Buyer Beware Of Upgrade Kits!

[rhmoore]

============================================
The following post was made before I clearly understood all
of the issues and parties involved. I am voluntarily retracting
the post and urge the reader to consider all facts before
reaching a hasty conclusion. --rhmoore
============================================


WOW! I have been majorly dissed by Lou Jacobs over at PTV Upgrade.

I ordered the 'B' Drive Upgrade Kit from Hinsdale's site two days ago. When I received the kit yesterday, it came with 9th Tee instructions. When I had issues getting the receiver to boot properly, I emailed 9th Tee Support informing them of my issue and asking for help. BTW, I paid $350 for this DIY kit.

Then a few hours later, I get an email from Lou Jacobs from PTV Upgrade (whom I had previously corresponded with via email, as I was getting frustrated trying to get my HR10-250 on the network), who has my original email to 9th Tee and tells me that 9th Tee is a reseller of theirs. So obviously, Hinsdale, 9th Tee and PTV Upgrade are all connected. I ask him if he can help me and if I can phone him and here's how he responded:

When I then ask Lou for help, here is his response:
=====================================
Earlier, you mentioned that you purchased a kit from Hinsdale. We have no record of you in our database, even of orders processed by 9thTee.
From everything you indicated earlier, you are trying to do the work yourself, and that is not necessary with one of our kits.

I am sorry, there is nothing more to discuss, especially not by phone.
We are all very busy performing liposuction on ourselves, but I promise, I will call you if I need any guidance during the process. ;-)
=== End of email

Now this was quite rude and insulting, I guess the liposuction remark was in there because I run LipoDissolve in St Louis. Extremely unprofessional and insulting.

But anyway, I forward the email of my receipts from PayPal showing that I was a legitimate customer who had a legitimate problem and that I needed help.

He refused to respond in any way. In fact, every email since I forwarded him the emails showing I was a legitimate customer has been ignored. Why?

THEN... I go over to PTV Upgrade and post a similar message to this one in their forums, hoping someone can help and to warn anyone about purchasing upgrades because of this behavior. I said nothing rude or offensive in any way.

BAM! They banned me, delete my post and refuse to return any of my emails.

I am at the end of my rope. I didn't reazlie there was so much unprofessionalism in this industry. All I know now is that I'm out the money for the upgrade kit and it DOES NOT WORK as advertised!

[PTVupgrade]

You left out these emails. Does the term "stroke" mean anything to you? Good luck with your DIY project.

---------------------

Man, you have to be one of the stupidest people around. To treat a customer in such a shoddy fashion is just beyond belief.

Just an FYI, I finally got the upgrade kit to work. I had to rebless the Tivo and the additional hours finally showed up in the information screen, no thanks to you.

But you are an *****! I would have likely sent you my receiver for a PTVNET Upgrade and the 40 employees I have here, have been following my progress because many of them at least wanted upgrades for their NON HD DirecTV Receivers and TIVO Receivers, and you just blew it by acting juvenile and unprofessional.

I will make sure and highly recommend that NO ONE I know uses you, 9th tee or Hinsdale for upgrade kits, because you have no idea how to treat a customer much less a human being.


I won... YOU LOSE! Thanks for nothing.

I'm also going to post your home phone number over at dealdatabase and encourage others to call you and let you know how they feel about your shoddy and shabby ass treatment.

I know a good business bankruptcy attorney, I'm sure you'll be needing one soon.

Robert Moore
President
<Personal Info Deleted>
Email: <email address deleted>/email]

--------------

Ok, I give up. I had already ordered the Hinsdale upgrade for the HR10-250, Drive B upgrade so I could have more hours. I haven't installed it yet or even opened the package. Tell me what I need to do in order to do this gold install and how long it will take to ship back and forth.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sales Support [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:39 AM
To: Robert H Moore
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

You can purchase a kit for DIY installation, however there is no way to preserve your recordings without a GOLD install.

Sounds like you are probably on the right track.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email]sales@ptvupgrade.com [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:11 AM
To: Lou Jacob
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

Well, now I have the kill'd kernel copied over, the rc.sysinit.author file installed and apparently running. I have now figured out that I probably have the wrong linksys USB200M adapater, as it is ver 2, not ver 1 and I am not having any luck getting network connectivity. Again, I would be very interested in purchasing the ptvnet upgrade kit, I just want to be able to do so without having to send in my receiver. If you can't provide any further recommendations, I will try a bit longer before I give up.



