TiVo Desktop 2.0 and T2G (aka: TivoToGo Tivo2Go TTG) (merged) [Archive] - DealDatabase Forum - Deals, Freebies, and TiVo & DirecTivo Hacking

rickytv

12-30-2004, 02:21 PM

At the risk of proving myself a fool for talking (as opposed to keeping quiet and appearing wise), I'm wondering if folks have given any thought to what it will take to support TiVOToGo for Linux boxes?

I don't run Windows at home, and I DO have a Series 2 with a Lifetime subscription. While I have added storage to my S2, I haven't done anything else to it. And to be honest, with the use of JavaHMO, have found little need to do so outside of the pain I get when it comes time to back up shows so I have room to record more "stuff".

Since it appears that TTG will use a similar concept to HMO of having the TiVO be a front-end to an application running on the PC, it seems like it "should" be possible to do something similar to JavaHMO to support Linux and perhaps Mac boxes as well.

Is there anyone coordinating a group of developers to start building once TTG has already been released? Is TiVO likely to publish the specs for the interface once it's released? Is it time to get a project up on Sourceforge to be ready to "hit the ground running" once TTG is out?

Thanks,
Ricky

Montaño

01-03-2005, 05:02 PM

I saw that there was a new version of TiVo Desktop with the T2G feature. I downloaded it to play around, and it would seem that all that is needed to access T2G is a 'Media Access Key'

From TiVo's webpage:
Media Access Key — What is it and why do I need one?
The Media Access Key is a security feature for TiVoToGo transfers. Every TiVo account is assigned a unique 10-digit Media Access Key which enables secure transfers and viewing of your transferred shows.

Important note: You will need your media access key when you are installing the TiVo Desktop software.

Click to go back to the top of the screen

How do I find my Media Access Key?
To locate your Media Access Key, you first need to make sure you have the correct version of the TiVo software. Click here for instructions on how to check your software version.

If you have the correct TiVo service software version, then on your TiVo box go to TiVo Central > Messages and Setup > Account & System Information > Media Access Key.

You can also get your media access key online at: tivo.com/accesskey

Important note: You will need your media access key when you are installing the TiVo Desktop software.

Montaño

01-03-2005, 05:06 PM

Here's the new 'Now Playing' screen for TiVo Desktop 2.0

Interesting info on DVD burning:

Can I burn this to DVD?
Yes! You can burn your transferred shows to DVD for viewing anywhere you have a DVD player or for storage of your favorite shows. In order to burn DVDs you will need to purchase the Sonic MyDVD software.

The Sonic MyDVD software will be released in mid-January. Sign up here to be notified when the FREE trial of the Sonic software is released.

Click to go back to the top of the screen

I just want to store my shows onto DVD. Do I still need to purchase the Sonic DVD software?
Maybe. If you simply want to store your shows onto DVD and transfer them back to your PC for viewing at a later time then most existing DVD playing/burning software will allow this functionality. This is basically a data backup of the file. You WILL NOT be able to view your burned shows from these DVDs though.

The Sonic MyDVD software that will be released in mid-January will allow you to burn DVDs that are playable in DVD players. Sign up here to be notified when the FREE trial of the Sonic software is released.

JJBliss

01-03-2005, 05:38 PM

and it would seem that all that is needed to access T2G is a 'Media Access Key'

And of course, Tivo Software version 7.1

rcork

01-03-2005, 06:07 PM

lenroc

01-03-2005, 08:02 PM

What I'm waiting to see is if it transfers the shows directly as stored on the Tivo or if it does some sort of transcoding to bring the size down. Right now my hour long shows are approx. 1.6 to 2 Gigs. Also, when someone has it up and running, could they post on whether the shows are stored as archivable files which can then be backed up, or do the bury them in the Tivo Desktop software.

Both questions have been answered in this thread.

The previous posts mention that the files are transcoded (but, admittedly, does not mention to what bitrate or any other specifics...), and that the files can be archived to DVD (but not in a format that a DVD player can play).

ttabbal

01-04-2005, 12:09 PM

Both questions have been answered in this thread.

The previous posts mention that the files are transcoded (but, admittedly, does not mention to what bitrate or any other specifics...), and that the files can be archived to DVD (but not in a format that a DVD player can play).

