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View Full Version : Need an easy to follow tutorial. I will pay!



brandon.nichols
02-25-2005, 02:09 AM
I need a guide or a program made that will make hacking my tivo easy. I need to get my tivo networked, I am using a (usb100m) linksys wired usb (1.0) ethernet adapter. Also, I want all the cool hacks I read about such as tivo web and I want to be able to get my files off tivo using tytools or whatever the program is called. I would like to add support for a usb200m ethernet adapter so I can upgrade to usb 2.0. I really want to do this hack the right way, read and read and read and read..., but I don't have the time. Please help me. I can pay you some money via paypal, I don't have a lot but I think I can come up with 20 or 30 dollars, provided the tutorial works.

I would like to have as many hacks as I can and I would like to know how to use them.

By the way my tivo is a sd-dvr40 (hughes) I got if from directv

Thanks,
Brandon Nichols

Roger Dylan
02-25-2005, 05:36 AM
I need a guide or a program made that will make hacking my tivo easy. I need to get my tivo networked ... I want all the cool hacks I read about ... I want to be able to get my files off tivo ... upgrade to usb 2.0.

I really want to ... read and read and read and read ... but I don't have the time. I think I can come up with 20 or 30 dollars, provided the tutorial works.

I think the recent snobbery on this forum is humanity at its lowest, but there are times, reading stuff like this, I can almost empathize with the @ssh0les who run the place.

Nevertheless.

There is an existing guide that is really quite well done (thanks mostly to Riley, who only peripherally runs the place and is only very mildy infected with the occupational disease).

http://www.dellanave.com/projects/tivo/4xrid.html

It has errors and difficulties but a rudimentary review of Linux 101 minus will get you past them.

http://www.ctssn.com/linux/

There is a discussion thread of the guide on the Tivo Community Forum (the first decent discussion thread there in years) and a somewhat less good one here (where there are very frequently excellent threads). Both discussions are full of garbage, more so than the guide itself, but look for consensus and you'll find valuable guidance in implementing the guide.

With _only_ these sources, if you have the ability to do a one-evening cram and B a high school physics or chemistry exam, you can accomplish 85% of the grunt work of what you want, with about three hours of study (a neat USB2 implementation is covered not in the guide but in the TCF discussion). And lay an excellent foundation for accomplishing the other 15%, which is installing Riley's excellent mfs_ftp, and tivoweb plus, really trivial additions of effort to what you will already have accomplished.

I wish you well.

rfc
02-25-2005, 06:10 AM
I think the recent snobbery on this forum is humanity at its lowest, but there are times, reading stuff like this, I can almost empathize with the @ssh0les who run the place.



You've *got* to be kidding. Read this:

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41882

Roger Dylan
02-25-2005, 06:35 AM
You've *got* to be kidding. Read this:

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41882

I totally applaud and agree with the message you point to.

This forum has historically done a huge amount of good. It continues to be a place where helpful members provide wonderful support.

Vadim, before his apparent retirement (or the coup), was a revered figure in many circles for the operation he ran here. I may be overstating it in my enthusiasm, but DDB prior to the Bott debacle and the resulting collapse, may turn out to be a historical highlight of the Internet. And the forum continues of value with its knowledgable and helpful member base.

captain_video
02-25-2005, 08:27 AM
There is an existing guide that is really quite well done (thanks mostly to Riley, who only peripherally runs the place and is only very mildy infected with the occupational disease).

http://www.dellanave.com/projects/tivo/4xrid.html
I would never point a clueless newbie to a guide like that, especially since he obviously has no Tivo hacking background whatsoever. There are bugs in the guide that will get him lost and frustrated, at least more than he already appears to be, and the end result will be that he'll come whining back to us when he can't get his Tivo to work.

The bottom line is, if you can't put in the time to learn, then don't bother trying. If you want to have a hacked Tivo then make the time to learn. The hobby will become far more enjoyable and you won't have to depend on others to help fix it when it breaks. Without a little effort on your part you are surely headed for disaster and we'll all be here to say we told you so when that occurs.

alldeadhomiez
02-25-2005, 08:55 AM
I think the recent snobbery on this forum is humanity at its lowest, but there are times, reading stuff like this, I can almost empathize with the @ssh0les who run the place.

Uh...

Who the heck are YOU to criticize us?

I guarantee that you will not last long here with this approach.

