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View Full Version : Dissatisfied with PTVUpgrade's sales process



lightiv
12-30-2004, 10:41 PM
Ok well...that was a waste of $20. I assumed the ISO would be 4.x but it's 3.1.1b which is older than whats on the TiVo. Is there a problem with PTVupgrade since I selected DVR80 and the ISO is for DVR40? :eek:

It looks like I still have to beg/pleed and hunt for a 4.x image! :(

NutKase
12-30-2004, 11:16 PM
Ok well...that was a waste of $20. I assumed the ISO would be 4.x but it's 3.1.1b which is older than whats on the TiVo. Is there a problem with PTVupgrade since I selected DVR80 and the ISO is for DVR40? :eek:

It looks like I still have to beg/pleed and hunt for a 4.x image! :(

I'm not familiar with ptv upgrade as I said, but I can assure you that you shouldn't get 4.x as an option if you select any Dtivo since 4.x was never released for dtivos.

Don't they have a return policy? As confusing as things are I'd think that would be mandatory.


NutKase

lightiv
12-30-2004, 11:50 PM
Well, they cover themselves pretty good but I may have an out since the download is for the DVR-40 w/3.1.1b and I should be getting 3.1.1c with the DVR-80.

The following is from there site:

InstantCake Software Warranty and Support
All _PTVupgrade InstantCake software products are released and distributed, without warranty, under the GNU General Public License, you are free to copy, modify and redistribute them in accordance with the GPL. Software products are not eligible for a refund, however they may be returned for credit towards the purchase of upgrade kits and services. Downloadable products are not eligible for refund or credit.

lightiv
12-31-2004, 12:26 AM
Well does anyone know if the e-Mule Tivo-s2-4.0.1b-02-2-xxx.mfs 162.65 MB is a good image. Or how would I know if it's a good image myself?

I don't know if PTVupgrade_ will help me out by actually letting me download the product I wanted. I'm not getting a warm feeling about that. I know it's my screw up but my intention all along was to get the 4.0.1 image as you can tell by my proir post.

NutKase
12-31-2004, 12:31 AM
Downloadable products are not eligible for refund or credit.

I should've figured that.

Of course they'd have no way of preventing the 'it was the wrong one, I just deleted it and will find it somewhere else - refund please' crowd otherwise.


NutKase

jayazusa
12-31-2004, 01:35 AM
Take a look at this forum (http://forum.ptvupgrade.com/showthread.php?t=658) I just purchased an InstantCake Image disk from them with the 4.0.1b on it, getting information and a straight answer from them was difficult but I got the image. I have downloaded a couple from emule and not had good sucess but this one nice clean. I have loaded it on several drives works great. It was worth the $20.


That is my $0.02

Jay

PTVupgrade
12-31-2004, 12:43 PM
Ok well...that was a waste of $20. I assumed the ISO would be 4.x but it's 3.1.1b which is older than whats on the TiVo. Is there a problem with PTVupgrade since I selected DVR80 and the ISO is for DVR40? :eek:

It looks like I still have to beg/pleed and hunt for a 4.x image! :(

Just an example of one of the many posts here that I might respond to in this context. Let me explain something, with the hopes that it will bring some clarity.

We have no way of knowing the particular context of which you might be using InstantCake. The only thing you should assume with IC is that the revision of the software is appropriate for the unit for which it was designed, so for DirecTiVo units, some derivative of 3.1.1 is what should be expected (your unit will download the latest revision if the revision IC installs is not the latest -- [ie version c will update to e if you are authorized for it]); for SA units, its going to be a 4.X revision - in most cases 4.01b2, but a few of the older models TCD 130/140 contain 4.0.

Obviously, this is an off-the-beaten path hack and we don't want to be seen as marketing "the wrong software for the wrong box (at the wrong time) :-)" so attention to these details is probably a good idea.

Hope that helps.

HUGE
12-31-2004, 12:53 PM
I see that PTV has new upgrade CD(s) - PTVupgrade LBA48 CD v4.0 w/ and w/o Enhancements. If anyonw knows what changes (if any) need to be made to the guide please shoot me a PM.



