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schak
03-29-2006, 04:23 AM
The procedures below are the steps I took to sucessfully convert a hdtv ty stream to dvd, playable on both stand alone players and pc-dvd.

My objective was to be able to extract 1080i hdtv shows off my HR10-250 DVR and put them on a DVD-R for later viewing. Specifically to get the best quality on my 65" rear projection HDTV and get DD5.1 to the stereo receiver.

I won't go into too much detail on how to use the software or where to get them, just do a web search to get more info. The whole process is a bit lenghty but it's what I have sucess with. Hope someone find this post helpful.


On to the procedures:
1. Transfer video from DVR to PC using TyTool10r4.
Search this forum for more info

2. Convert TY file to VOB using TyTool10r4
Options->Preference->Audio->"select Fill AC3 Audio Holes" .. needed for DD5.1 audio.
File->Vob-Muxed File(s)->"select .ty file"->Process

3. Fix VOB file with VideoReDo Plus ver 2.1.2.417
Tools->QuickStream Fix->"select input steam .vob"->"save output stream to new vob file"

4. Edit and convert to TS format using VideoRedo Plus
File->Open Video->"open the "fixed" vob file"->"edit video as needed"->Save As->Transport Stream(*.ts).

5. Convert TS file to DVD using HDTV2DVD 0.4

6. Burn DVD-R using Nero 6.6.0.14

Enjoy

captain_video
03-29-2006, 09:20 AM
What exactly is it that needs fixing in step 3? I haven't worked much with HD streams but the Quickstream fix is generally used to correct timecodes that get out of whack due to editing with another program IIRC and also for fixing audio synch problems.

Do you experience any skipping or stuttering with your final DVDs? I've heard this to be an issue with some processes being used when converting HDTivo videos to SD video.. Yours is almost too simple to be true, but worth giving it a shot.

Goob The Noob
03-29-2006, 10:32 AM
I use a very similiar process except I multiplex the ty file to mpg, edit in VideoRedo to remove stuff on the beginning and end, save to TS, HDTV2DVD, burn

schak
03-29-2006, 03:20 PM
Captain_Video,

Some of the videos I created does have some slight lip sync at a few points of the video, but it seems to get re-synced some how. The videos are not perfect by any means, almost there though.
I do recall in VideoReDo in the QuickStream Fix process it reports the number of frame it tries to sync etc. Depending on the quality of the DVR recording, the number of frames VideoReDo tries to sync will differ. A couple of times I re-recorded the same show broadcast on a different day, ran it through QuickStream Fix and it was clean, no frame syncing like before.

I am still in the exploring stage of this journey and I am sure there many improvements that can be done, part of the reason for my post is to solicite improvements. If you or anyone else have a chance to try this procedure, please report what you find maybe we can fine tune the HDTV to DVD process.

captain_video
03-29-2006, 04:07 PM
There's one feature in VideoReDo that I'm now using with all of my edited tympegs. You can set it up so that it sets all of the GOP headers at a fixed interval of your choosing. I set it at 18 which is more in keeping with standard mpeg2 specs. It takes more time to mux the file since it has to rebuild a lot of GOP headers but so far the results have been good. I'm wondering if this wouldn't be advisable when muxing HDTivo ty mpegs as well. Ty mpeg GOP headers can vary a little as a few frames or as much as 100 or more.

I would also recommend using TyTools to mux the ty file to an mpeg instead of a VOB and then edit it with VideoReDo. From there you should be able to save the output stream as a transport stream when you save the edited file, although I have not yet tried this approach. I always use VideoReDo for my editing chores and save as mpegs. I don't recall ever having any audio synch issues with VideoReDo. I then import the mpeg files into DVD-Lab for authoring to DVD.

wbelhaven
03-29-2006, 08:38 PM
Hi Schak, very interesting process, and thanks for posting. Have you tried your method with all four "flavors" of HD? -- {720p,1080i} x {film,video}? Of the, admittely, limited set of apps I've tried, the only one I've found so far that truly does the right thing with 1080i video (e.g., a "live" sporting event) is mencoder with the right options. Everything else tries to deinterlace it and make it look like 24fps "film", completely ruining the fluidity of motion in the process.

WB

schak
03-29-2006, 10:36 PM
I have not made any DVD from 720p source, my DVR/TV combo won't work somehow in 720p. My DVR output is always set to 1080i.

I'm not sure what you are refering to by {film,video}, but I've converted various shows of OTA HD channels (i.e. LOST, Smallville) and shows of ShowTime HD they all seems to play on my PS dvd player fine. They look just like the original HD quality that was broadcasted, on a 65" rear projection HDTV that is saying alot, 'cause you will start to notice pixelation in a hurry with that size of TV.

I haven't done much studying on HDTV2DVD, but I think the key/magic is in that great utility. It keeps the quality converting from TS->DVD.

Hope that helps

wbelhaven
03-29-2006, 11:02 PM
Hi shcak. Even if your HR10-250 is set to output 1080i to your display, it's still storing the content the way it received it, which, depending on the channel/program, is either 1080i or 720p for HD programming. When you TyTool it over to your computer, it will be in the same format (1080i or 720p) that your Tivo recorded it.

As for my terminology, I just meant the cross-product of the two parenthesized terms. How's that for obtuse Linear Algebra speak!? ;). In English, now, there are four cases:

720p "film"
720p "video"
1080i "film"
1080i "video"

By "film" I mean stuff like Smallville, Lost, or actual "movies" that have an original Frame rate of ~24 unique Frames per second. By "video" I mean stuff that has 60 unique Frames per second (720p video) or 60 unique fields per second (1080i video). Almost all live sporting events fall into the latter category (i.e., 720p or 1080i "video"). Case #4 is the one I was referring to in my previous post as the troublesome case. Could you try your process on a small segment of a live sporting event on NBC? I think they're exclusively 1080i, but I could be mistaken. Hope this is clear.

WB

schak
03-29-2006, 11:48 PM
I have a conversion of the college football title game between USC and Texas that was broadcasted on ABC-HD on a DVD. It plays fine; does that help?

Can you give my process a try, if you can, I'd love to hear if anyone else is having sucess also. I hope it's not hardware specific i.e. dvd player brand, DVR firmware version, etc..

captain_video
03-30-2006, 09:12 AM
I just tried it last night on a HDTivo file I had extracted previously. I used VideoReDo to output the file as a transport stream and then imported it into HDTV2DVD and fired it up right before I went to bed. I don't know how long it took to process the file but I had a set of AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders, complete with .IFO, .BUP, and .VOB files waiting for me when I checked it his morning. I burned it to a DVD-RW and tried it in my Marantz DVD player.

The image quality was as good as any commercial DVD I've seen, at least from a rudimentary check. The only caveat is that a one-hour episode of 24 that started out at around 3.5GB didn't shrink in size all that much. I'd hate to have to use up a single DVD for every one-hour show I wanted to archive. I will probably use DVD-Rebuilder to shrink it down so I can fit at least two episodes per disk. OTOH, I didn't edit out any commercials from the episode so I should be able to reduce it by at least one-third when I perform the edits.

I didn't notice any audio synch issues but I didn't have a lot of time to check it thoroughly before I had to leave for work. I'll definitely be giving this process a closer look. BTW, the recording was made from an OTA local HDTV broadcast in 1280 X 720 resolution.

schak
03-30-2006, 01:00 PM
I have used DVD Shrink to put 3 edited episodes of Smallvile on a DVD and the didn't noticed any quality loss. Three edited episodes equates to about 120+ min. I've tried to fit 4 episodes on a DVD one time I noticed a little bit of quality loss then.

cheer
03-30-2006, 02:00 PM
One of the reasons I've avoided using one of the semi-automated tools is due to the issue that wbelhaven brings up: how to handle different sources. (If I conver stuff that everyone knows, kindly ignore.)

Film sources (as mentioned) originate at 24 frames/sec. However, traditional (non-HD) NTSC broadcasts at about 60 fields/sec, which is roughly equivalent to 30 frames/sec (but not the same thing). So when something that was filmed (e.g. The Sopranos) is shown on non-HD NTSC TV, two things happen: (1) the frame rate has to be brought up from 24 to ~30, and (2) the video has to be interlaced so we end up with ~60 fields/sec. This is done using 3:2 pulldown.

Say you have four film frames: A B C D. Now for standard NTSC, those frames are moving at 24 frames/s. We need to get them to ~30 frames/sec...or, really, ~60 fields/sec. So in the time that we get four film frames, we want 10 NTSC fields. Remember that each field is half the video information (odd or even lines), so for the purposes of this discussion only, think of 1 frame = 2 fields. So the field pattern (where "o" = odd and "e" = even) might be: AoAeBoBeBoCeCoDeDoDe. Thus, 10 fields. Notice that we have an extra B and D field...that's how we pad out to 10. Think of this process as an "artificial" interlacing...in other words, the source was not interlaced; interlacing was added as part of the pulldown process to stretch film rates out to match NTSC.

Now you definitely do not want to just deinterlace this. Why? Because what you want is the original sequence: A B C D. But what a typical deinterlace process will give you is: A B B/C C/D D (where B/C and C/D are hybrids). Ick. Instead, ideally we'd decomb, which (A) restores the original film frames and (B) wipes the dupes. It's not perfect -- especially if your source changes midway through (and yes, this happens). Donald Graft's decomb package for avisynth works well.

On the other hand, if your source is pure interlaced video (i.e. shot with NTSC videocams), you don't want to touch it at all. Trying to deinterlace pure interlaced sources will just cause you to lose half of the temporal information, which is not what you want, believe me.

Anyway...I'm going to try a few different avisynth scripts on various types of HD streams to see how things look on DVD. Will post results.

cheer
03-30-2006, 02:06 PM
There's one feature in VideoReDo that I'm now using with all of my edited tympegs. You can set it up so that it sets all of the GOP headers at a fixed interval of your choosing. I set it at 18 which is more in keeping with standard mpeg2 specs. It takes more time to mux the file since it has to rebuild a lot of GOP headers but so far the results have been good.
But effectively then aren't you re-encoding everytime you hit a GOP longer than 18? Seems to me that's not what you want. Have you noticed many issues with the long GOPs? DVD-Lab seems to swallow them just fine.

captain_video
03-30-2006, 02:21 PM
But effectively then aren't you re-encoding everytime you hit a GOP longer than 18?
I believe it basically does the same thing wherever it encounters a frame-accurate cut that doesn't fall on a GOP boundary. It just rebuilds a new GOP header at fixed intervals to make it more DVD-compliant. I know I had a rational reason for doing it but I can't recall exactly what it is at the moment. I just recall that I read a long disseration on the subject in some other forum that seemed to make sense at the time so I started doing it with all of my ty mpegs edited with VideoReDo.

cheer
03-30-2006, 02:34 PM
You're right -- FAE cuts have to be re-encoded at the edit points. Both VideoReDo and TyTool do this. However, it's one thing to have maybe 4-6 small re-encode points at commercial breaks -- odds are the re-encoded video is just black anyway. :) It's another thing to re-encode every GOP that exceeds 18.

