Frustrated with tytools and tytompg audio sync problems [Archive] - DealDatabase Forum - Deals, Freebies, and TiVo & DirecTivo Hacking

chewychewytoo

02-17-2007, 11:59 AM

Hi, I have been reading through all of these forums looking for a simple solution, to what seems like a simple problem, and I know others have asked as well, but here goes. Flame me, if you must, but please tell me there is an easier way to get a DVD from a ty file without the audio sync issues, it seems that Tivo ty files have issues :) I am able to get an MPG file or TY file to play back fine on the PC, no sync issues, and no troubles there, Tytools, and/or tytompg give me the same resulst, they are able to take the ty files from Series 2 DirecTivo without any other steps needed, and the resulting file plays back just fine on the PC. I then use Ulead DVD Movie Factory to build the DVD menu (or no menu with same results) and it is able to read the MPG and convert it and burn it to DVD for me, however the resulting DVD has a fixed audio offset. If i split the files either in VSplit mode, or after the fact, each one has a audio offset, is there anyway to get the tytompg tool to use that offset to correct the audio problems when making the mpg? Or can this be done in tytools, it knows the probmlem is there since the vsplit or split files have that offset, how can I take advantage of that to get a good mpg file that my DVD Workshop will work with? I dont want to have to use separate applications to have run every ty file through if I dont have to, but I just want to make sure I have no other choices first. I am still research tytompg as I just tried that this past evening for the first time, hopefully there are some switches I can use in it to get the results I am looking for and can just script it or batch file it.

I do have TMPGENC to some some encoding if needed, outside of the DVD Workshop program, if that will help.

I am using Windows XP, and can run this on a 32 bit or 64 bit platform, and I also have a 32 bit Windows Vista box I can work with if that matters.

I am using a Tytools 10.4 if thats the correct way to describe it and Jdiner's Tyserver TSERVER_Series2_MIPS for my series 2 DirecTivo which has been updated to include the networking features using PTVNet software, and the superpatch to record the video unencrypted.

Let me know if you need any other info regarding what I am trying to accomplish, and I appreciate any and all tips you can provide.

thanks

Cliff (chewychewytoo)

captain_video

02-17-2007, 12:52 PM

I can't speak for DVD MF since I generally use DVD-Lab for authoring my tyDVDs. Ulead programs don't always play nice with Tivo files and they generally require that you patch the first header with DVDPatcher to even get the files to import properly. This used to be the case with older versions of DVD Workshop and DVD MF, but it may have changed since I last used either of them.

My recommendation would be to get yourself a copy of DVD-Lab since it's been extensively tested and proven to work with tympegs. Otherwise, try building the DVD using TyTools itself. You won't get the fancy menus but at least you can be assured that the DVD will work. You may still run into audio synch issues from time to time, but that's just an occupational hazard and usually the result of a corrupt recording. Always make sure you have the audio option selected in the preferences menu to close the audio holes. This has to be selected every time you open TyTools when working with AC-3 audio as the option does not stick after closing TyTools. The best, and sometimes only way, to get around it is to surgically remove the bad portion of video and mux the remaining files back together.

If you mux the files using TyTools then you should see where the problems are occurring so you can use the jump function to skip past the bad segments. There can be a lot of trial and error involved when trying to correct a bad audio synch problem and sometimes there's just no solution other than starting with a new recording.

bcc

02-17-2007, 03:00 PM

If tytompg is producing a .mpg with good audio sync, and your dvd authoring program is then losing audio sync, you need to troubleshoot what is going on with your authoring program. I suspect it's unhappy about the source .mpg somehow, and a pass thru videoredo before authoring would be in order. Ie tytompg->videoredo->authoring program.

chewychewytoo

02-18-2007, 04:10 PM

Hi thanks for replying, I tried running the mpg file through a demo version of videoredo (quick stream fix) not sure it really did anything, it outputed a mpg of about 14 minutes since its a demo version, then I converted that to DVD using DVD Movie Factory, and the same results, out of sync audio. I guess I will have to try the long way of using tytools to make the disk, it just seems that since the files are obviously out of sync based on the split output txt files showing anywhere from -3 to -17 sync issues, some program feature should be able to use that information and make a valid mpg file out of this thing, I guess its too much to ask of the tytools software and the tivo ty files to make this a simple one or two step process, all other video, avi or mpg that I throw at DVD MF I can make a perfect in sync dvd movie with very nice menus in a simple to use GUI. This is obvious an a/v sync issue with the ty files, it would seem we should be able to use some feature of tytools or tytompg to take that info that is there (the sync diff number) and correct this in the mpg, and also since the file plays fine in Windows, regardless of the fact that the sync issue exists (as evidenced by spliting the ty file) then this makes no sense to me. Also I tried using the split files in tmpgenc and it crashed within the first few minutes.

