will be. I see Hi8's already banned, but the rules state the mods can only do temp bans... the board owner is the only one who can permaban.

Hmmm... this is getting interesting.

Meklos
02-20-2004, 09:09 AM
Well I hope with the new rules we'll be able to fix some issues.
Hi8 was not permnently banned, he was temp banned by a moderator.
We'll see how these new rules effect DB if he will not understand, he will be "processed" by the rules.
Those that are saying he might be someones brother, maybe, but not mine :)

Thank you guys for your continuing support.

- Vadim


Just an observation, Vadim. It seems DB's latest string of posts is just as abusive and vile as his previous spew of crap. I'm venturing a guess that the rules aren't going to influence him...


[edit] Here's a good reason (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=148065&postcount=11) why DB should be muzzled. The poster has considered donating, but probably won't simply because of the abuse that DB and the very few others like him dish out.

SurfBoy
02-20-2004, 11:11 AM
Just an observation, Vadim. It seems DB's latest string of posts is just as abusive and vile as his previous spew of crap. I'm venturing a guess that the rules aren't going to influence him...


[edit] Here's a good reason (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=148065&postcount=11) why DB should be muzzled. The poster has considered donating, but probably won't simply because of the abuse that DB and the very few others like him dish out.

i don't see the *abusive and vile*.
perhaps you should read the whole thread Redhat and dvr40 (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32383)

Meklos
02-20-2004, 11:39 AM
i don't see the *abusive and vile*.
perhaps you should read the whole thread Redhat and dvr40 (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32383)

OK let's try this again. The quote from the user in question, talking about/to DB:

"I'm hoping I won't be treated by others they way you do, or I won't be spending much time here I with not see the need to donate. As this would be a reflection and endorsement of your behavior, and THAT I will not do."

The point is that by letting DB continue to abuse new posters (and old ones), the board admin is probably losing out on donations from this specific user, and probably others. Who knows how many people, *good* people, DB's antics have run off who might have contributed money to the board?

My quote of "It seems DB's latest string of posts is just as abusive and vile as his previous spew of crap." was not specifically just in reference to his post in the thread in question, but all posts he has made since the new rules were published. If you read his posts from before the new rules, then read those after, you won't find much difference.

A gem from 2/18:

"Why the hell did you bump a two year old image begging thread?"
"Post this shit in the NEWBIE forum or on AVS. We don't tolerate it here."


DB's actions, if allowed to continue, are a reflection on this board... and not a good reflection. He has a custom title, and to newbie forum readers, it looks like he's part of the management. He can close threads, boss people around, tell them off using insults, and different user class than other people (Forun Janitor)... it's easy for new readers to get the idea that he actually does run things around here. And just as easy for them to leave, fed up with his insulting, demeaning, condescending tone.

Vadim
02-20-2004, 11:52 AM
I hear you guys,
The thing is right now are hands are a bit tied, because we do not have specific rules in place, but were are having a meeting with all the mods in few days to fix this issue. Be assured that we are trying to resolve this and come up with the best outcome.
I apologize for DB and like I said before, we will make sure everything will be fixed! And cleaned up! I'm just really busy with the new server and my personal life but this will be resolved very very short!




OK let's try this again. The quote from the user in question, talking about/to DB:

"I'm hoping I won't be treated by others they way you do, or I won't be spending much time here I with not see the need to donate. As this would be a reflection and endorsement of your behavior, and THAT I will not do."

The point is that by letting DB continue to abuse new posters (and old ones), the board admin is probably losing out on donations from this specific user, and probably others. Who knows how many people, *good* people, DB's antics have run off who might have contributed money to the board?

My quote of "It seems DB's latest string of posts is just as abusive and vile as his previous spew of crap." was not specifically just in reference to his post in the thread in question, but all posts he has made since the new rules were published. If you read his posts from before the new rules, then read those after, you won't find much difference.

A gem from 2/18:

"Why the hell did you bump a two year old image begging thread?"
"Post this shit in the NEWBIE forum or on AVS. We don't tolerate it here."


DB's actions, if allowed to continue, are a reflection on this board... and not a good reflection. He has a custom title, and to newbie forum readers, it looks like he's part of the management. He can close threads, boss people around, tell them off using insults, and different user class than other people (Forun Janitor)... it's easy for new readers to get the idea that he actually does run things around here. And just as easy for them to leave, fed up with his insulting, demeaning, condescending tone.

JJBliss
02-20-2004, 12:00 PM
DB's actions, if allowed to continue, are a reflection on this board... and not a good reflection. He has a custom title, and to newbie forum readers, it looks like he's part of the management. He can close threads, boss people around, tell them off using insults, and different user class than other people (Forun Janitor)... it's easy for new readers to get the idea that he actually does run things around here. And just as easy for them to leave, fed up with his insulting, demeaning, condescending tone.

David Bought's actions are in no way a reflection on this board. Just as a rude or noisy neighboor should not be a reflection on the entire neighboorhood or community.

His custom title is a remnant from when users on this board were allowed to create their own custom titles, after they had passed a minimum post count. That in no way indicates that he is a different user class. He is, at his very best, just an average user.

David Bought cannot close threads despite his incessant incantations of "-Thread Closed-". If you allow yourself to be "bossed around" by David, then I feel sorry for you. How dare you allow yourself to be "bossed around" by someone with no power, whom you don't even know. Are you collectively that unsure of yourselves?

If users choose to leave the premier Tivo forum due to David Bought's "tone", then I feel sorry for them. Bought, nor other malcontents will drive me away from my hobby, or from reading, or from learning. Are these the same folks who would turn tail, and run from the schoolyard bully?

David Bought has a poor personality, but a personality nonetheless. He is bright. Almost to a fault. He is not a kind, tolerant, nice, soft-hearted, wishy washy person. Get over it. Not everyone is.

You will all continue to meet personalities like this your whole lives. Get used to it. Leave if you must, but you cannot shut someone down, or ban them if they A) don't agree with you, or B) don't have the personaility you like or approve of. However, you can construe him as one of the many varied characters on this forum and read his commentary as to disagree or not as the case may warrant.

He is nothing more than a collection of letters on screen. He is not real. It's an internet forum for god sakes. Read his work, or don't. Your choice. Stay at dealdatabase, or don't. Your choice. Form your own forum, or don't. Your choice. Identify what is important in his vile blather and use it to your benefit, or don't. Your choice.

But for the love of cripes, stop complaining about it.

Disclaimer:
This is MY opinion and not AT ALL the official stance of DDB management, and should not be taken as such. If and when rules become official that require a banning (either temporary or permanent), I will enforce the rules without question. At this point, David Bought has not violated any unspoken rules. Though he has in the past, and has been put in the penalty box. I am quite sure that once the official rules are posted, he will invariably violate one or more of them in time. That remains to be seen.

C_Monkey
02-20-2004, 12:36 PM
But for the love of cripes, stop complaining about it.



