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Tiros
11-13-2004, 02:30 PM
too funny (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=79185&postcount=1)

For some reason my response was moved here by ADH:
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=193594&postcount=89

Soopaman
11-14-2004, 02:18 PM
For some reason my response was moved here by ADH:
http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=193594&postcount=89

Not even gone a week, and you guys are already tracking shit all over the thread even after I explicity asked that you not. Mods, please delete all post that are opinion oriented.

Tiros, I hope you read this, and let it sink in. Do not post, read, or even participate in this thread unless you are contributing information or your findings in a specific context. I find it very frustrating and disrespectful that you never seem to positively contribute to any thread that you post in; especially after choosing to ignore my poilite and reasonable requests stated in my first post.

Tiros
11-14-2004, 04:07 PM
Not even gone a week, and you guys are already tracking shit all over the thread even after I explicity asked that you not. Mods, please delete all post that are opinion oriented.

Tiros, I hope you read this, and let it sink in. Do not post, read, or even participate in this thread unless you are contributing information or your findings in a specific context. I find it very frustrating and disrespectful that you never seem to positively contribute to any thread that you post in; especially after choosing to ignore my poilite and reasonable requests stated in my first post.

Who are you?
What have YOU ever contributed.
I have reviewed each of your 14 posts and none have any content at all.
Wow, you tried GetTivoConfig? What a breakthrough!!
Stop flame baiting, post some info or STFU!
You have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING nothing to help here.
Gone a week, still nothing to report, and yet you have time to flame.
No one asked you to start this thread.
You are not a mod.

alldeadhomiez
11-14-2004, 04:34 PM
Non-dev posts split to Sewer.


Stop flame baiting, post some info or STFU!
You have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING nothing to help here.
Gone a week, still nothing to report, and yet you have time to flame.

This quote speaks for itself.

Soopaman
11-15-2004, 02:38 AM
Tiro you seem to be missing the point.

What pissed me off is your need to bring the same conspiracy theories into EVERY ****ING THREAD you post in. I haven't done anything publicly, and I rarely post to the boards, but how does that give you just cause to dilute the one thread I got off my ass to start? Instead of bitching about how no-one is publically releasing the solution or how "we shouldn't have to pay for hacks", I started the thinktank thread for dev's to post what they've tried and where it's gotten them. Does me being a greedy/non-publicly releasing developer give you the right to start shit on the thread I started? I have no intention on becoming some sort of "Sleeper"-esque hero (even though I have used and thoroughly enjoyed his ISO of other people's work) in developing a 4.x RID solution, I just want to learn how to create solutions for closed sourced kernel modules in open source systems.

And to think, all of this would have been avoided if just a little bit of consideration had been shown by not submitting any personal or opinion driven posts to the thread. But as you said, who am I to make such an unreasonable request like that...

tbellomo
11-15-2004, 08:56 PM
The lack of impartial moderation is troubling <-- outsider's opinion

It's well known that most of the mods here would rather keep enhancements private than public.

Who's to say they won't quash any free 4.0 on RID development anyway under the guise that it's "unsafe" or "deprecated".

I don't know why someone would choose to start making conspiracy theories against some of the aforementioned mods, if there wasn't any motivation.

Just kickin' some thoughts around --

-Timo

rc3105
11-15-2004, 09:23 PM
The lack of impartial moderation is troubling <-- outsider's opinion

mods are people too, impartial is in the eye of the beholder and not neccessarily the goal




It's well known that most of the mods here would rather keep enhancements private than public.

not necesarily, but we DO all respect the wishes of original authors. if I had say a homebrew version of tivo2go, but the guy that wrote 2/3 of the code it's based on doesn't want that made public, it stays private until I work up the energy to write my own replacement for his modules (or maybe I agree not to EVER release something similiar for a peek at his code - wow has that bitten me in the butt a few times)




Who's to say they won't quash any free 4.0 on RID development anyway under the guise that it's "unsafe" or "deprecated".

ddb's not the only game in town and the tivo-verse isn't that big. if somebody with ANY credibility sets up a forum / irc / blog and says "come help me out" we couldn't possibly stop them, wouldn't be worth trying even IF we wanted to

*we all know mn could do it if he wanted to invest the time & money

so far the circle of people with that particular knowledge are all in "respect the wishes of the author" mode. "hero's" will be excommunicated with a dull spoon ;)




I don't know why someone would choose to start making conspiracy theories against some of the aforementioned mods, if there wasn't any motivation.

