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acio
10-12-2005, 12:44 PM
There are so many threads that I was not sure exactly where to post this so I am posting here! I was so blown away at my final results after days of reading, searching, trying, testing, etc., that I really wanted to post this. I am probably lower level than newbie but have been fiddling around with video for a few years. I'm so fascinated with this site and thankful for all of the posts that have helped me accomplish what I was after, that I wanted to post this. Please accept my apologies if any of this information is posted elsewhere. I have searched and studied this site for 3-4 days now and havenít run across it but found enough info to accomplish it.

Note: This technique may and hopefully will work with other DVD authoring software other than TMPEnc DVD Author but I havenít had the time to experiment with that so I cannot confirm it.

Goal: To extract video files from Tivo and convert them to DVD as fast, easy, with as less quality loss as possible, and to be as DVD compliant as possible.

I currently use TMPGEnc DVD Author for editing the commercials, menus and what have you. Unfortunately this program is not free but like I stated above, this should work with any half way decent DVD authoring software as long as the program can be tricked into accepting the video file which is usually 480X480 resolution (NOT DVD Compliant) by changing the headers.

Tools: I use tytools9r18 to extract the videos from the Tivo system using the tystream option, then multiplex option after extraction (both on "File" drop down menu) to convert to mpeg, tried both double socket & single socket mode and both seem to work fine (I do this because I seemed to get a slight loss of quality if I multiplex straight from the Tivo but it could me my imagination so you may want to try both and see for yourself). I then use a free program called "DVDPatcher_v106.exe" to change the headers so that I can bring the mpeg file into TMPGEnc DVD Author (or your preferred DVD authoring\editing software) and edit. Changing only the first headers worked fine for me and only takes about 1 second!

Results: I was expecting to just burn this to CD or DVD as a Data disc (using Nero) and play it on my Norcent player which plays about every kind of popular video file format on the planet, but decided to try and burn a standard compliant DVD with the TMPGEncís burning software. I have read that the burning process couldnít be done using this technique but tried it anyway and "Presto!" It not only accepted it and burned it, but it played perfect! At least in my Sony 5 disc DVP-NC615 that is (nothing special).

The quality was fantastic.

I hope this helps someone out there as I have been helped much by you all :)

captain_video
10-12-2005, 01:27 PM
Your method, while workable, is actually somewhat archaic with respect to the processes used by most people these days. You could simply use TyTools to extract, edit, and author to DVD with menus and chapter stops without ever using another app. TyTools actually uses the same engine as DVD Author for creating DVDs and it's free.

A more popular approach is to extract using TyTools, mfs_ftp, or whatever extraction tool you desire, then multiplex it to an mpeg using TyTools or tymplex (part of TyStudio). Use VideoReDo for editing and then author to DVD using DVD-Lab. VideoReDo is much easier to use than TMPGEnc for editing and there is no patching of the headers required with DVD-Lab. I haven't heard of anyone patching a video header in quite some time with the current tools that are available, although I'm sure there are those that still do so.

Jeff D
10-13-2005, 01:02 AM
and just to back up what captian_video stated about patching...
I haven't seen any real cases where this does cause problems but it's possible the player could crash if it can't handle a header and data size mis-match. The player could crash or have unexpected results, but as was said most players that can handle generic MPEGs can handle the 480x480 sizing. It's the authoring apps that put the restriction because, as you stated... it's not the DVD spec'd sizing. And anyone creating DVDs for DVD use should be using that sizing. But MPEG is MPEG and most modern DVD players use decode engines that can handle this odd sizing.

I too don't know why you'd really want to go outside of tytools unless you had an issue with the FAE GOP encoding (and there are some issues discussed in the 400,000 tytools posts...) Or you want really fancy menus with background video and other things like that or DVD scripting...

But there are other tools like DVDLab with can handle the tytool mpeg files just fine too.

acio
10-13-2005, 12:53 PM
Yes, I did have crashes while trying to edit with tytools and also crashes big time with GOP editing. Lot's of info there guys, thanks.I have no problems extracting with tyserver and all of the other features work fine but did have issues with the editing part. Tystudio totally crashes whether trying to retrieve locally or from tivo. I didn't spend as much time researching as I could have to fix these problems but I did spend some time and already owned DVD authoring software so took that route.

I figured the discs could possibly have issues on some players doing it this way (probably older ones especially) but out of all of the other approaches this one went the smoothest and by far the fastest. Is DVD Author the same as TMPEnc DVD Author? If so I didnt know this. I also have never used Videoredo and am downloading the trial now. Thanks for that info also. I would much rather have more compliant DVD's but don't want to do all of the re-encoding and other long tedious tasks to get there. I am familiar with DVD Lab (very nice) but I really dont do much with menus and add-ins. I mainly just edit out commercials, language/scenes not fit for my kids, and demultiplex\multiplex for audio editing so I prefer TMPEnc for simplicity's sake. Dont really want to spend any more $$$ on software if I can avoid it unless it's a type of program I dont already own. Thanks for your output :)

benjatado
10-22-2005, 11:48 AM
Well - while I have not yet tried any of the Mpeg editing and DVD authoring tools metioned here, does this cut down the time of encoding to DVD?

