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View Full Version : drapatin volunteers to spoon feed every newbie (split from: DTivo Directory Structure?)



drapatin
08-16-2004, 02:44 PM
Do a search for either "TyTools" in conjunction with "tserver", or "MFS_FTP" to learn more about extraction from your Tivo.


OK, see,... this is what I do not understand..
why make the guy do a search? He asked a legitimate question, said he read the forums (although obviously in the wrong places..)

Why not just give him the link where everything resides..
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36115

First post has all the tools you need, they all also include read me's as well. If there is something you do not understand (and I am sure there will be a ton) go read some newbie guides, read mine here (http://www.gormly.com/tivo), it's not perfect but if you are not "in the know" it will help a lot.

JohnSorTivo
08-16-2004, 02:51 PM
why make the guy do a search
Why not just give him the link where everything resides..

I know you're not serious. I answered the guy's question, and told him the tools to look for to meet his needs, yet that's not enough? Jeez. While we're at it, why don't we just come over to his house and hack the unit for him, why make him do it himself. God forbid something is actually learned in the process. Teach a man to fish...

Waruwaru
08-16-2004, 02:55 PM
OK, see,... this is what I do not understand..
why make the guy do a search?

Because it's likely he will be using the Search function ALOT, so might as well learn it now. ;) By doing a search, he may find something else that will catch his attention, thus learning a bit more, personally I think it's a good idea.

drapatin
08-16-2004, 03:39 PM
Ok ya know what.. every thing you say from now on is HOOEY! :D


and told him the tools to look for to meet his needs

If someone asked you "what time is it?" .. would you say "It's all on the wrist" ?
Maybe because it took you a long time to find your watch and why should you give someone a shortcut anyway?

YOU DID NOT answer this guys question, you answered half.
and you didn't READ his post, only responded:


I have been reading till my head hurts!! Please no flames..

I am surprised you didn't point him to a generic "file system search." as well.
What could it have hurt to give him the link to all the pertinent info and not all the junk he get's from a search?

Do you feel better for putting someone on the the "path of knowledge" or something?

I understand the plight of the newbie, I was there and in some ways, I'm still green.

I am not super smart, it takes a while for some things to sink in, probably because I have a lot more on my plate than I want. But I still want to play with my Tivo, so I have read about 4 billion nonsense posts to get what I needed.

There is NO REASON for Steve to have to do the same thing, or anyone else.

Also:
The search tools on this website BLOW.
If you do not get it exactly right, you will be reading until your eyes fall out of your head.

And Finally and this really burns me..


"Teach a man to fish...."

JeSUS I am so sick and tired of hearing that kind of junk from those in the "know". You guys all assume this person has the hundred or so hours that you put in to learn what you know. And does that mean he shouldn't enjoy his Tivo? Because he can't sacrifice as much as you?

How about if he is a mental moron? (cognatively speaking of course)

Maybe he doesn't deserve to have all the cool Tivo Tools, that only us "eLiT3" haczorz can have.


" While we're at it, why don't we just come over to his house and hack the unit for him"

This is the attitude that hold us back, all of us from the (insert quest here)
Why do YOU even bother to try to "help" in the first place, just don't answer.

This is such a crap attitude.
" I know, I had to work for it, so do you newbie"..

Let's see.. You as a teacher:

Student (Steve):.. How can I Learn the square root of 15?
Teacher (You) : .. We'll Steve-O, there is a book at the library accross town, the book starts with Math, Arithmatic or adding some of those words.. go down to the library and do a title search, you'll find the answer there."


sorry for the rant, but the elite and righteous annoy me.
:eek:

JohnSorTivo
08-16-2004, 03:50 PM
First, if you re-read the initial post, you'll see that the primary question asked was:


What is stored in what directories?

Which, is the primary answer that I gave:


There is no actual folder you can just navigate to and view shows. Rather, the tools referenced above, when running, create "virtual" representations of the recordings on your Tivo, that you can then select and extract / transfer.

Again, this was the primary question that was asked, especially as it relates to the title of the thread.

I then supplied additional information for tips on what specific software to look for, yet this isn't good enough? I'll say it again, Jeez.

Quite frankly, you don't know me from Adam, but feel free to take a look at my posts, 99% of which are answers to newbie questions, with detailed responses, and as such, I don't appreciate being called "elite" and "righteous".


...the elite and righteous annoy me.

If you knew anything about me, or the assistance / contributions I provide on this board, you ought to feel pretty silly about right now...

drapatin
08-16-2004, 04:13 PM
First, if you re-read the initial post, you'll see that the primary question asked was

I do not agree, but doesn't matter..