-----Original Message-----
From: Sales Support [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:06 AM
To: Robert H Moore
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

Robert -

Unfortunately, it just doesn't work like that :-( Its sort of like saying, "I just want a gourmet meal, but I want to prepare it myself."
(assuming you are not a chef, of course).

We CAN do this for you - you'd need a PTVnet kit with a GOLD installation and then you can send us your unit or just its 'system drive' and we'll take care of the rest for you.

If you are running your own business, I'm sure you understand the value of time - it is sounding like you have burned enough of it yourself and are now realizing that the skills are probably better outsourced?

Thx

PS I don't mean to be crass, but this stuff is not trivial and unless its your area of expertise (or a hobby that you are devoted to) it DOES take a lot of time and energy to keep up on the technology and the techniques.

Thx

-----Original Message-----
From: sales@ptvupgrade.com [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:59 AM
To: Lou Jacob
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

The following was generated by PTVupgrade Contact Us.

Subject: Sales Question

Message:
I have purchased several ISO's from you so far. I have read the forums for hours, and I would rather just pay for a kit than to suffer all this brain damage. I had successfully copied my data to a new 250gb hard drive, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how to killhdinitrd on this drive, since it is running 3.1.5e.

I want to Network my HR10-250. I want the cool hacks. I want my current recordings and settings but I DON'T want to send off my receiver to have this done.

I am fairly proficient, but also very busy running my own business, so I can do the job, if I don't have to spend countless hours reading the forums and tracking down the right answer after trying all the wrong ones the first 10 times.

So... I would very much like to buy the PTVNet product for my receiver.
BUT, I want to install it myself while preserving all of my original recordings and settings. Do you offer a step by step guide how to install while preserving my original recordings and settings?

--
PTVupgrade Contact Us

[SpoonsJTD]

Join the customers-treated-like-crap club. Lou can afford to treat people like crap because AFAICT, PTVUpgrade is the only place you can legitimately buy images. It smells of monopoly but unfortunately, PTVUpgrade is such a tiny fish in the Tivo ocean, there's not much to do, and anything done would probably end up hurting Tivo since they are the one creating the monopolistic environment. Maybe if enough people complained to Tivo about Lou's behavior (PTVUpgrade customers are Tivo customers, too), Tivo might do something. Doubtful, but who knows.

Tivo Customer Support (http://www.tivo.com/5.9.4.asp)

Comparing the performance of liposuction to the application of one of their DIY kits, that's a good one. Does your company sell DIY liposuction kits? Liability aside, I'm sure if you did, you'd make darn sure that the people doing-it-themselves had your full support without sarcasm or belligerence. :)

[captain_video]

The way I see it from the above posts, both sides are in the wrong.

PTVUpgrade - You decided to get into the business of selling upgrade kits to brain-dead individuals that don't have the time or inclination to hack a Tivo so you should have developed a thick skin to handle e-mails like the one you received from rhmoore. Posting his name, e-mail address and phone numbers is not only uncool but I believe it's also a violation of forum rules. You of all people should know that this is something you just don't do.

OTOH, it does appear that you were courteous and helpful initially but quickly ran out of patience. If you plan on staying in business then you need to learn how to deal with the public. This is exactly the reason why I won't hack hard drives for others even though I've been asked to do it countless times via PMs and e-mails. I just don't want to deal with the whining. You're supposed to be a professional so straighten up and deal with it.

Lou - You obviously thought that buying an upgrade kit would save you a lot of time and aggravation instead of learning how to upgrade a drive on your own. I find it ironic that you're the one calling someone else stupid in this situation seing as how you've advertised to the entire hacking community just how inept you are at hacking a Tivo. Upgrade kits don't require any hacking skills to install and can be done by anyone that knows how to use a screwdriver. Don't expect to be finding any sympathy around these here parts.

OTOH, you purchased a product from a supposedly reputable company and should expect a certain level of support. However, bashing the vendor isn't exactly the best approach if you expect to continue receiving decent support. You need to take a step back and understand what you're doing before pushing the blame off onto someone else.