Just kickin' some thoughts around --

-Timo
who knows, pissed off they don't know where the clubhouse is?

alldeadhomiez
11-15-2004, 09:24 PM
The lack of impartial moderation is troubling <-- outsider's opinion

It's well known that most of the mods here would rather keep enhancements private than public.

Who's to say they won't quash any free 4.0 on RID development anyway under the guise that it's "unsafe" or "deprecated".

Then you are free to spend your time on TCF. Or AO. Or any of the dozens of other TiVo forums. I am confident that you will find at least one whose moderators you "trust."

If we "quash" your development efforts, you are also free to post your original work elsewhere. The internet is bigger than DDB. And it is this very fact that keeps everyone honest - if a forum suppresses useful information, that forum will quickly fall out of favor and become irrelevant.


I don't know why someone would choose to start making conspiracy theories against some of the aforementioned mods, if there wasn't any motivation.

Who said there wasn't any motivation?

There is a small group of trolls which attempts to cause as much trouble and stir up as much dissent as possible. Look through the Sewer to identify them, then add them to your ignore list.

tbellomo
11-15-2004, 10:41 PM
Riley, thanks for the clear and cogent response -- I appreciate that. But I still feel as though many of the "elite" (and thus mods) prefer the secrecy because they'd rather not have to re-hack the crap when TiVo add another level of protection.



Then you are free to spend your time on TCF. Or AO. Or any of the dozens of other TiVo forums. I am confident that you will find at least one whose moderators you "trust."

You're reminding me of the freakin' hick Americans that I have to call my fellow citizens. I'm not trying to start a fight, or anything, but I hate that attitude. If you don't like it, leave! --- Why don't you leave? NOOOO, why don't you leave.

In the end, no one gets anywhere.

I don't think Tiros is as much of a villian as you guys (the mods -- JJBliss/alldeadhomiez in particular) mke him out to be. There's nothing wrong with a dissenting opinion; and honestly, his so-called conspiracy theories really don't seem that outrageous.


"hero's" will be excommunicated with a dull spoon

Even if the hero does the whole thing himself? Even if he legitimately hacks it? I kind of get the sense that he would be, still, even if it was legitimate

OK, so in summation, this post doesn't really get us anywhere -- does that make me a troll? I don't think it does -- although nothing's resolved, it's not like i'm spewing psyco-babble (disclaimer: "eye of the beholder")

--Timo

Lost Dog
11-15-2004, 10:57 PM
You're reminding me of the freakin' hick Americans that I have to call my fellow citizens. I'm not trying to start a fight, or anything, but I hate that attitude. If you don't like it, leave! --- Why don't you leave? NOOOO, why don't you leave.

--Timo

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html

Hey, I'm just sayin'..... No one is holding you back.

alldeadhomiez
11-15-2004, 11:11 PM
You're reminding me of the freakin' hick Americans that I have to call my fellow citizens. I'm not trying to start a fight, or anything, but I hate that attitude. If you don't like it, leave! --- Why don't you leave? NOOOO, why don't you leave.

Wow, this guy thinks he's better than the rest of America. Talk about elitism.

The fact remains that DDB thrives on unencumbered research and development (to the extent permitted by law), and it is in our best interest to allow progress to occur notwithstanding the choices we have made with regard to our own code. If you don't believe us, that is your problem, not ours.

Since you have thus far been unable to furnish a counterexample, I can only assume you are hurting your own credibility far more than you are hurting ours.

rc3105
11-16-2004, 12:10 AM
Riley, thanks for the clear and cogent response -- I appreciate that. But I still feel as though many of the "elite" (and thus mods) prefer the secrecy because they'd rather not have to re-hack the crap when TiVo add another level of protection.

eh, there's a little of that. if you got into tivo back when there was no prom or initrd signature checking the current security is VERY annoying - and it's pretty much directly attributable to the extreme iso's





I don't think Tiros is as much of a villian as you guys (the mods -- JJBliss/alldeadhomiez in particular) mke him out to be. There's nothing wrong with a dissenting opinion; and honestly, his so-called conspiracy theories really don't seem that outrageous.

