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Phillip Chapman
07-04-2006, 11:29 AM
I'm using TyTool for the first time. Had some difficultly connecting but I manually started tyserver from Telnet and was able to refresh and download from the "Now Playing" list.

Ok... after I extract a program and convert it to mpeg2 for DVD the screen resolution is squashed at 480x480, not the native resolution. I'm using TyShow Beta .14 to view the programs.

Please provide step-by-step instructions on how to correct this issue so that the finished mpeg2 can be usable in my DVD authoring program (currently TMPG 2.0 DVD Author).

Thanks in advance for your time and help.

cheer
07-04-2006, 12:30 PM
480x480 IS the native resolution from a DirecTivo.

You can burn 480x480 as is to DVD and some/many DVD players will play it normally. I use DVD-Lab to author and Nero to burn. Otherwise you'll have to re-encode to 720x480 (which won't look as good).

Phillip Chapman
07-04-2006, 02:46 PM
Cheer, thanks for the response. Much appreciated. I'd like to use TMPEG DVD Author 2.0 for the final authoring process so I'm hoping that if I create "standard" VOB files that this would work without reencoding the video.

Is it correct, that I can't make "standard VOB's" (ie a "VIDEO_TS" folder) in TyTool without making a menu? It appears that I have to make a menu within TyTool in order to have a VIDEO_TS folder created.

I see on the WeetHet guide that the author recommends using either to TMPG DVD Author or DVD Lab to work with the 480x480 mpeg2 files. I'm assuming he's referring to TMPG DVD Author 1.6 since 2.0 won't touch a mpeg2 that's at 480x480. Do you know if I could use TMPG DVD Author 1.6 to get the files in a "standard" format ("VIDEO_TS) that version 2.0 would recognize.

Thanks for helping me along with this.

cheer
07-04-2006, 03:20 PM
I can't help you at all with TMPG DVD Author as I do not use it. I use DVD-Lab which works wonderfully.

As far as I know TyTool doesn't make a "menuless" fileset (VIDEO_TS, .IFO files, etc.) without a menu, but to be honest I don't know that either. I do all of that in DVD-Lab.

Phillip Chapman
07-04-2006, 04:31 PM
Thanks. Hopefully someone else who uses TMPG DVD Author can share their insights and how they tackle this issue.

BustedSony
07-04-2006, 06:18 PM
The only way to make 480X480 work in Tmpeg is to restream or in some way change the pixel size headers. But you still end up with a buggy menu on a DVD that will play in less than half of hardware players. And Tmpeg is limited in its menu layouts. You HAVE to use either DVDlab (the non-pro $99 version) or TyTools' own authoring program for Tystreams. The resulting DVD will play in over 90% of all hardware players. The exceptions are older Toshibas and early players that don't correct the aspect ratio on the fly. When using DVDlab set to "Alternative engine" when muxing and "Force Audio."

I say again, use DVDlab, it's a pleasure to use and easy to make very pretty multi-film DVDs. On average one can put three films and a couple of shorts on each DVD, and the image quality is identical to the original satellite stream, - of course since there's no reencoding. I've used both Tmpeg and DVDlab(Pro) for my commercial use, (Producing standard DVDs) and I have long since switched to DVDlab exclusively.

I should add, if you don't want to go for DVDlab, then use TyTool DVDauthor, it is very fast; you have to make your own menu graphics and Nero complains about compatibilty before burning (due to irregular Vob sizes) but the result is a good DVD anyway.

Phillip Chapman
07-05-2006, 03:15 PM
So let me see if I've got this straight.

Does DVDlab just change the header info section of the file (to 352x480, 704x480 or 720x480) leaving the video at 480x480? Consequently, this makes the video playable in any DVD player as long the player can handle SVCD which is standard at 480x480. If this is the case, does TyTool DVDauthor do the same thing, changing the headers but leaving the video at 480x480?

Thanks in advance for the helpful insight.

captain_video
07-05-2006, 03:41 PM
DVD-Lab accepts the 480x480 resolution files as is with no modification of the headers. You will get a warning message that the video is non-compliant with DVD specs but it will still allow you to import and process the files just like a standard DVD.

