Comcast DVR - TiVo patent infringement?

[rung]

Just got the Comcast HDTV DVR installed. I am shocked over some of the things that they did that was an outright copy from the TiVo software. Here are some examples, I just started playing with it but these jump out at me:

Three speeds FF & RW. Triple green arrows and everything
Thirty second skip (only if you know the keycode to turn on - sound familar?)
When scheduling a season pass, er "series", you can pick from "First Run", "First Run & Repeats", and "All episodes"
Also when scheduling you can pick from "Keep until space is needed" or "Keep until I delete"

I do like it because I like TiVo, but I think Tivo should get some money for them copying the "looK and feel" of a Tivo.

Regards,
Rung

[alldeadhomiez]

Three speeds FF & RW. Triple green arrows and everything
Thirty second skip (only if you know the keycode to turn on - sound familar?)
When scheduling a season pass, er "series", you can pick from "First Run", "First Run & Repeats", and "All episodes"
Also when scheduling you can pick from "Keep until space is needed" or "Keep until I delete"

I do like it because I like TiVo, but I think Tivo should get some money for them copying the "looK and feel" of a Tivo.

These are pretty basic features, and they're all (presumably) implemented with original code. Don't you think the DVR marketplace (and thus, the consumer) is better served when all of the STB makers can compete on a level playing field?

If nobody is allowed to clone TiVo without permission, what incentive does TiVo have to continue improving their product?

[malfunct]

These are pretty basic features, and they're all (presumably) implemented with original code. Don't you think the DVR marketplace (and thus, the consumer) is better served when all of the STB makers can compete on a level playing field?

If nobody is allowed to clone TiVo without permission, what incentive does TiVo have to continue improving their product?

If any of these infringe on tivos patents it doesn't matter that they are original code. It seems like some of these may be covered by the trick play patents.

That said patents in the software world are a bizzare beast that more often stifles new developments rather than foster them. I would prefer that more DVR's had great interfaces so I could just always get a good one, especially when the network the record from is locked down and tivo may not connect to it.

[rung]

On a lighter note, most of us are familiar with the Apple v. Microsoft "look and feel" lawsuit, but have you seen this one: Many-Angled Ones v. Microsoft (http://www.cthulhu.org/look_and_feel_lawsuit.html) ? It would be tough for Gates to settle that one as I would expect his soul is already spoken for. :eek:

[AlphaWolf]

Frankly in this respect I would hope that either tivo goes bankrupt and somebody who is willing to license those patents gets ahold of them, or that tivos patents expire.

Tivo seems to have this policy that they wont allow anybody to license any of their technology unless they license all of their technology - to include adopting the full hardware architecture, UI, and everything.

Most of the patents that tivo owns were just obvious things, e.g. the season pass feature. It just happens that tivo patented it first, and now they are using it to hold back the entire DVR industry. It's no wonder you can't get a decent DVR without buying a tivo, its because tivo has a stranglehold on all of the features that make having a DVR usefull. But all the while since tivo is up shit creek financially they take all kinds of shortcuts in their designs so we have these slow machines with a UI that hasn't improved at all in 6 years, and to make matters worse they almost never any features that people actually want. This essentially makes it so that there is no truely good DVR, not unless you want to go myth or some other free DVR, but then you have to settle with lossy encoding and other benefits that you can't get with integrated DVRs. These facts are irritating the crap out of me, and I just want it to end.

[Roger Dylan]

shocked over some of the things that they did that was an outright copy from the TiVo software

All this was decided long ago. And more recently, notably in the Microsoft successful defense against Apple. "Only so many ways to skin a cat."

Columbus once raged against the commodity or genericized notion of his original accomplishment: "Certainly it's easy, once I've shown you how." We do not generously reward our pioneers (Columbus died poor and in disgrace, Meriwether Lewis, etc.), but frequently enrich those who follow them. That's our nature.

[rung]

All this was decided long ago. And more recently, notably in the Microsoft successful defense against Apple. "Only so many ways to skin a cat."

Columbus once raged against the commodity or genericized notion of his original accomplishment: "Certainly it's easy, once I've shown you how." We do not generously reward our pioneers (Columbus died poor and in disgrace, Meriwether Lewis, etc.), but frequently enrich those who follow them. That's our nature.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Our entire economic system and associated statutes is based on the principle that we reward risk-takers and innovators. When we don't protect those who invest from losing their rewards to copy-cats, then we risk investment all together. It is like those who want us to just "take" the medicines that are developed by the pharmaceutical companies because it would "help" people. Problem being, of course, there won't be any more drugs developed if the companies can't be assured that their investments will have upside. The argument "that was obvious" and "just because they were first" is no reason to invalidate or dismiss the innovation. If it was so obvious, how come no one else invested the millions that Tivo did at the time? Only now, in hind-sight, do we know that Americans will adopt the DVR concept. That wasn't a sure bet when the original investers in tivo plunked down their fortunes on a gamble.

Regards,
Rung