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jdiner
01-31-2005, 09:51 PM
I'm fairly certain a few of my friends playing with media center use the ATI Radeon 9600xt with no problems. Its not a bundle and has a lot of modern features.
Woah. Sorry. I was reading it and I swore it said 9800. I will have to look at the 9600's. Thanks for the feedback guys.

--jdiner

malfunct
02-01-2005, 02:25 AM
Woah. Sorry. I was reading it and I swore it said 9800. I will have to look at the 9600's. Thanks for the feedback guys.

--jdiner

No need to apologize, whatever you said before I didn't see :)

I recommended the 9600xt because its the card I personally want and it seems we have a number of things we do with our computers in common (different video editing/playback). It was rated in a couple of surveys last summer as the best performance/price ratio of all the cards out at the time.

EDIT: My workstation at work actually has the 9600xt but since its win2k3 which only supports about 15 video cards I can't use but a fraction of the "cool" features on the card. BTW I don't recommend win2k3 for ANY home use, its fully a server OS and getting it to do home type tasks even mildly well is tough at best. Stick with XP until longhorn hits the world (if longhorn isn't a purple gorilla).

snoots
02-02-2005, 07:52 PM
josh, your pm "stack" is full I can't pm you.

NVIDIA® GeForce™ FX 5200
Video Memory (VRAM) 128 MB (128-bit)

snoots

jdiner
02-03-2005, 12:43 AM
josh, your pm "stack" is full I can't pm you.
Yeah. Sorry about that. Believe it or not I get a fair number of PMs on a daily basis. Don't always have the time to answer things or clear it out...

Hovering at 148/150 after today.

--jdiner

rc3105
02-03-2005, 01:11 AM
Yeah. Sorry about that. Believe it or not I get a fair number of PMs on a daily basis. Don't always have the time to answer things or clear it out...

Hovering at 148/150 after today.

--jdiner
fwiw, the message control panel has options to

"Download all Private Messages as : XML | CSV | Text"


good for clearing out the inbox to prevent bouncing - time to reply is another kettle of fish...

jdiner
02-03-2005, 02:18 AM
fwiw, the message control panel has options to

"Download all Private Messages as : XML | CSV | Text"


good for clearing out the inbox to prevent bouncing - time to reply is another kettle of fish...
Oooohhh. I hadn't see that yet. Thanks for the info.

--jdiner

jdiner
02-05-2005, 02:52 AM
I am still having the issue with some .ty files only outputting about 500MB of data. Recall that a few pages pack we discussed that after the 500MB mark, the application speeds up dramatically and writes nothing else to the .vob file.
Alright. The problem has been found. Between 1 chunk and the next, at the 512meg mark there a bogus stream in the file. I found this in there:

crc mismatch len=66560 0x0f412e3c 0x7c3fccad
crc mismatch len=132096 0x4dd779c2 0x0eeea9a6

Now that has showed up at the beginning when starting tserver but I have never seen it in the middle of an extraction before. It could have been something that got changed with the alterations jamie made but I am just guessing on that.

So a couple of options as I see it. A fix to the server to make sure that string doesn't print into the stream like that. (A definate must for the long term.) And a program to strip out the string from those files that have been downloaded already.

EDIT: In looking at the data to the stream I found things that shouldn't be there. It wasn't downloaded with TyTool was it.

Anywhere here is the uncrc, modified from unpriority, to remove those problem lines.

--jdiner

mikemav
02-05-2005, 10:28 PM
Alright. The problem has been found. Between 1 chunk and the next, at the 512meg mark there a bogus stream in the file. I found this in there:

crc mismatch len=66560 0x0f412e3c 0x7c3fccad
crc mismatch len=132096 0x4dd779c2 0x0eeea9a6

Now that has showed up at the beginning when starting tserver but I have never seen it in the middle of an extraction before. It could have been something that got changed with the alterations jamie made but I am just guessing on that.

So a couple of options as I see it. A fix to the server to make sure that string doesn't print into the stream like that. (A definate must for the long term.) And a program to strip out the string from those files that have been downloaded already.

EDIT: In looking at the data to the stream I found things that shouldn't be there. It wasn't downloaded with TyTool was it.

Anywhere here is the uncrc, modified from unpriority, to remove those problem lines.

--jdiner
Thanks Josh! I tried the fix .exe and it worked. You rock! You are correct about the extraction- I pull all my shows using mfs_ftp with the fixed S2 binaries to prevent the priority set string. It is strange that most files process fine, but a few have this error. Anyway, the command line program fixes them for now. If you have any ideas to prevent the problem in the future let us know.

Thanks again

jdiner
02-05-2005, 11:52 PM
If you have any ideas to prevent the problem in the future let us know.
Download with TyTool.

--jdiner

bdjohns1
02-07-2005, 11:48 AM
Alright. You guys can test it. here it is...

The 2nd pre-release. This contains 100% all new OTA processing code. Works on everything I have thrown at it now but not everything works 100% for some reason.

Out of 85 test shows I had 2 play with no audio, appears to be a wierd bitrate/freq combination that just won't play on anything, and 3 that playback in a skippy popping way. Annoying but...



Sorry to chime in a month after this post...

For what it's worth, I just stumbled into this thread while searching on how to get TyTool to play nice with my new Pioneer DVR-810H. 9r18 would crash every time I tried to mux a file, but on a couple of quick recordings last night, I was able to sucessfully mux.

The interesting thing was that transferring a mux'd file was substantially faster - .ty files were transferring about 1.8 MB/sec, .mpg files were at around 2.3 MB/sec. Haven't tried VOB files yet.

Even better, it's a lot faster than burning a DVD-RW and shuffling it over. Took me nearly two hours to get Kill Bill in extreme quality burned off to 2 discs.

So, thanks for whatever changes made this work!

--Ben

jdiner
02-08-2005, 04:21 AM
Alright. I spent some time this evening working over the continuing issues with OTA HD audio streams.

I had a few thoughts but have verified that right up to the last stage of splitting all of the audio is present and accounted for. I.e. no lost bytes. That rules out a great many things that could be going wrong.

I don't know what is going wrong just that things are going as they should be. So I am trying to figure out what is really wrong. Is it the source stream or something in TyTool.

--jdiner

airf00
02-08-2005, 08:12 PM
I just downloaded 9r19Pre2 for my HR10-250 HD Tivo. Used Tytool to rip a 3.794 gig file and it has been working on creating a key file.

Bikini Destinations-Rio de Janeiro.ty: looping total = 932 mbytes (5256 seconds) That is 87+ Minutes.

This is on a A64 3400+ CPU with 1 gig of memory doing nothing else. CPU is 99% on tytool.

Is this just possibly a whacked up file I downloaded or is this common for HD streams?
----

Edited to add: Just tried a 5 min HD stream and it said you can't transcode Dolby. So, I set that to none and it worked fine. Guess I'll try again and get the other movie with audio set to none.

jdiner
02-08-2005, 09:29 PM
Well found a serious enough flaw in the latest Dolby code to warrant some changes. If this doesn't work maybe any of the other developers here that want to get involved and I can form a sort of round table discussion and see if we can't work something out that will be a decent solution.

Working over this latest idea t see what I can come up with hopefully it will work better than what we have had.

EDIT: BTW this particular error is what causes TyTool to start spitting out nothing but audio block dumps until the end of the stream.

--jdiner

jdiner
02-08-2005, 09:55 PM
Alright I hope to get a new pre-release version out tonight. I have a few more streams to check but I am hopefull that this one will help with some of the non-recoverable errors that seemed to be happeneing before.

EDIT: alright I mentioned a new release but then I had some serious problems with things. Everything runs along just fine and then the sync explodes after about 2 gig going into the file. For those that follow such things I wrote a tool years ago when first doing the muxer that showed the sync between the PTS values and the SCR. Here is the change over point:



@@@ diff = 366.893111
@@@ diff = 387.908667
@@@ diff = 368.556148
@@@ diff = 382.299704
@@@ diff = -6330.174593
@@@ diff = -14849.953593
@@@ diff = -24299.208037
@@@ diff = -33499.480519

As you can see everything is going swimmingly right up to and until "something" happens and then from there it just get worse. The change over happens at GOP 2438 and at the very end of the file the offset is:



@@@ diff = -306429.451444


No wonder people playing long long streams of HD shows are having certain issues. This is with a stream someone sent me that was still only 3 gig or so long. Once I figure this out and the related audio issue, start out at:

@@@ AUD diff = -315750.065333

Then I will be making the next pre-release.

--jdiner

airf00
02-10-2005, 12:04 AM
3 gig stream is small compared to some I have. 10 - 12 gig are common on my system.

I'll be patiently waiting.
Thanks jdiner....

jdiner
02-10-2005, 02:58 AM
3 gig stream is small compared to some I have. 10 - 12 gig are common on my system.
Yes. But I don't have an HD TIvo. I am doing the best I can with what I have. The streams I have gotten to this point except for the one that is noted are all < 450meg. So it is stand out for me and has showcased a few new problems.

--jdiner

snoots
02-10-2005, 10:43 AM
Josh, I can burn a dual layer disc with a big hd ty on it for you and send it to you if you need it.

Snoots

JustDan
02-10-2005, 01:59 PM
The large stream should be mine. As a point of reference it is processed
correctly by 9r18.

I still don't have a working burner at home, but if needed I can buy one
and burn a number of large streams.

jdiner
02-10-2005, 03:50 PM
Josh, I can burn a dual layer disc with a big hd ty on it for you and send it to you if you need it.
Thanks but lsmod has already done so. I have a few streams now that are much larger, one apparently 25+gig in length.

The key is that I know my streams are small, but in going just a bit larger a few previously unknown variations came into play. That is what I was fixing.

The latest oddity in the audio stream is one that for a full chunk, has 5 0 padding bytes at the end of each audio record. Not in the chunk before and not in the chunk after just that one. Really odd.

So I have taken what I have seen in the last couple of days and redone the audio processing to try and make it deal better with that exact problem.

Almost ready to test out the next major release.

--jdiner

Hi8
02-10-2005, 06:36 PM
Yes. But I don't have an HD TIvo. I am doing the best I can with what I have. The streams I have gotten to this point except for the one that is noted are all < 450meg. So it is stand out for me and has showcased a few new problems.

--jdiner

I'm willing to start the pot $50 for jdiner to upgrade to a HDTIVO if he wants. I know it's worth it to me to get these things banged out. I an't imagine that those here interested in extracting can't afford to kick in a few bucks.

How else can he develope TyTools for HD without a direct source for the streams.

jdiner; if you could post your paypal account for bounty/development costs donations... I'll be happy to ca-ching$

Hi8
02-10-2005, 06:51 PM
I just downloaded 9r19Pre2 for my HR10-250 HD Tivo. Used Tytool to rip a 3.794 gig file and it has been working on creating a key file.



where did you get it from... link? I'm willing to play too!

tmb
02-10-2005, 09:19 PM
jdiner; if you could post your paypal account for bounty/development costs donations... I'll be happy to ca-ching$


It is in the startup screen the first time tytool runs ie. when there is no .ini file

Just delete tytool.ini to get the startup sreen info if you have already run tytool.


I know a bunch of people on another forum were/are sending donations earmarked for buying an HDTIVO. I suspect that since jdiiner does not have an HDTV, those funds are going towards paying the bills.

His choice of course.

After all, he does spend a lot of much appreciated time on development of this High Def capability in tytool and we know time is money.

malfunct
02-10-2005, 11:41 PM
It is in the startup screen the first time tytool runs ie. when there is no .ini file.

Or you could go to Help->Donations

jdiner
02-11-2005, 12:00 AM
Alright. I have the audio algorithm rebuilt and it now seems to be quite successfull. Was trying to get a release out for the last couple of days.

I had assumed an issue was there and but until just now I had just assumed it existed. But now I have found one. In a single audio record in this OTA stream I just found this:


b 77 a6 25 1c 30 43 ff f3 80 1 0 0 6b cb 86 1
b 77 fa 8f 1c 30 43 ff f3 80 1 0 0 6b cb 86 97
b 77 ae 10 1c 40 43 ff f3 6 bd 38 61 14 fc 5b 193
b 77 6 4a 1c 30 e1 ff fc ec 92 50 0 3 ef ed 289
b 77 43 22 1c 30 e1 ff fc ec 92 50 0 3 ef ed 385
These are all audio records in different Dolby/AC3 formats. The first 2 audio records are a reduced AC3 format, the second is the standard AC3 surround format main format, then back to a completely different partial/reduced format.

So in 1 audio record in the TyStream we have 5 audio presentation units and 3 very different audio formats in place. This is just buckets of joy.

The new algorithm supports this finally.

--jdiner

jdiner
02-11-2005, 12:18 AM
I know a bunch of people on another forum were/are sending donations earmarked for buying an HDTIVO. I suspect that since jdiiner does not have an HDTV, those funds are going towards paying the bills.
Just checked the paypal account for the donations. Everything has been mixed together from the standard stuff and then HD stuff. I was keeping track individually for awhile there but then I just ran out of time to do so.

I have up to the present had $640.49 donated for TyTool stuff in the last oh 6 months or so.

So far this year (only 6 or so weeks old) I have had 5 donations totalling $125 before PayPal took their "cut" of the money.

Now I am not trying to say anything negative here. A donation is just that a donation from the kindness of whoevers heart. At the end of last year I got a couple of people that donated very large sums, and many many that were <= $10. All are appriciated.

I have occasionally used the donations for things, I bought some DVD media, a new DTV multi-switch when the old one died, a PCI sat card so that I could look at the mpegs that came from it, etc...

But I pretty much keep that stuff for the general purpose of TyTool development in general.

Anyway, I am slowly saving my way towards an HDTivo but a $1000+ is just going to take a bit of time.

I don't want any feeling obligated or guilty in anyway. That isn't the point of doing this. If it was I would just have made it shareware. My comment should be taken as a bit frustrated with the development of the HD code and the nature of this last round of problems and the word "patience" in general.

Some seem to expect to send me a stream and the fix will be forthcoming. While that is the end goal I haven't even made it all the way through the most recent set of problem streams mikemav, lsmod and others have sent to me.

--jdiner

jdiner
02-11-2005, 05:31 AM
Well the new audio code is performing beautifully. Just re-running all of the HD test files. Things are a few of the tests.

I have about 45 more files to go. But I am out of steam for the night. So assuming things go well look for more info or a release sometime tomorrow.

--jdiner

jdiner
02-12-2005, 10:02 PM
Sorry for the constant delays in the mentioned release. I have made things a ton better but I am still bugged by the issues that remain. I have continued to look at them in an attempt to see what I can do about these issues. I want to keep going until I get this stuff working as well as the SD streams but these last few issues are really being problematic.

TyTool now handles the wildly changing audio streams that some people are seeing. It now handles the changing of audio length within a single TyStream. It re-locks back onto the data in the case of a "way too long" dolby record much much better than before. And so on.

What is wrong now that I am still looking at:

1- There are some streams where there are constant holes and I am trying to figure out why.

2- There are a number of streams where it has clearly run off of the end of the stream but the data lines up as if it should be good data to be processed (this change is new to the HDTIVOs...)

3- There are some issues with the PTs valus in the audio being majorly non-contiguous. They wind up jumping by small amounts. This looks like a bad encoder but I want to be certain of what is going on.

--jdiner

jdiner
02-13-2005, 05:58 AM
Here is a new version for the HD users to test. It has much improved audio code for dealing with OTA and other HD streams. It now works a ton better on the test streams I have. Many that had warnings and other prints now report nothing as it is all handled. A few still report issues. Sometimes these are just warnings about things I would like TyTool to deal with better. Others are actual errors.

Here is something of a key for the ones that I am still seeing:

#1- Warning - A hole in the audio has been found:

@@@ off by 34560
@@@ predicted bPTS = 01:29:11.246
@@@ next real PTS = 01:29:11.630
Since the OTA streams like to pack the audio in odd ways I have to split it out and come up with predictive timestamps for each un-specified entry. In doing so I keep track of what should be next to verify against what is actually next. What this does is let me find holes in the audio. The above shows such an entry. The next one "should be" at 11.246 but is at 11.630 which means there is a hole in the audio of 12 audio PUs.

What I want to do is pad these out with silent packets automatically, not part of the flag that is there now, as the holes are clear and often within a single record. But at present nothing more than a report is made. If splitting you have the same hole issues as always. When mux'ing in whatever form chosen there is no problem with this.


#2- Warning - This is just a left over warning that needs to be silenced as it no longer really applies.


In checking dolby errors we need more than 1 audio packet!
#3- Recovered Error - The hex dump. They should happen much less frequently now. They occur when either there is too much data between header, way to little data, or when the audio format changes so completely from 1 record to the next that it can't be sure that it actually is the next data header. in any case it prints one long hex dump of the data.

It still prints it so that I can see what is going on. It is largely meaningless unless you have a pretty solid understanding of the AC3 data format.

This will not cause major isses in the output. It will cause the loss of 1, and I do mean just one, audio PU. So when mux'ing sync is maintained, when splitting you have a single PU hole.

I plan to do more here I am just not sure what yet. These format changes are extreme and that makes them a challange to deal with.


#4- Ingore/Warning - This is actually part of the above hex dump, but doesn't always look like it is. When internal flags are set right a ton of AC3 format and decode information is printed out here. Makes the log files/output files huge so it has been removed but I just realized I forgot to remove this string.


BAD DUMP!
#5- Information - This one is literally just information. Nothing more. I.e. it does not indicate an error in any fashion.


End of Stream flag found...
In trying to figure out what was going with the repeated data from the same show in a few clips that I was sent I added a print to show me when the code indicating the end of a stream was produced. It is informational only and once we are a big further down the road it will be removed again.

But for now if anyone sees this message way to early in a file, or and further processing on the same file after seeing it then please let me know.

Other than that the focus was again proper processing of HD files.

Give it a whirl, with the standard settings:
1- Download in TyTool in TyStream format.
2- Process into a vob using the old format.
3- Don't try to transcode audio or patch audio holes.

This really should work a ton better than the old stuff. If it does I might just have to shoot something.

--jdiner

airf00
02-13-2005, 03:34 PM
I've tried to pull down a 3.5 gig stream twice and both times around 800 meg it freezes. Makes the tivo drop its IP address so you can't even ping it. Had to reboot tivo.

Had no trouble pulling down a standard def 900 meg stream.

Anyone else have this problem? And yes I'm using the pre-release 3. Same 'freeze' happened with ver 2.

mikemav
02-13-2005, 05:15 PM
All the .ty files I already had extracted have processed fine. Have not tried extracting something new yet. Great job Josh!

Jamie
02-13-2005, 06:06 PM
Alright. The problem has been found. Between 1 chunk and the next, at the 512meg mark there a bogus stream in the file. I found this in there:

crc mismatch len=66560 0x0f412e3c 0x7c3fccad
crc mismatch len=132096 0x4dd779c2 0x0eeea9a6

Now that has showed up at the beginning when starting tserver but I have never seen it in the middle of an extraction before. It could have been something that got changed with the alterations jamie made but I am just guessing on that.In my versions of the mfs_vplay_tserver programs, these sort of error messages are always written to stderr rather than the stream file descriptor. They should not end up interleaved with stream data. If these strings did end up in the stream using my versions of any of the tools (tserver, or the mfs_* programs that mfs_ftp uses), I would like to understanding exactly what caused it.

bcc
02-13-2005, 06:22 PM
In my versions of the mfs_vplay_tserver programs, these sort of error messages are always written to stderr rather than the stream file descriptor. They should not end up interleaved with stream data. If these strings did end up in the stream using my versions of any of the tools (tserver, or the mfs_* programs that mfs_ftp uses), I would like to understanding exactly what caused it.He was probably using the mfs_export I posted to address the "Priority set" to stdout bug. My crc.c came from pserver.samba.org, and still had such errors going to stdout (the cvs sources over there still are that way). Of course simply redirecting these errors to stderr with the extraction tools never displaying the error to the end user isn't so great either.

In any case, the "MFS_FTP on Series 2 Units" thread should probably now point to your mfs binaries not mine. I can't update the reference since it's riley's thread/message.

bcc
02-13-2005, 06:35 PM
Of course simply redirecting these errors to stderr with the extraction tools never displaying the error to the end user isn't so great either.I notice that in your mfs_ftp patch to make it use mfs_uberexport, mfs_ftp still redirects stderr to /dev/null. Maybe this could be changed so that the errors go to a log file. The if the log file is non-zero, the user is given a reference to the log file in a warning that goes out on the command socket.

jdiner
02-13-2005, 07:33 PM
Anyone else have this problem? And yes I'm using the pre-release 3. Same 'freeze' happened with ver 2.
Look to the configuration of your network (client and tivo) and your Tivo directly. This kind of lockup was reported long long ago by users that had massively overloaded the tivo.

Not that it helps you directly but I use exactly the same client and server as everyone else and I extract all the time. The uptime on my main tivo is 45 days right now and I extracted 40+ gig last night in prep for processing today.

If it is killing the network stack on the tivo then something is really wrong.

The same advice and as flakey computer applies. Run only what you must. So stop everything but the native tivo apps and the tserver app. Meaning stop tivoftpd, tivoweb, mfs_ftp, etc... You do need to keep tnlited running as that is how the tserver is started etc...

Then leave the remote alone. Long ago you could force a reboot on a tivo while extracting by getting frustrated and hitting the remote buttons too many times. Seemed to signal the OS that things were frozen and a forced reboot was needed.

Beyond that, no ideas.

EDIT: Had one more idea. What method of defeating scrambling are you using? I have used the standard for some time and they work for me. But I have never used the newer unscramble and it children. If you are it is possible that that is the culprit. Just a wild guess on my part...

--jdiner

Jamie
02-13-2005, 11:15 PM
I notice that in your mfs_ftp patch to make it use mfs_uberexport, mfs_ftp still redirects stderr to /dev/null. Maybe this could be changed so that the errors go to a log file. The if the log file is non-zero, the user is given a reference to the log file in a warning that goes out on the command socket.Yes, I've been meaning to redo the patch to catch the stderr and redirect it to the mfs_ftp log. Right now the error messages drop on the floor.

JustDan
02-14-2005, 01:32 PM
Just one stream processed, but it went smoothly.

One quirk I've noticed (but can live with) when adding a FAE cut the
system will occassionally be unable to locate a frame to start from and
will appear to read through the whole file. If I move forward or back one
postition with the "< >" buttons it locks on.

Since it doesn't crash and is easy to work around I don't think it is
worth too much effort, but wanted to provide feedback.

jdiner
02-14-2005, 03:44 PM
Just one stream processed, but it went smoothly.

One quirk I've noticed (but can live with) when adding a FAE cut the
system will occassionally be unable to locate a frame to start from and
will appear to read through the whole file. If I move forward or back one
postition with the "< >" buttons it locks on.

Since it doesn't crash and is easy to work around I don't think it is
worth too much effort, but wanted to provide feedback.
I haven't seen that yet but you are the second person to report it. I plan to look into it but I have no real idea what is going on.

However I didn't realize it was scanning the rest of the file. In thinking about it that is what the code would do. At the very least I need to add a short cut. The data is supposed to be right there where the reading process was started. I can add a simple check that if it isn't found in X chunks then something went wrong and have it short-cut out early and stop. No need to scan a file that large past a certain point. Odd. But we are only now really getting to the point where things that are coming up.

I have not received a ton of feedback. Makes me think that either people are busy or the new code is working. So for now I will sit back for a bit and wait and see what people have to report on the new code. Hopefully the new stuff will process appropriately the majority of the files both DTV and OTA.

--jdiner

mikeaco
02-14-2005, 06:27 PM
Well, I've just started extracting streams from my relatively new HDTiVo. I haven't done enough reading to know all of the steps to do things right. But, I have to say that TyTool is very easy to use. It didn't take me long to extract my first stream once I go the TiVo set up properly.

I initially had the TiVo hard-wired to my wireless router and the computer that I was extracting to using a wireless PCI card. However, for large files I would often get lockups while extracting and have to reboot the TiVo (only serial BASH worked). I then disabled everything except telnet and hooked my destination PC directly up to the router (as suggested in previous posts). I noticed an improvement from between 0.8 to 1.0 MB/s to 1.8 to 2.0 MB/s transfer rate (as someone else mentioned in previous posts while comparing wireless to wired transfer rates). Also, with the new wired connection the 2.5GB stream I pulled off did not lock up.

The one stream that I did pull off was about a 30 minute clip from the Nascar Qualifying, in HD AC3 DD5.1, off OTA FOX. I'm not sure what all of the processing options are (like I said, I haven't read enough yet), but I tried the option to create a quick VOB using the to see what happens using the Pre3 release. There were a couple of sections of hex dumps that it seemd to recover from, along with an accompanying BAD DUMP warning in the log file. Other than that, it appears to have worked well and I was able to play the VOB using PowerDVD without problems that I could see. BTW - I haven't really used the last released version much, so I can't really tell if this latest release works better or worse...

Thanks for the great tool! I hope to read more to learn what all it can do, how to edit out ads, etc. etc.

toyotafan
02-14-2005, 11:31 PM
Thanks for the update! I'm still having problems with 3 Seattle area OTA channels using the latest release.

UPN, KSTW Channel 11:
Generates tons of these OOB packet errors.

Tee if it lines up.
Nope... Not in sequence... Skipping it...
.Found an OOB packet... The Audio Diff is: 00:00:00.256
Is it in sequence??? It is OFF by exactly 3.555556 frames.
It is in the right range. Let's see if it lines up.
Nope... Not in sequence... Skipping it...

Found an OOB packet... The Audio Diff is: 00:00:00.256
Is it in sequence??? It is OFF by exactly 3.555556 frames.
It is in the right range. Let's see if it lines up.
Nope... Not in sequence... Skipping it...

.Found an OOB packet... The Audio Diff is: 00:00:00.256
Is it in sequence??? It is OFF by exactly 3.555556 frames.
It is in the right range. Let's see if it lines up.
Nope... Not in sequence... Skipping it...
Done with 'D:\HiDef\Star Trek- Enterprise-United.ty'...

FOX, KCPQ Channel 13
Tytool starts to process then crashes with an exception error code 5.

Mux'ing (with cuts): D:\HiDef\Spider-Man-.ty
Detected Tivo Type: HDTivo
Detected Audio Stream Type: Dolby Digital 5.1
Final standardAudioSize = 1840
Final standardFrameLength = 1536
Final standardAudioDiff = 6480 or 00:00:00.072
First Video PTS: 09:07:20.260

WB, KTWB Channel 22
Tytool starts to process then crashes with an exception error code 5.

Trancode Selected Mode: 0
Ready...
Mux'ing (with cuts): D:\HiDef\Jack & Bobby-Into the Woods.ty
Detected Tivo Type: HDTivo
Detected Audio Stream Type: Dolby Digital 5.1
Final standardAudioSize = 5888
Final standardFrameLength = 0
Final standardAudioDiff = 6480 or 00:00:00.072
First Video PTS: 09:35:17.263

Steve

jdiner
02-15-2005, 03:38 AM
Thanks for the update! I'm still having problems with 3 Seattle area OTA channels using the latest release.
Wow. Those are some crap sources. The first is holes in the audio data. Nothing to be done there, as they are after all holes.

On the second and third I have no idea, things are a little off in the size reports but beyond that there isn't any information even to hazard a guess on.

--jdiner

airf00
02-15-2005, 04:28 PM
Look to the configuration of your network (client and tivo) and your Tivo directly. This kind of lockup was reported long long ago by users that had massively overloaded the tivo.

Not that it helps you directly but I use exactly the same client and server as everyone else and I extract all the time. The uptime on my main tivo is 45 days right now and I extracted 40+ gig last night in prep for processing today.

If it is killing the network stack on the tivo then something is really wrong.

The same advice and as flakey computer applies. Run only what you must. So stop everything but the native tivo apps and the tserver app. Meaning stop tivoftpd, tivoweb, mfs_ftp, etc... You do need to keep tnlited running as that is how the tserver is started etc...

Then leave the remote alone. Long ago you could force a reboot on a tivo while extracting by getting frustrated and hitting the remote buttons too many times. Seemed to signal the OS that things were frozen and a forced reboot was needed.

Beyond that, no ideas.

EDIT: Had one more idea. What method of defeating scrambling are you using? I have used the standard for some time and they work for me. But I have never used the newer unscramble and it children. If you are it is possible that that is the culprit. Just a wild guess on my part...

--jdiner

I'll try stopping a few things. My HDtivo is just a standard install with normal network drivers. The only other thing I'm running is the ftp support which I'll turn off. And yes, the HD tivo is extremely slow!.

I'm wondering if other HD tivo people have to do the same for extraction. :confused:

thanks.

desplaines
02-18-2005, 03:13 AM
I have not received a ton of feedback. Makes me think that either people are busy or the new code is working. So for now I will sit back for a bit and wait and see what people have to report on the new code.
--jdiner
I installed 9r19-pre3, and it worked fine making a key file for a two-'part' chunk of the Super Bowl HD broadcast. I had not tried any of the other post-9r18 betas yet, and 9r18 itself would instantly crash when trying to make the key file (but that sort of problem is why you are releasing the betas, I know).

I extracted the two pieces because I only wanted to save one of the cool Super Bowl HD commercials, and I picked the wrong parts (when viewing in GOP Editor), so I will have to try other segments next (without taking the whole 26GB game). You are right in my case-I have been busy, like SF-to-Chicago-to-Boston and back in 54 hours... Thank you for the ongoing HD-related work.

mikeaco
02-18-2005, 01:08 PM
I have not received a ton of feedback. Makes me think that either people are busy or the new code is working. So for now I will sit back for a bit and wait and see what people have to report on the new code. Hopefully the new stuff will process appropriately the majority of the files both DTV and OTA.

Well, I have done some reading and thought I'd try my luck on cutting the one OTA HD DD5.1 (approx. 30 minute) file that I had recently extracted with Pre3. Here's what I did:

Starting with the .ty file, I created a key file. I then went in to edit the key file and the GOP editor GUI came up. There were two ad spots in the stream, which I FAE cut. I saved the cut file and exited the GOP editor. Then, I chose Mux-VOB (new version) to create a VOB file. I noticed that the two hex dumps I got when I originally Mux-VOB'd the full un-cut .ty file were still there in the cut version. It finished processing and I fired up PowerDVD to give it a shot. Video played fine the whole way...the ads were cut out properly. The DD5.1 track played fine up until the first cut section. After that, there was no audio.

I haven't had time to play with the file more. I'll need to do some more reading to make sure that I did everything correctly. I wasn't really sure what I was doing in the GOP editor. Anything obvious that I missed or could have done to screw up the audio?

Well, back to reading and learning...

jdiner
02-18-2005, 01:20 PM
Then, I chose Mux-VOB (new version) to create a VOB file.
And what have I said time and again about the new vob mux when using HD streams?

--jdiner

mikeaco
02-18-2005, 02:10 PM
The old format mux and VOb are what I am using. As posted before the new mux forces things into DVD compatiblity modes which is no where near the rates needed for HiDef streams.

Ah ha! I found this post...I guess I know what I will try next. Thanks!

Walter Mitty
02-18-2005, 02:17 PM
I don't know if this means anything to anyone, but I was able to download .ty streams using 9r18. I then used Hdemux to seperate in to Audio and Video Streams. These were OTA Recordings and all went Flawless. However, If I tried to download the stream muxed or split files, it wouldn't work. The only problem I had was re-encoding the video.... The only program that wouldn't crash while encoding was procoder.

Just thought I'd Add my two cents.... :rolleyes:

patriot
02-18-2005, 10:19 PM
I don't know if this means anything to anyone, but I was able to download .ty streams using 9r18. I then used Hdemux to seperate in to Audio and Video Streams. These were OTA Recordings and all went Flawless. However, If I tried to download the stream muxed or split files, it wouldn't work. The only problem I had was re-encoding the video.... The only program that wouldn't crash while encoding was procoder.

Just thought I'd Add my two cents.... :rolleyes:

I have done what you suggested, I can encode without any issues using avs scripts with vdub then CCE and Mplex.

However, Not All my OTA are usable, some have weird issues, and in this case. I have just dumped them.

AlphaWolf
02-19-2005, 03:53 PM
EDIT: In looking at the data to the stream I found things that shouldn't be there. It wasn't downloaded with TyTool was it.

I have seen anomalies like this one in an improper LBA48 kernel. It is caused when tivoapp wants to write to one portion of the disk but the kernel actually does the write somewhere where it shouldn't be doing it. Thus you'll end up with one a stream being overwritten with part of another stream, or maybe some database info that doesn't belong there, etc. You'll notice this in the form of artefacting or total screen garble when you play the stream, sometimes you wont notice it at all of the stream has a very high bitrate, e.g. hdtv streams.

mikemav
02-19-2005, 09:54 PM
I have seen anomalies like this one in an improper LBA48 kernel. It is caused when tivoapp wants to write to one portion of the disk but the kernel actually does the write somewhere where it shouldn't be doing it. Thus you'll end up with one a stream being overwritten with part of another stream, or maybe some database info that doesn't belong there, etc. You'll notice this in the form of artefacting or total screen garble when you play the stream, sometimes you wont notice it at all of the stream has a very high bitrate, e.g. hdtv streams.

My HD Tivo was hacked very early on with a PROM mod. Seems to work fine, but I wonder if that could have anything to do with it. Has never had a software upgrade, BTW, due to Fake Call.

Woody Allen
02-21-2005, 01:46 AM
plain old vanilla 733/64 softmod 1.1 xbox. boot a basic gentoo kernel with networking (no gui) then invoke a mplayer build with combined nvidia drivers ( essentially treating mplayer as though it were a mpeg decoder card or chip )

could probably get XBMP or XBMC working 'bout as well if you neuter'd the ftp server & any other cruft that eats cpu cycles


I'm curious about how well this works while streaming from from a HR10-250 - if you can get full frame rate. What type of stream (mfs_ftp or ccxstream) and if it has been taken any further so as to bring up the NP list on the XBOX.

Hi8
02-21-2005, 07:55 AM
I'm looking for the thread releated to extracting from the HR10-250 with issues related to it, losing connectivity as welll as jamming the rest of the network.

I've searched around but can't seem to find what I vaguely remember reading. I seem to recall someone discribing exactly what is happening to my setup. I'm wondering if ther is a fix?

It seems to happen during the xfer of large files, (more that 500megs) I have not had the problem with general FTP only during video extraction. Last night I was successful xfering without a problem, but nothing was scheduled to be recorded during the time of transfer, and my unit was in 'standby'.

The other difference was that I was using MFS_FTP and not tserver.

I'm sorry if this has been discussed and I haven't found it, and slightly off topic for the theme of this thread; but I figured it was the closest to my key words that I tried search for.

the following is a result of a good transfer from last night - when it works it works WELL!




[L] Opening data connection IP: 192.168.1.114 PORT: 3104
[L] RETR {Boston Legal}{2005-02-20}{Tortured Souls}{10.03 PM Sun Feb 20, 2005}{WTNHDT}.ty
[L] 150 About to open data connection.
[L] 226 Transfer complete.
Transferred: {Boston Legal}{2005-02-20}{Tortured Souls}{10.03 PM Sun Feb 20, 2005}{WTNHDT}.ty 5.74 GB in 1 hours 16 minutes 57 seconds (1,304.5 KB/s)
[L] PASV
[L] 227 Entering Passive Mode (192,168,1,114,12,32).
[L] Opening data connection IP: 192.168.1.114 PORT: 3104
[L] RETR {Doobie Brothers Concert}{2004-12-19}{}{12.00 AM Mon Feb 07, 2005}{HDN}.ty
[L] 150 About to open data connection.
[L] 226 Transfer complete.
Transferred: {Doobie Brothers Concert}{2004-12-19}{}{12.00 AM Mon Feb 07, 2005}{HDN}.ty 11.27 GB in 3 hours 1 minutes 47 seconds (1,083.8 KB/s)
Transfer queue completed
Transferred 2 files totaling 17.02 GB in 4 hours 18 minutes 45 seconds (1,149.4 KB/s)


edit: I forgot to add that I running a PTVUPGRADE HD - 3.1.5e and Netgear FA120 usb adapter.

rc3105
02-21-2005, 11:40 AM
I'm curious about how well this works while streaming from from a HR10-250 - if you can get full frame rate. What type of stream (mfs_ftp or ccxstream) and if it has been taken any further so as to bring up the NP list on the XBOX.
works great with an optomized vserver. np, todo, scheduling & such are all easily accessable by connecting to tivoweb

jdiner
03-05-2005, 02:16 AM
Alright. In an attempt to clean up the output for the HD streams I have created a second form of the new muxer. Works similarly to the previously new version but attempts to keep things in line better in terms of buffer management etc... Should solve a few of the problems we are still having with occasional glitches etc...

Anyone still Q'ing up a large number of HD streams? I am looking for a few beta testers before making it publicly available.

--jdiner

THardie
03-05-2005, 03:37 PM
I'm still queuing a bunch of OTA HD stuff up, so I'd be more than happy to try it out for you.

BTW - If it makes you feel any better - I recorded a Law & Order off NBC HD the other day that even my TiVo had a hard time playing (Dropped frames, then audio and no video, etc).

Regards,

Terry

jdiner
03-07-2005, 03:32 AM
Well this isn't good. I have been trying to address the HD FAE editing issues over the last few days. Tracked a few of them down only to find that the most serious seeming one came from the new mpeg2enc program.

Altered it to always have the --no-constraints set. Makes things a bit easier. The discovered it wasn't producing an B frames at all. 1 I and then multiple P frames. While this works it isn't as size/cost effective. Wonder why they did that? Anyone know?

--jdiner

jdiner
03-07-2005, 04:28 AM
Alright. patched a couple of issues with the FAE process for HD and found that the mpeg2enc that we have been trying to use is pretty sad. I saved out the results of the mpeg2enc call on one of the GOPs at the edit point and then looked at it frame by frame. The y4m file is correct and looks good. The mpeg that results however is visibly damaged. Needs a ton of help.

So it is time to look at some other encoders of one form or another. Any suggestions from those doing lots of work with HD.

--jdiner

jdiner
03-07-2005, 05:08 AM
Hummm. Interesting. Gave ffmpeg a whirl just now and it appears to work quite nicely on the y4m files that mpeg2enc pukes on. So I would assume we will wind up going that route unless something changes.

Anyone got any reason not too?

--jdiner

jdiner
03-07-2005, 06:15 PM
Alright so has interest in this stuff wained or are people just busy. I was just expecting at least 1 person to sound off on the subject.

--jdiner

tPeter42
03-07-2005, 06:24 PM
I'm still listening, as I'm sure a lot of other users are. I just don't have any input on encoders :(

bgrubb1
03-08-2005, 12:17 AM
Same here, listening intently

jdiner
03-08-2005, 02:35 AM
Alright with little to no feedback, :), on the mpeg2 encoder problem I put ffmpeg through its paces. So far so good. A very interesting process.

The encoder is HUGE! 3+meg for just a single EXE. But it is high-speed, much faster than what we had, and the resulting image quality is excellent.

The output file format is unfortunate. Couldn't find a way to make be just the raw video ES so I have putting in a simple simple parser to turn it into what is expected by the cutting processes of TyTool. Once that is done a few simple GUI changes, a switch for the existing program or ffmpeg, and things should be much much better at the FAE cut points.

--jdiner

gwaldock
03-08-2005, 02:21 PM
Check your PayPal, Josh!

Thanks for your tireless efforts. I really do appreciate it, and I am confident that you will conquer the remaining Hi-Def issues.

Best regards,
Gary

desplaines
03-09-2005, 10:27 PM
Alright so has interest in this stuff waned or are people just busy. I was just expecting at least 1 person to sound off on the subject.

--jdiner
I have been super-busy but my interest is still high... I have finally done enough HD editing (with 9r19 pre-3) that I am confident in my abilities, but I have still only used GAE, not FAE because I am only breaking up files into DVD-sized chunks. For that purpose, pre-3 has worked just about flawlessly for me-and I will show appreciation with another visit to Paypal. :)

Sources have been mostly movies from HBO and HDNet Movies, and Discovery HD, HDNet, NBC OTA and Fox OTA.

snoots
03-09-2005, 10:46 PM
I have been spending a lot of time on my S2 trying to finish up the 6.2 upgrade. Extractions are very very slow, I sped them up tonight with the backported drivers and then for about the millionth time forgot to chmod the rc.sysinit.author file so I get to pull the drive again :(
I appreciate the continued efforts you are making on the hd stuff.
Thanks Again !

bdeweese
03-10-2005, 12:08 AM
Hey Snoots - Slightly OT, but many folks, including me, load the tnlited and tivoftpd from both rc.sysinit and rc.sysinit.author with no apparent il side effects. This way if you forget to chmod your author file, you should still be able to gain network access to make the fix. When I initially tested the setup I was able to boot with a virtually empty author file and still gain net access. FWIW. As I recall I had to load the network library modules from rc.sysinit as well. I placed it all at the end of rc.sysinit.

Bob

jdiner
03-10-2005, 01:52 AM
Hummm. This isn't good. I put in a parser for ffmpeg files and the colorization is radically different. Appears to me to be a side-effect of a fixed-point math type thing. No proof of that just what it looks like to me.

Also when I try to use the images produced by ffmpeg as part of the menu process the menu then takes a minute plus to load. Where as the older stuff is pretty much immediate.

So something wrong there...

--jdiner

tmb
03-12-2005, 04:35 PM
Same here - just listening/reading this thread because I don't do any editing.

I strictly use tytool to upload and then make the one giant VOB file to play back on my HDTV.

Fast Forward for commercials with my various playback methods work just fine.

jdiner
03-12-2005, 07:20 PM
Well what do you know... I just reworked the source code to mpeg2enc, the original one from the mpeg consortium group (not the one from mjpegtools group by the same name), which is a simpler program all the way around, no MMX etc... And it works. I get much better looking and proper output from it than I do from either mjpegtools mpeg2enc or ffmpeg.

This was test on a few different blocks of things: 1920x1080, 1920x1088, and 1280x720.

In the highest resolution after awhile the ffmpeg, which seemed good at first, broke down and everything it was sending out was an I-frame and not the proper GOP structure. Wierd that but whatever.

A couple of things here:
1- Now I have write and interface for this code so that it can take the same y4m files that are currently being used.

2- I have to see what I can do do speed this code up. Starting with just flags on compiling and going from there. At 1920x1080 recompressing 14 frames took 2:30 on my AMD 2000+ machine. So it is slower than the others. The others took less time, mjpegtools' mpeg2enc took 40 seconds on the same source and machine and ffmpeg took 2 seconds.

So... a ways to go here.

Sadly ffmpeg won't work. Would be really nice if it did as it is just so darn fast. The encoding of the 14 frames with it gives this pattern though:
IPPPPPIIPIII

Which, for those of you that were counting, is 1 frame short of what should have been encoded. So not only is the frame pattern completely wrong, internal buffering or something is eating of the required frames. So fast it is, correct it is not. :(

Will keep you all posted. The good news and what should be taken away from this is that I have found a working solution for FAE cutting using any of the HD resolutions I have seen in my test clips.

--jdiner

snoots
03-12-2005, 07:22 PM
Good news, thanks for your efforts on the hd stuff !!!!

jdiner
03-12-2005, 07:25 PM
Compiler with cygwin and /O2 optimizations just re-ran it and it took 1:30 to run it. So rightly 2x what the mjpegtools version takes but this one actually works. So looks like we will be heading that direction. Some MMX/SIMD asm code would speed this pig up a bit but I am no expert at that and so it isn't going to be done by me. After I get the interface part built anyone here want to try doing such for the base code? That way it can be done offline and just plugged in later whenever it is working/usable.

--jdiner

rsvader
03-12-2005, 10:22 PM
Been following this thread for sometime now, also trying to take apart some difficult ATV streams primarily from FOX locals I downloaded from my HD10-250. I just wanted to chime in here to let jdiner know there is a whole TV engineering staff that appreciate your efforts. We crunch, mux, demux all sorts of video all day long for various reasons but these ATV HiDef streams are the fun stuff. Haven't had much luck though with the 720p FOX output.

SR712
03-14-2005, 10:10 PM
I know this is OT, but... I have to join in with vader; there are many video professionals weeding through this maze of digital video formats, and you, jdiner, have been a big help to all. I know of several broadcast engineers who frequently visit and contribute to this forum. I'm sure there are also some who would love to have someone with your knowledge and demeanor on their staff. We rarely tell ya, but you are appreciated. :)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program ..... :D

asicguyca
03-16-2005, 01:20 PM
I think so!

Thanks to all contributors for all the great info.

jdiner
03-21-2005, 03:25 PM
Alright. I need the help of someone with a slant towards being a developer, or one who actually is would be best, and an up-to-date linux/unix installation.

I have been trying for several days to get the latest CVS release of mpeg2enc from the mjpegtools group to run through autoconf to make the requisite configure script and make then onto make files. I have been unable to get it to go at all...

I have installed 3 different OSs in the last little while all in an attempt to get it to run, FreeBSD 5.3/Debian 3.0/Redhat 9, and on none of them can I get the process to run as expected. Now I am by no means am autoconf wizard and so the errors mean little to nothing to me. However as found on the mailling list of the system others can and do have it working. All I really need is the makefiles so that I get it compiled and can then do some testing with the unreleased HD portions.

Anyone have the know how, patience, of desire to help? If so please sound off, I need to be able to look at this if I am going to be able to move things forward.

--jdiner

tPeter42
03-21-2005, 04:49 PM
Anyone have the know how, patience, of desire to help? If so please sound off, I need to be able to look at this if I am going to be able to move things forward.

--jdiner

I can probably give it a try if I can find some time. I don't really understand what you want to do with the makefile though. Are you just looking for dependencies or something? You are going to be building this stuff on Windows right?

Sean.

tPeter42
03-21-2005, 06:20 PM
I did the following on my redhat 9 box:


cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mjpeg login
cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mjpeg co -P mjpeg_play
cd mjpeg_play
autogen.sh
./configure --prefix=/usr
I'm attaching the resulting Makefile from the mpeg2enc directory.

Let me know if I can help any more,

Sean.

jdiner
03-21-2005, 06:33 PM
I can probably give it a try if I can find some time. I don't really understand what you want to do with the makefile though. Are you just looking for dependencies or something? You are going to be building this stuff on Windows right?

I misspoke a bit. I wanted the configure scripts and what not that were the output. So more than just the makefile. But in general I wanted to start by compiling it under unix and running some tests and then would move onto windows using the defines and what not from the makefile as the template for how to build it.

--jdiner

jdiner
03-21-2005, 06:34 PM
I did the following on my redhat 9 box:


cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mjpeg login
cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mjpeg co -P mjpeg_play
cd mjpeg_play
autogen.sh
./configure --prefix=/usr
I'm attaching the resulting Makefile from the mpeg2enc directory.

Let me know if I can help any more,
Ack! Ok. That officially pisses me off. What version of redhat, exactly, are you running? Any updates to it?

I seriously installed many things trying to get this to work and go nothing. I would like to have one that did do all of this right and you make it look so easy...

What version of autoconf are you running etc? Any warnings or errors that you saw?

--jdiner

tPeter42
03-21-2005, 06:51 PM
From this thread:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04996.html

someone was reccomending the following:


libtool-libs-1.5.6-4
libtool-1.5.6-4
automake-1.7.8-1
autoconf-2.57-3
I have the following:


libtool-libs-1.5.6-0.fdr.0.rh90
libtool-1.5.6-0.fdr.0.rh90
automake-1.7.8-0.ximian.6.3 (found on rpm.pbone.net)
autoconf-2.57-3

I believe the autoconf package is the default package that came with the RH9 install. All the others are "after market". I have added lots of new packages over the past couple of years I've been running this install. There could possibly be other changes I've made that could affect this build.

Did you run autogen.sh in the mjpeg_play directory?

I'll attach my resultant configure script from the mjpeg_play directory, but I don't know if it will work on another system.

Sean.

jdiner
03-21-2005, 07:25 PM
I have the following:


libtool-libs-1.5.6-0.fdr.0.rh90
libtool-1.5.6-0.fdr.0.rh90
automake-1.7.8-0.ximian.6.3 (found on rpm.pbone.net)
autoconf-2.57-3

I believe the autoconf package is the default package that came with the RH9 install. All the others are "after market". I have added lots of new packages over the past couple of years I've been running this install. There could possibly be other changes I've made that could affect this build.

Did you run autogen.sh in the mjpeg_play directory?
Yeah. That is exactly what I was trying. I tried it on the following platforms: the latest cygwin full install, freebsd 4.5, freebsd 5.3, debian 3.0, redhat 9 (just a stock install), SUSE (an unknown version), and so on. Wouldn't process the configue.ac script on any of them. But I was focusing on the autoconf program and it looks like it might just be one of the other tools that is to blame for the issue. I am verifying what I have now of these other installs. Just seems my redhat9 should be made to work as well.


I'll attach my resultant configure script from the mjpeg_play directory, but I don't know if it will work on another system.
When you just download the real release it comes with the configure script. My understanding is that it can be used but I don't know. That is why I wanted to try and get my own compile system workings.

--jdiner

jdiner
03-21-2005, 07:50 PM
I have the following:


libtool-libs-1.5.6-0.fdr.0.rh90
libtool-1.5.6-0.fdr.0.rh90
automake-1.7.8-0.ximian.6.3 (found on rpm.pbone.net)
autoconf-2.57-3

I have:

libtool-libs: (couldn't find this one.)
libtool: 1.4.3
automake: 1.6.3
autoconf: 2.57

Is there a way to use the rpm tool to find this information? I just ran the tools with --version.

--jdiner

tPeter42
03-21-2005, 08:03 PM
Is there a way to use the rpm tool to find this information? I just ran the tools with --version.

rpm -q, e.g.:

rpm -q libtool-libs
rpm -q libtool
rpm -q automake
rpm -q autoconf

jdiner
03-21-2005, 08:15 PM
rpm -q libtool-libs
rpm -q libtool
rpm -q automake
rpm -q autoconf

Ah. Thank you. I tried something similar but to no use. If fear that while I was a unix developer for many years, it was HP-UX and the earliest version of linux. Much of the latest redhat stuff I have just never used.

I am out of date on 3 of the 4. Some quite a bit. Time to upgrade. Whether that works or not I really appriciate the help and information.

--jdiner

jdiner
03-22-2005, 05:04 AM
Wow. Guess my RedHat9 was further out of date that I thought. I had to upgade the autoconf anyway to get the autom4te program to work. But once I rolled it up to 2.59.0 everything went as smoothly as it seems it was supposed to. Many thanks to dlang and especially tPeter42 for the linux help. I just wish I had asked sooner and saved myself a few days.

So on the mpeg2enc front I rebuilt it and found an issue. It wouldn't let the bitrate go high enough for what we need. So I altered conform.cc to remove the bitrate limit, makes it wildly out of spec for the format but it does seem to work.

So then I compressed with the following options:

../mjpeg_play/mpeg2enc/mpeg2enc --no-constraints -D10 -f8 -g210 -G210 -q1 -D10 -H -c --video-bitrate 19000 --video-buffer 500 -o 1.m2v 1.y4m

And surprise surprise the output quality is pretty darn good. :)

So I have to make a few changes to TyTool to account for the HD only settings on FAE editing and I will be looking for a few people to give it a solid work out. Any takers?

--jdiner

snoots
03-22-2005, 09:33 PM
I'll throw some tys at it , do you want OTA or DirecTV HD or both ?

jdiner
03-23-2005, 07:09 PM
I'll throw some tys at it , do you want OTA or DirecTV HD or both ?
Both would be good. The key to this portion is just an attempt to get things working for the re-encoding stage of the HD streams.

--jdiner

desplaines
03-25-2005, 12:12 AM
I can also do some tests if you need-let me know, any suggestions, etc.

ronnythunder
04-06-2005, 06:53 PM
I appreciate the responses to my questions, didn't mean to start such a heated discussion. :)

After looking at some various options, and doing more research on htpcnews and AVS, I decided to put together an HTPC and purchase an ATI Radeon 9600XT (128). I built my system over the weekend and it works pretty good. I installed MCE 2005 on it, and with WinDVD installed as the Mpeg decoder, I'm able to watch the Hi Def Mpeg feeds that I archived using TyTool. So I'm excited about that! And I should be able to store the files on my NAS and access them remotely.

I was also looking at ways to access the files from MCE directly from the HD10-250. I started looking at ways I could map a network drive to mfs_ftp or something so that I could directly find the files and play them. However it seems that TyShow does not play back the HD streams that TyTool spits out. At least it didn't work with my test file. It does play the standard def .ty files however. Anyone had success playing back Hi Def .ty files through Windows Media Player 10? I've got them working through MPlayer, but then that doesn't integrate to nicely with MCE.

I may well pick up a MYHD card, or something similar that's compatible with MCE in the future so that I can also record OTA shows directly (or watch them through MCE), but for now I'm just interested in the easiest way to retrieve the files from my HR10-250 from the MCE 2005 machine. Also curious to see if others have tried this solution.

-Jeremysorry, i know this is dredging up an old post that's slightly off topic, but can you expand on your experiences with this htpc and hd streams? i'm helping a friend with a massive 3.6ghz htpc using an nvidia 6800gt and mce2005, but we have lots of problems with hd streams. playing sequentially works ok for the most part, but trying to fast forward and rewind hangs the playback almost every time.

what player are you (or any of you running an htpc using hd streams) using?

thanks,

ronny

abalonepaul
04-11-2005, 09:33 PM
Alright. The problem has been found. Between 1 chunk and the next, at the 512meg mark there a bogus stream in the file. I found this in there:

Anywhere here is the uncrc, modified from unpriority, to remove those problem lines.

--jdiner

Hi Josh,

I have a ton of these files that I downloaded with Mfs_ftp. The movies stop at about 30 minutes in. The TV shows however, stop at about 24-26 minutes in.

I have tried uncrc on several of these no luck. It doesn't look like uncrc is doing anything. It runs ok, however the output file is exactly the same size as the original. They still don't play back beyond the threshold.

I am not able to compile c from source here. Is uncrc the same as unpriority? If not, can someone post a binary of unpriority. Thanks. TyTool ROCKS, Josh.

jdiner
04-12-2005, 02:09 AM
Is uncrc the same as unpriority? If not, can someone post a binary of unpriority.
No. They are not the same thing. The unpriority release contained a .exe that you can just run. It is run on the PC on files you have already downloaded that were corrupted at that time.

You can find the compiled version here:

unpriority (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=174525#post174525)

--jdiner

abalonepaul
04-13-2005, 04:38 PM
No. They are not the same thing. The unpriority release contained a .exe that you can just run. It is run on the PC on files you have already downloaded that were corrupted at that time.

You can find the compiled version here:

unpriority (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=174525#post174525)

--jdiner

Thanks, Josh. I don't know why I didn't find that version the first time. I downloaded it and tried it. I found a couple issues. First, the usage says that the output flag should be -d when it should actually be -o. After I got around that, unpriority ran fine, kind of. It runs ok and says that it found a terd. However, the output file ends at the 512 mark. The output file size is actuall 512MB. It doesn't look like it is continuing to write the rest of the file after it finds the terd.

jdiner
04-13-2005, 08:03 PM
Thanks, Josh. I don't know why I didn't find that version the first time. I downloaded it and tried it. I found a couple issues. First, the usage says that the output flag should be -d when it should actually be -o. After I got around that, unpriority ran fine, kind of. It runs ok and says that it found a terd. However, the output file ends at the 512 mark. The output file size is actuall 512MB. It doesn't look like it is continuing to write the rest of the file after it finds the terd.
Get a compiler and fix it. It has worked for everyone else.

But the key is, was, and will continue to be download things with TyTool and you just won't have such problems.

--jdiner

jdiner
04-15-2005, 02:01 AM
Alright. we have come close enough to the donation point for an HD-250 that I will make up the difference if I can get a few things lined up.

But before spending that kind of money, is it still worth it? I expect we have all seen posts about coming changes in hardware etc... So I am looking for a concensus of sorts. Still worth buying one at this point?

Second are there any HD-250 owners/users here that line in the SLC Utah area? I need some help/connections etc... So if anyone lives around here or knows someone that does then please holler.

--jdiner

dtle
04-15-2005, 12:05 PM
There has been alot of discussions of it over at AVS and Tivocommunity forum on how DirecTV might replace our box. Some suggessted like a media player or something similar.

Here are some threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=527860
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=229404&highlight=mpeg4

All I can say is that for me, I mainly record HD OTA, which does not change. So I'm holding on to my hacked HD-TIVO for as long as I can.

desplaines
04-17-2005, 04:21 PM
Josh-

It could be a couple of years or even more before DirecTV actually shuts off the existing HD satellite signals, so you just need to decide if that time period is worth the cost of the HD Tivo. When the switch to MPEG-4 happens, we will presumably get some type of large credit or free exchange to the replacement HD DVR they offer; it will probably not be a Tivo. You could always sell that box when you get it, if you want to stay with DirecTV but not their HD stuff.

Regarding connections, I do not know anyone in your area but I'm happy to help 'over the 'net' with any questions.

Hi8
04-23-2005, 11:47 AM
I'm wondering if anyone has found an easy way to batch extract parts of HDTIVO recordings?

What I'm doing, is extracting 2 parts at a time so I end up with a filesize of 1 gig each. I then multiplex to .mpg format, burn to a DVD-R (ISO) and play back on my AVeL HD Network/DVD player.(LINK) (http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVEL&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDLA&ts=2&tsc=)

This actually works quite well, I don't make any cuts; just mux & burn I have to split over 2-3 discs per movie, but it's really not aproblem. I just get flash backs to the days when I had a Laserdisc player and had to flip the HUGE disc!

I can off-load all my moives or special events to DVD-R and the quality playback iis perfect - can't tell the difference between the DVD-R and the TiVo playback.

To be more clear on my process:

I use TyTool HD Pre-Release #3 to extract "get parts" of a recording in pairs that leaves me a list of files:

MovieTitle-.ty 1,048,576 KB
MovieTitle-1.ty 1,048,576 KB
MovieTitle-2.ty 1,048,576 KB
MovieTitle-3.ty 1,048,576 KB
MovieTitle-4.ty 1,048,576 KB
MovieTitle-5.ty 1,048,576 KB
MovieTitle-6.ty 1,048,576 KB
MovieTitle-7.ty 1,048,576 KB

I then Mux - rename & Burn to DVD-R (ISO)

Disc 1
01-MovieTitle.mpg 1,048,576 KB
02-MovieTitle.mpg 1,048,576 KB
03-MovieTitle.mpg 1,048,576 KB
04-MovieTitle.mpg 1,048,576 KB

Disc 2
05-MovieTitle.mpg 1,048,576 KB
06-MovieTitle.mpg 1,048,576 KB
07-MovieTitle.mpg 1,048,576 KB
08-MovieTitle.mpg 1,048,576 KB

plop in my AVeL Player and hit play!

so back to my question, anyone know of how I could automate extract in sizes 1gig each -

or even split a large file into smaller even pieces to meet file size limitations for ISO.

??

snoots
04-23-2005, 02:03 PM
The 4-16-2005 Beta 3 version of advanced server plays back .ty files. I have only got it to work on one of my computers, the video looks good but the audio is out of sync. I have only tried SD ty files no HD yet . IO-DATA site has the new version.

Hi8
04-23-2005, 06:56 PM
The 4-16-2005 Beta 3 version of advanced server plays back .ty files. I have only got it to work on one of my computers, the video looks good but the audio is out of sync. I have only tried SD ty files no HD yet . IO-DATA site has the new version.


Thanks for the heads up... I'll check that out, however I would prefer to archive on DVD-R --- and to be quite honest, it's really not a big deal to mux to mpeg which the AVeL plays natively - via DVD.

I've been playing with a splitter from boilsoft (http://www.boilsoft.com/) that shows promise. I was able to split out a segment in the middle of an mpg created by TyTool HD PR#3 with perfect sync. more testing to folow.

bwperez
04-23-2005, 07:42 PM
I'm glad to see more people with this Player. I just started using mine and have been thrilled with the products potential. I've been working on downloading and editing the front and back of my HD Deadwood episodes. Everything appears wonderful until about 20min in when the playback starts getting choppy. I'm not doing anything fancy:

1 - Download with Tytool TyTool9r19-Pre3.
2 - Create Key file
3 - Edit beginning and End.
4 - Create Vob-Mux Files.
5 - Play through the Avel Link Server software

I need to try out a few more files, but if anyone has feedback I'd love to hear it.

jdiner
04-24-2005, 02:44 AM
I'm wondering if anyone has found an easy way to batch extract parts of HDTIVO recordings?
Yeah. I do.

PM me for details. You can be the tester on that feature if you want.

--jdiner

Hi8
04-26-2005, 06:21 AM
Yeah. I do.

PM me for details. You can be the tester on that feature if you want.

--jdiner


Thanks I have just PM'd you .

bwperez
05-01-2005, 02:11 AM
I'm glad to see more people with this Player. I just started using mine and have been thrilled with the products potential. I've been working on downloading and editing the front and back of my HD Deadwood episodes. Everything appears wonderful until about 20min in when the playback starts getting choppy. I'm not doing anything fancy:
...


If anyone is interested I was able to resolve my issue with HD Tivo VOB's created with TyTool9r19-Pre3 Avel LinkPlayer. After upgrading the firmware on the Avel Player to the April 14th version and upgrading the Avel Server Software to v 1.9b everything is working perfectly... (knocking on wood.)

Xayd
05-21-2005, 12:30 AM
Answering questions from awhile back in some cases but regarding Xboxes...

1) It's just a 733mhz P3, with 64mb of RAM and a Geforce 3. That's an Xbox, just a PC with hardware circa 2000/2001. Don't expect it to perform miracles.

2) An Xbox cannot decode and play back HD content with a watchable framerate. XBMC and XBMP are built on Mplayer with FFMpeg codecs, that's all it is: Mplayer compiled for one set of specific hardware with a very spiffy GUI. To their credit the GUI and network streaming functionality are excellent, it's by far the best media player in existence for low resolution content, but it simply does not have the horsepower to decode and playback high res HD content. From my tinkering it will try to playback anything you give it as long as Mplayer can decode the source, however if it goes beyond the Xbox's CPU and/or memory limitations it'll just be a hi res slideshow ;).

3) However what the Xbox can do is scale output (badly, I might add) to 720p or 1080i, with a simple setting. That's not the same, obviously. People reporting that they output 1080i from an Xbox are simply using the inherent ability of the Xbox and XBMC to scale low res inputs up, not playing back an HD source.

Turbo3
05-31-2005, 05:47 PM
The last episode of Desperate Housewives has the following frame/timestamp numbers:

0 12:58:15.215
...
2051 13:15:21.740 Wraps here.
2052 00:00:00.732
...
7435 00:44:54.924

I can place cuts at all the right places to remove the commercials but the cut list is sorted by timestamp so my first cut from 13:10:46.966 to 13:14:20.179 gets placed at the end of the cut list instead of at the start. The editor does not seem to understand that the timestamps have wrapped and can not jump back to any cut point that is less than 12:58:15.215.

The editor should better handle wrapped timestamps.

The make VOB-Mux program also has trouble handling cut lists with wrapped timestamps and crashed creating only a small vob with incorrect cuts.

Has this been fixed in a yet to be released version? I am using Pre-Release #3. I can test any new versions to see if it is really fixed.

Thanks for a great program!!!

Turbo3

jdiner
06-02-2005, 03:02 AM
The last episode of Desperate Housewives has the following frame/timestamp numbers:

0 12:58:15.215
...
2051 13:15:21.740 Wraps here.
2052 00:00:00.732
...
7435 00:44:54.924
Hummm. Now see that should have been handled the same way as all of the other PTS resets are. Something odd must have happened but at the moment I have no idea what. Do you still have the source Ty stream?

--jdiner

Turbo3
06-02-2005, 05:37 PM
Yes, I still have the original .ty file and the program is still on my HDTivo. I don't have the Hard Disk I saved it on with me today but I think the original size was 5-6GB so I would need to send it to you on an old hard disk. If you would like me to run any type of extraction/analysis program against it I can do that for you too. I am in San Jose CA.

Is there any way to split the large .ty file up to fit on two DVDs?

On a different subject: I just got back from visiting IOData to show them the problems their AvelLink player has playing tytools generated HD DVDs and playing DVD images saved on a USB attached hard disk. Bottom line is that the HD DVDs don't play (image is not stable but sound is ok) but the player can play HD .vob files saved to the USB hard drive. They need to improve how they handle the .IFO file from an HD DVD and add support of .IFO files for the USB port. The problem with playing the .vob files from the USB hard drive is that the player treats all the .vobs as a play list and there is a 2 second delay as it process the next .vob file. So they don't currently support play a DVD image from the USB port. When they fix these problems I will make a posting.

Turbo3
06-13-2005, 02:52 AM
Running Make Key file against an 11.5GB HD .ty file ends after processing only 4 GB. Message given is "End of Stream flag found...' I think this flag should be ignored by the make key file routine so a complete key file can be generated for the entire 11.5 GB file. Yes I still have this and all the other ty files I have or will report problems with.

jdiner
06-13-2005, 04:52 PM
Running Make Key file against an 11.5GB HD .ty file ends after processing only 4 GB. Message given is "End of Stream flag found...' I think this flag should be ignored by the make key file routine so a complete key file can be generated for the entire 11.5 GB file. Yes I still have this and all the other ty files I have or will report problems with.
I was testing a few things. That code is incomplete. More to come.

What you can do for now, if it must be processed now, is "jump" around that EOF flag and start processing at the next chunk.

--jdiner

Turbo3
06-29-2005, 06:34 PM
I have another OTA HD program that wraps the timestamp within three minutes of the end of the program. I was able to edit out all the commercials since they were before the timestamp wrap but when I created a DVD image and played it the audio cut out just at the wrap point. The video was fine just no sound.

Is this fixed in your yet to be released next version?

I have also noticed on really long HD movies that have VOBs in the 8,9,10,11 range that PowerDVD 5 dies somewhere up at the high VOB numbers. If I just make a play list of only the VOB files (instead of selecting play dvd on disk) it plays just fine but has the momentary pauses at the next VOB file is read in by PowerDVD. WinDVD seems to have the same problem with these higher VOB numbers. Anyone having the same problem with 2 hour plus HD movies?

Turbo3

Turbo3
06-29-2005, 07:57 PM
A little more information on the problem.

PowerDVD 5 actually crashes at the point it needs to read in VTS_01_10.VOB in module clnavx.ax at offset 0002c865. When you have more than 9 VOB files the name generated is not in the old 8.3 format. You get 9 characters in the name part which is probably what is causing the crash.

Any suggestions for a work around?

Looks like I may need to split the large movies into two parts even when playing them from the hard disk. Or is there some option we can add to get the dvdauthor program tytool uses to work around this problem?

Turbo3

Turbo3
06-29-2005, 08:27 PM
It seems that VTS_01_10.VOB and higher are not allowed in the DVD Specification. It has been suggested that increasing the maximum size of the VOB from 1 to 2 GB might solve this problem. This would allow a maximum movie size of 18 GB instead of 9 GB.

Is it possible to get a test version with an option to allow 2GB VOB files assuming that the dvdauthoring program supports such a feature? Or it could be auto enabled if the input vob file is greater than 9 GB.

Turbo3

mateom199
07-01-2005, 12:54 AM
It seems that VTS_01_10.VOB and higher are not allowed in the DVD Specification. It has been suggested that increasing the maximum size of the VOB from 1 to 2 GB might solve this problem. This would allow a maximum movie size of 18 GB instead of 9 GB.

Is it possible to get a test version with an option to allow 2GB VOB files assuming that the dvdauthoring program supports such a feature? Or it could be auto enabled if the input vob file is greater than 9 GB.

Turbo3

I must be missing something, but why would you want a DVD over 9 GB? At that size, it will not fit on any DVD-+R/W's, so your only choice is really a computer. So why not just keep it as a single file instead of creating VOBs and the rest of the DVD structure?

jdiner
07-01-2005, 02:17 AM
I must be missing something, but why would you want a DVD over 9 GB? At that size, it will not fit on any DVD-+R/W's, so your only choice is really a computer. So why not just keep it as a single file instead of creating VOBs and the rest of the DVD structure?
My thoughts exactly. There is nothing I can do to work around the DVD specs. I believe the limit was set to 9 because at 9gig it was just plain huge given the sizes prior to that.

--jdiner

Turbo3
07-01-2005, 06:44 PM
The AvelLink player's USB hard drive support is currently limited to FAT32 formatted drives which means that VOBs larger than 4 GB are not allowed. So I need to keep VOBs below that limit. When and if they get a license from MS for NTFS and release new firmware for the player I can revisit this issue. I only burn DVDs for backup and selecting groups of 1GB vobs to burn to multiple DVDs is simple to do in Nero. I would have to look into a program that can copy a single large VOB (5-15GB) to multiple DVDs which I currently don't know exists but probably does. I would also have to have this program around in the future to copy the DVDs back into a single file on a hard drive. It is a step I would like to avoid if possible. Currently I burn two to three DVDs per movie and keep the .ty files on the hard disk. To restore the movie from the DVDs is just a matter of copying all the files from each DVD to a single folder on a hard drive. This can be done at any time without the need for any special restore program.

I use the AvelLink Player so I do not need to power up a PC in the viewing area (much less noise, faster power up, and no mouse or keyboard needed).

Anyway back to the problem and its solution. I first tried XCOPY since the help clearly states you can append files by using the format "XCOPY file1+file2+file3 outfile". However, that did not work for me. It just gave a message saying it could not find file "file1+file2+file3" and does not seem to understand the meaning of the plus sign. Using "XCOPY file* outfile" seems to work for file1 but when it gets to file2 it asks if you want to overwrite outfile so it does not really support append.

I then wrote a very simple and fast append program to copy VOB 9 and VOB 10 into VOB 9 making VOB 9 1.6GB. At first PowerDVD crashed with the same error message as before. I then noticed an old tmp.VOB file left over from my XCOPY attempts and once I erased it the movie played just fine all the way to the ending credits. Even chapter skips worked and the correct movie time was displayed. So all is well now.

At this point less than 10% of the movies exceed the 9 VOB limit so I have no trouble doing the combining myself of the last few VOBs into larger ones to keep below 10 VOBs. There is no need to change the way tytools interacts with the dvd authoring program. Especially if the dvd authoring program has no way to increase the default VOB size from 1 to 2 GB.

Only PowerDVD 5 handled the larger VOB. WinDVD 4 stopped when it got to the larger VOB file. The AvelLink player currently only supports playing VOBs (not a DVD image, IFO...) so it should have no problem with the 1.6GB file.

My remaining issue is the timestamp wrap problem. I don't know if this will be fixed in a future version of tytools and I see it a lot in OTA HD shows. I might look into writing a preprocessor program that scans the .ty file and normalizes the timestamp by starting at zero and removing any large jumps in time to keep it from wrapping. Does this sound doable?

I am trying to use a consistant/simple/fast approach to how I process shows from my DTivos whether the shows are standard definition or HD, 500MB to 15GB ty files. I create a key file, edit out commercials if any and clip the start and end, capture a video frame from the start for the DVD menu background, add in chapter points if appropriate, create VOB, create DVD image, check image with PowerDVD. I now need to add a step if there are more than 9 VOB and do combining to reduce the number (not a problem, just a simple step). I then use Nero to burn either a single DVD or select groups of files to fit on multiple DVDs. I then erase all the working files except for the original ty and cut file and move them to the DONE folder and save away the DVDs. Even with these steps it is hard to keep up with the 100's of GB of material flowing in from the tivos. If the show fits all on one DVD that DVD is playable on a PC using PowerDVD/WinDVD or I can copy it to a hard drive and play it on the AvelLink. If the show takes multiple DVDs then I need to copy all the files on the DVDs to a hard drive and connect it to my AvelLink Player to watch. I also have the option of taking the USB drive to my Dad's place and watching the shows there since he also has an AvelLink player.

As always tytools is a great program and we owe the author a debt of gratitude for taking on the challenge of writing and support it. The program only gets better.

Turbo3

Guardian69
07-07-2005, 12:38 AM
Ok, so I have been reading for many pages, then skipped to the end. From the first pages, I have to say, I think based on a 58 page thread, the HD10-250 should get it's own Category as well..

I really like this site, has good information in it. New to it, as I just got the HD10-250 and though I am familiar with HD, and forums, Tivo is very new, and a lot of the threads I have been trying to research are SO outdated.

Q1. Can someone please summarize the latest information on Video Extraction from this unit, to a PC in it's uncompressed format (This is one thing I am confused on, this TY format? I am used to .TS formats from OTA HD cards, could use a bit of clarity there as well) I know it's through USB2.0 Ethernet, and have read about hacking to change out the drives, etc, but have downloaded lots of files that I am afraid are for older tivo boxes and not a HD10 with the newest .f version.

Q2. Have read everything on tivocommunity, but it's pretty worthless now for the extraction. If anyone has any nice updated links or how-to's for the HD10-250 for Extraction, I would like to read, learn, and do, just these 58 pages, seem to keep veering off target a bit. Also can give my feedback once this is done.

Thanks, don't think I broke any rules, if so appologies.
G.

PeterGriffin
07-07-2005, 03:47 AM
just to stay on topic ;) it's perfectly feasable to do "Video extraction from the new HD10-250 " directly to usb connected storage or another *nix box acting as NAS


I have a question. I have an hd tivo I'm contemplating hacking. My question is, can I extract standard definition programs from the hd tivo and insert them onto a dvr40 and vice versa?

desplaines
07-07-2005, 03:49 AM
Guardian-

There is really not a 'summary of information' for HD-Tivo hacking... looking for one is kind of like meeting a rock musician at a concert and asking 'can you tell me how to do what you do?'. (You really need to 'pay your dues' and study lots of stuff.) The nearest thing is to look for the Yahoo Group for the HD Tivo-it may help you.

tPeter42
07-07-2005, 12:25 PM
The Yahoo! group can be found here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hdtivo/

There is a step-by-step HOW-TO in the files section. Get the one in the Temp_HOWTO_update_files directory named "HDTIVO MOD HOW TO rev 3-9-1.zip"

Guardian69
07-07-2005, 04:10 PM
The Yahoo! group can be found here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hdtivo/

There is a step-by-step HOW-TO in the files section. Get the one in the Temp_HOWTO_update_files directory named "HDTIVO MOD HOW TO rev 3-9-1.zip"
Sweet! thanks, that is what I was looking for. There is just so much junk, I didn't know which was the newest versions.

You guys rock, I really wish Tivocommunity had something on hacking, as that site talks alot about the HR10, just nothing very valuable (to me at least :))

UPDATE: Even Newer Today!
HDTIVO MOD HOW TO rev 4.0.doc Again Thanks for the Link!

JustDan
07-12-2005, 12:56 PM
Just a heads up in case HD-Tivo owners haven't been following the
Series2 support threads. Using Jamie's latest USB tools with
SMC gigabit switches I am up to 5.4Mb/s during extraction....

nams
07-12-2005, 01:40 PM
Just a heads up in case HD-Tivo owners haven't been following the
Series2 support threads. Using Jamie's latest USB tools with
SMC gigabit switches I am up to 5.4Mb/s during extraction....

How is your insertion speed?

JustDan
07-12-2005, 06:31 PM
I'm only interested in extraction, so I have no idea if a similar improvement
occurs for insertion

Trev
08-09-2005, 02:17 AM
It's been quiet here for almost a month. After reading through the thread, it appears that the current version remains at PreRelease3. A couple questions for Jdiner. I have a 30min HD program as a test. I used standard mux, not (new format) and used the files included with Tyool 9r18. I later read in another thread about HD-mpeg2enc.zip. So have I made a mistake in the Tytool folder?
Is the step by step process any different from the method for stand def?

Secondly, have you gotten your HR10-250? They are selling on ebay for under $500 these days at best.

Thanks

Trev
08-10-2005, 12:17 AM
Ah! More careful reading. I was looking for HD conversion into DVD playback. I see now that's not the intent of this version of Tytool. In that case, it working just fine.

jdiner
08-10-2005, 03:58 PM
I just moved to Salt Lake City proper. I plan to get the HDTivo in the next 2 weeks and start getting things working correctly.

So having said that I need advice the HD experts present here. What all is needed for OTA? I assume another "special" antenna. Is anyone willing to fill in the blanks?

--jdiner

Rowan
08-10-2005, 04:09 PM
I assume another "special" antenna. Is anyone willing to fill in the blanks?
--jdiner

Well some people will tell you that you need one but I am using my old Radio Shack antenna that I have had for about 15 years (in the attic) and it works great and all my signal strengths are in the high 90's.

fixn278
08-10-2005, 04:12 PM
I just moved to Salt Lake City proper. I plan to get the HDTivo in the next 2 weeks and start getting things working correctly.

So having said that I need advice the HD experts present here. What all is needed for OTA? I assume another "special" antenna. Is anyone willing to fill in the blanks?

--jdiner

Most HD channels are UHF (some may be high-VHF). Any UHF antenna will work, but you generally need to be in the right range as far as distance. Antennaweb.org can tell you which antenna is appropriate for your location.

jdiner
08-10-2005, 04:33 PM
Alright. Looks like I can get several OTA channels. Should be nice to get multiple streams all on my own and see what long term they all look like.

Yellow seems to be most of them with a couple of digital channels in the green band.

--jdiner

fixn278
08-10-2005, 06:11 PM
Alright. Looks like I can get several OTA channels. Should be nice to get multiple streams all on my own and see what long term they all look like.

Yellow seems to be most of them with a couple of digital channels in the green band.

--jdiner

A good UHF/VHF amp helps too if you are in a "fringe" area.

moshmothma
08-11-2005, 11:42 AM
Hey fellas, could someone help me with the link to where the Tytool HD alpha and beta binaries reside? Having some problems digging through this thread to find them? Thanks

Rowan
08-11-2005, 12:15 PM
Hey fellas, could someone help me with the link to where the Tytool HD alpha and beta binaries reside? Having some problems digging through this thread to find them? Thanks

Look at the TYTool 9r18 sticky thread the first few post have the binaries.

dtle
08-11-2005, 03:36 PM
I just moved to Salt Lake City proper. I plan to get the HDTivo in the next 2 weeks and start getting things working correctly.

So having said that I need advice the HD experts present here. What all is needed for OTA? I assume another "special" antenna. Is anyone willing to fill in the blanks?

--jdiner

If you don't already know, the avsforum have threads dedicated to HDTV receptions for each metro are. The SLC thread is here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=418646)

fginneba
08-19-2005, 02:18 AM
QUick FYI, it seems that the HDTivo units have just come WAY down in price.

Jdiner, this might be just what you were looking for!

Check it out!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=569538&page=2&pp=30&highlight=yearly+projector+use

ompjr
09-20-2005, 02:43 PM
Look at the TYTool 9r18 sticky thread the first few post have the binaries.

Is there a link somewhere for 9r19Pre-3 (the latest I've seen cited)? I can't find it to try..

desplaines
10-05-2005, 08:23 PM
The 9r19pre3 file link is in this topic (extraction from HR10-250) I am pretty sure, but you may have to page backwards through this topic to find it.

jdiner
10-06-2005, 02:23 AM
Alright boys and girls. Movement at long last.

I went to the Best Buy and bought myself an HDTivo this morning.

Still in the box. I can take it back if need be but I doubt it will happen. Thought I would ping things in here and make sure that is still interest in getting TyTool working properly with HD streams. And is it still the box to buy. The MPEG-4 boxes seem to be more than far enough on the horizon to make it worth doing at this point.

I also need to get a really good OTA antenna setup so I can pull both kinds of streams. But once I get it all hooked up things should get moving quickly and get done.

So sound off one way or the other and I will either get it setup and ready to roll or I will get it packed back to the store to turn back in. They had only 1 left, claimed they were getting no more ?!!?, and I didn't want to miss it etc...

Thanks,
--jdiner

jdiner
10-06-2005, 02:29 AM
Woah. Went to the thread posted and they talked about a new dish and a new HDTivo etc... All starting in about 2 weeks. Is that really the case? Anyone know? I suppose I could always just take this one back and wait a bit. It would explain the "we aren't getting anymore" comment.

--jdiner

cheer
10-06-2005, 09:27 AM
In the 12 largest markets, MPEG4 will start being used for HD locals in November. Other markets will follow later.

However, everything I've read suggests that the HD DVR won't be out until next spring at the earliest -- and who knows if it will be hackable. I for one would love to see TyTool support of the HD stuff; I get most of my HD OTA anyway.

kemac
10-06-2005, 10:38 AM
So sound off one way or the other --jdiner

I vote for keeping the HVTivo! If you do keep it thanks in advance for your efforts!

captain_video
10-06-2005, 10:55 AM
I don't know about the HVTivo (High-Voltage reception?) but I'd definitely keep the HDTivo. ;) I've got three of them myself and get most of my HD programming via OTA antenna. I'm right between Baltimore and DC and have two Channel Master UHF bowtie antennas pointed at each set of broadcast towers with a signal combiner between them and a 4-way Monster Cable wideband (2GHz) splitter to feed the HDTivos. Even if DTV comes out with the mpeg4 models down the road you'll still be able to use the HDTivo for OTA reception indefinitely.

tPeter42
10-06-2005, 12:26 PM
In the 12 largest markets, MPEG4 will start being used for HD locals in November. Other markets will follow later.

However, everything I've read suggests that the HD DVR won't be out until next spring at the earliest -- and who knows if it will be hackable. I for one would love to see TyTool support of the HD stuff; I get most of my HD OTA anyway.

I'm going to want the HMC when it comes out, but that probably won't be out for a while still. I think it will be at least a couple of years before DirecTV changes the current HD sat channels over to mpg4, but that's only speculation. I also mostly record OTA. Therefore, I expect to get at least another 1.5 - 2 years out of my HDTiVo. I would certainly appreciate anything you do to make TyTools better for HD streams.

Thanks.

Turbo3
10-06-2005, 01:21 PM
Yes, please continue to work on getting Tytools to work with HDTivo streams. Timecode wrap around is one of my biggest problems with OTA shows. I have just hacked my second HDTivo (Best Buy 50% off with $50 rebate from Directv, but I guess you can do better now direct from Directv). There is no way to know if the future replacement (MPEG4 version) will ever allow extraction.

RockL
10-06-2005, 01:22 PM
I agree with what other have said here. The HD-Tivo is definitely worth hanging on to, especially at the reduced price points. I have two of them and live in Atlanta, one of the first markets to offer HD locals via MP4 next month. My off the air antenna setup has worked well for several years so the idea of HD-locals over satellite doesn't do much for me... On the other hand, the idea of better HD stream tytool support is excellent!

ayeayeaye
10-06-2005, 01:58 PM
SLC is not in the first batch of MPEG4-local-HD markets, it should be state of the art for your market for at least a year. Highly recommended.

jdiner
10-06-2005, 04:31 PM
Yes, please continue to work on getting Tytools to work with HDTivo streams. Timecode wrap around is one of my biggest problems with OTA shows. I have just hacked my second HDTivo (Best Buy 50% off with $50 rebate from Directv, but I guess you can do better now direct from Directv). There is no way to know if the future replacement (MPEG4 version) will ever allow extraction.
So now... How did you get it for half off at Best Buy? And is it repeatable. I had thought I was getting a good deal but in reading of the TC threads and then these comments I begin to wonder if I was actually did. Sad that.

--jdiner

tPeter42
10-06-2005, 04:38 PM
So now... How did you get it for half off at Best Buy? And is it repeatable. I had thought I was getting a good deal but in reading of the TC threads and then these comments I begin to wonder if I was actually did. Sad that.

--jdiner

I think the best deal for a little while was the $299 - $100 rebate from customer retention with an additional 2 year commitment. That deal is over though. I don't know about the Best Buy deals though. I bought mine for $1000 from Best Buy over a year ago, but I don't regret it one bit :)

jdiner
10-06-2005, 04:47 PM
I think the best deal for a little while was the $299 - $100 rebate from customer retention with an additional 2 year commitment. That deal is over though. I don't know about the Best Buy deals though. I bought mine for $1000 from Best Buy over a year ago, but I don't regret it one bit :)
The deal I found was best buy $599 with $100 MIR. So I bought it. Today in my email I had a coupon for 10% off on one thing there. This included the tivo stuff. So I am going to take it back tomorrow and re-buy it with the extra 10% off. But I will hang onto it.

Someone awhile back sent me a few links on good OTA antennas. It will have to sit on my very small deck at the apartment which while open on 1 side is relatively enclosed. I have seen ads and other things for internal/attic style antennas. Figure something like that should work pretty well in this case. I am in central SLC so not far from anywhere the signal would be decent.

Any recommendations from the masses here in this thread as to what antenna to get? Just so darn new to the world of HD that I have no clue where to even start. :(

--jdiner

dfad1469
10-06-2005, 05:03 PM
jdinder,

Just go to http://www.antennaweb.org and put in your info. It will tell you
everything you need to know about the local channels in your area.

BTW. Great program you have created! Use it quite a bit. If you ever need
someone to work on the linux port and/or interface redesign, let me know.
I am an experience programmer in both.

-J

snoots
10-06-2005, 05:53 PM
I just got my second one at the reduced price with rebate from retention. The MPEG 4 machine is not looming on the horizon. They told me on the phone when I ordered the 2nd HD machine that it would be "quite some time" before they could swap out all the MPEG2 systems in place at this time and it would be only done after the number of MPEG4 sats in orbit was sufficient and that they were onliine and working properly. So please keep working on the current HD Tivo and OTA stuff. The rep also told me that the OTA function would still work even after the MPEG4 conversion.

*** note this info came from a retention person and could be totally bogus.

jdiner
10-06-2005, 06:24 PM
Just go to http://www.antennaweb.org and put in your info. It will tell you everything you need to know about the local channels in your area.
Ah ha. That was the web site I went to before. I have a bunch of yellow and 1 blue. All of them are at 245 degress except the CBS which is at 227.

Alright. So where do I go to find an proper antenna? This site talks about features but does not seem to have much in the way of pointer to what is recommended or where to buy...

--jdiner

jdiner
10-06-2005, 06:27 PM
Hummm. So from what was posted here recently, read last time I asked this question, I find comments that a good "uhf/vhf antenna is really all I should need"...

Alright. Were does one look for such a beast? The Rat Shack? Best Buy? Staples? Sorry to sound like should a noob when it comes to this, but well I am and I am hoping to start going through some serious HD stuff this weekend. I need a break from the paying work and TyTool has always done good job at that for me.

Thanks,
--jdiner

Turbo3
10-06-2005, 06:34 PM
I bought the second HDTivo on 6/15/05 at Best Buy using a special little blue coupon book you had to ask for or find in the store. The front page actually said "FREE Coupon Book when you buy any TV 19" & up." But people were able to get it just by asking or finding it laying around. The book had one coupon that was for 50% off any Tivo hardware. You had to find a clerk and supervisor who would override the price on the HDTivo since the register would not take it off. You also got a $50 rebate by sending in your first Directv bill. I just sent in the next one I got even though I have still not activated the second HDTivo. Turns out you can move shows from an activated HDTivo to an hacked non-activated one with mfs_ftp.

tPeter42
10-06-2005, 06:44 PM
Hummm. So from what was posted here recently, read last time I asked this question, I find comments that a good "uhf/vhf antenna is really all I should need"...

Alright. Were does one look for such a beast? The Rat Shack? Best Buy? Staples? Sorry to sound like should a noob when it comes to this, but well I am and I am hoping to start going through some serious HD stuff this weekend. I need a break from the paying work and TyTool has always done good job at that for me.

Thanks,
--jdiner

At my old house I used a Rat Shack VHF/UHF antenna and it worked great. Then I moved to a place where the reception isn't as good so I got a Channel Master 4228 which is does a good job. It's pretty big, but flat. It's also pretty directionally sensitive. It might be too big for an apartment balcony.

Actually, I'm pretty sure all UHF antennas are directional. Hope you can angle it correctly from your balcony.

dtle
10-06-2005, 06:51 PM
For outdoor antennas, Rat Shack is a perfect place to get them, because the antennas come with the same color-coded pie chart that you see on antennaweb.org.

For indoor antennas, I have heard good things about the Zenith Silver Sensor. Unfortunately, it's only for UHF, so you can't get any digital channels from 1 to 13.

tPeter42
10-06-2005, 06:54 PM
On second thought, maybe you should get a crappy antenna so you can make TyTool handle signal loss really well ;) You aren't planning on watching any of the HD content you're recording anyway, right :D

jdiner
10-06-2005, 07:13 PM
No me intention was not to watch them. Just to record a ton of them from each of the channels, extract, process and watch for bugs and other things to crop up. I might get "converted" once I get it all working. But I love being able to put "lots of things onto DVD" a little too much to give it up at the moment. :)

--jdiner

desplaines
10-06-2005, 10:45 PM
I also think you should keep the HD Tivo. In my case, though, I extract very little OTA HD from it because I have computers for that purpose, and 9r19Pre3 has worked very well for me for quite a while as-is, for satellite HD movies.

Any recommendations from the masses here in this thread as to what antenna to get? Just so darn new to the world of HD that I have no clue where to even start. :(

--jdiner
Whatever you do, do not buy a Terk antenna. Again, do not buy an antenna made by Terk.

Are all of your digital stations on UHF (channels 14 or higher)? If so, I have also heard nothing but good reports about the Zenith Silver Sensor. UHF-TV signals in general are more sensitive to disruption from 'someone walking near the antenna' than VHF, so definitely put the antenna on your balcony (or attic) if possible. The Zenith is an indoor antenna but may be OK on an enclosed deck. Otherwise, Radio Shack is a good place to look mainly because you can return anything there that does not work well, with no 'restocking' charge. Did I mention that you should definitely not buy a "Terk" brand antenna? :D


No me intention was not to watch them. Just to record a ton of them from each of the channels, extract, process and watch for bugs and other things to crop up. I might get "converted" once I get it all working. But I love being able to put "lots of things onto DVD" a little too much to give it up at the moment. :)

--jdiner
If you really get "converted" and hooked on HD, you can put HD on DVDs too, but you will need to get a computer connected to whatever HD display you end up using (which is another whole subject), or there are a couple of stand-alone DVD/ data disc players that can play HD video data files onto an HDTV like a 'normal' DVD player. Most satellite HD movies fit onto either two or three DVD+R discs.

jdiner
10-07-2005, 01:24 AM
So what is wrong with a Terk antenna? Must be something pretty bad to warrant that kind of a reaction...

--jdiner

cheer
10-07-2005, 08:13 AM
At my old house I used a Rat Shack VHF/UHF antenna and it worked great. Then I moved to a place where the reception isn't as good so I got a Channel Master 4228 which is does a good job. It's pretty big, but flat. It's also pretty directionally sensitive. It might be too big for an apartment balcony.

Actually, I'm pretty sure all UHF antennas are directional. Hope you can angle it correctly from your balcony.
The problem with the CM is that it's UHF-only, isn't it?

JD: check out the HDTV local reception thread over at avsforum.com for your area. Pretty much every metro area in the US has at least one dedicated thread, and you'll see experiences from people who live near you. You can also ask for options and, boy howdy, you'll get them. I went there some time back for help with Chicago OTA and got great advice.

--chris

cheer
10-07-2005, 08:14 AM
So what is wrong with a Terk antenna? Must be something pretty bad to warrant that kind of a reaction...

--jdiner
Pricey and not very good. You'll pay way more than you should and get way less than you want in terms of performance.

toyotafan
10-07-2005, 11:34 AM
Keep the HD-Tivo. It will be a long time before we see an MP4 HD-DVR. Everyone here really appreciates your efforts on hdtytool. I use it all the time for extracting files.

I'm about 30 miles from the broadcast towers and use a channelmaster 4248.

TechFarmer
10-07-2005, 06:45 PM
Keep the HD-Tivo. It will be a long time before we see an MP4 HD-DVR. Everyone here really appreciates your efforts on hdtytool. I use it all the time for extracting files.

Agreed. I'd love to see continuing support for HD tivos. That's all I have now and I do quite a bit of archiving.

bgrubb1
10-08-2005, 06:17 PM
I would love to see continued development on the hd as well. Use it all the time
..Barry

jdiner
10-08-2005, 10:42 PM
Alright. Did a bunch of searching and what not. The best current deal seems to be the one I got. Kind of sad as it isn't that great a deal. :( At least not compared to what some had said on here.

Anyway, I have one now. Things should pick up pace a bit with HD Development once I get it all setup. Didn't realize I was going to need a 3LNB dish on top of the rest of this. The cost does concern me. There is now a 2 year commitment to service with these. When I got my last "new" tivo it was 1 year. And apparently I can't put anymore on my account. I have 5 currently registered on the one account and they got real grumpy when I talked about adding another one on the phone with them just now. So it looks like a different plan might be required just for that.

Anyone know what the deal there really is? What is the limit on receivers with DTV? Anyone have more than 5 and not have any trouble with DTV?

--jdiner

Tivoitis
10-09-2005, 02:06 AM
Anyone know what the deal there really is? What is the limit on receivers with DTV? Anyone have more than 5 and not have any trouble with DTV?
I started with 5 receivers on one of those intro deals, then I added on an HR10-250 a couple of months into the initial contract. I think that re-extended the contract for a full year, but they certainly didn't give me any problems. I've had 6 receivers total for more than a year by now.

I'd also like to add my thanks for the great work done on TyTool! :D

fixn278
10-09-2005, 05:52 AM
Anyone know what the deal there really is? What is the limit on receivers with DTV? Anyone have more than 5 and not have any trouble with DTV?

--jdiner

I have 8 now, but at one point, I had 9.

jdiner
10-10-2005, 12:20 PM
I have 8 now, but at one point, I had 9.
Really. And they didn't give you a hard time? I had the person I was speaking to want to know what "we were doing with that many receivers". When I mentioned I live alone she felt it was ridiculous and basically hung up on me.

Kind of wierd...

Oh ugh... They have updated the forum software again. The keyboard navigation is all off now. Well at least different.

--jdiner

peterd
10-10-2005, 07:22 PM
Josh -

Just a quick post to say that once you start using the HR10-250, you will not regret keeping it. (I can't go back to standard definition TV any more!)

And, many thanks for all your work on TyTool (especially HD)!

captain_video
10-11-2005, 03:54 PM
There shouldn't be any limit on the number of receivers you have on your DTV account. I currently have three HDTivos, one SD DTivo, and two SD DTV receivers. I've had several more receivers on the account in the past and for a while I was adding and deleting DTivos on the account on a weekly basis and never had any problems when making the changes. If the CSR gives you any grief then hang up and call back to find one that's more agreeable.

jdiner
10-12-2005, 06:06 PM
I've had several more receivers on the account in the past and for a while I was adding and deleting DTivos on the account on a weekly basis and never had any problems when making the changes. If the CSR gives you any grief then hang up and call back to find one that's more agreeable.
That is what I did. Just called back till I got a nice friendly girl and amazingly enough there were no more problems. Sad that their customer service is that bad. But whatever.

Now onto other subjects. I talked to my management group for my apartment. No outside antennas on the decks at the place. None. No exceptions. So I have to do one inside. Hopefully the internal "in the house" antennas will work for the yellow signals. I doubt it will work as well but hopefully it will work at all.

Also just found out that given the way I bought it I had to go out and buy a seperate dish. Ah well. The bidding on ebay never ends... :)

Anyone of you with multiple HDTivos have a spare dish they want to sell? Since I have to buy one anyway I may as well work a deal with someone here as with someone on ebay...

--jdiner

Snoopy4
10-12-2005, 08:21 PM
Now onto other subjects. I talked to my management group for my apartment. No outside antennas on the decks at the place. None. No exceptions. So I have to do one inside. Hopefully the internal "in the house" antennas will work for the yellow signals. I doubt it will work as well but hopefully it will work at all.

just fyi, i live less than a mile from towers and get only 2 OTA channels with an indoor antenna...have tried 2 different ones and ended up returning both, very lame. As for them being disrupted by walking by them yes, but in my case the reception improved when i stood near it...it was hard to watch tv from that angle though. so my experience with the indoor ones is they suck (and the samsung one came highly recommended)..it could just be that my place has lead in the walls or something though...


Anyone of you with multiple HDTivos have a spare dish they want to sell? Since I have to buy one anyway I may as well work a deal with someone here as with someone on ebay...

i have an extra one that is yours if you want it...sent you a PM about this.

-george

jdiner
10-13-2005, 02:42 PM
just fyi, i live less than a mile from towers and get only 2 OTA channels with an indoor antenna...have tried 2 different ones and ended up returning both, very lame.
Oh man. That is not good news as I seriously can't put one of the standard ones up outside. At least not one of the normal looking ones. Going to have to see what options for an outside antenna there really are then.

I should be in business this coming week if all goes as expected. Progress in getting this stuff working better should follow shortly after that.

--jdiner

twinc
10-13-2005, 03:06 PM
I've got a radio shack antenna in the attic above my garage and it recieves all the OTA channels without a problem... I'm probably 35-50 miles away from the towers, and the face of the house is brick... so your mileage may very.

Good luck!

jdiner
10-18-2005, 12:11 AM
I have gotten the new dish and the new HDTivo. Got the dish out and put together and ready to setup when I noticed they went the way of the Dish Network equip. Which kind of sucks but...

The LNB is now a 3 unit package that has 4 coax-connectors on it. The manual that came with it shows 1 receiver per wire. Well I will have 3 tivos in the exact same room. Almost the same spot. I don't want to have to string extra wires through the walls so I need a switchbox to turn 2 wires into 6. In thinking about it I am not sure it is even possible to do that. Might have to be 4 wires in the end. 2 to the HDTivo and 2 into a switch box for the normal equipment. Ugh. I have enough wires in my entertainment center to choke a horse as it is.

So the general question is: do any of you know of one that is aware of all of the new LNB setup and will work for both standard DTivos (series 1 and 2) and an HDTivo at the same time? And, I suppose, if it exists at all.

And I suppose the obvious for someone as new as me to this space, how do they work?

Thanks,
--jdiner

dfad1469
10-18-2005, 02:30 AM
First, the apartment compex cannot stop you from putting an antenna on your balcony per FCC rules:

http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html

At least the fcc is good for something. Failing that isn't there an antenna that clips onto your satellite dish? Have you looked into that? Looks like the Terk TV44 is what you are looking for:

http://www.terk.com/products.html#

Just a couple of thoughts....

dtle
10-20-2005, 04:48 PM
jdiner,

You could've gotten away with 2 wires if you didn't have the HD-TIVO. However, because of the extra sats that the HD channels reside, you gonna need 4 wires running into your room. After that, you can get a 4x8 (or 5x8) multiplexer/switch to get the additional outputs to your 3 TIVOs (and still have two outputs left for another TIVO).

Here's a FAQ: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55509

This switch indicates that it will work with the intergrated multiplexer on the dish:
http://www.hometech.com/video/dssmulti.html#TE-BMS58

And yes, you can also hook up the way you suggested, but the regular TIVO will not able to see the channels (Para Todos, NASA, etc) on the extra sats.
Here's a good diagram of it:
http://feldoncentral.com/TiVo/direcTVmultiswitchHDTiVo2x4.gif

jdiner
10-21-2005, 01:50 PM
In the end that was almost exactly how I had wired it. Not what I wanted to do but I realized when I stopped to think about it that there was little hope of getting everything onto 2 wires. So I did the same old 3x8 multi-switch into the LNB package and then ran 2 wires straight to the HDTivo. So far so good.

It was quite a bit hard to point the triple dish to the sats accurately. I had 100% on the main regional transponder and way below 30 on the others. Then after swinging the dish MUCH further than expected. (rather than a fraction of an inch it took more like 3 inches to get it pointed nicely at all 3.)

So I finally have sat and HDTivo hooked up to discover I was getting nothing on my TV. Hit the little button on the front to change to 480i mode and it was back.

Ok. I mentioned it before but... my TV is a 15 or so year old JVC. Might just have been time for an upgrade anyway but given what I am now seeing, that I need something way better than S-Video for this box to even talk to the TV in the HD modes. I figure it has become something of a necessity. I haven't tried it yet to see if shows in the higher resolutions will display properly on a TV when in that mode.

So while I don't necessarily think this is the right place to ask or have such a discussion I am looking for advice on a TV/Projector/??? to upgrade too. What works best etc... If I am going to get much done on TyTool weekend which has been my plan, I don't have a ton of time do the research on my own. Anyway care to help, comment, etc??? And if so where? PMs? Here? Some other forum?

--jdiner

Hi8
10-21-2005, 02:13 PM
So while I don't necessarily think this is the right place to ask or have such a discussion I am looking for advice on a TV/Projector/??? to upgrade too. What works best etc... If I am going to get much done on TyTool weekend which has been my plan, I don't have a ton of time do the research on my own. Anyway care to help, comment, etc??? And if so where? PMs? Here? Some other forum?

--jdiner


Projector ?? did you win the lottery? hummm .. well I had a projector in my home theater setup, VERY nice.. now the unit is quite old - 6-7 years, SONY LCD - VLPQ-400 or something like that. It died 2 years ago, they wanted $2600 to fix it. I decided NOT to have it fixed. Instead I bought a Sony Wega 42" LCD rear projection I forget the model number but it is beautiful. It's not a 108" screen like I had with my projector, but I can watch in normally lighted room - where with the projector, I need to darken to NO LIGHT to really enjoy.

My Projector cost me over $6k - the screen itself was $1k - and from what I understand you still need to spend almost that much for a "cheap" system. Not that Sony & DaLite is junk but it's not "THE" system to get either -- I don't think Donald Trump would be buying it.

Start with the room, make sure you consider the Audio side as much as the video. DTS 5.1 or better is more than half of the enjoyment.

You can find alot of choice of smaller LCD panel HDTV screens that are VERY nice .. $$$ however.

Just be carefull once you go HD you won;t want to watch anything else!

JustDan
10-21-2005, 05:11 PM
Selecting a HD TV/monitor can be a chore. There's a number of questions
to answer before a useful recommendation can be made.

1. Space-
Do you have enough room for a mid-large rear projection set?
Room on a wall for a plasma or LCD panel?

2. Seating-
How far from the set will you be when normally watching?

3. Budget-
No explination needed.

4. Favorite shows-
Are they in HD, or good ol' 4X3?

There are now a number of good, relatively inexpensive HD console
models, from 30" to 36". If you still watch a lot of 4X3 programs and
sit more than seven feet from the screen, these models will be too
small. (Unusally less than $1200)

In the mid-size range of 36" to 46" you have the choice of small
rear projection sets or plasma/lcd flat panels. They will offer a
decent size, unstreched, 4x3 picture and can be found for between
$1200 and $5000.

Up from there are the large rear projection sets, large plasma sets and
front projectors. Costs range from $2500 to over $30,000 (one can
dream right?)

No matter which type of set or size you should consider these items
a requirement-
1. HDMI input(s), DVI is also acceptable, but most STB and DVD players
will be moving to HDMI

2. Component inputs are strongly recommended.

3. TRUE HD resolution. Some of the cheaper LCD rear projection sets
and flat panels use a non-standard native resolution (852X800), so
all images must be scaled. Any set you will consider should be at
least native 1280X720. This is less of an issue with CRT based sets.

While most broadcasters are using 1920X1080, it is not critical to
get a set that has that native resolution. The HD Tivo can scale
1920X1080 to 1280X720, and does it well. Most HD sets can also
do the scaling.

I hope this helps, but as I read what I wrote, it might just cause
more questions than it answers.

Dan

jdiner
10-22-2005, 02:08 AM
Projector ?? did you win the lottery?
No. No lottery winnings though that would have been nice. :)

I was being snowed. Which is what I thought at the time and why I asked the only experts I know. I was being shown $1000 - $1300 projectors and being told they were the best thing around. But it was being shown on a 2' square less than 3 feet away. (CompUSA and Best Buy both had them setup that way).

I had a good friend years ago with a $7k projector. It was incredible to watch DVDs etc... on. Was thinking if I could get something like that, well why not at least try. But the costs kept mounting as I looked around. Screen was needed. Ambient light was a major issue. Etc...

I don't really want to buy a new TV. At all. But at the same time I have have things working well enough for the HDTivo stuff to pan out or the rest of what I spent was all a waste.

Which leads back to a TV. Part of the projector question was that in looking around some of the flat plasma???/LCD???/??? tv's were 3 or 4 times that much money.

Which left me very confused and frustrated at the very thought of need some much new equipment just to try and get HD stuff working in TyTool.

--jdiner

cheer
10-22-2005, 11:57 AM
Which leads back to a TV. Part of the projector question was that in looking around some of the flat plasma???/LCD???/??? tv's were 3 or 4 times that much money.

Which left me very confused and frustrated at the very thought of need some much new equipment just to try and get HD stuff working in TyTool.
As others have said, look for yourself at the displays (though most stores have them set up horribly -- overdriven, oversaturated, etc.). See if the store will let you adjust the settings for more real-world results. Ask them to show you an SD feed, too; most bix-box stores can't, but some can (I've had good luck at Tweeter with this one).

Personally, I found myself very happy with an ED Plasma for less than $2k. YMMV.

Hi8
10-23-2005, 08:05 PM
As others have said, look for yourself at the displays (though most stores have them set up horribly -- overdriven, oversaturated, etc.). See if the store will let you adjust the settings for more real-world results. Ask them to show you an SD feed, too; most bix-box stores can't, but some can (I've had good luck at Tweeter with this one).

Personally, I found myself very happy with an ED Plasma for less than $2k. YMMV.

ouch.. ED? no... no.

HD or stick with SD until you get the $.

check out the newer rear projection sets like the Sony Wegas .. $3k will get you a REAL nice one.

jdiner
10-23-2005, 09:49 PM
Now that I know some of what to look for thanks to the helpfull crew here, I went back and looked at that projector again. 480p was the max resolution. See I knew it was off somehow but didn't have the background at the time to actually know what it was. (I can only assume that explains the 2' wide image as well...)

As for $3k for the new TV? Not gonna happen. Remember what I said about not having won the lottery... well I was serious. :)

What prompted all of this was the belief that a better TV would not only make a difference for this HDTivo work I am going to be doing but was essentially a requirement. Now I am not so sure. It appears I can record things and watch them and the tivo itself will do the scaling of the output image directly. Nothing in the docs that came with it says it will, but a few things I have read on the web indicate that it will.

Then I got to checking the back of my 2 TVs. I had one in the workout room in my old house. When I moved it went into storage. In checking it it has the component read/green/blue jacks on the back of it. It is probably now a 2 years old JVC 27" TV. I can't believe it will do higher resolutions natively like some of these other display device, but I suppose I might get better from that than I do from the S-Video jack. The Tivo's manuals indicate it will display more that way.

Man. I feel like an ***** when it comes to this stuff. I had no idea that "TVs" had change this much and had this many options. And to think I got into Tivo hacking so I would stop missing my favorite shows when I got hung up at work. Something that simple spawned off TyTool and now this level of growing pains. *sigh*

--jdiner

jdiner
10-23-2005, 09:53 PM
I have seen a couple of really nice Plasma TV's from name brands at various stores around town including Sam's Club. Would never have expected that kind of thing to show up there. But whatever...

The plasma do seem to have better image quality to me. But I am not certain that is really the case. I noticed I was tending towards, as I was looking around, those with a brighter picture. Helps in the store I think, but might get overly bright when watching at home under normal conditions.

But hey. I also kind of realized I was getting just a touch ahead of myself. I still haven't even gotten the OTA antenna up or working yet. I think I will focus there rather than on the best way of watching things. Once I have that working I can get going with the software and worry about the tv portion later...

Thanks for all the advice. If anyone has any more on a display for this stuff then please feel free to pass it on to me. I am noob on this part of this and appriciate all of the advice and suggestions.

--jdiner

tPeter42
10-24-2005, 12:41 AM
I'm 99% sure that the TiVo can downres HD shows to 480i and output them over s-video. I'm not entireley sure about the component output. I've never tried it myself, so I can't say i'm 100% sure.

cheer
10-24-2005, 12:53 PM
ouch.. ED? no... no.

HD or stick with SD until you get the $.

check out the newer rear projection sets like the Sony Wegas .. $3k will get you a REAL nice one.
As I said, YMMV. This plasma ED looks a million times better than a DLP HD or whatnot, IMO.

And again, if most of what you watch is SD, it will look better on ED than HD.

IMO.

cheer
10-24-2005, 12:57 PM
Then I got to checking the back of my 2 TVs. I had one in the workout room in my old house. When I moved it went into storage. In checking it it has the component read/green/blue jacks on the back of it. It is probably now a 2 years old JVC 27" TV. I can't believe it will do higher resolutions natively like some of these other display device, but I suppose I might get better from that than I do from the S-Video jack. The Tivo's manuals indicate it will display more that way.
If it's not HD (and it probably isn't), then 480i is your limit, regardless of the connection.

However, you may get a better-looking 480i with component. And as far as I know, yes the HD10-250 scales down to whatever your output is.

Cheezmo
10-24-2005, 11:50 PM
My quick thoughts on HD display options...

<$1000 Direct View CRT, 32-34"
<$2000 CRT RPTV, 42-57"
<$3000 DLP/LCOS RPTV 42-61"
and up, but I think we're already over jdiner's stated budget.

cheer
10-25-2005, 09:00 AM
My quick thoughts on HD display options...

<$1000 Direct View CRT, 32-34"
<$2000 CRT RPTV, 42-57"
<$3000 DLP/LCOS RPTV 42-61"
and up, but I think we're already over jdiner's stated budget.
I agree with the sub-$1000, because that's all there is. :)

For <$2000 though...CRT RPTV? Really? (This is why recommendations like this are of limited value, because everyone has a different opinion.) Anyway, you can get a DLP or LCD RPTV for sub-$2k. Personally I think the CRT RPTVs look awful, but of course that's IMO.

And for sub-$3k, you can do plasma easily.

Cheezmo
10-25-2005, 09:12 AM
I agree with the sub-$1000, because that's all there is. :)

For <$2000 though...CRT RPTV? Really? (This is why recommendations like this are of limited value, because everyone has a different opinion.) Anyway, you can get a DLP or LCD RPTV for sub-$2k. Personally I think the CRT RPTVs look awful, but of course that's IMO.

And for sub-$3k, you can do plasma easily.

A DLP RPTV <$2K is still <$3K ;)

CRT RPTV's have a bad rap these days because they aren't the hot new trendy technology, but they have the best blacks available and are a real bargain for the screen size. I have a Samsung DLP and an older Mitsubishi RPTV and there is no question which one I would want to watch movies/dramas on (the Mits). Both are ISF calibrated. The Samsung is fine for video games, sports, bright shows during the day, but I cringe watching it at night with dark scenes.

This probably isn't the place for a lengthy debate on this stuff (you can read plenty at AVS Forum or The Home Theater Spot or something), I was just trying to give a rough guideline of what is out there.

jdiner
10-25-2005, 06:13 PM
I agree. This really isn't the place for a major discussion. I was merely looking for the lay of the land. I know that things change constantly, people have their own preferences (which someone else out there will just hate), and model to model most of the "givens" may change as well.

But having owned 1 TV and one only for 12 years and then buying the newer model of the same thing about 2 years ago for my weight room... I find that I have no clue whatsoever really about the new stuff going on...

Thanks for the info one and all.
--jdiner

Zyll
10-28-2005, 03:04 PM
I hesitated before jumping into this debate, but for once the conversation involved something I know about instead of a discussion of tivo internals!

I think that for someone willing to put a little effort into the geometry and interconnects for a projector that it gives a result that exceeds much more expensive alternatives. I would never go back.

First, the native resolution of a projector is not the most important characteristic. You would be amazed at what a 480 PJ can do with HD material. The digital projectors have gotten very good, and the $7K PJ you saw a few years ago is probably comparable to a <$1K digital projector today.
You can have much larger screen sizes if you want (in a dark room), and with a "small" (say 80") screen the brightness is sufficient to handle some ambient.

As an example, the Infocus 4805 is a 16:9 dlp projector that is very reasonably priced and shows a great picture. With a HD source you will be amazed. www.avsforum.com is a great place to do research.

The electronics stores are awful places to see projectors - the amibient lighting is horrible, and I've never seen a properly set up PJ. They are fine to buy if you can get a good price, or want to use their return program :-)

But.... you shouldn't take my (or anyone's) word for it - the best way is to give it a try. Infocus has a "demo" program that will ship you a projector for a week to try out. That's what I did - just use a white all, or hang up a sheet (or "blackout cloth" from a fabric store, which is what I did) and you can set it up and see for yourself. This is a free program, and Infocus even pays shipping both ways!

Don't give up on the projector!

desplaines
10-28-2005, 09:14 PM
jdiner-

Go for a DLP rear-projector if you have $1500 or more to spend; otherwise, get a CRT rear-projector (if you want a big screen and have room for a big box) or get a CRT direct-view set (smaller screen, smaller box-Sonys are best by far). Definitely do not get a 4:3 (old-style, non-widescreen) TV-the HD Tivo just does not work well with them. Do not bother with plasma-in the year 2005, who needs a display where you have to worry if you watch too much non-widescreen TV?

jdiner
11-10-2005, 03:49 PM
Wow. I found the TV I want... No way I can afford it but I found it. :)

SONY 60" Grand WEGA™ SXRD&#174; HD Built-In Projection TV

Oh man. I was in best buy checking them out last night. Wow is all I can say. Good up to 1920x1080. Just amazing. Only $5k. But just amazing. Now if I only I could win the lottery...

What I really need is someone to just tell me what to buy. I came home from the store after looking at TVs and found that I had come to no conclusions. Some were clearly a better picture that others. But there were so many all in the same range that it led me to intangibles. I.e. what brand will last the longest. How long will the picture stay crisp and clear. Do I have to worry about burn in etc...

So somebody step up and tell me what to buy. Or at least what you bought. :) Baring starting a flame war feel free to send make and model info in a PM.

One I get the TV, I just need the right antenna to get OTA and we will be cooking with gas.

--jdiner

rhmoore
11-10-2005, 08:28 PM
I'm using PRE3 TT9r19 and extracting HD stream from HR10-250. Lost is the episode. I can extract fine. I do the MUX (NOT the New one) and produce the VOB file. Using TheaterTek to play back the VOB file, the video is very jumpy or choppy. The audio is fine, but not the video. Can anyone provide assistance?

bcc
11-11-2005, 02:04 PM
I'm using PRE3 TT9r19 and extracting HD stream from HR10-250. Lost is the episode. I can extract fine. I do the MUX (NOT the New one) and produce the VOB file. Using TheaterTek to play back the VOB file, the video is very jumpy or choppy. The audio is fine, but not the video. Can anyone provide assistance?I assume you have enough CPU horsepower (aprox 3ghz intel) to playback high-def in software.
You might try hdemux with mplex instead of tytool for the demuxing&muxing.

rhmoore
11-11-2005, 04:05 PM
I tried hdemux tools but always got errors and it wouldn't finish on the hi-def stream. As far as the CPU goes, I have a 2.4 GHZ. I'm assuming from your post that I need at least a 3 GHZ machine to handle hi-def in software, so I'm off to Best Buy to give this option a shot.

Thanks, I'll post back when I have some results...

bcc
11-11-2005, 05:44 PM
I tried hdemux tools but always got errors and it wouldn't finish on the hi-def stream. I could probably help with that if you wished to detail the problems & troubleshoot.
As far as the CPU goes, I have a 2.4 GHZ. I'm assuming from your post that I need at least a 3 GHZ machine to handle hi-def in software, so I'm off to Best Buy to give this option a shot.

Thanks, I'll post back when I have some results...Your performance may vary, especially since some software mpeg players claim to make some use of hardware assists (from the video and audio hardware) during playback. Also it's not clear to me whether video hardware assist applies to HD resolutions or not. I haven't tried theathertek, but with windvd, powerdvd, 2.4ghz is not enough for HD. I've tried that exact speed. I notice that theatertek doesn't market any HD resolution claims like windvd, powerdvd, so theatertek may be part of your problem.
Lost is ABC, so that's just 720p and thus might be easier for your system to decode&playback than full 1920x1080i.

jdiner
11-12-2005, 12:48 PM
I agree with bcc from my own testing and work with TyTool I ahve found that 2.4 ghz is just not enough CPU power. Shame that it takes so much more but when you look at the internal MPEG-2 data and then how much is trying to be pushed to the screen it really is a ton of work going on.

--jdiner

redstone
11-12-2005, 07:56 PM
The 9r19pre3 file link is in this topic (extraction from HR10-250) I am pretty sure, but you may have to page backwards through this topic to find it.


I have searched on every variation on the name "9r19pre3" that I can think of and can not find it in this thread.

Could someone please post the link for this file please?

Thanks

jdiner
11-12-2005, 11:29 PM
I have searched on every variation on the name "9r19pre3" that I can think of and can not find it in this thread.

Could someone please post the link for this file please?
He meant the "TyTool HD pre-release 3".

Had to go into work today for almost 7 hours. But I am getting back into TyTool now. Some good stuff to come. Got a nasty OTA stream a few weeks back from someone here on the forum that showed some serious stream oddities. Getting it working for that should solve many problems for people here...

Kind of makes me sick but I love really whacked out streams like that. Amazing what people do/try/transmit. Honestly amazing...

--jdiner

rhmoore
11-13-2005, 12:54 AM
Thanks, I'm now assembling the 3.2 GHZ machine to give this a try. I will need to replace my HTPC if this works as I have a Media Server with about 400 DVD's ripped to it and want to use my media server for hacked Tivo video files as well. But I love HI-DEF so much, I want to figure out a way to make this all work.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I figured out how to extract the .ty file, then after muxing, I am able to use Vobedit and Ifoedit to create the IFO files rather than tytool. Nothing against Tytool, I just don't want any front end menus, just the video and I found this is the quickest way to do it for me.

I'll post back with the results...

Thanks much!

jdiner
11-13-2005, 02:34 AM
BTW, if anyone is interested, I figured out how to extract the .ty file, then after muxing, I am able to use Vobedit and Ifoedit to create the IFO files rather than tytool. Nothing against Tytool, I just don't want any front end menus, just the video and I found this is the quickest way to do it for me.
So go into the preferences wizard, move down to the 6th page (the MENU options) and turn off the menu. Then when you make a DVD it will produce one that auto plays, moves from 1 movie to the next (if there is more than one) and auto-loops on completion.

Simple enough way to go about it.

--jdiner

rhmoore
11-13-2005, 08:46 AM
So go into the preferences wizard, move down to the 6th page (the MENU options) and turn off the menu.

I can't find the Preferences wizard anywhere in TT. When I choose create ifos from TT, once I've selected the VOB, the options menu (where I thought I might find this option) is disabled. Sorry for asking a stupid question, but where do I find this wizard?

rhmoore
11-13-2005, 09:25 AM
I could probably help with that if you wished to detail the problems & troubleshoot.
Here is my most recent output from Hdemux. It may have worked this time.
================================
Version 0.11
Source is C:\Documents and Settings\robert\Desktop\GhostStory\Lost-Orientation-1
.ty
Video frame size is 1280x720 - high definition. Frame rate 59.940060
Video bit rate is 45000000 bits/sec., 45000 Kbit/sec.
Audio timestamp offset: 373.100000 ms
AC3 audio at 48kHz, 1536 bytes/sync frame
Reported datarate 45384 Kbit/sec. (45000+384)
Proceed with remuxer:
mplex -f 8 -O 373ms -r 153701 C:\Documents and Settings\robert\Desktop\G
hostStory\audio.m2a C:\Documents and Settings\robert\Desktop\GhostStory\video.m2
v -o <outfile>.mpg
Warning: Skipping chunk 52067 due to timestamp discontinuity
173107306 audio stream bytes 2340245257 video stream bytes
================================

So what would you recommend I use to remux the m2v and m2a files?

And here's the interesting thing, the m2v file plays fine in Windows Media player. No frame jumpiness at all on the same 2.4 ghz machine. Of course, no audio and it seems to be playing at double speed.

bcc
11-13-2005, 04:51 PM
The hdemux output told you what to do next:
Proceed with remuxer:
mplex -f 8 -O 373ms -r 153701 C:\Documents and Settings\robert\Desktop\GhostStory\audio.m2a C:\Documents and Settings\robert\Desktop\GhostStory\video.m2v -o <outfile>.mpg
The video may be appearing to play at the wrong rate because your system is dropping frames. Also for .m2v playback, I recommend a standards based player such as powerdvd, windvd, mplayer, elecard, not windows media player.

jdiner
11-13-2005, 06:52 PM
I can't find the Preferences wizard anywhere in TT. When I choose create ifos from TT, once I've selected the VOB, the options menu (where I thought I might find this option) is disabled. Sorry for asking a stupid question, but where do I find this wizard?
I must apologize. I was pretty darn tired last night. The wizard is part of the new TyTool system. It hasn't been released yet. Sorry, I honestly thought it had been released. Look for it in the next release.

--jdiner

rhmoore
11-13-2005, 08:06 PM
Thanks bcc and jdiner. I have good news to report. All along, I've really just wanted to capture the hi-def streams from my HR10-250 and put them in some playable format on a HTPC Media Server that I built. I'm still not able to turn the .ty files or .mpg files for that matter, into a playable VOB file (without the video choppiness) on my Media Server.

But for some reason I am able to play the MUX'd .mpg files (not new mux version) in TheaterTek without any jumpiness or choppy video. In fact, with the latest Theatertek upgrade (2.2.1) I have even more features now that make this format completely acceptable, including rewind and fast forward and aspect ratio adjustment for the .mpg files. It plays PERFECTLY from start to finish on my media server and on my desktop.

I guess I would still like to compile a working VOB file with IFO files so that I can have chapters, bookmarks and several other features available only with a properly formatted dvd stream, but for the time being, I am quite happy having gotten this far.

bcc, i did try the remuxer, but every time I played it back in WMP, I got fast video (like double time) and audio lagged behind as if it were the only stream playing at the right speed. That's why I thought I would ask if there were perhaps another more preferred method of re-encoding the video and audio. I did download TMPEG and tried that, but got the same results.

Look, either way, you guys rock in here. All of your effort in helping people like myself to accomplish what we're looking for, with very few thank you's and even less monetary gain (if not completely zero) is far more than most people would do.

jdiner, if you have a favorite charity or a paypal account I can contribute to, please let me know. Thanks very much to one and all for helping me get this far at least.

Cheers!

bcc
11-13-2005, 10:01 PM
bcc, i did try the remuxer, but every time I played it back in WMP, I got fast video (like double time) and audio lagged behind as if it were the only stream playing at the right speed. That's why I thought I would ask if there were perhaps another more preferred method of re-encoding the video and audio. I did download TMPEG and tried that, but got the same results.mplex is what I'd recommend, as I haven't released my own multiplexor.
I suspect your problem relates to your use of windows media player, which does not even come with a codec to play back mpeg2. Which means you're using a 3rd party codec, who knows which, and windows media player's use of it may be AFU, especially with your under-powered CPU. Lacking any debug info, all I can say is that I have no such problem playing back OTA ABC 720p broadcasts on a 3ghz pentium.
Look, either way, you guys rock in here. All of your effort in helping people like myself to accomplish what we're looking for, with very few thank you's and even less monetary gain (if not completely zero) is far more than most people would do. Thanks. Personally I get no monetary gain and haven't been soliciting that either.

desplaines
11-15-2005, 08:47 PM
I have searched on every variation on the name "9r19pre3" that I can think of and can not find it in this thread.

Could someone please post the link for this file please?

Thanks
It is in Post #778... and, thanks for your previous help.

desplaines
11-15-2005, 08:58 PM
What I really need is someone to just tell me what to buy. I came home from the store after looking at TVs and found that I had come to no conclusions. Some were clearly a better picture that others. But there were so many all in the same range that it led me to intangibles. I.e. what brand will last the longest. How long will the picture stay crisp and clear. Do I have to worry about burn in etc...

So somebody step up and tell me what to buy. Or at least what you bought. :) Baring starting a flame war feel free to send make and model info in a PM.

One I get the TV, I just need the right antenna to get OTA and we will be cooking with gas.

--jdiner
I hate to keep answering questions with questions, but... Can you answer these few and I will try to give you exact brands/models that I recommend?

1) How much money, plus or minus $200, are you willing to spend?

2) How much space (height, width, and depth, and the distance from your seats to the screen and/or back wall) do you have available?

3) How big of a screen do you want?

--For an antenna, if you have the ability to install a 'normal' outdoor TV antenna on a chimney, vent pipe, or whatever, I could probably get you part numbers from Home Depot/Lowe's or similar... If you cannot install an outdoor antenna, check www.antennaweb.org and find out if all of your digital stations are UHF (channels above 13)-if they are, get a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna.

redstone
11-16-2005, 09:26 PM
The HD TIVO shows advertisements/short demos/etc. that you get to via a different menu.

There is one showing now that a number of us would like to get off the HDTIVO.

It is a 4 minute 'movie' called "The Making of the 350Z commercial".

Nissan was running an ad for the 350Z on TV and this is a behind the scenes short subject of how they made the commercial.

I do not see this listed in the dir listing on tytool or mfsftp.

Is there anyway to get at that recording?
I have a Z and would really like to keep that 'movie'

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

jdiner
11-17-2005, 06:05 PM
I hate to keep answering questions with questions, but... Can you answer these few and I will try to give you exact brands/models that I recommend?

1) How much money, plus or minus $200, are you willing to spend?
$2,300.


2) How much space (height, width, and depth, and the distance from your seats to the screen and/or back wall) do you have available?
8-10 feet from current screen to the wall behind my couch. I can measure it exactly if that makes a difference.


3) How big of a screen do you want?
I figure at least 50 inches. Might as well do it right the first time. :)


check www.antennaweb.org and find out if all of your digital stations are UHF (channels above 13)-if they are, get a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna.
They are all about 13. Any suggestions on where one can get a the Zenith antenna? Home Depot? Lowes? Best Buy? Where would I look?

Thanks for the help in advance.

--jdiner

rrg
11-24-2005, 01:35 AM
I think this has been addressed previously somewhere at DDB but I can't remember where and I've gone numb searching for it. I'm hoping someone can point me to it.

There is software (is there not?), ty-something, that ostensibly allows you to insert, into an HR10-250, an HD stream that was recorded elsewhere. Or instructions for how to package an HD stream so that it can be inserted via mfs_ftp. Something
like that. But I can't remember what it's called or where it is.

rrg
11-24-2005, 03:39 PM
There it is. tymplex.

vurbano
12-02-2005, 09:14 AM
I assume that you would prefer the .ty stream over any mux'ed output.

I need to get access to another burner, but hope to get it out early next week.

I'm curious if anyone else is seeing this with Showtime-HD streams. I've
been testing each of the Pre releases. HD-Pre and 9R18 both process this
same stream without error and the resulting mpg does not have any audio issues.

I'm trying a HBO-HD stream now to see if it does the same thing.

Dan
yes most of my showtimeHD material is FUBAR riddled with audio problems. I recoreded and downloaded tomb raider 3 or 4 times from showtime before I got a good copy. HBOHD is usually much better. I am using 9R18.
Lots of "fix it dear henry" and "unknown audio format" and amaged series II video frames.

vurbano
12-02-2005, 12:52 PM
$2,300.


8-10 feet from current screen to the wall behind my couch. I can measure it exactly if that makes a difference.


I figure at least 50 inches. Might as well do it right the first time. :)


They are all about 13. Any suggestions on where one can get a the Zenith antenna? Home Depot? Lowes? Best Buy? Where would I look?

Thanks for the help in advance.

--jdiner


Onecall has some good deals on 50 inch sammys the 720p models in your price range. I see no real future in the 1080p models considering the bandwidth limitations sat providers already experience. As far as antennas, channel master 4228 or a good Yagi, go to solidsignal.com to get it.

jdiner
12-08-2005, 03:09 AM
I posted this in the main TyTool thread but since many more hang out there than there at this point I wanted to post it here and see if I could get some help with this one last piece. Then I will be able to start some serious work on getting the HD stuff up to par. I do apologize for the double post I was just hoping to record some stuff tonight so I could start pulling test streams.

--jdiner

==========

Alright boys and girls. I could use a bit of help from a knowledgable soul.

I hacked my HDTivo tonight. Used the same processes as I have in the past and it worked perfectly. Networking is up, serial console is enabled, etc... The kernel was one on the PTVUpgrades disk for 3.1.5f that had killhdinitrd already run on it.

So far so good. However, I then got to the point of disabling the scrambling and used the patches posted by alphawolf in a thread to that end. Namely:


echo -ne "\x3C\x02\x00\x00" | dd conv=notrunc of=tivoapp bs=1 seek=6984684

Which was listed as the "way" for the 3.1.5f to turn off all future scrambling. Since I had nothing recorded this was just fine with me and seemed the thing to do. Went onto the next step and it was about shows already recorded of which, again, there were none.

So I did the norm (and as shown in that thread) and copied off the file (thank goodness), patched just 1 copy of it, remounted as read only and rebooted.

Immediately it went into a reboot loop. Watched the console and there was a major software failure with register dumps and everything. Luckily, since I had closed the case up and didn't really want to re-open it, I managed to console in via the serial port and mv the files around to put the orig back. At that point after the forced reboot things came up and were stable again. Makes since as the only altered file on that change was put back.

So... Not going to try that again until I know what is going on and what I should be doing. Was there more? Did I miss a step? What did those of you have have it working do?

Care to help a lost soul out a little bit? And further the cause of HD processing? :)

Many Thanks,
--jdiner

jdiner
12-08-2005, 03:11 AM
It just occured to me that it is possible there is more than 1 technique. So how did you guys turn off the scrambling on your boxes?

--jdiner

jdiner
12-08-2005, 04:12 AM
Oh man I was just dumb.

My tivo is running 3.1.5e not f. Works like a champ now.

Can't believe it I verified it 3 times and read it wrong each time. :(

Thanks for the help one and all.

--jdiner

jdiner
12-09-2005, 03:38 AM
Many thanks for the recommendations on the Zenith Silver Sensor OTA antenna. I got one at RC Willey today. After driving all over town looking for something not made by Terk. Cost me $40 but I wanted it for this weekend so ordering online was out. Any I got it put together (extremely hard to do :), all plugged into the HDTivo, setup said tivo, and bingo local OTA HD signals. At long last I am in business... There will be a new release of TyTool this weekend my hope is to get the next round of HD stuff into it before release and see if we can't get some traction in solving the constant audio problems.

To that end my HDTivo is going to record 8 hours of OTA HD data tonight so I can go through it tomorrow. :) I already have 10+ hours of DTV source materials. Hopefully it will work out cleanly.

--jdiner

DeadSock
12-09-2005, 09:27 PM
Oh man I was just dumb.

My tivo is running 3.1.5e not f. Works like a champ now.

Can't believe it I verified it 3 times and read it wrong each time. :(

Thanks for the help one and all.

--jdiner

what was the scrambling offset you ended up using? (mine is 3.1.5e too) ... my search-fu is not gettng me a clean answer ...

jdiner
12-09-2005, 09:44 PM
what was the scrambling offset you ended up using? (mine is 3.1.5e too) ... my search-fu is not gettng me a clean answer ...
I used:

echo -ne "\x3C\x02\x00\x00" | dd conv=notrunc of=tivoapp bs=1 seek=6984700

--jdiner

jdiner
12-09-2005, 09:47 PM
Well I am still not doing well with the network speed. Upgraded to the latest backported drivers by Jamie and I am getting a whopping 1.07M/s. Up from 0.88M/s using the ones that come on the tivo.

Not sure what I am doing wrong at this point. Kind of funny. In a sad way. I got it all setup to be working on stuff this weekend and at this rate I will just about be done download at the end of the weekend.

So anyone going nice and fast and want to either send me the set of drivers or tell me what actually needs to be done to go faster?

I assume that the normal Series2 speed apply and I should be able to get just past 2.2 meg/sec without any problems...

--jdiner

JustDan
12-09-2005, 10:18 PM
Well I am still not doing well with the network speed. Upgraded to the latest backported drivers by Jamie and I am getting a whopping 1.07M/s. Up from 0.88M/s using the ones that come on the tivo.

Not sure what I am doing wrong at this point. Kind of funny. In a sad way. I got it all setup to be working on stuff this weekend and at this rate I will just about be done download at the end of the weekend.

So anyone going nice and fast and want to either send me the set of drivers or tell me what actually needs to be done to go faster?

I assume that the normal Series2 speed apply and I should be able to get just past 2.2 meg/sec without any problems...

--jdiner

You're on the low side even for the old drivers. Here's my recipe-

Jamie's latest backport
Airlink 101 USB 2.0 Gigabit adapter $20
SMC 850[58] gigabit switch (only soho switch with jumbo frame support) $80
Jumbo frames turned on on XP $0
MTU set to 8970 on the HDTivo $0 (My GigE card peaks at 9000 including the header)
GigE card (Avoid Broadcom 5701 based gig ethernet, no jumbo frames.) $100

rc.sysinit.author
#USB Drivers
insmod /lib/modules/usbcore.o log2_irq_thresh=4
insmod /lib/modules/hcd.o
#insmod /lib/modules/ehci-hcd.o
insmod /lib/modules/ax8817x.o

sleep 30

#IP Address
ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.50 broadcast 199.254.167.255 netmask 255.255.255.0
ifconfig eth0 down
ifconfig eth0 mtu 8970
ifconfig eth0 up

Result-
2.5 M/s tuned to two HD channels
5~5.6M/s in standby or tuned to audio only channels
$Priceless

jdiner
12-10-2005, 12:08 PM
insmod /lib/modules/usbcore.o log2_irq_thresh=4
Well I added the "log2_irq_thresh=4" to the end of my usbcore line and I jumped to 1.6meg. Switch the turners to no channels and I get about 2.5meg/sec.


Result-
2.5 M/s tuned to two HD channels
5~5.6M/s in standby or tuned to audio only channels
$Priceless
So I am back a bit. But I figure to get much faster at this point I will have to switch over to gigabit ethernet like you mentioned having. At least for the moment things are taking 30+ minutes to download rather than 3-4 hours like they were reporting at first. Fast enough to get a ton of OTA shows down and ready to look at. So thanks for the pointers. Made a big difference.

--jdiner

JustDan
12-10-2005, 12:36 PM
Well I added the "log2_irq_thresh=4" to the end of my usbcore line and I jumped to 1.6meg. Switch the turners to no channels and I get about 2.5meg/sec.


So I am back a bit. But I figure to get much faster at this point I will have to switch over to gigabit ethernet like you mentioned having. At least for the moment things are taking 30+ minutes to download rather than 3-4 hours like they were reporting at first. Fast enough to get a ton of OTA shows down and ready to look at. So thanks for the pointers. Made a big difference.

--jdiner

Glad to be of help, and looking forward to the new release.

Jamie
12-10-2005, 12:53 PM
Well I added the "log2_irq_thresh=4" to the end of my usbcore line and I jumped to 1.6meg. Switch the turners to no channels and I get about 2.5meg/seclog2_irq_thresh=4 has been the default for the last several releases, so I'm surprised this made any difference. Perhaps you are still using an older release. The latest is 20050916.

My network setup is much like JustDan's. Jumbo frames are important; you won't see any benefit from gige on a tivo without them. I've had good luck with the intel NIC's for the PC side, under both WinXP and linux. They run about $30-40 as a PCI card, but they're also onboard on some motherboards.

jdiner
12-10-2005, 01:11 PM
log2_irq_thresh=4 has been the default for the last several releases, so I'm surprised this made any difference. Perhaps you are still using an older release. The latest is 20050916.
My download was:

usbobj2.4.27-20050619.tar.bz2

So it would appear to have been the latest. The configuration I am now using is:

insmod /var/hack/usb2/usbcore.o log2_irq_thresh=4
insmod /var/hack/usb2/usb-ohci.o
insmod /var/hack/usb2/usbnet.o
sleep 10

ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.243 netmask 255.255.255.0
sleep 50
tnlited 23 /bin/bash -login &
tivoftpd

Seemed to be the proper order and the right way to do things. If it is better done another way then please by all means fill me in. I put them in a different location so that I could forcefully try to make sure that I was loading the right modules.

At the moment I only have a USB 2.0 standard 10/100 adapter. NetGear FA-120. I had no idea until basically last night that going gigabit would make a difference. So I haven't purchased one yet.


My network setup is much like JustDan's. Jumbo frames are important; you won't see any benefit from gige on a tivo without them. I've had good luck with the intel NIC's for the PC side, under both WinXP and linux. They run about $30-40 as a PCI card, but they're also onboard on some motherboards.
I don't have a gig switch yet. But some of my machines do have it built onto the motherboard.

--jdiner

Jamie
12-10-2005, 01:58 PM
My download was:

usbobj2.4.27-20050619.tar.bz2

So it would appear to have been the latest.
Well, I just mentioned that 20050916 was the latest. Yours is three months older than that. But the default log2_irq_thresh values was changed in Feb, so it should be in the 20050619 version.

If log2_irq_thresh=4 is making a difference, I'm forced to conclude you aren't running the usbcore/ehci-hcd you think you are.

jdiner
12-10-2005, 02:01 PM
Well, I just mentioned that 20050916 was the latest. Yours is three months older than that. But the default log2_irq_thresh values was changed in Feb, so you it should be in the 20050619 version.

If log2_irq_thresh=4 is making a difference, I'm forced to conclude you aren't running the usbcore/ehci-hcd you think you are.
Oh man. I am sorry. Just like other night I read it over and was certain the dates where the same. I am starting to think there is something is wrong with me... :)

Yeah. I am just dumb these days. I will upgrade to the latest. Thanks for the help. :)

--jdiner

monkeyboy1010
12-10-2005, 03:14 PM
Airlink 101 USB 2.0 Gigabit adapter $20
SMC 850[58] gigabit switch (only soho switch with jumbo frame support) $80
Jumbo frames turned on on XP $0
MTU set to 8970 on the HDTivo $0 (My GigE card peaks at 9000 including the header)
GigE card (Avoid Broadcom 5701 based gig ethernet, no jumbo frames.) $100

Instead of buying the GigE card, couldn't you purchase another Airlink 101?

just to be clear are you speaking of these products:

http://www.smc.com/index.cfm?event=viewProduct&localeCode=EN_USA&cid=6&scid=&pid=1138

and

http://www.airlink101.com/products/agigausb.html

Thanks,

MB1010

bcc
12-10-2005, 08:48 PM
Speaking of gig-e hardware, has anyone try the SMC GS5/GS8 gig-e switches? Looks like cost reduced versions of the smc8505t/8508t. Specs look the same including jumbo frame support. But I'm curious if they broke anything in the cost reduction.

JustDan
12-12-2005, 05:11 AM
Instead of buying the GigE card, couldn't you purchase another Airlink 101?

just to be clear are you speaking of these products:

http://www.smc.com/index.cfm?event=viewProduct&localeCode=EN_USA&cid=6&scid=&pid=1138

and

http://www.airlink101.com/products/agigausb.html

Thanks,

MB1010

I suppose I could have bought another Airlink, but I prefer to use
a native device whenever possible. As Jamie pointed out, my estimate
of $100 is high, and a lot of boards come with builtin in GigE (but
still watch out for the BCM5701).

The links point to the correct SMC and Airlink products. I use the 8508,
two of them in fact. One behind the TV for the Tivo and a networked
DVD player, which is uplinked to the the second which hosts the rest
of the systems on my network.

Also the Airlink is physically one of the nicest USB adapters I have found.

vurbano
12-13-2005, 02:32 PM
Speaking of gig-e hardware, has anyone try the SMC GS5/GS8 gig-e switches? Looks like cost reduced versions of the smc8505t/8508t. Specs look the same including jumbo frame support. But I'm curious if they broke anything in the cost reduction.

I have the same question. the GS models look like a redesign for wife acceptability and the 8505t isnt on sale at newegg anymore. One reviewer of the GS5 at newegg said that the switch bogged down when 9000 kb packet size was used. I have the 8508T and it is my main switch but I need a 5 port gigabyte switch for the devices in my living room (HDtivo, Linkplayer2, Xbox, etc) and get rid of the 10/100 switch they are on.

bcc
12-13-2005, 03:42 PM
I compared the specs, and the newer gs models have lower power and buffering specifications. I just got an 8505t, and in the manual its specs now match the newer model. So it looks like the cost reduction is now in both lines. Difference being metal rack mountable vs plastic. Not that the 8505 rack mounts well anyways (the ports are on the front so your cables would stick out of the rack, ugh).

There is still a $20 rebate on the newer models...

vurbano
12-13-2005, 04:07 PM
I compared the specs, and the newer gs models have lower power and buffering specifications. I just got an 8505t, and in the manual its specs now match the newer model. So it looks like the cost reduction is now in both lines. Difference being metal rack mountable vs plastic. Not that the 8505 rack mounts well anyways (the ports are on the front so your cables would stick out of the rack, ugh).



There is still a $20 rebate on the newer models...

Let me know how your 8505t is performing with jumbo frames. If the specs are the same then I'll probably get the GS model. It will look a little better with the entertainment equipment.

LlamaLarry
12-13-2005, 04:12 PM
Darn, had I only waited 3 hours to place my order for the 8508T, the GS version was ~$47 AR, compared to $88 (and no rebate).

bcc
12-13-2005, 06:39 PM
Let me know how your 8505t is performing with jumbo frames. If the specs are the same then I'll probably get the GS model. It will look a little better with the entertainment equipment.Problem is my HTPC's gig-e is not letting me turn on jumbo frames (tho it should), so I've been unable to stress test the SMC. Should have more gig-e gear to test with soon. In the mean time, if anyone knows how to get jumbo frames working with nvidia's nforce 430 I'm all ears.
Darn, had I only waited 3 hours to place my order for the 8508T, the GS version was ~$47 AR, compared to $88 (and no rebate).Who knows, you may be better off performance wise. Too hard to tell from the marketing specs...

vurbano
12-13-2005, 09:51 PM
I find it hard to believe that SMC would actually regress in performance when they were in the lead.

bcc
12-13-2005, 10:37 PM
Oh boy. Nice to have beliefs. Where to start? new&cheaper does not imply better. Component cost reduction doesn't mean preserve quality/performance when customers typically shop on price alone. SMC is certainly not the market leader, not even in this cheap low end gear segment.
Newer low-end netgear switches supposedly do jumbo frames as well...

vurbano
12-15-2005, 12:25 PM
Oh boy. Nice to have beliefs. Where to start? new&cheaper does not imply better. Component cost reduction doesn't mean preserve quality/performance when customers typically shop on price alone. SMC is certainly not the market leader, not even in this cheap low end gear segment.
Newer low-end netgear switches supposedly do jumbo frames as well...

I was reffering to the older SMC 8508T. It was a great switch one of the first to do jumbo frames I think. I never buy at the cheapest price point. I consider the features I want and buy the cheapest with those features from a good manufacturer. I guess Im not a typical consumer and have forgotten that. The SMC website still says that the 8508T and the 8505T still do jumbo frames up to 9000Kb. Where have they cut performance on these? Ill stay away from the new 20 dollar model and pick up the 8505T for my 2nd switch if it will do the job.

monkeyboy1010
12-20-2005, 09:02 PM
Here's my recipe-

Jamie's latest backport
Airlink 101 USB 2.0 Gigabit adapter $20
SMC 850[58] gigabit switch (only soho switch with jumbo frame support) $80
Jumbo frames turned on on XP $0
MTU set to 8970 on the HDTivo $0 (My GigE card peaks at 9000 including the header)
GigE card (Avoid Broadcom 5701 based gig ethernet, no jumbo frames.) $100

rc.sysinit.author
#USB Drivers
insmod /lib/modules/usbcore.o log2_irq_thresh=4
insmod /lib/modules/hcd.o
#insmod /lib/modules/ehci-hcd.o
insmod /lib/modules/ax8817x.o

sleep 30

#IP Address
ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.50 broadcast 199.254.167.255 netmask 255.255.255.0
ifconfig eth0 down
ifconfig eth0 mtu 8970
ifconfig eth0 up

Result-
2.5 M/s tuned to two HD channels
5~5.6M/s in standby or tuned to audio only channels
$Priceless

Major props to JustDan for his "recipe" it works like a charm! I am getting exactly the same numbers he is mentioning here. SWEEEEEEET!

Thanks Again!

MB1010

bcc
12-20-2005, 09:24 PM
So I've finally been able to do some testing of jumbo frames with my newer 9volt SMC 8505T switch. They work, but the switch drops frames at a strange point. Any IP packets larger than 8982 bytes are dropped. That's 8982 layer 3 bytes; 8982+14=8996 bytes including link layer encapsulation. So it looks like the switch only supports 9000 bytes INCLUDING the layer 2 encapsulation length, instead of 9000 PLUS the encapsulation length.

At the point where the switch is dropping the packets, you can see the busy light flash on just 1 of the 2 expected ports. The switch doesn't "bog down" like someone claimed about the gs5.

With ttcp, I can get ~730Mbit/sec. TCP throughput with 8982 MTU. With 1500 MTU, I get just ~420Mbit/sec. throughput. Those are payload numbers BTW. (Oh and this is with PCs not tivo).

joeblough
01-10-2006, 01:25 AM
9000 bytes is pretty much the standard for jumbo ethernet frames... and that number is always for the L2 packet, not the L3 packet. so if you have an 802.1q tag or other encaps (mpls for instance) the IP payload will be reduced.

so i guess all that i'm saying is if a switch vendor says 9k bytes, they are always talking about the _ethernet_ frame size.

bcc
01-10-2006, 02:17 AM
I disagree, when folks refer to 9000 byte jumbo frames, they typically mean 9000 bytes available to layer 3 after minimal ethernet encapsulation (14 bytes). Just as 1500 mtu means 1500 bytes for layer 3, and the 'ifconfig mtu N' command on a unix ethernet interface means N bytes for IP.
BTW, newer netgear gs108/105 switches support jumbo frames, and their jumbo frames do not fall short of 9000 like SMC. I would recommend the netgear switches over SMC.
The following has some references supporting my point

http://sd.wareonearth.com/~phil/net/jumbo/

Jamie
01-10-2006, 10:22 AM
BTW, newer netgear gs108/105 switches support jumbo frames, and their jumbo frames do not fall short of 9000 like SMC. I would recommend the netgear switches over SMC.Too bad SMC cheapened the 850xT line. My older one deals with full 9000 byte IP frames just fine and I see >900Mbps linux-to-linux in netperf tests.

Have you used the netgear gs 108/105 yourself? I'm hesitant to recommend something just based on the paper spec without a first hand report.

bcc
01-11-2006, 01:33 AM
Yes, I have the netgear gs108; running 24x7. I've had it for a while so unfortunately I have the old revision that does not support jumbo frames. I've also read a couple reviews concerning its jumbo frame support indicating that it does actually work, and does not have the sub-9000 byte MTU limitation of the new SMCs. The form factor is better than SMC 8505/8t as well.

snoots
01-11-2006, 08:55 AM
I would like to say that the newer SMC switch works well on my home network and that my 2 HDTIVOS now fly when downloading shows. There may be a slight speed penalty for the above mentioned jumbo frame shortcoming of the newer SMC switch but my tytyool downloads speeds are shockingly fast after what I had in the past with the USB200M and Linksys GiGe switch non jumbo frames. I have only used the newer setup for about 2 weeks so I can't judge reliability yet but I'm very happy so far. I'm really glad I stumbled on the post describing the usb2 GIGe adapters and information. Thanks to all of you guys my Tivo's are smilin'

Snoots

joeblough
01-11-2006, 01:39 PM
I disagree, when folks refer to 9000 byte jumbo frames, they typically mean 9000 bytes available to layer 3 after minimal ethernet encapsulation (14 bytes). Just as 1500 mtu means 1500 bytes for layer 3, and the 'ifconfig mtu N' command on a unix ethernet interface means N bytes for IP.
BTW, newer netgear gs108/105 switches support jumbo frames, and their jumbo frames do not fall short of 9000 like SMC. I would recommend the netgear switches over SMC.
The following has some references supporting my point

http://sd.wareonearth.com/~phil/net/jumbo/

its not worth arguing about, but there is ethernet MTU and IP MTU. all of the ethernet macs i've ever designed don't care about the L3 payload. (there are other L3 protocols besides IP, you know) and the MTU registers only look at the L2 frame length. we only look at L3 lengths sometimes if the etype is 0x800, just to sanity check the frame length against the IP payload length.

the software looks at the IP MTU that's provided by the customer and translates that to the necessary ethernet MTU for the hardware.

i've only designed 2 gigabit ethernet macs, so i guess i don't know what i'm talking about. again, when we say 9000 bytes in our spec sheet, we're talking about the L2 frame length.

edit: oh yeah. the devices we are talking about here are switches, right? these are L2 switches, not L3 switches (routers). so i'd be very surprised if there was any logic in the chip that's IP-specific. when you are talking about a NIC, the same thing applies (its an L2 device) but since its in a computer and a computer operating system is actually an L7 device, its not surprising to have the MTU expressed in terms of L3 when talking about ifconfig or whatever other piece of software. given that IP is the dominant L3 protocol in the world today (and TCP/UDP are the dominant L4 protocols), its not really a stretch to talk about L3 MTUs in any context, but still, the hardware of an L2 switch (if properly designed) should know nothing about any other MTU than the L2 MTU.

also, jumbo frames are not really a "real" standard, only a de-facto one. the ethernet standard says 1518 bytes maximum. this is why so many vendors are different when it comes to jumbo frame lengths. in theory the jumbo frame support on the routers/switches i have worked on is actually 65535 bytes, but the software usually limits the MTU/MRUs to somewhere in the 9000 byte range. we were implementing this stuff before there were really any NICs that could do jumbo frames, and so we overshot the NIC guys considerably.