FredThompson
07-05-2006, 08:48 PM
The header includes a definition of the display aspect ratio. Most plyaers will rescale to fit this resolution. That is why 480x480 will display properly on a 4:3 ratio. It's the same thing the DTiVo does when it converts from the MPEG2 stream to an analog signal for output.

You should be able to use the TyTool menu facility to make a QnD layoutusing it's fill-the-entries menu option. I'm assuming, and BustedSony would know better than me, that you could replace that menu with one from DVDLab and everything should work just fine.

It's not just the menu which is important for DTiVo-source streams, it's the multiplex. TyTool has custom routines to make this work properly. There is also a rudimentary way to adjust the audio offset if it is not properly synced with the video.

You can set Nero to NOT complain about out-of-spec files.

BustedSony
07-06-2006, 06:48 AM
I don't know yet if the menu alone can be saved from a DVDlab project, it should be possible. Can IfoEdit do that? A program that requires making menus in Photoshop, DVD Maestro, will also work with D480 files, but only through scripting. No one uses that ancient program now anyway.

The point to be made to Philip Chapman is that we understand that he is familiar with Tmpeg and doesn't want to climb a learning curve for a new authoring program; but TyTool works natively with Dtivo streams and DVDlab is more flexible and powerful than Tmpeg, and they ARE easy to learn. Working with D480 in Tmpeg would be an ongoing struggle yielding poor results. :eek:

stlouisrod
07-09-2006, 09:45 PM
Wow... I always wondered why satellite program material (non-High Def of course) always looked like @$$. Forcing everything to 480x480 is only a litter better than HALF the resolution of the lowly DVD (720x480). Why is noone complaining about this little-known fact?!?!? Granted, analog cable TV has always had this poor of resolution, and God forbid a new technology actually IMPROVE the quality of our entertainment for the same price, but there's no excuse for state-of-the-art digital media like satellite.

Unfortunately I realize the answer will probably be "we don't have the bandwidth to put all 200 channels in DVD quality, and would rather provide 100 channels of garbage you'll never watch instead."

cheer
07-09-2006, 10:01 PM
480x480, for SD video, is pretty good -- certainly better than VHS, etc. And on an SD TV it looks fine. The larger issue -- and the reason it looks like @$$, as you put it -- is the low bit rate / heavy compression.

Phillip Chapman
07-10-2006, 03:18 PM
So what is the opinion here of DVDPatcher? It seems that it can be used to change the headers for other authoring programs to accept the 480x480 file, then before you create the VOB's change the file header back as it was originally.

Besides the extra steps of changing the header back-and-forth are there any other downsides to using this method?

Phillip Chapman
07-11-2006, 01:26 PM
When using DVDlab set to "Alternative engine" when muxing and "Force Audio."

Where exactly are these settings? I'm working in DVDlab now and don't see them.

bato
07-11-2006, 02:41 PM
Where exactly are these settings? I'm working in DVDlab now and don't see them.
Those settings are for DVDlab standard, they are not present in newer/other versions. Try with your newer version to see if the output is ok.

cheer
07-11-2006, 11:14 PM
When you get to the final authoring stage, you'll see the option. Assuming it's regular DVD-Lab, and not Studio or Pro.

For what it's worth, I use the normal muxer all the time without issues.

Phillip Chapman
07-12-2006, 10:02 AM
When you get to the final authoring stage, you'll see the option. Assuming it's regular DVD-Lab, and not Studio or Pro.

For what it's worth, I use the normal muxer all the time without issues.

Ok, thanks. I'm using the trial version of studio right now. A few questions about DVDlab:

1. Will I have any difficultly using 480x480 Ty streams and normal 720x480 mpegs in the same project?

2. Ty streams report that the GOP structure is too long. Is there a way to fix the GOP to make it DVD compliant even though the video is 480x480? I'd just like the chapters to function properly if at all possible.

3. Is there a particular reason to choose one DVDlab version over another in terms of working with Ty streams?

4. I saw that DVDlab 2 is being worked on. Any idea how far along this is in the development cycle?

cheer
07-12-2006, 11:16 AM
Ok, thanks. I'm using the trial version of studio right now. A few questions about DVDlab:

1. Will I have any difficultly using 480x480 Ty streams and normal 720x480 mpegs in the same project?
I THINK you will need to use DVD-Lab Pro for that, as I think you need multiple VTS support. Don't quote me on that. I do know that you need multiple VTS support for different aspect ratios and different audio formats.