I guess I am asking too much of the tivo and tytools, and will have to manipulate my 15 or 20 ty files through all of these extra steps in order to make them into a working DVD with in sync audio. Any other ideas or suggestions are welcome.

Cliff

bcc

02-18-2007, 04:27 PM

Sounds like you're doing something wrong in the authoring stage and still need to troubleshoot that at lower levels. You may ultimately have to transcode the audio&video to make the mpeg strictly dvd compliant (thus making your authoring program happy) or switch to one of the authoring programs for which others have reported success.

chewychewytoo

02-18-2007, 04:37 PM

Well I dont have any options in DVD MF, it converts the video for you as needed, so you dont have to transcode it outside the app, I guess I have to use some other program to do this, since it does not handle the ty to mpg files apparently, its just that it seems like this would be a simple fix to me, but I am not a programmer, I have used DVD MF exclusively due to its ability to make nice menus easily and its ability to handle avi or mpg video of all sorts (except the tivo files apparently) without having to worry about the format so much it just converts whats not already dvd compliant. I just dont want to have to buy some other application hoping it will work, when I have so much invested in something that does work on all other video I have used it for. I mainly take DV video from my camcorder or VCR or tuners to my ADVC-100 over firewire which DVD MF handles no problem, menu, converts and burns all in one step, not fixing, converting, or transcoding, or splitting needed, I just capture the avi, and run through the wizards in DVD MF and it does the rest. I guess I expected more of that sort of experience with the ty files since they are basicly MPG files from what I have read. But obviously they have issues that DVD MF cant handle during converting. I will try using tytools since its free, if it will let me build a DVD easy enough that will have in sync a/v, I guess it will be better than nothing, so far videoredo did nothing for the process that I could tell, the mpg it outputted was the same as what I put in it, if not less quality video, it seems to have downgraded the res on it, and the audio was still in sync on the PC, but not when I converted it to DVD.

bcc

02-18-2007, 04:52 PM

The state of desktop a/v utilities is not as simple as you imagine. tytompg specifically was never designed to be a 1-click to low-def dvd utility. It's also not in my interest to make a tool that does provide what you're looking for.

You haven't even confirmed whether or not your source audio & video streams are of the same length. Unlike your camera recordings they may differ and lead your authoring program astray. That's just a for example.

chewychewytoo

02-18-2007, 05:14 PM

Sorry, but the audio and video are from a single ty file, actually I have about 20 of these on the tivo currently that I am looking to burn to DVD, and the length is not something I was asked about previously, its an mpg file and the video and audio start and stop at the same time in media player, if I split the files, then other than file the size, I have no way of judging the length of these, I guess I just excpeted the tivo recordings (once I set them to record unencrypted) to a simple converstion to DVD, as far as low def DVD , I am not sure what you mean there, but I am converting these to 720x480 with stereo audio, and have tried it at 3000, 4000, and 8000 VBR without any different results. I thought the tytompg tool was supposed to correct all errors and make an error free mpg file from the ty file, thats what the web site said to me, it does make an mpg file that plays fine on the PC, just does not convert well in DVD MF, so I guess I am out of luck trying to archive ty files using that software. If there is a software out there, that will take a ty file and let me make a simple menu with a background I can select and a thumbnail from the video clips as the buttons, with the audion in sync, I guess thats what I need to buy, I just dont want to spend money on something, I cannot feel confident in without seeing it work first hand.

