PDA

View Full Version : Decisions, decisions.



PlainBill
12-27-2006, 02:53 PM
Santa's helper was good to me this year. She brought me a HDTV. Now I need a HD-DVR to go with it. And there's the problem.

According to DirecTV's web site, a HR20-700 will cost $199 (including dish and installation). According to a csr, I will get the HDTV package free for 4 months. On the downside it is unhackable, does not run TiVo software, and doesn't record OTA HD YET (they promise it by the end of the year - but didn't specify which year). The csr 'thinks' they are in stock.

The other choice is the HR10-250. They're running $300 or so on eBay. Someone local is selling his for $400; I'm assuming I can beat the price down. I'll also need a new dish, or the 'C' lnb kit, about $15. It records OTA (important), is hackable (nice), and has TiVo software (very nice), but I'm wondering how long it's going to take to get stable software.

Any thoughts on the choices?

PlainBill

Roger Dylan
12-27-2006, 04:07 PM
It [the HR10-250] records OTA (important), is hackable (nice), and has TiVo software (very nice), but I'm wondering how long it's going to take to get stable software.The HR10-250 is very stable with OS 3.1.5f. Overwhelming evidence for that. It is _extremely_ unlikely that any stability troubles an individual may be having with the receiver could be accounted for by that OS.

As with all shorter term and scattered anecdotal evidence, there is a range of reported experiences with 6.x, including those who say it runs fine. I do not believe that is possible.

In any case, under 3.1.5f, it's a pretty good experience. A bit slow (a lot slow, some would say), and you don't get folders or tivoserver, but I was very happy with mine until I decided to drop DirecTV and go with the Tivo s3.

osetivo
12-27-2006, 07:05 PM
I'm in the exact same predicament, as I picked up a HDTV yesterday.

If for no other reason than this community, I would prefer to stay with TiVo and DTV, which means the HR10-250, but I am trying to have an open mind, while I get a grasp on my options.

I've been happily run SAT-T60s since before the dual tuner rollout, and have sworn I would never live without dual tuners. Unfortunately the HR20-700 doesn't support live buffers for both tuners. (yes I know the current work around is to record both streams)

What are your thoughts about the Series3 with cable?

oakwcj
12-27-2006, 07:37 PM
The OTA tuners have been activated on the HR-20. So has networking capability analogous to HMO. The software has been updated at least a dozen times since the initial release. People have had wildly disparate experiences with stability. It has gotten much better of late.

Of course, I miss the hacks, although I understand that HD extraction is problematic even with the HR-10. What pisses me off most is the execrable search capability, the lack of a wishlist feature, and the inability to limit "Channels I receive" to channels I actually receive. Overall, I don't really think the HR-10 is a good option at this point, since the new national HD channels are almost certain to be MPEG-4. If you have HD local channels, the video quality is very good in the Bay Area, but not as good in some areas. I also get the local RSN in MPEG-4, which is another plus.

PlainBill
12-28-2006, 12:55 AM
Scott, one detail I omitted; the NFL Sunday Ticket is a 'must have'. That eliminates Dish Network and the local pathetic excuse for a cable system.

oakwcj, thanks for the perspective. When you say the tuners have been activated, I hope you mean I can record from them.

MRV would be nice, but it isn't really available on either. HMO would be nice, folders are very important. I'm not to sure how the poor search capability would be received.

One important consideration: UI speed. The improvement from 3.1.1e to 6.2 was very welcome on my SD receivers. How does the speed of the UI on the HR20 compare?

I hear what you're saying about mpeg4. If I could get an HR10 for less that the HR20 I'd jump on it in a minute. At more than double the cost, I'm not so sure.

Thanks,

PlainBill

oakwcj
12-28-2006, 02:40 AM
Yes, you can record from the OTA tuners.

The GUI on the HR20 is much faster than any DirecTiVo.

sonyuser
12-29-2006, 09:33 AM
I too am in same boat (just purchased HDTV) and suffer the same delimna. Looking at the HR10-250 but concerned about it not being able to support the new MPEG4 format that I understand will become the standard.

Reading up on the HR20-700, I understand it is still in the infant stage with its software as it appears to be getting software updates pretty frequently. I will also miss the MRV feature of my present SD units.

With that said, I don't have a land line anymore so I won't be able to get updates via the phone line. If I temporarily take the unit to another location with a land line, is it possible to dial in and download the updates without having the unit hooked up to a satellite feed?

Great post! I am going to monitor this thread.

osetivo
12-29-2006, 10:36 AM
FWIW: I decided to purchase a HR10-250 off of Ebay.


<Sigh> Guess I should head off the the noob section and start reading.

oakwcj
12-29-2006, 12:55 PM
I too am in same boat (just purchased HDTV) and suffer the same delimna. Looking at the HR10-250 but concerned about it not being able to support the new MPEG4 format that I understand will become the standard.

With that said, I don't have a land line anymore so I won't be able to get updates via the phone line. If I temporarily take the unit to another location with a land line, is it possible to dial in and download the updates without having the unit hooked up to a satellite feed?

The HR20 doesn't use the phone line for software updates. It's all done by satellite. A phone line would be useful only for caller ID and PPV orders.

flynmoose
12-30-2006, 12:36 PM
Funny how the holidays bring about the same thoughts from many folks.

I too am in the same dilemma. Can barely tolerate the SD picture on my 32" Niko LCD although wife and kids don't seem to care and we've "made do" for 6 months now. Never realized how badly compressed the signal is on Directv SD.

Have been watching some auctions on Ebay but just can't bring myself to spend ~$300.

As I didn't read the specs too closely when I bought this TV, I don't even have the option to tune OTA HDTV without getting an external tuner, which really seems like waste of money.

MemphisBrian72
01-01-2007, 04:16 PM
:mad: The worst problem for me was the installation of the HR20 messed up my existing HR10-250 in another room and I had to run a 3rd coax to fix it. The new multiswitch sends signals which interfere with UHF/HD channels, making the use of a diplexer problematic. And this problem is not readily apparent; before the installers left I checked the HD OTA signal on the Tivo and it looked fine. But only some of the stations were affected. Running a 3rd wire to the Tivo for OTA fixed it completely.

IMHO, they should have included a multi-switch or filters that allow you to send the "old" style signals to your pre-existing receivers - running that extra wire was a pain and I'm sure the installers would have charged extra to do it.

:) That having been said, there is some good stuff about the HR-20:

Menus and UI are faster (if not as intuitive)
HDMI and composite out at the same time for sending to other TV
UHF remote included for control from other room
It plays music and displays photos from your PC

bozo8787
01-02-2007, 07:07 AM
Santa's helper was good to me this year. She brought me a HDTV. Now I need a HD-DVR to go with it. And there's the problem.

According to DirecTV's web site, a HR20-700 will cost $199 (including dish and installation). According to a csr, I will get the HDTV package free for 4 months. On the downside it is unhackable, does not run TiVo software, and doesn't record OTA HD YET (they promise it by the end of the year - but didn't specify which year). The csr 'thinks' they are in stock.

The other choice is the HR10-250. They're running $300 or so on eBay. Someone local is selling his for $400; I'm assuming I can beat the price down. I'll also need a new dish, or the 'C' lnb kit, about $15. It records OTA (important), is hackable (nice), and has TiVo software (very nice), but I'm wondering how long it's going to take to get stable software.

Any thoughts on the choices?

PlainBill

Here's my suggestion:
Go here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=62089) and you will see so many deals peeps have and are still getting.