2. Ty streams report that the GOP structure is too long. Is there a way to fix the GOP to make it DVD compliant even though the video is 480x480? I'd just like the chapters to function properly if at all possible.
You can use VideoReDo to do that, but keep in mind that now you're going to be doing some re-encoding. For what it's worth, so long as I have checked "use frame indexing for better chapter accuracy" in the compile dialog I've never had an issue with the long GOPs.

3. Is there a particular reason to choose one DVDlab version over another in terms of working with Ty streams?Regular DVD-Lab has the alternate muxing engine which I am told handles the Tivo streams better. However, I use the Pro version a lot when I need to mix aspect ratios or whatever and I've never had an issue. Beyond that, it's just a question of features.

4. I saw that DVDlab 2 is being worked on. Any idea how far along this is in the development cycle?
No idea.

bato
07-12-2006, 11:38 AM
Very good answers Cheer.

I used DVDlab standard then PRO, haven't used Studio but you can't use Standard and mix 480x480 and 720x480, the video is created in a single VTS.

VideoReDo is a great tool and it can break long GOPs. Also mpeg-vcr can do that. Both will reencode every long GOP to create 2 or more new GOPs.

I have used PRO for 480x480, 544x480 and 720x480 files without problems. At first PRO had some issues with mpeg files from tivos, that's why we used DVDlab Standard with alternate muxing, but the current PRO version can handle most ok.

I think DVDlab version 2 will be only the PRO version, and it still take some months to finish (from what I read).

Phillip Chapman
07-12-2006, 12:18 PM
For what it's worth, so long as I have checked "use frame indexing for better chapter accuracy" in the compile dialog I've never had an issue with the long GOPs.

Thanks, that's helpful. What about the menu option, TOOLS - REWRITE GOP TIMECODE in DVDlab Studio? Does this also fix the issue or does it do something else related to GOP?

bato
07-12-2006, 02:23 PM
Thanks, that's helpful. What about the menu option, TOOLS - REWRITE GOP TIMECODE in DVDlab Studio? Does this also fix the issue or does it do something else related to GOP?
This option was added at my request, basically it recreates the GOP timecode in the file. A couple of years ago, when used TyTool to remove parts of the video, the GOP time suffer jumps, this make DVDlab put chapters at the wrong scenes. I used mpeg-vcr to fix the timecode but that function later was included in DVDlab.

I don't know if this still is the case as I do less editing and I do it with VideoReDo now (it rewrites the GOP timecode also).

BustedSony
07-17-2006, 12:55 PM
This option was added at my request, basically it recreates the GOP timecode in the file. A couple of years ago, when used TyTool to remove parts of the video, the GOP time suffer jumps, this make DVDlab put chapters at the wrong scenes. I used mpeg-vcr to fix the timecode but that function later was included in DVDlab.

I don't know if this still is the case as I do less editing and I do it with VideoReDo now (it rewrites the GOP timecode also).

It's best to reset the timecode for each vob or mpeg to be used in the project before working with them. You can do that under "Tools" in DVDlab.

Another thing is that there is a consistent 16 - 20 ms audio offset after ripping the vobs from tystream, I always advance audio by 20ms, (again using DVDlab) then add more for any sync errors in the original broadcast (common with TCM on DirecTV.)

I find that even DVDlabPro 1.53 will fail to compile some Tivo projects during muxing, leaving a blank Video_TS directory, and that only the standard DVDlab will handle the vob in question. Unfortunately that means restarting the project since DVDlab and DVDlabPro .dals are not compatible. So I always use DVDlab for tystreams unless I really REALLY want to get in particular features of Pro such as multiaudio and Resume functions. DVDlabPro is used for all other projectss such as captures and the industrial videos and wedding videos I do for a living.

Rewriting the GOP to get it to 15 frames is an option, but, beware, it makes the file up to 15% larger, plus it can, and often does, cause playback to be jerky in some software players.