I vaguely recall a thread here on ddb when a few folks (AlphaWolf?) were starting to experiment with VideoReDo and at first someone suggested a number of VRD tweaks, including the GOP size. Later I thought s/he had backed that one out. But I could be completely misremembering. :)

My take is to alter the video as little as possible unless I have problems. So far, so long as I use DVD-Lab (not Pro) and the alternate muxing engine I've had no issues with the long GOPs.

captain_video
03-31-2006, 05:35 PM
I also use DVD-Lab (basic, not Pro) and the Alternative muxing engine. I honestly can't say that setting VideoReDo for GOP headers at fixed intervals of 18 frames has made any noticeable difference other than the length of time it takes to remux the file. I wish I could recall the rationale for doing it but my mind is like a sieve these days.:(

I'm in the process of creating a DVD with multiple episodes of 24 recorded in HD. The size of the files dropped considerably after editing out the commercials and padding, as I suspected they would (a no-brainer, really). Still, the size of just two episodes exceeds 6GB so I'll need to use DVD-Rebuilder to resize the DVD compilation to fit on a single layer DVD-R. I've tried DVD Shrink but DVD-RB yields noticeably superior results, especially on a big screen HDTV. The results I've seen so far using HDTV2DVD look extremely promising, although it does tend to get a bit lengthy. OTOH, I haven't seen a process posted anywhere that reportedly does it any faster. Here's a synopsis of the entire process prior to importing the final mpegs into DVD-Lab:

1. Extract ty files using TyTools10r4
2. Mux ty files to mpegs
3. Edit mpegs with VideoReDo and save output as transport stream (TS)
4. Import TS files into HDTV2DVD and process to DVD (creates a compete set of files with AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders)
5. Join VOB files into a single mpeg using VideoReDo and rename the output to reflect the original show title (you could probably import the VOB files directly but I tend to do some things the long way)
6. Import mpeg files into DVD-Lab and process as usual.
7. Shrink final compilation with DVD-Rebuilder so it will fit on a DVD-5 disc.

alfonzotan
04-01-2006, 02:16 PM
Hmm. I was doing fine until the HDTV2DVD step; it crashes when I load the .ts file.

Still, great thread, thanks to all for the solid info. I'll keep trying; I'll also give Apple's Compressor app a shot.

captain_video
04-02-2006, 02:28 PM
I tried my first compilation using DVD-Lab yesterday and it would choke after creating the VOB files. It would process everything just fine but would never create a set of IFO and BUP files. I tried using both muxing engines but got the same result every time. I shut down other processes in the background to make sure nothing was interfering but still no go. The final DVD size was greater than the capacity of a single layer DVD so maybe that played into it.

I decided to dust off my copy of DVD Workshop and give that a try. I gave up on using it with ty mpegs a long time ago because it was simpy too problematic trying to feed 480X480 files into DVDWS. I figured since the output files from HDTV2DVD were 720X480 it should no longer be an issue. I had to figure out how to use the program all over again but once I got started it was like riding a bike. The compilation took a fraction of the time that DVD-Lab did and worked the very first time. Now I've got to see if DVD-Rebuilder likes the files and will give me a quality DVD-5 output. I'll run it tonight before I go to bed and see how it turns out.

captain_video
04-03-2006, 03:21 PM
Follow-up: The DVD compilation processed fine in DVD-Rebuilder and yielded a single layer DVD containing two episodes of 24 that were authored in DVD Workshop. I burned the DVD and played it back on my HDTV with excellent results. While it may not look quite as good as the original HD feed, it is comparable to commercial DVD quality which is all I could have hoped for. It looks far better than the tyDVDs I was creating from standard definition DTivo files so it looks like this process is a keeper.

I tried the next two episiodes and I am unable to generate a transport stream output due to excessive PTS underflow errors. The prognosis is that the original recording is generally hosed although it plays back fine on the HDTivo. So far I have been able to generate a set of TS files for the third pair of episodes so the PTS underflow issue was probably isolated to the individual recording and hopefully will not be a regular occurrence. If anyone knows of a fix for PTS underflow errors I'd love to hear about it.

schak
04-03-2006, 04:54 PM
Captain_Video

How much better is DVD-ReBuild over DVD-Shrink, Picture quality wise? I haven't use DVD-ReBuild but I've used DVD-Shrink and liked the results and seems easy to use. What I do is use the re-author feature and load in the titles from the various VIDEO_TS folders that I want and have DVD Shrink fit it on a DVD5. Quick, easy, and great results; I didn't have to re-join any VOB files like you mentioned for the DVD-Rebuild technique.

I think there is a settings in DVD shrink to optimize on quality it may not be on on by default which could help. You can also have the final result to be saved as a DVD iso for burning a feature I like.

Greate job and posts on your experiments, keep it up and keep posting.

captain_video
04-03-2006, 09:27 PM
Rejoining the VOBs has nothing to do with DVD-RB. It has to do with using HDTV2DVD. I have to remux the edited mpeg files from the HDTivo to transport streams so I can import them into HDTV2DVD. HDTV2DVD doesn't give me any options other than to create a set of DVD-compliant files ready for burning. This yields individual VOB files of 1GB each that have to be rejoined so I can use them with my authoring software. There might be an easier method for using HDTV2DVD but I haven't taken the time to go through whatever support docs are available yet.

If you have a TV monitor that is 32" or smaller you probably won't see a noticeable difference between DVD Shrink and DVD-Rebuilder. If you have a larger monitor, especially if it's an HDTV monitor, you will begin to see more noise in the DVD Shrink compilations than with the DVD-RB discs. This is noticeable as a grainy picture that starts to look like a bad VHS tape as the display size gets larger.

There's all kinds of info on DVD-RB and DVD Shrink over at the Doom9.org forums. There have been several direct comparisons made between the two programs and DVD-RB is the hands-down winner every time. The only caveat is that you have to buy the encoding software, although there are freeware encoders that you can use as well. I use the basic version of CinemaCraft Encoder (CCE) that costs about $50 and the results are excellent. The rest of the required software is free for download. DVD-RB is basically a tool that makes use of other readily available programs that perform their specific functions better than a single all-in-one transcoding tool. DVD-RB coordinates all of their functions via a user interface with the click of a single button.

The only downside to using DVD-RB vs. DVD Shrink is that it takes a lot longer to process the files. I believe DVD Shrink will do a DVD in about 30-40 minutes whereas DVD-RB may take 5-6 hours. I haven't used DVD Shrink in a while so my times may be a bit off for using it. I usually start DVD-RB right before I go to bed or before I leave for work in the morning. That way the files are done and ready to burn to DVD the next time I use my PC.

captain_video
04-04-2006, 03:35 PM
So far I've been able to make a couple of DVDs of 24 episodes with two episodes per disc. The total size of the disc is only slightly larger than a DVD-5 disc so I don't need to compress it by much to fit on a single layer DVD-R disc.

The main problem I'm running into at the moment is in processing the HD ty files. I've had several files cause premature termination of TyTools while trying to mux them to mpg files. The other problem has stemmed from PTS underflow errors when trying to convert the edited mpgs to transport streams.

I'm going to try processing the same files but this time take note of where errors are occuring in the files. Once I've logged the locations where the faults are occurring I will attempt to process the file in segments. I will do this by setting the jump interval equal to the point at where the faulty segment ends and normal processing begins and set the length equal to the number of chunks between that point and the chunk where the next fault occurs and spits out a BAD DUMP error. I've had at least one file that muxed a ty file partially and then just quit adding any info to the final mpg file, even though it processed the entire file to completion. The resulting mpg file was about 800MB smaller than the original ty file and was missing about the last eight minutes of the recording plus the additional padding at the end.

laserfan
04-05-2006, 09:55 AM
...Of the, admittely, limited set of apps I've tried, the only one I've found so far that truly does the right thing with 1080i video (e.g., a "live" sporting event) is mencoder with the right options. Everything else tries to deinterlace it and make it look like 24fps "film", completely ruining the fluidity of motion in the process.Can you please post what you are using as "the right options" for mencoder?

I have had a HECK of a time trying to convert 1080i programs; in my case not sporting events, but NBC's 'ER' episodes. It seems they are a very bizarre mix of bff video and film. I have tried a zillion filters & settings to try to get "fluid motion" and in the end I've found that the only thing that looks acceptable is simple field-tossing. That is, I use "SeparateFields().SelectEven()" which if I understand correctly just throws-away half the 60fields/sec. Fine for the video portions but less fine for the 3/2 stuff.

If there is a better way to do this I would really like to know about it!!! :confused:

laserfan
04-05-2006, 10:04 AM
One of the reasons I've avoided using one of the semi-automated tools is due to the issue that wbelhaven brings up: how to handle different sources. (If I conver stuff that everyone knows, kindly ignore.)

Film sources (as mentioned) originate at 24 frames/sec. However, traditional (non-HD) NTSC broadcasts at about 60 fields/sec, which is roughly equivalent to 30 frames/sec (but not the same thing). So when something that was filmed (e.g. The Sopranos) is shown on non-HD NTSC TV, two things happen: (1) the frame rate has to be brought up from 24 to ~30, and (2) the video has to be interlaced so we end up with ~60 fields/sec. This is done using 3:2 pulldown.

Say you have four film frames: A B C D. Now for standard NTSC, those frames are moving at 24 frames/s. We need to get them to ~30 frames/sec...or, really, ~60 fields/sec. So in the time that we get four film frames, we want 10 NTSC fields. Remember that each field is half the video information (odd or even lines), so for the purposes of this discussion only, think of 1 frame = 2 fields. So the field pattern (where "o" = odd and "e" = even) might be: AoAeBoBeBoCeCoDeDoDe. Thus, 10 fields. Notice that we have an extra B and D field...that's how we pad out to 10. Think of this process as an "artificial" interlacing...in other words, the source was not interlaced; interlacing was added as part of the pulldown process to stretch film rates out to match NTSC.