I see YOU are a moderator here, I would like to think you would at least 'for the love of cripes' tell him to take it down a noch? I mean to be fair here, you are asking the entire community to just be quite, and put up with it. I would think you could at LEAST try and make him understand that his tone is not well received nor desired. And we ALL share this space THANKS to Vadim.

As far as his actions reflecting the entire community, I beg to differ. I know of cetain areas in my city that you wouldn't want to walk freely at night. Does that mean that ALL the people that live there are bad? NO. What it does mean is that the city administration allows that activity to take place. If the authority inforces the rules that are set forth things will change. Those areas evolve into bad places over time. The people that won't put up with it, leave as you suggest we do, and what you are left with are only those that they left from.

Meklos
02-20-2004, 12:54 PM
David Bought's actions are in no way a reflection on this board. Just as a rude or noisy neighboor should not be a reflection on the entire neighboorhood or community.

But they are. I just posted this link so you could see yet another new user completely thrown for a loop by DB.

Imagine you walk into a restaurant. You've never been in this place before. You glance around and see people wearing aprons and red vests. A guy in a red vest walks up to you, punches you in the nose and tells you you're standing in the wrong place - you need to go stand over there in the 'to be seated' area. You didn't know, you just walked in. Maybe you were at fault for not knowing, maybe it was posted... but you missed it. That doesn't change the fact that now your nose is bleeding over something that could and SHOULD have been handled more tactfully.

The guy was wearing a red vest. Are you going to assume he works there, since all the other people wearing red vests seem to be working there? Yes. You're going to turn around and never visit that place again.

By allowing DB to continue his mod-impersonation antics, you legitimize his actions.


His custom title is a remnant from when users on this board were allowed to create their own custom titles, after they had passed a minimum post count. That in no way indicates that he is a different user class. He is, at his very best, just an average user.

Really? And you could tell that the guy in the example was not really an employee by the fact that he had his nametag on the wrong side of his vest, right?

Wrong. His custom header gives him a 'badge of legitimacy', since only a few users have them. Right or wrong, I'm not telling you how things *are*, I'm telling you how they're perceived by new users. Remember the old expression about first impressions...


David Bought cannot close threads despite his incessant incantations of "-Thread Closed-".

Then stop him.


If you allow yourself to be "bossed around" by David, then I feel sorry for you. How dare you allow yourself to be "bossed around" by someone with no power, whom you don't even know. Are you collectively that unsure of yourselves?

We're talking about new users here. You know DB's not a person of authority. Malfunct knows it. Sleeper knows it. I know it... now, after being a daily member of the forum for a while, reading around. How is a new user supposed to tell the difference, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE?


If users choose to leave the premier Tivo forum due to David Bought's "tone", then I feel sorry for them. Bought, nor other malcontents will drive me away from my hobby, or from reading, or from learning. Are these the same folks who would turn tail, and run from the schoolyard bully?

Don't feel sorry for them. They're simply doing what most people would do. They were insulted, they were berated, and they simply won't come back. You would do it in your daily life with a place of business, why should they be any different? If the guy in the red vest is actually a customer, and management allows him to treat the new customers that way, then they are condoning and even seemingly endorsing his actions. If you control the place, you don't allow things to happen that you don't like if they are within your control. You do something about them, up to and including throwing the bum out.

And this has nothing to do with the schoolyard. Most of the visitors here are adults, and we adults handle differences much differently than we did on the playground. If I punch you in the nose on a playground, I probably will miss recess the next day. If I do it on the streetcorner today, I'll probably have a hefty fine and spend a few days in jail. Much different.




David Bought has a poor personality, but a personality nonetheless. He is bright. Almost to a fault. He is not a kind, tolerant, nice, soft-hearted, wishy washy person. Get over it. Not everyone is.

Fine, and I don't have to associate with him, or go to the same places where he does. If it gets to that point, I won't go to the places where he frequents, where he is coddled, understood instead of disciplined, and allowed to act like he runs the place - literally and figuratively.

Meklos
02-20-2004, 12:56 PM
You will all continue to meet personalities like this your whole lives. Get used to it. Leave if you must, but you cannot shut someone down, or ban them if they A) don't agree with you, or B) don't have the personaility you like or approve of. However, you can construe him as one of the many varied characters on this forum and read his commentary as to disagree or not as the case may warrant.

Yep, all kinds of personalities in this world. And in the real world, those that don't conform to societal norms have differing degrees of punishment. Here, they're ignored at best, encouraged at worst it seems. In any case, I'm talking about the impression that he gives to the new user, and thus the growth of the community here on this forum. If you don't want this community and hobby to grow and flourish, then by all means coddle DB... let him run rampant over the new users, who should be viewed as the life blood of this board. No, not all of them should be here, but they don't know that yet, and neither do we. It will take them time to determine if this is a hobby they can do, or will enjoy.



He is nothing more than a collection of letters on screen. He is not real. It's an internet forum for god sakes. Read his work, or don't. Your choice. Stay at dealdatabase, or don't. Your choice. Form your own forum, or don't. Your choice. Identify what is important in his vile blather and use it to your benefit, or don't. Your choice.

Wow. This is amazing. From all the other forums I've ever been in, new users were something to hold on to. Every moderation job I've ever done, every BBS I've ever run, every job in real life I've ever done, one of the key founding principles is DON'T RUN OFF THE CUSTOMERS. Now here's a moderator implying that I should leave, not in so many words.

A moderator is never off the clock. Each and every post a moderator makes should be from the 'official' point of view. If a moderator wants to make posts with a 'personal' point of view, another login should be used. Any post with a header of 'Moderator' is and will be read as the official stance of the place he's moderating for.


But for the love of cripes, stop complaining about it.

Hmmm... If I were that guy in the schoolyard that ran away from the bullies, I just might. However, just like DB, I have broken no rules that I'm aware of. So until that time comes, I'll stay and post MY opinions just as much as I feel, just like DB is allowed to. In my opinion, DB should conform to the 'Be Nice to Others' rule, or it should be removed.

What's the point to a rule if it's most egregious offenders are allowed to break that rule at will?



Disclaimer:
This is MY opinion and not AT ALL the official stance of DDB management, and should not be taken as such. If and when rules become official that require a banning (either temporary or permanent), I will enforce the rules without question. At this point, David Bought has not violated any unspoken rules. Though he has in the past, and has been put in the penalty box. I am quite sure that once the official rules are posted, he will invariably violate one or more of them in time. That remains to be seen.

The new rules have been posted, and they included the 'Be Nice' rules, if I'm not mistaken. If those aren't the rules in force, delete the post or rename it Proposed Rules. And read the above section about always being on the clock. If you want to post your opinion and not have it to be read as the Official Stance of the Board, get another nick. I may not read it as the official stance, but it's just too easy for many people to make the easy association between your official stance and your words.