The trick is to get a hold of the retention dept. And after several phone calls and some social engineering/rhetoric, (at 1st they tend to put up a fight, so u can use the old car salesperson team strategy, don't give in! Wear em down and the more "no's" you hear the closer you are to that "yes" or offer that will put a smile for your time and effort) you may also be a happy camper, with a very low priced HR-20.

I got mine for just S&H $19.95. When I got this deal I had never owned a HR-10 or any HD receiver.

They even sent me a letter after stating:

D* Account Number xxxxxxxx

Dear (Mr/Mrs so and so)

Thank you for participating in our offer to receive a specially priced D*HDDVR. Below is a summary of your order as well as the terms of the offer. In return, we agree to provide you a D*HDDVR with installation to your existing D* satellite dish at the above address. D* agrees to provide you a standard professional installation that includes:

-Routing of cable to your TV and receiver through an exterior wall or from your basement and connection to an existing phone jack within 25 feet to allow D*HDDVR dual tuner functionality.

-Connecting one TV and VCR to each D*HDDVR.

-Installing a triple LNB, mutli-switch or both if necessary to operate the additional receiver. (That however u must specify to be on work order)

-As a courtesy, the installer will relocate your old primary receiver to a new
location in the house if requested at the time of the order.

yada, yada, yada
You're all set! Thanks again for participating in our offer.

Sincerely,
D*,Inc.

This is not a bill. This letter serves as your receipt. Please retain for your records.
ORDER CONFIRMATION
QTY Description Each
1 D*HDDVR System $0.00
Professional Installation $0.00
Handling and Delivery $19.95
Tax $1.40
Total $21.35


Now, yes I've read where actual csr retention specialist claim that that "button" for that special have been taken from them. However, they still can give out "retention credit" which essentially is the same thing.
Even today,it should not be that difficult to get it for $99. There are many combinations that include programing credits, including being able to get for just S&H.

Also, it's true that the HR20, is still in it's early days to say the least. However, u can use this to your advantage. As soon as you experience (after unit is installed at home) buggy situations, like missed recording or the like. Then bring out your social engineering/rhetorical toolbox and get to work. Not only will you end with a free unit after all the programming credits they will offer you, you may even have some credit left over.

Personally, I am still enjoying credit left over. So I can say D* has paid for me to be an early HR20 owner.

BTW, I still have an HR-10 (I got this after I received HR20)which I will be ebaying soon. Buying an HR-10 is like buying a UTV when M$ announced they where getting out of the DVR arena.

Why would you shell out $300 on a dying non-d* dvr? When you could effectively receive one for practically free.

FYI, some may wonder or ask, why bother posting letter in mail? Well, when you 1st contact csr at retention they like to deny that this offer ever existed. This way you could just read it to them word for word and let them know your neighbor/friend got deal/letter. And you don't think it's fair being left out. Mind you, be polite and don't go at them with the same arrogant tone that one may encounter in this very forum.

Just my $.02

sonyuser
01-02-2007, 09:09 PM
So for a HD unit that is going to replace an existing installed unit at your house, does D* have to come out and physically install it in order to receive one of these new units? I am not sure I want D* in my house inspecting my setup. I would just as soon they ship me one and I can do install.

Aside from that, it looks as if D* has included the equivalent of HMO with the HR20, so I am leaning for the newer technology unit.

PlainBill
01-02-2007, 11:35 PM
So for a HD unit that is going to replace an existing installed unit at your house, does D* have to come out and physically install it in order to receive one of these new units? I am not sure I want D* in my house inspecting my setup. I would just as soon they ship me one and I can do install.

Aside from that, it looks as if D* has included the equivalent of HMO with the HR20, so I am leaning for the newer technology unit.

Technically, a DirecTV employee does not come to your home. Odds are they will send a contractor. The expertise of these 'installers' range from adequate to horrible.

I've had it go both ways. In one case, DirecTV shipped the system directly to my house, in the other case, the installer brought it.

PlainBill

devildog
01-10-2007, 07:10 PM
The Hr20 has a better picture then the D-Tivo.

Hmo is enable now and mrv is next.(ViiV)

There will be a package call DirectvToGo this spring.:)

Ota is alot sharper then D-Tivo and you can record it.

stevel
01-10-2007, 09:02 PM
"Hmo is enable now"???

devildog
01-10-2007, 09:29 PM
I was anounced today at the CES in Vegas. Intel and DTV together using ViiV.
But you do not need ViiV to network the HR20.
Go to d*'s site and see for yourself..

Also here is a good link for the HR20 xxx.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112.:)

redfiver
01-11-2007, 12:12 AM
The Hr20 has a better picture then the D-Tivo.

Hmo is enable now and mrv is next.(ViiV)

There will be a package call DirectvToGo this spring.:)

Ota is alot sharper then D-Tivo and you can record it.

OTA is sharper? I don't necessarily think that's true. I thought the OTA picture is clearer on my HDTV than in my HR10 or HR20, but I think the HR10 is a bit clearer. Both can record OTA streams.

The biggest difference for me right now, is the HR20 doesn't have Dual Live Buffers, the HR10 does. But, the HR20 will get FSN-BA in HD for certain games, which is the other big deal for me, the HR10 will not (MPEG4 stream).

devildog
01-11-2007, 05:07 PM
OTA is sharper? I don't necessarily think that's true. I thought the OTA picture is clearer on my HDTV than in my HR10 or HR20, but I think the HR10 is a bit clearer. Both can record OTA streams.

The biggest difference for me right now, is the HR20 doesn't have Dual Live Buffers, the HR10 does. But, the HR20 will get FSN-BA in HD for certain games, which is the other big deal for me, the HR10 will not (MPEG4 stream).

You have some good points there.

My OTA on the hr10 is a lot more picky than my Hr20.
The Hr20 OTA tuners Can get more channels and are more
crisper than my Hr10. My Hr10 OTA Locals whould drop
out alot and sometimes freeze.:(

RYSmith315
01-13-2007, 12:25 AM
If you had a chance to install the "Elvis" update, the OTA issues have been corrected for the most part.

Pre-Elvis the signal showed 25-35% if it worked at all. Post-Elvis, I now get 75-95% on all channels.


Elvis went national on the west coast earlier this week but appears to have been halted due to reboot issues. I'm still running Elvis and have not had the reboot but I have seen more non-playable recording than previously.

devildog
01-14-2007, 02:43 AM
Santa's helper was good to me this year. She brought me a HDTV. Now I need a HD-DVR to go with it. And there's the problem.

According to DirecTV's web site, a HR20-700 will cost $199 (including dish and installation). According to a csr, I will get the HDTV package free for 4 months. On the downside it is unhackable, does not run TiVo software, and doesn't record OTA HD YET (they promise it by the end of the year - but didn't specify which year). The csr 'thinks' they are in stock.

The other choice is the HR10-250. They're running $300 or so on eBay. Someone local is selling his for $400; I'm assuming I can beat the price down. I'll also need a new dish, or the 'C' lnb kit, about $15. It records OTA (important), is hackable (nice), and has TiVo software (very nice), but I'm wondering how long it's going to take to get stable software.

Any thoughts on the choices?

PlainBill

Have you decided yet???

:confused:

a-town
01-14-2007, 03:29 AM
One important consideration: UI speed. The improvement from 3.1.1e to 6.2 was very welcome on my SD receivers. How does the speed of the UI on the HR20 compare?