Now you definitely do not want to just deinterlace this. Why? Because what you want is the original sequence: A B C D. But what a typical deinterlace process will give you is: A B B/C C/D D (where B/C and C/D are hybrids). Ick. Instead, ideally we'd decomb, which (A) restores the original film frames and (B) wipes the dupes. It's not perfect -- especially if your source changes midway through (and yes, this happens). Donald Graft's decomb package for avisynth works well.

On the other hand, if your source is pure interlaced video (i.e. shot with NTSC videocams), you don't want to touch it at all. Trying to deinterlace pure interlaced sources will just cause you to lose half of the temporal information, which is not what you want, believe me.

Anyway...I'm going to try a few different avisynth scripts on various types of HD streams to see how things look on DVD. Will post results.I hope you do post again Cheer as it feels like you are an order-of-magnitude ahead of me in understanding this stuff.

As I just posted, I've had a terrible time with NBC's ER. This seems an ugly mix of video & film, whereas for example ABC's Boston Legal, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy look like pure film source, as least when I IVTC 'em they look just great.

You say you've avoided automation--is there a way to manually step-thru a video and select fields to toss and fields to save? How on earth would you end-up with a legal framerate if you did this? Sorry, I've tinkered with this stuff for a couple years now but still don't have the understanding that I need to be effective in de-interlacing. :o

laserfan
04-05-2006, 10:10 AM
Regarding the use of VRD+ to make compliant GOPs...


I believe it basically does the same thing wherever it encounters a frame-accurate cut that doesn't fall on a GOP boundary. It just rebuilds a new GOP header at fixed intervals to make it more DVD-compliant. I know I had a rational reason for doing it but I can't recall exactly what it is at the moment. I just recall that I read a long disseration on the subject in some other forum that seemed to make sense at the time so I started doing it with all of my ty mpegs edited with VideoReDo.I too am a little fuzzy on why I decided to use this on my Tivo files, but I think it was this simple: MuxMan alerted me to "noncompliance" and I fretted that some DVD players might have trouble.

For SD Tivo captures my process has been: TyTool to extract as mpg, VRD+ to edit and output as elementary streams, MuxMan to make a fully-compliant "First Play" DVD with chapters. Very simple & clean.

cheer
04-05-2006, 10:55 AM
I hope you do post again Cheer as it feels like you are an order-of-magnitude ahead of me in understanding this stuff.

As I just posted, I've had a terrible time with NBC's ER. This seems an ugly mix of video & film, whereas for example ABC's Boston Legal, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy look like pure film source, as least when I IVTC 'em they look just great.
Yeah...I've had all kinds of weird things show up. My local ABC affiliate (may be a nat'l problem but I dunno) has frequent audio issues. As the show comes back out of commercial, sometimes it "stays" in DD2.0, or at least it reports as such to my receiver, so I get no center channel (and thus no dialog) until it "fixes" itself, which can take seconds or, sometimes, minutes.

NBC, OTOH, here has a real issue with volume changes from national to local -- the program and nat'l commercials sound low, then the local stuff blasts at significantly higher volume. Plus, as it switches from one to the other there's a loud "bzzzt" noise. Ick.

And then there's the fun where a weatheralert appears in the middle of the show...because then the show's video switches to 480i/4:3!

You say you've avoided automation--is there a way to manually step-thru a video and select fields to toss and fields to save? How on earth would you end-up with a legal framerate if you did this? Sorry, I've tinkered with this stuff for a couple years now but still don't have the understanding that I need to be effective in de-interlacing. :o
I don't mean that manual. :) I just mean avoiding one-button-click. What are you using to do the IVTC? The prevailing thoughts on doom9 seem to suggest telecide/fdecimate is the best approach, but you know doom9.

Here's my current experiment. I'm using a 720p source ("Bones" from Fox). Extracted with mfs_ftp to .tmf. (No specific reason for this other than I was originally going to shove it on another Tivo and re-insert later.) Convert to .mpg via TyTool. Edit commercials out in VideoReDo+. Create a .d2v project with DGIndex.

Then I created the following avisynth script:


LoadPlugin("DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("FDecimate.dll")
LoadPlugin("BT709ToBT601.dll")
LoadPlugin("UnDot.dll")

MPEG2Source("bones.d2v")
FDecimate(rate=23.976,threshold=1.0)
LanczosResize(720,480)
BT709ToBT601()
UnDot()
Opened the .avs file in Canopus ProCoder (could easily be any MPG2 encoder...CCE, TMPGEnc, etc.) and re-encoded. Took the resulting m2v file and tossed it into DVD-Lab along with the .ac3 file (created by DGIndex). Authored.

I am now burning this to a DVD-RW. We will see how it looks. I didn't spend any time checking that threshold for FDecimate, so that's probably got to be tweaked. And I played hell getting the aspect ratio to end up correct -- first time I did something wrong and ended up with 4:3 letterboxed video, second time I did something wrong and ended up with 16:9 pillarboxed video (!). Third time seemed right -- the resulting m2v file showed 720x480 but with the 16:9 flag enabled and DVD-Lab seems to think it's 16:9, so we shall see. Took a couple hours to encode on my AMD Athlon 64 3000+.

laserfan
04-05-2006, 01:36 PM
Far be it for me to give you advice cheer, but you might want to try HDTV2DVD (freeware) which is the fastest way that I have found to get from an HD transport stream to a compliant DVD of either DVD-5 or DVD-9 (DL) dimensions. You'd just save out of VRD+ as a transport stream, drag it onto HDTV2DVD, and presto you have an anamorphic SD DVD titleset. It requires .NET framework 2.0 I believe, and the underlying magic is ffmpeg. But it has always worked for me in determining how to de-interlace the video. The only thing you miss is the Undot, but frankly I dunno why you bother with that as HD is gorgeous anyway. Makes DVDs as pretty as any commercial DVD I've ever seen.

My objectives are different; I usually just want to make either an HD or SD (or both) XviD conversion for playback on my media players. For this I use AutoGK, Fairuse Wizard, and recently StaxRip which gives the flexibility of custom scripting. But there's little magic to ABC shows (never did a Fox) which despite that my local affiliate converts from 720p to 1080i (!) still requires a simple IVTC:

AGK: Telecide(movie,order=1,guide=1,post=2).Decimate(mode=0)
StaxRip: Telecide(guide=1).Decimate()

I guess now that I see the two methods side-by-side I guess I oughta try to figure-out what's different about them!!!??!!! :p I dunno about FDecimate--man there are so many filters & methods out there! :eek:

Now that VRD+ has an audio output level control, I process the "Next week on Boston Legal!" to output separately from the main program and at a reduced level. But these show-ending screamers are the only problem I've seen.

My proudest moment recently was for an "election Tuesday" broadcast of Boston Legal, where for two 3-minute portions of the broadcast my ABC affiliate switched to SD and zoomed the show-out to a corner of a 4:3 frame, and showed election results left-and-bottom. I was able to crop-out the blather, add sidebars and expand the SD, and it looked darn good on playback, wildly better than having to see past the election crap.

OK well we haven't solved my 'ER' problem, but if you have any ideas for me by all means fire-away.

EDIT: OK I've glanced at Graft's FDecimate and it definitely looks like something I ought to try (quote: "It preferentially removes duplicate frames where possible. ("FDecimate" stands for "Free Decimate", which implies that the output frame rate may be freely chosen, and is not limited to 1-in-N decimation)"). Maybe it will work on ER's mix of video and 3:2...

cheer
04-05-2006, 02:28 PM
Far be it for me to give you advice cheer, but you might want to try HDTV2DVD (freeware) which is the fastest way that I have found to get from an HD transport stream to a compliant DVD of either DVD-5 or DVD-9 (DL) dimensions. You'd just save out of VRD+ as a transport stream, drag it onto HDTV2DVD, and presto you have an anamorphic SD DVD titleset. It requires .NET framework 2.0 I believe, and the underlying magic is ffmpeg. But it has always worked for me in determining how to de-interlace the video. The only thing you miss is the Undot, but frankly I dunno why you bother with that as HD is gorgeous anyway. Makes DVDs as pretty as any commercial DVD I've ever seen.
Fair enough. I guess I was doing things manually because I didn't trust HDTV2DVD to do things correctly. So it's smart enough to do the IVTC all on its own? Interesting. That would make life simpler, because to be honest Canopus is making me crazy.

I just examined the results of the conversion, and damned if CPC didn't telecine the stupid thing to 29.97 fps. So I went back in, trimmed the source to about a 5min clip, tweaked a setting and tried again. Now I got 23.996 fps, but interlaced! Ouch! So I tweaked again, ran again, and got a progressive 23.996 file. Now I'm running the whole thing again; we'll see what I get in a couple hours. So yeah, maybe HDTV2DVD would save me the headache if its IVTC is smart enough.

I guess now that I see the two methods side-by-side I guess I oughta try to figure-out what's different about them!!!??!!! :p I dunno about FDecimate--man there are so many filters & methods out there! :eek:
Yeah, it's intimidating. I'm just experimenting for now. Oh does HDTV2DVD do the color space conversion that BT709ToBT601 does?

My proudest moment recently was for an "election Tuesday" broadcast of Boston Legal, where for two 3-minute portions of the broadcast my ABC affiliate switched to SD and zoomed the show-out to a corner of a 4:3 frame, and showed election results left-and-bottom. I was able to crop-out the blather, add sidebars and expand the SD, and it looked darn good on playback, wildly better than having to see past the election crap.
VERY nice. I'm going to remember that idea... :)

EDIT: OK I've glanced at Graft's FDecimate and it definitely looks like something I ought to try (quote: "It preferentially removes duplicate frames where possible. ("FDecimate" stands for "Free Decimate", which implies that the output frame rate may be freely chosen, and is not limited to 1-in-N decimation)"). Maybe it will work on ER's mix of video and 3:2...
That's just the sort of thing FDecimate is supposed to be good at. The drawback is if you really want proper results, you have to first run it manually in VDubMod with metrics turned on and go through the video for a bit to figure out the right threshold.

laserfan
04-05-2006, 05:02 PM
...does HDTV2DVD do the color space conversion that BT709ToBT601 does?I don't recall, but it very well might. You really should try it though--it not only gets the deinterlacing/ivtc right, but it's also surprisingly fast. On my 3.2GHz P4 it takes just a little more than 2 hours from start to VIDEO_TS. This for a 44min TV show mind you!