maybe not, but he's damn annoying at times. mod's a volounteer position so there's not a lot of incentive to put up with baloney. a dozen trolls in one night might have mother teresa using both barrels. we don't need a forum janitor, we need a forum billy goat



Even if the hero does the whole thing himself? Even if he legitimately hacks it? I kind of get the sense that he would be, still, even if it was legitimate

well, "hero" has been used quite a bit as a put down to describe someone benefitting disproportionatly from other's work

anybody wants to develop an entire project themselves, go for it.

somebody wants to build a killer app or distro w/o checking with the original dev's and that's something else. if the components are gpl that's great, not everything is though. lot of non-programmer type wannabe-hero's don't understand the difference and run with it anyway




OK, so in summation, this post doesn't really get us anywhere -- does that make me a troll? I don't think it does -- although nothing's resolved, it's not like i'm spewing psyco-babble (disclaimer: "eye of the beholder")

--Timo
heh, true enough. I'll tell you one thing though as someone that used to be a rabble rouser and was told to put up or shut up, I made good & the view's a lot different from this side of the looking glass :eek:

The Only Druid
11-16-2004, 12:20 AM
Wow, this guy thinks he's better than the rest of America. Talk about elitism.

I'm not responding to anything but this quote.

1) Elitism isn't wrong, ADH, and I'm pretty sure you know that's true: what's wrong is unjust elitism. Elitism is just acting appropriate to status. Frankly, the mods are elitist about what should happen on the boards, and that's the right thing for them to do, since they have a higher status here!. If they weren't, the boards wouldn't run properly. Heirarchical systems only work because people act appropriate to their status.

2) What he was saying (and I agree with) is actually not related to elitism though: he was saying that "Love it or Leave It" (which was a roundly criticised slogan from the Vietnam era until recently) isn't a healthy stand. When we tell dissenting opinions to leave, all we do is dilute our ability to create new and creative solutions. If everyone here agrees about everything, eventually something will change which no one will be able to deal with. At the national scale (i.e. about Americans), this means that if we don't encourage lively debate, our ideology will become so stagnant that we'll lose our ability to perform on the global stage. At the DDB scale, this means that its dangerous to discourage people from debating the purposes of release schedules, etc. because it will eventually result in no one releasing anything.

3) I'm not saying I want to read about conspiracy theories excessively, but contrarily I'd get a little conspiratorial myself if i never saw someone disagree with a mod (or other higher-up poster). It just would look suspicious, since no free forum has absolutely no dissent. The trick is to strike a balance, so occasionally people feel the need to pipe up with some disagreement without fear of unbalanced reprisal, but they don't constantly disrupt the work of the board (which is, of course, the exchange of ideas, methods and tools for hacking Tivos).

alldeadhomiez
11-16-2004, 01:17 AM
1) Elitism isn't wrong

Complaining about elitism and then characterizing his fellow citizens as "freakin' rednecks" is a tad ironic..


2) What he was saying (and I agree with) is actually not related to elitism though: he was saying that "Love it or Leave It" (which was a roundly criticised slogan from the Vietnam era until recently) isn't a healthy stand. When we tell dissenting opinions to leave, all we do is dilute our ability to create new and creative solutions. If everyone here agrees about everything, eventually something will change which no one will be able to deal with.

We aren't anti-dissent; we are anti-troll. Sometimes it's a fine line; other times it's clear that somebody only posts to harass others.

Take a look at the posting histories of the people involved in this thread. Some of them are obviously here to participate; some are obviously here to stir up trouble.

Lost Dog
11-16-2004, 01:19 AM
3) I'm not saying I want to read about conspiracy theories excessively, but contrarily I'd get a little conspiratorial myself if i never saw someone disagree with a mod (or other higher-up poster).

Tin foil hats for sale!
Get your tin foil hats right here!

Step right up. Guaranteed to prevent satellite tracking and stop that incessant ringing in the ears....

/puts on hat.

tbellomo
11-16-2004, 01:40 AM
Thanks guys; this post had been enjoyable.

ADH -- I suppose you're right, I was a bit hypocritical. But I'm not for the banning of hicks just cause they're annoying. Druid got my point -- "love it or leave it" is lame.

Look, I get it, you have to keep order... but I think it's easy for you guys to slip into bully-mode unjustly at times.