Which is why I can't figgure out why anyone here would care. Sure, it's a big deal on TCF, but we allready have better extraction capabilities without the restrictions. I haven't seen anything T2G gives me that I don't allready have with TyTool. Am I missing something?

AlphaWolf

01-04-2005, 02:49 PM

Shaun

01-04-2005, 02:53 PM

Which is why I can't figgure out why anyone here would care. Sure, it's a big deal on TCF, but we allready have better extraction capabilities without the restrictions. I haven't seen anything T2G gives me that I don't allready have with TyTool. Am I missing something?

IMHO: Not everyone out there wants to hack their tivo. I've got dtivo so mucking around in the system to enable HMO and TyTools was a necessity. However, if D* had upgraded the software and given us the ability to network and transfer then I wouldn't have had to modify my S2. Furthermore, while this community makes it possible for a noob like me to do these things, the process is far from quick, easy and painless the first time around. Some people just don't have the ability or don't want to take the time to learn and perform these procedures and all the variations. Personally, I started down the wrong path several time because of the vast quantity of info on this board.

Seriously though, why should a person have to spend 3 1/2 days solid modifying a box just to be able to save a few video recordings? I did it. I don't regret having done it. But I do resent the fact that it took so long. In retrospect I would have been better off paying someone to do the mods so I could have spent that time with my kids.

Anyways, the hacks are workable but if an easier way is available via TivoToGo then why not use it? Don't forget that Tivo's target market is Joe-average-consumer not uberhackers and technophiles. If TivoToGo employs DRM that prevents you from using the recordings that way you want then hack the box.

alldeadhomiez

01-04-2005, 03:32 PM

IMHO: Not everyone out there wants to hack their tivo.

Sure, but the question is why anyone here would care - not whether this is an appealing feature for members of the general public. Clearly, the masses want video extraction, and this provides them with a (crippled) form of it.

I concur with AW that our community's predominent interest in TTG is that it may provide a "perfect" tystream parser/muxer, or at least improve our understanding of the format.

Shaun

01-04-2005, 04:16 PM

Sure, but the question is why anyone here would care - not whether this is an appealing feature for members of the general public.

Seems to me that you, and possibly others, are assuming that the only people reading this board and posting here are doing so because they get a kick out of hacking their tivo. Frankly, there are some, myself included, who just want certain feature and this happens to be the most comprehensive place to find ways to set up those features. I suppose I was just trying to point out that there might some on this board that care about T2G because they don't want to go through the entire hacking process or maybe they aren't satisfied with TyTools.

As I mentioned before, I'm glad I modded my dtivo. I sometimes brag about having done it. However, when it comes to tivo skills, I am an ant among giants here. I went into the process feeling prepared after reading more threads than I can recall. However, I soon began to hate the process when things didn't go according to directions. Eventually I got it to work. Now, I have a little better understanding of what's going on under the hood but I'm far from a thorough understanding. I also don't expect I will ever have that thorough understanding because I got the box to do what I wanted.

Having said that, I would like to take this opportunity to thank those who have developed the knowledge, the processes and the tools and shared with all so that even a noob like me can modify my dtivo - to give it the feature it should have come with from the factory. alldeadhomiez, some of your posts helped me. Other's I'd like to thank include AlphaWolf and JDiner. A special thanks to Linda because she did her mods just before I did mine and she asked most of the questions I was going to ask.

alldeadhomiez

01-04-2005, 04:41 PM

Seems to me that you, and possibly others, are assuming that the only people reading this board and posting here are doing so because they get a kick out of hacking their tivo. Frankly, there are some, myself included, who just want certain feature and this happens to be the most comprehensive place to find ways to set up those features.

This board exists for the benefit of hobbyists, not end users - period.

I reiterate my statement that TTG offers very few benefits for this crowd.

jteloh

01-04-2005, 05:19 PM

I concur with AW that our community's predominent interest in TTG is that it may provide a "perfect" tystream parser/muxer, or at least improve our understanding of the format.
I think this IS the most important aspect of TTG for most of our members. With the introduction of the "media key", we may now have the ability to bypass some of the tivoapp patches or perhaps just feed
encrpted streams to the Tivodesktop. I would personaly like to see better Mac support out of this.

judremy

01-05-2005, 12:49 PM

Well you can request the software update for your machine via a page at:

http://www.tivo.com/priority

This update is for TiVo Series2 Digital Video Recorders only! DIRECTV DVR with TiVo, and TiVo Series1 DVRs are not eligible for this update.