I guess I am out of luck with these tools, but there does not seem to be much else out there to work with ty files that I have found, is this related to the fact that this is a directivo? or is this the same no matter whether its a stand alone or not. I can transfer these to a stand alone unit I have that has a built in burner, but then I get the limited tivo menus for those disks, and it take a long time to transfer the shows over the network and its not reliable as sometimes it cuts off the end of the shows, thats using Tivo.net which is a sharing program that lets me share the mpgs from my PC to the standalone tivo unit. Its fine to watch one show using that, but to do this for a lot of shows and to try and use the burner there would be a pain and the results are not what I am after. I will follow some of the threads I found regarding useing the tytools to author the dvd, its a lot of hassle since its very time consuming to do this for so many shows I have recorded that I want to save, but it seems my options are limited when it comes to ty files.

dburckh

02-18-2007, 11:10 PM

bcc

02-18-2007, 11:39 PM

Give my tool a shot. I did a quicky convert with DVD MovieFactory and I didn't see any skips. It did reconvert the file though. Don't know if that's a big deal.

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=275977&postcount=99

I'm confused why your java GUI doesn't just hook into tytompg. Then you wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel with support of various TY formats, a/v sync issues, audio holes, timer discontinuities, etc.

bcc

02-18-2007, 11:40 PM

Sorry, but the audio and video are from a single ty file,The TY file is the container format, like avi is, and contains multiple streams, typically 1 video stream and 1 or more audio streams. Those underlying streams may be of different duration.

dburckh

02-19-2007, 01:04 AM

bcc,

Two main reasons. One, I've always been interested in how MPG works. I don't really learn something unless I have a project. This is definately a project. Two, the main application is not the UI. It was more of an after thought. The main reason was to stream from the Tivo to my Link Theater. Can't really do that with tytompg. The primary problem is HD content. With TyTool/tytompg it's a two stage process. Platform independence is a nice to have as well. Finally, it always nice to have a plan B. I was a little freaked when tytool just stopped working and there was nothing else to replace it.

I like having two different angles as well. I attempt to polish up the .ty stream .mpg stubs to standard .mpg. From what I've seen, you demux and remux. Both have their merits.

As for using tytompg as the convert, that is definately an option. I noticed that you dump to stdout if you don't specify the -o. Can you read from stdin? I tried it without the -i and I think I got an error.

Thanks for your interest. I really admire what you did and your work helped me out a lot when I was starting out.

captain_video

02-19-2007, 10:34 AM

Sorry, but the audio and video are from a single ty file,
The audio and video from the same ty file are generally of different lengths. I don't recall the exact rationale behind this but I'm sure it has something to do with the audio holes that crop up all throughout the file. You will probably never see both the audio and video files to be exactly the same length.

If you keep having problems authoring with DVD MF then I think it's time you moved onto an authoring tool that works (I already pointed you to one that does). Most commercial authoring programs choke on mpegs made from ty files and Ulead apps have a history of this unless you do some tweaking to the tympeg first. Look through the extraction forum for some old threads that address this issue. You might be surprised to find the answer there.

chewychewytoo

02-19-2007, 12:23 PM

Thanks for the continued replys with ideas and explanations. I tried to use the tystudio tool BCC, but I am not a linux or unix person, so I am having trouble with the path, I have not been able to copy over the nowshowing, and other files to any path except the /var folder on the tivo, this is the same problem I had with tyserver, it only let me transfer to that folder, or subfolders, the ptvupgrade folder it seems to copy but then disappears from that folder, I am using filezilla to FTP them over in binary format. I was able to manually start dserver.tcl from the bash prompt on telnet, but the other stuff I was not sure how to start them, and since they are not in a default path, I guess they are not being found, when I run the test cmd it says nowshowing not found...

If there is a path entry I can add somewhere, that would be a great help if you could tell me where I would add it and what it would look like.

Captain Video, thanks for you help as well, I am looking into other DVD Authoring programs currently, I was just hoping to not have to buy yet another program for burning DVD's, so I will pursue some other options that are either free, or will "fix" the mpg to allow Ulead software to handle it, although at this point, I am running out of DVD's (just kidding) but I do need to start using my rewritables I guess, thats just slow to burn to those:)

I search extensively throught this site for answers before I posted, and it does seem that ty files pose these issues for others, I just never really found an answer that worked, videoredo was a common answer, but that did not do anything for my mpg's, stream fix outputted another mpg, but it still was out of sync when converting and burning using Ulead. So as you said, I need to use another app to do the authoring, so I am looking into that now, I heard that Vista Premium and Ultimate has a DVD maker included that may work, so I have a copy of that I was going to install on a new machine at work anyway, so that will not cost me anything but time, to try that. Will let you know the results, and I am not giving up on the tytools or tysuite yet, although there are many more steps involved, if I can get it working, I will be fine with that. Worst case scenario is I have to pay for DVD Lab, i am going to see if I can find a trial version to test with on that as well.