Well, as a former DTiVo 6.2 user that just recently (last Thursday) got the HR-20 to go with my new HDTV (my first) I somewhat disagree with the posts in this thread that say the HR-20's UI speed is faster than the DTiVo 6.2's. While the guide is snappier than the DTiVo, other parts seem slower or about the same.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the HR-20. The integrated OTA tuner is cool, though the first thing I recorded was the Colts/Ravens game and when I came back it wasn't on my recordings list. When I went to the to-do list it showed up as "recording" but it never appeared on my list and I couldn't watch it. I have since read a lot on the DBSTalk forums and if I'm reading it correctly, it sounds like there's a bug with recording shows with extended time (I generally add an hour or so to the non-NFL Sunday Ticket football games). So maybe that's what bit me this time. However, I'm now running the new 119 "Elvis2" software and plan on testing an OTA and satellite recording with an extra 30 minutes on the end of them to make sure they show up. But the way the OTA channels integrate right into the guide data and how you can switch between the them is seamless and much better than I expected it would be.

Oh, why am I using OTA instead of through the satellite? The local CBS station (WISH) here in Indy is not available via satellite, that's why. They are the only one in the Indy area like that, not sure what the issue is. Of course, OTA may end up being better quality, but I can't really tell much of a difference and my OTA antenna is crappy anyway...

My two cents...

Oh, one other cool thing about the HR-20 is the RF remote. I had no clue it had an RF remote/receiver until I was browsing the remote setup menu and saw the option to enable it. Not that I have a need to change channels from another room, but not having to aim over my coffee table is pretty sweet. Too bad my AV receiver is still IR only (for volume control) but hey, it's better than no RF.

PlainBill
01-14-2007, 12:59 PM
Have you decided yet???

:confused:

Yes. :)

PlainBill

alfonzotan
01-15-2007, 01:14 PM
I wouldn't even consider giving up my HR10 until and unless DirecTV adds more HD channels, and I'm talking above and beyond locals. I'm fortunate enough to live 10 miles from a mass of metro transmitters, so I'm already getting all the networks OTA and 5x5. In that situation, why would I switch to an un-hackable (at present, anyway) MP4 box? Gets me nothing right now, and given that there aren't all that many HD "cable" networks to begin with, it's going to take quite an increase in desireable programming to even nudge me towards a change.

devildog
01-15-2007, 06:50 PM
I wouldn't even consider giving up my HR10 until and unless DirecTV adds more HD channels, and I'm talking above and beyond locals. I'm fortunate enough to live 10 miles from a mass of metro transmitters, so I'm already getting all the networks OTA and 5x5. In that situation, why would I switch to an un-hackable (at present, anyway) MP4 box? Gets me nothing right now, and given that there aren't all that many HD "cable" networks to begin with, it's going to take quite an increase in desireable programming to even nudge me towards a change.

Dtv should have a 100 HD Mpeg4 channels by the end of the summer.

I think the HR10 is slowly sinking, This looks like the last year for Mpeg2 HD.

But who knows???:confused:

rbiro
01-15-2007, 07:46 PM
The HR20 doesn't use the phone line for software updates. It's all done by satellite. A phone line would be useful only for caller ID and PPV orders.

Is a phone line required for Guided Setup?
If one does not care about caller-ID and one can order PPV outside of the box, over the web, is there any hard requirement for a phone line?

When I first setup my Series2 DirecTivo, I had to run a landline from my neighbor to do guided setup. Is that required with the HR-20?

stevel
01-15-2007, 08:14 PM
My understanding is that the HR20 does not require a phone line at all.

alfonzotan
01-16-2007, 11:05 AM
Dtv should have a 100 HD Mpeg4 channels by the end of the summer.

I think the HR10 is slowly sinking, This looks like the last year for Mpeg2 HD.

But who knows???:confused:

Okay, but what's on those 100 channels? Not counting the old Voom channels that are locked into Dish, there are maybe a dozen cable networks actually broadcasting in HDTV, and some of those are premiums and/or non-satellite to begin with. If those "100 channels" are all various locals and/or sports subscriptions (I don't have or want any), that does nothing for me--I'm already getting every local broadcast 'net in HD from OTA. What else are they going to add, Cinemax HD?

I certainly don't think the MPEG2 boxes are going to be viable forever, but there just isn't that much HDTV content out there right now, and there isn't much new (at least not that I've heard of) coming on-line in the next year or so.

PlainBill
01-16-2007, 01:50 PM
Okay, but what's on those 100 channels? Not counting the old Voom channels that are locked into Dish, there are maybe a dozen cable networks actually broadcasting in HDTV, and some of those are premiums and/or non-satellite to begin with. If those "100 channels" are all various locals and/or sports subscriptions (I don't have or want any), that does nothing for me--I'm already getting every local broadcast 'net in HD from OTA. What else are they going to add, Cinemax HD?

I certainly don't think the MPEG2 boxes are going to be viable forever, but there just isn't that much HDTV content out there right now, and there isn't much new (at least not that I've heard of) coming on-line in the next year or so.
You ask some interesting questions, but don't seem to be aware the answers are right in front of you.

First of all, I believe the official DirecTV statement is 'We will be launching a pair of satellites this year that give us the capability of up to 70 national HD channels.' As you implied, channel capability does not necessarily translate immeadiately to content. So where will the content come from?

First of all, take a look at the channels already available in HD. IIRC, HBO and Showtime each have one HD channel available. DirecTV has 1 HD PPV channel available, I'm not sure about Dish.

Even if you have no interest in sports, others do, and ESPN is not ignoring that source of revenue. Neither is the NFL, and MLB, NBA, and NASCAR are sure to jump on the bandwagon IF they think they can make money that way.

At this moment, there are several things blocking the addition of HD channels. They can be summarized as viewers, distribution channels, and cost. Both DirecTV and Dish are adding satellites capable of in excess of 50 HD channels; that provides the distribution channels. HDTV receiver sales are increasing as costs drop - and costs are dropping rapidly. Production costs ARE a consideration, but that is not a show-stopper.

Twenty some years ago when we first got cable, they carried only 1 channel of each of the major premium networks (Showtime, HBO, Cinemax, etc.). Now there are over 30 such channels on DirecTV. The 8 HBO channels cost less in 'real' dollars than the single HBO channel did 20 years ago. And note that the production costs for most of their programming is nil - movies are already in HD format.

So what will fill the new channels? I'm no expert, but I expect to see both east and west coast premium HD channels mirroring the SD programming. The half dozen or more free movie channels (AMC, TMC, and FMC, Lifetime, Hallmark, etc) will certainly jump on the opportunity. Of course, the sports channels will be joining in. Expect a HD History channel. And sadly, expect HD shopping channels, and HD 'Christian' channels. (Pat Robertson certainly won't be able to resist pontificating in HD). And if you screw up, we might even be able to watch you on HD Court TV.

PlainBill

alfonzotan
01-16-2007, 03:13 PM
You ask some interesting questions, but don't seem to be aware the answers are right in front of you.

First of all, I believe the official DirecTV statement is 'We will be launching a pair of satellites this year that give us the capability of up to 70 national HD channels.' As you implied, channel capability does not necessarily translate immeadiately to content. So where will the content come from?

First of all, take a look at the channels already available in HD. IIRC, HBO and Showtime each have one HD channel available. DirecTV has 1 HD PPV channel available, I'm not sure about Dish.

Even if you have no interest in sports, others do, and ESPN is not ignoring that source of revenue. Neither is the NFL, and MLB, NBA, and NASCAR are sure to jump on the bandwagon IF they think they can make money that way.