· Only DVRs with TiVo Service Numbers beginning with the following characters are eligible for this software:
110, 130, 140, 230, 240, 264, 540, 590.

(You can find your TiVo Service Number by going to:
TiVo Central -> Messages and Setup -> System Information. )

· DVD Recorders with TiVo models from Humax, Toshiba, and Pioneer will not receive the TiVoToGo feature until later this year. Please do not sign up at the priority list if you have a DVD Recorder with a TiVo Service Number beginning with:
275, 565, 595.

· Series1 TiVo boxes and DIRECTV Receiver with TiVo boxes will not receive the TiVoToGo Home Media feature.

ttabbal

01-05-2005, 01:58 PM

Since tivo designed the tystream format, they definitely know more about it than anybody. With that said, they'll probably know the best method for converting the streams to DVD without any errors at all that we currently have to deal with.

Okay, I can certainly see that. Of course, the existing TTG you can download today can't go to DVD yet. We might be able to learn from thier parser/muxer though.

How many errors do we have to deal with these days? I have been doing extraction with TyTool for years now and have had no problems playing the DVDs I've burned. Sure, some DVD players don't like the 480x480 resolution, and some apps don't like some of the streams, but I haven't seen anything real serious. Perhaps I'm just lucky there...

ttabbal

01-05-2005, 02:16 PM

Seriously though, why should a person have to spend 3 1/2 days solid modifying a box just to be able to save a few video recordings? I did it. I don't regret having done it. But I do resent the fact that it took so long. In retrospect I would have been better off paying someone to do the mods so I could have spent that time with my kids.

Did it really take you that long? My S1 DTivo took me a couple hours to do an HD upgrade and hack for extraction etc... My 2 SD-DVR80s took me about 3 hours total work that I had to be there for. Most of the time they took was doing the Clear and Delete Everything and one GSOD recovery. I didn't hang out and wait for all that, I started the process and did something else. Like any other hobby, it takes time. I did it so I could get HMO and extraction. My wife is thrilled with the results.

It would be nice to have it built in, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. TTG is interesting, but without DVD burning, it's useless to me. And I won't spend $70 on the burning app either. I have burning apps, I don't need another one. With TyTool, I can use what I have, for free, and have more flexability. For example, I can create my own DVD menus and use the Nero I allready have to burn with.

Besides, hacking is half the fun. But this is also a hobby to me, I do some of it just to see if I can. :D

AlphaWolf

01-05-2005, 07:52 PM

How many errors do we have to deal with these days? I have been doing extraction with TyTool for years now and have had no problems playing the DVDs I've burned. Sure, some DVD players don't like the 480x480 resolution, and some apps don't like some of the streams, but I haven't seen anything real serious. Perhaps I'm just lucky there...

There exist numerous problems with stream sync and outright drops of video or audio when you attempt to process the streams (even with really good editors like videoredo.) Sure dvd can work ok 95% of the time, but if you are anything like me you don't really like having stacks of DVDs sitting around and you also need functionality that only exists in some commercial editors, and you don't want to do lossy (and slow) frameserving either. In that situation these issues are more prevalent, especially in directv streams.

dB02

01-05-2005, 09:15 PM

Anyone messed around w/ .tivo files yet... I am really going to want to reencode them to DivX for my Archos, but w/ the DRM it doesnt look like taht will be possible... What do you all think can be done

coolwrld

01-06-2005, 12:08 PM

As I'm sure most of you are aware Tivo has now launched its Tivo Togo service. I have been lucky enought to get the new software (Desktop v2 and Tivo v7.1). I pulled my first file off the Tivo using the new desktop software. The resulting file on the PC is a .tivo file. In order to play this file back you have to use the Desktop software which kinda sucks as I have the Desktop installed on my server and not me PC. In addition to this requirement you also need to wait for a new version of Sonic MyDVD (must purchase) to actually burn the .tivo files to DVD for playback in a home DVD player.