The downside is, if you're a tweaker, it doesn't give you a clue as to what it's doing internally--there's a log but it offers no details...

p.s. I guess my sig might mislead some folks. My standalone Philips Tivo doesn't do HD, but my MyHD MDP-130 captures all manner of HD transport streams off-the-air. Don't use the Tivo much anymore.

captain_video
04-05-2006, 07:34 PM
Sorry to hijack the thread but this is somewhat relative to the discussion but not necessarily to HDTivos.

laserfan - I've just started looking into HDTV capture cards after getting into the whole HDTV conversion to DVD. I'm getting so many bad streams extracted from the HDTivos that I'm thinking of going that route. Have you gotten good results with recordings using the MyHD MDP-130 card? I'm looking at that card and also the OnAirUSB-HDTV USB 2.0 external tuner.

They both appear to have similar capabilities and features and are fairly close in price. I'm running out of PCI slots in my PC so the USB tuner is looking pretty good right now. I believe the OnAirUSB-HDTV tuner also has built-in hardware conversion to create a 720X480 output without requiring any CPU resources so that's looking pretty good right now as well. It would be nice to be able to record in HD and just run the recording through the external tuner to provide DVD-compatible mpeg2 files. The only question is what sort of quality do I get after the conversion?

laserfan
04-06-2006, 12:11 AM
I am very happy with my MDP-130 but know nothing about the USB device. Feels tho like apples & oranges.

The MDP-130 grabs Digital OTA and unencrypted cable of course, but it also has component HD-out to your HDTV. Will also do DVI w/addon daughtercard. So you don't need a powerful PC (mine's an 800MHz VIA C3 Shuttle) nor do you need a video card of any consequence (I run mine via VNC in fact). But it doesn't do analog caps nor does it do any conversions.

I am prolly 45mi from the broadcast antennas but get strong signal w/only a rabbit-ear antenna--very, very few dropouts or glitches or pixelation of any kind and what do occur I'm convinced are passing airplanes or transmission problems. In any case they occur fewer than a brief glitch every 3 or 4 hours of recording.

Note I really do very little xsfer-to-DVD anymore. I usually edit-and-watch OTA HD in the original 15Mbps 1080i or 720p, and then convert to HD XviD and/or SD XviD for archiving and for playback on my Pinnacle ShowCenter players.

captain_video
04-07-2006, 03:43 PM
Thanks for the feedback on the MDP-130. With all of the problems I've encountered trying to extract and convert HDTivo files to DVD I'm strongly considering setting up a HTPC strictly for the purpose of recording shows to extract.

So far I've extracted all episodes of the current season of 24 (I believe there have been 16 to date) and I've only been able to convert half of them to .ts files. Some of them cause TyTools to crash or simply stop muxing the program even though it processes the entire ty file. The remaining files that I have been able to convert to mpegs and edit cause VideoReDo to crash due to excessive PTS underflow errors. All recordings are from OTA HD locals (Fox).

The good news that all of the .ts files I was able to create have yielded excellent results when authored and burned to DVD. The size of the compiled DVDs with two 1-hour episodes have been about 4.8GB so I've been using DVD-Rebuilder to shrink them down to fit a single layer DVD-R. The final DVD is on a par with commercial DVDs and far better than my standard definition DTivo extractions. The only thing that could top this would be the introduction of recordable HD-DVD/Blu-Ray discs for true HD-DVDs.

captain_video
04-07-2006, 09:19 PM
Well, I got tired of getting the constant errors when muxing my mpegs to transport stream (.ts) files so I checked out the VideReDo support forums to see if I could find an answer there. Imagine my surprise when I found the answer in a thread from someone else experiencing the same problem. It was some guy named laserfan! Geez, ya think he'd throw me a bone with all the griping I did.

BTW, just kidding, LF. I was just happy to find there was an easy fix to get VRD working with .ts files again. It turns out that I had to fiddle with the settings on the Output screen (i.e., Save As screen, Options button) and also the Transport Output settings. I set the output bit rate to 15Mbps and was able to save files to transport streams that were previously giving me fits. Now if I can get the muxing problem solved using TyTools I'll be in clover. FYI - I tried using HDemux and it choked on the same ty files. It would appear to split them OK, but with a lot of errors reported, and would simply die almost immediately when using mplex, indicating that it couldn't find the next AC-3 packet or something to that effect.

wbelhaven
04-08-2006, 04:31 AM
...Of the, admittely, limited set of apps I've tried, the only one I've found so far that truly does the right thing with 1080i video (e.g., a "live" sporting event) is mencoder with the right options. Everything else tries to deinterlace it and make it look like 24fps "film", completely ruining the fluidity of motion in the process.Can you please post what you are using as "the right options" for mencoder?

I have had a HECK of a time trying to convert 1080i programs; in my case not sporting events, but NBC's 'ER' episodes. It seems they are a very bizarre mix of bff video and film. I have tried a zillion filters & settings to try to get "fluid motion" and in the end I've found that the only thing that looks acceptable is simple field-tossing. That is, I use "SeparateFields().SelectEven()" which if I understand correctly just throws-away half the 60fields/sec. Fine for the video portions but less fine for the 3/2 stuff.

If there is a better way to do this I would really like to know about it!!! :confused:

Hi Laserfan. When I say video, I mean stuff that really, truly, has ~60 unique Frames (720p) or Fields (1080i) per second; not stuff that really only has ~24 unique Frames per second, which I affectionately refer to as film. Given these definitions, isn't ER "film"? If so, then I'm afraid I'm not of much help to you, as I assume you've already tried -vf pullup and the like in mencoder. But, for the sake of completeness, for 1080i "film" I use the following, which worked swimmingly well on an episode of Smallville on HDnet:

mencoder -noautoexpand -oac copy -ovc lavc -of avi \
-vf pullup,softskip,crop=1272:1072:4:4,scale=720:480,harddup \
-lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vqscale=2:aspect=16/9 -ofps 24000/1001 \
-o outputfile.avi inputfile.mpg
and for 1080i "video" (e.g., Olympic Gold Medal Hockey game on NBC), the following worked very well:

mencoder -noautoexpand -oac copy -ovc lavc -of avi \
-vf [phase=t],crop=1264:1072,scale=720:480:1,harddup \
-lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vqscale=2:aspect=16/9:ildct:ilme \
-ofps 30000/1001 -o outputfile.avi inputfile.mpg
where phase=t is present only if a field reversal is required.

BTW, I've had trouble with lavc mpg2 causing freezes and stutters in numerous DVD players, which is why I'm using: (1) mencoder to get to the right Frame/Field rate at the right resolution, and then (2) avidemux2 to do the MPG2 encoding. Hope this helps.

WB

cheer
04-08-2006, 08:38 PM
Some of them cause TyTools to crash or simply stop muxing the program even though it processes the entire ty file.
I've been running into this today.

Got a number of OTA-recorded HD streams. All I'm trying to do is mux to MPG -- no edits. On a number of them, TyTool runs for quite a while and then dies with "ERROR: Out of memory getting a new MuxNode buffer!"

I tried backing off to the old 9R19-pre3 TyTool with the same result. Searching around the forums that error was mentioned when people tried to edit the files, but that's not the case here.

Not sure what to do about these...if I can't get them out of .ty format I can't really do anything with them. Sigh. I'll post something in the TyTool thread to see if anyone else has hit this.

captain_video
04-08-2006, 10:34 PM
One workaround I've been using to get around this issue is to use the Get Parts option in TyTools and then mux groups of FSIDs. When I find the FSID that's causing the problem I experiment with setting the jump length and the length of the section to be processed. I find that if I can get the initial jump point to line up just after the point where the ty file causes TyTools to stop muxing I can process the rest of the file with no further incident. This takes quite a bit of experimentation but working on a single FSID (i.e., 512MB file) makes life a whole lot easier. There will be some loss of program material but if you get things lined up just right you can minimize this to only a few seconds or perhaps even less. I use the join function in VideoReDo to piece the various parts of the original file back together and then save it as a transport stream. With a little practice you can set the cut points at a scene transition with absolute precision.

I think somewhere along the line there's enough corruption in the ty file that TyTools just gets out of synch with whatever operation it was trying to perform, although it will continue to show normal progress and any bad areas that would otherwise cause errors to crop up. I use these fault indications as a guide to set my jump points and length of file to process.

cheer
04-09-2006, 01:18 AM
Well I'm too tired to try that :eek: but instead I tried something else.

I tried feeding the troublesome tystream to hdemux/mplex. Hdemux demux'd just fine, noting that it skipped one chunk due to timestamp discontinuity. Mplex seemed to work fine too. I brought it up in VRD+, trimmed the commercials, and saved to a .ts. Tossed it into HDTV2DVD, which is now working on its magic. Tomorrow I'll take the output, burn to DVD-RW, and see how it is.

captain_video
04-09-2006, 08:40 AM
Glad to hear it worked with hdemux. I tried using it on one of my troublesome files and didn't fare quite as well, hence the reason for using the more cumbersome method I outlined above.

laserfan
04-09-2006, 01:59 PM
...I checked out the VideReDo support forums to see if I could find an answer there. Imagine my surprise when I found the answer in a thread from someone else experiencing the same problem. It was some guy named laserfan!Ha, ha! I've been away from here for a few days, and was reading your posts in order and thinking--gee I wonder if VRD+ would work on his files--and you beat me to it.

I forgot how I found this thread in the first place cuz I know nothing of the HR10-250. But I'm glad VRD works, it's been a godsend for me sometimes (example: a tool I use to make Xvids, StaxRip, uses ProjectX to demux .ts files; well sometimes ProjectX chokes badly, but VRD+ outputs HD elementary streams that work perfectly).


The size of the compiled DVDs with two 1-hour episodes have been about 4.8GB so I've been using DVD-Rebuilder to shrink them down to fit a single layer DVD-R.DVD-RB is great, but for the little bit of shrinkage you need from 4.8Gb you should just use DVD Shrink--much faster than a complete re-encode which DVD-RB does (at great cost of time).