Now both of you stop acting like children and give each other a big hug!:)

[PTVupgrade]

CV -

Thoughts appreciated. Couple of things to note - he didn't purchase that kit from us, nor was his issue related to installing it - he was doing an operation on his TiVo system drive and in full DIY mode. All he was doing was trying to extract information from us, not obtain support.

As for 'brain dead' individuals; I do have pretty thick skin and we have been dealing with bratty folks like this for over five years. This situation is a little different because the guy started calling my home phone number, repeatedly for almost an hour yesterday morning, so it did get somewhat personal (my wife was not happy with what was going on)

He also made open threats and attempted to disrupt the business in an illegal manner.

I'll go back and edit out the names and phone numbers; I just did a copy and paste in my haste...

In any case, it is really interesting what can happen when things get taken out of context, which is exactly what is happening here.

[edit] And by the way, those who want support, even for unsupported products, can and should use our own forums available at

http://forum.ptvupgrade.com

rather than turn DealDatabase into a soapbox for complaints.

[rhmoore]

To say I was not trying to obtain support, is a complete and total falacy. I was trying to obtain support for an upgrade drive that I purchased (or so I thought from 9th Tee, as that was the instructions I was sent with the drive). Turns out I bought the upgrade from Hinsdale, they included the 9th Tee instructions because apparently it is their bracket, which I guess they resell for PTV. Whew! I've seen less spaghetti in badly structured programming code.

Call me brain dead and a brat all you want, but I know a few things about running a legitimate, customer friendly business. I'm sure my balance sheet would prove that.

But all that aside, I was fine until this Lou started insulting me through email. He insinuated that I was trying to "steal" support for a product and then made a rude reference to my Lipo Dissolve business in St Louis as I posted above. Even after his insulting comments, I forwarded my email receipts to him thinking to myself, surely he will see that I am a legitimate customer and I'm not trying to get anything for free.

This is typical of small timers who think they know how to run a business and deal with customers. Perhaps it was all a big misunderstanding, but from my perspective, I bought an upgrade kit, it wasn't working as advertised (probably through my own fault I admit) but instead of asking how he could help me, Lou responds with an allegation that I am only attemtping to "steal" support by alleging that I am trying to obtain free support on a product that I never bought as he couldn't find me in the database then adding if he ever needed help doing his own liposuction he would call me. That was just uncalled for and was clearly not egged on by me in anyway.

The whole thing is stupid. I posted my problem in his forums over at PTV Upgrade and he deletes the message, deletes my user account and then bans my entire IP address range. HA! That really showed me Lou. Keep up the good customer service work.

For the rest of you, I would strongly recommend that you don't do business with him or PTV because of this behavior. Even if I'm in the wrong, it was purely accidental on my part as Lou ended up with a copy of my email sent to the support team at 9th Tee. What else was I supposed to think? I thought they were all connected. Forgive me for not being omniscient or The Amazing Kreskin.

For the record, I did finally get everything to work (except for the networking part, which I was going to have done through PTV once I got the additional drive installed) but Lou and his antics have put an end to that possibility, and I look forward to working with any OTHER vendor out there who might have the time and inclination to win some business from a very willing and capable paying customer.

BTW, this comment from Lou above "He also made open threats and attempted to disrupt the business in an illegal manner. " is completely false as well. Aside from emailing him that I was going to post his phone number in an open forum (which I did not do, unlike Lou) I never made a single threat. And trying to reach him by phone yesterday, was my attempt to resolve the issue before it came to meltdown. All he had to do was pick up the phone and talk to me. He chose his own route.

Again Lou, Thanks for Nothing! You really showed me...

[rhmoore]

BTW, Since Lou decided to leave out most of the email thread where he became rude and insutling, I decided to include it here for your enjoyment. He never once responded to the following email, nor any of the follow on emails, that included my receipt:

=====================================================
From me to Lou:
=====================================================

HELLO? One more time. Can you help me?

Is this your product that I bought that is NOT working in my HR10-250?

Is Hinsdale a reseller for you?

I have emailed the (wregnery@sbcglobal.net) address as well. But I am really confused as to why my upgrade kit would be ordered from Hinsdale, come with printed out instructions from 9th Tee, and then when I email 9th Tee for help you reply with sarcastic and insulting email.