Has anyone else tried the new Tivo Togo service and been able to figure out what the .tivo file really is so that it can be played back using something other then the Tivo Desktop software. I can't believe there isn't something out there that can take the .tivo file and create the necessary pieces to use any DVD software to make playable DVDs.

alldeadhomiez

01-06-2005, 12:24 PM

I can't believe there isn't something out there that can take the .tivo file and create the necessary pieces to use any DVD software to make playable DVDs.

TTG (and consequently, the .tivo format) has been out about 4 days.

Have you written software to break the DRM yet?

dB02

01-06-2005, 12:53 PM

Sounds like people have successfully loaded the .tivo into TMPG...

Shaun

01-06-2005, 03:16 PM

Did it really take you that long? My S1 DTivo took me a couple hours to do an HD upgrade and hack for extraction etc... My 2 SD-DVR80s took me about 3 hours total work that I had to be there for. Most of the time they took was doing the Clear and Delete Everything and one GSOD recovery. I didn't hang out and wait for all that, I started the process and did something else. Like any other hobby, it takes time. I did it so I could get HMO and extraction. My wife is thrilled with the results.

I read a lot of threads before starting the upgrade process (not part of the 3 1/2 days). Unfortunately, most of what I read was a waste of time since I opted to restore a 4.0.1b image to a new drive. The new drive + 4.0.1b worked as expected. My first hitch was killhdinitrd. I initially missed the part about it not working on the 1b kernel. More research got me on the 1a kernel process. I had some more trouble getting telnet and ftp working too. I swapped the drive back and forth so many times my fingers were bloody. Once I got the comms up everything else installed according to plan. Best of all, I got TyTools working.
Most of the information I needed is here on this board. My challenge though was finding it all since I didn't want to mess with the Sleeper iso or Monte. I was aiming to get the latest software and set-up process suitable for my HDVR2 while avoiding unnecessary or outdated stuff. Unfortunately, most of the info or guides for the newer stuff were abbreviated and referenced skills learned from older methods. I did like the Mods said though... I searched searched searched and read read read rather than post questions that had already been asked and answered. I also did the whole thing without a serial cable (didn't have the stuff to make one and didn't want to wait for mail order) so that may have made it a bit harder than necessary. Anyway, I kept notes and am confident I could re-do the process in a few hours should I ever need or want to.
Fortunately I did my modding over a weekend the wife was out of town since she would have been screamin at me to just put it back the way it was. However, now that it's done (for now) she really likes the HMO features and my ability to make dvd's from saved shows.

It would be nice to have it built in, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. TTG is interesting, but without DVD burning, it's useless to me. And I won't spend $70 on the burning app either. I have burning apps, I don't need another one. With TyTool, I can use what I have, for free, and have more flexability. For example, I can create my own DVD menus and use the Nero I allready have to burn with.

Besides, hacking is half the fun. But this is also a hobby to me, I do some of it just to see if I can. :D

I agree TTG sounds interesting but until someone cracks the .tivo file it's not going to help me. I'm good with following directions but don't have the knowledge to muck around in lines of raw code. Either way, I have no intention of buying SonicMyDVD. Beyond the DRM thing, I'm sure they will not allow folks to edit out commercials before archiving. I'll stick with TyTools and Nero. I've been trying out some of Alphawolf's methods with VideoReDo also.

And, yes, the hacking was as fun as it was frustrating, it just seemed like it took too long for what I was doing.

alldeadhomiez

01-06-2005, 03:47 PM

Sounds like people have successfully loaded the .tivo into TMPG...

A .tivo file appears to be a password-protected MPEG-2 program stream:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=215842

Also, 7.1 contains a nifty built-in web browser:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=215838

pirateday

01-06-2005, 04:29 PM

People have reported that TMPG will ask for the password that was entered into the desktop software on install. Then once it has that it can decode the encryption and put it to a standard MPEG2 file for burning/editing or even recoding to XviD and DivX.

Although I don't know of anyone that has tried this yet (recoding); I plan to as soon as the software updates on mine. The main reason I wanted to get a tivo was for extraction. I purchased one of the 2.5 models and this provides a way of getting exactly what I want without PROM socketing/flashing and loading my own kernel and worrying about moving hacks around or having them deleted.

If/when a software hack is developed, or I get bored with it in its current state and have it reflashed if needed, I may look into hacking it again for other features.