I don't appreciate being called "elite" and "righteous".

Sure sounded like it to me, no specific offense meant, but I am truly sick of the general attitude that everyone must learn like "I" did.

JohnSorTivo
08-16-2004, 04:14 PM
...but I am truly sick of the general attitude that everyone must learn like "I" did.

Then direct your anger at those who have a propensity to act in such a manner. "I" tend to agree with your assessment, but to group me into the same clan in unwarranted and unappreciated, and by taking such a tone in your posts, tends to place you in the very same group as the people you seem to have such a problem with.

PlainBill
08-16-2004, 05:28 PM
OK, see,... this is what I do not understand..
why make the guy do a search? He asked a legitimate question, said he read the forums (although obviously in the wrong places..)

Why not just give him the link where everything resides..
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36115

First post has all the tools you need, they all also include read me's as well. If there is something you do not understand (and I am sure there will be a ton) go read some newbie guides, read mine here (http://www.gormly.com/tivo), it's not perfect but if you are not "in the know" it will help a lot.

There are several reasons for simply suggesting search terms. One of the most obvious: Giving an actual link will require opening another window, entering the search terms, checking the posts that match, and copying the link to the one I like best. At it's worst, this is PRECISELY what you object ot - Telling someone to DO IT MY WAY.

While I applaud you for your willingness to supply precise links for everyone who asks a question, others prefer to spend their time more efficiently.

PlainBill

SteveEJ
08-16-2004, 11:10 PM
Guys.. I didn't ask to start a fight here.. I asked because there is so much information for a new user/hacker/what ever and the maze is SOOOOOO large and there are SOOOOO many resources that a 'newbie' can get lost and/or get on the wrong track very easily.

I am NOT a moron, in fact anyone that flies as a passenger or pilot would probably appreciate that fact.

I do like this suggestion - "Jeez. While we're at it, why don't we just come over to his house and hack the unit for him, why make him do it himself. God forbid something is actually learned in the process." ... OK.. JUST KIDDING!!

The simple fact is that I have been a programmer (hence the directory structure question) but am NOT familiar with Linux at all. I bought a 4 inch thick book on linux and am working on that side of things. I am going as far as to build a Linux box and adding it to my home network so I can become familiar with it.

In the mean time, while in the starting portion of the very large learning curve, any help on how to get extraction working would be appreciated. If you are not interested then thanks for your time and 'Good Day'.

Steve :o

AlphaWolf
08-16-2004, 11:17 PM
Well, thats what the newbie forum is for. One person asks a question, others either tell them what they need to know, where to find what they need to know, or how to find what they need to know. No matter the case, the end result is the same. Complaining about responses doesn't do any good here, save that for the support forums where information isn't supposed to be cluttered.

AVD
08-16-2004, 11:56 PM
this thread is cluttered,

if you see an answer you don't like, just add your own, why flame the other guy?

NutKase
08-17-2004, 12:46 AM
Why not just give him the link where everything resides..

go read some newbie guides, read mine here (http://www.gormly.com/tivo), it's not perfect but if you are not "in the know" it will help a lot.

I thought drapatin had an axe to grind when I read this (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179536&postcount=5) 'very nice and non-inflammatory' comment.




***********************

Newbies! UNITE and RISE UP!
A day is coming where we are looked upon as EQUALS !!!!

Roar Roar of the crowd.

Now I know. Sewer here we come.


NutKase

drapatin
08-17-2004, 10:24 AM
I didn't mean this to get all inflamatory and I usually do not make it a habit to single someone out or "flame" them.

Certainly wasn't the intent here.


OK, see,... this is what I do not understand..
why make the guy do a search? He asked a legitimate question, said he read the forums (although obviously in the wrong places..)

Why not just give him the link where everything resides..


Just for the record..
I don't see this as a flame. and if you do (anyone) then you are a wee bit too sensitive.

I certainly would have dropped it right there, I only got annoyed after John's "Teach a Man...", and "Hack it for him..." comments.
And my A Type personality just couldn't let it go so I had to be sarcastic back. Sue me.

So, sorry John.. didn't mean any real offense towards you directly, I know you have helped many people, you just do it differently than I.



as far as my newbie comment you quoted NutKase..
if you can't see what I meant by this statement:


Newbies! UNITE and RISE UP!
A day is coming where we are looked upon as EQUALS !!!!

Roar Roar of the crowd.

Then I am all alone in my own little world. :( :(
It was a little joke ya know.. it's not my creed or anything.

Get it? Newbies, Unite, a day is coming
(when they learn stuff they'll be treated as equals)

In the future:

Those who do not have the time, should seek me out for help.
Those who want to learn from scratch should contact the rest of you.

alldeadhomiez
08-17-2004, 12:46 PM
Split to Sewer.

drapatin: if you want to help people, fine, but lose the attitude.

psxboy
08-17-2004, 03:23 PM
Heh.. I was wondering how long it was going to take before this ended up in the sewer... ;)


Why not just give him the link where everything resides..
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=36115
The link you gave him will only provide outdated information to other people who stumble upon this post weeks from now. By suggesting search terms to use, future readers of this post will always be able to find the most current and pertinent info instead of being pointed to a post that will be obsolete when jdiner releases the next revision of his tools.


What could it have hurt to give him the link to all the pertinent info and not all the junk he get's from a search?
...
The search tools on this website BLOW.
If you do not get it exactly right, you will be reading until your eyes fall out of your head.
Ever heard the term "junk in, junk out"? Honestly, if you can't formulate a good search string by now you should turn in your computer and bow-out of the internet revolution. As long as you sort by posts and scan the results to find posts with relevant information, you can almost always find what you're looking for (assuming it exists on the board). Each search & scan can provide more clues for keywords to use to find the info you're looking for. And if you don't like the search engine on the board, you can always use Google ([search terms] site:dealdatabase.com).


JeSUS I am so sick and tired of hearing that kind of junk from those in the "know". You guys all assume this person has the hundred or so hours that you put in to learn what you know. And does that mean he shouldn't enjoy his Tivo? Because he can't sacrifice as much as you?
I think this falls into the category of "entitlement". Just because this stuff is possible doesn't mean it's easy. The members of this board expect a certain familiarity with linux and with computers in general. They also expect a certain level of competance and a willingness to learn. If you're just looking to have your hand held through the entire process, go to TCF. If you're just looking to have everything handed to you on a silver plate, that's what PTVUpgrade is for. It's all about scope... we're willing to help people by giving them a nudge in the right direction, but we expect them to take that info & "run with it", filling in the gaps in their own knowledge, not just passivly digesting step-by-step recipies without understanding the logic behind it.

Take your student/teacher analogy for instance:

Student (Steve):.. How can I Learn the square root of 15?
Teacher (You) : .. We'll Steve-O, there is a book at the library accross town, the book starts with Math, Arithmatic or adding some of those words.. go down to the library and do a title search, you'll find the answer there."
Going by your logic, it would go something like this:

Student (Steve):.. How can I Learn the square root of 15?
Teacher (You) : 3.87298335
So... what is learned there? Only the specific answer to that problem, but nothing about how to find, say, the square root of 12 or any other number. My point is, if we just spit out the specific answers to a question or give people lists of commands to run without a reason why, we're doing a much greater disservice to the community than we would be by helping them to learn to think on their own.

Tivo is a platform. Much of what is discussed here goes toward the ultimate goal of teaching techniques, not providing end-user support for the people who just want to run the latest cool-stuff so they can impress their friends.

On the subject of the "maze of outdated information" on this board... you know, if you're reading a post from January of 2001 you can pretty much assume that the info it contains is old & outdated. Maybe what we need is a sticky somewhere that lists the current methods and programs, indexed by Tivo model/SW revision, and which older things they've replaced. But failing that, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to look at the date of whatever post they're reading and put it into context.

-psxboy

my0gr81
08-17-2004, 04:33 PM
First of all the title of this thread looks "wrong" when it comes up as a search item. But it will tempt people to read it. No offence Drapatin.

I see where you are coming from, but OTOH, you have to realize that anyone who is expecting that they will get the commands and everything will work for them are bound to run into problems sooner or later. What will they do then? Come back for more commands? If they knew why and how things where done, then they would be able to apply some logic to the process and be self sufficient to boot. I see that some people are more [/PCfilter] Gentle [\PCfilter] when it comes to answering stupid questions and some of them are down right nasty, but that usually comes when a particular poster just pushes the limits of reasonable efforts to help themselves. I have actually learned a lot from very old posts as long as you don't use the information to just go and duplicate the steps but to figure out what is going on and what the newer posts are refering to.

I am an newbie, and I have a thick skin. I am not afraid to ask, but I am also not afraid to try something on my system knowing that I have an image that I can restore from that will put me back to a know starting point if things work out. After all, all the content on the drive is just TV, if it gets deleted so what, wait for re-runs.

BTW: My first attempt at restoring an image failed and did I learn from that.