PDA

View Full Version : iDVD workflow now with Tivotool



sstrell
07-19-2005, 12:09 AM
So I haven't been in the forum for quite a while, and now I learn about Tivotool, which is awesome. Now I want to figure out the iDVD workflow with it. Previously, this was my flow:

1) In Virtual PC, extract .ty from Tivo with Tytool.
2) Make the keyfile and edit with GOP Editor.
3) Multiplex the file (not make .VOB; I always get audio out of sync with that for some reason).
4) Convert to DV with MPEG Streamclip (I know, I know, takes forever, huge file, loss of quality).
5) Fine edit in iMovie.
6) Create and burn iDVD project.

There's got to be a better way now that Tivotool exists. I tried downloading as both MPEG2 and MPEG4 and I'm not really thrilled with the quality with either, unless I have settings wrong somewhere (for MPEG4, one pass, linear blend, and cropping 2 rows of pixels off the top). Anybody have something that works well for them instead of just generic DVDs that uses the iLife apps?

Thanks,
Steve

greenhornet
07-22-2005, 10:06 PM
Steve,
I installed vserver and don't even need to use a PC anymore. TiVoTool should pull video straight to your mac.

I'm have a lot of problems getting any of the formats to supply audio in Final Cut Pro though.

sstrell
07-22-2005, 10:56 PM
Thanks...that doesn't really answer my question, but thanks anyway.

Steve

greenhornet
07-22-2005, 11:59 PM
Well, for what it's worth i don't have good quality extracts either. My biggest problem seems to be choppy video. Powerbook G4, 1.33Ghz with 1.25 GB should be enough to handle the compression and burning. Even the pro apps (FCP, DVD SP) don't do well with the streams.

Abone9
07-23-2005, 01:25 PM
Well I have a couple of suggestions one of them involves the iLife suite and the other doesn't. As far as getting a poor quality video I don't have that problem. I am using a directivo so if you are using a SA tivo I can't verify the quality.

Method One

Workflow using iLife Suite

Note: This method requires re-encoding the video so there will be some loss in quality

1. extract mpeg2 with tivotool from the tivo.
2. Drop Extracted mpeg2 file into DropDV located here http://www.dropdv.com it will automatically convert the mpeg2 file and save as an iMovie Project (There is a demo but well worth the $19.99 for the full version)
3. Open up iMovie project and edit the video
4. Burn with iDVD

Method Two

Workflow using MPEGStreamclip

You can get MPEGStreamclip here http://www.alfanet.it/squared5/mpegstreamclip.html

This is taken from the Tivotool wiki located here http://www.tivotool.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EditingMPEG2


Here's how you do it:

Download MPEG2

Set your file format as MPEG2 in Tivotool, and download your show. Once finished, drag the .mpg file to MPEGStreamclip.
Edit

Let's say hypothetically you want to cut out a commercial block. Use the timeline to find the beginning, then hit "I" to "Select In" (their term not mine). Go to the end of the commercial block, and hit "O" to "Select Out". With your commercials now selected, hit Ctrl-X to cut them.
Save

This one is easy. File->Save As. You should have a new MPEG2 video sans commercials. There was no re-encoding and it should have went much faster than other means.

Burning

You probably want to burn the edited show at this point. Since DVDs also use MPEG2, visual quality will remain intact. I think there are tools out there that do a simple MPEG2->DVD conversion, but like MPEG2 editing it's not straightforward. Tivotool's burning code already does all of this though. So I will probably add a way to burn an external file or files to disc right inside Tivotool. This way with two programs open you can do all the downloading, editing, and burning you need.

Update: Roxio Toast will accept the MPEG2 videos, but I don't have a DVD drive so I can't test if it transcodes them before burning.

Please share your editing experiences!


Give these a shot and see what method you prefer and let us know what you think.

GotMooch
07-25-2005, 01:51 PM
I'm still running Panther - and am undecided on when (if) to upgrade to Tiger with my current machine. I have been unsuccessful in creating a DVD - here's my workflow below. This is from memory, so I apologize for the lack of details. I'm at work on my Windows :( machine as we speak...