At this moment, there are several things blocking the addition of HD channels. They can be summarized as viewers, distribution channels, and cost. Both DirecTV and Dish are adding satellites capable of in excess of 50 HD channels; that provides the distribution channels. HDTV receiver sales are increasing as costs drop - and costs are dropping rapidly. Production costs ARE a consideration, but that is not a show-stopper.

Twenty some years ago when we first got cable, they carried only 1 channel of each of the major premium networks (Showtime, HBO, Cinemax, etc.). Now there are over 30 such channels on DirecTV. The 8 HBO channels cost less in 'real' dollars than the single HBO channel did 20 years ago. And note that the production costs for most of their programming is nil - movies are already in HD format.

So what will fill the new channels? I'm no expert, but I expect to see both east and west coast premium HD channels mirroring the SD programming. The half dozen or more free movie channels (AMC, TMC, and FMC, Lifetime, Hallmark, etc) will certainly jump on the opportunity. Of course, the sports channels will be joining in. Expect a HD History channel. And sadly, expect HD shopping channels, and HD 'Christian' channels. (Pat Robertson certainly won't be able to resist pontificating in HD). And if you screw up, we might even be able to watch you on HD Court TV.

PlainBill

No doubt all that is correct, but there certainly isn't any rush among the non-premium channels to "go HD" right now. UniversalHD is famously a money-loser, for instance, which is inhibiting NBC Universal from pushing out more HD networks. I'd love to see Sci-Fi HD, HistoryHD, Turner ClassicsHD, etc., but as of now, those aren't even vapor. Not only do they not exist (yet--I'm sure they will at some as-yet unknown point), they haven't even been announced as "coming soon." The extra HD capacity DirecTV is putting in right now is going to go to locals, premiums, and sports subscriptions for the time being. As I said, that's stuff I don't need. As in all things, your own mileage may well vary.

As for the sports channels, I'm fortunate enough to live where I can get all the sports programming I want without buying additional service (mostly college football; I don't have any interest in pro sports or NASCAR, but obviously others do, and fine for them). For those who *do* want the additional sports programming, obviously going to the MP4 box is a more pressing option than it is for me.

I'd love to see DirecTV come out and announce what kind of content is actually going to be available in all that extra capacity, but so far, they haven't said much of anything about it, other than promising lots of locals. That tells me they really don't have much new to offer in the near future--which isn't really their fault. There still just isn't much out there in HD.

devildog
01-16-2007, 07:11 PM
You ask some interesting questions, but don't seem to be aware the answers are right in front of you.

First of all, I believe the official DirecTV statement is 'We will be launching a pair of satellites this year that give us the capability of up to 70 national HD channels.' As you implied, channel capability does not necessarily translate immeadiately to content. So where will the content come from?

First of all, take a look at the channels already available in HD. IIRC, HBO and Showtime each have one HD channel available. DirecTV has 1 HD PPV channel available, I'm not sure about Dish.

Even if you have no interest in sports, others do, and ESPN is not ignoring that source of revenue. Neither is the NFL, and MLB, NBA, and NASCAR are sure to jump on the bandwagon IF they think they can make money that way.

At this moment, there are several things blocking the addition of HD channels. They can be summarized as viewers, distribution channels, and cost. Both DirecTV and Dish are adding satellites capable of in excess of 50 HD channels; that provides the distribution channels. HDTV receiver sales are increasing as costs drop - and costs are dropping rapidly. Production costs ARE a consideration, but that is not a show-stopper.

Twenty some years ago when we first got cable, they carried only 1 channel of each of the major premium networks (Showtime, HBO, Cinemax, etc.). Now there are over 30 such channels on DirecTV. The 8 HBO channels cost less in 'real' dollars than the single HBO channel did 20 years ago. And note that the production costs for most of their programming is nil - movies are already in HD format.

So what will fill the new channels? I'm no expert, but I expect to see both east and west coast premium HD channels mirroring the SD programming. The half dozen or more free movie channels (AMC, TMC, and FMC, Lifetime, Hallmark, etc) will certainly jump on the opportunity. Of course, the sports channels will be joining in. Expect a HD History channel. And sadly, expect HD shopping channels, and HD 'Christian' channels. (Pat Robertson certainly won't be able to resist pontificating in HD). And if you screw up, we might even be able to watch you on HD Court TV.

PlainBill

WELL SAID!!!!:D

devildog
01-16-2007, 07:26 PM
No doubt all that is correct, but there certainly isn't any rush among the non-premium channels to "go HD" right now. UniversalHD is famously a money-loser, for instance, which is inhibiting NBC Universal from pushing out more HD networks. I'd love to see Sci-Fi HD, HistoryHD, Turner ClassicsHD, etc., but as of now, those aren't even vapor. Not only do they not exist (yet--I'm sure they will at some as-yet unknown point), they haven't even been announced as "coming soon." The extra HD capacity DirecTV is putting in right now is going to go to locals, premiums, and sports subscriptions for the time being. As I said, that's stuff I don't need. As in all things, your own mileage may well vary.

As for the sports channels, I'm fortunate enough to live where I can get all the sports programming I want without buying additional service (mostly college football; I don't have any interest in pro sports or NASCAR, but obviously others do, and fine for them). For those who *do* want the additional sports programming, obviously going to the MP4 box is a more pressing option than it is for me.

I'd love to see DirecTV come out and announce what kind of content is actually going to be available in all that extra capacity, but so far, they haven't said much of anything about it, other than promising lots of locals. That tells me they really don't have much new to offer in the near future--which isn't really their fault. There still just isn't much out there in HD.


Do you have a HD-TV?

If so, and if you want HD programming you will have to make a choose.
The HR10 will be a paper weight in the beginning of 2008!!!!!!!(no more mpeg2).
You can get the HR20 now and learn it so when the time comes you will be
ready for mpeg4. The HR10 does not have the resolution like the HR20 does.

If not ,, get a Tivo SD-40...

Also there is no comparing cable with satellite.:rolleyes:

alfonzotan
01-16-2007, 08:32 PM
Do you have a HD-TV?

If so, and if you want HD programming you will have to make a choose.
The HR10 will be a paper weight in the beginning of 2008!!!!!!!(no more mpeg2).
You can get the HR20 now and learn it so when the time comes you will be
ready for mpeg4. The HR10 does not have the resolution like the HR20 does.

If not ,, get a Tivo SD-40...

Also there is no comparing cable with satellite.:rolleyes:

Yep. Had one for about 16 months now.

Thanks for the advice, but I have absolutely no reason to switch to an HR20 anytime soon, for the reasons noted above. Given DirecTV's previous glacial roll-outs, I doubt very seriously that they're going to turn off the vast majority of their installed base (MPEG2) by next January. I could be wrong, but I'll be quite surprised if I am.

Like I said, when the content is there, I'll gladly take another look, but it's pretty likely that the content won't be there anytime soon, and the HR20 hardware ain't worth switching to right now.

I hate cable companies with a passion. Ain't going back there.

vanyel
01-17-2007, 05:02 AM
I've been a DirecTV customer for over 10 years. If they try to force me to use their junk instead of my HDTivo, I'll switch to cable. I'm on the verge of doing it anyhow because of their refusal to let me have reasonable access to my legitimately recorded content.

devildog
01-17-2007, 02:20 PM
I've been a DirecTV customer for over 10 years. If they try to force me to use their junk instead of my HDTivo, I'll switch to cable. I'm on the verge of doing it anyhow because of their refusal to let me have reasonable access to my legitimately recorded content.