By 10am this morning, all of these Paypal charges will be reversed unless I hear something different.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sales Support [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:06 PM
To: Robert H Moore
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

Earlier, you mentioned that you purchased a kit from Hinsdale. We have no record of you in our database, even of orders processed by 9thTee.
From everything you indicated earlier, you are trying to do the work yourself, and that is not necessary with one of our kits.

I am sorry, there is nothing more to discuss, especially not by phone.
We are all very busy performing liposuction on ourselves, but I promise, I will call you if I need any guidance during the process. ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: sales@ptvupgrade.com [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:33 PM
To: Lou Jacob
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

As I explained before, I had already purchased the upgrade kit which was delivered today. Can we talk by phone please, I really need some help here with this expensive kit I purchased from 9th tee who was apparently reselling for you.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sales Support [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:23 PM
To: Robert H Moore
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

Robert -

I think we are going around in circles here...

Did we not have this discussion this afternoon? I thought you were going to purchase a kit, and have us do the work for you. (please see below).




-----Original Message-----
From: sales@ptvupgrade.com [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:04 PM
To: Lou Jacob
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

So can you help me?

-----Original Message-----
From: Sales Support [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 7:49 PM
To: Robert H Moore
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

Robert ---

9thTee is a reseller of our products; please understand that they do not provide technical support for the DIY folks; and all support for PTVupgrade products comes directly from us.

Thx

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

From: Robert H Moore [mailto:robert@lipodissolve.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Purchase of HR10-250 250gb upgrade



Hi,

I recently purchased and received the 250gb upgrade kit for the HR10-250 DirecTivo. I was already experiencing problems with my receiver which Directv determined to be a hard drive problem. But, I wanted to save my recordings, so I used some of the tools available on the net to make a dd copy of my original disk, which booted fine in the old receiver while they shipped me a new receiver.



I then received the new receiver from Directv and replaced the new hard in it, with the new Hitachi 250gb hard drive that I had copied all of my recordings too and which had previously booted fine in the old receiver.
After installing the upgrade kit, I expected to be able to boot from this replacement hard drive with the additional Maxtor 250gb hard drive 'B' installed. When I did, I received a SEVERE ERROR alert.



I am now recopying my original hard drive which came from the old receiver onto the Hitachi once again, expecting that something was corrupted during boot up. How should I boot into the new receiver with the copied hard drive, and should I leave the 'B' drive dis-attached until I have the new receiver up and running with the new hard drive?



Please help!!!



Robert Moore

President

Advanced Lipo Dissolve Centers




-----Original Message-----
From: sales@ptvupgrade.com [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:54 PM
To: Lou Jacob
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

Ok, I give up. I had already ordered the Hinsdale upgrade for the HR10-250, Drive B upgrade so I could have more hours. I haven't installed it yet or even opened the package. Tell me what I need to do in order to do this gold install and how long it will take to ship back and forth.

Robert Moore
President
Advanced Lipo Dissolve Centers


-----Original Message-----
From: Sales Support [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:39 AM
To: Robert H Moore
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

You can purchase a kit for DIY installation, however there is no way to preserve your recordings without a GOLD install.

Sounds like you are probably on the right track.

-----Original Message-----
From: sales@ptvupgrade.com [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:11 AM
To: Lou Jacob
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

Well, now I have the kill'd kernel copied over, the rc.sysinit.author file installed and apparently running. I have now figured out that I probably have the wrong linksys USB200M adapater, as it is ver 2, not ver 1 and I am not having any luck getting network connectivity. Again, I would be very interested in purchasing the ptvnet upgrade kit, I just want to be able to do so without having to send in my receiver. If you can't provide any further recommendations, I will try a bit longer before I give up.


Robert Moore
President
Advanced Lipo Dissolve Centers


-----Original Message-----
From: Sales Support [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:06 AM
To: Robert H Moore
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

Robert -

Unfortunately, it just doesn't work like that :-( Its sort of like saying, "I just want a gourmet meal, but I want to prepare it myself."
(assuming you are not a chef, of course).

We CAN do this for you - you'd need a PTVnet kit with a GOLD installation and then you can send us your unit or just its 'system drive' and we'll take care of the rest for you.