Thanks,

HUGE

PTVupgrade
12-31-2004, 12:57 PM
I see that PTV has new upgrade CD(s) - PTVupgrade LBA48 CD v4.0 w/ and w/o Enhancements. If anyonw knows what changes (if any) need to be made to the guide please shoot me a PM.



Thanks,

HUGE

FYI - the current release has the potential to cause some confusion, and I apologize in advance for any it may cause. Boot-time default for 4.0 has been changed from no byte-swapping to byte-swapping more details here (http://forum.ptvupgrade.com/showthread.php?t=959)) and in retrospect, that may have been a bad idea. 4.01 release coming soon, it will be back to the way it was done with the 3.01 CD and documented as such in the startup screens.

lightiv
12-31-2004, 01:29 PM
Just an example of one of the many posts here that I might respond to in this context. Let me explain something, with the hopes that it will bring some clarity.

We have no way of knowing the particular context of which you might be using InstantCake. The only thing you should assume with IC is that the revision of the software is appropriate for the unit for which it was designed, so for DirecTiVo units, some derivative of 3.1.1 is what should be expected (your unit will download the latest revision if the revision IC installs is not the latest -- [ie version c will update to e if you are authorized for it]); for SA units, its going to be a 4.X revision - in most cases 4.01b2, but a few of the older models TCD 130/140 contain 4.0.

Obviously, this is an off-the-beaten path hack and we don't want to be seen as marketing "the wrong software for the wrong box (at the wrong time) :-)" so attention to these details is probably a good idea.

Hope that helps.


Hi and thanks for responding to my posts. Please see the PM I just sent you.

Thanks again

NutKase
12-31-2004, 04:50 PM
Hi,
I bought the new PTV lba48-4.0 disk last nght hoping to expand my 160gig drive.
After 6 hours of attempting to use the guide and the new PTVbake-special script.....I was unsuccessful and had to go back to a 137gig limited drive.
The best I could get was success down to the point where I was checking my bootpage. It gave the warning about byte swapping? And the disk would not boot in the TiVo.
Any ideas on how to disable the byte swapping on the new disk? or how to fix it on my TiVo drive?
I really don't want to have to pay another $5 to get the updated disk again.
Thanks,
Scott

Why don't you ask the people you bought the disk from. Contrary to what it looks like we're not their support sytem.

They have a forum here (http://forum.ptvupgrade.com/).


NutKase

PTVupgrade
12-31-2004, 05:16 PM
Why don't you ask the people you bought the disk from. Contrary to what it looks like we're not their support sytem.

They have a forum here (http://forum.ptvupgrade.com/).


NutKase

Yup - NutKase is correct.

Firstly, if you are having the byte-swapping issue with a Series1 InstantCake image,
here is the workaround (http://forum.ptvupgrade.com/showthread.php?t=975); you don't need to purchase anything to make it work. Let's take this discussion off of DDB and to where it belongs.

Secondly, 4.0 of the bootCD is no longer available. 4.01 is. The default boot is no byte-swapping, just as the 3.01 CD was. If you have a 4.0 CD, all you have to do is type "noswap" at the boot prompt and it will come up the same way as 3.01/4.01 - everything else is EXACTLY the same.

Seriously, though - DDB is not the place for questions and support related to PTVupgrade products; use http://forum.ptvupgrade.com, provide as much detail as possible, and remember to read through what is there before posting your questions.

Thx

lightiv
12-31-2004, 08:18 PM
I'm back on track and I have my PC setup as:

New TiVo drive (Maxtor 160GB) as Primary Master (hda)
CD Rom as Secondary Master (hdc)

I'm writing the steps I'm taking as I go. I'll eventually post here. Note that they are based on Huge's instructions here.

While there will be references to _PTVupgrade products in my instructions understand that I do not support their business practice of (in my words based on what happened to me) "if you buy the wrong product then screw you since we have already got our money."

lightiv
01-01-2005, 02:34 AM
Well I went to were I really did not want to go! Back to (my words) "We really don't give a damn about our customer as long as we've got our money!" and purchased Instant Cake for the Series 2 Stanalone TiVo units model TCD240080. That'll get you a clean 4.01b. Apparently any of the TCD240 models will get you the 4.01b.

