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View Full Version : Yet ANOTHER ridiculous licensing complaint (Split from: Hacking my Tivo)



tytyty
10-21-2004, 09:05 PM
How much easier could it possibly be? We're not asking people to compute Mersenne primes in their head or anything.

Could be they prefer a method that dosen't require acquiescence to an restrictive "licsense".

JJBliss
10-21-2004, 09:17 PM
Could be they prefer a method that dosen't require acquiescence to an restrictive "licsense".

What the hell is so restrictive about it??
Do you plan to use it for profit?
Do you plan to release an all in one tool/script to make it EVEN EASIER to use it?

If you want to use it for YOUR OWN use to hack YOUR OWN Tivo, GO AHEAD. What's the big deal?

tytyty
10-21-2004, 09:32 PM
What the hell is so restrictive about it??
Do you plan to use it for profit?
Do you plan to release an all in one tool/script to make it EVEN EASIER to use it?

If you want to use it for YOUR OWN use to hack YOUR OWN Tivo, GO AHEAD. What's the big deal?
Sorry Mom I cant give you my TivO as that violates the licsense.

alldeadhomiez
10-21-2004, 09:51 PM
Sorry Mom I cant give you my TivO as that violates the licsense.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that this situation does not fall under "personal, noncommercial use."

If the license included an exemption for members of your immediate family, would you then be satisfied with it? If not, why?

JJBliss
10-21-2004, 10:05 PM
Sorry Mom I cant give you my TivO as that violates the licsense.
Don't forget, that while you're explaining that to your mother, consider:

... and also, I'm sorry I can't give you my TiVo ANYWAY as it's lifetime subscription is for ME, and not the box, so you'd have to subscribe it again, since TiVo has a very restrictive license and that would violate it.

OR...

... and also, I'm sorry I can't give you my DTiVo ANYWAY as you need to be a DirecTV subscriber and pay for the PVR tier along with your other channels, since DirecTV has a very restrictive license and that would violate it.

Oh, you say you live in the same house, and you're giving it to her, not selling it. Great. Then it is for personal non-commercial use (and the DTV subscription is the same - tied to the same landline phone) and the TiVo SA subscription holds as does the DTV PVR tier restriction.

Funny, how licenses work, huh?

tytyty
10-21-2004, 10:45 PM
Don't forget, that while you're explaining that to your mother, consider:

... and also, I'm sorry I can't give you my TiVo ANYWAY as it's lifetime subscription is for ME, and not the box, so you'd have to subscribe it again, since TiVo has a very restrictive license and that would violate it.

Orig unit was Phillips 312 bought off ebay as lifetime, bad hd. extreme took care of that reg was transfered directly to her name.




... and also, I'm sorry I can't give you my DTiVo ANYWAY as you need to be a DirecTV subscriber and pay for the PVR tier along with your other channels, since DirecTV has a very restrictive license and that would violate it.

No DTV hacking mentioned are you acusing me of something?

See above


Took me 6 months to get her to take the TCD24004 as she said it was ugly..
bought new and lifetime for bday present.


Oh yea the S1 transfered back to me due to the original contract terms.

Mom has used tystudio via the wireless to extract and archive her figure skating shows since the release, (she loves showing off to her bunko group) I visit 4 times a year to burn to dvd's for her.

Now lets talk about my best friend for 20 years, he has gone through several dtivos (at my recomendation and lost due to his taste in women and bad habits) I will hack his units for him forever for keeping me from ending up homeless. Thanks Jim

Sure I hack for fellow workers and the boss, brings in spare beer and some nice perks.

Any licence that says I can't bring joy to my people is a shackle.

alldeadhomiez
10-21-2004, 11:19 PM
Any licence that says I can't bring joy to my people is a shackle.

Please correct me if I am wrong on either of these points:

You were supportive of Sleeper's efforts, including the TivoScripts ISO, and agreed with his motivations.
You have sold at least one pre-hacked unit to somebody you did not previously know.

Do you understand the relationship between these activities and the type of license that is on killhdinitrd? Are you aware that had Sleeper behaved himself and had the eBay sellers never existed, killhdinitrd would probably be GPL?

At the end of the day, we all depend on the generosity of a few developers. Software will be released and used in accordance with their wishes, or it will not be released at all. If you feel "shackled" by these stringent terms, consider how your own actions may have helped bring about their creation.

Maybe you owe "your people" an apology.

tytyty
10-22-2004, 12:00 AM
Please correct me if I am wrong on either of these points:

You were supportive of Sleeper's efforts, including the TivoScripts ISO, and agreed with his motivations.
You have sold at least one pre-hacked unit to somebody you did not previously know.

Sure sold a few S1's couple of S2's got burned on some also.
NONE of them contained any "developers" licenced software (that worked as installed), since tystudio has ALWAYS been GPL.