Edit: moved to Sewer.

mcomer
02-25-2005, 10:02 AM
Uh...

Who the heck are YOU to criticize us?

I guarantee that you will not last long here with this approach.

Edit: moved to Sewer.

ADH,

I've been here for a few months. I keep a low profile for the most part, comment when I can help, but try to stay out of controversy. I'm a smart guy; I hacked both of my HDVR2's by doing the needed research on my own. I'm an IT consultant by profession, I hold a certification from the Linux Professional Institute, I hold 5 certifications from Sun and 6 from IBM. I only say this to give me some standing for what I say next:

YOU are a really smart guy too, and you do a lot of good around here (way more than me). You aren't one of the more acrimonious folks, and your contributions of code and information speak for themselves.

But "who are you to criticize us" ? Come on man, he has as much right to criticize as anyone. If the internet and discussion boards like this aren't about free speech then they aren't about anything at all. If he has no credibility then no one will listen and the problem will take care of itself. There's no need to threaten him ("I guarantee that you will not last long here with this approach."). A statement like that from someone with moderator power implies a threat, and you proved that by moving this thread to the sewer.

One other thing about myself - I am an auxiliary police officer for my county (Virginia allows for volunteer police officers as long as they are trained the same as regulars). As such, I wear a uniform, carry a badge and a gun. That puts me in a real position of authority and power. Just having a gun on your side can make you feel incredibly powerfull and potent. Now if I swagger around and lord that power over people they'll do nothing but resent me and they won't appreciate the job that I'm trying to do or the valuable contribution that I'm making, on my own time, for no pay at all (any of this sounding familiar?). Instead, if I am humble and mild, realizing that I am there to serve, then I gain the respect and trust of the people I encounter. I still have the power and would use it if necessary, but I don't intimidate or over-use it.

I think that if everyone would take it a little easier around here, then any reputation the board had for being acrimonious (right or wrong) would fade away and we'd all be much happier. YMMV.

Matt

captain_video
02-25-2005, 10:32 AM
This thread was destined for the sewer right from the start. If I had the access rights I'd have moved it there myself. This is a Tivo hacking forum where people come to learn and help others to learn as well. The original poster asked for the easy way out and offered money for someone to hack his Tivo for him. That's just being plain lazy and there's no room for it here. If you don't come here to learn then you shouldn't even be here. If he had put forth even a minute amount of effort to learn about hacking there would be numerous posts pointing him in the right direction. Instead, he initiated his membership with his very first post by announcing that he didn't want to take the time to learn and wanted to pay someone else for instant gratification.

Sad to say, but there's an entire market on ebay targeted at people like him and the developers are getting screwed as a result. I've been here for well over three years now and there has been a definite shift in the attitude of the mods and membership. Most of it has been due to the fact that unscrupulous individuals have taken the developers' hard work that has been offered to the rank and file at no charge and then selling it for a profit on ebay. There was also one individual, who will remain nameless, that managed to turn this forum on its ear and it has never recovered as a result. There have also been other factors at play that have affected the overall attitude of this forum but it has been an evolutionary process based on past events.

Having your intellectual property exploited that way can tend to make some people a little bitter, and justifiably so, IMHO. As a law enforcement officer I'm sure you realize that theft is theft and what the OP was asking for was not exactly within the guidelines of the software licenses outlined for the use and distribution of the hacks provided here. You are free to install and use any of the hacks yourself but distribution or sale is strictly prohibited. If the OP wants his Tivo hacked he should learn to do it himself.

While paying for someone else to install the hacks for you may not necessarily be considered a violation of the copyrights, the end result will most likely be that the OP will end up coming back here looking for support on his hacked Tivo when it breaks. This is a scenario that is seen here time and time again and is not tolerated one bit. If you didn't hack it then you'd better look to the installer for support or learn to fix it yourself.

alldeadhomiez
02-25-2005, 10:37 AM
But "who are you to criticize us" ? Come on man, he has as much right to criticize as anyone. If the internet and discussion boards like this aren't about free speech then they aren't about anything at all.

This is a private board devoted to hacking discussions, not a "free speech zone." The administrators have established several rules regarding permitted speech: no service theft discussions, no personal attacks, no criticism of moderators' decisions, respect coders' wishes with regard to their code, and so on.


There's no need to threaten him ("I guarantee that you will not last long here with this approach."). A statement like that from someone with moderator power implies a threat, and you proved that by moving this thread to the sewer.