...Given these definitions, isn't ER "film"?Thanks for your comments, but no "ER" is an ugly hybrid mix of video and film. Of two episodes I converted yesterday, one was around 90% film but the other was only 60%. I don't know what the heck NBC is doing to encode these (surely they must be shot-on-film) but they are pretty bizarre.

After sending him a snippet .ts, I got an Avisynth script direct from "the man" himself, Donald Graft (neuron2) which is working great for ER:

assumebff()
telecide(post=2,vthresh=25,blend=false)
decimate()

Sometimes the episodes are BFF, other times TFF... go figure. While this script is working great for me, it is doing so at great cost--the "60% film" conversion took 5 1/2 hours! Normally they are around four.

But I'm glad to have found a solution that works.

cheer
04-10-2006, 12:33 PM
Glad to hear it worked with hdemux. I tried using it on one of my troublesome files and didn't fare quite as well, hence the reason for using the more cumbersome method I outlined above.
Sure enough, one of mine just failed in hdemux as well. So I guess I'll have to try the jump-cutting to see if I can get what I need.

Stupid WLS and their always-hosed audio.

captain_video
04-10-2006, 02:47 PM
Here's a few tips to keep yourself from going buggy with the jump/cut method:

1. Extract the ty file with TyTools.

2. Configure the audio options to fill in the AC3 holes and mux it normally.

3. When muxing has completed you'll probably end up with an mpeg file that is considerably smaller than the original ty file. This is an indication that there's a problem in the ty file that you'll need to work around. Calculate which FSID the error occurs in and download just that FSID using TyTools. For example, the original file size is 4.5GB but the muxed file is only 1.6GB. This indicates an error occurred while muxing the 4th FSID (1 FSID = 512MB or approx 524MB as shown in Windows Explorer). Extract just the 4th FSID using TyTools.

4. Mux the 512MB FSID file and monitor the muxing progress to see where the error occurs. You'll usually get a bunch of trash (i.e. hexadecimal data) being generated followed by a BAD DUMP message before it resumes normal processing. Note that you'll see this error during normal processing without having any problems occur but sometimes the error is so bad it just causes TyTools to forget what it was doing and stop muxing altogether. Check the chunk number that starts back up right after normal processing resumes (each tick mark between numerical values = 10 chunks). If you see the BAD DUMP message and the indications that follow are as such ".......1200.........1300.." then the error occured somewhere between chunk number 1120 and 1130. The resultant mpeg file will only show video up to the point where the error occurred before it stops muxing the file. Processing will continue until the entire file has completed but something hoses up the muxing process and TyTools is just going through the motions at that point.

5. Set the initial jump point to the same chunk number you determined in the previous step. In the above example I'd set it at 1120. Set the length of the file to 500 chunks or so since you only need to determine the correct jump point in this process.

6. Remux the file using this process and check the mpeg file when done. VideoReDo is a great tool for viewing the muxed mpegs. Chances are you'll end up with a very small or even a 0 kB mpeg file when you're done because you probably backed up to a point just prior to where the error occurred. Now you need to fine tune the cut point to get it as close to the error point as possible in order to preserve as much of the original program as you can.

7. Repeat steps 5 and 6 but set the jump point at about 2-3 chunks more than before. Repeat the process until you get the error point nailed to within 1 chunk. Once you have the exact jump point then you can mux the entire FSID using the correct jump point. You'll know you have the correct jump point because you'll lose all video if you decrease the jump point by 1 chunk.

8. Extract the remaining FSIDs beginning with the FSID right after the one containing the error. Mux the ty file containing the last of the FSIDs. You should now have three mpegs that contain the entire program with only one or two seconds missing or possibly slightly more. Don't forget to check the option for filling AC3 holes or you may end up with another set of problems that can be avoided altogether.

9. Use the joiner function in VideoReDo to recombine the three mpegs into a single mpeg file. Note that you can edit the commercials out of the individual mpegs prior to joining them but you'll have to save them before you can use the joiner to recombine them.

The process can get a bit tedious but you'll save a lot of time by dealing with a single FSID and limiting your test muxes to 500 chunks or so. You'll be surprised how many times you can set this process up and do another mux.

wbelhaven
04-12-2006, 02:44 PM
After sending him a snippet .ts, I got an Avisynth script direct from "the man" himself, Donald Graft (neuron2) which is working great for ER:

assumebff()
telecide(post=2,vthresh=25,blend=false)
decimate()

Sometimes the episodes are BFF, other times TFF... go figure. While this script is working great for me, it is doing so at great cost--the "60% film" conversion took 5 1/2 hours! Normally they are around four. But I'm glad to have found a solution that works.
Hi laserfan,

Could you provide a little more detail on this, specifically the context for this script? That is, do you have DGIndex break out the audio and AVIsynth serve "just" the video? If so, what's your "next step" with this (separate) video and audio? Also, would you mind providing your entire avisynth script if this is just a snippet? Apologies if you've already explained all of this and I just missed it.

Thanks,
WB

laserfan
04-13-2006, 10:51 AM
Could you provide a little more detail on this, specifically the context for this script? That is, do you have DGIndex break out the audio and AVIsynth serve "just" the video? If so, what's your "next step" with this (separate) video and audio? Also, would you mind providing your entire avisynth script if this is just a snippet? Apologies if you've already explained all of this and I just missed it.You said you used mencoder, which is a complete mystery to me, so maybe this will make no sense to you but... I usually use StaxRip to convert my HD captures. It employs ProjectX to demux the .TS files, but since ProjectX has failed a few times for me I use instead VideoReDo Plus to demux my files. Then DGindex to make a .d2v file and I open this in StaxRip which uses this sequence on the file before applying Xvid:

MPEG2Source("D:\ER - Time of Death.d2v")
Crop(0,0,-0,-12)
assumebff()
telecide(post=2,vthresh=25,blend=false)
decimate()
BicubicResize(640,352,0,0.5)

I think what StaxRip does is invoke VirtualDubMod, which opens the above .avs file and re-encodes the whole thing to my Xvid & filesize specs.

I can recommend StaxRip highly--it is relatively easy to use and allows Templates for every type of encoding you might want to do.

Oh, yeah the audio is demuxed in Step 1 and then you can convert it (or not) before re-assembling with the video. I keep the AC3 files w/my HD conversions (i.e. to 1280x720 Xvids) and convert to 160Kbps MP3s for my SD Xvids.

94SupraTT
04-14-2006, 05:59 PM
I just tried it last night on a HDTivo file I had extracted previously. I used VideoReDo to output the file as a transport stream and then imported it into HDTV2DVD and fired it up right before I went to bed. I don't know how long it took to process the file but I had a set of AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders, complete with .IFO, .BUP, and .VOB files waiting for me when I checked it his morning. I burned it to a DVD-RW and tried it in my Marantz DVD player.

The image quality was as good as any commercial DVD I've seen, at least from a rudimentary check. The only caveat is that a one-hour episode of 24 that started out at around 3.5GB didn't shrink in size all that much. I'd hate to have to use up a single DVD for every one-hour show I wanted to archive. I will probably use DVD-Rebuilder to shrink it down so I can fit at least two episodes per disk. OTOH, I didn't edit out any commercials from the episode so I should be able to reduce it by at least one-third when I perform the edits.

I didn't notice any audio synch issues but I didn't have a lot of time to check it thoroughly before I had to leave for work. I'll definitely be giving this process a closer look. BTW, the recording was made from an OTA local HDTV broadcast in 1280 X 720 resolution.



I have used DVD Shrink to put 3 edited episodes of Smallvile on a DVD and the didn't noticed any quality loss. Three edited episodes equates to about 120+ min. I've tried to fit 4 episodes on a DVD one time I noticed a little bit of quality loss then.


Awesome. Looks like I now have reason to hack my HDTivo. :D

94SupraTT
04-14-2006, 06:08 PM
This is somewhat off topic.

I have a p4 1.8ghz w/ 384MBs of RAM. Will that be enough to work with these HD ty files? I've been hesitant to hack my HDTivo because so many seemed to be getting poor results after the HD content was shrunk. However after reading this thread I am encouraged. Before I buy a 300GB HD I'd like to make sure my PC will be able to handle transcoding the HD content.

laserfan
04-14-2006, 07:09 PM
I have a p4 1.8ghz w/ 384MBs of RAM. Will that be enough to work with these HD ty files?I don't know about what it takes to get the files off your HDTivo, but once you do, I expect you will be able to process them--I don't think the question is "will it work" but rather "how long will it take and will I be able/willing to accept the time it takes".

For example, my 3.2GHz P4 w/1Gb RAM will convert a one-hour (actually 44 minutes, edited) HDTV show to a DVD (using HDTV2DVD) in just over two hours. Lickety-split I would say. A conversion to an HD Xvid file takes much longer, maybe 5 hours or more. To an SD Xvid file maybe 4 hours. So if your times are, say, 75% longer will you find that acceptable? Might have to do everything overnight so as not to tie-up your computer.

94SupraTT
04-15-2006, 12:15 PM
I don't know about what it takes to get the files off your HDTivo, but once you do, I expect you will be able to process them--I don't think the question is "will it work" but rather "how long will it take and will I be able/willing to accept the time it takes".

For example, my 3.2GHz P4 w/1Gb RAM will convert a one-hour (actually 44 minutes, edited) HDTV show to a DVD (using HDTV2DVD) in just over two hours. Lickety-split I would say. A conversion to an HD Xvid file takes much longer, maybe 5 hours or more. To an SD Xvid file maybe 4 hours. So if your times are, say, 75% longer will you find that acceptable? Might have to do everything overnight so as not to tie-up your computer.


Thats not too bad. Looks like I have a reason to get a KVM switch and set up my other PC next to the one I will be using to edit files off my HDTivo to DVD. Thanks for the response!

captain_video
04-15-2006, 02:44 PM
The time for extracting a HD ty file will be the same regardless of the processing power of your CPU. I have an Athlon XP 2400+ (2GHz) so your 1.8GHz CPU will only be slightly slower. The longest part of the process is using HDTV2DVD to convert the HD transport stream to a DVD-compliant set of files. One thing Imay have forgotten to mention is that HDTV2DVD not only creates a set of files ready to burn to DVD but it also creates an mpeg file that can be used in the authoring tool of your choice. I was initially discarding this file and using VideoReDo to join the VOB files until I realized what the mpeg file was for.