While I am in no way squeamish about opening the box and pulling drives and using Linux to interface with them, if I can remove the possibility of turning my tivo into a doorstop/having to restore a backup, I'll do it.

AlphaWolf

01-06-2005, 04:44 PM

A .tivo file appears to be a password-protected MPEG-2 program stream:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=215842

Also, 7.1 contains a nifty built-in web browser:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=215838

I wonder how feasible it would be to hack it to replace the functions of tivoweb (since tivoweb will essentially have to be rewritten for this version anyways.)

rcork

01-06-2005, 04:55 PM

Here's an interesting little snippet I got from Paul Thurrott's WinInfo Daily Newsletter.
In the unexpected announcement, Gates revealed that Microsoft is working with TiVo on its TiVoToGo service, which will let Windows users access TiVo-recorded TV shows on Windows-based PCs and notebook computers. "We want to make sure that Windows XP and Media Center users can easily access TiVo content and then copy it to Windows Mobile devices [including Pocket PCs, Smartphones, and Portable Media Centers]," a Microsoft representative told me. Here's how it works: The TiVoToGo desktop software will act as an intermediary between the TiVo device and your Windows PC. After you log on to verify your TiVo membership, you can freely move the content from WMP 10 to portable devices or other PCs. When I expressed surprise that Microsoft was partnering with a company that's essentially a competitor, the Microsoft representative said that the company is "building bridges with companies like TiVo. We're serious about Digital Entertainment Anywhere. Your digital media content should work no matter where you get it."

dB02

01-06-2005, 05:45 PM

Hmmm..
.tivo vs .ty ... Are the .tivo files, just .ty files encrypted with the MAK? anyone messeda around with this?

rcork

01-06-2005, 06:32 PM

If .tivo are just encrypted .ty, I wonder if the DirectShow filter that Tivo Desktop 2 installs would play .ty files as well. I will try to uninstall TyShow and see if the DirectShow filter can play .ty.

dB02

01-06-2005, 07:04 PM

did that work? i somehow doubt it

bcc

01-06-2005, 07:15 PM

A .tivo file appears to be a password-protected MPEG-2 program stream:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=215842
Then it seems like it would be pretty easy to write a program that strips the password protection, producing an unencumbered mpeg stream. No wonder DirecTV is not yet supporting TTG.

Montaño

01-06-2005, 07:25 PM

There is some discussion on weather TTG supports copying of HBO/Cinemax/Etc..
Some users say they can copy shows, some say they cannot.

dB02

01-06-2005, 07:28 PM

I would love software to strip this, let me reencode for my ARCHOS.. ooh that would be nice

jmemmott

01-06-2005, 07:52 PM

It is more than a password protected mpeg stream.

As far as I can tell, it is more likely that the .tivo file is the encrypted form of a .ty file (e.g. without turning off the Tivo media stream encryption on a Series 2). The installation of the Tivo Desktop adds a DirectShow Source filter that has an algorythm to decrypt it in the same way an unhacked Tivo would when it plays it back.

All of the programs that have been able "read" the .tivo files have used DirectShow which pulls in this Tivo supplied filter. The output from the Tivo filter appears to be a .ty like mpeg stream that has been cleaned up a bit.

The fact that one can use regular http to retrieve playable files also bears this out. It is likely (though not certain) that they are just tivo disk contents that are sent across using http gets.

I don't know if the filter would play a .ty file from a Tivo that has encryption turned off : is might try to decrypt it anyway and produce garbage.

AlphaWolf

01-07-2005, 06:42 PM

It is more than a password protected mpeg stream.

All current indications seem to disagree. What have you seen that shows otherwise?

BTW, anybody know what all you can do with the web interface that is now built into the 7.1 software?

This version sounds interesting, I might get it and load it to my directivo and see what I can do with it myself. Hopefully not much effort is required.

dB02

01-09-2005, 01:39 AM

Anyone working with the new software? Think theres a chance .tivos could be cracked and broken?

JJBliss

01-09-2005, 01:45 AM

Anyone working with the new software? Think theres a chance .tivos could be cracked and broken?
Cracked and broken? As in, like, to do what?

dB02

01-09-2005, 01:49 AM

Breaking the DRM... Guess that sentence didnt really mean anything. Lol, its late. But yeah, cracking the DRM so they can be used basically like .ty files.

cat5

01-09-2005, 09:00 PM

It is more than a password protected mpeg stream.