He will not last long if he continues to use terms like "@ssh0les" to describe his contempt for the staff (or anybody else, for that matter). We have ZERO incentive to take abuse from a non-contributor.


One other thing about myself - I am an auxiliary police officer for my county (Virginia allows for volunteer police officers as long as they are trained the same as regulars). As such, I wear a uniform, carry a badge and a gun. That puts me in a real position of authority and power. Just having a gun on your side can make you feel incredibly powerfull and potent. Now if I swagger around and lord that power over people they'll do nothing but resent me and they won't appreciate the job that I'm trying to do or the valuable contribution that I'm making, on my own time, for no pay at all (any of this sounding familiar?). Instead, if I am humble and mild, realizing that I am there to serve, then I gain the respect and trust of the people I encounter. I still have the power and would use it if necessary, but I don't intimidate or over-use it.

I know a number of police officers, and none of them would take kindly to being called an "@ssh0le," "pig," etc. by a civilian.

Heck, even the first amendment doesn't protect "fighting words."

(Not that this is a particularly strong analogy; as a private site, DDB is not a democracy so the administrators really DO have absolute power. Police, OTOH, serve the public and cannot make their own rules.)


I think that if everyone would take it a little easier around here, then any reputation the board had for being acrimonious (right or wrong) would fade away and we'd all be much happier.

I'm more concerned with increasing the quality of discussion than any perceived "reputation" we have elsewhere.

mcomer
02-25-2005, 10:43 AM
captain_video,

I certainly understand your points, but:

1) I did not interpret his request as being willing to pay for hacking services, but as being willing to pay for a GUIDE. (Well, in looking back at it he does so "or a program" so it's possible to take it either way.) Offering to pay for a guide is an interesting thought - in a post I just read 5 minutes ago ADH seems to imply that if people were willing to pay for good guides then they might be produced. (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=212240&postcount=64)

2) I certainly understand being frustrated over being taken advantage of, but to take that out on others accomplishes nothing. I am aware of the history of which you speak. However, some of that is ancient history in internet terms, and we do have to get over it at some point. I write software for commercial purposes and would not appreciate if it were misused. But I'm not going to beat up all my clients over it; you can't treat everyone like a crook just because you were burned once (or more than once, to be fair).

Matt

The Only Druid
02-25-2005, 11:08 AM
captain_video,

I certainly understand your points, but:

1) I did not interpret his request as being willing to pay for hacking services, but as being willing to pay for a GUIDE. (Well, in looking back at it he does so "or a program" so it's possible to take it either way.) Offering to pay for a guide is an interesting thought - in a post I just read 5 minutes ago ADH seems to imply that if people were willing to pay for good guides then they might be produced. (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=212240&postcount=64)

2) I certainly understand being frustrated over being taken advantage of, but to take that out on others accomplishes nothing. I am aware of the history of which you speak. However, some of that is ancient history in internet terms, and we do have to get over it at some point. I write software for commercial purposes and would not appreciate if it were misused. But I'm not going to beat up all my clients over it; you can't treat everyone like a crook just because you were burned once (or more than once, to be fair).

Matt
I'm wary of posting, but here's my two cents: paying for a guide (which demands you use otherwise undistributable tools) seems to be to follow the letter of the EULA, but not the spirit.

alldeadhomiez
02-25-2005, 11:23 AM
Sad to say, but there's an entire market on ebay targeted at people like him and the developers are getting screwed as a result. I've been here for well over three years now and there has been a definite shift in the attitude of the mods and membership. Most of it has been due to the fact that unscrupulous individuals have taken the developers' hard work that has been offered to the rank and file at no charge and then selling it for a profit on ebay. There was also one individual, who will remain nameless, that managed to turn this forum on its ear and it has never recovered as a result. There have also been other factors at play that have affected the overall attitude of this forum but it has been an evolutionary process based on past events.

Well, this could be debated all day long, but there are quite a few factors at play here.

One important factor is that the community has needed to cope with (sometimes unwelcome) growth. When you've got one post per month asking what an IDE cable is, it might be tolerable. When you've got one post per DAY asking the same question, it's probably not. Even the regulars in the TCF "underground" seem to be getting annoyed with the repetitive, uninformed questions. The forum contains a large amount of information, most of which (perhaps unfortunately) new users will need to find on their own. At any rate, it is rude to ask the DDB regulars to be their personal search assistants.