94SupraTT
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
The time for extracting a HD ty file will be the same regardless of the processing power of your CPU. I have an Athlon XP 2400+ (2GHz) so your 1.8GHz CPU will only be slightly slower. The longest part of the process is using HDTV2DVD to convert the HD transport stream to a DVD-compliant set of files. One thing Imay have forgotten to mention is that HDTV2DVD not only creates a set of files ready to burn to DVD but it also creates an mpeg file that can be used in the authoring tool of your choice. I was initially discarding this file and using VideoReDo to join the VOB files until I realized what the mpeg file was for.


Sounds good. I wasn't worried about extraction it was the conversion that I was worried about. You and others have helped clear up my concern though. Thanks!

alfonzotan
04-24-2006, 12:41 PM
Just to follow up a bit, I'd been getting a program crash every time I tried to use HDTV2DVD. I eventually found out my XP system doesn't like to play back HDTivo .ts files in Windows Media Player, which is used as the engine for HDTV2DVD's preview frame. Once I stopped clicking on the asset to engage the preview frame, and just went directly to transcoding the file, everything works fine.

Checking the AC3 box in TyTool fixed my nagging audio sync problems, and VideoReDo is an easy editor. Now to demux the converted MPEG, move it over to the G5, and see how it does in DVD Studio Pro. Thanks for all the posts here, great thread.

Blitz68
04-27-2006, 08:26 AM
Not to sound like the total newbie I am....are we pulling the hd out of the DVR for this?

Blitz68
04-27-2006, 08:29 AM
I am looking to image my HR10-250 drive in case of problems. Do you think it is possible to take an image via True Image and put it on another drive and use that one as the drive I am going to work with? There imaging software is amazing.

cheer
04-27-2006, 08:51 AM
I've never used True Image, so I can't say for sure...but if it does a bit-for-bit copy I can't see why it wouldn't work. On the other hand, you can use mfstools (or even dd), which we know works.

And to answer your other question...this thread deals with converting the video files. It presumes you've already hacked your DTivo, so at this point, no, we're not pulling the drive; we are pulling the files over the network. For more general hacking questions, check the stickies in the Newbie forum and post questions there.

Hi8
04-27-2006, 01:50 PM
I am looking to image my HR10-250 drive in case of problems. Do you think it is possible to take an image via True Image and put it on another drive and use that one as the drive I am going to work with? There imaging software is amazing.

NO, at least version 8.0 does not work in a TiVo drive.

uscpsycho
04-27-2006, 02:15 PM
I'm a new TiVo hacker. My main objective in hacking my HR10-250 is extraction for two purposes:

1) To archive HD content on DVD's playable on a regular DVD player
2) To archive HD content in a format that will allow me to create a true high def Blu Ray or HD DVD disc when burners are available.

I have a couple of questions.

When creating a regular DVD from HD content, is an extra step necessary to convert the program to SD? I can make working DVD's from my SD extractions but I tried making a couple of DVDs from HD content and I got an ugly, blocky mess when I played the DVD on a regualar player (looked great on my PC though). What went wrong?

For my second objective, what is the best way to save my HD extractions for future recording on a true high definition DVD (Blu Ray or HD DVD)? My assumption is that I should save the extracted .ty file until high definition burners & software are available. Do you recommend something else?

Thanks you in advance.

captain_video
04-27-2006, 03:04 PM
When creating a regular DVD from HD content, is an extra step necessary to convert the program to SD? I can make working DVD's from my SD extractions but I tried making a couple of DVDs from HD content and I got an ugly, blocky mess when I played the DVD on a regualar player (looked great on my PC though). What went wrong?
DVD players will only recognize 720x480 or 352x480 resolution video as DVD video. Standard DVD players cannot reproduce HD content as it is not a recognizable format. HD video extracted from a HDTivo is in either 1280x720 or 1920x1080 resolution. You need top convert this to 720x480 so your DVD player will recognize it.


For my second objective, what is the best way to save my HD extractions for future recording on a true high definition DVD (Blu Ray or HD DVD)? My assumption is that I should save the extracted .ty file until high definition burners & software are available. Do you recommend something else?
That depends on how much money and/or staroage space you have. You could archive your recordings on large hard drives or you could export then to D-VHS. You could also store the files on DVD-RW discs for later use. The format you decide to archive them in is entirely up to you. If you need to edit the files I'd go ahead and do that and then save them as either mpeg files (*.mpg) or transport streams (*.ts). If you have VideoReDo then you can save them in either format and also convert them to other formats at a later date.

uscpsycho
04-27-2006, 03:38 PM
DVD players will only recognize 720x480 or 352x480 resolution video as DVD video. Standard DVD players cannot reproduce HD content as it is not a recognizable format. HD video extracted from a HDTivo is in either 1280x720 or 1920x1080 resolution. You need top convert this to 720x480 so your DVD player will recognize it.
That's what I thought. What's a recommended way to convert HD to 720x480. I see a lot of mention about HDTV2DVD, is this what most people use with success?


That depends on how much money and/or staroage space you have. You could archive your recordings on large hard drives or you could export then to D-VHS. You could also store the files on DVD-RW discs for later use. The format you decide to archive them in is entirely up to you. If you need to edit the files I'd go ahead and do that and then save them as either mpeg files (*.mpg) or transport streams (*.ts). If you have VideoReDo then you can save them in either format and also convert them to other formats at a later date.
I don't know if this is implied in your answer, so I'll ask more specifically. If I convert to .ts or .mpg, will I be able to make a high definition DVD from these formats? I'm thinking there could be some new file type or video format that will be required to burn high def DVD, and that I may not be able to convert from .mpg or .ts to that new file type or format. That's why I was leaning towards saving my virgin HD .ty files and then converting them to whatever file type is needed for high def DVD recroding.

I'm pretty sure I'm asking a stupid question. Probably any file type you can use to make a SD DVD can be used for high definition DVD as well. But I just want to be sure.

Thank you.

cheer
04-27-2006, 05:41 PM
At this point I don't think we really know what it's going to take to author either an HD-DVD or a Blu-Ray disc. However, if you can't convert either .mpg or .ts to the hypothetical new format, then it doesn't matter what you do. You certainly aren't going to be able to convert .ty or .tmf to it.

HDTV2DVD works very nicely to do the conversion. It's simple. However, it's also very basic -- for example, if you have, say, multiple TV episodes you want to put on, it won't handle that. You could just use an MPEG2 encoder -- Canopus ProCoder, Cinema Craft Encoder, TMPGEnc, or somesuch.

captain_video
04-27-2006, 08:32 PM
I don't know if this is implied in your answer, so I'll ask more specifically. If I convert to .ts or .mpg, will I be able to make a high definition DVD from these formats?
Simply converting the files to mpeg or transport streams doesn't change the resolution. Currently there are no commercial apps or authoring tools that I'm aware of that will create a HD DVD but if and when they do become available I see no reason why the *.mpg or *.ts files could not be used directly for authoring your own HD DVDs.


HDTV2DVD works very nicely to do the conversion. It's simple. However, it's also very basic -- for example, if you have, say, multiple TV episodes you want to put on, it won't handle that. You could just use an MPEG2 encoder -- Canopus ProCoder, Cinema Craft Encoder, TMPGEnc, or somesuch.
HDTV2DVD creates a 720x480 mpg file along with the standard DVD fileset when it process a HD transport stream. The mpg file can be imported into any DVD authoring program to create DVDs with one or more titles. You can burn the DVD fileset directly to DVD with no further processing if you don't intend to have multiple clips on one DVD.

Even though it transcodes the HD mpeg file to a 720x480 mpg file, the file size doesn't shrink all that much so you may run into issues when trying to create DVDs with multiple episodes. You will have to use a resizing program such as DVD Shrink or DVD Rebuilder to reduce the size of the DVD fileset to fit on a standard 4.7GB single-layer DVD-5 disc. Another option would be to use dual-layer recordable DVDs so you can use the converted mpg files as is (after they've been authored, of course).

alfonzotan
04-28-2006, 02:02 PM
Simply converting the files to mpeg or transport streams doesn't change the resolution. Currently there are no commercial apps or authoring tools that I'm aware of that will create a HD DVD but if and when they do become available I see no reason why the *.mpg or *.ts files could not be used directly for authoring your own HD DVDs.

Apple's DVD Studio Pro 4 (OS X only, natch) does have the ability to author an HD-DVD (but not a Blu-Ray DVD, as of now). Of course, since almost nobody has an HD-DVD burner yet, you're limited to building a disc image. I don't know of anybody who's done this with HDTivo content yet, and DVDSP is not what anybody would call cheap.

captain_video
04-28-2006, 04:09 PM
That's not at all surprising when you consider that Apple also supplied the first DVD burners packaged with a home computer (the original Pioneer A01 burner came with a Mac). I would imagine any HD authoring software that might be available at this stage would be primarily for professional use only with a price tag to match. I wouldn't expect to see a consumer version appear until HD/Blu-ray DVD players start hitting the stores.

alfonzotan
04-28-2006, 09:53 PM
It doesn't look like DVDSP will import a demuxed HD .m2v file from a Tivo extraction. There's no point at the moment in pursuing the idea any further, since there are neither hardware nor software players for HD-DVD available on any platform (AFAIK). A disc image wouldn't do anybody any good.

uscpsycho
04-29-2006, 02:11 AM
As I've mentioned, I burned a DVD from an extracted HD program without converting it to SD. The DVD wouldn't play on a standalone DVD payer, but it looked great playing on my computer.

I just discovered a couple of high def wireless media players with built in DVD players.
http://www.buffalotech.com/products/product-detail.php?productid=96&categoryid=18
http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/products.php?cat=HNP&sc=AVEL&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDLA06

Would these play a DVDs like the one I burned with HD content?

Sounds like either one could also play wirelessly streamed HD files extracted from TiVo (after they've been muxed) over a wireless network or from an attached USB hard drive. Is that right or am I way off base?

One more unrelated question. In searching for info, I've come across a lot of discussion about HDTytool, but nothing very recent. Should I use HDTytool to extract from the HR10-250, or is the latest version of Tytool best?

laserfan
04-29-2006, 11:36 AM
HDTV2DVD...transcodes the HD mpeg file to a 720x480 mpg file, the file size doesn't shrink all that much so you may run into issues when trying to create DVDs with multiple episodes. You will have to use a resizing program such as DVD Shrink or DVD Rebuilder to reduce the size of the DVD fileset to fit on a standard 4.7GB single-layer DVD-5 disc.No, HDTV2DVD re-encodes HD to 720x480, and it does so on the basis of whether or not you have checked "Autofit". That is, it will re-encode at a bitrate that will fit a DVD-5 or DVD-9, so no further Shrinking or Rebuilding is necessary.