If you are running your own business, I'm sure you understand the value of time - it is sounding like you have burned enough of it yourself and are now realizing that the skills are probably better outsourced?

Thx

PS I don't mean to be crass, but this stuff is not trivial and unless its your area of expertise (or a hobby that you are devoted to) it DOES take a lot of time and energy to keep up on the technology and the techniques.

Thx

-----Original Message-----
From: sales@ptvupgrade.com [mailto:sales@ptvupgrade.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:59 AM
To: Lou Jacob
Subject: [sls #IKU-51362-789]: User Contact Request : Sales Question

The following was generated by PTVupgrade Contact Us.

Subject: Sales Question
Name: Robert Moore
Email: robert@lipodissolve.com


Message:
I have purchased several ISO's from you so far. I have read the forums for hours, and I would rather just pay for a kit than to suffer all this brain damage. I had successfully copied my data to a new 250gb hard drive, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how to killhdinitrd on this drive, since it is running 3.1.5e.

I want to Network my HR10-250. I want the cool hacks. I want my current recordings and settings but I DON'T want to send off my receiver to have this done.

I am fairly proficient, but also very busy running my own business, so I can do the job, if I don't have to spend countless hours reading the forums and tracking down the right answer after trying all the wrong ones the first 10 times.

So... I would very much like to buy the PTVNet product for my receiver.
BUT, I want to install it myself while preserving all of my original recordings and settings. Do you offer a step by step guide how to install while preserving my original recordings and settings?

--
PTVupgrade Contact Us

[PTVupgrade]

Hinsdale is our competitor. You purchased your kit from him. You asked for support from us. We explained that we do not provide that type of support. You continued to ask questions and asked to speak on the phone. I told you that we do not do that and made a remark (did you happen do see the winking smiley?) that you might have related to and it clearly went over your head.

Let me ask you this: do non-paying customers call you and ask for advice on how to perform procedures, which you sell, on themselves? Would you walk them through it rather than remind them that it is your business? Would you continue to help them even if you had paying customers at your door?

Had this particular person actually purchased a kit from us, one that had the functionality that he was looking to obtain, it simply would have worked upon installation. I think it is ironic that we are being held accountable in any way for his inability to get a competitors product, one that was not intended for that functionality, to work in that way. If this were appropriate, it would be just as appropriate to ask for assistance performing my own self-liposuction, as my analogy implied.

I am done with this thread as I am very busy and in spite of your attempts to bankrupt my business, we have paying customers who are more worthy of our time and support.

My final words, and as the topic subject "Buyer Beware of Upgrade Kits" says, do be careful about what you purchase, and who you purchase it from, and what the level of support associated with that particular product is.

If you are on a DIY project, you should not expect any support other than what is provided on our free forums. If you purchase from Vendor A, do not expect Vendor B to support it, especially if they are competitors.

I am sure that there are those will will disagree with my tone and our policies and practices. I respect that folks may disagree and have their own opinions. Obviously we want the business of as many customers as possible, but realistically some folks will never be happy no matter how hard you try to manage and meet expectations; that is life. I can only hope that those who disagree make that determination prior to becoming our customers - we don't have anything to hide, and we try to set the expectations appropriately.

Have a great weekend.

Lou

[rhmoore]

Here's where you're missing the boat Lou! I thought it WAS your product. In the email thread we exchanged, you state and I quote: "9thTee is a reseller of our products; please understand that they do not provide technical support for the DIY folks; and all support for PTVupgrade products comes directly from us." Once again, I emailed 9th Tee for support, because that was what was printed all over the instructions I received with the upgrade kit.

So I'm reading this thinking... hmmm. I guess I have to email him (you) and ask for support. Then you respond with the sarcasm and insults.

All you had to do was explain very simply, especially after I sent you the email receipt, that Hinsdale (a competitor) sold me the product and I only got the bracket from you (indirectly through 9th Tee). That's it, case closed, I would have contacted Hinsdale at that point and you would probably have another customer for a PTV Net Upgrade.

Had you told me that Hinsdale was a competitor up front, this would never have happened. I thought from your email and the fact that you responded with my original email in thread from my support message to 9th Tee, that in fact you (PTV) were the ultimate support party for the upgrade package I purchased.