Another factor is that the prerequisites have changed. As the number of available hacks has increased, so has the amount of Linux and TiVo knowledge needed to "get by." We do our best to point people to relevant discussions in the sticky threads, but if they do not read those threads (or lack the background they need to understand them), they will be lost. That's life.

Regarding the general atmosphere here - I maintain that "do a search" or "why didn't you read the stickies?" are completely acceptable replies, while "why didn't you search, retard?" is not. There is no need to be abusive (as a few members have been in the past). There is also no need to accommodate anybody who has no hope of ever understanding what they are doing. They can either put in the effort to learn it, or they can enjoy their stock unit.

JJBliss
02-25-2005, 11:26 AM
I think the recent snobbery on this forum is humanity at its lowest, but there are times, reading stuff like this, I can almost empathize with the @ssh0les who run the place.


<sigh>

I hate responding to this nonsense, but I will not allow you to continue unabated.

You are wearing on my patience. At the time of this response you have a total of 14 posts. 35% of all your posts contain some sort of slam against the contributing members of DDB (of which you are NOT) and more particularly, the management. I submit the following:

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=212217&postcount=2

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=210577&postcount=3

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=206166&postcount=10

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204251&postcount=770

You have already violated any three strike rule I might put into place. Therefore, I will warn you, once. Stop. We need you much less then you need us. I assure you.

Consider participating in this community by hacking your Tivo, and not by making snide remarks. It is unwelcome.

Please enjoy your time here. When you no longer enjoy it, you are free to leave.

rfc
02-25-2005, 12:51 PM
He can avoid all licensing issues and get his answers fast:

I'll be his guide for $30/hour. I'll do the searching here; I'll read the stickies; I'll hold his hand through out the entire process (and probably learn something myself). Paypal will work fine. :D

captain_video
02-25-2005, 01:46 PM
Well, this could be debated all day long, but there are quite a few factors at play here.
Absolutely true on all counts. I was just expressing an opinion based on the facts as I see them. YMMV


1) I did not interpret his request as being willing to pay for hacking services, but as being willing to pay for a GUIDE.
You are correct and I apologize for taking my rant off-topic as he did not request that someone else hack his Tivo for him as I had indicated but was indeed asking for a hand-holding guide (Heck, I was on a roll so I went with it. :rolleyes: ).

Juicy
03-01-2005, 10:45 PM
Dave Dellanave's guide worked perfect for me with my Hughes SD-DVR80. I don't see how there are loads of errors in it, the guide is step-by-step instructions that work if you follow it. I'd recommend it to anyone.

kelsky
03-01-2005, 11:54 PM
Brandon,

I have the same unit. I have spent the last month reading and testing some of the hacks here. I am pretty good, but I still need to spend more time reading. Hard to distingish between some of the postings that are geared for my box and which ones even make a difference. I finally purchased at PTVnet drive. It isn't the most popular option, but at least I have a box that is up an running. The 4.x guide that is referred to is really good. I was able to get a unit up and running with it. My only problem with it is my local channels are on another dish. So I had to go back to my previous version and that is when I found out that PTVupgrade had a hacked version of 3.1.1e ready to go. I can now concentrate on the hacks to do some of the other things. Take a look at it if you want a quick fix. But you will still need to do reading in this forum. Unfortunately, you just have to pay your dues if you want to run a hacked box. Good luck!

Roger Dylan
03-02-2005, 07:46 AM
Dave Dellanave's guide worked perfect for me with my Hughes SD-DVR80. I don't see how there are loads of errors in it, the guide is step-by-step instructions that work if you follow it. I'd recommend it to anyone.

The guide is very well done. It has been revised a number of times over the last several weeks and the currently posted version (2/22/05) is very close to foolproof.

However, there are differences in the tools individual users will bring to the guide, differences in the way certain steps will be interpreted and implemented, and then individuals may commit typos while following the guide. Potential difficulties from all of these pitfalls can be either avoided or sucessfully dealt with if the newcomer has put in a few hours of study prior to attempting to implement the guide.

I agree with the ... elders ... here to that extent. Step by step guides, if they're going to be implemented by recipe followers incapable of dealing with error messages or non-functionalities arising from mistakes or local variables not matching up exactly with what the guidemaker anticipated, are not good things.

