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THREAD CLOSED
06-04-2004, 10:51 AM
Dear sirs,

I don't know any of the details of the situation. I'm guessing that he finally just pissed everybody off. :D

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=163914#post163914

Regards,

alldeadhomiez
06-04-2004, 11:42 AM
Dear sirs,

I don't know any of the details of the situation. I'm guessing that he finally just pissed everybody off. :D

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=163914#post163914

Sleeper is on temporary hiatus for personal attacks, cussing out the mods, and legal threats against the staff.

HsatcardH
06-04-2004, 12:43 PM
Dear sirs,

I don't know any of the details of the situation. I'm guessing that he finally just pissed everybody off. :D

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=163914#post163914

Regards,

He worked hard and earned it, let's just hope he learns from his mistakes.

Tiros
06-04-2004, 02:43 PM
By hacking the HDTivo he ruffled a few feathers.

Results were posted in the original series 2 dev thread, and this enraged the mods and others who feel the "masses" are not "entilted" to hack thier units. Flames shot out like rockets. Liar, prove it etc. etc. THESE flames were allowed to persist. Then the proof of success was posted. By now the original posts were split, edited, renamed, sewered, then removed completely effectivly burying the accomplishment. He questioned bias, and as we know, don't dare question a mod here!

Someone posted his PM in open forum, and it contained personal information, and no mod removed it, in fact not only was it not removed but it was replied to! Anyone would be upset. He complained and got banned. The entire thread gone without a trace!

A few key people here don't want everyone to be able to hack thier Tivo, The Sleeper ISO has helped thousands and he also has spent a lot of time helping people with troubles. Well the Tivo "GODS" don't like this at all. After all, Sleeper is just a script kiddie who repackaged all thier hard work and is grabbing all the "glory". Now that he has proven his ability to go beyond a script, those who dismissed him now have to face the facts that others are cabable of doing the same thing they are.
This is an elitist, jealous, childish, and snobbish attitude.

Now mysteriously, there are these new "one post wonders", essentially new accounts created to release crumbs to the public and to bash the credibility of others.

To the "unwashed masses":
Don't worry, there are others here who can do the work AND are willing to share. The inormation will be public soon enough. Not all developers subscribe to the "entitlement" philosophy.


My feeling is that the only mistake Sleeper made was playing in somebody elses sandbox!

mrblack51
06-04-2004, 03:11 PM
well tiros, while you are entitled to your opinion, I can tell you that as the one who placed the actual ban, you couldn't be farther from the truth. well before sleeper posted, it was public knowledge that a prom replacement would allow access to the unit. most had not tried it for whatever reason, he did, and was successful - good for him. based on the circumstances, he was asked to substantiate his claims, in order to prevent a storm of newbie crap about a hack that didnt exist or was more that what was being claimed. when proof was posted, it was acknowledged as such.

as was stated before, as well as in that thread, sleepers actions crossed the line. he was no longer supporting the hacking community (as a pure prom mod would have been a good thing). instead, he chose to sell a service fully hacking units. if he wants to do that, good for him, but DDB isnt the place for it.

in the end, he got banned for just the reasons that were stated by ADH. he threatened the moderators and the board owner, he was selling a service via ddb which was directly against what DDB is all about (learning to hack your unit yourself), and he was making false or misleading claims in those PMs.

for the record, I personally dont have a problem with people hacking their units, and I am happy to see that there are viable solutions out there for hacking every generation of tivo currently out there. whether people agree or not, prom modding is a viable option, especially if there are community members willing to perform the service (which is allowed by DDB).

some are too afraid or concerned or whatever to attempt to have their $1k unit prom modded, or even mess with the sw. to them i say "enjoy your stock tivo". should tivo hacking be exclusive? not necessarily? should it require some effort? absolutely. its supposed to be fun, and if you dont want to put a little effort in, then DDB isnt the place for you - there are plenty of ebay sellers waiting for your bids. is sleepers tool bad? thats debatable, but I say no its not. bad people use it sometimes though

Will
06-04-2004, 03:22 PM
the only mistake Sleeper made was playing in somebody elses sandbox!

What are the annual costs of running a board like this, approximately? Say expenses (excluding administrative labor) plus 6% of the capital costs.

alldeadhomiez
06-04-2004, 03:35 PM
By hacking the HDTivo he ruffled a few feathers.

Results were posted in the original series 2 dev thread, and this enraged the mods and others who feel the "masses" are not "entilted" to hack thier units. Flames shot out like rockets. Liar, prove it etc. etc. THESE flames were allowed to persist. Then the proof of success was posted. By now the original posts were split, edited, renamed, sewered, then removed completely effectivly burying the accomplishment. He questioned bias, and as we know, don't dare question a mod here!

Someone posted his PM in open forum, and it contained personal information, and no mod removed it, in fact not only was it not removed but it was replied to! Anyone would be upset. He complained and got banned. The entire thread gone without a trace!

A few key people here don't want everyone to be able to hack thier Tivo, The Sleeper ISO has helped thousands and he also has spent a lot of time helping people with troubles. Well the Tivo "GODS" don't like this at all. After all, Sleeper is just a script kiddie who repackaged all thier hard work and is grabbing all the "glory". Now that he has proven his ability to go beyond a script, those who dismissed him now have to face the facts that others are cabable of doing the same thing they are.
This is an elitist, jealous, childish, and snobbish attitude.

Now mysteriously, there are these new "one post wonders", essentially new accounts created to release crumbs to the public and to bash the credibility of others.

To the "unwashed masses":
Don't worry, there are others here who can do the work AND are willing to share. The inormation will be public soon enough. Not all developers subscribe to the "entitlement" philosophy.


My feeling is that the only mistake Sleeper made was playing in somebody elses sandbox!

I could waste my afternoon rebutting your misguided claims, but I've come to the conclusion that you are nothing more than a forum troll, so I will not bother. Suffice to say that we have banned people for committing just one of the 3+ offenses that Sleeper was guilty of, so you should be thanking us for showing him mercy. Despite any philosophical or personal differences we may have with him, we do value him for his contributions and hard work.

YOU, on the other hand, would probably not receive the same favorable treatment. Nearly every single post you write is a critical, egomaniacal rant that makes unprovable accusations, belittles or attacks the audience, and contains zero (0) new hacks. The only thing I've ever seen you "contribute" to the hobby is a bad attitude and an oversized ego.

(Now who does that remind you of?)

Meklos
06-04-2004, 03:38 PM
MrBlack, I notice you didn't counter this claim:


Someone posted his PM in open forum, and it contained personal information, and no mod removed it, in fact not only was it not removed but it was replied to!


I followed that thread but didn't post in it, since I don't have an HDTivo yet. But I did notice that the PM was posted and replied to, and that mods continued to post on the thread - so they had to know the PM was posted - and yet did nothing.

I don't have a stake in this on one side or the other, but I don't like the idea of mods not having to follow the rules they place upon the community, or being able to selectively enforce the rules depending on whether they like or dislike the "victim".



[edit] Why hasn't this been moved to the Sewer, after now being visited by one person that I know is a mod (MrB) and one that I think is (adh)? The other "x has been banned" threads live there...

JJBliss
06-04-2004, 03:45 PM
... but I don't like the idea of mods not having to follow the rules they place upon the community,

Tough. That's EXACTLY the way it is. Once day, you can be a moderator or administrator and do things based on your own morality, until then, you will play by ours, or leave.

Understood?

Sleeper's ban is temporary, and from my conversations with MrBlack51 it was PRIMARILY for his foul mouth legal threats. I have promised to discuss it with him once his ban has been lifted, and his time in the penalty box is over.

I am sure that things can be worked out.

Meklos
06-04-2004, 03:48 PM
Tough. That's EXACTLY the way it is. Once day, you can be a moderator or administrator and do things based on your own morality, until then, you will play by ours, or leave.

Understood?


But if I remember correctly, wasn't the offending PM posted by a regular user i.e. non-mod? I can understand, to a point, mods being above the rules - but mods letting non-mods get away with breaking the rules, just because the mod doesn't like the victim of the PM-publicizing?

JJBliss
06-04-2004, 03:49 PM
Moved to Sewer.


alldeadhomiez is indeed a moderator. I have moved the thread since Meklos is correct and it does belong there. However, please try not to second guess the moderators. The conspiracy theory is unattractive....

JJBliss
06-04-2004, 03:50 PM
But if I remember correctly, wasn't the offending PM posted by a regular user i.e. non-mod? I can understand, to a point, mods being above the rules - but mods letting non-mods get away with breaking the rules, just because the mod doesn't like the victim of the PM-publicizing?