As far as I can tell, it is more likely that the .tivo file is the encrypted form of a .ty file (.

Hi the names cat5 (get the reference)
Two things you need to know . I know my stuff and I don't like to be pissed off. Other than that I get along pretty well.

I spent some time on the tivocommunity.forum, and some guys over there are having some luck with programs that support directshow filters.

Powerdirecter 3.0
Nero

To name a couple.

Has anyone looked at any of these.
Seems like once the .tivo (which looks a lot like a .ty) is opened by the filter any mpeg editor that supports directshow should be able to open it.

Interestingly someone said that powerdirector can open the file and play it. I don't have ttfg yet but when I get it I intend to experiment.

here's what we know so far:

Nero express can open the files but wants to reencode it.
Vlc can play the file, almost 100% sure you can use the save to buffer, or stream as upd mpeg-ts options.
Can't imagine why they recommend this program on the tivo website, hows your c++.
sonic will be able to open the file, Seems like every version of mydvd I've ever used wanted to transcode pefectly good bitrate mpegs. I don't hold to much hope for this .

Think I may be spending some time here... seems like a nice homey place, in a barbary coast kind of way.

jbebel

01-20-2005, 12:09 PM

Take a look at JavaHMO. It seems to support ToGo in 2.3 beta.

Joel

alldeadhomiez

01-20-2005, 12:21 PM

Take a look at JavaHMO. It seems to support ToGo in 2.3 beta.

Merged in from the "does TTG work with Linux?" thread.

I haven't looked at the JavaHMO betas, but I highly doubt that they have re-implemented the .tivo DRM removal in Java. (Even if they have, they'd be nuts to release it.)

Thus, Windows-free playback of .tivo files remains a pipe dream.

Fugg

01-21-2005, 12:40 PM

Well, it looks like the cats outta the bag, so to speak.

Someone posted last night on the other forum a way to feed a .tivo file thru the tivo directshow filter to a demux, then to a muxer, then on to a "file dump" filter using graphedit. It outputs a drm-less mpeg2 file in five minutes.

This morning, the thread was gone. But it seems it was too late, the news is out. (reminds me of nickhull's Extractstream post back in july '01)

I got a call from a friend this morning saying that it works for him, 10 minutes for a one hour best quality file. (I don't have a series 2 sa to check for myself)

At least with this one, we can just sit back and watch the fur fly. It's going to be an interesting show, to say the least!

:D

... as far as playing a .tivo file in linux,

Can you use a directshow filter in linux???
:confused:

alldeadhomiez

01-21-2005, 01:01 PM

... as far as playing a .tivo file in linux,

Can you use a directshow filter in linux???
:confused:

On x86 - sure, why not? "All" you need to do is find a way to load the PE binary, satisfy its dependencies, and feed the data through it. WINE should be able to supply some of the necessary functionality.

Edit: the page that got nuked from TCF is: http://www.evillabs.net/tivo/

ShapeGSX

01-21-2005, 04:12 PM

ecopoesis

01-21-2005, 04:26 PM

On 7.1 the MAK shows up under System Info form within TiVo. A more interesting question is, if TiVo's Directshow filter can decrypt with only knowing a MAK, is there a way we can decrypt a .tivo without using a MAK, thereby opening extraction to Linux and Mac people without them having to instaling anything on the TiVo.

alldeadhomiez

01-21-2005, 04:59 PM

Interesting that all shows recorded on SA Tivos prior to the 7.1 upgrade can also be downloaded and decrypted using the media access key. So, basically, every tivo that ever came with encryption (all series 2 boxes, right? - still learning before I hack) obviously has a key, and the key has been the same before and after 7.1. But now, Tivo is just handing them out to SA users.

That is just weird.

I wonder if there is any way to figure out what the media access key is for a given box (without going to Tivo's web site, of course ;) ).

When your box gets selected for the 7.1 upgrade, the keyserver starts handing out a few new keys when you make your daily calls. The numeric "MAK" that you enter is probably contained in one of these keys.

Most keys coming from the keyserver are tied to your crypto chip, encode activation and expiration dates, and cannot be produced without knowing a private key that we don't have.