JJBliss
02-20-2004, 01:57 PM
I see YOU are a moderator here, I would like to think you would at least 'for the love of cripes' tell him to take it down a noch? I mean to be fair here, you are asking the entire community to just be quite, and put up with it. I would think you could at LEAST try and make him understand that his tone is not well received nor desired. And we ALL share this space THANKS to Vadim.


He has been asked to alter his personality. I think it's a rather difficult task to ask someone to do, but yet, we've done that.



As far as his actions reflecting the entire community, I beg to differ. I know of cetain areas in my city that you wouldn't want to walk freely at night. Does that mean that ALL the people that live there are bad? NO. What it does mean is that the city administration allows that activity to take place. If the authority inforces the rules that are set forth things will change. Those areas evolve into bad places over time.


I think you might be reffering to places where it is unsafe, and/or criminal activity is taking place. David Bought's attitude is neither illegal (at this point), or harmful, or dangerous. It is merely an expression of ideas. It seem quite safe to me.

fixn278
02-20-2004, 02:01 PM
I can't believe all of this is over posts that one person made.

For goodness sake, he is not a bully in the schoolyard, he is not someone impersonating a waiter, he's not a thug you need to watch out for when you walk down the street. These are all people that can physically hurt you. He is just a person at the end of a keyboard.

I wouldn't phrase my responses like he does, and I don't agree with his methods, but for goodness sake, it's just text on a screen. Are we all that immature that we don't have the ability to not read his posts if they offend us? The thing that differentiates children from adults is free-will and good judgement. As an adult, you can ignore his words. If you are not capable of ignoring someone, then maybe you have taken one too many "sensitivity" courses. Welcome to America where people can say what they want as long as they don't put anyone in danger.

I think people need to be selective about what they read or get thicker skin.

Hint: When someone makes inflammatory comments, they intend to provoke a response. When you provide the expected response, the inflammatory comments continue.

JJBliss
02-20-2004, 02:10 PM
Really? And you could tell that the guy in the example was not really an employee by the fact that he had his nametag on the wrong side of his vest, right?


Why, Yes. The moderators of any site are clearly listed in the main index page. Since the only means of communication we have in the "forum world" is reading and writing, I can assume that folks read about the enviroment that they are entering, and not rely on anecdotal visual cues, such as red vests and aprons.



Wrong. His custom header gives him a 'badge of legitimacy', since only a few users have them. Right or wrong, I'm not telling you how things *are*, I'm telling you how they're perceived by new users. Remember the old expression about first impressions...


ahh.. The age old "perception is reality" addage. No, I regret to inform you, that indeed, "reality is reality", not perception.



Then stop him.


No! If I must stop him from doing something that annoys YOU, then I can stop YOU from doing something that annoys someone else. YOU don't get to choose what someone can and can't say, nor how they can act. In order for your arguments to be sound, you must show the same tolerance that you require from him.



We're talking about new users here. You know DB's not a person of authority. Malfunct knows it. Sleeper knows it. I know it... now, after being a daily member of the forum for a while, reading around. How is a new user supposed to tell the difference, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE?


Once again, using the reading and writing tools that are necessary when "exisitng" in an on-line forum, all uers are free to read the forum leaders, as well as the posts about Bought.



And this has nothing to do with the schoolyard. Most of the visitors here are adults, and we adults handle differences much differently than we did on the playground. If I punch you in the nose on a playground, I probably will miss recess the next day. If I do it on the streetcorner today, I'll probably have a hefty fine and spend a few days in jail. Much different.


I've heard comments like this before and the analogy is poor. You are using a metaphor of violence and criminal activity. David Bought is merely obnoxious, nasty and mean spirited. None of these things will get you arrested in the "real world", or carry a fine of any sort.

Meklos
02-20-2004, 02:20 PM
ahh.. The age old "perception is reality" addage. No, I regret to inform you, that indeed, "reality is reality", not perception.

Believe what you want.... This board is losing users, and donations, because of DB. To the new user, perception is indeed reality. You can post all you want about "this list of official moderators", "that list of official moderators". If the guy in the blue shirt and black pants with the badge tells you to move along, you don't run down to City Hall to find out if he's a real city employee.

In this world, yes... perception is reality, especially if the user doesn't hang around long enough to find out what reality actually is.




No! If I must stop him from doing something that annoys YOU, then I can stop YOU from doing something that annoys someone else. YOU don't get to choose what someone can and can't say, nor how they can act. In order for your arguments to be sound, you must show the same tolerance that you require from him.

Isn't impersonating a moderator against the rules? If not, shouldn't it be?



I've heard comments like this before and the analogy is poor. You are using a metaphor of violence and criminal activity. David Bought is merely obnoxious, nasty and mean spirited. None of these things will get you arrested in the "real world", or carry a fine of any sort.

I'm talking about breaking the rules. There is no such think as violence or criminal activity within the construct of "Forum Rules", but there are rules. If we're going to just ignore them for one person, why have them at all?

JJBliss
02-20-2004, 02:22 PM
Wow. This is amazing. From all the other forums I've ever been in, new users were something to hold on to. Every moderation job I've ever done, every BBS I've ever run, every job in real life I've ever done, one of the key founding principles is DON'T RUN OFF THE CUSTOMERS. Now here's a moderator implying that I should leave, not in so many words.


I am implying nothing. I am very explicitly telling you that this is a free will and free speech society. If you dislike something, start your own. The United States was founded on such principles. Just like the community of members who fled TCF for DDB so many years ago, you are free to begin your own community where you can control folks' personalities, and ban those who do not conform with your way of speaking, and do not mimick your beliefs. I do not approve of the way David Bought treats people, but it is against my personal principles to do anything about it, unless he breaks one of Vadim's rules, which as of recent, he has not (since the rules are not yet posted). This may change.



A moderator is never off the clock. Each and every post a moderator makes should be from the 'official' point of view.


Where the hell did you hear that rule !?!? Sorry bud, this job don't pay enough to be 24/7 on-call. I am a moderator here in ADDITION to being a participant. As a participant, I am as entitled to an opinion as you are, and some might even say more so.



If a moderator wants to make posts with a 'personal' point of view, another login should be used. Any post with a header of 'Moderator' is and will be read as the official stance of the place he's moderating for.


whhaaaaa-a-at?!?! Ok. That was silly. Nonetheless, I suspected that some inexperienced readers would not understand the difference between forum representation and individual opinion, so I posted my original comments with a disclaimer.

Remeber, I may not agree with what you say, but i will defend with my life your right to say it.



Hmmm... If I were that guy in the schoolyard that ran away from the bullies, I just might. However, just like DB, I have broken no rules that I'm aware of. So until that time comes, I'll stay and post MY opinions just as much as I feel, just like DB is allowed to.


YAY !!! Great. I'm glad we agree.



In my opinion, DB should conform to the 'Be Nice to Others' rule, or it should be removed.