Cable is sattilite down graded to wire!!!!!
Now this cable line that goes from the cable company to
your house has breaks (connections) and then you have
the electrical and telephone wires that interfere with the
cable signal..that is a fact.
So if you like a crappy picture, then get cable...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

vanyel
01-17-2007, 02:26 PM
electrical and telephone don't interfere with cable unless something is seriously wrong with your wiring, especially digital cable. and cable doesn't have to worry about a little bit of snow blocking the signal like happened the other day. any tech has vulnerabilities. I switched to satellite because analog cable sucked, but that's obsolete now. Dish hardware/software sucks, DirecTV policies suck. Maybe it's time to give the cable company another chance, that's all I'm saying...

Jamie
01-17-2007, 02:41 PM
Aren't the DirectTV HD channels "HD-Lite" (1920x1080 downsized to 1280x1024)? At least with HD cable you can get a full 1080i signal.

Roger Dylan
01-17-2007, 03:29 PM
Aren't the DirectTV HD channels "HD-Lite" (1920x1080 downsized to 1280x1024)? At least with HD cable you can get a full 1080i signal.In my area, cable digital is generally better than DirecTV and the HiDef is hugely better. But OTA HiDef is still another notch up. The Tivo series 3, with a combination of cable and OTA, is a better choice than DirecTV in terms of quality. I haven't yet had the opportunity to check out FIOS on the Tivo s3, but I suspect that might be the future best bet (for picture quality).

DirecTV has one more shot to stay in the picture, a drastic change of direction with the new ownership. Failing that, the sports advantage is all they have and that will erode. You can see the dark at the end of the tunnel.

devildog
01-17-2007, 07:44 PM
In my area, cable digital is generally better than DirecTV and the HiDef is hugely better. But OTA HiDef is still another notch up. The Tivo series 3, with a combination of cable and OTA, is a better choice than DirecTV in terms of quality. I haven't yet had the opportunity to check out FIOS on the Tivo s3, but I suspect that might be the future best bet (for picture quality).

DirecTV has one more shot to stay in the picture, a drastic change of direction with the new ownership. Failing that, the sports advantage is all they have and that will erode. You can see the dark at the end of the tunnel.

What Dtv reciever are you using, HR10 or HR20 ?
Mpeg2 vs Mpeg4.
If you are using the HR10 to compare Dtv to cable then mybe!!

But the HR20 in Mpeg4 so far is the better choice.
Dtv has the mpeg4 set at 1080 because that is the Hi-standard.

Well we can go on for ever with this topic, Its like comparing
Xbox-360 at 720 with the Sony PS3 at 1080....:)

chrised
01-21-2007, 02:02 AM
Have you decided yet???


Yes. :)

PlainBill


I'd love to hear what your conclusion was...

PlainBill
01-21-2007, 07:26 AM
I'd love to hear what your conclusion was...
I wondered if anybody would EVER ask. Being forced to wait a week takes the fun out of being a smartass.:mad:

After some additional reading, I decided to go with the HR20-700. If you're interested, here's my thought processes.

The HR10-250 is available on eBay for about $250 - 300 plus shipping. These systems are used, and in particular, the hard drives are well on their way to failing. I believe that the majority of people are honest, but when I see someone with a feedback rating of 3 selling an HR10-250 that 'was used for only two months', the confidence just isn't there. In addition, I would have to put up a phase three dish (got one free on Craigslist), and possibly spring for a new access card ($20). I would also be unable to get local HD broadcasts without an OTA antenna.

The HR20-700 lists for $299 + $20 shipping at DirecTV. As an A list customer, I can get it for $199. I can also get 4 months of HD programming free. Yes, other have reported better deals; apparently I lack the persuasive ability, or have an existing commitment, (or nobody likes a smartass). This gives an out of pocket cost of $180. In addition, the install tech will put up a new 5 lnb dish ($80) and replace my 'stacked' 4x8 multiswitches with a 6x16 multiswitch ($180).

The downside is I will be unable to extract recordings from the HR20, (not a big deal), lose MRV (a slightly bigger problem) and, most importantly, lose the TiVo UI.

The upside is I will save money, be able to receive HD locals and the new national HD channels as they become available, get a faster UI, AND enjoy the drama :eek: of testing software updates.

PlainBill

bozo8787
01-21-2007, 07:59 AM
I wondered if anybody would EVER ask. Being forced to wait a week takes the fun out of being a smartass.:mad:

After some additional reading, I decided to go with the HR20-700. If you're interested, here's my thought processes.

The HR20-700 lists for $299 + $20 shipping at DirecTV. As an A list customer, I can get it for $199. I can also get 4 months of HD programming free. Yes, other have reported better deals; apparently I lack the persuasive ability, or have an existing commitment, (or nobody likes a smartass). This gives an out of pocket cost of $180. In addition, the install tech will put up a new 5 lnb dish ($80) and replace my 'stacked' 4x8 multiswitches with a 6x16 multiswitch ($180)PlainBill

Well I know I wondered, but held of on asking. I had a gut feeling you would weight the pros and cons and choose the HR20.

Well, Id love to hear that you at least tried to get it for less than $180.

Being that your an A-list Customer, you don't even have to try too hard.

Just speak politely to them (hold off on any smartass comments, you can come back here for that, jk.)and when they see ur A-List, you will get it for at least $99.

When placing the order make sure you go thru retention. They hand out "Retention Credit" like it's candy, to good customers.

What do u have to loose? Hell, read them that letter I received and posted, say it's from a friend who got it and you just want to see what can be done for you.

Believe me, when you mention that so many peeps got it for $19.95 they are going to 1st counter with $99 deal.

Right now it's ultra easy to get it for $99 if your A-List.

It will take a little effort on your part to get lower than that and/or more than one CSR. Because, those retention CSR reps are all like little Santas and if they are in the giving mood and they like you plus can justify it, the they will make your day. On the other hand catch one at the wrong time of day and you've got Scrooge. Thus: CRS Roulette.

But, I have another hunch that for $99 you'd be alright with and no need for rhetorical convo and prob be done in just one call.

Good luck, and hope many other movers and shakers in this forum join in the HR20 rollercoaster ride.

Narf54321
01-21-2007, 02:31 PM
Sounds like we've got a few rifts, or islands if you will, forming on DDB.


The DTV viewers, moving on to the very usable R20 machine despite being non-Tivo.
Perhaps a dwindling few HR10-250 users clutching their DirecTivo by their side as they claim that they'll never give up their Tivo interface.
The standalone folks, themselves trying to figure out whether to keep their older units working or move on to something like an S3 box.

alfonzotan
01-23-2007, 09:43 AM
Sounds like we've got a few rifts, or islands if you will, forming on DDB.


The DTV viewers, moving on to the very usable R20 machine despite being non-Tivo.
Perhaps a dwindling few HR10-250 users clutching their DirecTivo by their side as they claim that they'll never give up their Tivo interface.
The standalone folks, themselves trying to figure out whether to keep their older units working or move on to something like an S3 box.


I can take or leave the Tivo interface; I frankly never much cared for it in the first place (I was a Replay user long before I got an HR10, and a Replay 5xxx is far superior to any Tivo in interface terms). That's not a big deal one way or the other. It's hackability for extraction that I'm not going to give up.

bozo8787
01-23-2007, 10:02 AM
I can take or leave the Tivo interface; I frankly never much cared for it in the first place (I was a Replay user long before I got an HR10, and a Replay 5xxx is far superior to any Tivo in interface terms). That's not a big deal one way or the other. It's hackability for extraction that I'm not going to give up.
Nicely put! I hear u, but for those with D* and HD, we really only have two choices. Take the HR20 or don't.