Agreed. That is why the entire thread is now deleted. Vadim found the entire ordeal distasteful, and decided that it needed to go.

alldeadhomiez
06-04-2004, 03:58 PM
MrBlack, I notice you didn't counter this claim:



Someone posted his PM in open forum, and it contained personal information, and no mod removed it, in fact not only was it not removed but it was replied to!

I followed that thread but didn't post in it, since I don't have an HDTivo yet. But I did notice that the PM was posted and replied to, and that mods continued to post on the thread - so they had to know the PM was posted - and yet did nothing.

I don't have a stake in this on one side or the other, but I don't like the idea of mods not having to follow the rules they place upon the community, or being able to selectively enforce the rules depending on whether they like or dislike the "victim".

Tiros' statement was intentionally misleading. The only thing the post contained was a very generic company name (no address or contact name), which yields 200+ hits in Google. In addition, as JJBliss stated, the issue was corrected promptly when we received a complaint.

Tiros
06-04-2004, 04:38 PM
YOU, on the other hand, would probably not receive the same favorable treatment. Nearly every single post you write is a critical, egomaniacal rant that makes unprovable accusations, belittles or attacks the audience, and contains zero (0) new hacks. The only thing I've ever seen you "contribute" to the hobby is a bad attitude and an oversized ego.

(Now who does that remind you of?)

I can only recall having problems with one (1) forum member. Who has since been banned, (sort of) and he started it.

The post in this thread not withstanding, please provide a link to the posts that susbstantiates your (self mod permitted) personal attack on me.

Even though he doesn't like me, at least Mr. Black respected my right to an opinion without attacking me.

alldeadhomiez
06-04-2004, 05:28 PM
I can only recall having problems with one (1) forum member. Who has since been banned, (sort of) and he started it.

The post in this thread not withstanding, please provide a link to the posts that susbstantiates your (self mod permitted) personal attack on me.

Even though he doesn't like me, at least Mr. Black respected my right to an opinion without attacking me.

Too bad. If you don't like the way you're treated here, go troll your little Xbox boards instead. You won't be missed (except for your entertainment value).

JJBliss
06-04-2004, 07:12 PM
You all have a very short amount of time to get this thread, and yourselves under control.

I don't mind a discussion about a banning that has taken place since precedence can be cited numerous times (despite my displeasure in it).

Keep it civil, or it closes.

bkavs
06-04-2004, 07:31 PM
Where the sidewalk ends
And the road begins

There's the 'Sewer'

THREAD CLOSED
06-04-2004, 07:56 PM
Dear friends,

This thread has caused quite a stir! I haven't seen this much emotion since the HD-team ate Team Sleeper for lunch by being the very first group to hack the new HD Tivo. As we all know, a good sport will accept defeat with grace, and if you're a bad sport you'll ask your fanboys to post lies trying to rewrite history. Again let us congratulate the HD-team for their stunning, documented victory over the lowly shell script writers. :D

As for Sleeper I hope he has finally learned his lesson, and welcome him back with open arms, eager to see him no longer whoring for glory and profit. :D

Kindest regards,

Tiros
06-04-2004, 08:38 PM
Dear friends,

This thread has caused quite a stir! I haven't seen this much emotion since the HD-team ate Team Sleeper for lunch by being the very first group to hack the new HD Tivo. As we all know, a good sport will accept defeat with grace, and if you're a bad sport you'll ask your fanboys to post lies trying to rewrite history. Again let us congratulate the HD-team for their stunning, documented victory over the lowly shell script writers. :D

As for Sleeper I hope he has finally learned his lesson, and welcome him back with open arms, eager to see him no longer whoring for glory and profit. :D

Kindest regards,

Your comments only serve to prove my point.
BTW I posted the fact that the prom changes were identical 5 days BEFORE HD TeAms "breakthrough"
Thank You :)

jeboo
06-04-2004, 08:44 PM
Dear friends,

This thread has caused quite a stir! I haven't seen this much emotion since the HD-team ate Team Sleeper for lunch by being the very first group to hack the new HD Tivo. As we all know, a good sport will accept defeat with grace, and if you're a bad sport you'll ask your fanboys to post lies trying to rewrite history. Again let us congratulate the HD-team for their stunning, documented victory over the lowly shell script writers. :D

As for Sleeper I hope he has finally learned his lesson, and welcome him back with open arms, eager to see him no longer whoring for glory and profit. :D

Kindest regards,

Was the "hack" really that great a feat? The patch points in the prom hardly changed IIRC (based on pattern), and coulda been updated by someone with little or no mips experience ..Now if they've found a non-prom approach, that would be something to laud...:)

jeboo

alldeadhomiez
06-04-2004, 09:16 PM
Was the "hack" really that great a feat? The patch points in the prom hardly changed IIRC (based on pattern), and coulda been updated by someone with little or no mips experience ..Now if they've found a non-prom approach, that would be something to laud...:)

You're absolutely correct. Somehow this whole silly HD thing became a giant pissing contest. I suspect it had very little to do with the parties who were actually working on the units, and a lot to do with a few trolls' personal spats. Let's take a trip back to the year 2002 at TCF:


Here's a PROM patch for S2 for those of you with access to a burner. The patch will allow you to boot any kernel, whether it's signed correctly or not.

Somewhere within your TiVoProm.bin image, you should see the following instruction word:

0x1043000c

You want to change that 0x43 to a 0x42. Just that one byte change is all you need...it changes a conditional branch to an unconditional one. This essentially discards the results of the signature checking routine.

The above 4-byte word will probably appear as 0x43100c00 in the image file itself (endian issues). I've only hand-verified the patch on 1.15 and 1.18 images (1.18 came out with version 3.2 of the software. 1.15 was posted on this board but it wasn't completely there). In 1.18, the file offset of the byte to change is 0x2b40.


As it turns out, before the boot code even verifies the kernel signature, it verifies itself. It computes the sha1 hash of its own in-memory image (after a certain offset) and compares the result to one stored in its own image (before that certain offset). So in addition to patching over the signature checking results as I showed 2 posts back, you have to patch over this too.

This second patch also consists of a single byte change. Somewhere in your 1.15 or 1.18 image you should find the following instruction word:

0x14830004

You want to change that 0x83 byte to 0x84. This word will probably appear as 0x83140400 in the .bin image file itself.

From what I understand, these same directions pretty much work for the 2.14 PROM (although I believe there are two possibilities for one of the patches - look at the context). So, what can we gather from this?

Hacking a HR10-250 requires the ability to socket a PROM, a copy of WinHex/hexer, and a willingness to follow simple directions written in plain English.
If you think you're a "god" because you pulled it off without following a howto guide, don't fool yourself - you're not. Try "early adopter" on for size.
If you think there's a huge conspiracy to keep people from hacking the HD TiVos, you've obviously never even bothered trying, because it's trivial. Go back under your bridge.
If you think there's a need for a new "guide" to cover this procedure, you'd be better off learning some basic problem solving skills and spending a little time experimenting. It won't kill you to leave your comfort zone once in a while.
If you're afraid of screwing up your TiVo, then leave it alone and find another hobby.

Tiros
06-04-2004, 09:24 PM
jeboo,
You are correct! The prom hack is trivial. Anyone who can work a hex editor could pull it off.
I posted the fact that this was the case 5 days before the HD TeAm post. After thier post, Sleeper posted a "thats old news" post that was almost immediatly moved to the sewer for being "an unsubstantiated claim" and renamed to the now famous "Hi Def penis wagging thread".

I am not trying to take any credit here or say it's an earth shattering hack.
The real props go to the original binary patch creator for the HDVR2 which IIRC is: Musclenerd

mrblack51
06-04-2004, 09:43 PM
jeboo,
You are correct! The prom hack is trivial. Anyone who can work a hex editor could pull it off.
I posted the fact that this was the case 5 days before the HD TeAm post. After thier post, Sleeper posted a "thats old news" post that was almost immediatly moved to the sewer for being "an unsubstantiated claim" and renamed to the now famous "Hi Def penis wagging thread".

I am not trying to take any credit here or say it's an earth shattering hack.
The real props go to the original binary patch creator for the HDVR2 which IIRC is: Musclenerd

sleeper was the first in the thread to make a claim that hacking the unit was old news. also, sleeper has been very adamant about keeping hdtivo hacking info quiet (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=163922&postcount=3). no offence was intended by any party, but clearly offense was taken (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=164518&postcount=9). there is no need to get bogged down with - well, no better way to put it - penis wagging and posturing. the prom hack was known to work, and then it was shown that people compromised the box via that and possibly other means (we know HD TeAm didnt use the bash_env mod, what actual hack method was used is unknown).

i absolutely agree that credit should always be given to the deserving party. for the prom hack, its certainly MN

alldeadhomiez
06-04-2004, 09:52 PM
jeboo,
You are correct! The prom hack is trivial. Anyone who can work a hex editor could pull it off.
I posted the fact that this was the case 5 days before the HD TeAm post.