-_Timo

NutKase
11-16-2004, 02:00 AM
But I'm not for the banning of hicks just cause they're annoying. Druid got my point -- "love it or leave it" is lame.

You know... I resented the first 'hick' comment...

Now, even in a 'sort've retraction' you've implied it again.

I grew up a 'sort've hick' in your eyes...

But at least you are less than 'your definition' in mine.

YOU are annoying.

/me pulls for a ban and is rofl at the 'Art Bell' comment, thx LostDog.

trolls are fun... sometimes :).


NutKase

malfunct
11-16-2004, 02:04 AM
I grew up a 'sort've hick' in your eyes...


I'm definitely a hick and proud of it :)

mrblack51
11-16-2004, 02:05 AM
Thanks guys; this post had been enjoyable.

ADH -- I suppose you're right, I was a bit hypocritical. But I'm not for the banning of hicks just cause they're annoying. Druid got my point -- "love it or leave it" is lame.

Look, I get it, you have to keep order... but I think it's easy for you guys to slip into bully-mode unjustly at times.

-_Timo

your point is understandable, and even somewhat reasonable. but, as noted by ADH, this isnt how every single person is treated - unlike what some would have others believe. the posters who receive harsher treatment by the mods are repeat offenders, obvious trolls. tiros, for example, has historically talked alot about great modding skills, but as of yet i have not seen a single post with much actual technical benefit.

dealing with trolls is a sticky issue - always. their whole purpose is to cause problems while being inside the rules. your reaction is actually exactly what the typical troll feeds on. is tiros/<insert other board member here> a troll? i suppose that is your decision for yourself.

tbellomo
11-16-2004, 02:18 AM
Sorry -- didn't mean to offend any hicks :p

Here we go way off topic --

I was referring to the kind of people who would still support Bush even after his gross mishandlings of our nation. The ones that say "love it or leave it." Hick may have been too broad a term -- sorry

*brace for impact*

Let's try to get back on topic...

I looked at all of the posts referenced in cases against Sleeper -- I didn't see anything that clearly led me to believe he deserved being banned. He was a "repeat offender" because he was rebelling -- action, re-action.

I know we've been here before -- but in the first place, what did Sleeper do wrong? I knew that he didn't create all of the tools on the ISO. It was made quite clear that it was simply a distribution of them. Were there licenses put on those tools that he violated? Or did his doing the ISO set a precident for why we have the licenses now? As I understand he removed mfstools at riley's request -- so what's the beef?

BY the way guys -- I'm not after any trouble... I just like to discuss things -- if i make some inflamatory statement, take them with a grain of salt -- I'm not emotionally invested in the chatter in this thread.

Once again, Nutkase, sorry -- HICK! just kidding.

--Timo

NutKase
11-16-2004, 03:56 AM
Sorry -- didn't mean to offend any hicks :p

Here we go way off topic --

I was referring to the kind of people who would still support Bush even after his gross mishandlings of our nation. The ones that say "love it or leave it." Hick may have been too broad a term -- sorry

<snip> veiled apolgy not accepted.


By the way guys -- I'm not after any trouble... I just like to discuss things -- if i make some inflamatory statement, take them with a grain of salt -- I'm not emotionally invested in the chatter in this thread.

Once again, Nutkase, sorry -- HICK! just kidding.

Why should we take anything with a 'grain of salt'?

Politics? From where did that come?

Since this thread is already in the sewer, I don't think you're 'emotionally invested' in much besides your ego and ability to pique folks' irritation.

[self]... you can do better than keep responding to 'a s s h o l e s' like this... [/self, I know... go to bed.../self]

mrblack51
11-16-2004, 04:03 AM
I know we've been here before -- but in the first place, what did Sleeper do wrong? I knew that he didn't create all of the tools on the ISO. It was made quite clear that it was simply a distribution of them. Were there licenses put on those tools that he violated? Or did his doing the ISO set a precident for why we have the licenses now? As I understand he removed mfstools at riley's request -- so what's the beef?

he was banned for threatening the moderators and site admins and other such things. the specific reasons have been spelled out numerous times. if anything, he was given leaway due to his past contributions. there are some posts which were removed or edited at that time, so some info may be gone. however, im not sure why we need to continually revisit this issue. what positive purpose does going through this stuff over and over serve?

tbellomo
11-16-2004, 04:25 AM
I'm I the only who thinks nutkase is slightly overreacting? exactly, nutkase -- this is the sewer... why even respond? or shall I say, "love it or leave it" :rolleyes:

mrblack, yeah--i've heard the "threatening" remark before too -- but what provoked these threats? -- I'm actually curious as to where the conflict actually began. really, I am... what was that first conflict point? BTW, mrblack, I consider your passive yet forceful attitude the correct mixture for a moderator -- not that that means anything - jsut thought you should know.