The Only Druid
03-02-2005, 08:53 AM
I agree with the ... elders ... here to that extent. Step by step guides, if they're going to be implemented by recipe followers incapable of dealing with error messages or non-functionalities arising from mistakes or local variables not matching up exactly with what the guidemaker anticipated, are not good things.

I think the only thing that would be ideal (and this is something I've started, but not found the time to complete) would be a step-by-step guide that COMPLETELY explained each step, including what the tools are/where to get them, why they're used, why they're used in that way, etc.

That way, even a complete newbie reading the reference would be able to actually understand what they were doing.

The problem with such guides is that (a) eventually they get outdated and (b) eventually the authors get tired of maintaining them. Then, much like Sleeper's ISO, everyone else is stuck trying to explain the differences.

cojonesdetoro
03-02-2005, 12:35 PM
I've had people on this board PM me offering money to help them hack a tivo. I tell them that they need to contact someone who has no money and lots of time. My situation is the inverse of that and I would have to be paid a ridiculous amount of money to make it worth my aggravation.

The best bet is probably to go down to the local community college and find some smart kid who is broke but has lots of time on his hands.

Although, if the kid is that smart he's probably painting houses and already making a lot of money.

rc3105
03-02-2005, 07:24 PM
Although, if the kid is that smart he's probably painting houses and already making a lot of money.
or charging $75 a pop to de-louse windoze boxes...

there are a couple of tivo books out that're only $20~$30. that's cheap enough

<elitist mode>
if you can't follow the books well enough to config a tivo you probably shouldn't count on using all the cool tools, a "hacked" tivo really isn't a consumer grade device
</elitist mode>

AVD
03-03-2005, 10:25 PM
<elitist mode>
if you can't follow the books well enough to config a tivo you probably shouldn't count on using all the cool tools, a "hacked" tivo really isn't a consumer grade device
</elitist mode>


Thats not elitist at all.... rather it is the whole point of this discussion...


The whole fun of 'hacking' the TiVo is the hacking, not the finished product.

Juicy
03-03-2005, 11:33 PM
You can't protect people from committing typos, regardless of their skill level. Does that mean that all forums should be ignored? No, because that would be ridiculous, just as saying guides are bad because you don't know someone's knowledge level and they can make typos. Come on, let's all use some common sense.

Some people won't do the work and tinkering. Some people will read here and there, try some stuff, and either be successful or fail and give up. Others will read, try stuff over and over, get things working, and still tinker.
I think there's absolutely no wisdom in saying guides are bad/useless. If it becomes outdated, then it will either be ignored by people or some will still try to use it. A guide serves its purpose at some point in time, and hopefully will be maintained so it's always useful.

alldeadhomiez
03-04-2005, 12:17 AM
You can't protect people from committing typos, regardless of their skill level.

Educated readers know how to fix their own typos, take notes, and search for answers. Spoonfed readers, in general, do not.

If you've read this board for any length of time, you'll know that we have few, if any, incentives to pander to the latter category. In fact, it would be easier for everybody involved if they just paid a legitimate vendor (http://www.ptvupgrade.com) to do the work for them instead of wasting our resources.

Juicy
03-04-2005, 02:58 AM
I agree completely with you. I think the problem is the person who started this thread. Yes, he's lazy and doesn't belong here for that reason. Educated readers can fix their typos, of course ... if people are posting on here that they followed Guide ABC or instructions in thread X, it didn't work, then turn around and say it was a typo and it did work, well yeah, that's a different story.

I made some mistakes when I followed the 4.x RID guide, it took me a few tries to get things right because I didn't know what to expect at each step, but when I got it right, I realized the guide was fine and it was me making a few dumb mistakes. I did research before I even purchased my SD-DVR80 because I wanted to make sure it could be hacked. I researched before I hacked it, got some help on here. I learned a few things along the way about DirecTV, Tivos, and the hacking terminologies used around here. All of this, and I'm a GOOD software engineer who knows what he knows.

Point is that guides aren't bad, but lazy people are. Someone who doesn't know things and asks good questions isn't lazy; someone who asks questions and it's fairly obvious they didn't use the Search button are questionable. I searched and read for days and still had a list of questions that I wasn't sure of the answer.

Roger Dylan
03-04-2005, 06:25 AM
Educated readers know how to fix their own typos, take notes, and search for answers. Spoonfed readers, in general, do not.

If you've read this board for any length of time, you'll know that we have few, if any, incentives to pander to the latter category.