Thanks again for the responses,BCC please let me know how I can tweak the path settings for the nowshowing and uberexport files on the tivo as well.

lgkahn

02-19-2007, 01:15 PM

you are not using tytools correctly.. I have had maybe 1 out of 100's I have burned with audio video sync issues..

do this.. pull the .ty or .tmf file off you machine..I usually use .tmf because these are better when you put them back on the box as the xml info is preserved..

I use mfs_ftp to pull off the .tmf files..

1. put the file in your directory and use file/vob mux new format and select the .ty or .tmf file..

while this is running create a new subdirectory where the dvd will reside..
Ie for me this is

j:\tivo-store\whatever

2. now if you want a .bmp picture for the dvd select file/make key file
let it go say 500 meg through the move and abort it.. if you want to edit out commercials you will need the entire key file also..

3. open gop editor and look for an appropriate title frame and select save to bmp... alternatively you use gop editor to edit out commercials..

4. now in tytools select file/create ifo files directories
select your movie and select process..

5. now select the bmp you saved earlier and the new subdirectory you want the dvd in..

also if you are putting multiple movies on the disk you select menu element in the right hand upper corner and select the movie under vob link you would like to tie to this menu element
then put the title in element title.. select the font you want and hit set item

do this for however many movies you are putting on the disk

then select preview to see what it will look like on the menu page... and fix any font wrappings etc. by redooing the menu..

finally hit make ifo to create the dvd

now use whatever burning s/w you have... I use nero and selet make new dvd/video

and simply drag the video_ts directory that tytools created into the one that nero shows and select burn.. and that is it...

captain_video

02-19-2007, 05:37 PM

You need to make the filesystem on the Tivo read/write before transferring any files over to the Tivo. The filesystem is read only by default, which is why your files aren't sticking. The /var partition is read/write but it also gets wiped at a moment's notice, resulting in the loss of any files you place there. Look through the newbie guides for help with basic Linux commands.

chewychewytoo

02-19-2007, 09:46 PM

Cool thanks Captain, I appreciate it. So far all I have in the var is tyserver, and its working without being deleted after several reboots, but I will keep an eye on that and peruse the forums for some of those commands...

I did get a DVD to work in Ulead by using a free program I found and downloaded called Videora Converter for Tivo, they had an option on their site to use for ffmpeg switch -async 1 and using that I was able to transcode a 40~ minute episode (this was an mpg from tytools which I edited uot all the commercials from a one hour show) It transcoded in about 20 minutes to a 720x480 mpg and I made it into a DVD which played with the audio in sync. I am off to try this for real with several episodes, thanks again for all the help!

bcc

02-20-2007, 02:37 AM

Would like to clarify some things...
bcc,

Two main reasons. One, I've always been interested in how MPG works. I don't really learn something unless I have a project. This is definitely a project. Two, the main application is not the UI. It was more of an after thought. The main reason was to stream from the Tivo to my Link Theater. Can't really do that with tytompg.tytompg and hdemux do allow for streaming - both on the input and the output side.
hdemux, on which tytompg is based, was written to be quite portable. compiles under windows (native & cygwin), linux, osx, etc.
The primary problem is HD content. Yes, I don't think streaming HD from a s2 tivo is a good idea. I've only seen a max peak throughput of 13mbit/sec. from the airlink gig-e card (with jumbo frames). This is not enough bandwidth for some 1080i OTA broadcasts. Sustained throughput with the hr10-250 is worse.

I was a little freaked when tytool just stopped working and there was nothing else to replace it.Actually, with hdemux I've been supporting HD extraction since before tytool ever did.
I attempt to polish up the .ty stream .mpg stubs to standard .mpg. From what I've seen, you demux and remux. Both have their merits.To make mpeg2 compliant output from series 2 TY, you have to do a good portion of what multiplexers do. You can call it something else if you wish but that doesn't change the requirements. tytompg combines the demux&remux into 1 step so that this process is fast and efficient and doesn't introduce loss of a/v sync (no it's not a pipe internally). If you don't behave like a real multiplexer, doing things such as trying to comply to the spec's virtual buffer model, you might be able to make some playable mpeg, but you should run into problems, especially when you try to handle recordings with reception problems. Supporting the last 20% of cases is the hard part. Since I've already done most of that for free, in a low-level toolkit application, I would think the most expedient thing to do would be to try and interoperate.