--Timo

And Nutkase... seriously... you're taking this wayyyy to personally -- what I said was mostly in jest. Like you said -- i'm just an a-hole in the sewer; why get all up in arms? As for the politics -- it was used to better describe the group of people who currently subscribe to the L.I.O.L.I. philosophy -- like I said, hick was too broad. If you can't understand that then maybe you aptly described yourself -- ...again, i'm just joshin' you. I don't know you, you don't know me -- all we know are meaningless letters. grain of salt, man, grain of salt.

JJBliss
11-16-2004, 08:08 AM
mrblack, yeah--i've heard the "threatening" remark before too -- but what provoked these threats? -- I'm actually curious as to where the conflict actually began. really, I am... what was that first conflict point?
There is no reason to discuss this ad infinitum. The answers are here. Much like a poster asking for a piece of information that is easily found through a search and/or diligent reading, I suggest that you research the topic you are currently interested in.

Read all the threads (like the moderators do) that Sleeper EVER posted in, and see for yourself the slow degredation of his support, his attitude and his worth. Moreover, there are things that happened outside the scope of the public forum which you are not privvy to, nor will you be. The decision was made a long time ago now (in Internet time), and it's incessant discussion makes me weary.

It's good that you want more information on something that piques your curiousity. The dealdatabase management is not going to be held responsible for repeating the same thing over and over for every relative newcomer who wants the "backstory". Especially when the "backstory" is public knowledge as well. Good luck in your research.

My recommendation is to stay out of sewer threadds. Though they seem to amuse some, they lower an individuals credibility with the folks that matter. Take the high road. The management has no choice. The posters do.

Lost Dog
11-16-2004, 11:25 AM
Sorry -- didn't mean to offend any hicks :p

Here we go way off topic --

I was referring to the kind of people who would still support Bush even after his gross mishandlings of our nation. The ones that say "love it or leave it." Hick may have been too broad a term -- sorry

--Timo

Once again:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html

So you went from offending the "hick" crowd to offending over 50% of this nation's population. Good job!

Yeah, he sure mishandled this nation... My 401k was up over 30% last year. What a horrid economy!

AlphaWolf
11-16-2004, 11:45 AM
I voted for Bush :D FWIW I am about as atheist as you can get, and I don't live out in the backwoods. I have a 3.9 GPA so I must be one of the more dedicated urbanized hicks :D

alldeadhomiez
11-16-2004, 11:51 AM
So you went from offending the "hick" crowd to offending over 50% of this nation's population. Good job!

I think he intended to imply that the 50+% of Americans who voted for President Bush are "hicks."

If the birthdate listed in his profile is accurate, I can only assume he is a typical naive college-age liberal who has not yet learned that there are a lot of situations in which it's just plain inappropriate to bring up politics.

Or, he's just trying to be deliberately offensive (i.e. trolling).

tbellomo
11-16-2004, 12:01 PM
If the birthdate listed in his profile is accurate, I can only assume he is a typical naive college-age liberal who has not yet learned that there are a lot of situations in which it's just plain inappropriate to bring up politics.

Guys....

it's a forum SEWER! Inappropriate? come on!


So you went from offending the "hick" crowd to offending over 50% of this nation's population. Good job!

Exactly -- "hick" was inaccurate; and your constant reference to Canada's immigration site is only proving my point.


Yeah, he sure mishandled this nation... My 401k was up over 30% last year. What a horrid economy!

Good for you! The rest of the world still hates us.

Forget it...

NutKase
11-16-2004, 12:18 PM
Good for you! The rest of the world still hates us.

Forget it...

Too funny.

tbellomo,
Meet your signature:

"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to stop and reconsider your position." -- Mark Twain"


NutKase

tbellomo
11-16-2004, 12:39 PM
NutKase,

I guess it works both ways -- a la 51% of Americans for Bush.