I even emailed you up front and told you that I had purchased the upgrade kit from Hinsdale, but NEVER ONCE did you until this forum post, tell me in any way that Hinsdale was your competitor and was NOT re-selling your products and that I should look to Hinsdale for support (WHICH BY THE WAY... not only did I get support, but the guy emailed me his phone number and we spoke over the telephone) Lou... did you catch that, I actually spoke with someone by phone and they didn't burst into flames as a result.

In fact Bill over at Hinsdale, knew I had done something wrong. He told me what I did wrong, but instead of being rude and condescending, he was compassionate and understanding, and despite my ignorance on this particular subject, helped me understand what I needed to do to fix my problem.

Some of us have areas of expertise, others don't. I'm sure I could blow away many of you when it comes to assembly language programming and relational database design. I actually helped define the architecture for the Pick Operating System. Very old stuff.. we won't go there... nuff said.

But my point is, ignorance is not a crime. What is a crime in my opinion, is to allow others to squander in ignorance, when by virtue of a little human kindness, some of it could be eliminated. As my dad used to say, kindness costs nothing and it's priceless to someone in need.

Take care...

[captain_video]

Let's see if I got this straight.

Lou buys an upgrade kit from Hinsdale and screws up the install.

Lou has no clue who he bought the kit from so he makes an assumption that it must have been PTVUpgrade and intitates the barrage of e-mails, phone calls, and personal attacks because PTVUgrade refuses to support a product he didn't sell.

PTVUpgrade neglects to emphasize the fact that Lou did not purchase the drive from him or at least make it perfectly clear that he was barking up the wrong tree, essentially inviting a prolonged flame war between them.

Lou is ignoring the fact that PTVUpgrade did not sell him the kit and continues to bitch but somewhere along the line realizes that he called the wrong person for support and eventually gets things worked out with Hinsdale.

I have to admit I'm not a big fan of aftermarket upgrade vendors, mainly because I believe they grossly overcharge for what they sell, but that's just my opinion. This is a free country and anyone's entitled to make a buck if there's a market for their products and no copyrights are being infringed upon. PTVUpgrade does offer several products that I find useful and have purchased from them so I do find uses for some of their products.

That being said, I've got to stand behind PTVUpgrade on this one. Lou needs to get his s**t together and know who he buys his toys from. If I were in PTVUpgrade's shoes I'd have told Lou to go piss up a rope. All things considered, I think he showed more than enough restraint in dealing with the situation but enough is clearly enough. I'm not quite sure that banning Lou from the PTVUpgrade support forums was necessary, unless Lou was getting belligerent in his posts and violating forum protocols. If that was the case then showing him the door was the appropriate action.

Lou, you dumped your gripe in an open public forum so you invited this kind of response. How in the heck do you spend hundreds of dollars on an item and not know who you bought it from? I'm guessing you must have received some sort of invoice either with the upgrade kit or via e-mail to indicate that the drive kit came from Hinsdale. Dumping all over PTVUpgrade was completely unnecessary and irresponsible. I'd hate to see what the bookkeeping looks like for your business if this is how you pay attention to detail.

I plan on showing this thread to my wife. Maybe then she'll stop thinking about getting liposuction.:D

[SpoonsJTD]

Just a point of clarification, cap'n, Lou IS PTVUpgrade.

[rhmoore]

First of all, the name is not Lou, it's Robert. Secondly, I pointed out clearly in my posts above exactly how I came to the conclusion that PTV Upgrade was the responsible support party for this upgrade package. You didn't read that post, or you so grossly glossed over it, you entirely missed the point.

So in keeping with your idea of getting one's s**t together, you might consider taking your own advice and read exactly what's happened before making such ridiculous allegations.

I clearly spelled out how I came to this conclusion. But just so you can understand, let's go over it one more time. And I'll do it in step by step fashion so maye you will understand.

1. I ordered an upgrade kit from Hinsdale
2. I received the kit with 4 pages of instructions with 9th Tee's name all over it, not Hinsdales
3. I emailed my issue to the support email at 9th Tee since this was the only support email I received with my upgrade kit
4. I then received an email from LOU JACOB at PTV Upgrade (with my support email to 9th tee in thread) who quoted the following line: "9thTee is a reseller of our products; please understand that they do not provide technical support for the DIY folks; and all support for PTVupgrade products comes directly from us."
5. I then replied to LOU's email asking for help, which is when this all started.