I have been using the Nero DVD software to edit the Mpeg, make chapters, menus and burn to DVD... but this can take >8 hrs to encode and burn to DVD. (which is a frame by frame process @ <=2sec. a frame!)

Is this process metioned by Captain_Video any faster? Or does this process use the Mpeg2 without the pains of frame-by-frame re-encoding?

-benja

captain_video
10-22-2005, 10:32 PM
No re-encoding should ever be necessary with Tivo files unless you absolutely must have them fully DVD compliant. My method doesn't take all that long to do. Extraction of a 1-hour show from my DTivo takes about 5-7 minutes with the backported drivers. I then mux the program using TyTools which takes maybe another 5 minutes. Editing out commercials with VideoReDo takes a few more minutes followed by a remux when saving the file. From there I import the mpg file into DVD-Lab where it is split into elementary streams (about 3-5 minutes for each file). The authoring process varies, depending on how fancy you get with menus, intro video clips or audio, motion menus, chapter stops, etc. Compiling a full DVD (approx 4.5GB) takes about an hour and burning time varies depending on the speed of your burner and the media you're using.

The above times will vary depending on your processor speed and factors such as how full your disk is, among other things. I figure it takes me about two to 2-1/2 hours to complete the full process from extraction to a finished DVD. I generally do the extraction and/or muxing as well as the DVD compile process right before I go to bed or leave for work in the morning so I don't have to sit around and wait for the process to complete.

database
10-27-2005, 09:12 AM
I'm a video editor - hobby.
I have a very expensive video editing suite and hardware, so naturally, I'm not going to dump these fine tools for some half baked editing program from tivo.

Tried all the techniques to convert the tivo file to mpg - they all seemed slow and clumbsy, at least to me. Always having problems with synching the audio to the video.

Then 2 days ago I came across some info - may be old news here, but it seemed to fit this thread.
_________________________________________

A little program called "direct show dump". To make it work:) you will have to download and install the Microsoft .NET framework. Direct show dump will not install unless you have the .NET framework installed correctly first. [Easy install]. They have a link on their site for this.

Be sure to use Framework 1.0 or 1.1 Framework 2.0 beta will NOT allow direct show dump to be installed.

Once installed, open the program, select the *.tivo file, and it automatically starts the conversion. 30 min program takes about 5 min or so.

Once in mpg format, edit with any video editor of your choosing.

With my software I have the option of editing to file, dvd, vcd, vhs, plus a few others.

Hope this helps.

cheer
10-27-2005, 12:36 PM
No need to be obnoxious -- "half baked" indeed. We are, for the post part, uninterested in how much you've paid for anything.

I can tell you from my personal experience that using TyTool to convert from TY to MPG -- when properly configured -- has never, ever, EVER given me sync issues, and it's pretty fast given a decent amount of RAM.

Greubin
10-27-2005, 09:47 PM
I use -

CuteFTP to extract .ty files, run TyTools to multiplex, VideoReDO ( pro version which automatically cuts commercials, very quick / easy to use ) and DVDlab to author. You can download a trial version of VideoReDo from their site.

cheer
10-28-2005, 09:04 AM
I use -

CuteFTP to extract .ty files, run TyTools to multiplex, VideoReDO ( pro version which automatically cuts commercials, very quick / easy to use ) and DVDlab to author. You can download a trial version of VideoReDo from their site.
Other than the fact that I use TyTool to do the extraction as well, I do pretty much the same thing.

Michael M
10-31-2005, 10:21 PM
Its been a while since I've created DVD's from my tivo --

so basically I pulled shows off using SMARTftp --mux them with tytool
edit out commercials with videoRedo

So I am left with two ~43min tvshows -- the file size for each is about 770mg

Logically these should fit onto a 4.7g disk -- but when I go to burn using Sonic MYDVD -- it tells me I am over by 1gig???

So what am I missing here -- shouldn't I be able to burn 2 43min shows to one DVD?

Any help is appreciated!!!

eastwind
11-01-2005, 12:53 AM
Its been a while since I've created DVD's from my tivo --

so basically I pulled shows off using SMARTftp --mux them with tytool
edit out commercials with videoRedo

So I am left with two ~43min tvshows -- the file size for each is about 770mg

Logically these should fit onto a 4.7g disk -- but when I go to burn using Sonic MYDVD -- it tells me I am over by 1gig???

So what am I missing here -- shouldn't I be able to burn 2 43min shows to one DVD?

Any help is appreciated!!!
The obvious answer is that Sonic MyDVD doesn't think the files are DVD-compliant and wants to re-encode them.

The solution is to use the TyTool package to author the DVD (File..Create IFO Files/Dir) and burn the output using Data mode of RecordNow. And the upside is that you would be able to fit 5 episodes on a DVD.

ew

Michael M
11-01-2005, 03:32 PM
I am following the same process for extraction and editing


No re-encoding should ever be necessary with Tivo files unless you absolutely must have them fully DVD compliant. My method doesn't take all that long to do. E From there I import the mpg file into DVD-Lab where it is split into elementary streams (about 3-5 minutes for each file). The authoring process varies, depending on how fancy you get with menus, intro video clips or audio, motion menus, chapter stops, etc. Compiling a full DVD (approx 4.5GB) takes about an hour and burning time varies depending on the speed of your burner and the media you're using.
.

So I am curious in DVDLab when you compile -- are you:
Using Alternative (relaxed compliancy)?
Under project Properites are you using 480x480?

DVDLab stops in the middle of compiling for me when I use Main(Fast, DVD compliant)

Waruwaru
11-01-2005, 03:53 PM
DVDLab stops in the middle of compiling for me when I use Main(Fast, DVD compliant)

Me too, so that is why I use the alternative/relaxed engine.

Jeremy517
11-01-2005, 05:45 PM
So I am curious in DVDLab when you compile -- are you:
Using Alternative (relaxed compliancy)?
Under project Properites are you using 480x480?

DVDLab stops in the middle of compiling for me when I use Main(Fast, DVD compliant)

If you are using VideoReDo, you can specify it to change all GOPs to 18 frames (15 for PAL) or less, and then you can use the main compiler.

ronsch
11-01-2005, 06:35 PM
I stick to Tytools all the way. If my composition comes out a little big, I use dvd shrink to make it fit. My only issues come when vob-muxing the results of GOP FAE editing when I can regularly expect a hang of my PC. I haven't quite figured out the conditions that might lead to this but it seems the more edit cuts, the likelier a hang is.

cheer
11-01-2005, 06:53 PM
If you are using VideoReDo, you can specify it to change all GOPs to 18 frames (15 for PAL) or less, and then you can use the main compiler.
But effectively you're re-encoding any time you hit a longer GOP, right?

captain_video
11-01-2005, 09:58 PM
You should always use the alternate (relaxed) multiplexing option when working with tympegs.

tracev
11-12-2005, 02:10 PM
No re-encoding should ever be necessary with Tivo files unless you absolutely must have them fully DVD compliant. My method doesn't take all that long to do. Extraction of a 1-hour show from my DTivo takes about 5-7 minutes with the backported drivers. I then mux the program using TyTools which takes maybe another 5 minutes. Editing out commercials with VideoReDo takes a few more minutes followed by a remux when saving the file. From there I import the mpg file into DVD-Lab where it is split into elementary streams (about 3-5 minutes for each file). The authoring process varies, depending on how fancy you get with menus, intro video clips or audio, motion menus, chapter stops, etc. Compiling a full DVD (approx 4.5GB) takes about an hour and burning time varies depending on the speed of your burner and the media you're using.

The above times will vary depending on your processor speed and factors such as how full your disk is, among other things. I figure it takes me about two to 2-1/2 hours to complete the full process from extraction to a finished DVD. I generally do the extraction and/or muxing as well as the DVD compile process right before I go to bed or leave for work in the morning so I don't have to sit around and wait for the process to complete.

I get the error "Failed to get the first 10 initial chunks" whenever I attempt to Mux .ty files downloaded from my DTivo that was built with tools from ptvupgrade. Running 6.2. Using TyTools9r18.
Files download completely but I get this error whether I am muxing or attempting to make key files. Essentially any type of processing of the .ty file in TyTools causes the same error. Does this have anything to do with encryption? I have done nothing specific to disable encryption if it was not disabled in the ptvupgrade tools used to create the upgrade drive.

cheer
11-12-2005, 03:00 PM
I get the error "Failed to get the first 10 initial chunks" whenever I attempt to Mux .ty files downloaded from my DTivo that was built with tools from ptvupgrade. Running 6.2. Using TyTools9r18.
Files download completely but I get this error whether I am muxing or attempting to make key files. Essentially any type of processing of the .ty file in TyTools causes the same error. Does this have anything to do with encryption? I have done nothing specific to disable encryption if it was not disabled in the ptvupgrade tools used to create the upgrade drive.
Can't tell you what the ptv stuff does, but yeah that error generally means encryption is still on.

Search for the superpatch67 thread; that will set you up. Keep in mind that anything already recorded will still be scrambled; if you want to unscramble those, it's a bit more complicated. Look for the S2_Unscramble thread.

superleo
11-12-2005, 05:00 PM
I'm a video editor - hobby.
I have a very expensive video editing suite and hardware, so naturally, I'm not going to dump these fine tools for some half baked editing program from tivo.

Tried all the techniques to convert the tivo file to mpg - they all seemed slow and clumbsy, at least to me. Always having problems with synching the audio to the video.

Then 2 days ago I came across some info - may be old news here, but it seemed to fit this thread.
_________________________________________

A little program called "direct show dump". To make it work:) you will have to download and install the Microsoft .NET framework. Direct show dump will not install unless you have the .NET framework installed correctly first. [Easy install]. They have a link on their site for this.

Be sure to use Framework 1.0 or 1.1 Framework 2.0 beta will NOT allow direct show dump to be installed.

Once installed, open the program, select the *.tivo file, and it automatically starts the conversion. 30 min program takes about 5 min or so.

Once in mpg format, edit with any video editor of your choosing.

With my software I have the option of editing to file, dvd, vcd, vhs, plus a few others.

Hope this helps.


I can believe that a self-proclaimed pro-editor has this type of response and opinion of the software that we mere hobbiest use and "develope".

I know this is a little late of a response, but this type of "opinions" realy are uncalled for..., or well, yes its only someone's opinion.

I've been messing with video since the early days of "sony beta", and eddinting video even before then. I have used many of the proffesional tools, software and hardware, that as we all know are extreamly expensive and specialized , and in MY OPINION, any of the tools and softwre that are "half baked" practically do the same thing as the very expensive and very specialized software; yes the GI may be very simple and yes, you may required several tools to have a final result, but hey that is ingenuity at its best.

And yes you might be a pro and yes you may use and own all these expensive sotware and tools, but I still take my hat off for the developers and CREATORS of OUR simple "half baked" tools.

Just my $0.02

tracev
11-12-2005, 05:01 PM
You were correct. I had already applied the superpatch last night but had to create a new recording since the patch was applied and now the file is muxing as I type.
Now, to look into how to "decode" the old recordings.

cheer
11-13-2005, 12:20 AM
You were correct. I had already applied the superpatch last night but had to create a new recording since the patch was applied and now the file is muxing as I type.
Now, to look into how to "decode" the old recordings.
Couple of hints:

Check the stickies and read up on the concept of monte. Monte essentially allows you to "chain-load" a custom kernel that by itself wouldn't pass the Tivo's security check. You need to do that in order to run the unscramble kernels.
Once you understand how monte works, here's another tip: despite the fact that you are running 6.2, which uses linux kernel version 2.4.20, do not try to monte from a 3.1.5 tivo version kernel, a.k.a. a linux kernel version 2.4.20. The version of monte compiled for 2.4.20 is buggy. It's counter-intuitive, but what you want to do is monte from a 3.1.1c tivo version kernel, a.k.a. a linux kernel version 2.4.4, and chainload INTO the 3.1.5 (a.k.a. 2.4.20) custom unscramble kernel.

Installing monte is not trivial for a new tivo hacker, unless you have a serious linux background, but if you spend the time to read enough you'll find it isn't really difficult. Go to the files section and look for the uma6 thread; specifically, check out the init_framework for an example of monte'ing. You can also search on the "rc.sysinit.real" method for more tips.

Mork
11-13-2005, 09:49 AM
Ok - This looks interesting to me.

If I extract in ty mode, the file size is a certain size (for intance - 3,399,680 kb)
If I extract in mpg mode the file size is slightly different - 3,419,697 kb
If I do as suggested in this thread - extract the ty, then mux to mpeg, the filesize of the resultant mpg (from the ty file) is the same as the directly extracted mpg - 3,419,697 kb

Are these 2 resultant mpg's actually the same? Or do the different methods of extracting mean there are differences (in quality etc?)

cheer
11-13-2005, 11:55 AM
No they should be the same. If you extract in mpg mode TyTool (JD keep me honest) is basically just doing the mux on the fly. Should be no difference in quality. However, I've read of people having audio sync issues with the mpg direct extraction, so I always extract as ty and then mplex out of paranoia.

The TY file will definitely be a different size, since it's slightly different from a standard mpg file.

eastwind
11-15-2005, 10:20 AM
Ok - This looks interesting to me.

If I extract in ty mode, the file size is a certain size (for intance - 3,399,680 kb)
If I extract in mpg mode the file size is slightly different - 3,419,697 kb
If I do as suggested in this thread - extract the ty, then mux to mpeg, the filesize of the resultant mpg (from the ty file) is the same as the directly extracted mpg - 3,419,697 kb

Are these 2 resultant mpg's actually the same? Or do the different methods of extracting mean there are differences (in quality etc?)
In a cmd window on a WinXP box:
fc file1 file2
will tell you if they are exactly the same.

ew