The only reason I can think of to leave Autofit unchecked (resulting is a "too large" VIDEO_TS) would be to use that interim S2D mpg file for input to another conversion program (e.g. to Divx or Xvid or what-have-you) or perhaps simply for high-quality playback on a Media Player such as my Pinnacle ShowCenters.

alfonzotan
04-29-2006, 11:39 AM
No, HDTV2DVD re-encodes HD to 720x480, and it does so on the basis of whether or not you have checked "Autofit". That is, it will re-encode at a bitrate that will fit a DVD-5 or DVD-9, so no further Shrinking or Rebuilding is necessary.

The only reason I can think of to leave Autofit unchecked (resulting is a "too large" VIDEO_TS) would be to use that interim S2D mpg file for input to another conversion program (e.g. to Divx or Xvid or what-have-you) or perhaps simply for high-quality playback on a Media Player such as my Pinnacle ShowCenters.

Is this the case for content that's smaller than 4.7GB to begin with, i.e. a single episode of a TV show? I just converted two episodes of "Battlestar Galactica" from Universal HD, and they wound up being in the 6GB range when put together in a single DVD build. No big deal from my perspective, even recompressed with DVD2One, they still look great...

cheer
04-29-2006, 01:27 PM
One more unrelated question. In searching for info, I've come across a lot of discussion about HDTytool, but nothing very recent. Should I use HDTytool to extract from the HR10-250, or is the latest version of Tytool best?
The HD TyTool was an "interim" release prior to TyTool 10. I recommend using the latest version, with the caveat that it still has some issues, especially with OTA recordings and audio wackiness.

captain_video
04-29-2006, 03:52 PM
No, HDTV2DVD re-encodes HD to 720x480, and it does so on the basis of whether or not you have checked "Autofit". That is, it will re-encode at a bitrate that will fit a DVD-5 or DVD-9, so no further Shrinking or Rebuilding is necessary.

I'm not exactly sure what the difference is between re-encoding and transcoding but I'll take your word that there is a difference. I never use the "Autofit" feature but prefer to use DVD-Rebuilder to resize the final DVD, if necessary.

laserfan
04-29-2006, 11:29 PM
Is this the case for content that's smaller than 4.7GB to begin with, i.e. a single episode of a TV show? I just converted two episodes of "Battlestar Galactica" from Universal HD, and they wound up being in the 6GB range when put together in a single DVD build. No big deal from my perspective, even recompressed with DVD2One, they still look great...You're saying the HD file was <4.7Gb? At 1080i or 720p and maybe 15Mbps bitrate? In any case HDTV2DVD has to convert from a higher res to lower, and a greater bitrate to one that is within the DVD standard.

laserfan
04-29-2006, 11:36 PM
I never use the "Autofit" feature but prefer to use DVD-Rebuilder to resize the final DVD, if necessary.But why re-encode your video a second time, with all the time and (however slight) quality loss involved, when you can simply tell H2D to hit a target the first time? :confused:

captain_video
04-30-2006, 10:59 AM
I don't use autofit because I've been processing a single 1-hour show at a time which is usually about 2.4GB so no resizing is necessary. HDTV2DVD won't accept multiple ts files, at least from my limited experience with it. I process one ts file to get the re-encoded mpg file and then use DVD Workshop to compile the final DVD. Sometimes the final size will fit on a single DVD-R and sometimes it is slightly larger and needs to be shrunk. I won't know what the final size is until I've authored the DVD but I can usually make an educated guess based on the sizes of the two mpeg files.

alfonzotan
04-30-2006, 11:53 AM
You're saying the HD file was <4.7Gb? At 1080i or 720p and maybe 15Mbps bitrate? In any case HDTV2DVD has to convert from a higher res to lower, and a greater bitrate to one that is within the DVD standard.

Exactly. The HD file is right around 4GB. The output SD file is about 2.5 GB. Like I said, it's not a big deal, the completed disc images are easy to resize again, and the quality loss from that step is negligible.

On another HDTV2DVD transfer note, is anybody else noticing jerky motion in the SD MPEGs? It's particularly noticable in wide panning shots, motion that's smooth in the original is noticably jerky in the converted SD version. If I can reach ChrissyBoy (author of HDTV2DVD), I'll send him a couple of samples.

laserfan
04-30-2006, 10:54 PM
I saw your post over there. Sometimes the analysis tools are fooled by the videos, especially hybrids. I have found (and maybe I mentioned it here already) that NBC's ER in particular is a very ugly mess of Video and Film. Next to impossible to get smooth pans, at least not automagically...

cheer
04-30-2006, 11:30 PM
I saw your post over there. Sometimes the analysis tools are fooled by the videos, especially hybrids. I have found (and maybe I mentioned it here already) that NBC's ER in particular is a very ugly mess of Video and Film. Next to impossible to get smooth pans, at least not automagically...
Yeah I was just playing with an episode of ER. Yikes. Made even more complicated by my OTA signal going wacky once or twice.

Near as I can tell the only thing to do is manually scan through it, break the file up into chunks based on video/film, handle each chunk separately, then stitch back together.

Sadly, I don't have the patience for that. :)

I wonder if it would be possible to create a DGIndex project file and then write some sort of tool to analyze the d2v file and process accordingly? I've never even looked inside a d2v file so maybe the info we need isn't there...but frankly I'm at a loss.

alfonzotan
05-01-2006, 11:42 AM
I saw your post over there. Sometimes the analysis tools are fooled by the videos, especially hybrids. I have found (and maybe I mentioned it here already) that NBC's ER in particular is a very ugly mess of Video and Film. Next to impossible to get smooth pans, at least not automagically...

Interesting. I've been converting "Galactica" episodes from Universal HD. AFAIK, that show is entirely taped (filmed? digitized?) in digital HD. I have no idea what the refresh is, though, much less what happens to the signal during transmission.

laserfan
05-02-2006, 02:47 PM
I wonder if it would be possible to create a DGIndex project file and then write some sort of tool to analyze the d2v file and process accordingly? I've never even looked inside a d2v file ...I've looked at a d2v file, and DGIndex also has a "parse file" feature for this, but it's worse-than-Greek to me for the most part.

An automated analysis tool would be the Holy Grail to me, but I don't know if such a thing is possible. Every thread I've ever seen on deinterlacing/ivtc'ing problems suggests you have to LOOK AT the fields to see what is happening, and then "pick your poision" ie. for some things like "blended fields" there may only be "bad" and "worse"! :(

wbelhaven
09-05-2006, 11:51 PM
I saw your post over there. Sometimes the analysis tools are fooled by the videos, especially hybrids. I have found (and maybe I mentioned it here already) that NBC's ER in particular is a very ugly mess of Video and Film. Next to impossible to get smooth pans, at least not automagically...

I know this is an old thread, but I was just browsing it and remembered something that worked for me on difficult telecined material, not unlike the troublesome ER episode that laserfan was wrestling with once upon a time. In my case, it was a 720p/60Fps episode of Vanished wherein every attempt I made with mencoder to recover the original 24Fps film cadence failed miserably, with very jerky motion. So, I did the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" thing and gave up inverse telecine'ing altogether, and just made 480i/60fps out of it using mencoder, which basically was the equivalent of encoding it on the DVD as hard telecined "film" content.

To make this more concrete and more directly applicable to laserfan's troublesome ER episode, instead of trying to recover the 24Fps film via something like this (for 1080i/60fps source):


mencoder ... -vf pullup,...,scale=720:480 -ofps 24000/1001 ...

I instead just made it all "hard telecine" interlaced material at 60fps (30Fps):


mencoder ... -vf softpulldown,...,scale=720:480:1 -ofps 30000/1001 ...

where the curiously named softpulldown does hard telecining of any soft telecined material in order to make the entire show hard telecined. In that second example, some additional info must be given to the MPG encoder to tell it that the entire source is now interlaced (which a hard telecined "film" indeed is).

Someone well versed in AVSynth can hopefully tell you how to translate this strategy into a suitable script. Unfortunately, I'm not that guy. Hope this helps though.

WB

P.S. Capital Fps means (progressive) Frames per second. Lower-case fps means (interlaced) fields per second.

wbelhaven
09-06-2006, 12:02 AM
Here's a few tips to keep yourself from going buggy with the jump/cut method: ...

Hola cap'n,

I tried your method on a .ty file that TyTool choked on (i.e., stopped muxing after it hit a troublesome chunk) and your method seemed to work great at first. However, upon playing the mux'ed MPG file (the one after the jump/cut) I found that it had no sound at all in either mplayer or PowerDVD, both of which play mux'ed HD .ty files fine in most other cases. I tried turning on and turning off the "Fill AC3 Audio Holes" function, but it didn't seem to help. I also tried jumping many chunks past the one I identified as the broken one, but that didn't help either. Has this happened to you before, and, if so, were you able to fix it?

Thanks,
WB

captain_video
09-06-2006, 08:04 AM
Yeah, I've had portions where the audio dropped out altogether. I just kept trying different things until I finally got the audio back. I haven't used the process myself since the last episode of 24 aired back in April or May or whenever it was.

The problems I experienced seemed like it happened at a point where bad pixelisation occurred and I ended up losing a big chunk of the show. TyTool would choke when it tried to mux the bad section and would stop muxing from that point on. My only option was to try and jump past the bad section so TyTool would complete the muxing process.

Rather than try and mux the entire file and experiment with various jump points I just extracted a single FSID that contained the bad section. I'd start with coarse jump points until I could get it to mux the file. I'd only have it mux about 200 chunks by setting the jump length so I wouldn't have to wait for the entire file to finish muxing. Then I'd fine tune it to get it within one chunk of the point where it would mux OK. Once I found that I'd go ahead and set the jump point and process the entire FSID.

I would then extract the remaining FSIDs, mux them, and then join all of the sections together using VideoReDo. I'd end up losing a few seconds of the show due to the bad section but that couldn't be helped. I also ran the Quickstream fix in VideoReDo to clean up any audio sync and timestamp issues.

wbelhaven
09-06-2006, 11:34 AM
Yeah, I've had portions where the audio dropped out altogether. I just kept trying different things until I finally got the audio back.
I know this was a while ago, but do you happen to remember what some of those "things" were that you tried? Was it simply a matter of "jump"ing further into the "problem" FSID until the muxed MPG file contained audio, or was it something more elegant? Thanks for your help on this, by the way.

