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fyang
08-05-2004, 04:38 PM
Some people here have been talking about adding Closed Captions or Subtitles to DVDs from the tivo extractions (ty streams) for a while. Some gurus have already made it work. But there are not much details of how to do it.

I have tried tons of different software and approaches, and the experience was not very pleasant because of the tivo’s 480x480 non-standard MPEG streams and other compatibility issues. I have just recently figured out relatively efficient procedures to get it done, and hope this guide could be helpful for those who have the same interest.


Tools needed:

1. tytool: convert ty stream into vob files, cut out commercials, create IFO files and menu. Thanks jdiner for the great tool.

2. tydemux (modified version for scc by rung): extract closed caption data (Senarist SCC file) from ty stream.
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34436

3. ccasdi.exe: convert scc file into srt (SubRip) file
http://www.geocities.com/mcpoodle43/SCC_TOOLS/DOCS/SCC_TOOLS.HTML

4. InterVedio WinDVD 2000 or other DVD players on Windows: locate the srt sync points

5. subtitle workshop: adjust/edit srt file
http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=318

6. SubtitleCreator: convert srt into sup (SubPicture) file
http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=652

7. ReJig (NTSC) or VobEdit (PAL): add the subtitle data into vob
http://www.videohelp.com/tools?toolsearch=rejig
http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/vobedit.html

If you don’t need CC or subtitle in your DVD, the only tool you need is tytool and the following five steps, assuming you have already downloaded a testing ty streams from DTivo2: test.ty:

1. Make Key Files (test.ty.key)
2. Edit Key Files (test.ty.cut)
3. VOB-Mux Files (test.ty.vob, test.ty.vob.chp)
4. Create IFO Files/Dirs: (VIDEO_TS folder)
5. Burn the VIDEO_TS folder to DVD-R

To add the subtitles to DVD, all you need is to add some extra steps between step 3 and 4.

3.1 Use tytool to split the vob file generated at step 3 above (test.ty.vob.m2v, test.ty.vob.m2a)

3.2 Use tydemux to extract scc data (test.scc)
tydemux –s 2 –i test.ty –a temp.a –v temp.v –d test.scc
Note1: For tivo series one ty stream, use “–s 1” switch and “-c test.cut” switch, you may skip steps 3.4 and 3.5.
Note2: ty stream extracted by tytool and mfs_ftp will generate identical scc data at most time.

3.3 Use ccasdi.exe to get the human readable srt file (test.srt)
ccasdi –s test.scc

3.4 Use InterVedio WinDVD 2000 to play the test.ty.vob and locate a few sync points for test.srt
Note: subtitle workshop itself can also play vob files, but somehow it gives inconsistent sync points for ty.vob

3.5 Use subtitle workshop to edit the srt file (test.srt)
Adjust the timing using the sync points from 3.4.

3.6 Use SubtitleCreator to convert test.srt to test.sup file (test.sup)
Note: Please read the PDF file “Adding subtitles to a DVD without menus.pdf” came with the downloaded “subtitlecreator_v1_0.zip”. It is a very good and concise guide for the DVD subtitling process. SubtitleCreator has been just releases about a week ago, and it is much better than the old “srt2sup + supReMap” ways.

3.7 Use Rejig (for NTSC) to mux the following three files into a new vob file (VTS_01_1.VOB):
test.sup, test.ty.vob.m2v, test.ty.vob.m2a
Note: You can also mux multiple subtitles (for different languages) into the same vob if you like.

3.8 Overwrite test.ty.vob with the newly created VTS_01_1.VOB

3.9 Repeat 3.1 – 3.8 for other ty streams. I always use tytool to process multiple files at one time at steps 1, 2, 3, and 3.1.

3.10 Go to step 4 and 5 to finish your whole project.

So far I have used these approaches to process about 20 ty streams, and am quite satisfied with the results.

If you know a better way of doing this, please let me know.
I could also put a longer version here a few days later if someone needs more details. (Forgive me if I do not respond quickly, my two young kids occupy most of my free time.)

fyang
08-06-2004, 09:49 AM
The previous thread is for adding only SUBTITLES to DVD, not for Closed Caption. Sorry I lied in the title. I had tried to add closed caption to DVD using DVD Maestro, and it worked a few times. But sometime Maestro complained errors such as “GOP temporal reference”. My original goal was to add Closed Caption, but later I realized that subtitle has many advantages over CC.

Anyway, if you prefer to go with CC. Below is a short version:

6.1. Use subrip2scc to convert test.srt (from step 3.5) back to test.scc (test.scc)
Note1: subrip2scc can be found at tool 3.
Note2: You will lost all your CC positioning information and special characters (such as the music symbols) after this scc->srt->scc conversion. The original scc file created by tydemux keeps all those info.