Sigh... do you ever tell the whole truth? Once again let's set the record straight:

In this post (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=163105&postcount=31), you commented on the similarities between the 3.1.5 PROM and the 1.18 PROM. What you didn't mention is that the 3.1.5 PROM from GZprom isn't even used - the SST37 on the HR10-250 shipped with the 2.14 PROM, which was not at all similar to the 1.18 PROM (the locations were different, although MuscleNerd's search-and-replace trick still worked). In fact, the 3.1.5 PROM has no LBA48 support, so it won't even boot the image that came with the HR10-250. But I didn't see you mention that little detail either.

Maybe you were staring at boot error 53 five days before the HD TeAm got a shell, but IMHO that's not much to brag about.


After thier post, Sleeper posted a "thats old news" post that was almost immediatly moved to the sewer for being "an unsubstantiated claim" and renamed to the now famous "Hi Def penis wagging thread".

Correct. "That's old news, I already did it" was penis wagging. Posting a tty log that shows info on the memory configuration, chipset, etc. is useful technical information to an audience in the development forums. Why didn't you and/or Sleeper post something technical in that thread? One can only speculate on your reasons, but two plausible motives are: you hadn't hacked the box yet, or you were keeping things under wraps so you could profit from it.

I don't know who HD TeAm is/was, but apparently they weren't trying to make a name for themselves (I assume they have other accounts here) or cash in from whatever work they did. I can't say the same for Sleeper, and that is why his post wound up in the Sewer and the HD TeAm post did not. Whether or not Sleeper misrepresented his accomplishments (I honestly have no idea), his post contained no useful information for a technical thread.

Tiros
06-04-2004, 10:10 PM
no offence was intended by any party, but clearly offense was taken (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=164518&postcount=9). there is no need to get bogged down with - well, no better way to put it - penis wagging and posturing. the prom hack was known to work, and then it was shown that people compromised the box via that and possibly other means (we know HD TeAm didnt use the bash_env mod, what actual hack method was used is unknown).

i absolutely agree that credit should always be given to the deserving party. for the prom hack, its certainly MN

Your right Mr. Black.
I know no offense was meant by your request for proof.
What was offensive was the DB er THREAD CLOSED posting in 12 point "YOU ARE A LIAR".

When I think about it, this was really the turning point for the whole nastiness.

That part of his post has now been edited, and my "Apology Accepeted" post was my smart ass way of telling HIM to STFU and was not directed toward you in any way.
It seemed like ADH was condoning this behaviour by editing my response to his "liar" accusation and leaving DB's inflammatory post alone as well as spinning us to the sewer. Why edit me when I was only defending against his attack? Sure, that pissed me off, but I kept quiet.

Lets get it straight, once again DB has triggered nastiness. He started this fight. We all got sucked in.
I can only hope that someone notices that this user is a CONSTANT menace to this board.

alldeadhomiez
06-04-2004, 10:26 PM
It seemed like ADH was condoning this behaviour by editing my response to his "liar" accusation and leaving DB's inflammatory post alone as well as spinning us to the sewer. Why edit me when I was only defending against his attack? Sure, that pissed me off, but I kept quiet.

Your flame was something along the lines of, "I guess the staff is giving you special treatment because you're not banned yet." It would have been left alone if you had not drawn a third party into your spat. Most of the other trolls here are smart enough not to challenge the mods when they get into fights; will it take a ban (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=153544&postcount=10) before you figure that out?

mrblack51
06-05-2004, 12:21 AM
Lets get it straight, once again DB has triggered nastiness. He started this fight. We all got sucked in.
I can only hope that someone notices that this user is a CONSTANT menace to this board.

why is this stuff about DB still coming up? he has been perm-banned for a while now (03-18-2004 by vadim himself). what menace is he causing now?

Meklos
06-05-2004, 02:30 AM
why is this stuff about DB still coming up? he has been perm-banned for a while now (03-18-2004 by vadim himself). what menace is he causing now?

Because most of us know that if you checked the IP logs or got fancy and did any sort of browser ID checking, you'd probably find that DB is aka:

THREAD CLOSED
THREAD CL0SED (username now deleted)
800-whateverthehellitwas

And I suspect he's also almontebarnes and other aliases. But that doesn't happen, and so he thumbs his nose at everyone while management appears to allow him to continue, seemingly condoning his behavior.


You asked why he's coming up, and I'm telling you from a user's perspective. Lots of us believe DB never left -- he just changed aliases.

Will
06-05-2004, 02:32 AM
why is this stuff about DB still coming up? he has been perm-banned for a while now (03-18-2004 by vadim himself).

They are referring to his having started this thread.

Meklos
06-05-2004, 02:53 AM
It's like one of those older wrestling shows...

Mr. Fantabulous challenges The Country Boy to a "Loser Leaves" match. Mr. Fantabulous loses, and then a week later, The Masked Avenger is a new wrestler on the show.

Sounds like Mr. Fantabulous

Looks like Mr. Fantabulous (except for the mask)

Acts like Mr. Fantabulous

(Puts on Wrestling Promoter hat) But nooooooo, it COULDN'T BE Mr. Fantabulous. Cause he wrestled in that match which said if he lost he had to leave. So it COULDN'T be him. (wink wink nudge nudge)



Yeah. Right.

HsatcardH
06-05-2004, 03:40 AM
It's like one of those older wrestling shows...

Mr. Fantabulous challenges The Country Boy to a "Loser Leaves" match. Mr. Fantabulous loses, and then a week later, The Masked Avenger is a new wrestler on the show.

Sounds like Mr. Fantabulous

Looks like Mr. Fantabulous (except for the mask)

Acts like Mr. Fantabulous

(Puts on Wrestling Promoter hat) But nooooooo, it COULDN'T BE Mr. Fantabulous. Cause he wrestled in that match which said if he lost he had to leave. So it COULDN'T be him. (wink wink nudge nudge)



Yeah. Right.


Thanks for clearing that up, sounds like you got it all figured out.

I see it a little different though, I see a guy who wrote an install script for a bunch of useful tools, bravo, well done. Then he spams a user here selling his "services". The user posts his unsolicted PM, the self-proclaimed "developer" gets all pissy and starts throwing around threats. Get's himself banned (rightfully so) and his fanboys come out of the woodwork to defend him. I've gotta ask, did he offer you a steep discount to hack your HD-DTiVo and include all the real developers software on it?

Meklos
06-05-2004, 03:47 AM
Thanks for clearing that up, sounds like you got it all figured out.

I see it a little different though, I see a guy who wrote an install script for a bunch of useful tools, bravo, well done. Then he spams a user here selling his "services". The user posts his unsolicted PM, the self-proclaimed "developer" gets all pissy and starts throwing around threats. Get's himself banned (rightfully so) and his fanboys come out of the woodwork to defend him. I've gotta ask, did he offer you a steep discount to hack your HD-DTiVo and include all the real developers software on it?

LOL a guy with 3 posts trying to flame me for something he understands exactly 0 about.

Wow, did you miss the point entirely. I wasn't talking about Sleeper AT ALL in that post. I don't own an HDTivo.

HsatcardH
06-05-2004, 03:56 AM
LOL a guy with 3 posts trying to flame me for something he understands exactly 0 about.

Wow, did you miss the point entirely. I wasn't talking about Sleeper AT ALL in that post. I don't own an HDTivo.

Umm no, i didnt miss it, my first sentence in my last post addressed your "theories" about DB but that must have just flown right by. Not surprising i might add.

Meklos
06-05-2004, 04:14 AM
Umm no, i didnt miss it, my first sentence in my last post addressed your "theories" about DB but that must have just flown right by. Not surprising i might add.

And number 4 lives up to the prowess of the first 3, I see.


My "theories" about DB, as you call them, are shared by other people. There's plenty of circumstantial evidence to make people believe that DB never left, only changed aliases.




Let's get to your "theory" however...


I've gotta ask, did he offer you a steep discount to hack your HD-DTiVo and include all the real developers software on it?

As I said, I don't even own an HD-Tivo... so the answer to your worthless attempt-at-an-insult question is "no".

I posted to begin with in this thread because of a simple premise: If it's against the rules for a user to post a PM, then it should always be against the rules. Not just when it's convenient, or except when it helps to further someone's cause.