Note, I don't mention the HR10 cause one cannot get D* to send a new one, no matter how hard u try. Even, if you are currently leasing one and it breaks down, you will be sent a new HR20.

This is similar to the days of the UTV, when M$ pulled the plug. Great units but the tuners would eventually give way and slowly but surely D* stopped supporting them.

angra
01-23-2007, 06:00 PM
interesting thread with some perspectives I have not seen before.

I am curious about one thing - if/when the hr10-250 finally becomes 100% deprecated/unsupported by DTV, will it become kosher to talk about using them unsubbed for OTA-only on DDB?

I am a DTV customer, subscribed to DVR tier, I am just curious about this particular path longer term.

PlainBill
01-23-2007, 06:16 PM
interesting thread with some perspectives I have not seen before.

I am curious about one thing - if/when the hr10-250 finally becomes 100% deprecated/unsupported by DTV, will it become kosher to talk about using them unsubbed for OTA-only on DDB?

I am a DTV customer, subscribed to DVR tier, I am just curious about this particular path longer term.

IIRC, it's already been discussed, and the conclusion was all you will need is a working access card.

PlainBill

captain_video
01-24-2007, 08:53 AM
You'll also need a datastream from the satellites to provide guide data and also to keep the DVR tier active. If DTV ever shuts down the mpeg2 sats then those of us with any DirecTV-based Tivos will be SOL.

PlainBill
01-24-2007, 12:07 PM
You'll also need a datastream from the satellites to provide guide data
Not necessarily true. The HDTV OTA data stream includes guide information.

and also to keep the DVR tier active.
I believe that was also discussed.

If DTV ever shuts down the mpeg2 sats then those of us with any DirecTV-based Tivos will be SOL.
True. Of course, there is little market for 'do it yourself' tube testers, the iceman no longer commeth, and the coal scuttle is a curiosity.

PlainBill

captain_video
01-24-2007, 02:49 PM
I've not heard anything definitive about where the OTA guide data comes from but I always assumed it came from the sats since it is assimilated into DTV's guide. If what you're saying about the guide data being carried with the OTA signal is true then I must assume that there is some standard in play that allows any device with an ATSC tuner to compile the guide data and display it. I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know what has been discussed up to this point. I only know you need the DVR tier to be active in order to use the DVR functions. You can use the HDTivo as an OTA tuner with no access card inserted and you won't even get a nag message as long as it's tuned to an OTA channel.

stevel
01-24-2007, 09:58 PM
There is no guide data that comes OTA from ATSC other than "what am I showing right now?"

Jamie
01-24-2007, 10:10 PM
There is no guide data that comes OTA from ATSC other than "what am I showing right now?"You sure? My reading of the PSIP standard (tutorial here (http://www.sarnoff.com/products_services/government_solutions/psip_tutorial/index.asp)) is that it is capable of sending guide data out for days to weeks in advance. I'm not sure that stations are broadcast that info though, nor whether any DVR's use the info for scheduling. I know PSIP is a mandatory part of ATSC.

PlainBill
01-25-2007, 02:43 PM
I'm not just pulling this out of the air - but the TV is.;) I hit the Guide button on the TV's remote while tuned to an OTA channel and (rudimentary) guide came up showing what was showing on each channel. By hitting right arrow the schedule for the next 12 hours came up for the selected channel. It's not as detailed as DirecTV's listing, but a heck of a lot better than what I saw with cable.

PlainBill

cheer
01-26-2007, 06:41 PM
I'm not just pulling this out of the air - but the TV is.;) I hit the Guide button on the TV's remote while tuned to an OTA channel and (rudimentary) guide came up showing what was showing on each channel. By hitting right arrow the schedule for the next 12 hours came up for the selected channel. It's not as detailed as DirecTV's listing, but a heck of a lot better than what I saw with cable.

PlainBill

Many HDTVs have the ability to pull guide data from an over-the-air guide provider. Often local PBS stations or some other outlet sends this data. It's not generally in each individual stream, or at least not in a way that TVs understand.

TV Guide actually offers this, and certain Panasonic plasma TVs can pull this data. Link (http://www.tvguideonscreen.com/).

I very much doubt the HR10-250 knows how to get guide data from anywhere but the sat, and I'm guessing that something would have to be done similar to the UK-Tivo/OzTivo/etc. setups that feed guide slices to the boxes that have no where else to get guide data.

vu2vu
01-27-2007, 01:31 AM
My tivo would constantly go into insert valid card mode when I had HME patches applied. I removed HME and now its been solid (knock on wood). When my receiver stopped talking to my card OTA would record just fine but Anything off satellite wouldn't. Guide data would populate and I could watch recorded shows. I didn't try scheduling any recordings, but I have a feeling it will work.

Would be easy to test this, just schedule an OTA recording and slide out your access card and slide in a credit card or something.


You'll also need a datastream from the satellites to provide guide data and also to keep the DVR tier active. If DTV ever shuts down the mpeg2 sats then those of us with any DirecTV-based Tivos will be SOL.

pp9pp9pp@hotmai
01-30-2007, 02:36 AM
[QUOTE=PlainBill;272465]Scott, one detail I omitted; the NFL Sunday Ticket is a 'must have'. That eliminates Dish Network and the local pathetic excuse for a cable system.

Bill, I ordered a HD TiVo from DirecTV. They sent an HR20. It does NOT do a season pass for "Bills and Sports"- you cannot do an actual Season Pass. I returned it and screamed enough so they gave me a bill credit of $400 to go buy a 10-250.

The best you will be able to do is manually schedule next week's game, maybe 2 weeks out of the guide allows.

-Pres

devildog
02-01-2007, 04:41 PM
[QUOTE=PlainBill;272465]Scott, one detail I omitted; the NFL Sunday Ticket is a 'must have'. That eliminates Dish Network and the local pathetic excuse for a cable system.

Bill, I ordered a HD TiVo from DirecTV. They sent an HR20. It does NOT do a season pass for "Bills and Sports"- you cannot do an actual Season Pass. I returned it and screamed enough so they gave me a bill credit of $400 to go buy a 10-250.

The best you will be able to do is manually schedule next week's game, maybe 2 weeks out of the guide allows.

-Pres

It's called series link on the HR20 !!!:cool:

devildog
02-01-2007, 04:44 PM
I am not sure why one would want to use the HR10 just for OTA.
Most HD TV's have the tuners all ready and depending which brand you can get
some guide data.

:confused:

PlainBill
02-02-2007, 12:27 PM
I am not sure why one would want to use the HR10 just for OTA.
Most HD TV's have the tuners all ready and depending which brand you can get
some guide data.

:confused:

HINT: It's a pretty good DVR. Just the ability to pause a live show is handy. Add in the ability to record OTA show, and you've got something pretty handy.

Also, while most HDTVs sold today have tuners, that was more the exception than the rule a few years ago. When the HR10-250 came out, one of my acquaintances was thrilled because it replaced an OTA tuner, a DirecTV HD receiver, and an SA TiVo.