I'm pretty sure Twain was addressing Americans; but I could be wrong, and I happen to think that an application to you and the majority of the USA is dead-on.

And just to clarify: Do I want the rest of the world to hate us? No. And it's not because I want to appease the rest of the world. I'd just rather improve our "homeland security" by improving our image in the world. It's more of a selfish motivation.

--Timo

snowman
11-16-2004, 01:17 PM
eh, there's a little of that. if you got into tivo back when there was no prom or initrd signature checking the current security is VERY annoying - and it's pretty much directly attributable to the extreme iso's

I can let most things go, but Riley, you JUST were interviewed in an article about Tivo hacking. You talk about keeping things from being too easy and too mainstream, but IMHO, you added to it by being interviewed for such a story.

Yep, danged if you do and danged if you don't. Double-edged sword and to make it even worse, you're a moderator, so you are put under a microscope to boot.

Soopaman
11-16-2004, 01:31 PM
Sorry guys, but Canada is full.

Unless you're a hot female bearing TiVos, that can name the capital cities in atleast 3 of our provinces, Americans need not apply. :D

But in all honesty guys, I have shared the same opinions from both sides of the ĘtrackĘ. I've had plenty of issues with the way things are developed, and how the key information needed to help the development was "hidden" from the public eye. Then I started looking outside myself for an answer to why they would be stingy with information, and it became clear - the potential of miss-use. I then looked at a majority of apps I've developed for my TiVo, and aside from my CC environment and iPod hack, everything else is oriented towards evil.

For alot of us new dev's, we think that the elders are being elitists by not sharing their discoveries, but I think the elitists are just covering their behinds. I have yet to see one single development that hasn't been abused. From "heros" to "eBay-scum", it seems as though everyone but the "elitist's" are profiting from their hard work. I know it's an excuse on why I don't release stuff publically. "Why should I release something that the elitist's wouldn't lend any information that would have sped up my development, and that hero's and ebay-scum will go profit off"

Before I waste more time on here procrastinating so I have to finish packing, I think instead of name calling or finger pointing, we have to learn to be mature enough to respect another person's opinion, especially when it conflicts on our own. That being said, it is also the responsibility of the individual with the conflicting opinion to voice it where and when it is appropriate. Don't show up/hijack another person's efforts because you have something to say. This post will probably go unnoticed, but look back on how quickly a thread only concerning Tiros and myself, quickly regressed into another mud-slinging and name calling contest.

Maybe the new quote of DDB should be "play nice, or leave"...

tbellomo
11-16-2004, 01:45 PM
Nice post, soopa.

I never expected anyone to take my "name-calling" seriously... but I guess I shouldn't have started with the whole "hick" analogy in the first place. (though LIOLI still bugs)

A good dose of maturity is in order.

--Timo

mrblack51
11-16-2004, 02:45 PM
Guys....

it's a forum SEWER! Inappropriate? come on!

just FYI - the sewer was meant to put thread crapping, troll posts, etc. it wasnt really meant to be a "well, i am already here, so i can say whatever i want to now" sort of area. hence the subtitle of being a walk of shame

tbellomo
11-16-2004, 02:55 PM
everyone wants to say their piece -- that's why the thread continues.
Example:

I think he intended to imply that the 50+% of Americans who voted for President Bush are "hicks."

If the birthdate listed in his profile is accurate, I can only assume he is a typical naive college-age liberal who has not yet learned that there are a lot of situations in which it's just plain inappropriate to bring up politics.

Or, he's just trying to be deliberately offensive (i.e. trolling).

Although I'm being accused of trolling -- ADH continues the thread with a little trolling of his own. It's human nature, I guess.

sewer threads aren't locked because the conversation isn't over. It's just gotten way off topic.

At least that's my interpretation of it -- I accept that I don't make the rules and could very well be wrong.

--Timo

JJBliss
11-16-2004, 03:20 PM
My recommendation is to stay out of sewer threadds. Though they seem to amuse some, they lower an individuals credibility with the folks that matter. Take the high road. The management has no choice. The posters do.