Luckily none of this is necessary on s3's.
noticed that you dump to stdout if you don't specify the -o. Can you read from stdin? I tried it without the -i and I think I got an error.Nope, just via a named pipe.
I really admire what you did and your work helped me out a lot when I was starting out.Thanks. Glad you're having fun learning.

dburckh

02-20-2007, 03:58 AM

bcc,

I can definately stream HD content from my HR10-250. With my USB200Mv2 and Jamies backported drivers, I'm getting 2.4MBps max with 1.8MBps sustained. OTA HD is an issue. I've helped that by creating a BackgroundConverterProcess that writes to a shared file. If things start to get rocky, I just hit pause and wait for the converter to catch up. That also always me to FFWD (kind of). The biggest problem I have right now is bandwidth on the wireless side. :)

I think our code is a lot closer than I originally thought. I actually re-use 90% of the PES header from the .ty stream. The Series 2 stuff is pretty close to 1:1. Got burned a little bit by Series 1 audio, but that's working now too. I was using the PTS pretty much directly to generate the SCR, but I got burned when it wrapped at 26:xx:xx.xxx. 2.0c now offsets it which makes the clock right on my LinkTheater as a bonus.

I've had pretty good luck converting files with drops. I can even convert some that tytompg has problems with. Of course, mine chokes on plenty of stuff that tytompg handles. :) I posted on another thread with a guy who had a 7+ sec. dropout. I ran out of memory waiting for a video packet. I can fix it easily enough, but I see your point.

I've used namedpipes on Unix, but I don't think it's going to work on Windows without requiring cygwin. Java doesn't have any support for named pipes.

I could write a stub that connects to the main process via a socket or a shared file. Would executing something like this work? "java Stub | tytompg". I could then read the stdout and stream it or whatever. Do you your messages to stdout or stderr?

Any better ideas?

bcc

02-20-2007, 04:11 PM

bcc,

I can definately stream HD content from my HR10-250. With my USB200Mv2 and Jamies backported drivers, I'm getting 2.4MBps max with 1.8MBps sustained. OTA HD is an issue.Yes, not enough bandwidth to adhere to the ATSC standards.

I've helped that by creating a BackgroundConverterProcess that writes to a shared file. If things start to get rocky, I just hit pause and wait for the converter to catch up.Sounds like waiting for commercials to complete :) Permanently offloading the content to a general purpose streaming server would be a better architecture I think.
I could write a stub that connects to the main process via a socket or a shared file. Would executing something like this work?I don't know what you mean by shared file. I'm actually not sure what is considered to be a portable IPC mechanism for windows.
"java Stub | tytompg". I could then read the stdout and stream it or whatever. Do you your messages to stdout or stderr?
Warnings go to stdout, assertions to stderr.
Any better ideas?Windows *does* support named pipes. I should think java must have a way to interface to them, or have reinvented the concept with something else. Just need to know what that is.

dburckh

02-20-2007, 05:13 PM

For DTV HD, I only have to pause a second (literally) and usually not at all. OTA is the issue. I was hoping to be able to sustain 2.2MBps if I could get a hold of one of those Airlink GIGEs with Jumbo Frame support.

Moving the content seems like moving the bubble. In addition, I lose all the niceties of the tivo for content management. I already have media server full of stuff I want to keep. Most of the tivo stuff comes and goes. Content servers don't usually allow you read open files, where I can watch shows as they record. It's all about the real time, baby. :)

Windows does support named pipes, but not to the extent Unix does. Named pipes are transient (I read that) and there is no mkfifo.