As you can see, this is a convoluted scheme that wastes countless amounts of CPU cycles and engineering time. But, as "evillabs" has shown, the cryptography was not the weak link in the chain (and it rarely is).

narnia777

01-27-2005, 01:54 AM

rc3105

01-27-2005, 07:26 AM

<alice mode> must control fist of death... </alice mode>

not a bad idea. maybe that's why it was done a couple of years ago... (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21915&perpage=1) :rolleyes:

ecopoesis

01-27-2005, 09:19 AM

According to earlier posts on TCF the shows aren't encrypted on the Tivo HD they get encrypted on the fly while transfering using TtG. So if someone were to hack a ftpd server and download the files directly it would be .ty files as I understand it, I'm new to file extraction and this forum but learning more with every read.

This makes no sense. Why would they remove the encryption for shows on the TiVo? They didn't, because pre7.1 shows (known to be encrypted) can be extracted with TTG. There are really two things they could have done:

1) Unencrypt the files on the TiVo, and then reencrypt them with the TTG format on the way out.

2) Just send the files encrypted. TTG knows how to unencrypt the TiVo's encryption.

It's probably number 2, for the simple reason that TiVos aren't that fast, and the decryption/encryption process would slow them down too much. Plus, we already know that TiVo's encryption isn't tied to a specific system. HMO works, undoubtly using the MAK (which probably already existed, we just didn't know about it) and the same process as the DirectShow filter to decrypt.

alldeadhomiez

01-27-2005, 10:24 AM

It's probably number 2, for the simple reason that TiVos aren't that fast, and the decryption/encryption process would slow them down too much.

Your time is worth nothing to them.

That is why these boxes take 5-10 minutes to boot (including a lengthy memory check and a linuxrc scan designed to lock you, the owner, out).

That is why TTG transfers run at a fraction of the speed of transfers using hacker extraction tools. Or even MRV, for that matter.

TTG is slow and unwieldy, just the way the content owners wanted it to be.

ecopoesis

01-27-2005, 10:57 AM

Actually, MRV and TTG transfers run at exactly the same speed on my system, a little over 1 MB/sec, which is near the theoretical max for USB1, so as good as they can do until TiVo decides to put on USB2 drivers.

As for it being unwieldy, I'd say the opposite is true. The DRM makes no effort to lock you into a viewer or specfic codec chain like they could have. I can imagine in a short time we'll see a Windows .tivo decrypter that applies the DS filters for you, a nice and easy drag and drop app, no graphedit needed.

TiVo's just covering their asses, using as little DRM as they can get away with.

alldeadhomiez

01-27-2005, 11:09 AM

Actually, MRV and TTG transfers run at exactly the same speed on my system, a little over 1 MB/sec, which is near the theoretical max for USB1, so as good as they can do until TiVo decides to put on USB2 drivers.

Actually, 7.1 does include (and use) the USB 2.0 drivers. TiVo's backport is from 2.4.25.

Based on TTG speeds reported at TCF, it is significantly slower than (superpatched) MRV on my boxes.

As for it being unwieldy, I'd say the opposite is true. The DRM makes no effort to lock you into a viewer or specfic codec chain like they could have. I can imagine in a short time we'll see a Windows .tivo decrypter that applies the DS filters for you, a nice and easy drag and drop app, no graphedit needed.

And you think this behavior was intentional? I doubt it.

Obviously, TiVo had no interest in supporting or licensing an MPEG2 codec. This was the cheapest way to do it.

AlphaWolf

01-27-2005, 11:45 AM

According to earlier posts on TCF the shows aren't encrypted on the Tivo HD they get encrypted on the fly while transfering using TtG.

Don't believe TCF, half the time they are very wrong and they never even realize it. Directivos have been encrypting the tystreams on the hard disk since version 2.5, and standalones have been encrypting tystreams on the hard disk since version 4.0. This has not changed and 7.1 is definitely no exception and it has already been verified that the encryption in 7.1 is no different than encryption used in previous versions.

It is believed (although not verified yet) that for ttg exchanges it is decrypted from the hard disk and then re-encrypted into what you see in the .tivo files. The streams stored on the tivo hard disk themselves require an asic to be present which isn't available on the PC, hence the PC side needs the streams to be converted to a weaker encryption.