6.2. Use DvdPatcher_v106.exe to fix the header info of test.ty.vob.m2v, ie., change it from 480x480 to 720x480. (test.ty.vob.m2v)

6.3. Use Maestro to put all your scc/m2v/m2a files together, and to create menu and DVD author and generate VIDEO_TS folder.
Note: Maestro seems not very friendly with tivo m2v file, but it still works some time. (Worse yet, some other DVD authoring tools for CC don’t even take tivo mpeg stream.) If you have trouble to bring your m2v into Maestro, try to generate the m2v file using other software such as tydemux, tmpgenc, etc. Have a good luck.

6.4. Burn the VIDEO_TS folder to DVD-R.

lenroc
08-06-2004, 02:57 PM
The previous thread is for adding only SUBTITLES to DVD, not for Closed Caption. Sorry I lied in the title.

So the difference is that Closed Captions are handled by the TV, but Subtitles are handled by the DVD player, right?

Are the Subtitles created in this method selectable by the DVD player, though?

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write up your steps! I will have to try them the next time I make a DVD. As a bonus, it looks like all the tools necessary (with the possible exception of the Windows based DVD player?) are free (as in beer).

fyang
08-08-2004, 11:57 AM
So the difference is that Closed Captions are handled by the TV, but Subtitles are handled by the DVD player, right?

That's right.

The DVD subtitle is selectable. For example, if you add two subtitles (english and french) to the dvd, pressing the "subtitle" button on the dvd remote will let you go through the cycle english->french->off->english. "off" means no subtitle, of course.

DVD supports 8 selectable audio tracks and 32 selectable subtitles on a single DVD disk.

lenroc
08-11-2004, 05:48 PM
Ok, I finally had some time to play with this. I had a few questions though:


3.2 Use tydemux to extract scc data (test.scc)
tydemux –s 2 –i test.ty –a temp.a –v temp.v –d test.scc

Here you take the original .ty as the input to tydemux. This seems to create an .scc file with closed captions from the entire program, not just from the part of the movie that I saved. (In other words, the .vob is shorter in duration than the .ty, because I cut some commercials and 'fluff' out, but the .scc I make from the .ty has the captions from the entire program...)

Is there any way to make an .scc from the VOB instead? Or how do you handle the extra data in the .scc?


3.4 Use InterVedio WinDVD 2000 to play the test.ty.vob and locate a few sync points for test.srt
Note: subtitle workshop itself can also play vob files, but somehow it gives inconsistent sync points for ty.vob

3.5 Use subtitle workshop to edit the srt file (test.srt)
Adjust the timing using the sync points from 3.4.


Any tips on this? My copy of WinDVD doesn't seem to play the subtitles when I feed it the VOB (I don't know if this is expected or not. I couldn't find WinDVD 2000 so I am using a demo of WinDVD 6...). Am I supposed to play the VOB in WinDVD and just listen for the correct places for the subtitles to be?

rung
08-12-2004, 04:24 AM
Here you take the original .ty as the input to tydemux. This seems to create an .scc file with closed captions from the entire program, not just from the part of the movie that I saved. (In other words, the .vob is shorter in duration than the .ty, because I cut some commercials and 'fluff' out, but the .scc I make from the .ty has the captions from the entire program...)

Yes, my mod of tydemux will accept a cut file from tystudio when you use the scc output option. Also, if you use the cut file parameter, it will not output the video and audio files so no need to put those parameters in then. The cut files from tystudio and tytools are different but I wouldn't think it would be hard to write a converter between the types. Alternatively, you can use tystudio to open the ty and recreate the cut points and just save the cut file and exit.

fyang
08-13-2004, 10:24 AM
Am I supposed to play the VOB in WinDVD and just listen for the correct places for the subtitles to be?
Yes, that is the way to find the sync points.

The only reason I recommended WinDVD player is because I have a few software installed on my computer which can play vob file but only WinDVD gives consistent results. Indeed, you can use ANY software or harware DVD player (as long as it works for you) to find the sync points and write them down, and MANUALLY edit your test.srt file at step 3.5.

The CC data is discarded at step 3 when tytool generates the vob file, so you can not use tydemux to extract the scc from the vob files.

In case you cut off some commercials, you have to do a time shift for those affected parts in your srt file at step 3.5. Subtitle Workshop is handy for this.

fyang
08-13-2004, 10:58 AM
Yes, my mod of tydemux will accept a cut file from tystudio when you use the scc output option. Also, if you use the cut file parameter, it will not output the video and audio files so no need to put those parameters in then. The cut files from tystudio and tytools are different but I wouldn't think it would be hard to write a converter between the types. Alternatively, you can use tystudio to open the ty and recreate the cut points and just save the cut file and exit.