I'm not a Windows developer per-se, I'm more of a Java guy. In Java we use some form of sockets for IPC. I will admit that I don't usually dealing with stuff this low of a level. I googled Java and Name Pipes and all the references where Unix based that created a pipe with mkfifo. Not looking real good there.

bcc

02-20-2007, 05:38 PM

For DTV HD, I only have to pause a second (literally) and usually not at all. OTA is the issue. I was hoping to be able to sustain 2.2MBps if I could get a hold of one of those Airlink GIGEs with Jumbo Frame support.Like I said, the airlink gig-e card doesn't get you enough bandwidth for peak 1080i OTA.
Moving the content seems like moving the bubble.It's not moving the problem. Once you get the content off the tivo and into standard mpeg, you've shed the DRM and performance limitations, and there are a lot more standards based tools available. You're no longer stuck in the rarefied world of series 1/2 TY utilities.

cheer

02-20-2007, 06:03 PM

Like I said, the airlink gig-e card doesn't get you enough bandwidth for peak 1080i OTA.
20 megabits/sec ~ 2.5 megabytes/sec. That should be doable with jumbo frames, custom kernel, backport drives, etc...

bcc

02-20-2007, 06:14 PM

20 megabits/sec ~ 2.5 megabytes/sec. That should be doable with jumbo frames, custom kernel, backport drives, etc...With jumbo frames, backport drivers, I get 13mbit/sec PEAK. Sustained throughput is a bit worse. I'm not sure custom kernel is a good requirement for folks who want a 1 click solution :)

Jamie

02-20-2007, 06:24 PM

With jumbo frames, backport drivers, I get 13mbit/sec PEAK. Sustained throughput is a bit worse. I'm not sure custom kernel is a good requirement for folks who want a 1 click solution :)That sounds really slow, though I don't have an hr10-250 for comparison. Here's (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showpost.php?p=275772&postcount=66) one recent report of ~ 50mbps outgoing with netperf on an hr10-250.
I'd swear I'd seen hr10-250 users who reported similar application level extract speeds to what I get on S2SA's (5-6MB/sec of application level extraction speeds), though I can't find them now. Here's (http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?p=269170#post269170) the closest I found, but he was using a usb host-to-host cable.

Thankfully, the integrated NICs in the newer boxes (S2DT and S3) seem to get good performance without a lot of games.

bcc

02-20-2007, 06:31 PM

That sounds really slow, though I don't have an hr10-250 for comparison. Yes, rember the hr10-250 is inexplicably slower than other s2 models. I did send in detailed performance data way back when.Thankfully, the integrated NICs in the newer boxes (S2DT and S3) seem to get good performance without a lot of games.True that. I get more like 30mbit/sec. on the s3, without having to futz with any usb drivers or dongles. My hr10-250s are now unplugged collecting dust. :)

Jamie

02-20-2007, 06:38 PM

Yes, rember the hr10-250 is inexplicably slower than other s2 models.Yes, but other people are getting much better performance than you did on the hr10-250, so I'm not sure it makes sense to encourage folks not to try, if they are so inspired. That's the only point I'm trying to make. The usual caveat that there are no guarantees applies.
True that. I get more like 30mbit/sec. on the s3, without having to futz with any usb drivers or dongles. My hr10-250s are now unplugged collecting dust.
My S3 took a software update (whoops forgot to block it), so it's unhacked now, but the last extract I did when it was hacked was > 6MB/sec using the stock integrated NIC with no special games (stock kernel, live buffering active, etc, etc).

dburckh

02-20-2007, 06:47 PM

cheer

02-20-2007, 06:51 PM

With jumbo frames, backport drivers, I get 13mbit/sec PEAK. Sustained throughput is a bit worse. I'm not sure custom kernel is a good requirement for folks who want a 1 click solution :)

So long as I'm not tuned to a channel w/DD audio, with stock drivers/kernel and a simple FA-120 (no jumbo frames), I get sustained ~12-4 mbit/sec, with peaks over 16mbit. Tune both channels to non-existent and I get sustained 17.5 mbit/peak 20 mbit. (Just upgraded to 6.3c so I'm not running the custom kernel/backport drivers yet.) Still, those aren't as good as what I get out of my SD DTivos...

The HR10-250 does seem to have load issues. Tune one tuner to a station w/DD audio and I drop down below 8 mbit. Tune both, and I am lucky to hit 4 mbit. (Doesn't have to be HD specifically -- OTA 480i w/DD2.0 seems to have the same effect.) I also notice that if I'm recording one or two HD streams and attempting to watch an HD stream that at least once or twice during the show the HR10-250 will not respond to the remote right away.