JJ agreed that the PM situation was not right, and thus Vadim's decision that the whole thread be deleted.

HsatcardH
06-05-2004, 04:23 AM
I posted to begin with in this thread because of a simple premise: If it's against the rules for a user to post a PM, then it should always be against the rules. Not just when it's convenient, or except when it helps to further someone's cause.

JJ agreed that the PM situation was not right, and thus Vadim's decision that the whole thread be deleted.

Last I checked there were no rules about posting PM's in public, I wouldnt do it but that's just me. To each his own. There IS a rule about spamming members. There IS a rule about abusing other member's especially mod's and lastly there is no rule, but I will strongly suggest that anyone impersonating a developer be banned :D

mrblack51
06-05-2004, 04:41 AM
Because most of us know that if you checked the IP logs or got fancy and did any sort of browser ID checking, you'd probably find that DB is aka:

THREAD CLOSED
THREAD CL0SED (username now deleted)
800-whateverthehellitwas

And I suspect he's also almontebarnes and other aliases. But that doesn't happen, and so he thumbs his nose at everyone while management appears to allow him to continue, seemingly condoning his behavior.


You asked why he's coming up, and I'm telling you from a user's perspective. Lots of us believe DB never left -- he just changed aliases.

actually, i have checked the ip logs a number of times, and none of those individuals share ips. there was also a "david bought_" who was banned for attempting to impersonate "david bought". the copycat was banned, just as the thread cl0sed was banned, just like any other account purposely created to impersonate another member on this board would be deleted.

suspicion is just that, nothing more. until you have actual proof, you have nothing but suspicion. your theories are nothing more than theories. if you have proof that they are one and the same, then action will be taken. but so far there is no proof.

Meklos
06-05-2004, 11:12 AM
suspicion is just that, nothing more. until you have actual proof, you have nothing but suspicion. your theories are nothing more than theories. if you have proof that they are one and the same, then action will be taken. but so far there is no proof.


And there is nothing that I or any other user will ever be able to provide that will serve as "proof". Proof would take something like tracking the browserID or discovering which httpd open proxies he's using to mask his IP, or any other number of things to which the average user does not have access to the necessary data.


So I guess we all just put a smile on our face and pretend DB's gone, and that all those other aliases aren't really the same person.

JJBliss
06-05-2004, 11:23 AM
What would stop someone from saying, "I think Meklos and Tiros are the same person"? "I KNOW for a fact they are, since they both use the word Tivo in some of their posts, and they post a lot in each others threads".

It sounds stupid and unsubstantiated, doesn't it. No one can have any idea, but yet the baseless accussations continue. In my opinion it's scary.

In this world, you are only the sum total of what you TYPE, what your READ, and who you SAY you are. Meklos claims that he doesn't even have an HDTivo. What if I were to say "Yes you do!" "I challenge you to prove that you don't". :rolleyes:

Since we are supposed to beleive that YOU are who YOU SAY you are and HAVE what you SAY you have, why isn't that courtesy extended to the others?

It just makes you look foolish. It's amazing what a mob will come up with when they start to panic.

Try to keep the guess work out of dealdatabase, unless you have ome proof that you'd like to discuss with one of the administrators or the moderators in private.


Tiros, think about what you type, and consider if it's going to violate MY sensibilities. I've been VERY reasonable with all of you and have supported the notion of free speech despite many attempts (by folks like you, might I add) to squelch that. Don't keep pushing my buttons with conspiracy theories and subversive commentary on our collective board management.

Play nice.

JJBliss

Tiros
06-05-2004, 11:37 AM
Dear sirs,

I don't know any of the details of the situation. I'm guessing that he finally just pissed everybody off. :D

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=163914#post163914

Regards,

I guess this is just a coincidence:
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137308&postcount=1
Who really likes to use the term "fanboys"
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136703&postcount=24
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=127281&postcount=31
And also thinks everyone should share findings with thier fanboys
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136703&postcount=24

OK, the evidence is circumstantial.
If you slept all night and woke up in the morning and there was snow on the ground, did it snow last night? At some point circumstantial evidence becomes overwhelming.

Anyone who reads and compares the UNIQUE posting style KNOWS who it is. He is even so flagrant to mimik the style of his previous alias. This user is basically flying around here throwing it in our faces that he is untouchable. We know the mods are not stupid, of course people think of conspiracy or that he has some kind of protection.
When a "new member" shows up with 4 or 5 posts ALL of which are attacks on existing members what can you think ?

Who started THIS thread?
Who turned the original development thread ugly?
Who defends and protects this user?
What constitutes proof?

EDIT:
Can anyone post a link to the board rules?
I thought that the sewer was available for ANY type of discussion/speculation.

alldeadhomiez
06-05-2004, 12:12 PM
I guess this is just a coincidence:
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137308&postcount=1

Are you now trying to imply that THREAD CLOSED is the same person as Sleeper? Interesting theory...


When a "new member" shows up with 4 or 5 posts ALL of which are attacks on existing members what can you think ?

I think there are a lot of rude people out there. To a large extent we will (grudgingly) tolerate individuals with poor social skills, in the interest of free speech. IF that policy were to ever change, I guarantee that you would be considerably less happy than you are today.


Can anyone post a link to the board rules?
I thought that the sewer was available for ANY type of discussion/speculation.

" Sewer (3 Viewing)
Worthless posts end up here. Think of it as a walk of shame."

Sounds about right.

Tiros
06-05-2004, 01:01 PM
Are you now trying to imply that THREAD CLOSED is the same person as Sleeper? Interesting theory...

No that's not what I meant. I guess I gave you too much credit.

Do what you want it's your board.

You are sending this message:
Ignore the rules and if you get banned, just get a new IP and sign up again.

alldeadhomiez
06-05-2004, 01:36 PM
No that's not what I meant. I guess I gave you too much credit.

Either that or your argument doesn't make any sense.

Since I'm a nice guy (try it sometime) I'll paste another link here to help you prove your "theory":

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154347&postcount=1

So basically what you're saying is that Sleeper, SI 800-... and THREAD CLOSED are all the same person, because they posted nearly identical messages. If that's the case, you'd better reign him in, because if we can prove you're right we will ban all three accounts in spite of his hacking prowess.


You are sending this message:
Ignore the rules and if you get banned, just get a new IP and sign up again.

You're right; we need a new message. I've got a special one just for you - here goes: Publicly accuse a user of ban circumvention without proof just one more time, and I'll ban you.

Try me.

malfunct
06-05-2004, 02:52 PM
You're right; we need a new message. I've got a special one just for you - here goes: Publicly accuse a user of ban circumvention without proof just one more time, and I'll ban you.

Try me.

In defense of the mod's (not that they need it, they do well on thier own) there have been at least 3 cases in the short time I've been here where its been publically known that a mod has banned someone for ban circumvention. I think they have the situation handled, and if there was any way to prove any of your accusations I am fully certain the offender would be banned.

EDIT: BTW, it would be nice if your title could get reset back to "newbie" because it bothers me to think people might listen to me just because I made a lot of posts.

Will
06-05-2004, 04:30 PM
Publicly accuse a user of ban circumvention without proof just one more time, and I'll ban you.

Try me.

I believe "THREAD CLOSED" is "David Bought." I publicly state that I believe "THREAD CLOSED" is circumventing his ban. I believe the evidence so overwhelming that the burden should be on "THREAD CLOSED" or his defenders to make a case otherwise.

Not that it makes any difference, but on my way to being booted out the door I'll say that I was never really bothered by David Bought (though I enjoyed kidding him) and I have no problem with THREAD CLOSED either. In fact, I've never had any problem with anyone here, up until the recent distasteful, repeated displays of ego by a couple of the moderators who seem to feel that vadim has turned the place over to them lock, stock and barrel.

I have very much enjoyed my years here. Thanks, vadim, and many thanks to jdiner, Riley, juppers, Sleeper and all the other content providers who have enhanced my enjoyment of my Tivos.

HsatcardH
06-05-2004, 07:02 PM
I believe "THREAD CLOSED" is "David Bought." I publicly state that I believe "THREAD CLOSED" is circumventing his ban. I believe the evidence so overwhelming that the burden should be on "THREAD CLOSED" or his defenders to make a case otherwise.

That's fine, that's your opinion and your entitled to it but to tell a moderator they arent doing their job because of YOUR opinion is ridiculous. They have no proof (apparently) to tie the identities together. So they have elected not to ban him. That's THEIR choice, if you dont like a post or a particular user, dont read it. If you disagree with the way they run the place....Leave, its really quite simple. I dont always agree with the mods but i also don't argue and question them because i disagree with them, they enforce the rules to the best of their abilities.