There is currently no such rule. There may be one in the future, but it will be quite hard to police if it is that vague, as I find it hard to empirically measure what it "Nice".



What's the point to a rule if it's most egregious offenders are allowed to break that rule at will?

At this time, no such rule exists.



And read the above section about always being on the clock. If you want to post your opinion and not have it to be read as the Official Stance of the Board, get another nick. I may not read it as the official stance, but it's just too easy for many people to make the easy association between your official stance and your words.

If you are suggesting that a moderator not have ANY personal opinions, then I am shocked that you would choose to humiliate yourself in such a public forum. Read the disclaimer, and revisit your ideas about forum moderation. This is partial evidence as to why YOU do not moderate.

Meklos
02-20-2004, 02:28 PM
Welcome to America where people can say what they want as long as they don't put anyone in danger.

Not in my house, they don't. If they say something that offends me, they get shown the door. I am the owner and 'moderator' of my environment, the environment which I control.

In effect, this is Vadim's house. We are all guests. The First Amendment does not exist here, so before someone starts quoting about Free Speech, don't.

C_Monkey
02-20-2004, 02:33 PM
I can't believe all of this is over posts that one person made.

For goodness sake, he is not a bully in the schoolyard, he is not someone impersonating a waiter, he's not a thug you need to watch out for when you walk down the street. These are all people that can physically hurt you. He is just a person at the end of a keyboard.

letters on the screen: Hummm ****, mother****er, ******* ,**********

so tell me again why those choice letters I typed on the screen were banned?

perhaps a disclaimer should be part of the rules, that user beware that one particular user can and will insult you, be rude to you in anyway he possibly can. It's not something were are sorry for, because we have no control over his personallity, that's just the way he is.


Sounds more like he is bossing you around. Which he is chuckling about right now I'm sure.

JJBliss
02-20-2004, 02:40 PM
Not in my house, they don't. If they say something that offends me, they get shown the door. I am the owner and 'moderator' of my environment, the environment which I control.

In effect, this is Vadim's house. We are all guests. The First Amendment does not exist here, so before someone starts quoting about Free Speech, don't.


Riiii-ght... Exactly. Perfect! Remind me to quote this in our later conversations.

So, since this is NOT your house, you must abide by Vadim's rules. Since these rules do not yet exist, you might be best sutied to stop postulating what they might be. However, since Vadim and DDB are a direct offshoot of a restrictive forum like TCF where freedom of speech is all but eradicated in the name of sponsorship and boondoggling, I think we take extra special care in allowing folks to A) have an opinion, and B) express it how they like.

Remember again, the same unspoken policy that keeps DB here, is the same one that allows you to post your dissent and disagreement. It works both ways. If we are to "clamp down" on the likes of DB, then YOU TOO would be in violation for questioning the moderators view and actions. Sounds quite totalitarian, no?

JJBliss
02-20-2004, 02:47 PM
letters on the screen: Hummm ****, mother****er, ******* ,**********
so tell me again why those choice letters I typed on the screen were banned?


Because they are not conducive to dialectic. They show ignorance and lack of command of the English language. They should be banned, if for now other reason then to increase the readability and possible comprehension of a forum. What other words, or people, or thoughts, or personailities, or ideas would you like to see banned ?



perhaps a disclaimer should be part of the rules, that user beware that one particular user can and will insult you, be rude to you in anyway he possibly can. It's not something were are sorry for, because we have no control over his personallity, that's just the way he is.


JEEEZUS !! Isn't that a disclaimer for all of life?!?



Sounds more like he is bossing you around. Which he is chuckling about right now I'm sure.

Huh ? :confused:

Meklos
02-20-2004, 02:50 PM
Where the hell did you hear that rule !?!? Sorry bud, this job don't pay enough to be 24/7 on-call. I am a moderator here in ADDITION to being a participant. As a participant, I am as entitled to an opinion as you are, and some might even say more so.

...

whhaaaaa-a-at?!?! Ok. That was silly. Nonetheless, I suspected that some inexperienced readers would not understand the difference between forum representation and individual opinion, so I posted my original comments with a disclaimer.
It's the same school of thought that keeps cops from going out drinking in uniform, or judges from strolling through the mall in their robes. Those in positions of authority must walk a very fine line, separating their 'official' duties from their personal opinions.


You obviously didn't get what I was trying to say, so let me try again a different way. A moderator is on duty every time he/she posts. Each post from a moderator nick can be viewed by someone as the Official Stance. To keep that from happening, a separation is made. Just as the cop changes clothes and takes off the badge, moderators should change nicks and take off the title. It's just common sense, to keep the 'members of the public' from misconstruing 'Official' from 'Personal'.


There is currently no such rule. There may be one in the future, but it will be quite hard to police if it is that vague, as I find it hard to empirically measure what it "Nice".


At this time, no such rule exists.

Then I await the day they do.




If you are suggesting that a moderator not have ANY personal opinions, then I am shocked that you would choose to humiliate yourself in such a public forum. Read the disclaimer, and revisit your ideas about forum moderation. This is partial evidence as to why YOU do not moderate.

Wow, thanks for the personal insult! I have moderated for forums in the past, as well as run BBSs (that should date me - ugh). My ideas about moderation come from personal experience, from realizing the similarities and differences between the online world and the real world, and trying to understand why some rules exist in the real world - and how to carry them over into the online world.

I've watched entire online communities tear themselves apart over the actions, and inactions of those in authority. I've seen unfortunate real life incidents come from online encounters that never should have been allowed to escalate to that point.

Back when I was modding, I actually went back and studied old law systems, starting with the Code of Hammurabi. You would be amazed at some of that old stuff - and why it wouldn't apply today in a literal sense... such as:

" If any one bring an accusation against a man, and the accused go to the river and leap into the river, if he sink in the river his accuser shall take possession of his house. But if the river prove that the accused is not guilty, and he escape unhurt, then he who had brought the accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall take possession of the house that had belonged to his accuser."

It's obvious we can't use this law literally, but what would we call that law today? Perjury.

We don't have any new ideas for laws, so why try to make them up as you go?

JJBliss
02-20-2004, 02:59 PM
You obviously didn't get what I was trying to say, so let me try again a different way. A moderator is on duty every time he/she posts. Each post from a moderator nick can be viewed by someone as the Official Stance. To keep that from happening, a separation is made. Just as the cop changes clothes and takes off the badge, moderators should change nicks and take off the title. It's just common sense, to keep the 'members of the public' from misconstruing 'Official' from 'Personal'.


I'm pretty sure that no one will mistake my comments as Official, though I now begin to wonder if they actually are. I added the disclaimer to prevent such a misunderstanding that might occur when people don't read and comprehend effectively. Since I do not own the forum, I am reticent to proclaim anything as stipulated fact, though I am indeed stating MY personal view of how I choose to proceed while I am in that "position of authority".

