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View Full Version : TiVo HMO over SSH?



dogdoo
12-23-2004, 01:32 AM
What ports does the TiVo use for HMO? I would like to setup an SSH tunnel to my friends house and link the two tivos, I think it would work because the end of the tunnel just pretends to be on the other network... anyway, if anyone has a complete list of ports I will try and set it up and post my results.

Could be the perfect way to link remote TiVos... ;)

CySurflex
12-24-2004, 02:14 PM
checkout JavaHMO, which is a replacement of the Tivo Desktop app for HMO, one of the help/info/FAQ pages discusses the port#.

dogdoo
12-27-2004, 01:18 AM
It looks like the ports mentioned are just for the audio and picture viewing capability, I would like to forward the appropriate ports for streaming video.

IE: I am going to make my linux server look to the tivo like a tivo on a remote network and vice versa.

Anybody out there who has two tivo's and the know how to see what ports I need to be forwarding?

Jamie
12-27-2004, 02:27 AM
Anybody out there who has two tivo's and the know how to see what ports I need to be forwarding?You'd need to be able to forward udp ports and broadcast packets.

DocTauri
12-27-2004, 07:55 AM
Two of my friends are doing this via VPN pretty effectively. Not the fastest beast, but functional.

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39034&highlight=vpn

Doc

dogdoo
12-27-2004, 12:58 PM
Two of my friends are doing this via VPN pretty effectively. Not the fastest beast, but functional.

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39034&highlight=vpn

Doc

There are a few reasons that a VPN is not feasable for us... but I won't get into that. With SSH you can forward whatever ports that you need and it will just move the traffic to the other end... so broadcast, etc should be no problem. I just need to know what specific port numbers are used as I can't find any documentation on the inter-tivo networking, and I don't have two tivo's available to sniff.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far, keep 'em coming. Got to be someone out there!

fixn278
12-27-2004, 01:01 PM
I think this discussion crosses the "Show Swapping" line and may cause the board owner grief.

Jamie
12-27-2004, 01:11 PM
With SSH you can forward whatever ports that you need and it will just move the traffic to the other end... so broadcast, etc should be no problem. I just need to know what specific port numbers are used as I can't find any documentation on the inter-tivo networking, and I don't have two tivo's available to sniff.As far as I can tell, ssh does not have the ability to forward udp ports.

TiVo's annouce to each other via broadcasts on udp port 2190. If you can forward these broadcast packets, you should be able to see the remote tivo's in the Now Showing list.

cojonesdetoro
12-27-2004, 01:38 PM
I can tell you without a doubt that most (if not all) SSH implementations will not forward network broadcasts nor any UDP traffic. It only forwards TCP connections to hosts on the far side.

That being said, it is possible to do PPP-over-SSH giving you a more VPN-like implementation of SSH tunneling. It can work well but there are instances where this makes a very poor VPN solution:

http://sites.inka.de/sites/bigred/devel/tcp-tcp.html

BTW: If SSH works for you but VPN does not, maybe it's because most VPN solutions require native IPSec and can't be address-translated. Give CIPE a try (at above linked site).


Does anyone know if the Tivo-Tivo protocol can tolerate being address translated?

Some protocols send IP address information within the data payload (FTP, Citrix, h.323 and lots more). If Tivos do this then the apparent IP at the far end needs to be the 'real' IP address of the Tivo. There's probably also a restriction that they be on the same subnet. This means that you have to either bridge the networks or split them using subnets that the Tivo 'thinks' are a supernet and use proxyARP.

Adress translation would not require such ugliness if it did not break the Tivo protocol.

BTW: SSH Tunneling performs an address translation.

cojonesdetoro
12-27-2004, 01:47 PM
I think this discussion crosses the "Show Swapping" line and may cause the board owner grief.

I don't think this discussion would allow a prolifieration of Tivo show swapping. The techniques that are usable in this regard are so complicated that it's only possible amongst very small groups of people. Until someone writes an app to facilitate the process, we can be pretty sure that it will only happen between some geek and his/her brother/sister/uncle/parent/friend. I believe that still falls under 'fair use' although there's that nasty DMCA....

BTW, The MPAA still hasn't gone after poopli ( A service that DOES allow prolifieration amongst legacy ReplayTV units). I wonder how long that will last? I figure they'll fall before a thread like this draws attention.

At least we still have usenet. I'm all caught up to episode 9 of the new battlestar galactica series airing only on SkyONE in the UK. DivX files play great on a hacked Xbox-->analog out-->Tivo combination.

dogdoo
12-28-2004, 07:46 PM
Ok, how about UDPTunnel (http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~lennox/udptunnel/) for the UDP traffic? Do all the transfers go over a UDP connection, or will I still need to forward ports?

cojonesdetoro
01-04-2005, 02:09 PM
This looks like a simple application that listens on one end for UDP traffic and transmits on the other end.

They talk about binding to "INADDR_ANY" which probably means that the remote end does not see the 'real' IP address of the remote Tivo. This may or may not be a good thing. I'm not sure if NAT breaks the HMO protocol. It probably also does not forward broadcasts.

But it's worth a shot to try it.

I think the simplest choice would be a bridged LAN. In this way the Tivos are on the same logical network and don't "know" that there is any remote traffic taking place. You would need a VPN solution that supports ethernet bridging.

EDIT: I can alsmost guarantee that if you can get this working:

http://bridge.sourceforge.net/

HMO will work. This completely eliminates layer 3 (Where the IP stuff lives) and forwards raw ethernet frames. Broadcasts and everything else will work. You just have to find a way to do this over a tunnel of some sort.


BTW: Further reading shows this is very possible. I know that a VPN is not workable for you but it looks like the best and only viable alternative.

http://www.pavelec.net/adam/openvpn/bridge/
http://openvpn.sourceforge.net/bridge.html

cmylxgo
01-04-2005, 05:05 PM
You can use a Ethernet Bridged VPN to get broadcast across your tunnel. OpenVPN allows you to choose the port the VPN is going to use. I have used it to get two HMO Tivos to talk to each other over this type of setup.

http://openvpn.sourceforge.net/