1. Using TivoTool 0.2.1 (command line version) - I can upload the program to my Mac.
2. Using StreamClip - I can edit out the commercials and save an MPEG2 file. This file plays great in QuickTime.
3. Using StreamClip - I export to a separate MPEG video file and audio file. My understanding is this is a necessary step prior to authoring a DVD.
3. I use Sizzle to attempt to Author the DVD. In Sizzle, when I "add title" (specify the MPEG file) I get a warning message something like "this file was generated from a DVR, and therefore does not follow the DVD standard - there may be problems playing it on a DVD player...". I ignore the warning, specify that file, and go ahead and author the DVD anyway.
4. Using the Mac DVD Player, I attempt to play the Video_TS folder generated by Sizzle. The DVD menu comes up, but when I attempt to "Resume Movie" and play the video I get a DVD Player error message.

On first glance it appears that that Sizzle just doesn't like my MPEG file, and maybe I need to do something different there.

Can anyone offer help, or have another "tried and true" method for burning DVDs usign the command line version of TivoTool? Or am I going to have to bite the bullet, upgrade to Tiger, and use the GUI version of TivoTool?

Also seems to me that the instructions shown on the TivoTool Wiki are real specific, until it comes to the burning DVDs part, and then they are real vague...

Any help would be appreciated...

NoCalME
07-25-2005, 08:31 PM
Are you doing a "Demux to M2V and M1A..." after you have made all of your cuts in MPEGStreamclip? After doing so, you should have video and audio elemental streams that can be imported into Sizzle. I haven't used Sizzle in a long time(I use DVD Studio Pro), but the error message you received after importing the video file is typical. It sounds like your menu structure isn't set up properly. Reference this guide (http://www.videohelp.com/~tgpo/sizzle.html) to help you properly author a DVD in Sizzle.

sstrell
07-25-2005, 10:09 PM
Not to complain about where my thread is heading, but am I the only person who wants to use iLife to make DVDs from Tivo recordings? I've tried Sizzle and Sizzle is boring. I want to be able to use iDVD animated themes, menus and transitions. Using my workflow I posted above, I've made some great Enterprise DVDs, but they are a pain in the butt to make and the quality is not as good as I would have hoped. Plus I have to deal with Windows in Virtual PC. The idea of the post was that now that there is a Mac extraction tool, why can't there be a complete Mac workflow that uses the great Apple software that is available? Does nobody else want to do this?

Steve

stealthdave
07-25-2005, 10:29 PM
Not to complain about where my thread is heading, but am I the only person who wants to use iLife to make DVDs from Tivo recordings? I've tried Sizzle and Sizzle is boring. I want to be able to use iDVD animated themes, menus and transitions. Using my workflow I posted above, I've made some great Enterprise DVDs, but they are a pain in the butt to make and the quality is not as good as I would have hoped. Plus I have to deal with Windows in Virtual PC. The idea of the post was that now that there is a Mac extraction tool, why can't there be a complete Mac workflow that uses the great Apple software that is available? Does nobody else want to do this?

Steve
This is easier than you think, and the steps aren't much different from what you've seen here already:


use TiVoTool to download your program in MPEG2 format
use MPEG StreamClip (or Drop2DV, DVDxDV, or similar tools) to convert the stream to DV video
import stream into iMovie
make DVD in iDVD
Profit!!!


The advantage of the iLife tools is the ease of use in editing the program to what you want, and the many cool effects, etc., as you noted. The downside is that you are re-encoding the video twice: once to DV, and once again back to MPEG2. This can result in a picture that is not as good as the original TiVo'd source. It's up to you to decide if the quality trade-off is worth it.

If you don't like Sizzle but you still want to try and use the original TiVo streams, try MovieGate (http://www.macetvideo.com/moviegate110/moviegate110.html). The site is in french, but I believe that the software has english translations. (I'm not sure; I use DVD Studio Pro myself, but that's well out of most hobbyists price range.)

Happy editing!