Taken from my post above

captain_video
11-16-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by JJBliss
My recommendation is to stay out of sewer threadds. Though they seem to amuse some, they lower an individuals credibility with the folks that matter. Take the high road. The management has no choice. The posters do.
Which is why I've generally chosen to stay out of them. It's sort of like sitting in the audience of the Jerry Springer Show while the posters are the ones on stage. The mods are just taking the part of Jerry and his band of bouncers while the rest of them just duke it out. I only pray that no one decides to take their clothes off! :eek:

tbellomo
11-16-2004, 05:29 PM
Yeah, but the Jerry Springer show guests were orchestrated by the Jerry Springer Show itself... so -- how's that work...

:)

-Timo

rc3105
11-16-2004, 06:26 PM
Yeah, but the Jerry Springer show guests were orchestrated by the Jerry Springer Show itself... so -- how's that work...

:)

-Timo
the trolls here seem to coordinate their efforts via email, pm & messenger(s)

*you guys do know the forum logs ip's right?

snowman
11-16-2004, 11:13 PM
the trolls here seem to coordinate their efforts via email, pm & messenger(s)

*you guys do know the forum logs ip's right?

A) I resent that. I'm usually lumped in with the trolls and just because I say something doesn't mean it wasn't my original thought without any input from anyone else. You took special pleasure in kicking me in the nads when I first started posting here, apparantly assuming that I knew someone here already which simply was never the case. However, that experience has only jaded me to treat you the way you treated me.

B) If Vbulletin doesn't allow you to monitor PMs, perhaps you should send them a nastygram. In either case, you can open up the tables in mysql and get the general gist anyway if there's not a control panel way to do it.

C) Anyone wanting to hide their identity needs only to Google for "anonymous proxy" and find list after list (some of which aren't functional). Not to mention, IPs are a dime an octet. Dial up users are almost guaranteed a different one just by hanging up and dialing in. DSL users are the same way. Heck, a simple ipconfig /release followed by ipconfig /renew will usually work wonders.

D) The only thing more plentiful than IP addresses are email accts.

Therefore, the only true logic to be applied here is that you're only going to catch the true *****s that don't try in any way to hide their tracks, in which case, chances are they're only screwing with you in the first place by NOT trying to hide their identity. If someone truly wants to take the time to screw with you, all you can do is close each hole as it opens up or go private completely, which doesn't do much for the number of hits.

rc3105
11-17-2004, 12:28 AM
A) I resent that. I'm usually lumped in with the trolls and just because I say something doesn't mean it wasn't my original thought without any input from anyone else. You took special pleasure in kicking me in the nads when I first started posting here, apparantly assuming that I knew someone here already which simply was never the case. However, that experience has only jaded me to treat you the way you treated me.

huh??? I was responding to tbellmo's question about troll choreography

you got the penalty box only after repeatedly ignoring polite (and not so polite, mea culpa) tips on forum etiquite from the management




B) If Vbulletin doesn't allow you to monitor PMs, perhaps you should send them a nastygram. In either case, you can open up the tables in mysql and get the general gist anyway if there's not a control panel way to do it.

why the hell would we want to monitor pm's??? who wants to belong to a forum where the mods read private messages??? do you read other's pm's on your fishing site??? <yike!>



C) Anyone wanting to hide their identity needs only to Google for "anonymous proxy" and find list after list (some of which aren't functional). Not to mention, IPs are a dime an octet. Dial up users are almost guaranteed a different one just by hanging up and dialing in. DSL users are the same way. Heck, a simple ipconfig /release followed by ipconfig /renew will usually work wonders.

D) The only thing more plentiful than IP addresses are email accts.

Therefore, the only true logic to be applied here is that you're only going to catch the true *****s that don't try in any way to hide their tracks, in which case, chances are they're only screwing with you in the first place by NOT trying to hide their identity. If someone truly wants to take the time to screw with you, all you can do is close each hole as it opens up or go private completely, which doesn't do much for the number of hits.
fair enough. same thing can be said for law enforcement, not a lot of rocket scientists in jail

oddly enough, the troll <-> i*d*i*o*t correlation is rather high. *who'd have guessed?

it's enlightening to compare ip's & run infiltration utils against troll addy's, some of them are running sub7 or worse and don't even know it

snowman
11-17-2004, 12:41 PM
why the hell would we want to monitor pm's??? who wants to belong to a forum where the mods read private messages??? do you read other's pm's on your fishing site??? <yike!>


Nope, but there really aren't a lot of legality concerns about fishing. Besides, I don't run Vbulletin. I run open source software.