Well I guess _PTVupgrade is a company that is reflective of our harsh society that is so unforgiving and does not offer a second chance when one makes a mistake. Do they have any concept of "Customer Service!" Obviously not since they tell their customers to be more careful next time. That is not customer service! Believe me if I could have found the product elsewhere there would not have been a next time.

My desire for you _PTVupgrade is that you business fortunes is the same as what you afford your customers. You are in essence cut throat with us so I hope that the same befalls your business.

This has been my experience with them. As usual your mileage will hopefully vary and be better than my experence.

I'll let you know how it goes with a clean image.

shawn
01-01-2005, 02:33 PM
A potential buyer comes here and is referred elsewhere to buy an image, then of course comes back here for support. Then gets slammed for doing so.
There is no support over there for HMO and RID TIVO and that is what everyone is after. Of course they will end up back here.
It is kinda confusing to the new people.

NutKase
01-01-2005, 02:52 PM
A potential buyer comes here and is referred elsewhere to buy an image, then of course comes back here for support. Then gets slammed for doing so.
There is no support over there for HMO and RID TIVO and that is what everyone is after. Of course they will end up back here.
It is kinda confusing to the new people.

The original release thread said:



a good 4.x image. if you don't have one try p2p or PTV_upgrade
*TCD240080 is a smaller download but requires an 80 gig or larger hard drive, use TCD240040 if you only have a factory 40

instantcake is a tivo authorized source for a clean 4.x images, but 4.x doesn't include lba48 support by default and neither does instantcake


Note ptv upgrade being last. That said I don't like the fact that it's so prominently mentioned at all and wish it would clearly state that folks should go there for problems relating to "wrong image" or "can't boot because you guys changed to 'swap' for some stupid reason" etc..

If ptv upgrade is the only official source for good images the images should be listed with clear descriptions and downloadable as .mfs or .bak files that will work with mfsrestore, NOT some 'cake' cd that makes someone learn something that hasn't been documented for 3 yrs or ask for support.

It's my opinion that the images are released as they are specifically to create a support requirement or a tie to ptv upgrade and it's products. I may not have it right there and I'm sure I'll be disagreed with but look at the board.


NutKase

shawn
01-01-2005, 03:09 PM
It does include some strong anti certain website statements.

Can somebody explain why sites can sell the images for download but all free sites will be sued for allowing free downloads. Was it really Tivo that threatened to sue all the free image sharing sites? I mean were they just trying to help out small business in selling their images.
Imagine that meeting,

"OK no more free downloads of our images, if they want to sell them fine, i hope they make a ton of cash but i will be damned if they are going to give them away on my watch while somebody other then us can get rich off them. Jimmy call our Lawyers. I want a letter sent right away. There are websites out there that need our help and can make alot of money if we help them"
Lets do lunch!

JJBliss
01-01-2005, 03:22 PM
Can somebody explain why sites can sell the images for download but all free sites will be sued for allowing free downloads
No, but if you'd like, bring that question up at the PTVUpgrade forum. I'm sure you'll get a definitive answer there.


Was it really Tivo that threatened to sue all the free image sharing sites?
Absolutely. They were relatively pleasant about it, but persistent. Those of us that read the legal notices were just as shocked as anyone, but comliance was not an option.

lightiv
01-01-2005, 03:25 PM
I don't understand the criticisms here of PTVupgrade. The instructions I read for doing this conversion clearly stated that one should obtain the Series 2 SA 4.0 "InstantCake" (if going that route) and not the DTiVo version (which obviously would be 3.x). Anyone half-awake should realize that you don't get 4.0 on a DTiVo by installing stock DTiVo software. But, now having read this thread's version of HUGE's guide, (I had not seen it before), I can see this "detail" was omitted - it was clearly stated in the original "4.0 on RID Files" instructions.

It is not PTVupgrade's fault if you ordered the wrong InstantCake, and I would not expect them to refund you if you made this goof.

I am starting to understand the point of view of those who dislike "guides", especially if they encourage people to neither think nor learn for themselves.


Well I think this is the perverbal pink elephant in the corner. I will stipulate that I may be dead wrong here but I do beleave that 95% of the people buying images from PTVupgrade to hack there TiVo to get features such as TiVoWeb, Networking and etc. If I was them I would add to the Instant Cake Product description the actual software version that you are receiving:

InstantCake for Series2 DirecTV/TiVo Combo Units (Software version 3.1.1c)

Price: $19.99

That would do everyone a service and save them from having people complain about them. Seems like a pretty simple fix to me.