Abone9
07-26-2005, 01:09 AM
Originally Posted by sstrell
Not to complain about where my thread is heading, but am I the only person who wants to use iLife to make DVDs from Tivo recordings? I've tried Sizzle and Sizzle is boring. I want to be able to use iDVD animated themes, menus and transitions. Using my workflow I posted above, I've made some great Enterprise DVDs, but they are a pain in the butt to make and the quality is not as good as I would have hoped. Plus I have to deal with Windows in Virtual PC. The idea of the post was that now that there is a Mac extraction tool, why can't there be a complete Mac workflow that uses the great Apple software that is available? Does nobody else want to do this?


I guess you didn't see my iLife workflow I posted a couple days ago.


Method One

Workflow using iLife Suite

Note: This method requires re-encoding the video so there will be some loss in quality

1. extract mpeg2 with tivotool from the tivo.
2. Drop Extracted mpeg2 file into DropDV located here http://www.dropdv.com it will automatically convert the mpeg2 file and save as an iMovie Project (There is a demo but well worth the $19.99 for the full version)
3. Open up iMovie project and edit the video
4. Burn with iDVD

I think the main reason many people don't want to use the iLife suite is because re-encoding of the video. iMovie doesn't edit Mpeg2 so you have to convert it to .mp4 or DV so that right there reduces the quality a bit. Then when you make a video in iDVD it encodes the video again. I agree that iDVD has some nice themes and can make a really good looking DVD but are you watching your DVD's for the menus or for the actual content?

Abone9
07-26-2005, 01:10 AM
Well I see that Stealthdave pretty much covered everything I just posted. :) Sorry about that!

sstrell
07-26-2005, 01:42 AM
Yes, I saw the post and I'm checking out DropDV. I appreciate the info. I was just hoping there'd be more people who might have other ways of doing it. As stated, the double re-encoding is the biggest annoyance for me because of the time and quality. And I know I'm not making DVDs for the menus, but if I'm going to spend the time to do all this and keep the DVDs for a long time, I might as well make them look good with the tools at my disposal.

Steve

GotMooch
07-26-2005, 01:37 PM
I am currently using Panther on a 17" 2003 model iMac, and have not yet decided to upgrade to Tiger. If there was a way to use the new iLife suite to make Tivo DVDs without re-encoding, I'd pony up the $129 in a heartbeat - even on my (now) underpowered iMac. Doing "fun" stuff like make DVDs is why I bought a Mac in the first place.

I also don't like Sizzle, and I am not crazy about doing everything on my Windows (work) laptop - although the Tytools stuff DOES produce very nice output.

Does anyone have a clue why Apple doesn't support MPEG source files for DVD creation? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

greenhornet
07-26-2005, 02:00 PM
I've heard that the new Final Cut Pro 5 will handle "muxed" Mpeg2 files natively for both audio AND video. i don't know for sure.

I would also like to use iMovie & iDVD because of the point and click simplicity but there are still several issues. In streamclip, converting a 1 hour show from Mpg2 to quicktime (.mov) results in a HUGE file. 10-20 GB. If you try to pull this in to iMovie it will usually choke because you need about 120% of that (read: another 25-30gb) for editing. At this point I am rapidly running out of space on my powerbook with a 100gb drive.

FCP will allow for the use of a scratch disk, so I can dump to an external firewire drive. This is still not a great process as two 1 hour shows converted to .mov and set to burn to a DVD would potentially take upwards of 50-75gb for all the project files, conversions, etc.

I have a direcTiVo series 1 and LOVE TiVoTool but just wish (like everyone else here) that we had a 'smaller' way to get the mpeg 2 clips in to iMovie.

mmmfishies
07-26-2005, 02:21 PM
After spending quite a bit of time trying to do efficient TiVo video editing with acceptable quality on the Mac, I've basically given up. I had two purposes for extracting video from my TiVo: save time and maintain the original video quality. Even with very high end tools like FCP and DSP, I find that everything that I do is susceptible to crashing right in the middle of the project. In short, some tools *appear* to work, but they really aren't "comfortable" with the strangeness of TiVo MPEGs. To tie this into the message above, FCP 5 will load muxed, TiVo-style MPEGs, but expect crashing and general editing flakiness.