JJBliss
06-05-2004, 10:30 PM
I believe "THREAD CLOSED" is "David Bought." I publicly state that I believe "THREAD CLOSED" is circumventing his ban. I believe the evidence so overwhelming that the burden should be on "THREAD CLOSED" or his defenders to make a case otherwise.


I believe "Will" is "David Bought" as well. And that he is using the "Will" account to circumvent his ban. If you can't prove that you're NOT "David Bought", you will be banned. Make sense? (of course not, because it's a ridiculous accusation, and an even more ridiculous request for the proof of a negative), so I take it back. You won't be banned for being David Bought.



Not that it makes any difference, but on my way to being booted out the door I'll say that I was never really bothered by David Bought (though I enjoyed kidding him) and I have no problem with THREAD CLOSED either. In fact, I've never had any problem with anyone here, up until the recent distasteful, repeated displays of ego by a couple of the moderators who seem to feel that vadim has turned the place over to them lock, stock and barrel.


Ok. Never mind. What I said before. You're banned. You can come back though, when you've had time to re-read the rules I've laid out in the past. that was too much for me to take.



I have very much enjoyed my years here. Thanks, vadim, and many thanks to jdiner, Riley, juppers, Sleeper and all the other content providers who have enhanced my enjoyment of my Tivos.

Bye

vu2vu
06-06-2004, 03:34 AM
I hate to see anyone get banned. Good to see the moderators using the penalty box instead.

Banning someone never really solves the problem, sure some people will understand that they are unwanted. While others will harbor a grudge with the forum and return with a new account just to stir up even more trouble.

I urge people to use the ignore feature instead of calling for someone to be banned. It is much easier to ignore someone if they have 1 nick instead of someone that changes their nick every other week.

Just my 2 cents.

newbie
06-07-2004, 10:05 AM
I personally dont have a problem with people hacking their units, and I am happy to see that there are viable solutions out there for hacking every generation of tivo currently out there. whether people agree or not, prom modding is a viable option, especially if there are community members willing to perform the service (which is allowed by DDB).




If I hack my tivo with software the only downside is having take apart my tivo and return the original drive if I screw up. Almost anyone who's ever taken apart a computer can give it a shot. OK maybe I'll lose some recordings.

Very few of us have the skills or equipment to do the kind of surface mount soldering needed to replace the factory prom with a socket.

I don't put charging to replace a prom with a socket in the same category as people selling hacked tivos on E-Bay. Sleeper was one of the posters who didn't like people using his scripts on tivos that were sold on E-Bay.

I don't have a HD Tivo but when I get one I'll either have to keep it stock or pay someone to socket the prom.

malfunct
06-07-2004, 10:18 AM
If I hack my tivo with software the only downside is having take apart my tivo and return the original drive if I screw up. Almost anyone who's ever taken apart a computer can give it a shot. OK maybe I'll lose some recordings.

Very few of us have the skills or equipment to do the kind of surface mount soldering needed to replace the factor prom with a socket.

I don't put charging to replace a prom with a socket in the same category as people selling hacking tivos on E-Bay. Sleeper was one of the posters who didn't like people using his scripts on tivos that were sold on E-Bay.

I don't have a HD Tivo but when I get one I'll either have to keep it stock or pay someone to socket the prom.

Noone had a problem with Sleeper offering to mod people's prom. The problem they had was him trying to keep the hacks "secret" and only offering to fully hack (including software hacks) peoples machines.

Had he offered the prom modding service only and possibly gave some method for people to hack thier own the community would have found it far less distasteful. I think sleeper was even accused of spamming people in private messages which is another distasteful thing. Of course the real problem (as I have read it) was that he smarted off to the mod's when they informed him of how distasteful his offers were.

Anyways, I agree that someone offering prom socketing and other hardware changes/fixes would be a good thing because, as you said, most people don't have the tools or skills to mess with hardware at that level.

HsatcardH
06-07-2004, 05:14 PM
If I hack my tivo with software the only downside is having take apart my tivo and return the original drive if I screw up. Almost anyone who's ever taken apart a computer can give it a shot. OK maybe I'll lose some recordings.

Very few of us have the skills or equipment to do the kind of surface mount soldering needed to replace the factory prom with a socket.

I don't put charging to replace a prom with a socket in the same category as people selling hacked tivos on E-Bay. Sleeper was one of the posters who didn't like people using his scripts on tivos that were sold on E-Bay.

I don't have a HD Tivo but when I get one I'll either have to keep it stock or pay someone to socket the prom.

Here it is in a nutshell, if you look here (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28921) and pay attention to the first 6 lines of Sleeper's post. You will see this

TERMS OF USE
A.) REDISTRIBUTION PROHIBITED IN ANY FORM
B.) SALE OF ANY DRIVE OR UNIT MODIFIED WITH THIS SOFTWARE PROHIBITED
C.) USE OF THIS SOFTWARE TO OBTAIN THEFT OF SERVICE PROHIBITED
D.) USE OF THIS SOFTWARE TO OBTAIN AND DISTRIBUTE COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL PROHIBITED

By clicking on one of the following links you inherently agree to the TERMS OF USE.

This all applies to his tivoscripts iso. These terms are good things, they're meant to stop people from buying units cheap, hacking them, then profiting off the sales from ebay members (or anyone else for tht matter). But Sleeper somehow felt these rules should apply to everone else but not him. So he decided it was ok for him to sell his services for socketing a prom and installing other peoples hacks. Then trying to defend his actions by saying he changed a few things here and there. pffft, thats being the ultimate hypocrite imnsho.

Lowcarb
06-07-2004, 05:56 PM
B.) SALE OF ANY DRIVE OR UNIT MODIFIED WITH THIS SOFTWARE PROHIBITED

What if Microsoft had put that restriction on format.com?

You can buy Dutch Boy paint.
You can resell Dutch Boy paint.
You can paint your house with Dutch Boy paint and sell the house.
BUT, if you paint your house with any paint using my special spray gun then you can not sell your house unless you sandblast all the paint off of it or repaint it using your own brush.

Why did I say that? I don't know. I don't think that anyone should be reselling units hacked with Sleeper's script but something looking at restriction B in print struck me as being unenforcable.

cali
06-07-2004, 05:57 PM
who has got the 10" penis? You guys have nothign better to do sometimes.

Hi DB! I'm watching you :D

JJBliss
06-07-2004, 06:11 PM
who has got the 10" penis? You guys have nothign better to do sometimes.

Hi DB! I'm watching you :D

Don't do it again

malfunct
06-07-2004, 10:25 PM
B.) SALE OF ANY DRIVE OR UNIT MODIFIED WITH THIS SOFTWARE PROHIBITED

What if Microsoft had put that restriction on format.com?

I think that Microsoft's EULA basically does say that, though its nearly fully unenforced and probably unenforcable.

Meklos
06-08-2004, 12:30 AM
OK, by now it should be obvious that there are several people who believe DB is still around in various forms.

So let's examine at least three options on what is happening:

1) We're all the same person, posting under different pseudonyms, to further the "conspiracy theory" that DB never left. It would take a very smart person to keep all those posting styles and stories straight, so if this one is the case, I guess I'm one very talented individual - or rather, we are.

2) All the people who post that they believe DB hasn't left are all working together to somehow manipulate other users opinions to make them also believe DB never left. We are all sharing our stories, keeping it to a true conspiracy

3) or maybe he really never left.



Now, let's assume for a minute that he did leave. I guess there is someone out there with a really twisted sense of humor, who likes to shadow and stalk DB. They created an account with the phrase that he used to close his insulting threads, aptly named THREAD CLOSED. It's no accident it's all in caps either, just as he did it. This person has studied the posting style of DB, knew that he got booted for being insulting to so many people, and so is extremely (overly?) polite [Dear sir -- regards,] to exaggerate the situation.

Another person, or maybe the same one, also created the SI800blahblah account to further DB's penchant for "quit stealing service, *******". This person's sole reason to exist is to further this ideal.

There must be a lot of people, or one really talented one, who are just SO enamored with DB and his persona that they have chosen to take lots of time out of their schedules to make some of us think that DB never left. They want to continue the legacy, so they keep posting snippets of his online personality. Also, they are somewhat knowledgeable and skilled, as demonstrated by some of the posts by THREAD CLOSED. Some of the technical prowess shown by TC exhibits a high level of Tivo hacking skill and knowledge.



Yes, it's all one giant conspiracy theory. Someone keeps the DB legacy alive, another group of people conspire to make the world think DB never left.