Since Vadim has granted a few of us that ability, maybe I am speaking officially. At this time, until rules are presented to the contrary, David Bought has the right to say what he wants, and how, unless it violates other pre-determined rules of the forum as deemed appropriate by Vadim and the other moderators.

Official enough?

JJBliss
DealDatabase Moderator

Meklos
02-20-2004, 02:59 PM
Riiii-ght... Exactly. Perfect! Remind me to quote this in our later conversations.

So, since this is NOT your house, you must abide by Vadim's rules. Since these rules do not yet exist, you might be best sutied to stop postulating what they might be. However, since Vadim and DDB are a direct offshoot of a restrictive forum like TCF where freedom of speech is all but eradicated in the name of sponsorship and boondoggling, I think we take extra special care in allowing folks to A) have an opinion, and B) express it how they like.

Remember again, the same unspoken policy that keeps DB here, is the same one that allows you to post your dissent and disagreement. It works both ways. If we are to "clamp down" on the likes of DB, then YOU TOO would be in violation for questioning the moderators view and actions. Sounds quite totalitarian, no?


Vadim has already voiced his opinion towards DB, and it matches my thoughts on the matter. I'm just waiting for the implementation.

C_Monkey
02-20-2004, 03:08 PM
Because they are not conducive to dialectic. They show ignorance and lack of command of the English language. They should be banned, if for now other reason then to increase the readability and possible comprehension of a forum. What other words, or people, or thoughts, or personailities, or ideas would you like to see banned ?


they are just letters on screen. most of some users' substitute's go get under the filter aren't conducive to dialectic either, but you chose to allow those.




JEEEZUS !! Isn't that a disclaimer for all of life?!?


Not in my house... so what you are saying in your house (this one you have been asked to enforce rules on) it's ok then?




Huh ? :confused:

meaning you talk to him(as you said you have many times), he does NOTHING to respect your wishes, or your authority, or even personally and you take no action, and let him continue doing everything you just told him not to. From his stand point, my stand point you've been bossed around. If my employees did and said what he does and says, I warned them NOT to and they continued... Terminated! That's why were are called bosses.

bossed around ... still confused?

fixn278
02-20-2004, 03:12 PM
Not in my house, they don't. If they say something that offends me, they get shown the door. I am the owner and 'moderator' of my environment, the environment which I control.

In effect, this is Vadim's house. We are all guests. The First Amendment does not exist here, so before someone starts quoting about Free Speech, don't.

Last I checked, this isn't your house.

It is indeed Vadim's house, and if he decides someone is not welcome here, he will show them the "door" not you. Only Vadim decides if the first ammendment doesn't apply here, not you.

Maybe you missed the point of the first ammendment. It allows you to ask me not to quote the 1st ammendment as well as allowing me to ignore you and do it anyway.

Grow up. If words on a page (that nobody is forcing you to read) are the worst of your problems, then maybe you need a little perspective.

JJBliss
02-20-2004, 03:18 PM
Not in my house... so what you are saying in your house (this one you have been asked to enforce rules on) it's ok then?


Yes, of course I am.



meaning you talk to him(as you said you have many times), he does NOTHING to respect your wishes, or your authority, or even personally and you take no action, and let him continue doing everything you just told him not to. From his stand point, my stand point you've been bossed around. If my employees did and said what he does and says, I warned them NOT to and they continued... Terminated! That's why were are called bosses.

bossed around ... still confused?

See, as I've mentioned in the past, that last paragraph irritated me and yet you'll kindly take note that you are not banned. You spoke your mind.

I will be happy to ratify a rule that would allow me to ban David Bought, You, Meklos, and all the others who disagree, or have a snide attitude towards users, or moderators. You must learn to live by the rules you choose to inflict on others.

DB, as well as you have an opinion and you voice it. Since DB is NOT one of my employees, I suppose your analogy does not hold water. Moreover, I never remeber being called a "Boss" here by anyone else besides you.

DB is one of the users (like you) of the free forum provided by the forum owner. You both can feel free to say whatever you want. If it becomes MY exclusive decision to ban or penalize people who I don't like, then you are gone too. See how power can be abused if not used rationally?

By the way, I am intrigued by the amount of interest both you and Meklos have on this topic, and the percentage of your post count that is dedicated to it. Maybe your time would be better spent hacking/learning about your tivo's, and less time on David Bought.

fixn278
02-20-2004, 03:18 PM
letters on the screen: Hummm ****, mother****er, ******* ,**********

so tell me again why those choice letters I typed on the screen were banned?


The owner of the board decided to.


perhaps a disclaimer should be part of the rules, that user beware that one particular user can and will insult you, be rude to you in anyway he possibly can. It's not something were are sorry for, because we have no control over his personallity, that's just the way he is.


Then life should come with a disclaimer.


Sounds more like he is bossing you around. Which he is chuckling about right now I'm sure.

Free-will man, I do things because I want to.

JJBliss
02-20-2004, 03:26 PM
Just for the edification of the user population, I have permanently banned C_Monkey.

NOT for expresing his opinions, but for using an alternate user account to evade the "self-imposed" ban put on him by his Hi8 account, and the permanent one issued by mrblack51 for his last evasion.

master
02-20-2004, 04:57 PM
AMEN brothers and sisters :D
Janitor got to go and get a real job cleaning s*****y toilets.
;)

Meklos
02-20-2004, 10:35 PM
By the way, I am intrigued by the amount of interest both you and Meklos have on this topic, and the percentage of your post count that is dedicated to it. Maybe your time would be better spent hacking/learning about your tivo's, and less time on David Bought.


Which is exactly what I'm doing... reading lots and lots of posts, especially in the newbie section, where lots of early questions that I still haven't run across have been posted and answered.

And it is in the newbie posts that DB seems to spit his venom the most. He says he doesn't like newbies, but he sure does spend a lot of time calling them rude names.

I've seen DB cause more fights, more arguing than any other posters combined, and I'm still amazed with the crap he's allowed to get away with. He's running off your community, one by one... but you don't seem to care. And that's the amazing part, cause Vadim does and has already publicly stated as much.

Anyway, I guess I'll just watch DB insult more people, run off more people, then see what happens when the new rules come out again. I wasn't aware that they were published then pulled... I'm assuming that is what happened.

David Bought
02-20-2004, 11:31 PM
And it is in the newbie posts that DB seems to spit his venom the most. He says he doesn't like newbies, but he sure does spend a lot of time calling them rude names.

Wrong, I dislike newbies who are too damn lazy to post beginner questions in the correct forum. Newbies who do their research and act like responsible members of the community are fine by me.

DDB is our home. If you are going to come here asking the same questions we've heard a thousand times before, show a little f***ing respect and post them in the area we set up for that.


Anyway, I guess I'll just watch DB insult more people, run off more people,

I'll send the repair guy out first thing tomorrow morning to look into that broken "ignore" button on your account. :D


Fine, and I don't have to associate with him, or go to the same places where he does. If it gets to that point, I won't go to the places where he frequents, where he is coddled, understood instead of disciplined, and allowed to act like he runs the place - literally and figuratively.

BWAHAHAHA... You spend all of your time on this board whining and asking stupid questions. Why the hell would anybody miss you if you left? You've produced nothing and you have no knowledge to share.

Hint: when you want to threaten somebody, try to find something they actually care about.

P.S. THREAD CLOSED. Suck it up.

mrblack51
02-21-2004, 12:06 AM
Just for the edification of the user population, I have permanently banned C_Monkey.

NOT for expresing his opinions, but for using an alternate user account to evade the "self-imposed" ban put on him by his Hi8 account, and the permanent one issued by mrblack51 for his last evasion.

jmhddbf was also banned for the same reason...maybe he/she will learn

Meklos
02-21-2004, 07:47 AM
I'll send the repair guy out first thing tomorrow morning to look into that broken "ignore" button on your account. :D
You mean, the same button you should be using, instead of replying to the people who post in the wrong place, since you obviously hate them so much? And then, we wouldn't be subjected to your tirades of abuse, Vadim wouldn't get daily messages about how you're disrupting the forum so that he can spend time doing other things, like concentrating on his daily life, upgrading the server, etc? All the time he's had to spend to write these rules, when I'll bet you are more than 50% of the reason he has had to write them, he could have been spending that time getting the new server in.

Let's see... two scenarios. One, everyone has to find out how abusive DB is and eventually has to ignore him - although some won't make it that long and will leave... Or two, DB shows some restraint, starts ignoring the newbie posts instead of spending his epeen-growth time responding to them just so that he can get people upset, and the only person that might have to use their ignore button is DB himself.

Either one person ends up ignoring a lot of people, or a lot of people end up ignoring one person. Clear choice, that one is...




BWAHAHAHA... You spend all of your time on this board whining and asking stupid questions. Why the hell would anybody miss you if you left? You've produced nothing and you have no knowledge to share.

Hmmm... Been here a month, answered a few questions, clicked on a few ads, about to place an order through a click-through with a sponsor... Yeah, I haven't done anything productive. /sarcasm off

I don't see any hacks with your name on them. Pretty hypocritical there... and you've been here a lot longer. And that's not the only area where you're a hypocrite, either...




Hint: when you want to threaten somebody, try to find something they actually care about.
I didn't threaten you in any way. That statement was pointed towards the forum management. You see, it's obvious that you care neither about the community or the forum. Cause if you cared about the community, you would be trying to make it grow instead of standing at the door punching every new visitor in the nose. And if you cared about the forum, you would be following the wishes of your gracious host, stop causing all the trouble you're causing, and act civilized.

How do you think Vadim keeps this place going? Money. Where does he get money?

1) Visitors, via ads and click-though purchases
2) Donations from visitors

So it looks like to me, you're costing Vadim money, not to mention the time spent dealing with the problems you cause. All of this is academic, however. Vadim has already warned you publicly, and I have no doubt that you will never be able to stop insulting


P.S. THREAD CLOSED. Suck it up.
Hmm, it seems your admin button isn't working. How odd...

StanSimmons
02-21-2004, 10:49 AM
I haven't donated because of DB. And I know of two others that haven't donated because of DB. I'm sure there are others...

David, you ARE costing this board money, and you will CONTINUE to cost this board money as long as you are unreasonably abusive. You claim to want to help this board, but as far as I can tell, you primarily rant and rave at the newbies.

Yes, you seem to have good technical skills, and yes you have contributed some technical information in some threads... But the VAST majority of your postings are abusive and ridden with coarse language. If you don't like that a newbie has posted in the wrong area, then PM a mod to get the thread moved, don't dump all over the newbie...

Personally, I don't care if you are banned or not. Until your "style" of posting is modified (by you, or the mods) I won't be donating. The fact that your rantings, style and language are tolerated by the management of this board indicates that they approve of it...

I don't approve of that type of behavior, and I won't subsidize it.

David Bought
02-22-2004, 06:46 PM
You mean, the same button you should be using, instead of replying to the people who post in the wrong place, since you obviously hate them so much?

Wrong, there is no button for "ignore stupidity".


Vadim wouldn't get daily messages about how you're disrupting the forum

Too bad, I'm not the one who gets the absentee owner involved in petty disputes. Grow a pair and fight your own damn battles instead of whining to the admins.


Hmmm... Been here a month, answered a few questions, clicked on a few ads, about to place an order through a click-through with a sponsor... Yeah, I haven't done anything productive.

Agreed, you are useless. You know nothing and you produce nothing in this field.


I didn't threaten you in any way. That statement was pointed towards the forum management.

Understood. Open your eyes - they don't give a shit about you or your whiner friends.


So it looks like to me, you're costing Vadim money

Good thing this site is a volunteer effort, not a business.

Grow the hell up. Nobody cares about your bitching.

mrblack51
02-22-2004, 07:20 PM
i find it despicable that people on this board are suggesting that by clicking on ads or donating, that they are either above the rules, or exempt from them...that they should somehow be treated better or worse because of it. until there are different user classes for donating and non-donating people, dont come here complaining that "i donated, therefore you shouldnt move my thread from X forum to the newbie forum", or "i donated, why didnt i get an answer in 30 seconds". remember folks, its a donation, not a subscription. you are doing it out of the kindness of your heart because you feel like supporting the forum, you are not paying to obtain X level of service.

Meklos
02-22-2004, 11:08 PM
i find it despicable that people on this board are suggesting that by clicking on ads or donating, that they are either above the rules, or exempt from them...that they should somehow be treated better or worse because of it. until there are different user classes for donating and non-donating people, dont come here complaining that "i donated, therefore you shouldnt move my thread from X forum to the newbie forum", or "i donated, why didnt i get an answer in 30 seconds". remember folks, its a donation, not a subscription. you are doing it out of the kindness of your heart because you feel like supporting the forum, you are not paying to obtain X level of service.

Hmm... I'm going to guess you're talking about someone else, because that's not at all what I said.

StanSimmons
02-23-2004, 12:16 AM
i find it despicable that people on this board are suggesting that by clicking on ads or donating, that they are either above the rules, or exempt from them...that they should somehow be treated better or worse because of it. until there are different user classes for donating and non-donating people, dont come here complaining that "i donated, therefore you shouldnt move my thread from X forum to the newbie forum", or "i donated, why didnt i get an answer in 30 seconds". remember folks, its a donation, not a subscription. you are doing it out of the kindness of your heart because you feel like supporting the forum, you are not paying to obtain X level of service.

Huh? :confused: This thread has mainly been about DB's abusive behavior and the tacit approval of that behavior by the mods. The ONLY person that seems exempt from the rules is DB...

Sleeper
02-23-2004, 12:50 AM
I haven't donated because of DB. And I know of two others that haven't donated because of DB. I'm sure there are others...