There is no benefit in changing headers to 720X480 for a 480X480 vob, it is in essence "lying" and many hardware players will choke, showing half the image, or just speckled dots, and menu graphics become screwed up. For 480X480 mpegs DVDlab and/Pro Project Properties should be set to D1, and yes 720X480 and 480X480 mpegs can be mixed in one vts. In fact that's done by default because the mpeg is 480X480 but the menu is 720X480 anyway.]

Phillip Chapman
07-18-2006, 02:19 PM
BustedSony,

Thanks for the info. Great moniker by the way (even though I generally love Sony stuff.)

I was planning on going with the DVDlab Pro (or possibly DVDlab Studio), but if the $99 version is better suited for Ty streams, I may have to reconsider my options there. Im assuming Id need a separate license for both pro and standard versions, correct? Youd think the higher priced option would include everything and not leave out the alternate muxing engine.

BustedSony
07-19-2006, 03:26 PM
BustedSony,

Thanks for the info. Great moniker by the way (even though I generally love Sony stuff.)

I was planning on going with the DVDlab Pro (or possibly DVDlab Studio), but if the $99 version is better suited for Ty streams, I may have to reconsider my options there. Im assuming Id need a separate license for both pro and standard versions, correct? Youd think the higher priced option would include everything and not leave out the alternate muxing engine.

I had a Sony XBR from 1983 that worked fine for 5 years then the picture tube became gassy. It was such a good set that I was reluctant to throw it away and was hoping a used or rebuilt picture tube would come along, since a new one was far too expensive compared with the price of a new set. So for many years that busted sony was sitting in the corner. <g>

DVVlab Pro may go along for a couple of Tivo DVD projects, with four films on each etc. then the third DVD will fail, and the only cure is to rewrite GOP headers for whichever Vob is causing the problem, and that can cause the other problems listed. It's not easy to determine the problem vob. It's not necesarily the one that shows a "0-GOP." Thus considering all the films I'm getting I do have both versions of DVDlab. Yes they require separate licenses.

needo
07-31-2006, 01:36 PM
Would you say the final mpeg quality (after editing) is superior when it is outputted from TyTools or VideoReDo?

cheer
07-31-2006, 04:29 PM
Since neither program is re-encoding (except at edit points) then I wouldn't imagine there's much difference either way. (Unless you do change the GOP lengths in VRD, in which case you will likely see the quality suffer a bit.)

VaBeachGuy
03-03-2007, 03:58 PM
The way I make my DVD's from my DTiVo files is to transcode them using Canopus ProCoder 2.

It takes a little time to run through but it gives you a lot of control on quality, bitrate and resolution.

The resulting MPG is 100% DVD compliant and won't throw the audio out of sync (if you have your settings right).

captain_video
03-03-2007, 06:25 PM
The methods outlined using DVD-Lab require absolutely no transcoding. Most late model DVD players work fine with the 480x480 files generated by a DTivo so there's no need to transcode anything. SVCDs are 480x480 so anything that will play an SVCD will also play tyDVDs. Transcoding gains you nothing in picture quality since you can't make a silk purse etc. The original digital data will yield the best picture quality when used as is.

Transcoding used to be the only option available when trying to play back tyDVDs on older DVD players since many of them choked on the 480x480 files or didn't like mpeg audio. With the way prices have plummeted for players there's no longer a need to get the disc to work with the player. It's just easier to get a player that's compatible with the DVDs, which is most any model on the market these days.

I haven't visited this thread in a long while so I went back to the beginning to refresh my memory. I found it interesting that the OP was trying to use TMPG DVD Author to create his DVDs instead of using TyTools. Ironically, TyTools uses the DVD Author engine (or whatever it's called) as the authoring portion of jdiner's utility.

VaBeachGuy
03-04-2007, 03:02 PM
I'm not real familiar with DVD-Lab, I'll have to look at it and see what kind of authoring options it has.

Because of what I do with my DVD's I feel more comfortable transcoding them to DVD standard, I'll try DVD-lab though and see how that does. WHo makes DVD-Lab?

captain_video
03-04-2007, 06:03 PM
http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/index.html

VaBeachGuy
03-04-2007, 07:26 PM
Ok, I thought you were talking about that program but wasn't sure. I haven't had a lot of luck with that program but then again I've only used it sparingly.

I ran a file through it a little while ago and it kept crashing on me, didn't like the 480x480. The version that I have is Pro 1.53.