WB

captain_video
09-06-2006, 03:23 PM
I always pad the beginning and end of my recordings. Sometimes a program that gets picked up by the overlap has a different audio stream than the one I'm recording. This can cause confusion in the software when there are two types of audio streams present. Sometimes the main audio stream gets blanked out when the stream changes, or at least that's my guess as to what's happening. I find that jumping past the initial audio stream cures this and allows me to process the audio from the show I'm really interested in.

alfonzotan
09-17-2006, 06:23 PM
It turns out that I had to fiddle with the settings on the Output screen (i.e., Save As screen, Options button) and also the Transport Output settings. I set the output bit rate to 15Mbps and was able to save files to transport streams that were previously giving me fits.

Thanks much for this tidbit. It just saved me quite a bit of butt-pain.

Jetstream
09-20-2006, 06:01 PM
I know this references a post towards the beginning of this thread, but I hate having to install .net framework just to use a peice of software. I'm talking about hdtv2dvd.

I like to keep my machine running lean and mean. I quit using drive image when it started needing .net. 36 mbs of bloat!

I'm going to try it anyway. Another pain in the arse, I downloaded and installed version 2 of .net and the latest version of older hdtv2dvd (2005) would not work with it. hdtv2dvd wants only the older version. humpfpfpf!

cheer
09-20-2006, 08:28 PM
Yeah nowadays I just take the HD mpeg and run it through dgindex/avisynth/hcenc -- all free, all lightweight.

94SupraTT
09-30-2006, 02:12 AM
The procedures below are the steps I took to sucessfully convert a hdtv ty stream to dvd, playable on both stand alone players and pc-dvd.

My objective was to be able to extract 1080i hdtv shows off my HR10-250 DVR and put them on a DVD-R for later viewing. Specifically to get the best quality on my 65" rear projection HDTV and get DD5.1 to the stereo receiver.

I won't go into too much detail on how to use the software or where to get them, just do a web search to get more info. The whole process is a bit lenghty but it's what I have sucess with. Hope someone find this post helpful.


On to the procedures:
1. Transfer video from DVR to PC using TyTool10r4.
Search this forum for more info

2. Convert TY file to VOB using TyTool10r4
Options->Preference->Audio->"select Fill AC3 Audio Holes" .. needed for DD5.1 audio.
File->Vob-Muxed File(s)->"select .ty file"->Process

3. Fix VOB file with VideoReDo Plus ver 2.1.2.417
Tools->QuickStream Fix->"select input steam .vob"->"save output stream to new vob file"

4. Edit and convert to TS format using VideoRedo Plus
File->Open Video->"open the "fixed" vob file"->"edit video as needed"->Save As->Transport Stream(*.ts).

5. Convert TS file to DVD using HDTV2DVD 0.4

6. Burn DVD-R using Nero 6.6.0.14

Enjoy

This method works great! Thanks for the post.

Jetstream
09-30-2006, 10:41 AM
It's amazing how fast HDTV2DVD is on my machine. P4 3.4ghz ee with 2gb Corsair pc5400 Pro.

Haven't done any PQ testing between Procoder-hcenc and others but it looks promising.

What areas need fixing with quickstream? Do you automatically perform the fix or see if it needs it first?

schak
11-28-2006, 03:07 AM
94SupraTT,

Glad to here you got it working with the method I originally posted. I've noticed you've experiment with other process as well, which process did you find to be the best ease/quality wise.

I've been busy with other thing for the last few months I haven't followed up on this thread till now.

94SupraTT
12-03-2006, 01:28 PM
94SupraTT,

Glad to here you got it working with the method I originally posted. I've noticed you've experiment with other process as well, which process did you find to be the best ease/quality wise.

I've been busy with other thing for the last few months I haven't followed up on this thread till now.


1. Transfer video from DVR to PC using TyTool10r4.

2. tytompg to convert to .mpg

3. Edit and convert to TS format using VideoRedo Plus
File->Open Video->"open the "fixed" vob file"->"edit video as needed"->Save As->Transport Stream(*.ts).

5. Convert TS file to DVD using HDTV2DVD 0.4 (sloooooow.....45min video takes 2hours to process) maybe it is time to upgrade my pc

6. TMPegenc DVD author to create menus

7. Burn DVD-R using Nero 6.6.0.14

94SupraTT
12-03-2006, 01:33 PM
I don't know about what it takes to get the files off your HDTivo, but once you do, I expect you will be able to process them--I don't think the question is "will it work" but rather "how long will it take and will I be able/willing to accept the time it takes".

For example, my 3.2GHz P4 w/1Gb RAM will convert a one-hour (actually 44 minutes, edited) HDTV show to a DVD (using HDTV2DVD) in just over two hours. Lickety-split I would say. A conversion to an HD Xvid file takes much longer, maybe 5 hours or more. To an SD Xvid file maybe 4 hours. So if your times are, say, 75% longer will you find that acceptable? Might have to do everything overnight so as not to tie-up your computer.


I have a p4 1.8ghz w/ 384MBs of RAM and a 45min edited Lost episode takes 2 hours to process on my machine using HDTV2DVD......Doesn't seem like any difference in processing time between our 2 machines. That really surprises me.

94SupraTT
12-03-2006, 01:52 PM
Has anyone noticed that files output by HDTV2DVD look like they were recorded with a film camera at 24fps? Its most noticeable in sports.

grwlfbg
12-03-2006, 11:59 PM
All,

Glad this thread has been revived. I have a couple seasons of Battlestar in HD (From Universal HD) that I want to edit and xfer to DVD.

What's the downside of using Tytool exclusively vs the methods in this thread? Tytool will allow me to edit (although I have FAE cut issues) and Author all in one tool. Is the quality lacking versus these other methods?

I've been using Tytool for years and am loathe to give up on it but if the utils you all are using in thise thread are that much better I'll give them a shot.


Thanks,
Chris

cheer
12-04-2006, 09:41 AM
TyTool has occasional issues with HD streams in general, and is almost completely broken if you're HR10-250 is running 6.3/6.3a.

94SupraTT
12-04-2006, 12:43 PM
All,

Glad this thread has been revived. I have a couple seasons of Battlestar in HD (From Universal HD) that I want to edit and xfer to DVD.

What's the downside of using Tytool exclusively vs the methods in this thread? Tytool will allow me to edit (although I have FAE cut issues) and Author all in one tool. Is the quality lacking versus these other methods?

I've been using Tytool for years and am loathe to give up on it but if the utils you all are using in thise thread are that much better I'll give them a shot.


Thanks,
Chris

I used TyTool exclusively also for everything SD. However, now that it struggles with HD I went with the method I mentioned above. The end result is pretty much the same other than nicer menus with the new method.


This is not a knock towards TyTool because I still think it is a fantastic all-in-one (free!) tool.

grwlfbg
12-05-2006, 01:31 AM
TyTool has occasional issues with HD streams in general, and is almost completely broken if you're HR10-250 is running 6.3/6.3a.

Ack! Mine's still running 3.1.5f. I need to hang out here more - didn't realize there was a software update - when was this? I guess they merged the trees w/ the regular Series 2's? Should I disable fakecall and let it upgrade? IIRC it'll trash my mods and I'll have to re-hack right? What are the improvements w/ the new software - do I get all the S2 stuff like HMO and such? Are there new kernels for this software update?

I'll dig around for older threads on this too.

Thanks all - I'll try the methods from this thread.

cheer
12-05-2006, 08:07 AM
Go take a look at the "FINALLY - An Update..." thread and the "6.3 tips/info" thread -- the answers you seek are there.

spaceman1013
01-09-2007, 07:43 PM
Someone had questions about creating HD DVDs from the original streams. Roxio DVDit Pro HD for the PC can now create/author HD Blu-ray discs.

http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/dvdit/hd/overview.html

I am not familiar with Tivo's HD content, but I assume its MPEG-2 if TyTools can process it. So you should be able to import that HD mpg file that tytool gives you as a video asset into DVDit HD and author it unchanged and in its full HD glory to a blu-ray disc.

I do not own DVDIt HD, but if someone gets this working with Tivo HD content then please let us know.

spaceman1013
01-09-2007, 07:46 PM
TyTool has occasional issues with HD streams in general, and is almost completely broken if you're HR10-250 is running 6.3/6.3a.
So what version does one run on a HD DirecTivo to get Tytool to work well?

grwlfbg
01-17-2007, 01:11 AM
I'm still running 3.1.5f and Tytool works fine on HD content unless you need to do FAE cuts. Sometimes when it hits an FAE cut my CPU spikes to 100% and starts leaking memory until it crashes with an out of memory condition.

I'm going to try 94SupraTT's method now in preparation for my move to v6. One of these days when I have a free wkend after I've pulled all my content off in case I torch the thing :(

Chris

captain_video
01-17-2007, 09:38 AM
Someone had questions about creating HD DVDs from the original streams. Roxio DVDit Pro HD for the PC can now create/author HD Blu-ray discs.
You can also use Ulead's DVD Movie Factory 5 to author HD-DVDs and BD discs. There's a thread at the AVS Forums that discusses a method for recording HD recordings to standard DVD recordable discs that will play back in HD on a HD-DVD player. There is no process currently available for doing this with recordable discs for a DB player, at least not that I'm aware of. Here's a link to the thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

You will also need VideoReDo and Nero version 6 or 7 (7 is recommended). I recently bought a Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD player and the aforementioned process works as advertised. I get about 40-45 minutes of HD programming from DTV (in 1280x1088) on a single layer DVD-R disc. I haven't tried recording any OTA HD programs from my HDTivo to HD-DVD yet but I've got the new season of 24 queued up and ready to process.

spaceman1013
09-08-2007, 07:24 PM
Have you been able to get OTA to play on the HD DVD player of yours?

Also what happens now that most HD content will begin to be in the format of MPEG4 rather than MPEG2, that is, is TyTools being retrofitted as we speak to handle MPEG4 streams?

It was announced 9/6/2007 that the Tivo series 3 boxes will support TivoToGo, granted these are not DTivo boxes, but what will these folks use to edit out commercials from those MPEG4 streams?

Curious, Does an MPEG4 editor like VideoReDo even exist today?