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tbellomo
08-06-2004, 11:32 AM
You know, I've been following this whole fight for a while, reading back on old posts, and trying to figure out where things went so horribly wrong.

Honestly, as an independant third party, Sleeper got the raw end of the deal. Hey -- maybe you guys (mods) know something I don't; but you really do come of as arrogant & condescending when you post back and forth with Sleeper and the like.

I don't know guys, to me, it did seem like there was a big double-standard, and that Sleeper wasn't treated fairly.

Maybe I'm condemning myself by saying this, but in case you wanted an honest opinion, this was just how one average Joe saw it played out.

Maybe others saw it differently...

nsysblh
08-06-2004, 12:45 PM
I agree with what you are saying. I believe you are correct.

However, sleeper should have known the score and went elsewhere to get his word out.

With more and more colorful characters being shown the door, the number of interesting threads is going down. Only support and development threads will be left.

malfunct
08-06-2004, 01:11 PM
With more and more colorful characters being shown the door, the number of interesting threads is going down. Only support and development threads will be left.

Considering that this forum is supposed to be about support and development that doesn't seem to be a problem.

alldeadhomiez
08-06-2004, 01:27 PM
I don't know guys, to me, it did seem like there was a big double-standard, and that Sleeper wasn't treated fairly.

I agree 100%. Since a few of us used to be on good terms with Sleeper, he was given a lot more chances than he probably deserved.

He really wasn't a bad guy to work with, but he became extremely arrogant around the time he and Tiros worked on the HR10-250. Meanwhile, other groups far surpassed their (trivial) accomplishment, and posted logs to prove it. When we refused to allow non-technical flamebait/flamewars to be posted in the development forums, per our standard policy, he became angry and began to bash us at every opportunity.

At any rate, the decision has been made and the subject is closed for public discussion. If you have something to say, send me a PM.

Tiros
08-06-2004, 03:50 PM
I agree 100%. Since a few of us used to be on good terms with Sleeper, he was given a lot more chances than he probably deserved.

He really wasn't a bad guy to work with, but he became extremely arrogant around the time he and Tiros worked on the HR10-250. Meanwhile, other groups far surpassed their (trivial) accomplishment, and posted logs to prove it. When we refused to allow non-technical flamebait/flamewars to be posted in the development forums, per our standard policy, he became angry and began to bash us at every opportunity.

At any rate, the decision has been made and the subject is closed for public discussion. If you have something to say, send me a PM.

As always there are two sides to a story.
For such a "trivial" hack it certainly did create a stir!
This thread has already debated this subject at length:

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35241

There is a lesson here. Glory is a good thing, in fact it's really the only reward there is with something like this. There is no need to be ashamed of glory being your motivator. If you did the work you are entitled. To maximize your reward you have to package up your stuff so that everyone can use it. Yea, I know, developers don't have to do anything they don't want to, be grateful for what we give you etc, learn linux, read the forum etc. etc. IMHO the measure a great a hack is determined by the quantity of people using it.

Sleeper packed up all the loose ends around here in an easy to use ISO. The authors of the "meat" of his script were deprived of thier rightfull recognition and noteriaty. Sleeper got the glory. I honestly believe that this was not his intent. He was actually just trying to help. He wanted people here to like him.

I understand fully why that pissed some people off. The popularity of his script overshadowed the work of the "meat" that was the real hack. If I was responsible for that "meat" I would have been pissed too. I don't think anyone predicted this would happen. It just did. I fully appreciate why some people feel robbed. This copyright issue is clearly targeted at preventing this from happening again.

The HD prom exploit was looking like the similar events were about to replay, backs were already up, and the war began. How ironic that niether Sleeper, ADH, or HD Team can take credit for the original work performed by Musclenerd.

My guess is that both Sleeper and ADH have had enough of each other.
Since ADH is a mod, he gets the last word.
I regret to see that it has come to this.

SledgeHammer
08-06-2004, 04:08 PM
From reading lots of posts from both sides (about Sleeper and not about Sleeper). It would seem that some people have a big problem with the "spoon feeding" that Sleepers ISO gave. Those people believe you should have an intimate knowledge of what is going on before you have the "right" to hack your Tivo rather then blindly follow guides or click a few buttons and have everything done for you.

I think Sleeper TRIED to maintain some middle ground there as the script sort of told you what was going on as you went along in an attempt to educate the user.

But I have seen a lot of negative reaction to both sleepers iso and guides not because "the person using it has no idea whats going on", but because "it makes it too easy".

There has to be a middle ground between having it all handed to you in a script and having to sift through literally tens of thousands of posts.

Tiros
08-06-2004, 04:28 PM
Considering that this forum is supposed to be about support and development that doesn't seem to be a problem.

Unless it drives away would be developers who dont mind sharing thier hacks :(

tbellomo
08-06-2004, 04:30 PM
I think the ISO eliminated a lot of potential headaches for the "meat & potatoes" developers. Sleeper had to support his own ISO, and it seems like a lot of the repetitive newb questions were transferred from their plates to Sleepers.

Isn't that a good thing in the long run?

--Timo

nsysblh
08-06-2004, 04:42 PM
Unless it drives away would be developers who dont mind sharing thier hacks :(

Some would say this is not a problem. I'm unsure of their reasoning. But, I do respect their position relative to mine.

PlainBill
08-06-2004, 05:30 PM
From reading lots of posts from both sides (about Sleeper and not about Sleeper). It would seem that some people have a big problem with the "spoon feeding" that Sleepers ISO gave. Those people believe you should have an intimate knowledge of what is going on before you have the "right" to hack your Tivo rather then blindly follow guides or click a few buttons and have everything done for you.

I think Sleeper TRIED to maintain some middle ground there as the script sort of told you what was going on as you went along in an attempt to educate the user.

But I have seen a lot of negative reaction to both sleepers iso and guides not because "the person using it has no idea whats going on", but because "it makes it too easy".

There has to be a middle ground between having it all handed to you in a script and having to sift through literally tens of thousands of posts.

It doesn't take a genius to notice several standards for behavior here. It's sort of like 'Animal Farm' - all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. Someone includes a slur about Sleepers sexual orientation and gets an encrypted message - but apparently wasn't banned. This same person posts a number of scripts with names that are a play on TiVoScripts and Sleeper and nothing is done. One person who complained is banned. Sleeper suggests politness should be expected of everyone - and is bashed.

I've seen several criticisms of Sleeper and his iso (TiVoScripts).

A few (DB in particular, and his 'offspring' derided it because it wasn't perfect. True, but it was a heck of a lot better than trying to follow broken links, searching for files which no longer existed to perform hacks which were already outdated.

Others (myself included) complained about the large number of clueless newbies flooding the board. On the other hand, there were a lot of not so clueless newbies that used TivoScipts to do the initial Monte, then quickly learned the 'meat' - usually extraction.

Like you, I have noticed there were complaints that it made the process too easy. Personally, I prefer a documented procedure that helps you understand WHY you are doing a particular operation. At one point I obtained a procedure "How to Monte". It consisted of a series of steps you were expected to follow, including long command lines without a shred of explanation of WHY you were doing this. If you screwed up, you had no idea what went wrong - just like with TiVoScripts.

And lastly, am I the only one who noticed the jibes directed at Sleeper BECAUSE of the popularity of his script? It certainly seemed there were some jealous people, even including at least one moderator.

PlainBill

psxboy
08-06-2004, 05:59 PM
First off, let me just say that I don't know what went on behind the scenes between Sleeper and the various mods. That's between them and no one else, as far as I'm concerned.

I had been trolling these boards for close to a year, watching the monte developments mostly, and trying to decide whether I should take the plunge and try to gain access to my SAS2 or not. Being relatively new to the Tivo phenomenon, I was understandably both in love with my new toy and scared to death about hosing it all up if something went wrong during my attempts to monte it.

Then, after a short hiatus, I returned to find the Tivoscripts thread. That was the bump I needed to give me the confidence to proceed. Even then, I read through the entire thread (70-some odd pages back then) and did several dry-runs in a virtual machine before I proceeded to do it for real. Since then I've learned a lot about my Tivo and how it operates, learned enough about TCL to add thumbs and some other home-brewed code to TivoWebPlus, and have generally become much happier with my favorite toy.

When the next software update came down the pipeline, I had a pretty good idea from reading the various threads on how I wanted to handle it. But I went back to Sleeper's scripts and used those as a guide to fill in the gaps as far as what was supposed to go where, etc. Now I have an ever better understanding of the layout and purpose of the partitions, what binaries come stock with the Tivo's OS and what needs to be added after the fact, etc.

I can sort of see the logic in the "it makes it too easy for the uninitiated masses" argument, but in my case Sleeper's ISO was the jumping point from which I learned everything else. I realize that there are probably a lot more people that will just use these "instant cake" utilities to achieve an end result than there are people that would actually take away some knowledge from them, but from my perspective they do serve a useful purpose.

Anyway, I just wanted to add my 2 cents to the argument.

-psxboy

alldeadhomiez
08-06-2004, 06:12 PM
Well, what can we say...

Sleeper knew better than to shoot off his mouth at the mods. In fact, he's seen enough of his buddies get penalty boxed or banned for it. He's also done his fair share of bashing, yet expected that anybody who disrespected him in public would be dealt with harshly. Although we don't like to get in the middle between feuding users, we have intervened on his behalf many times (most recently when the "sleeper is a homo" comment was posted) yet he still claims bias. Don't fall for the ruse.

The TivoScripts ISO was not an inherently evil tool; on the contrary, it proved useful for thousands of members. However, Sleeper, in his effort to make (fake) friends here, tried to market it to "everybody" and misrepresented the level of knowledge needed to use it successfully. In reality, you really do need a reasonably strong troubleshooting/technical background to fix the inevitable problems that come up. What did Sleeper do when inexperienced users had trouble? He added text to his signature saying essentially, "don't bother me about problems you're having with TivoScripts, bother DDB instead." He caused a problem and was unwilling to deal with the consequences himself. Is this why he was banned? Not at all, but we didn't appreciate it - especially when we saw our own research and code being used, without credit, in a way that lowered the overall quality of discussion and diluted our community. We have no interest in pandering to people with no computer background, and do not have the means to spoon feed them when they have problems. If somebody really has no clue, they can either find a friend who does or hire a reputable third party to do the work and support it. Either way, this isn't the place for them, and it wasn't our intent when the original hacks were posted.

Anyway, this sort of BS is precisely why so many hacks are released under restrictive licenses now. Developers who wouldn't have given licensing a second thought now face the sobering reality that people can and will use their hard work to promote an unreasonable agenda. Hacking tools like TivoScripts or killhdinitrd will come and go, but distrust is here to stay. That, more than anything else, will characterize Sleeper's legacy.

alldeadhomiez
08-06-2004, 06:21 PM
As always there are two sides to a story.
For such a "trivial" hack it certainly did create a stir!
This thread has already debated this subject at length:

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35241

There is a lesson here. Glory is a good thing, in fact it's really the only reward there is with something like this. There is no need to be ashamed of glory being your motivator. If you did the work you are entitled. To maximize your reward you have to package up your stuff so that everyone can use it. Yea, I know, developers don't have to do anything they don't want to, be grateful for what we give you etc, learn linux, read the forum etc. etc. IMHO the measure a great a hack is determined by the quantity of people using it.

The trivial hack I was referring to was your PROM socketing and shell on the HR10-250. Again, congratulations for figuring it out, but we can all admit it was quite straightforward since the groundwork had been laid a long time ago.

There was no excuse for you, Sleeper, THREAD CLOSED, et al. to turn the HD tech thread into a flamewar. The development forums are not and never were the proper venues for unsubstantiated bragging or fighting, no matter what your history or rivalries with HD TeAm or TC were.

tbellomo
08-06-2004, 06:50 PM
I knew that all Sleeper did was tie the package together. He never tried to horde the credit for the meat. As for his signature: he heavily support the thread. I think the main purpose of the sig was to make sure assistance was offered where everyone else can see it; in the forum... come on, adh, this is common, and it makes sense.


TivoScripts or killhdinitrd will come and go, but distrust is here to stay. That, more than anything else, will characterize Sleeper's legacy.

I really don't think so; maybe the "elite" will see it that way...

but for everyone else -- I think you've basically created a martyr.

--Timo

rc3105
08-06-2004, 07:26 PM
anybody else remember back to Canadian Card Cleaners & Extreme 2.5?

hero abuse & profiteering are NOT new issues :rolleyes:


sleeper knew he was opening a can of worms, if not, he certainly should have

splitsec
08-06-2004, 07:49 PM
I, for one, will miss Sleeper's contributions to the community.

Enough said.

Split

alldeadhomiez
08-06-2004, 08:06 PM
I knew that all Sleeper did was tie the package together. He never tried to horde the credit for the meat. As for his signature: he heavily support the thread. I think the main purpose of the sig was to make sure assistance was offered where everyone else can see it; in the forum... come on, adh, this is common, and it makes sense.

Asking people to keep their support questions in the forum is common and makes sense.

Intentionally misrepresenting the difficulty of the hacking endeavor is also common, but it does not make sense. If he wants to do so and then list his email address or phone number to deal with the support problems, fine, but what he did instead was create a problem and then drop it in our lap.


I really don't think so; maybe the "elite" will see it that way...

but for everyone else -- I think you've basically created a martyr.


mar·tyr (märtr)
n.

1. One who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles.
2. One who makes great sacrifices or suffers much in order to further a belief, cause, or principle.
3.
1. One who endures great suffering: a martyr to arthritis.
2. One who makes a great show of suffering in order to arouse sympathy.

Definition 3.2 is "RIGHT ON!" Sleeper's attempts to paint himself as a victim remind me of the suicide by cop (http://www.oregoncounseling.org/ArticlesPapers/Documents/SuicideByCop.htm) phenomenon.

Tiros
08-06-2004, 09:18 PM
Asking people to keep their support questions in the forum is common and makes sense.

Intentionally misrepresenting the difficulty of the hacking endeavor is also common, but it does not make sense. If he wants to do so and then list his email address or phone number to deal with the support problems, fine, but what he did instead was create a problem and then drop it in our lap.

If this is the primary cause for his ban/hatred how come there has never been a single post complaining about sleeper not answering questions or supporting his threads? He in fact did support his ISO in forum. He wanted users to see the questions and answers to avoid redundancy.
He also has maintained other information in other threads not relevant to his ISO just to help users find things easier and organize some stuff. He posts answers to questions in lots of other threads too. I think most objective people will agree he did more good than harm.

I really don't see how increased traffic has hurt this board or the hobby.
Maybe you just don't want new developers here.
Are you afraid of losing your crown?

Maybe his behavior was sometimes inappropriate.
Maybe other behavior has been too.

alldeadhomiez
08-06-2004, 10:00 PM
If this is the primary cause for his ban/hatred how come there has never been a single post complaining about sleeper not answering questions or supporting his threads?

Who said that had anything to do with his ban? He was banned for repeatedly harassing the staff and spreading false accusations.

I can't speak on behalf of the haters. Ask them yourself - they're not hard to find.


He in fact did support his ISO in forum. He wanted users to see the questions and answers to avoid redundancy.
He also has maintained other information in other threads not relevant to his ISO just to help users find things easier and organize some stuff. He posts answers to questions in lots of other threads too. I think most objective people will agree he did more good than harm.

Many people here felt the same way about David Bought, but in the end, it was decided that keeping things civil was more important than any technical knowledge he was able to contribute. After several warnings, Sleeper found himself in the same situation, and we were forced to ban him.


I really don't see how increased traffic has hurt this board or the hobby.
Maybe you just don't want new developers here.
Are you afraid of losing your crown?

I like to see new users who can think for themselves and figure things out. I'm hopeful that at least a few Linux gurus who came here from Slashdot this week will stay and get involved.

Although Sleeper preferred to attract users of a much lower caliber than what we prefer, he did not break any rules in doing so and therefore it had no bearing on how we treated him.


Maybe his behavior was sometimes inappropriate.
Maybe other behavior has been too.

Like yours, for instance.

malfunct
08-06-2004, 11:18 PM
Sleepers biggest problem is the fact that instead of giving up on being "right" he pushed the issue and in a childish way. I liked tivoscripts even for the problems it brought (and it did) but it doesn't excuse the attitude he got at the end.

PlainBill
08-07-2004, 12:28 AM
Well, what can we say...

<SNIP>

The TivoScripts ISO was not an inherently evil tool; on the contrary, it proved useful for thousands of members. However, Sleeper, in his effort to make (fake) friends here, tried to market it to "everybody" and misrepresented the level of knowledge needed to use it successfully. In reality, you really do need a reasonably strong troubleshooting/technical background to fix the inevitable problems that come up. What did Sleeper do when inexperienced users had trouble? He added text to his signature saying essentially, "don't bother me about problems you're having with TivoScripts, bother DDB instead." He caused a problem and was unwilling to deal with the consequences himself. Is this why he was banned? Not at all, but we didn't appreciate it - especially when we saw our own research and code being used, without credit, in a way that lowered the overall quality of discussion and diluted our community. We have no interest in pandering to people with no computer background, and do not have the means to spoon feed them when they have problems. If somebody really has no clue, they can either find a friend who does or hire a reputable third party to do the work and support it. Either way, this isn't the place for them, and it wasn't our intent when the original hacks were posted.

Anyway, this sort of BS is precisely why so many hacks are released under restrictive licenses now. Developers who wouldn't have given licensing a second thought now face the sobering reality that people can and will use their hard work to promote an unreasonable agenda. Hacking tools like TivoScripts or killhdinitrd will come and go, but distrust is here to stay. That, more than anything else, will characterize Sleeper's legacy.

I think you seriously overestimate the knowledge required to run and 'inevitable problems' resulting from TiVoScripts. Granted I may be an atypical user, but the first time I used it, it worked perfectly. On other ocassions I screwed up and it didn't. In every case, the fault was with me - usually because I was trying to get it to do things it wasn't intended to do. The biggest problem is with 'users' who refuse to read the su[pport thread, or don't have a clue as to how to follow them. IMHO, if it wasn't TiVoScripts, they'd expect the same handholding when trying to do the Monte manually.

This is not to say TiVoScripts could not have been improved. Certainly it could have given more information as to WHAT and WHY it was doing. The hacks it installs are now seriously out of date.

If you are going to target Sleeper for his 'Don't PM me... signature, you'd better take a good look around. A large number of the experts have similar signatures.

I find you 'diluting the community' argument interesting. On one hand you have someone like psxboy who siezed upon TiVoScripts, used it to hack his TiVo, then went beyond it, and is now helping others. On the other hand, there are certainly many 'users' (I won't name names) :) who seemed to have problems following the most rudimentary steps.

One point that just occured to me. My first experience with hacking a TiVo was a Series 1 and 25Xtreme. While I won't claim that 'any ***** could do it', it certainly was easier than TiVoScripts. Was that a product that originated here, or elsewhere?

PlainBill

PlainBill
08-07-2004, 12:35 AM
Sleepers biggest problem is the fact that instead of giving up on being "right" he pushed the issue and in a childish way. I liked tivoscripts even for the problems it brought (and it did) but it doesn't excuse the attitude he got at the end.

I hope you realise that while much may have been going on behind the scenes, this user saw very little 'Attitude' on Sleeper's part, and plenty from others.

PlainBill

malfunct
08-07-2004, 12:45 AM
I hope you realise that while much may have been going on behind the scenes, this user saw very little 'Attitude' on Sleeper's part, and plenty from others.

PlainBill

Yeah, it was only about 4 or so posts here in the sewer that I remember but they really disappointed me considering what I'd seen from him in the past.

NutKase
08-07-2004, 02:30 AM
IMHO, if it wasn't TiVoScripts, they'd expect the same handholding when trying to do the Monte manually.

If they're willing, I am willing.

My only arguement is that if people read and learn enough to manually monte their tivos, they won't ask for help so often since, they will help themselves more often that not.

NutKase

mrblack51
08-07-2004, 12:28 PM
Someone includes a slur about Sleepers sexual orientation and gets an encrypted message - but apparently wasn't banned. This same person posts a number of scripts with names that are a play on TiVoScripts and Sleeper and nothing is done. One person who complained is banned. Sleeper suggests politness should be expected of everyone - and is bashed.

that "someone" was asked to change the names of his scripts at various points, and was put in the penalty box for that particular encrypted message. to suggest that nothing was done is simply inaccurate

alldeadhomiez
08-07-2004, 01:29 PM
I think you seriously overestimate the knowledge required to run and 'inevitable problems' resulting from TiVoScripts.

Sleeper's stated goal was to make a package that lets the "average joe on the street" hack his Series2. He failed at that, and refused to take responsibility for it.

Our goal is not and never was to offer hacking advice to the "average joe on the street." We will come out and say that there is a certain minimal level of competence with technology (and/or willingness to learn) you will need to be successful. This board is for learning and sharing, not spoonfeeding.

Does that mean we will turn people away or close the Newbie forum? Absolutely not. But it does mean that we believe in being honest with new users about what they will need to learn or know.

Tiros
08-07-2004, 02:14 PM
Who changed the name of this post and why?

alldeadhomiez
08-07-2004, 02:24 PM
Who changed the name of this post and why?

You got a problem with it?

I really hope you aren't questioning moderator decisions.. after all it would be a terrible shame to lose such an "asset" as yourself. :rolleyes:

Tiros
08-07-2004, 04:16 PM
You got a problem with it?

I really hope you aren't questioning moderator decisions.. after all it would be a terrible shame to lose such an "asset" as yourself. :rolleyes:

Not a problem, just curious as to what was wrong with the original title and if a mod had changed it. Usually a reason is given when a thread is renamed/split. I didn't see anything in violation of forum rules that would require mod intervention.
I guess you answered my question.

You keep harping about how he "dumped" all these "problems" on DDB, yet no one but you (and your main "fanboy") has ever supported that position by posting a complaint. You say that "we didn't appreciate it" and "it had no bearing on how we treated him". BWAHAHAHA give me a break, even the casual user knows what a crock this is. Your actions prove otherwise. You then compare his behaviour to David Bought, saying "he (Sleeper) found himself in the same situation, and we were forced to ban him."
Same Situation?
Please provide links to ANY requests asking for the ban of Sleeper, even one. There were many request to ban DB and he alienated/attacked many a user her before his (haha) ban. I notice that you make liberal use of "we" and "our" in your postings, yet I can't seem to find any posts other than yours to back these accusations/opinions.

When you realize that that story line was bogus and unsupported you then say that he was banned for "repeatedly harassing the staff and spreading false accusations." Why was Sleeper doing this? Think about it, there must have been SOME reason an otherwise HIGHLY PRODUCTIVE user goes on a rampage. I see only one staff member that has a REAL problem, if there are others they are notably silent. I'm not talking minor spats. You are the only one to go into full knock down drag 'em out mode here. If things get too hot you flex your admin muscle. Usually with some kind of unsubstantiated this is "hurting" the board rationalization. If Sleeper really caused all these problems where are the posts (other than yours) complaining about it? You have been dying to ban him/me for a while now and I suspect the other more rational thinking mods here have protected him from you. The recent minor spat with Riley was probably all you needed to tip the scales your way.

Congratulations! You got what you wanted!
If you respond point by point don't forget these questions:
Is the board better for everyone now, or just for you?
In what tangible way has this ban improved the board for it's members?
This is clearly an act of self gratification.

I have never have attacked a user for no reason. When someone says something about me, provokes me, or references my post I will respond. My only problems here were have been with you and your sidekick. You always seem to be the first to respond to anything I post. Noticeably you fail to respond to other people, who you like better, that make the same points as I.
Why don't you respond to PlainBill and answer his post point by point and get off my back!

I know your finger is twitching on that ban button right now.
I hope you don't. You don't have to. I'm not hurting the board.
If you do you it will only serve to prove my point.

rc3105
08-07-2004, 06:24 PM
re sleeper:

just for the record I had a MAJOR problem with sleeper - dealt with it in PM

he included my sw without even a courtesy "do you mind?"

the copy was corrupted + one of the binaries was bad.

he had NO idea how to install or fix things when IT DESTROYED PEOPLE'S TIVOS

who do you think had to clean up that mess?

a simple courtesy msg could have avoided a LOT of grief :mad:


-----


re Tiros:

fine, you're a sleeper fan. we get that. I'm sure he'll have a HUGE following on TCF if he can play nice

ddb is NOT govt funded - you're a GUEST

MOD decisions are NOT subject to review by members - you & sleeper don't seem to get that. got a beef or a suggestion PM works great. believe it or not we discuss this stuff

what you're doing now is ANNOYING the nice people who VOLOUNTEER their time to manage this mess (tired of hearing it 'n I'm not even the one you're attacking)

take a few weeks off to ponder whether that's really how you want to spend your time

alldeadhomiez
08-07-2004, 07:04 PM
Although the Sleeper ban is not up for debate, I will detail the reasons why he was removed to correct the FUD that Tiros posted:

repeated accusations against moderators and other users (e.g. the "HD TeAm" accusations)

repeated disrespect toward moderators and other users (e.g. calling us "dicks" and telling us to "f uck ourselves")

questioning moderator decisions and board policies on multiple occasions, in public (see his recent posts)


Despite our philosophical differences, I would have liked for Sleeper to remain a member here. We really don't like to ban people. Unfortunately, he proved himself unable to play by the rules after being warned to shape up many, many times.

Sleeper Lives
09-26-2011, 12:34 AM
Although the Sleeper ban is not up for debate, I will detail the reasons why he was removed to correct the FUD that Tiros posted:

repeated accusations against moderators and other users (e.g. the "HD TeAm" accusations)

repeated disrespect toward moderators and other users (e.g. calling us "dicks" and telling us to "f uck ourselves")

questioning moderator decisions and board policies on multiple occasions, in public (see his recent posts)


Despite our philosophical differences, I would have liked for Sleeper to remain a member here. We really don't like to ban people. Unfortunately, he proved himself unable to play by the rules after being warned to shape up many, many times.

Funny, after 7 years, I don't remember it that way. Apparently neither do many of the posters here.

My objective was to make it easy to hack your Tivo. And I did. Thousands of people benefited from my assembling of OTHERS work. I never took credit for that work and I always recognized those that authored it.

However, my work (ISO) gave Tivo and Tivo hacking popularity, which was good for everyone - DealDatabase, authors Tivo, the less gifted and yes, even the lazy and pirates.

I also continued the work of TPM (Tivo Package Manager) and created the Knoppix Lite Distro, which were used by many. I also created a second ISO which was entirely TPM based but I never released it to the public.

Unfortunately (and understandibly) certain egos here were brused - and those offended (and in a position of power) did not handle the situation very well especially after we obtained their real names and addresses.

I certainly hope you all have gotten past it by now.

Anyway, I just stopped by to wish everyone the best!

Sleeper

captain_video
09-26-2011, 07:11 PM
The Sleeper awakens!:D

Roger Dylan
09-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Jeeze, what happened to you guys? You look so old.

mike_s
09-27-2011, 08:11 PM
What's next? David Bought?

captain_video
09-28-2011, 08:18 AM
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

PlainBill
09-28-2011, 11:18 AM
:eek::eek::eek::eek:
No. $!@##%^^Y&&#@%@!#$%%!!! would be much more likely.

PlainBill

nomailforjeff
02-23-2012, 01:42 AM
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?62768-I-miss-Mr-Bought (I-miss-Mr-Bought)

Hey Sleeper!

Ok, for the record I read through about 80 hrs of documents and was able to figure out how to hax my two DR7000's. I closely read all posts by Riley, MuscleNerd, ADH, David Bought (lolz), plain Bill, the guy from Vermont (he had cancer) and tons of others. I was able to upgrade my DR7000's and extract shows circa 2003. My friends and Family with DTivos all wanted the upgrades and I was manually monte-ing them as fast as I could (family, work full time etc) and could only do 1-2 a month. I work for Intel and have been in the computer industry for > 20 yrs when I heard about the sleeper scripts, so I'm not a typical user. But I was a linux nub. Yeah his CD was flawed in some respects, but I now had friends telling me how they had 'hacked' their tivos and were so excited to have 250 Hr Tivos and were able to extract recordings.

The community was happening and people were excited. What more does a dev community want?

Bill, sorry you had to help restore peoples Tivo images, but if they really didnt understand the risks, wth were they doing?

anyway, good retrospective. Miss you all, but until you crack comcast DVR im out.