What you say is absolutely true on behalf of "we", i.e. those elders here who share your views. The owner of the forum, however, has made it clear in the past that his is a "big tent" intended to be populated by a wide variety of users. He seems very happy with the idea of a large, diverse group of people visiting his site, clicking here and there, pursuing various interests and at various levels of technical sophistication.

Vadim clearly very much values the small core of elders (who come and go over time). However, it's the volume of users that drive the success of his forum long term. This volume of users is in large part drawn by the patient, non-judgemental guidance provided by users a little further advanced on the learning curve who are willing to make things a little easier for newcomers than it was for them when they were learning. Many of these helpful people are elders with a more flexible and constructive view than others. Some of the helpful people are newcomers themselves who are just a page ahead.

This is how it has been for the last eight years or so. Those who find this environment frustrating should simply NOT waste their valuable time "pandering" as you put it. And perhaps they'd be happier in some smaller, more elite environment somewhere else.

alldeadhomiez
03-04-2005, 09:43 AM
What you say is absolutely true on behalf of "we", i.e. those elders here who share your views. The owner of the forum, however, has made it clear in the past that his is a "big tent" intended to be populated by a wide variety of users.

This does not contradict what I said.

Anybody is welcome in the "big tent," regardless of skill level, as long as they are willing to read and learn on their own to get up to speed.


However, it's the volume of users that drive the success of his forum long term.

Volume is irrelevant. Quality is more important than quantity. This was still true five months ago when you joined, young grasshopper.

If it is quantity that you want, you should be spending your time here (http://tivocommunity.com) instead.


This is how it has been for the last eight years or so.

What the heck are you talking about?


Those who find this environment frustrating should simply NOT waste their valuable time "pandering" as you put it.

Agreed. The uninformed questions will slow to a crawl when people stop answering them.

Fugg
03-04-2005, 10:01 AM
Those who find this environment frustrating should simply NOT waste their valuable time "pandering" as you put it. And perhaps they'd be happier in some smaller, more elite environment somewhere else.Bite your friggin' tounge!

In five years of playing with my tivos and being on the very periphery of the hacking/developer world, I have watched many of the “frustrated” coders fade off into "some smaller, more elite environment somewhere else", taking their talent and experience with them. This is a recurring scenario that I wish would end.

…but to see someone actually suggest that they go away…. damn.

That’s not cool. Not at all.

Roger Dylan
03-04-2005, 02:16 PM
I have watched many of the “frustrated” coders fade off into "some smaller, more elite environment somewhere else", taking their talent and experience with themdamn

For the most part they left the hobby altogether. Though they pop up every once in awhile (sometimes even here). They are missed. Badly missed.

The big difference is that, for the most part, these true pioneers didn't feel the need to run the forum. They did what they did best. Also, while overalll they tended to be helpful, it was expected that the less technically blessed would pitch in and handle the user support, at least at the elementary level. Thus there was somewhat less frustration.

The elders today, to be fair, are doing a terrific job under a killer workload here. For some reason they have felt they needed to reinvent the forum, administratively, along geek rather than communicative lines. Inmates running the asylum.

There have always been people on this forum who can express technical concepts reasonably well. These are the people who did much of the grunt work in bringing newbies along, while the real talent, the coders, stayed insulated to some extent. While there was always some contempt on the part of the techies for the "communicators" who were simply newbies one page ahead of the rest of the newbies, the discourse was generally civil (certainly exceptions, in fact the forum was basically destroyed by an exception). But overall, that model worked better.

I hope these talented coders don't leave. But it is painful to watch their continual frustration with the stupidity of humanity they seem to feel they are forced to deal with. I think it would be wonderful if a forum structure could be achieved that was more rewarding for them, allowing them to talk among themselves on a pure technical level and re-encouraging a "communicator" class of members who would pitch in and handle the bulk of the broad user interface.

alldeadhomiez
03-04-2005, 02:56 PM
Inmates running the asylum.

I, too, am growing weary of your snide remarks.

I encourage you to find another forum that is up to your "standards" - since obviously this one is not.

Any further criticism of moderator decisions or board policies on DDB will result in a ban. This is your final warning.

Fugg
03-04-2005, 04:37 PM
Your free to do whatever you want, but please don't invite those who contribute and help to leave and find a "more elite environment somewhere else."

Ok? Please?