Yes tydemux accepts a cut file created by tyeditor. For those of you have the tivo S1 ty streams, you can simply replace the steps 1, 2, 3, 3.1, 3.2 by the following two steps:
7.1 Use tyeditor to get the cut file (test.ty.cut)

7.2 Use tydemux to get scc/m2v/m2a files
tydemux -s1 -i test.ty -c test.ty.cut -v test.ty.m2v -a test.ty.m2a
tydemux -s1 -i test.ty -c test.ty.cut -d test.ty.scc


But for S2 ty streams, tyeditor will crash on M$ Windows. To fix that, there is patch to modify "index_edit.c". I had some problems to compile tyeditor.exe using the VC6 projects from tystudio. It was easy to compile tystudio to get the tyeditor executable with the fix under red hat linux 9, but there are some other issues. Anyway, I gave up the tyeditor even though it was my first choice at the beginning.

If anyone can write a tool to convert tytool's cut file into tystudio's cut file, that would be great.

rung
08-13-2004, 04:33 PM
tydemux -s1 -i test.ty -c test.ty.cut -v test.ty.m2v -a test.ty.m2a
tydemux -s1 -i test.ty -c test.ty.cut -d test.ty.scc

Actually, for series one boxes, you use "-s 2" param as well. The param "-s 1" was for pre-3.0 streams.

There is a modified and compiled tyindex for the MIPs/Series 2 posted here on DD somewhere. If you run that on your TiVo, you can make the cut files from the ty on your TiVo instead of the local file.

Also, I wouldn't recommend the first command with the cut file. Better to cut with tytool or at the mpeg level. Tydemux can have audio sync problems when using a cut file.

skmeier
03-13-2005, 08:19 AM
Thanks to fyang and rung for this thread! I recently bought my first DVD burner and made some DVDs using tytools, but my wife refuses to watch programs without captioning. Your procedure has rescued me from despair :)

One question though: the subtitles produced this way look perfect when I play the DVD with my dvd player on the TV. But when I play it on my PC with the PowerDVD software player, the subtitles are way too big, and extend off the edge of the screen. Any idea why this should happen, and what can I do about it?

Thanks again

skmeier
03-13-2005, 08:48 AM
Oh and another thing I noticed:

The display times on some of the subtitles produced with this procedure were coming out very very short, i.e. a few 100 milliseconds or less, such that they were not really visible on the screen.

Fortunately, I eventually realized that SubtitleWorkshop provides tools to fix this problem. Just use Edit->timings->Set Duration Limits set a minimum duration of 1 to 2 seconds, and hit apply. Problem solved.

subtitle workshop also provides tools to detect and fix other errors, just hit control-I. You may want to hit the "settings" button to choose which types of errors to detect or ignore.

lenroc
03-13-2005, 07:31 PM
when I play it on my PC with the PowerDVD software player, the subtitles are way too big, and extend off the edge of the screen. Any idea why this should happen, and what can I do about it?

Just a shot in the dark, but is there a font setting for the program?

skmeier
03-13-2005, 10:17 PM
Just a shot in the dark, but is there a font setting for the program?

Alas, there is a font setting, but it only affects the program's own on-screen display, it has no effect on the subtitles.

rung
03-14-2005, 06:37 AM
One question though: the subtitles produced this way look perfect when I play the DVD with my dvd player on the TV. But when I play it on my PC with the PowerDVD software player, the subtitles are way too big, and extend off the edge of the screen. Any idea why this should happen, and what can I do about it?

Thanks again

From the PowerDVD manual on "Configuration, Information, Display Information" :
• Surface Type: The default commonly used that supports
display captions is “overlay”, “Hardware Video Accelerator”
or “Hardware Video Accelerator (DxVA)”. Occasionally, it
may display “off-screen”. It is recommended that you either
lower your screen resolution, reduce color depth, or reinstall
Microsoft DirectX to make overlay mode available for
optimal performance.
Note: We recommend using DDraw compliant display cards to
utilize the Overlay feature.

So it sounds like this feature is adaptor and DirectX dependent.

skmeier
03-19-2005, 09:06 AM
From the PowerDVD manual on "Configuration, Information, Display Information" :

So it sounds like this feature is adaptor and DirectX dependent.

Thanks rung, that was a good hint. I realized I had a rather old version of PowerDVD. Tried a newer version, which doesn't have the same problem.