But I see now, he is obviously gone. All of us who believed that he never left were obviously wrong.

mrblack51
06-08-2004, 01:17 AM
OK, by now it should be obvious that there are several people who believe DB is still around in various forms.

So let's examine at least three options on what is happening:

1) We're all the same person, posting under different pseudonyms, to further the "conspiracy theory" that DB never left. It would take a very smart person to keep all those posting styles and stories straight, so if this one is the case, I guess I'm one very talented individual - or rather, we are.

2) All the people who post that they believe DB hasn't left are all working together to somehow manipulate other users opinions to make them also believe DB never left. We are all sharing our stories, keeping it to a true conspiracy

3) or maybe he really never left.


while you carefully chose your language to make sure that #2 sounds outrageous, its really not all that outrageous if you think about it. Posting styles are easy to imitate, avitars are trivial to copy. It would be easy for someone to swoop in at the point of DB's demise (or lackthereof as you choose to believe) and start using that style to rile people up.


Now, let's assume for a minute that he did leave. I guess there is someone out there with a really twisted sense of humor, who likes to shadow and stalk DB. They created an account with the phrase that he used to close his insulting threads, aptly named THREAD CLOSED. It's no accident it's all in caps either, just as he did it. This person has studied the posting style of DB, knew that he got booted for being insulting to so many people, and so is extremely (overly?) polite [Dear sir -- regards,] to exaggerate the situation.

Another person, or maybe the same one, also created the SI800blahblah account to further DB's penchant for "quit stealing service, *******". This person's sole reason to exist is to further this ideal.

There must be a lot of people, or one really talented one, who are just SO enamored with DB and his persona that they have chosen to take lots of time out of their schedules to make some of us think that DB never left. They want to continue the legacy, so they keep posting snippets of his online personality. Also, they are somewhat knowledgeable and skilled, as demonstrated by some of the posts by THREAD CLOSED. Some of the technical prowess shown by TC exhibits a high level of Tivo hacking skill and knowledge.

Yes, it's all one giant conspiracy theory. Someone keeps the DB legacy alive, another group of people conspire to make the world think DB never left.

But I see now, he is obviously gone. All of us who believed that he never left were obviously wrong.

conspiracy theory? not necessarily, except maybe by those who thing that all those aliases you mentioned are DB. there are a great many people on the internet who have sick senses of humor, enjoying messing with people on boards just like this. they are reffered to as trolls if you werent aware. if you are unwilling to believe that there might be more than one person in this world beyond DB who was willing to devote their time to making posts which clearly irk posters such as yourself, you are kidding yourself to say the least.

in any event, warnings have been posted all over this thread about not making claims stating that "user X and user Y" are the same person, especially without any actual proof. Despite those warnings, you decided to make your post anyway. Well, surely you knew the consequences, so I am giving you what you asked for by the fact that you made such a post - a few days in the penalty box. enjoy

sanderton
06-08-2004, 07:13 AM
This is getting a bit out of hand isn't it?

THREAD CLOSED is clearly either DB or someone who wants everyone to think he is DB.

I don't know for sure which, but I have my opinion - which I guess I better keep to myself for fear of the penalty box.

JJBliss
06-08-2004, 08:31 AM
This is getting a bit out of hand isn't it?

THREAD CLOSED is clearly either DB or someone who wants everyone to think he is DB.

I don't know for sure which, but I have my opinion - which I guess I better keep to myself for fear of the penalty box.

Now after you've seen what MRBlack51 did to Meklos, why would you make the EXACT SAME post?

I've thought about closing this thread, but it seems like a pretty good place to allow people to come who would like to ban themselves.

Take heed, however, I'm growing weary of the temporary bans, and think that some folks need not play here at all.

Now, you too have been warned. Very soon, there will be no more individual warnings metered out.

The Only Druid
06-08-2004, 09:25 AM
Okay, I'm a newbie at all this (I have only a few posts), no denying that.

I'm justing posting a social point here: this debate seems to be a massive waste of a lot of people's effort, people who have better stuff to do I'd think.

Sleeper is temporarily banned, its ONLY TEMPORARY
DB is banned; if he's circumventing that (which I'm NOT accusing him of), then what does it matter unless he starts being abusive enough to merit banning again?
The mods are gods on their boards; this isn't new here, or anywhere else on the Web. Suck it up and deal with it guys, this is their space.


Guys, lets just ease up off the pipe here, and go back to doing something we enjoy, instead of this [already in the sewer] pissing contest?

newbie
06-08-2004, 12:27 PM
I am confused. Does it matter if DB is posting under multiple identities or if multiple posters are mimicing his posting style? The results are about the same.

The fact is his type of no-nonsense posting seems to be generally accepted, with the exception of a brief period of personal attacks.

alldeadhomiez
06-08-2004, 01:37 PM
I am confused. Does it matter if DB is posting under multiple identities or if multiple posters are mimicing his posting style? The results are about the same.

Yes, it matters. If we find evidence that DB is evading his ban, we will ban the new accounts.

If we see anybody impersonating moderators, using abusive language, harassing new users, or breaking other rules, they too will be dealt with. If you'd like to point out a violation, please use the "report post" button.

I'm not sure why so many of you are allowing yourselves to get worked up about "THREAD CLOSED," but if they're trying to push your buttons it looks like they succeeded. Stop feeding the trolls.

AlphaWolf
06-08-2004, 02:03 PM
Hmm...I don't know about anybody else, but I haven't had any issue with sleeper or david bought. In fact there is only one name that keeps showing up in this thread which I have ever had an issue with (well, one other person too, but he doesn't show up these days.)

vu2vu
06-08-2004, 02:04 PM
THREAD CLOSED is a polite individual that is obeying the rules of this message board. I agree with ADH, prepetuating this cycle of flames regarding TC is going to cause nothing but trouble for everyone involved. It's best if we leave it alone.

Why is TC being brought up on this thread anyways? It is about Sleeper being temporarily banned. Sure TC did open the thread, but if he didn't someone else would have.



I'm not sure why so many of you are allowing yourselves to get worked up about "THREAD CLOSED," but if they're trying to push your buttons it looks like they succeeded. Stop feeding the trolls.

HsatcardH
06-08-2004, 03:53 PM
I am confused. Does it matter if DB is posting under multiple identities or if multiple posters are mimicing his posting style? The results are about the same.

Yes it does, DB is banned therefore, he would be evading his ban which is against the rules. Mimicking his posting style doesnt break any rules.



The fact is his type of no-nonsense posting seems to be generally accepted, with the exception of a brief period of personal attacks.

Many people love the no-nonsense approach, others like the nonsensical, which do you prefer? :D

cali
06-08-2004, 06:48 PM
Now after you've seen what MRBlack51 did to Meklos, why would you make the EXACT SAME post?

I've thought about closing this thread, but it seems like a pretty good place to allow people to come who would like to ban themselves.

Take heed, however, I'm growing weary of the temporary bans, and think that some folks need not play here at all.

Now, you too have been warned. Very soon, there will be no more individual warnings metered out.

cmon jj.....this is the sewer isnt it? What is the purpose of the sewer ?
Worthless posts end up here. Think of it as a walk of shame.

mrblack51
06-08-2004, 08:32 PM
cmon jj.....this is the sewer isnt it? What is the purpose of the sewer ?
Worthless posts end up here. Think of it as a walk of shame.

notice that the forum decription doesnt include "ignore the rules of this board and decisions of the management here".

cali
06-09-2004, 07:28 AM
notice that the forum decription doesnt include "ignore the rules of this board and decisions of the management here".

I'm a bit lost...what specific rule are you referring to?

alldeadhomiez
06-09-2004, 08:26 AM
I'm a bit lost...what specific rule are you referring to?


in any event, warnings have been posted all over this thread about not making claims stating that "user X and user Y" are the same person, especially without any actual proof.

Just drop it.. it's not worth it.

BubbleLamp
06-13-2004, 04:01 PM
Yes, it matters. If we find evidence that DB is evading his ban, we will ban the new accounts.

If we see anybody impersonating moderators, using abusive language, harassing new users, or breaking other rules, they too will be dealt with. If you'd like to point out a violation, please use the "report post" button.

I'm not sure why so many of you are allowing yourselves to get worked up about "THREAD CLOSED," but if they're trying to push your buttons it looks like they succeeded. Stop feeding the trolls.

Please provide a link to the current, official rules of the board. I can't remember ever seeing them posted, only the last set of suggestions being criticized.

JJBliss
06-13-2004, 08:22 PM
Please provide a link to the current, official rules of the board. I can't remember ever seeing them posted, only the last set of suggestions being criticized.