There are some great free Mac-based tools like MPEGStreamClip that do seem to work, but it doesn't do frame-accurate editing, which is basically a showstopper for me. Then, it's difficult to find a DVD authoring app that will produce an attractive DVD from these non-standard MPEG files.

I have yet to find a better toolchain than TyTool for extraction, VideoReDo for editing and DVDLab for authoring. Unfortunately, there just don't seem to be analogs of the same quality (or price) for the Mac.

Abone9
07-26-2005, 02:29 PM
And I know I'm not making DVDs for the menus, but if I'm going to spend the time to do all this and keep the DVDs for a long time, I might as well make them look good with the tools at my disposal.
I understand. iDVD is a great app and other than being really slow it would be my preferred choice as well.

I know someone who takes all of his tivo rips and records them to DV tape using his DV camcorders line in.Then when he has time he imports it into iMovie to edit and burn in iDVD. Not my idea of a perfect process but he swears by it.

NoCalME
07-26-2005, 04:26 PM
If there was a way to use the new iLife suite to make Tivo DVDs without re-encoding, I'd pony up the $129 in a heartbeatWhy not pick up a copy of DVD Studio Pro 2.0($75 sealed on eBay) and continue to run Panther? MPEGStreamclip is the only other tool you need and you can make some nice looking DVDs without re-encoding.

Granted, DVD Studio Pro 2.0 is a couple of years old(latest version is 4.0), but it's a huge step up from Sizzle. I've been using DVD Studio Pro 2.0 on a G4 iMac for several years and it is by far the best DVD authoring software out there IMHO.

greenhornet
07-26-2005, 04:30 PM
NoCall,
Are you saying that DVD SP will handle the native MPEG2 from TivoTool? I had heard there are problems with that. Also, are you saying that after removing commercials in MPEGStreamclip you can just save and do not need to re-encode?

This would be great indeed if it works!

NoCalME
07-26-2005, 07:07 PM
NoCall,
Are you saying that DVD SP will handle the native MPEG2 from TivoTool?Yes, absolutely.

Also, are you saying that after removing commercials in MPEGStreamclip you can just save and do not need to re-encode?Yes^2. After TivoTool converts the .ty file to an .mpg, make your cuts to said .mpg file in MPEGStreamclip, then Demux to M2V and M1A... I use Gumby (http://gumby.misplacedmac.com/) to patch the header so it will import into DVDSP, then re-patch the header back to its original form once the .mpg file has been imported into DVDSP. Others have reported success using Demux to Headed M2V and M1A..., but I haven't tried that option.

All of the above is done wihout any re-encoding and without degradating the picture quality. I personally use Transmit to FTP the files from my TiVo because I get higher transfer speeds, then use vsplit to convert to a .mpg, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Here's a sample menu of a "Seinfeld" episode I created with DVD Studio Pro 2.0 using extracted video from my DirecTiVo. It has a motion background with the other 5 screens playing cuts from that particular episode.

Abone9
07-27-2005, 10:45 AM
Here's a sample menu of a "Seinfeld" episode I created with DVD Studio Pro 2.0 using extracted video from my DirecTiVo. It has a motion background with the other 5 screens playing cuts from that particular episode.
Nice! My wife gave me a copy of DVD Studio Pro 3.0 last May for my b-day along with a good book on how to use it but I haven't spent much time with it. Did you create that menu theme yourself? I lack in the creativity department so I am unable to do impressive stuff like that. Pardon my ignorance but are there pre-made themes available in DVD Studio Pro? I will have to definitely spend a little more time learning DVD Studio.

NoCalME
07-27-2005, 01:00 PM
Did you create that menu theme yourself? I lack in the creativity department so I am unable to do impressive stuff like that. Pardon my ignorance but are there pre-made themes available in DVD Studio Pro? I will have to definitely spend a little more time learning DVD Studio.The theme I used is one of the dozens that come with DVD Studio Pro. I monkeyed around for weeks trying to come up with a suitable theme on my own that fit my vision, but the perfectionist in me couldn't settle on a final design. You can also buy 3rd party themes that really add a professional touch.

GotMooch
07-27-2005, 11:17 PM
I'll keep my eyes open for a good deal on DVD SP...

Abone9
07-28-2005, 09:15 AM
Well it looks like your dreams have come true. I haven't tested it yet but here is a quote from the tivotool page.

What's New-
- List nearby devices in prefs using Bonjour. Note: As far as I know, only Tivos with software version 7.x support this.
- Can now output .m2v/.wav for iMovie compatibility
- VOB output for easy editing->burning
- A new dialog when starting a burn: you can select the burn order.
- Bandwidth meter should be 4 chars wide now
- Internal code cleanups for any developers checking out the source
- Some GUI tweaks.
I am ripping a few shows right now and will test it with iMovie later today to see how it looks.

Sorry to go off topic but I see pvrblog posted a story on tivotool. Things are looking good for the mac/tivo community (well those who have hacked tivo's) I just want to see where the tivo/DirecTV partnership is going. I am dreading the day DirecTV stops supporting the tivo I think the contract runs through 2007?

Anyways thanks again Johnsolo for creating such a cool app.

johnsolo
07-29-2005, 01:54 AM
Thanks

A few notes:

TivoTool will burn shows to a DVD in the order you want. You should weigh the annoyance of commercials (which can be FF'wd on the dvd player anyway) against the time it takes to edit them out. I'm assuming you all have already done this.

The satellite transmits Mpeg2 to your receiver. A DVD is burned in Mpeg2 format. If you convert the video in any way... well you don't want to convert the video! no no no no don't even think about re-encoding to anything. It's going back the Mpeg2 for the DVD! *

iMovie doesn't edit Mpeg2. It will import it to MPEG4, which is suitable for non-burning purposes. Importing to DV is a bad idea. DV is not what you want. Look at the size of your iMovie project sometime when you are editing a full length DV video. It can easily make a file 10 times it's original size.

I put in m2v/wav mode so you can import to iMovie easily (may need the mpeg2 component for this Im not sure). Make an Mpeg4 project, not a DV project before importing. You should be able to then edit to your hearts content and save an mp4. You could also disregard all of my warnings if you don't care about quality/time and send it to iDVD, thus adding 3 layers of compression artifacts to the image.

I just added the .vob mode. I'm not sure if this will be useful. Play around with it and let me know if there are more editing choices available with this format. I doubt it though, because a vob is basically an mpeg2 with some extra data.

Im dumbfounded that the best Mpeg2 editing solution for Mac (at least "hobbyists") is a program from some guy in Italy thats meant for some off-brand PVR. Did someone say even the pro tools had problems? The Mpeg2 that Tivotool puts out is standard enough to play on a dvd player directly (via TT's builtin burning).

Theres a lot to say on this topic, I'll say more later. For now, keep in mind these 4 measures:

Speed
Quality
Editing
DVD Burning

You basically, for now, have to settle for 2-3 of these 4 goals..




* If you aren't burning, you still only want to convert MPEG2->MPEG4 once.

greenhornet
07-30-2005, 09:15 PM
The m2v/wav option produces different length files. It's not easy at this point to sync up the audio and video in iMovie. Has anyone else noticed this? I've only tried it with 1hr shows but the result is the same for all of them.

tivo-hombre
05-25-2006, 03:15 AM
I was wondering if anyone has found a better way to go from Tivo to Mac in the couple of years since this topic was alive.
My process is:
* import with Tivotool as an MP4 (awsome app by the way)
* throw into iMovie and edit(which takes a while to import as .dv)
* transport to iDVD for burn(which I'm still figuring out how to use)

The alternate is to do it all with Tivotool.

The advantage of iMovie is I can get rid of comercials and fit more but the quality is slighly worse. I tried using Ty edior but it freezes up when importing every time.

Any Mac users got a better way to do it?

aliko
06-14-2006, 11:05 PM
After downloading with TivoTool as mpeg2 or any format, is there anyway to still use tivotool to burn the files?

I don't need to edit out commercial, but want to batch download recording from my tivo to my hard drives, then burn the to DVD slowly.

If not with TivoTool, what's the best way to burn them to DVD quick? I don't need title page, or anything else. I have a lot of soccer games, and just want to put each 2-3 hours game on one DVD.

Thanks,
...
ling