So I'd guess it would never reliably stream, since you never know what it might get tuned to, but I hafta believe that your 13 mbit number ought to be beatable w/jumbo frames and backport drivers.

cheer

02-20-2007, 06:56 PM

I'm getting 1.8MBps sustained even while watching HD on the Tivo during extraction. I've got the backported drivers without a custom kernel and without the usb tweak.

While I've got big guns online, is there a good thread to figure out how to custom load modules in 6.3. I used to be able to do it in 3.1.5f, but now there's all the Stage_XXXX stuff and I can't find where they are loaded anymore.

Depends what you're trying to do. If you're trying to load usb modules, just replace the existing ones and let them autoload. Or you can insmod them, but if you do you need to do it early enough to make it happen before the Tivo tries. If you create a file called test.conf in the root, it will be executed before any of the rc.* stuff.

Go take a look at the 6.3x hints/tips thread for Alphawolf's init framework, which has a great example of when/where you can load drivers, etc.

Jamie

02-20-2007, 06:58 PM

... is there a good thread to figure out how to custom load modules in 6.3. I used to be able to do it in 3.1.5f, but now there's all the Stage_XXXX stuff and I can't find where they are loaded anymore.In general, it's thought to be better/more fool proof to let the tivo load the modules for you via the usb.map mechanisms. If you really want to load them yourself, I load them early, before launching rc.sysinit. In the newer software versions you need to make sure failOk is set to 1 in one of the StageA rc scripts.

If you're thinking you need to set log2_irq_thresh=4, that's been the default for a long time now, so you don't need to specify it when the module loads.

dburckh

02-20-2007, 07:07 PM

I've got the backported drivers autoloading, but there is a tweak I can do on an insmod (can't remember it, but I can find it again), that I can't on autoload.

I'll check that posting out. Thanks for the help.

I'm envious of you guys and your S3 stuff. I didn't realize what low bitrates DTV used. I think the AVC stuff looks even worse. I sent back my H20. Oh well, 1 year 8 months and counting down. :)

dburckh

02-20-2007, 07:10 PM

In general, it's thought to be better/more fool proof to let the tivo load the modules for you via the usb.map mechanisms. If you really want to load them yourself, I load them early, before launching rc.sysinit. In the newer software versions you need to make sure failOk is set to 1 in one of the StageA rc scripts.

If you're thinking you need to set log2_irq_thresh=4, that's been the default for a long time now, so you don't need to specify it when the module loads.

Ok. Then I don't need to mess with this. Thanks, saved me a bunch of time.

Custom kernal, eh. Hmmm. That sounds like fun. The 1TB drives are coming out soon. Opportunity knocks.

bcc

02-20-2007, 07:19 PM

Yes, but other people are getting much better performance than you did on the hr10-250, so I'm not sure it makes sense to encourage folks not to try, if they are so inspired. That's the only point I'm trying to make. The usual caveat that there are no guarantees applies.
I agree that it's OK for folks to play with direct streaming if they want. I was simply stating my opinion that it's not a great architecture as you can't count on enough performance out of the hr10-250. I know some folks have measured peak performance higher than I have, and there's the whole performance derby thread to show for it. But do folks really want to have a streaming performance derby? Like oh boy my content played back without stalls this time?! :)
My S3 took a software update (whoops forgot to block it), so it's unhacked now, but the last extract I did when it was hacked was > 6MB/sec using the stock integrated NIC with no special games (stock kernel, live buffering active, etc, etc).I just got the update too and managed to run installSw myself OK.
I just did another check: 28mbit/sec extracting to /dev/null with mfs_ftp. I'm happy with that for now.
With my HTPC, I get nearly 900mbit/sec. throughput from the raw network so it's not my gig-e hubs that are the bottleneck.

bcc

02-20-2007, 07:22 PM

I'm envious of you guys and your S3 stuff. I didn't realize what low bitrates DTV used. I think the AVC stuff looks even worse. I sent back my H20. Oh well, 1 year 8 months and counting down. :)While comcast is putting out full 1920x1080i, I still haven't been impressed with the overall bitrate - approx 5GB/hour for premium content. Basically the same as dtv.

dburckh

02-20-2007, 08:15 PM

While comcast is putting out full 1920x1080i, I still haven't been impressed with the overall bitrate - approx 5GB/hour for premium content. Basically the same as dtv.