David, you ARE costing this board money, and you will CONTINUE to cost this board money as long as you are unreasonably abusive. You claim to want to help this board, but as far as I can tell, you primarily rant and rave at the newbies.

Yes, you seem to have good technical skills, and yes you have contributed some technical information in some threads... But the VAST majority of your postings are abusive and ridden with coarse language. If you don't like that a newbie has posted in the wrong area, then PM a mod to get the thread moved, don't dump all over the newbie...

Personally, I don't care if you are banned or not. Until your "style" of posting is modified (by you, or the mods) I won't be donating. The fact that your rantings, style and language are tolerated by the management of this board indicates that they approve of it...

I don't approve of that type of behavior, and I won't subsidize it.

Stan, Well stated. I have been trying to drive home these very points. The fact that this type of behavior is permitted is a reflection of the management's approval. So far the few "warnings" that have been given recently have not been followed through with. As a result, DB has been given the message that nothing has changed and he can continue wiht his assaults.

I am not saying that others did not deserve to be banned for their actions. But in some cases the infractions that they were banned for were nowhere near as severe as DB's constant abuse. It does give the impression of "bias" or "favoritism" on behalf of the management towards DB.

MrBlack recently stated that everyone should be treated equally and fairly regardless of who they are or what they have contributed. I agree. But I guess that this applies to everyone except DB.

Although I have not expressed this before, I have no interest in continuing to support this board if the problem does not get remidied. I will give the management the benefit of doubt given Vadim's recent rules posting. Although there were some issues with them, the basic "spirit" of them was understood by all. What is disturbing is that the "spirit" has been repeatedly broken and nothing has been done about it.

mrblack51
02-23-2004, 09:55 AM
Huh? :confused: This thread has mainly been about DB's abusive behavior and the tacit approval of that behavior by the mods. The ONLY person that seems exempt from the rules is DB...

im not saying those quotes are exact, but they are representative of the attitudes which i have observed. exact quotes would be things like


i haven't donated because of DB. And I know of two others that haven't donated because of DB. I'm sure there are others...

David, you ARE costing this board money, and you will CONTINUE to cost this board money

Vadim
02-23-2004, 10:24 AM
Me and all of the mods will be working out a rule set this week. Stay put.. We also will work out the way this forum is organized. My final part of the server will be coming in tommorow and the configuration has almost been finished, so I expect to put the new server in later this week. Everything will be cool!

StanSimmons
02-23-2004, 01:57 PM
I am truly confused. How did you get:

i find it despicable that people on this board are suggesting that by clicking on ads or donating, that they are either above the rules, or exempt from them...
from:

I haven't donated because of DB. And I know of two others that haven't donated because of DB. I'm sure there are others...

David, you ARE costing this board money, and you will CONTINUE to cost this board money as long as you are unreasonably abusive.

mrblack51
02-23-2004, 02:03 PM
Stan, Well stated. I have been trying to drive home these very points. The fact that this type of behavior is permitted is a reflection of the management's approval. So far the few "warnings" that have been given recently have not been followed through with. As a result, DB has been given the message that nothing has changed and he can continue wiht his assaults.

I am not saying that others did not deserve to be banned for their actions. But in some cases the infractions that they were banned for were nowhere near as severe as DB's constant abuse. It does give the impression of "bias" or "favoritism" on behalf of the management towards DB.

MrBlack recently stated that everyone should be treated equally and fairly regardless of who they are or what they have contributed. I agree. But I guess that this applies to everyone except DB.

Although I have not expressed this before, I have no interest in continuing to support this board if the problem does not get remidied. I will give the management the benefit of doubt given Vadim's recent rules posting. Although there were some issues with them, the basic "spirit" of them was understood by all. What is disturbing is that the "spirit" has been repeatedly broken and nothing has been done about it.

my statement was meant to convey that merit is based on actual contribution, not arbitrary monitary contribution. stan, i the first sentence wasnt reffering to you, but others, such as captain_video, have claimed both publically and privately that they donated, so why were they banned for breaking the rules. however, i do contend that your statment supports an aspect which i did not convey - just because you donate, doesnt mean you get to dictate the terms of the board. i say donate or dont, but dont try to use donations as leverage to get your way. take ddb for what it is or dont.

malfunct
02-23-2004, 02:27 PM
I must say, for all of those complaining about DB, that we probably lose as many users to the fact that information is next to impossible to find because there are too many useless posts with repitition of questions that have been answered numerous times. I certainly don't condone rudeness but I think if vadim and the rest of the moderation crew wanted to attack a problem that would have the most effect on making this board useful it would be to organize the forum and find an easy way to strip the newbie reptition questions out of the truely useful information.

The newbies deserve to ask questions, but when it polutes the useful information, it makes it less likely that anyone can find what they want. I think many of the newbie questions that DB (and at times I) finds most annoying would never be asked if the information were easy to find.

It is still my opinion that a hacking site like this needs to have 2 sections, one of them being a forum and the other being and article/comment type section. Any good information from the comments or the forum needs to be moved up to the articles so that it can be referenced and read by all.

Anyway, my point is just that I think DB is a small problem on this board compared to a much bigger problem of misorganization (which is being worked on, don't get me wrong) which DB in his own possibly misguided way is trying to fix.

Edit: BTW, the whole thing about your user rating changing with time is kind of just bunk. I don't feel in any way that just because I talk alot I deserve to have a label that seems to state a higher level of knowledge or authority than those around me. Maybe vadim can work out a way where user rating is assigned by moderators based on merit rather than soley on the number of posts a person makes. I'll be the first to volunteer to go back to a user rating of normal user because I truely feel thats what I am.

Lowcarb
02-23-2004, 04:47 PM
Malfunct,

Your comments about noobie posts are all valid yet I need to point out that noob posts aren't the only thing that clogs up a forum.

Point-in-case. Sleeper's thread on his automated scripts. He stated right at the start that it was for doing the monte on DirecTV w/ Tivo software. Yet there are scores of post there dealing with trying to make it work with 4.x software from stand alones. Lots more problems, patches, fixes and discussion that should have all been spawned in a new thread (imo) so that those trying to use the process, as it was intended, won't get confused, distracted and lost.

malfunct
02-23-2004, 05:00 PM
Malfunct,

Your comments about noobie posts are all valid yet I need to point out that noob posts aren't the only thing that clogs up a forum.

Point-in-case. Sleeper's thread on his automated scripts. He stated right at the start that it was for doing the monte on DirecTV w/ Tivo software. Yet there are scores of post there dealing with trying to make it work with 4.x software from stand alones. Lots more problems, patches, fixes and discussion that should have all been spawned in a new thread (imo) so that those trying to use the process, as it was intended, won't get confused, distracted and lost.