Do you understand the relationship between these activities and the type of license that is on killhdinitrd? Are you aware that had Sleeper behaved himself and had the eBay sellers never existed, killhdinitrd would probably be GPL?

At the end of the day, we all depend on the generosity of a few developers. Software will be released and used in accordance with their wishes, or it will not be released at all. If you feel "shackled" by these stringent terms, consider how your own actions may have helped bring about their creation.

Maybe you owe "your people" an apology.

Holier than thouism...

Supportive of Tivoscripts?
Yep like many who saw the potential of the processes within them to be expanded upon to allow users to do be informed along the way (unlike extreme) as to what was happening and how the commands were implemented. Quite frankly by the time I was finished with my tweaks to those scripts they bore almost no resemblance to the originals but suited my requirments.



Remember shakles can be unbound.

BTW isnt it respond to the post not the poster?

alldeadhomiez
10-22-2004, 12:35 AM
Sure sold a few S1's couple of S2's got burned on some also.
NONE of them contained any "developers" licenced software (that worked as installed), since tystudio has ALWAYS been GPL.

GPL or not, many people find this profiteering distasteful. Some find it sufficiently irritating that they change their licenses to make it stop. Action-reaction.


Holier than thouism...

Supportive of Tivoscripts?

How much of your work did Sleeper steal? Oh right, none. When you don't produce anything I guess it's pretty hard to understand how it feels when somebody else rips you off and then slaps you in the face.

tytyty
10-22-2004, 01:00 AM
GPL or not, many people find this profiteering distasteful. Some find it sufficiently irritating that they change their licenses to make it stop. Action-reaction.

Some find a lack of food due to unemployment "distasteful", too bad that's not illegal.



Holier than thouism...

Supportive of Tivoscripts?

Gee do I have to edit the parent as I did not seperate the quotes correctly.


Do you understand the relationship between these activities and the type of license that is on killhdinitrd? Are you aware that had Sleeper behaved himself and had the eBay sellers never existed, killhdinitrd would probably be GPL?

At the end of the day, we all depend on the generosity of a few developers. Software will be released and used in accordance with their wishes, or it will not be released at all. If you feel "shackled" by these stringent terms, consider how your own actions may have helped bring about their creation.

Maybe you owe "your people" an apology.



Holier than thouism...


You were supportive of Sleeper's efforts, including the TivoScripts ISO, and agreed with his motivations.



Supportive of Tivoscripts?

Gee didn't comment on the "motivations" comment will you?

Last question:
Are you bound by a licence not presented to you by a licencee ?

NutKase
10-22-2004, 01:12 AM
Some find a lack of food due to unemployment "distasteful", too bad that's not illegal.



Gee do I have to edit the parent as I did not seperate the


WHAT? I'm sure it must be the beer...

I'll re-read this wonderful thread and 'stay out of it'... hoping to make some sense...


NutKase

alldeadhomiez
10-22-2004, 01:24 AM
Some find a lack of food due to unemployment "distasteful", too bad that's not illegal.

Gee do I have to edit the parent as I did not seperate the

Gee didn't comment on the "motivations" comment will you?

Last question:
Are you bound by a licence not presented to you by a licencee ?

So you think you're immune from copyright law? Interesting theory.

If you decide to test it in court, I hope your legal filings are at least a little bit more readable than your last few posts.

tytyty
10-22-2004, 01:25 AM
WHAT? I'm sure it must be the beer...

I'll re-read this wonderful thread and 'stay out of it'... hoping to make some sense...


NutKase
Nice you stepped right in it. I've been meaning to comment on your signature...


"DTivo newbies:Want to monte so you can run 4.x? Go ahead and Sleeper... THEN remain asleep and in the dark. Just don't ask questions."
OR, use killhdinitrd, monte it yourself, and actually participate in this HACKING board. --Shamelessly stolen from ME I think it's funny!


Since the killhdinitrd licence does not allow you to publish, discuss or improve upon the binary. Who exactly is left in the dark?

JJBliss
10-22-2004, 01:32 AM
Since the killhdinitrd licence does not allow you to publish, discuss or improve upon the binary. Who exactly is left in the dark?

Obviously, the one in the dark is you.



You MAY examine or reverse engineer our code, but understand that doing so implies that any "clone" of killhdinitrd is a derivative work of our project and MAY NOT be redistributed in any form.

BUT..

As the SOLE exception to our no-redistribution policy, you may submit
modified versions to ourselves or to the dealdatabase.com staff
(privately); staff members may choose to post your modified copy. Our
intent is that you will be allowed to add support for additional kernel
versions, provided that our restrictions apply to any of the derivative
works you create. If we use your modifications, we will give you credit.

Seems like you CAN improve upon the binary AND discuss (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36692) it, AND have it published....

Guess you're wrong.

tytyty
10-22-2004, 01:39 AM
you may submit
modified versions to ourselves or to the dealdatabase.com staff
(privately);

sorry


"DTivo newbies:Want to monte so you can run 4.x? Go ahead and Sleeper... THEN remain asleep and in the dark. Just don't ask questions."

btw want to comment on the bashing signature I dissected?

seems users have been admonished for less

Imediate email notification of thread changes is also alot of fun.

tytyty
10-22-2004, 01:58 AM
Some find a lack of food due to unemployment "distasteful", too bad that's not illegal.

Gee do I have to edit the parent as I did not seperate the

Gee didn't comment on the "motivations" comment will you?

Last question:
Are you bound by a licence not presented to you by a licencee ?



So you think you're immune from copyright law? Interesting theory.

If you decide to test it in court, I hope your legal filings are at least a little bit more readable than your last few posts.

And this post is regarding what?
Oh I'll dig thru and guess it's


Last question:
Are you bound by a licence not presented to you by a licencee ?


Wow asked question got accused of violation of copyright law..


So you agree with the 2 other items you quoted me on?

tytyty

tytyty
10-22-2004, 02:14 AM
6 out of 10 of these moved posts do not address the "licensing" issue" why were they moved here?

JJBliss
10-22-2004, 02:24 AM
6 out of 10 of these moved posts do not address the "licensing" issue" why were they moved here?

1st answer, and the only one that's of any importance, is because I felt like it.

2nd answer, and the one I'll add to avoid being accused of pulling rank, is because you are incorrect and EVERY post that I split here deals with "licensing" issues. In FACT, 15 of the prior 17 posts even include the word license (some spelled more correctly than others, might I add) or some allusion to licenses.

tytyty
10-22-2004, 02:40 AM
1st answer, and the only one that's of any importance, is because I felt like it.

2nd answer, and the one I'll add to avoid being accused of pulling rank, is because you are incorrect and EVERY post that I split here deals with "licensing" issues. In FACT, 15 of the prior 17 posts even include the word license (some spelled more correctly than others, might I add) or some allusion to licenses.

that title is farily abusive


Ok I agree except posts 10 11,13 and 15 of this split thread.

Not that I feel any differnet about the license issue.

rc3105
10-22-2004, 10:05 AM
Not that I feel any differnet about the license issue.
boo-freaking-hoo

develop (or buy) something usefull & have it stolen, then MAYBE your opinion might be worth squat - currently it's not


it's pretty simple, if you don't like the license don't use the program



keep whining, that's obviously the way to influence people (maybe if you're 6)

alldeadhomiez
10-22-2004, 10:05 AM
And this post is regarding what?
Oh I'll dig thru and guess it's

Wow asked question got accused of violation of copyright law..

Where's the accusation? I merely asked if you think you are exempt from the copyright laws. Sort of like this guy (http://www.anti-irs.com/), who claims that the tax laws don't apply to him.

So, do you feel that you are bound by U.S. and international copyright laws, or not?


So you agree with the 2 other items you quoted me on?

I reread your post this morning and still don't understand what you were trying to say, so I guess my answer for you is "don't know."

mrblack51
10-22-2004, 12:46 PM
Last question:
Are you bound by a licence not presented to you by a licencee ?

how about you elaborate on this - what exactly are you talking about?

the answer is yes, you are bound by a license that you are not presented in most cases, especially if the content is redistributed. think mp3s - just because the original copyright info is not included in your emule download doesnt mean you aren't bound by the license, and doesnt mean you are imune to punishment for violating the terms.

mrblack51
10-22-2004, 01:02 PM
Could be they prefer a method that dosen't require acquiescence to an restrictive "licsense".

since the average user of this board is someone who wants to hack their unit for personal use, i fail to see how this license would be a problem for those individuals. thus, i dont see how the "restrictive 'licsense'" as you call it would cause problems for much of anyone except those who wish to profiteer on ebay or the like.

as such, i dont think that the few restrictions on the license outweigh the technical merits of the hack. whether you choose to agree or not, there are quite a number of benefits to the killhdinitrd(and sometimes monte) setup over the old bash_env/monte method utilized by tivoscripts. specifically the lack of secondary partition sets and no need for the "apple free partition" - meaning more standard backup/restore methods can be used.

TheWickedPriest
10-23-2004, 03:53 PM
Do you plan to release an all in one tool/script to make it EVEN EASIER to use it?
What would be wrong with that?

Jamie
10-23-2004, 04:04 PM
What would be wrong with that?
The case for what's wrong with making hacks end-user-ready was stated pretty clearly in this (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38691) thread. See post #5 from ADH. You may or may not agree, but the position is well stated there.

I should probably just stay out of these sewer threads....