Ok. I feel a little better. Comcast in my area was broadcasting digital locals in the clear at about 8GB/hr, the same as OTA. Looked really sharp. I AssUMed that they did the same for premium.

Are they also this odd 30fps 1280x1088? My LinkTheater really doesn't like it.

bcc

02-20-2007, 08:37 PM

Ok. I feel a little better. Comcast in my area was broadcasting digital locals in the clear at about 8GB/hr, the same as OTA. Looked really sharp. I AssUMed that they did the same for premium.

Are they also this odd 30fps 1280x1088? My LinkTheater really doesn't like it.It may have that hd-lite resolution sometimes but I've only seen the 1920x1080 in my spot checks thus far.

dburckh

02-20-2007, 08:41 PM

Anywho,

back on topic. I tried this:

type freshgear_cut.ty | C:\internet\tivo\tytompg-0.17\windows-x86\tytompg.exe

and got this:

The process tried to write to a nonexistent pipe.

I didn't know if a "|" would act as a pipe. Guess not. So, can you change tytompg to read from stdin? The next thing would be to create a quiet mode and just use the exit code to determine if an error occurred. That way we could use standard out.

Other thoughts?

captain_video

02-21-2007, 09:31 AM

So when do we get to smoke our Cubans? Seeing as how this thread got seriously hijacked I just thought I'd ask.:p

dburckh

02-21-2007, 11:23 AM

Ok, good point. It was actually the victum of a double hijacking.

bcc

02-21-2007, 05:05 PM

Yes, lets get back to the topic of how existing tools are too complex :)

I'll start a tytompg interoperability development thread if there is interest.
type freshgear_cut.ty | C:\internet\tivo\tytompg-0.17\windows-x86\tytompg.exe

and got this:

The process tried to write to a nonexistent pipe.

I didn't know if a "|" would act as a pipe. Guess not. So, can you change tytompg to read from stdin? The next thing would be to create a quiet mode and just use the exit code to determine if an error occurred. That way we could use standard out.

Other thoughts?Like I said, tytompg can read/write to named pipes. I don't currently have it set to expect input from stdin. However I don't think the | character in a dos window gets you a pipe ala unix shells. Doesn't work in my tests. Lets take it to the development forum.

dburckh

02-23-2007, 02:02 AM

I added the ability to use tytompg to convert in my latest release. Unfortunately, it requires the .ty file to be completely extracted first. This means double the disk space and double the IO.

If you want to fire up a streaming discussion on another thread I'm cool with that, but I'm gone for the next week. :D

lenoxb

02-23-2007, 04:03 AM

However I don't think the | character in a dos window gets you a pipe ala unix shells. Doesn't work in my tests. Lets take it to the development forum.

It has since DOS 2.0, and continues to in Windows. Try this and see:

DIR C:\ /S/B | MORE

VaBeachGuy

07-09-2007, 07:31 AM

Sorry to bring back to life an older thread but I thought I'd add something to the conversation in case it may be of use to someone down the road.

The way I get around the audio sync problem is to use Canopus ProCoder 2 to re-encode the MPG. Works perfectly every time.

You'll have to set it for non-interlaced and set the bitrate to what you need (unless you use CBR or CQ) but those are very simple to do.

Depending on your PC it can be a bit of a time consuming process though, at least for NFL games it was taking my Athlon 3000+ about 4 to 6 hours to transcode 3 and a half hours of video. But my new dual core 6000+ does it in about an hour and a half.

dburckh

07-09-2007, 01:02 PM

The latest beta of TySuiteJ cuts off leading/out-of-sync audio that was causing problems with AviDemux. It may fix sync issues with other products as well.

The bigger problem is that sometimes DTV uses a variable frame rate. They report all of their video as 30000/1001, but they flip between progressive and interlaced so it ends up somewhere between 24 and 30000/1001 fps. Although both TytoMpeg and TySuiteJ deal with it the best we can, the only real way to resolve it is to insert the "missing" frames or reconvert it completely. I think VideoRedo can insert dummy frames and it should be a lot faster that 3-4 hours. Best of luck!

bcc

07-09-2007, 01:28 PM