PlainBill

pp9pp9pp@hotmai
02-02-2007, 04:29 PM
[QUOTE=pp9pp9pp@hotmai;274900]

It's called series link on the HR20 !!!:cool:

Series Link is not even close to Season Pass. Series Link will get every "Bills@Patriots" game... of which exactly one game is played in a regular season. It's not smart enough to pick up on "I want all games with Bills in it". I found that out in the first week or so of my few weeks of frustration with the POS HR-20, which rebooted often, recorded shows that played blank video with valid info bar on top, and only allowed delete instead of play on others. But then again, us TiVo people know that!

devildog
02-02-2007, 04:46 PM
[QUOTE=devildog;275035]

Series Link is not even close to Season Pass. Series Link will get every "Bills@Patriots" game... of which exactly one game is played in a regular season. It's not smart enough to pick up on "I want all games with Bills in it". I found that out in the first week or so of my few weeks of frustration with the POS HR-20, which rebooted often, recorded shows that played blank video with valid info bar on top, and only allowed delete instead of play on others. But then again, us TiVo people know that!

WoW!

I do not have any of those problems!;)

devildog
02-02-2007, 04:52 PM
HINT: It's a pretty good DVR. Just the ability to pause a live show is handy. Add in the ability to record OTA show, and you've got something pretty handy.

Also, while most HDTVs sold today have tuners, that was more the exception than the rule a few years ago. When the HR10-250 came out, one of my acquaintances was thrilled because it replaced an OTA tuner, a DirecTV HD receiver, and an SA TiVo.

PlainBill

OK! I see now. I guess if you have a HR10 then that would be a good idea.
(Use it as a VCR and a tuner.)

PlainBill
02-02-2007, 10:37 PM
OK! I see now. I guess if you have a HR10 then that would be a good idea.
(Use it as a VCR and a tuner.)

Yeah, so in a few years when 65" LCD hdtvs are running $400, you can always give the 2003 set and HR10 to someone you don't like very much, like a brother in law. ;)

PlainBill

oakwcj
02-03-2007, 12:02 PM
Series Link is not even close to Season Pass. Series Link will get every "Bills@Patriots" game... of which exactly one game is played in a regular season. It's not smart enough to pick up on "I want all games with Bills in it".

A keyword search for "Bills" under Sports/Football will pick up all the games. The real problem is that the autorecord function -- equivalent to an autorecord wishlist -- is broken, because the "Channels I receive" function is broken. It is imossible to limit the search to the channels you actually get. The search will pick up every damn RSN and pay sports package channel. IIRC, this is also a problem with the R15, and a fix has been promised almost forever.

devildog
02-03-2007, 03:42 PM
Yes!!, There are bugs that have to be worked out on the
HR20. Give it time...;)

The only other choice is Dish ,Comcrap, or Tivo 3,
and they are having more problems then D* dvrs.

So I will stick with the HR20..:D

PlainBill
02-03-2007, 11:16 PM
Well, my installation of an HR20 is progressing. The tech came out, saw where I wanted the dish, and decided "I'm not sure if there is enough room, so I'm not going to try it." After some discussion, he installed the HR20, and promised to come back and put up the new dish when I had a better spot to mount it.

In the meantime, I've been playing with the HR20. Obviously, the 'feel' of the UI is different. But it IS reasonably fast - faster than my HDVR2 under 3.1.1e, and close to the same speed as the HDVR2 running 6.2. Others have noted other shortcomings, I hope these will be resolved.

One big improvement I noticed on the UI, when I bring up my list of recordings, a 'gas gauge' is prominently displayed. How long have we been asking for something like that on TiVos?

PlainBill

RYSmith315
02-04-2007, 03:58 AM
One big improvement I noticed on the UI, when I bring up my list of recordings, a 'gas gauge' is prominently displayed. How long have we been asking for something like that on TiVos?

PlainBill

...caller-id, video playback in a small window on all screen, OTA recording, UPnP media server client(music and photo only at this point), interactive content, etc.... It appears that they are doing the things that TiVo wouldn't.

Not to mention that the good folks at NDS (the guys that are actually producing the HR20) monitor the forums for bugs and suggestions and act on the as quick as possible. This week a beta release was opened up during two small windows on Sunday and Monday. The comments posted after Sunday caused them to fix a few bugs and put out another release on monday. Can't beat that kind of turnaround!

devildog
02-04-2007, 07:32 PM
...caller-id, video playback in a small window on all screen, OTA recording, UPnP media server client(music and photo only at this point), interactive content, etc.... It appears that they are doing the things that TiVo wouldn't.

Not to mention that the good folks at NDS (the guys that are actually producing the HR20) monitor the forums for bugs and suggestions and act on the as quick as possible. This week a beta release was opened up during two small windows on Sunday and Monday. The comments posted after Sunday caused them to fix a few bugs and put out another release on monday. Can't beat that kind of turnaround!

NDS does not program the HR20!!
The software is by D*'s own programmers!!
There are no outsiders involved.

The HR20 is built by Pace(Silver) or Thomson (Black).

ronrico51
02-14-2007, 01:27 AM
So, PlainBill

Are you up and running yet? I am in the same groove as you, and others here, switching to HD. I called D*, negotiated a so-so deal, and they will be coming in 2 weeks to upgrade me to an HR20, saying goodbye to my dsr7000. I have been checking out dbstalk.com since then, and am appalled by what I have been reading over there. Around 50% of people rate the HR20 as C or worse, only 50% give it an A or B. The unit sounds hopelessly buggy, doesn't have dual live buffers, is not as good as Tivo on Seasons Pass, search, etc. There are endless threads on how to work around, or live with the numerous bugs. Lockups and missed recordings seem to be very common. I'm afraid I'll be in divorce court if this doesn't pan out.
Just curious how things are working out for you.

PlainBill
02-14-2007, 07:52 AM
So, PlainBill

Are you up and running yet? I am in the same groove as you, and others here, switching to HD. I called D*, negotiated a so-so deal, and they will be coming in 2 weeks to upgrade me to an HR20, saying goodbye to my dsr7000. I have been checking out dbstalk.com since then, and am appalled by what I have been reading over there. Around 50% of people rate the HR20 as C or worse, only 50% give it an A or B. The unit sounds hopelessly buggy, doesn't have dual live buffers, is not as good as Tivo on Seasons Pass, search, etc. There are endless threads on how to work around, or live with the numerous bugs. Lockups and missed recordings seem to be very common. I'm afraid I'll be in divorce court if this doesn't pan out.
Just curious how things are working out for you.
As far as the HR20 goes, I haven't noticed any serious problems. I haven't noticed it missing any individual recordings. I do have it set up to record only one series - 'Jakers! - the Adventures of Piggly Winks' (It's for my Grandson, honest!) and have not seen any problems. My wife has not complained about it missing anything she wants it to record. I have never had a lockup / reboot, and have not tried to verify the dual buffer problem. The UI is noticeably faster than the DSR7000 was with 3.1.1e, and about as fast as 6.2. Software upgrades are very fast. I would advise taking any reports of firmware problems with a grain of salt. Many people are still bitching about being unable to record OTA channels and a non-functional ethernet port. These are both working with the latest firmware.

I do have a few nits to pick. With two power buttons on the remote, why does one turn off both the TV and the DVR, while the other turns off only the DVR? The choice of front panel indicators seems whimsical (do we really need four leds indicating the output resolution?). The remote layout is taking some getting used to (this is more of a problem for my wife than it is for me - she's farsighted). I would have preferred a TiVo based software and the usual remote, but I learned long ago that I don't always get what I think I deserve. I'm an adult and deal with it.