As to "it is not _PTVupgade's fault I order the wrong product"...yeah that is true but is it clothing stores' (for example) fault that you may buy the wrong size or even if you decide the product doesn't meet your expected need in the case of Wal-Mart and many others they will at the very least allow you to exchange the product.

If _PTVupgrade followed the above suggestion with all their image product descriptions no one would be able to complain. I most certainly would not. While the software business is very much different than retail you need to be very descript in your 'software' product description since you don't want to give two products for the price of one.

Basically _PTVupgrade is not doing the easy things to make sure their customers buy the right product.

With that said I'm done talking about them. I don't have any friends here that have access to TiVo images so _PTVupgrade is the only game in town for me in the future. I don't know if in the future I'll have the need to upgrade again because of some new feature. I will try every other means to get an image before going to them!

JJBliss
01-01-2005, 03:34 PM
Well I think this is the perverbal pink elephant in the corner. I will stipulate that I may be dead wrong here but I do beleave that 95% of the people buying images from PTVupgrade to hack there TiVo to get features such as TiVoWeb, Networking and etc.
This is purely conjecture. You might very well be dead wrong as you so eloquently put it.


If I was them I would add to the Instant Cake Product description the actual software version that you are receiving:

InstantCake for Series2 DirecTV/TiVo Combo Units (Software version 3.1.1c)

Price: $19.99

But, alas, you're not them and neither are we.


That would do everyone a service and save them from having people complain about them. Seems like a pretty simple fix to me.
Then take it up with them on their website. It doesn't seem like a discussion for DDB.



As to "it is not _PTVupgade's fault I order the wrong product"...yeah that is true but is it clothing stores' (for example) fault that you may buy the wrong size or even if you decide the product doesn't meet your expected need in the case of Wal-Mart and many others they will at the very least allow you to exchange the product.
Software, more precisely downloadable software does not fall into the same category.


so _PTVupgrade is the only game in town for me in the future. I don't know if in the future I'll have the need to upgrade again because of some new feature. I will try every other means to get an image before going to them!
Good luck. I'm sure the Tivo attorneys will never catch you. However, if they do I'd like to know how you handle it.

This post, along with all others dealing with your dissatisfaction with PTVUpgrade's sales process will be split to an appropriate thread and then locked since I don't want to see any more discussion on the topic, and you've already said that you're done talking about them.

EDIT:
I've decided not to lock this thread, so I moved it into the Problem with Companies forum.

rc3105
01-01-2005, 06:12 PM
The original release thread said:


a good 4.x image. if you don't have one try p2p or PTV_upgrade
*TCD240080 is a smaller download but requires an 80 gig or larger hard drive, use TCD240040 if you only have a factory 40

instantcake is a tivo authorized source for a clean 4.x images, but 4.x doesn't include lba48 support by default and neither does instantcake

Note ptv upgrade being last. That said I don't like the fact that it's so prominently mentioned at all and wish it would clearly state that folks should go there for problems relating to "wrong image" or "can't boot because you guys changed to 'swap' for some stupid reason" etc..

duly noted, one of these days I'll spend an afternoon reviewing everybody's posts/problems/input and try to overhaul the instructions in that thread


PTV upgrade (http://downloads.ptvupgrade.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PLST) can't sell uma6fix (TiVo would freak) and we can't host images. the main thing to remember is that they're a TiVo authorized source for one piece of the puzzle


assembling the puzzle is the fun part ;)

NutKase
01-01-2005, 06:18 PM
duly noted, one of these days I'll spend an afternoon reviewing everybody's posts/problems/input and try to overhaul the instructions in that thread


PTV upgrade (http://downloads.ptvupgrade.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PLST) can't sell uma6fix (TiVo would freak) and we can't host images. the main thing to remember is that they're a TiVo authorized source for one piece of the puzzle


assembling the puzzle is the fun part ;)

Yeah, the main problem is the 'guide's' just jump on ptv upgrade methods and the 'followers' don't even read your release thread which explains things pretty well.

Not, complaining at you :).


NutKase