Yup, I fully agree with you there, we just need a better way to split that sort of info out. Search doesn't cut it. Whats worse is when you search on a commonly asked question you tend to get 100 posts asking the question and 3 or 4 answering it.

StanSimmons
02-24-2004, 01:03 AM
my statement was meant to convey that merit is based on actual contribution, not arbitrary monitary contribution. stan, i the first sentence wasnt reffering to you, but others, such as captain_video, have claimed both publically and privately that they donated, so why were they banned for breaking the rules. however, i do contend that your statment supports an aspect which i did not convey - just because you donate, doesnt mean you get to dictate the terms of the board. i say donate or dont, but dont try to use donations as leverage to get your way. take ddb for what it is or dont.
Now we are getting somewhere... The management can change the way things are handled or not, I have no control over that. You misunderstood what my point was. I was stating a fact -- that DB is costing the board donations (including mine.) I then went on to explain why DB is costing the board donations and I stated what my personal feelings were. I doubt that any donatation that I could make would be large enough to get me any "leverage". :cool:

Sleeper
02-24-2004, 12:00 PM
What part of "you can shove the damn money up your ass" are you having trouble understanding?

The foul and abusive part.


Dealdatabase has a policy of free speech, period.
And so does this country. However, we also have decency laws. Funny how you attempt to justify your foul language under the "free speach" banner. In fact, this very tactic has been tried many times in our courts and the decency standards have always won.

When are you going to get the message. Clean up your mouth.

StanSimmons
02-24-2004, 12:10 PM
What part of "you can shove the damn money up your ass" are you having trouble understanding?

Dealdatabase has a policy of free speech, period. Mr. Black has made it absolutely clear that the board policies and principles will not be corrupted to maximize revenue. If you don't like it, get the hell out and find another site where the owner will whore himself out for a couple bucks.

Or, take 10 seconds out of your day to add me to the ignore list. Hell, maybe that should be a paid feature for all of you whiners. :D
What part of "you are a rude, crude, arrogant lout" do you not understand?

MrBlack51 doesn't own the board, Vadim does. I won't put you on ignore, because you occasionally have something to say that is worth reading...

EDIT: Hmmm, the referenced post was deleted... I wonder by whom?

David Bought
02-24-2004, 12:22 PM
Funny how you attempt to justify your foul language under the "free speach" banner. In fact, this very tactic has been tried many times in our courts and the decency standards have always won.

Wrong, the words "damn" "hell" and "ass" are not illegal under any "decency standards". Quit talking out of your ass.

This board is rated "PG". Deal with it or get the hell out. There are plenty of other forums where you can make yourself feel better about your limited hacking ability by spoonfeeding id&#105;ots who can't think for themselves. If you can't handle naughty words, go play savior at TCF.

Oh, and start using a spell checker. Constantly butchering second-grade vocabulary words like "speach" and "graditude" undermines any credibility you might have ever had here. Although judging from the low quality of the software you release, the point is probably moot anyway. :D

Sleeper
02-24-2004, 12:32 PM
Constantly butchering second-grade vocabulary words like "speach" and "graditude" undermines any credibility you might have ever had here.

Actually, they were intentionally mispelled. I just wanted to see you "get off" on pointing them out. Got you!

Sleeper
02-24-2004, 12:36 PM
Wrong, the words "damn" "hell" and "ass" are not illegal under any "decency standards
Not alone.
"you can shove the damn money up your ass" is. I doubt that you will find many of your peers that will argue otherwise.

David Bought
02-24-2004, 12:38 PM
What part of "you are a rude, crude, arrogant lout" do you not understand?

What part of, NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE PERMITTED do you not understand?


I won't put you on ignore, because you occasionally have something to say that is worth reading...

That's your own damn problem.


Actually, they were intentionally mispelled. I just wanted to see you "get off" on pointing them out. Got you!

You're not clever, you're not funny, and your hacking skills are way below par. Why do you even bother trying?

JJBliss
02-24-2004, 12:48 PM
What part of, NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE PERMITTED do you not understand?

maybe your definition of "personal attacks" are different then mine, but I perceive that saying "you are a rude, crude, arrogant lout", is no worse then saying "you can shove the damn money up your ass" or "You're not clever, you're not funny, and your hacking skills are way below par."

If you truly believe that NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE PERMITTED, then you are often guilty yourself. If you believe that the truth is a viable defense for slander, then you have no complaint here either, as you are indeed rude crude and arrogant.

You have often attacked folks personally with comments like

Agreed, you are useless.

If the individual at the receiving end of this comment is indeed useless, then this "might" be acceptable under your current terms. Otherwise, it is no more or less of a personal attack then calling you "a rude, crude, arrogant lout".

Just clarifying things.

David Bought
02-24-2004, 01:03 PM
maybe your definition of "personal attacks" are different then mine, but I perceive that saying "you are a rude, crude, arrogant lout", is no worse then saying "you can shove the damn money up your ass"

Telling somebody that you do not want their money is not a personal attack, regardless of how firmly the statement was made. Rude? Maybe.


or "You're not clever, you're not funny, and your hacking skills are way below par."

If you truly believe that NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE PERMITTED, then you are often guilty yourself. If you believe that the truth is a viable defense for slander, then you have no complaint here either, as you are indeed rude crude and arrogant.

Fair enough, so we can agree now that any true statement may be expressed, even if it could be construed as a personal attack. Thank you for clarifying this policy.



You have often attacked folks personally with comments like "Agreed, you are useless"

Are we forgetting what I replied to? Let's take a look at the context:


Yeah, I haven't done anything productive.

Agreeing with a poster's observation of himself is hardly an attack on him.

JJBliss
02-24-2004, 01:13 PM
Rude? Maybe.
Yes, maybe.



Fair enough, so we can agree now that any true statement may be expressed, even if it could be construed as a personal attack. Thank you for clarifying this policy.

No policy was implied or indicated. Note the original post where the word "if" was used repeatedly, as to indicate a postulate. It very well may be a topic for future debate, but for now, no rule exists either way. This will undoubtedly change after this week.



Agreeing with a poster's observation of himself is hardly an attack on him.

Then now, folks can feel justified in agreeing with your observation of your own rudeness as documented in your own "Rude? Maybe."

My post was intended to articulate the discrepancy in your seemingly hypocritical call of "NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE PERMITTED", when you often can be construed as soliciting such personal attacks.

Let's see if you folks can all play in the same sandbox.

StanSimmons
02-24-2004, 01:56 PM
What part of, NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE PERMITTED do you not understand?

Statements of fact are not attacks. Threatening to stuff money up someones derriere is...

David Bought
02-24-2004, 02:32 PM
Statements of fact are not attacks. Threatening to stuff money up someones derriere is...

Wrong, that was an order not a threat.

mrblack51
02-24-2004, 06:14 PM
eh, ive heard enough on all sides. once again, this degraded into personal attacks from people on all sides. new rules should be here by the end of the week, until then - status quo.

-closed-