I don't believe that any have been officially published since the moderators and administrators met with Vadim, and dismissed the ones that you had put together.

It seems that some people still need to see something in print in order for them to heed it. I will speak with the management and see if we can assemble something to point to in situations such as this.

dswaIIow
06-14-2004, 11:12 AM
Please provide a link to the current, official rules of the board. I can't remember ever seeing them posted, only the last set of suggestions being criticized.

Lol get a load of this clown, he acts like such a baby all the time

anyway where is sleeper, he is not answereing my pm,maybe i need to find someone else to prom it :(

alldeadhomiez
06-14-2004, 11:57 AM
Please provide a link to the current, official rules of the board. I can't remember ever seeing them posted, only the last set of suggestions being criticized.

When you signed up, you agreed to these rules:


In order to proceed, you must agree with the following rules:

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Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.

Although the administrators and moderators of DealDatabase Forum - Deals, Freebies, and TiVo & DirecTivo Hacking will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of DealDatabase Forum - Deals, Freebies, and TiVo & DirecTivo Hacking, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of DealDatabase Forum - Deals, Freebies, and TiVo & DirecTivo Hacking reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

BubbleLamp
06-14-2004, 11:04 PM
When you signed up, you agreed to these rules:
You weren't an admin at the time I wrote the doc (at Vadim's request) that JJ refers to, so please remain out of this discussion. And to set the record straight, I was told (by Vadim) that all of the items on the doc I wrote were approved by the mods except for the part about mods treating everyone the same.

mrblack51
06-14-2004, 11:28 PM
You weren't an admin at the time I wrote the doc (at Vadim's request) that JJ refers to, so please remain out of this discussion. And to set the record straight, I was told (by Vadim) that all of the items on the doc I wrote were approved by the mods except for the part about mods treating everyone the same.

whats that saying about opinions? thats right, everyone has one. now you have proved it. good for you kind sir. irregardless of that opinion, ADH is a mod now, and you will treat him with the respect he deserves. you proposed some rules, they were rejected as they were presented. as such, they have no bearing on how this board is run. in addition, your opinion has about as much worth as those proposed rules or less when it comes to how this board is run.

PapaSmurf
06-15-2004, 09:22 AM
I am going to add my opinion. I do not, however, expect this opinion to carry much weight on this board.

I have at times moderated more boards (commercial and private) than I could count, as well as administrate two of them. Mod's are *usually* nothing more than glorified members who have been delegated by the administrator(s) to help enforce the rules. They are sometimes members that have proved themselves to be helpful and therefore an asset to the given community. They edit, move, delete, etc posts/topics as deemed necessary by the rules and regulations.

I have never before seen members so harshly criticized for their opinions. An opinion is a god-given right, and in the case of, at the very least, America, a right given to us by our founders.

Every mod should have a common set of rules to enforce. If one member is banned for one offense, then another member committing the same offense should also be banned.

Personal grudges and favoritism is simply distasteful.

This whole bit about DB, TC, who-ever-else, is a complete waste of time. Whether or not TC is DB is an irrelevant opinion until it is proven to be more. While members should be able to freely express that opinion, it should remain just that, an opinion, rather than an unfounded accusation.

This topic has become a pointless waste of time for all parties involved. If I were a mod/admin of this board, I would have probably closed this thread a long time ago.

Keep in mind that I am not attacking the mods (after re-reading, I realized it may sound like that). If I were them, I would also be extremely irritated at this thread and all individuals that think it is necessary to continually press the issue.

P.S. Publically attacking a mod's decision is also distasteful.

rc3105
06-15-2004, 02:11 PM
This topic has become a pointless waste of time for all parties involved. If I were a mod/admin of this board, I would have probably closed this thread a long time ago.

except that some people just will not drop some topics

leaving a thread like this open supports the concept of free speech & helps keep such topics from spilling all over the place


look at the mod population - hackers - may not be your ideal unbiased "civil servants" but it provides some content that makes DD worth visiting


same thing with Corvette clubs, there's the folks there to show off they can afford a certain toy (TCF) and the gearheads that actually know what's under the hood

Tiros
06-15-2004, 04:33 PM
same thing with Corvette clubs, there's the folks there to show off they can afford a certain toy (TCF) and the gearheads that actually know what's under the hood

I love Corvettes!
"Save the wave"

Meathead
06-16-2004, 10:27 PM
Wow! A lot going on here. I have but one question????

Is Sleeper banned forever???

I had a second question, but I will search for the answers myself as to why he was banned. I guess I didn't see any of his posts lately. I'll try the search button.

tivomaster
06-16-2004, 10:37 PM
Wow! A lot going on here. I have but one question????

Is Sleeper banned forever???

I had a second question, but I will search for the answers myself as to why he was banned. I guess I didn't see any of his posts lately. I'll try the search button.

I don't think the ban was permanent his accounts shows active
Sleeper
Diamond Member
not
Sleeper
Banned

fixn278
06-16-2004, 10:45 PM
Wow! A lot going on here. I have but one question????

Is Sleeper banned forever???

I had a second question, but I will search for the answers myself as to why he was banned. I guess I didn't see any of his posts lately. I'll try the search button.



Sleeper is on temporary hiatus for personal attacks, cussing out the mods, and legal threats against the staff.

Won't this thread ever die?!?!?

tytyty
06-16-2004, 11:37 PM
Wow! A lot going on here. I have but one question????

Is Sleeper banned forever???

I had a second question, but I will search for the answers myself as to why he was banned. I guess I didn't see any of his posts lately. I'll try the search button.
Dont bother the reality of the situation has been obscured.

mrblack51
06-17-2004, 12:32 AM
Dont bother the reality of the situation has been obscured.

obscured? how so?

tytyty
06-17-2004, 12:59 AM
obscured? how so?
Due to this (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=168369&postcount=12)

Sleeper
06-17-2004, 01:07 AM
Is Sleeper banned forever???

No. Sleeper has been very busy lately. Aside from that, Sleeper doesn't have time for the petty bs that goes on here.


I had a second question, but I will search for the answers myself as to why he was banned. I guess I didn't see any of his posts lately. I'll try the search button.

Here's the way Sleeper sees it. (No debate needed!)

Several posts were made that were direct flames against Sleeper. They contained absolutely no other content than the flame. Sleeper reported one of these posts to the mods. No action was taken. The original posters were not banned or warned.

Someone had inquired about hacking his HD Tivo and Sleeper PM'd him telling him that he was performing prom mods. The poster PM'd Sleeper back and requested more information. In the PM Sleeper told him that he would install some hacks and utilities on the unit as well as perform the prom mod.

This person decided to post both of Sleepers PM's in open forum. One of the PM's contained personal information.

A pile on Sleeper ensued in which two of the major contributors of the pile of dung were moderators of this board.

Sleeper was already pissed because these mods freely allowed flames against him. Sleeper was also pissed because of other antics that the mods pulled like moving his post to another thread and calling it the "Hi-def Penis Wagging thread" (Which, if you haven't noticed is a flame in itself)

Sleeper was also pissed because a mod acted on information that Sleeper sent to him in a PM. Further details about this will not be discussed.

Sleeper got even more pissed when the mods continued to post after the personal information was posted without editing it.

Sleeper then made a post in which he called the mods biased. He also included some vulgarities aimed at certian people.

Sleeper then edited all of his other posts in that thread, removed his original content and replaced it with vulgarities.

Sleeper PM'd the mods and Vadim and asked them to remove the personal information, citing that both Sleeper and DDB don't what to defend legal action.

Sleeper was banned.

Did Sleeper deserve to be banned? Yes

Should others have been reprimanded for there part in what took place? Yes

Where they? (Good Question)

There is a lot that I am not saying here. I applaud many of you (like Melkos) for speaking your mind and telling things the way that they really are. Many of your observations and statements in this thread are RIGHT ON!

I also want to thank the many of you who expressed similar sentiments in PM but were afraid to express them publicly for fear of the mods.

Meklos
06-17-2004, 10:15 AM
Due to this (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=168369&postcount=12)


It is odd how often that happens... posts or entire threads just disappearing. Wonder what's wrong with the vbb code?

mrblack51
06-17-2004, 10:23 AM
It is odd how often that happens... posts or entire threads just disappearing. Wonder what's wrong with the vbb code?

posts disappear for all kinds of reasons - wrong forum, off topic, non-dev posts in dev forums, and of course threads like that one which vadim decided it was better just to toast the whole thing rather than sort it out. Executive decisions are made all around us in all aspects of life, we just don't always hear about them. Does that indicate a conspiracy? No. Just means that the management is doing its job properly, keeping the forum's focused on tivo hacking, rather than BS like in this thread.

Meklos
06-17-2004, 10:35 AM
posts disappear for all kinds of reasons - wrong forum, off topic, non-dev posts in dev forums, and of course threads like that one which vadim decided it was better just to toast the whole thing rather than sort it out.


Or like Sleeper's response he posted last night, in this thread, a little after 12:00?

alldeadhomiez
06-17-2004, 11:06 AM
Or like Sleeper's response he posted last night, in this thread, a little after 12:00?

I deleted that post but had a change of heart.

There is no truth whatsoever to the majority of Sleeper's points; he has intentionally lied and distorted facts to paint himself as a victim.

As a matter of fact, Sleeper has been allowed to get away with causing an awful lot of trouble on this board, but in the interest of the hobby some of the mods (myself included) practically begged for him not to be perm-banned. In past cases, just one major offense such as threatening to sue Vadim or telling a mod to "GFY" has been grounds for a permanent ban. Sleeper has survived both, yet he comes back here and rails against the people who have supported him the most.

I have PMed him and asked him to get back to TiVo hacking instead of playing his silly political games.

Meklos
06-17-2004, 11:44 AM
[edit] Forget it. No point in posting anything, SSDD.

alldeadhomiez
06-17-2004, 11:58 AM
Perhaps lots of people should get that PM.

I'm sorry, but I find this is just yet another cheap public shot ("playing his silly political games"). Users don't get away with this, but mods do.

Ban me if you wish, but that's just pathetic.

Come on, tell us how you really feel.

All this animosity, just because we didn't ban some guy you've got a beef with. Incredible.

Meklos
06-17-2004, 12:06 PM
Come on, tell us how you really feel.

All this animosity, just because we didn't ban some guy you've got a beef with. Incredible.

It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the inconsistent actions of people in positions of power.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Or even better, how about "Suspend one account for a week for saying X, but when someone (several someones?) do the same thing, do nothing."

You tell Sleeper to get back to Tivo hacking and stop playing political games, which is fine for a PM, but then you come here and post to the world that you told him that? Pot, kettle.

What is the point of banning someone if you just let them come back as a different account? Are you banning the person or the account? If it's the account, then there is - by definition - no such thing as ban evasion. Bans are then merely an annoyance, a change in identity and a resetting of post count.

Let's go back to your initial statement. You say I am complaining because you say I have a beef with TC. I believe TC is DB in another set of clothes, but that's my only beef with that account. You and several other people have a beef with Sleeper over his choices to make Tivo hacking easier, and have gotten into very public flame wars with him over this. Is it no coincidence that it is the very same group of people who oppose his efforts to produce and maintain the TivoScripts ISO are also some of the same people who come here and rail against him here?

The story is much larger and more complicated than is being told here.

But then again, there's an old saying (in several different versions).

History is written by the victors, or by the people in power. History will not be impeded by truth or actual events.

alldeadhomiez
06-17-2004, 12:50 PM
It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the inconsistent actions of people in positions of power.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Or even better, how about "Suspend one account for a week for saying X, but when someone (several someones?) do the same thing, do nothing."

You tell Sleeper to get back to Tivo hacking and stop playing political games, which is fine for a PM, but then you come here and post to the world that you told him that? Pot, kettle.

What is the point of banning someone if you just let them come back as a different account? Are you banning the person or the account? If it's the account, then there is - by definition - no such thing as ban evasion. Bans are then merely an annoyance, a change in identity and a resetting of post count.

Let's go back to your initial statement. You say I am complaining because you say I have a beef with TC. I believe TC is DB in another set of clothes, but that's my only beef with that account. You and several other people have a beef with Sleeper over his choices to make Tivo hacking easier, and have gotten into very public flame wars with him over this. Is it no coincidence that it is the very same group of people who oppose his efforts to produce and maintain the TivoScripts ISO are also some of the same people who come here and rail against him here?

The story is much larger and more complicated than is being told here.

But then again, there's an old saying (in several different versions).

History is written by the victors, or by the people in power. History will not be impeded by truth or actual events.

Actually, "hacking history" is written by the people who do research and development, and share what they know. These childish arguments are irrelevant.

In two years, nobody will remember who "Meklos" is or what he said. People who google your handle will see only worthless posts buried deep in the Sewer, complaining about some alleged slight by the DDB moderators.

When that happens, will you blame us?

Meklos
06-17-2004, 12:55 PM
Actually, "hacking history" is written by the people who do research and development, and share what they know. These childish arguments are irrelevant.

In two years, nobody will remember who "Meklos" is or what he said. People who google your handle will see only worthless posts buried deep in the Sewer, complaining about some alleged slight by the DDB moderators.

When that happens, will you blame us?


Just couldn't resist getting a shot in, huh?

Again, it looks a lot like "Do as I say, not as I do."

malfunct
06-17-2004, 04:39 PM
Actually, "hacking history" is written by the people who do research and development, and share what they know. These childish arguments are irrelevant.

Your overall point is valid but it seems that hacking history (except to those in the "inner circle") seems to be written by the people who write the guides. You know how many people say they have installed "sleeper's hack" or "cobelli's hack" or used "hinsdale's method" when in reality there is a big group of people behind all that who really did the work. Not to knock the guide writers but in 10 years people will be talking about sleeper's hack and won't have any clue about all the great people here that really figured the stuff out. (not a shot at sleeper who knows what he is talking about and can and I'm sure will make real contributions.

This is not to make a shot at sleeper in any way though (or cobelli or any others). At least sleeper made it a point to say that he didn't develop the hacks that his scripts install but common people who will be the ones that spread the word don't seem to read that stuff.

alldeadhomiez
06-17-2004, 04:47 PM
Your overall point is valid but it seems that hacking history (except to those in the "inner circle") seems to be written by the people who write the guides. You know how many people say they have installed "sleeper's hack" or "cobelli's hack" or used "hinsdale's method" when in reality there is a big group of people behind all that who really did the work. Not to knock the guide writers but in 10 years people will be talking about sleeper's hack and won't have any clue about all the great people here that really figured the stuff out. (not a shot at sleeper who knows what he is talking about and can and I'm sure will make real contributions.

This is not to make a shot at sleeper in any way though (or cobelli or any others). At least sleeper made it a point to say that he didn't develop the hacks that his scripts install but common people who will be the ones that spread the word don't seem to read that stuff.

Ah, fair enough. We all stand on the shoulders of giants. Some people climb up there to see what they can put together (this would include Sleeper and most/all active developers here), and some people just do it so they can take a leak on everyone who has helped them. :)

THREAD CLOSED
06-17-2004, 05:09 PM
Sleeper PM'd the mods and Vadim and asked them to remove the personal information, citing that both Sleeper and DDB don't what to defend legal action.

Dear sir,

Is THIS (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:eJtL1qzR7_4J:www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php%3Fp%3D167763%26postcount%3D52+sleeper+%24100+tpm+site:dealdatabase.com&hl=en) the post which you threatened to sue Vadim for? :D

Earth to Sleeper, it's not illegal to post a pm. If you weren't screwing over the community behind our back that message would never even exist. Now it will never go away. :D

Regards,

alldeadhomiez
06-17-2004, 05:27 PM
Is THIS (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:eJtL1qzR7_4J:www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php%3Fp%3D167763%26postcount%3D52+sleeper+%24100+tpm+site:dealdatabase.com&hl=en) the post which you threatened to sue Vadim for? :D

Earth to Sleeper, it's not illegal to post a pm. If you weren't screwing over the community behind our back that message would never even exist. Now it will never go away. :D

Yes. For the record, the post never contained a name or address, just a company name. We diligently remove personal information whenever we see it; in this case there was none.

Now please just give it a rest and stop taunting.

Vadim
06-17-2004, 06:01 PM
Now please just give it a rest and stop taunting.

Thanks, stop wasting bandwidth on this dead issue.

AVD
07-12-2004, 11:00 PM
I hate to see anyone get banned. Good to see the moderators using the penalty box instead.

Banning someone never really solves the problem, sure some people will understand that they are unwanted. While others will harbor a grudge with the forum and return with a new account just to stir up even more trouble.

I urge people to use the ignore feature instead of calling for someone to be banned. It is much easier to ignore someone if they have 1 nick instead of someone that changes their nick every other week.

Just my 2 cents.



Whats the difference between a ban and a penalty box?

JJBliss
07-12-2004, 11:10 PM
Whats the difference between a ban and a penalty box?


Once I became an Administrator here, I implemented a new title for folks who are temporarily banned, as not to confuse them with people who are no longer welcome here at all