I am having far more problems with the installation. The installation was scheduled for the Feb 1. At that time the tech installed the DVR, but not the dish or multiswitches. He hooked up the HDMI and composite outputs to the TV, but not the component output. When I determined an alternate mounting point for the dish, I scheduled a second visit for the 4th. That tech brought out the dish, but no multiswitch; he promised to take care of it and come back. He DID hook up the OTA antenna to the HR20 and set up that. He never did come back. One additional problem; I really wanted to get a WB616 multiswitch, however those are unavailable so they are planning on stacking two WB68s.

Someone from the installers QC department called me on the 6th and asked if everything was OK. I explained the problems, she said a supervisor would call me. That hasn't happened yet. I've decided to wait until the 15th, the call DirecTV and put on my p***ed off customer act to get this completed and see what adjustments I can get.

My current analysis: If you have a HR10 and are getting all locals without any problems there is no point in upgrading to an HR20 until the new birds are up and are delivering additional HD programming. If you have just purchased an HD TV, don't screw with trying to buy an HR10, go with the HR20. Don't worry about the 'leased' status - it's semantics. The monthly cost is the same if you own it or if you lease it.

PlainBill

devildog
02-14-2007, 06:41 PM
Bill,

When you get the lnb5 dish (at9) you will see a major improvement on the
signal strength. When I had the lnb3 dish I would get rain fade on a misty day,
Now with the lnb5 dish I do not have any problems yet. (Installed Nov. 2006).
Amazing!!!

I see what you mean about the remote. I use a Harmony remote instead.

Oh! Yah! The blue leds are for ballroom dancing or they can be used for a nite lite.:rolleyes:

cheer
02-15-2007, 02:50 PM
Well, now it's my turn. My son got an inexpensive HDTV for Xmas, so for his birthday I've arranged for the HR20 and 5LNB dish. We will see how it goes -- I'm using him as a guinea pig :).

I really, really would miss extraction. But he doesn't care a whit about that, and he'll probably make me nuts, teasing me with the fact that he will get our local CBS and RSN stations in HD whereas I cannot.

devildog
02-15-2007, 11:15 PM
I really, really would miss extraction.

Directv-to-go will be available sometime this year!

labbie48
02-16-2007, 12:55 AM
For real or is that just an assumption?

oakwcj
02-16-2007, 12:47 PM
I don't miss extraction as much as I thought I would. TyTool DVD's look fine on SD sets, but they look like crap on an HDTV. You can really see how low the resolution is. Once you get used to HD content, it's just about impossible to watch anything on a SD set. For me, anyway. That's why I deactivated my remaining DirecTiVo. I just wasn't using it.

devildog
02-16-2007, 02:13 PM
For real or is that just an assumption?

Yah!! It should be available this year..
I believe sometime early summer.

cheer
02-16-2007, 07:28 PM
Directv-to-go will be available sometime this year!
I know you seem to enjoy being a cheerleader for the HR20, but I don't think anyone believes that DirecTV-to-go will let me get un-DRM-ed full-HD-res videos out of the DVR...

cheer
02-16-2007, 07:30 PM
I don't miss extraction as much as I thought I would. TyTool DVD's look fine on SD sets, but they look like crap on an HDTV. You can really see how low the resolution is. Once you get used to HD content, it's just about impossible to watch anything on a SD set. For me, anyway. That's why I deactivated my remaining DirecTiVo. I just wasn't using it.

Yes, the 480x480 produced by SD channels looks like crap, but the full-HD-res extractions do not, and I've had much success taking HD movies, re-encoding them as Xvid at 1280x720 with IVTC applied, and playing them on my hacked Xbox over the network. In fact, they look magnificent.

devildog
02-16-2007, 08:22 PM
xxx.pvrblog.com/pvr/directv/index.html
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

pp9pp9pp@hotmai
02-16-2007, 09:16 PM
Yes, the 480x480 produced by SD channels looks like crap, but the full-HD-res extractions do not, and I've had much success taking HD movies, re-encoding them as Xvid at 1280x720 with IVTC applied, and playing them on my hacked Xbox over the network. In fact, they look magnificent.

You have my attention... Care to be more specific? Step-by-step?

What's "re-encoding them as Xvid at 1280x720 with IVTC applied" mean? How do you "play... them on my hacked Xbox"? What's the hack? Oh, and are these HD shows archived at all on VD or HDD?

Thanks

lenoxb
02-17-2007, 09:14 PM
xxx.pvrblog.com/pvr/directv/index.html


I removed the xxx from your link and visited that site. It was last updated in 2005. It says that DT-ToGo products would be introduced at January 2006 at CES.

It's been more than a year--where are those products?

alfonzotan
02-19-2007, 09:52 AM
You have my attention... Care to be more specific? Step-by-step?

What's "re-encoding them as Xvid at 1280x720 with IVTC applied" mean? How do you "play... them on my hacked Xbox"? What's the hack? Oh, and are these HD shows archived at all on VD or HDD?

Thanks

This isn't really the right subforum, but I do sort of the same thing. My process is similar to Cheer's. Extract .ty files with Tytool, convert to .mpg with tytompg, edit (if desired) with VideoReDo, then encode to Divx (in my case) with Dr. Divx. I have a Mac Mini (Core Duo) as the playback device. Quicktime and FrontRow work great for files under 4GB, and VLC will play the bigger ones. I archive to a hombrew server.

Cheer has a much more detailed coversion to Xvid, IIRC. Looks too much like work to me... ;-)

cheer
02-19-2007, 03:48 PM
You have my attention... Care to be more specific? Step-by-step?

What's "re-encoding them as Xvid at 1280x720 with IVTC applied" mean? How do you "play... them on my hacked Xbox"? What's the hack? Oh, and are these HD shows archived at all on VD or HDD?
I'll post something on the Extraction subforum; it really doesn't belong here. But in brief I turn them into .AVI files using Xvid encoding. IVTC stands for inverse telecine, which means restoring the original 24 progressive frames/sec in the video and removing the duplicate frames caused by the telecine process. As far as the Xbox stuff, I've softmodded my classic Xbox (see this site (http://www.xbox-scene.org) for information) and installed Xbox Media Center (http://www.xboxmediacenter.com) to make it an all-purpose media player.

The videos sit on a PC in my basement and are played over the network.

cheer
02-19-2007, 03:49 PM
Cheer has a much more detailed coversion to Xvid, IIRC. Looks too much like work to me... ;-)

I have it all command-line-ified except for the editing of commericals and the VirtualDub portion. I'll write it up in the Extraction forum.

devildog
02-20-2007, 02:20 PM
xxx.irecordtv.com/category/directv/

What do you think???:rolleyes:

cheer
02-20-2007, 02:53 PM
xxx.irecordtv.com/category/directv/

What do you think???:rolleyes:

I think it's old news
I think there are almost no details
I think there's no schedule attached
I think I don't like the PlaysForSure limitation
I think it's still nowhere near as useful as HD Tivo extraction
I think I don't understand why you don't post correct URLs

devildog
02-20-2007, 09:24 PM
I think it's old news
I think there are almost no details
I think there's no schedule attached
I think I don't like the PlaysForSure limitation
I think it's still nowhere near as useful as HD Tivo extraction
I think I don't understand why you don't post correct URLs


SORRY I will not post here anymore!!!

cheer
02-20-2007, 10:54 PM
SORRY I will not post here anymore!!!If that's easier than posting correct URLs or, even better, adding something relevant, then catch you later.