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View Full Version : Extracting to DVD-compliant MPEG2?



tomreedtoon
06-22-2004, 07:48 PM
I'm sorry if this is a duplicate of something...but this doesn't seem to work for me. And nothing I've found seems to explain it.

I have a Philips DSR704 v3.1.1c modified to provide output. I can extract files to my XP Professional Windows machine, follow the given advice and burn the files to DVD from within the program. BUT...

...frankly, I want something more than the bare-bones DVD menu. I also want to be able to combine the TyTool-extracted files with other DVD-compliant files I have.

How do I take the .ty file from Tytool and convert it into something my DVD authoring program can use without mis-encoding it? (I have both TMPGenc Author and Ulead's DVD authoring programs. TMPGenc won't accept anything but a regular MPEG-2 format file. Ulead will accept anything, but will take a day and a half to re-encode the file, leaving a starting-and-stopping, undesireable file.

And yes, I have tried different extractions from within TyTool. I get weird stuff like Video CD-sized files. I need to take the file to 720x480, 29.97 FPS to make a genuine DVD. And yes, I'd like the audio in sync, so if I have to use TMPGenc Plus, I know I have to extract the audio to a WAV file with something like Goldwave and recombine it while encoding.

Forgive the length of the post, but I want to forestall obvious questions, like why I need to have NTSC-standard frame rates (I live in the US). I realize (and have publicized) the one truth to this business; working with digital video is akin to experimental witchcraft. I am a long-time TV engineer and know the difference between a BNC connector and a Betacam SX tape, but working with this stuff is like a Muggle going to the first day of school at Hogwarts.

Waruwaru
06-23-2004, 02:56 AM
Check out this thread (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25261)

FredThompson
06-23-2004, 05:32 AM
That's a DirecTV receiver with TiVo. You cannot go to DVD-compliant MPEG2 without some serious reprocessing. Re-encoding will always lead to quality loss and takes a buttload of time for good results. When you've been around for a while, you'll probably change your mind.

However, if you insist on re-encoding, parse through DGMPGDec or you won't have a prayer of a good encode. Everything else will drop frames.

captain_video
06-23-2004, 08:37 AM
You can use the files from a DTivo with Ulead's DVD Workshop or DVD Movie Factory. Do a search on either program and you'll find a large thread that discusses it. There are some issues involved which is why I and probably many others have migrated over to DVD-Lab for creating DVDs with mpegs generated from DTivo ty files.

You'll need to patch the first header of your mpegs to 352X480 @3.5MBit using DVDPatcher for DVD-Lab to recognize the mpeg file and import it. If you select a higher bitrate then the file will mushroom to 3 or more times its original size and your compilation won't fit on a DVD. You may run into problems during the compilation process that will require you to re-edit the original ty file and make a new mpeg. Sometimes the authoring program doesn't like where you selected your cut points and simply hangs during the compile stage. This was an issue with older versions of TyTools that only had GOP accurate cuts so I don't know how it works with the current frame accurate versions.

If you are able to get the files to compile properly then you will need to go back and repatch all of the headers in the VOB files back to 480X480 @15MBit. If you don't then the DVD won't play back properly.

tomreedtoon
06-24-2004, 04:35 PM
Captain Video, the most thanks go to you, for explaining the process.

Fred Thompson, if it were only me looking at the menus, I wouldn't mind, but I'm doing this for friends. (No, I'm not mass-marketing stuff.) And sad to say, while the menus generated inside TyTool are...well, sort of functional...it's impossible to make them look halfway decent. (Just what the hell size BMP file do I have to make to get a picture that fills up the menu space, for instance? And when will the tool be upgraded to allow the menu buttons to have drop shadows so you can read the silly things?)

Having been through three video capture cards, none of which captured cable shows with any quality, I was stuned at what the DTivo did. I was even more stunned that TyTool can do frame-accurate edits on its weird-sized non-standard MPEG files. This current encoding business is a pain, yes, but I'm sure it's possible to make a REAL DVD with a REAL menu somehow. (I do have Ulead...I'll check what Captain Video says.)

Maybe someday someone will be able to modify the Tivo hardware to capture completely compliant 720x480 video - even if it takes more hard drive space for each show. Until then, we'll have to muddle through, somehow...

FredThompson
06-24-2004, 04:45 PM
Well, let's see...RTFM would be a good way to find out about TyTool or maybe, just maybe, you could scratch your noggin to figure out the dimensions of a full VIDEO frame to make your background bitmaps. Alternately, you could read the FAQ for TyTool.