If in your expert opinion, I erred, please excuse me. I believe you erred by not reading the post properly in the first place.

p.s. Lipo Dissolve is not liposuction, another misperception on your part that a more thorough reading would have certainly revealed to anyone that looks before they leap.

[captain_video]

Oooops, you're right. Sorry about the naming confusion. The posts got so longwinded on all sides that the names got lost in the mix. My bad. I'm also sorry about sticking my nose where it apparently didn't belong.

I did miss the info about the errant referral for support from PTVUpgrade. I also apologize for the derrogotory remarks about anyone's character, but jumping to conclusions seemed to be the modus operandi for this thread. This whole mess appears to be a simple matter of miscommunication and misdirection that took on a life of it's own and got blown out of proportion. The liposuction crack was derived from the replies posted by Lou. Again, my apologies for the error on my part.

I think I'd send a note to Mark McCorkle at 9th Tee to make sure he forwards his support recommendations to the correct source. I've dealt with Mark numerous times and he seems to be a straight shooter and a pleasure to deal with. I'd also be complaining to Hinsdale for not providing the correct support info with the kit since they supplied the incorrect support documentation.

The bottom line is that this whole mess doesn't appear to be the fault of either involved party. The only thing I see anyone being guilty of is miscommunication and lack of patience (and not getting all the facts before inserting foot in mouth).:o

Peace.

[JJBliss]

Lipo Dissolve is not liposuction, another misperception on your part that a more thorough reading would have certainly revealed to anyone that looks before they leap.

Lipo Dissolve is a non-invasive alternative to liposuction and at a fraction of the cost. All their doctors are board certified and certified in the Lipo Dissolve procedure. The drug used in Lipo Dissolve is FDA approved and also a natural occuring enzyme used to contol lipid levels and for brain function. They are the first company in the U.S. to provide only Lipo Dissolve to patients and will be opening 10 centers over the next 24 months. Advanced Lipo Dissolve Center is a medical company that administers injections with a FDA approved drug that dissolves unwanted fat. They are the non-invasive alternative to lipo suction.

[rhmoore]

Even though I am happy with the upgrade kit I purchased NOW, I think you're right. Hinsdale should NOT be sending out their upgrade kits with 9th Tee instructions.

Honestly, I thought I was emailing the right party. It seemed reasonable to assume that when Lou responded to my email, with my support email in thread, that they were indeed the responsible party for supporting the upgrade kit. I am not the type of person to extract "free" support from someone.

I honestly was on the virge of sending my receiver off to LOU for the PTV Net Upgrade and told him so a couple of times in my email. I wanted all of the ftp and telent features, but I'm just so busy, it's difficult to find the time and commitment to making this happen by myself.

I believed that I could do it, but when I finally got into it, it just proved to be too much for me right now. And that's where I screwed up. I tried to copy over my original recordings to a new hard drive and install in a new receiver with a B Upgrade Kit. And I just hosed the hard drive. Fortunately, I had a backup and was able to restore and complete the process with Bill's help over at Hinsdale. Still didn't get to keep my original recordings but I now have 70 hours of HD on my HR10-250. At least I managed to make that happen.

Look, I'm gonna try and put an end to this... hopefully.

Lou, sorry for blowing up. I really thought you were dissing me. If I had clearly understood that you did not indirectly sell me the kit, I would not have bothered you. I'm just not cut from that kinda cloth. I've made my living and my bones, in the technology biz. If anyone understands stupid users, I do. And I don't knowingly or intentionally ever try to get anything for free when there are paid options to choose from. I believed at the time that I was your paying customer. I hope you at least understand now how I came to that conclusion.

Take Care...

[rhmoore]

JJBliss: Come on now... You just copied and pasted that :)

[JJBliss]

JJBliss: Come on now... You just copied and pasted that :)
Google is my friend

[RavenStL]

Google is my friend

Search for "LipoDissolve in St Louis" and.......

This thread is hit #8 (10-29-05 01:46 pm CST) on GOOGLE :p

Hey, look on the bright side. I just paid $2.29 for gas today and feel good about it :eek: