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marlboroman
11-16-2006, 10:45 AM
I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using this:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

to capture and extract from a HD Tivo. I really want this product to extract the stuff I have on my Dish VIP622 (unless someone on this forum can point me to a hack/mod for that unit as well) but it would also make my HR10-250 extraction a lot easier.

Jamie
11-16-2006, 11:27 AM
I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using this:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

to capture and extract from a HD Tivo. I really want this product to extract the stuff I have on my Dish VIP622 (unless someone on this forum can point me to a hack/mod for that unit as well) but it would also make my HR10-250 extraction a lot easier.Did you read the techspecs (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/)? Here's one relevant quote:

The HDMI standard can include copy protected encryption, such as DVD players. The Intensity card therefore will NOT capture from copy protected HDMI sources.

marlboroman
11-16-2006, 11:44 AM
Jamie,

Thanks for the quick reply. I didn't see that on the tech specs, otherwise I probably would have refrained from putting up this question. I wasn't sure that either of the dvrs I mentioned actually are HDCP compliant. What if I were to insert a HDCP stripper between the two. I'm fine with extraction of my content from the dtivo unit using tytools, etcs but really want to get the content off my dish dvr.

Jamie
11-16-2006, 01:08 PM
Jamie,

Thanks for the quick reply. I didn't see that on the tech specs, otherwise I probably would have refrained from putting up this question. I wasn't sure that either of the dvrs I mentioned actually are HDCP compliant. What if I were to insert a HDCP stripper between the two. I'm fine with extraction of my content from the dtivo unit using tytools, etcs but really want to get the content off my dish dvr.I'm no expert on this stuff, but I think that both the hdtivo and the S3 are HDCP compliant. No idea about the Dish box, but I'd be surprised if it was not.

HDCP strippers might be a short term solution, but the way I understand it, HDCP devices have keys that can be revoked, so a stripper device may quit working one day if your content provider is on the ball and keeps their key blacklists up to date [ref (http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/21/the-clicker-hdcps-shiny-red-button/)].

marlboroman
11-16-2006, 01:42 PM
Jamie,

Thanks Jamie. I read that link right after I posted follow-up. I think I am just gonna try tinkering with the dish dvr over the next few days. Almost all reports claim that this unit has an encrypted unix fs, but I think people are just being lazy or keeping their mouths quiet about mods to the unit. I guess I will take the plunge and see what I can discover when I open up the box. Extraction from my HR10-250 is painfully slow using the DUB-E100, rev B1. I think I max out at 1.8 MB/s when it's wired and about 0.8 MB/s when I use a 802.1g bridge. Was just looking for an easier/faster solution.

lsmod
12-08-2006, 09:35 PM
HDMI requires that you implement HDCP, so the Tivo will try HDCP. That said, I don't think it believes that any of its content is protected. I've had my HR10-250 connected to my DELL 2405FPW, which I don't *think* does HDCP. (It doesn't de-interlace, so I gave up on the digital input for TV anyway)

But, the real issue is going to be disk performance. You need a disk system (likely RAID) that can sustain the 1.5Gb/s that is uncompressed HD.

marlboroman
12-09-2006, 12:14 AM
Well I already found out that either the HDMI on the DVR I am talking about is either not working properly or implementing HDCP. Output from it to a DVI interface results in a picture sometimes or not at all. The DVI end is not HDCP.

But I don't really understand what you are talking about with disk performance. How is uncompressed HD 1.5 Gb/s? The typical 1 hour recording in mpeg-2 is 7-10GB. Let's say it's twice that uncompressed. That's 20 GB max = 160 Gb = 160,000 Mb. Dividing that by 3600 secs = 44.44 Mb/s. SATA has max transfer rates of 150MB/s and 300 MB/s (Bytes not bits) I don't think I' ve seen a modern age drive that can't write as fast a 100BT transfer. Maybe I misunderstood you but if I didn't, then your comment would suggest the Tivo itself couldn't record the stream fast enough.

lsmod
12-10-2006, 02:37 AM
But I don't really understand what you are talking about with disk performance. How is uncompressed HD 1.5 Gb/s? The typical 1 hour recording in mpeg-2 is 7-10GB. Let's say it's twice that uncompressed.

But it isn't twice that, it's a whole lot more. MPEG2 is lossy compression, so it throws away a lot of data that in theory you can't see.

Looking at uncompressed video:
1 frame (2 fields) of 1080i is 1920x1080 pixels, 8bits each for R, G, and B. 1920x1080x24 = 49,766,400 bits/frame x 30 frames/s = 1,492,992,000 bits/second. 1.5Gb/s or about 185MB/second.


SATA has max transfer rates of 150MB/s and 300 MB/s (Bytes not bits)

Yes, but don't confuse the transfer rate of the bus and the sustained throughput of the drive. Seagate doesn't even spec sustained throughput for the consumer drives, but the 10k RPM Cheetahs are spec'ed at "Up to 80MB/s" Real world benchmarks on the WD2500s that came in the HDTiVo vary from 36-65MB/s sustained.


Maybe I misunderstood you but if I didn't, then your comment would suggest the Tivo itself couldn't record the stream fast enough.

The Tivo is recording the compressed stream straight off the satellite. I haven't looked carefully at HD bitrates off the bird, but I don't think they're ever over 10Mb/s (OTA tops out at 19.3Mb/s) I don't get any OTA where I am, but if the Tivo can actually record two streams and play a third at 19Mb/s, then it's working the disk pretty hard. (It works just fine with DTV streams)

But the display doesn't have MPEG2 decoders, you have to feed it exactly what you want for every pixel, and when every frame is a 2 megapixel 24-bit image, that's a lot of dots.

I hope this helps.

-Zandr

marlboroman
12-10-2006, 02:55 AM
Looking at uncompressed video:
1 frame (2 fields) of 1080i is 1920x1080 pixels, 8bits each for R, G, and B. 1920x1080x24 = 49,766,400 bits/frame x 30 frames/s = 1,492,992,000 bits/second. 1.5Gb/s or about 185MB/second.



Zandr,

I understand what you are talking about now. However, isn't this a mistake in your calculation? 1080i delivers a full frame every 2 seconds so wouldn't the number be half? That number would still be hard for any disk system for sustained transfer so I got your point. Anyway, I didn't proceed down this route so this whole discussion is pretty moot but thanks for the additional thing to consider.

lsmod
12-10-2006, 07:03 AM
Zandr,

I understand what you are talking about now. However, isn't this a mistake in your calculation? 1080i delivers a full frame every 2 seconds so wouldn't the number be half?

Every 2 seconds? Are we talking about I-frames in MPEG (which would be irrelavent to the uncompressed discussion)?

Or did you mean every 2 frames? In which case, that's in the calculations. 1080i is actually 1080-60i, or 60Hz Interlaced. 60 fields/second = 30 frames/second, which is what my calculation used.

EvilJack
07-14-2007, 03:42 PM
Has anyone looked at this black magic card any further?

I'm thinking that I need a hdmi capable capture card in the
near future...

thanks - jack

VaBeachGuy
07-14-2007, 05:20 PM
Has anyone looked at this black magic card any further?

I'm thinking that I need a hdmi capable capture card in the
near future...

thanks - jack


I've looked into it and this is what I've found...




http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/software/

Online JPEG for Adobe Premiere Pro
On Windows, Blackmagic's full resolution (1920 x 1080) professional quality compressed HD codec can capture JPEG AVI files in real time using Premiere Pro. Unlike HDV and DVCPRO HD which uses reduced resolution 1440 x 1080 video, Blackmagic's Online JPEG maintains the full resolution 1920 x 1080 resolution of HD video without the huge file size of uncompressed HD video. Blackmagic's Online JPEG is so efficient that full motion 1080i HD video can be recorded at only 12 MB per second vs. a massive 119 MB per second for uncompressed HD video.

Blackmagic's compressed files are so compact, that 1080 HD video can be captured to a single internal hard disk or easily transported on a portable Firewire drive! Online JPEG is compatible with Premiere Pro and After Effects® and can even be used by editors without Blackmagic capture cards making it one of the most versatile compressed codecs available.


Now, looking at that the bolded section of the paragraph says 12 MB per second. That works out to 720 MB per minute or 43.2 GB per hour.

If I'm reading that correctly (and someone please correct me if I'm not) that means that the resulting files are WAAAYY too big, even if you were to burn something to Blu-Ray a 1 hour show would take 2 discs and at $20 per disc there's no way that's going to happen. Not for a 1 hour show anyway.

I'm not 100% sure if I've gotten all this correct and I hope I'm wrong about the file sizes because I really want something that will allow me to archive my stuff.