You should also read my TyTool techniques thread (use the search function to find the thread, I don't remember the # OTTOMH)

DTiVos will never "capture" at a different resolution nor will it ever be DVD spec compliant as they store the signal as it comes from DirecTV.

You seem to be at the knowledge/experience level commonly referred to as "knowing enough to be dangerous."

tomreedtoon
06-28-2004, 03:20 PM
FredThompson, I'd read the manual if there WAS one. If you've been to the Tytool web site you'll find out it's got a lot of empty pages. And...no manual.

This is a common problem among tech types. They know what they're doing; they don't care if anyone else knows. So they don't write documentation. This is not to malign anyone here, but this is the most common disease in the electronics business. Whenever I go on vacation I always detail everything I do on my work shift at the TV station, and print copies for the people who are covering for me. They always thank me, because nobody else shows them that level of courtesy.

Partly it's that techs would rather work with equipment than sit down and write. Partly it's that they can't write; that's why technical writers make a living (and why their job is so tough, getting the answers from the techs who are already on the next project).

I know you guys get frustrated with us newbies asking questions that, to you gurus, seem dumb. You expect us to "RTFM." Well, may I timidly suggest that someone "WTFM" (WRITE the...et cetera). Searching throug 500 contradictory posts is not the best available answer...although it is an answer, and I will certainly do that.

FredThompson
06-28-2004, 03:29 PM
There is an organized FAQ. tytool.com has it and the links were supposed to be fixed. I don't maintain that site and, quite frankly, don't go there often at all. Perhaps malfunct will email a copy to you. I suggest you make a post to the main tytool thread asking where the faq are.

eastwind
06-28-2004, 06:04 PM
FredThompson, I'd read the manual if there WAS one. If you've been to the Tytool web site you'll find out it's got a lot of empty pages. And...no manual.

This is a common problem among tech types. They know what they're doing; they don't care if anyone else knows. So they don't write documentation. This is not to malign anyone here, but this is the most common disease in the electronics business. Whenever I go on vacation I always detail everything I do on my work shift at the TV station, and print copies for the people who are covering for me. They always thank me, because nobody else shows them that level of courtesy.

Partly it's that techs would rather work with equipment than sit down and write. Partly it's that they can't write; that's why technical writers make a living (and why their job is so tough, getting the answers from the techs who are already on the next project).

I know you guys get frustrated with us newbies asking questions that, to you gurus, seem dumb. You expect us to "RTFM." Well, may I timidly suggest that someone "WTFM" (WRITE the...et cetera). Searching throug 500 contradictory posts is not the best available answer...although it is an answer, and I will certainly do that.I just tried the link from TyTool9r14 to the FAQ and it is working. If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's on the Help menu. The "manual" you speak of is merely a collection of release notes and posts by the author in this forum. His name is jdiner and DealDatabase allows you to actually see all of his posts if you want to find out what he has to say about his work. One of the things he has said time and again is that he is doing this primarily for his own needs and that what he wants to get done is what will get done first. (paraphrasing) Anyone that doesn't like that can use something else or write their own tool. Other things that may or may not get done are things that he believes would be beneficial to the masses (not just to a few who want to do things their own way). He has taken the time to explain why DTiVo streams are hard to deal with and why they are not and never will be DVD compliant without re-encoding or DTV changing what they pipe out (currently mostly 480x480 in a modified, non-compliant MPEG-2 stream). As for finding out what size to make your BMP so it will fill the Menu Area...why not make a menu and check the attributes of the output in a graphics program (even MS Paint will tell you the attributes). Here's a hint....it's FULL D1. (Sorry, that was acutally the answer--not a HINT.) In short, read more and try to figure some of this stuff out on your own. Learning is part of the fun.

ew

Porterx
06-28-2004, 08:13 PM
As for finding out what size to make your BMP so it will fill the Menu Area...why not make a menu and check the attributes of the output in a graphics program (even MS Paint will tell you the attributes). Here's a hint....it's FULL D1. (Sorry, that was acutally the answer--not a HINT.) In short, read more and try to figure some of this stuff out on your own. Learning is part of the fun.

ew

Thanks, ew. That helped me out and I don't even know what FULL D1 is. Before, I've went out and found graphics that I wanted to use, stretched them (in paint), then went to tytools to see what it looked like. I kept doing this till i got it right. If I understand correctly, I would stretch until the graphic shows up in attributes at 720x480. Am I right or no?

Now, I have a question that I've not been able to find an answer to. What are the pixel values (left, top, right, bottom) of a tv with an aspect ratio of 4:3? And you know why I want to know.

Thank you,
Porter